Bert Craig wrote:

"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message thlink.net...

"Bert Craig" wrote in message
.com...

Mike Coslo wrote in message

t...

The question kind of states it. I suppose that the BW might be wider as
the speed increases.

Mike, I believe the bandwidth actually decreases as the speed increases.


The reason I ask is that on 3580 tonight, we're all sitting there fat,
dumb, and happy, when W1AW starts it's CW broadcast. And it's some 700
kHz wide!!! And now I'd swear it's almost 3kHz wide. That's like SSB!!!

Needless to say, their strong signal was pretty tough on all us 5 and
ten watters. you could get most of a message through, but it took a lt
of the fun out of it.

Bummer, hope it was just a one-time anomaly.


What the heck , over?

- Mike KB3EIA -

73 de Bert
WA2SI

A one time anomaly????? W1AW is a bulletin station. Been there, on or
about for 90 years.

Dan/W4NTI


Geez Dan, I thought it might've been a malfunction at W1AW...hence the
"anomaly" statement.

I was kind of hoping that it was a problem too. I've seen other CW
signals on the waterfall, and they aren't that wide or nasty looking.
Hopefully W1AW has been putting out a better looking signal for most of
thos 90 years! 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

Robert Casey wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:

The question kind of states it. I suppose that the BW might be wider
as the speed increases.


CW code signals are around 100Hz wide, IIRC.



The reason I ask is that on 3580 tonight, we're all sitting there fat,
dumb, and happy, when W1AW starts it's CW broadcast. And it's some 700
kHz wide!!! And now I'd swear it's almost 3kHz wide. That's like SSB!!!


It might seem so if your receiver was in SSB mode. A narrowband signal
will still be
heard throughout the passband of a filter set for a wideband mode.
Also, if you were in CW receive mode instead, the receiver's AGC will
make the
attenuation of that filter's side skirts seem worse. What would be 10dB
down without
AGC will look like only say 3dB if the AGC is enabled. Especially as
you mentioned
(below) that w1aw was a strong signal.

Okay, but would it wreck the other signals as a matter of course? That's
what I worry about.




Needless to say, their strong signal was pretty tough on all us 5 and
ten watters. you could get most of a message through, but it took a lt
of the fun out of it.

Jim Hampton wrote:

Mike,

You're received a number of good answers. As for measuring bandwidth, I've
used exactly two receivers that would be suitable for accurate measurement,
and I couldn't afford either of them. With stability measured in 10 to the
9th power and accuracy at 10 to the 8th, these little babes were well over
$50,000 in the mid 90s. LOL. Oh, and that doesn't include the cost of the
IF spectrum analyser that was connected to one of them, nor any other costs
such as calibrated antennas.

As stated, the rise and fall times of the waveform determine the bandwidth;
often the receiver can deceive you as to what the bandwidth is.

Of course, it is possible there may have been a problem at W1AW.

W1AW trouble would be my guess. The signal didn't "look right", which
is to say it didn't look like the CW signals we've coexisted with on
3580 until now. And the other ops were complaining about it too, and
some were a good deal further from W1AW than I am.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:

Robert Casey wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:

The question kind of states it. I suppose that the BW might be wider
as the speed increases.


CW code signals are around 100Hz wide, IIRC.



The reason I ask is that on 3580 tonight, we're all sitting there fat,
dumb, and happy, when W1AW starts it's CW broadcast. And it's some 700
kHz wide!!! And now I'd swear it's almost 3kHz wide. That's like SSB!!!


It might seem so if your receiver was in SSB mode. A narrowband signal
will still be
heard throughout the passband of a filter set for a wideband mode.
Also, if you were in CW receive mode instead, the receiver's AGC will
make the
attenuation of that filter's side skirts seem worse. What would be 10dB
down without
AGC will look like only say 3dB if the AGC is enabled. Especially as
you mentioned
(below) that w1aw was a strong signal.

Okay, but would it wreck the other signals as a matter of course? That's
what I worry about.

Don't know if anyone has yet quizzed you as to whether you had your
noise blanker activated. That could cause the things you mention.

Dave K8MN

"Phil Kane" wrote


IIRC the accepted standard for measuring occupied bandwidth is -26
dB, which includes 99% of the signal.


For regulatory purposes, I think you're probably correct (or close to
correct --- -30dB sticks in my mind). Path engineering types tend to be
more conservative because we actually have to make the circuit work. Since
bandwidth is a constrained resource, communications planners tend to treat
it like money and "make less do more" --- when you're aiming for BER's of
better than 1 x 10 to minus10, your 1% of remaining energy can pretty badly
farkle up an adjacent path.

73, de Hans, K0HB

"N2EY" wrote

There was an ARRL HQ station before W1AW. What was its callsign?

----- W1MK


There's a second callsign for the ARRL lab. What is/was it?

----- W1INF


More trivia: There is an IARU HQ call sign. What is it? While it may
have a certain familiarity about it, especially the suffix, what is the
significance of the prefix?

73, de Hans, K0HB

Dave Heil wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:

Robert Casey wrote:


Mike Coslo wrote:


The question kind of states it. I suppose that the BW might be wider
as the speed increases.


CW code signals are around 100Hz wide, IIRC.



The reason I ask is that on 3580 tonight, we're all sitting there fat,
dumb, and happy, when W1AW starts it's CW broadcast. And it's some 700
kHz wide!!! And now I'd swear it's almost 3kHz wide. That's like SSB!!!


It might seem so if your receiver was in SSB mode. A narrowband signal
will still be
heard throughout the passband of a filter set for a wideband mode.
Also, if you were in CW receive mode instead, the receiver's AGC will
make the
attenuation of that filter's side skirts seem worse. What would be 10dB
down without
AGC will look like only say 3dB if the AGC is enabled. Especially as
you mentioned
(below) that w1aw was a strong signal.

Okay, but would it wreck the other signals as a matter of course? That's
what I worry about.


Don't know if anyone has yet quizzed you as to whether you had your
noise blanker activated. That could cause the things you mention.

Nope, Just checked, and it is off. Not going to be much PSK on 3580
tonight. Must be an RTTY contest going on. Never saw so many RTTY
signals at one time!

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Phil Kane" wrote in message
et...
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 20:21:22 GMT, KØHB wrote:

Effective bandwidth is an actual on-the-air measurement of the width of
the
signal at some designated level, most commonly -60dB referenced to the
peak.

IIRC the accepted standard for measuring occupied bandwidth is -26
dB, which includes 99% of the signal.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

That's the ANSI standard spec ... however it's not universally used.

Carl - wk3c

"KØHB" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"N2EY" wrote

There was an ARRL HQ station before W1AW. What was its callsign?

----- W1MK


There's a second callsign for the ARRL lab. What is/was it?

----- W1INF


More trivia: There is an IARU HQ call sign. What is it? While it may
have a certain familiarity about it, especially the suffix, what is the
significance of the prefix?

73, de Hans, K0HB

4U1ITU is the station of the International Amateur Radio Club at ITU
HQ in Geneva ... I've operated the station. The significance of the
prefix is that 4U's are UN callsigns.

73,
Carl - wk3c

"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote

4U1ITU is the station of the International Amateur Radio Club at ITU
HQ in Geneva ... I've operated the station. The significance of the
prefix is that 4U's are UN callsigns.

I'm not speaking of the ITU but the IARU (not the same thing at all). The
IARU HQ station is not associated with the UN (nor the ITU) so does not have
a "4U" prefix.

73, de Hans, K0HB