(Michael Black) wrote in message . com...

"Dan Mattingly N0FQN" wrote in message ...

The issue is it was not invented today. So, what's your point??? You could
say this statement about any subject. It's too, broad in texture. Narrow
your point or I won't give you a grade.

That's what I find amusing about these threads.

People want to play "what if" but they aren't describing the situation
where ham radio would be invented today. The way I see it, the real
reason they can imagine amateur radio is because it's been around
all these years. Form follows function. The proponents of this
thread can't really explain why amateur radio would arise today,
without the bias of the past, so really they can't define what
would arise if it did.

This thread, Michael, was started by a known newsgroup antagonist
who is not, himself, an Amateur Radio licensee...Not even a Novice
Class. His perception of "radio" is strictly from that of a person
looking to make a buck...nothing else.

He often fancies himself the Knowledge Guru since he's very adept
at cut-and-paste.

His favorite technique is to favor you with his presence, but
then when you dare to disagree with him at any level, you are a
"jack-booted thug", an "elitist", a "Nazi", or any number of other
adjectives that he cares to endear Amateurs with. It's especially
worse if you happen to be an Amateur Extra.

CB is a good example of something coming later. "Radio for
everyone" or something like that. Came about around sixty years
after people started playing with radio out of the laboratory.
They could only offer up a small slice of the spectrum, and that
by taking from amateur radio. And while technology did limit
things, realistically the only model was that of amateur radio,
ie direct between two stations. Now admittedly early proponents
of CB often came from amateur radio, but practically as soon
as the service was created, it was referred to in hobby terms.
Not "this is a radio service that you can use to help your hobby"
but a hobby in itself. Look in Popular Electronics from the time,
and you'll see articles by Don Stoner and Tom Kneital to this effect.
(And warnings from the FCC that it ain't a hobby band.) If amateur
radio had not existed, what would CB have been like?

CB's "hobby terms" were created by those who found out that the
FCC's rules against "distance" communications were foolhearty against
Mother Nature. The 11 meter allocation was foolish from the start for
a "low-power, personal, short range" communications service. Amateurs
back then told the FCC that the 11 meter band would enjoy the same
propagation that the 10 meter band did, and low-power/long distance
communications were quite common.

The results were predictable. That the FCC would thrown it's
hands up and NOT police that which it had created was not.

It recently occurred to me that far more people are using radio
for communication than at any point in the past. But instead
of radio, they are seen as telephone technology. Yes, cellphones.
It makes good use of the spectrum, it is something relatively familiar,
and realistically, people are more interested in reliable communication
with those they know.

It is only as reliable as the infrastructure that supports it.
No cell tower, no cellphone. An adept hacker could interrupt the
cellphone net. A well-funded group of terrorists or other malcontents
could create a lot of damage without a single bullet or carbomb.

On one hand, we have people lamenting that amateur radio can't compete
with computers and cellphones today. Yet, then others turn around
and wonder what amateur radio would be like if started today. I can't
really conceive of amateur radio starting today, because I'm not sure what
the purpose would be. And once you start with that premise, free of
knowing that amateur radio has existed all these years, only then can
one begin to imagine what (if anything) would be available to such
a hobby if started today.

Amateur Radio's present allocations exist, for the most part, as
a legacy of Amateur Radio's history, but is sustained today based upon
it's ability to consistently meet the "basis and purpose" of it's
enabling regulations (at least in the United States), part of which is
public service and emergency communications...Again, a point of fact
that the originator of this thread insists on ignoring or trying to
dismiss as "regulatory language" drafted for the sole purpose of
satisfying some bureaucrat's need to be verbose.

I also note that the topic wasn't about "what would the world be
like without amateur radio" but "what would amateur radio be like
if started today". So yes, one can look back and imagine a history
of radio without amateurs, but the two are indeed linked. Take out
that history from amateur radio, and I really don't see it starting
up today.

Take Amateurs out of the history of radio altogether and radio
today would be a different place. Can you imagine a "radio" today
that was solely base upon commercial influence and control?

73

Steve, K4YZ

"Steve Robeson, K4CAP" wrote

|
| This thread, Michael, was started by a known newsgroup antagonist
| who is not, himself, an Amateur Radio licensee...Not even a Novice
| Class. His perception of "radio" is strictly from that of a person
| looking to make a buck...nothing else.
|

Mike Coslo isn't a ham? What's this "KB3EIA" business he puts in his
signature then?

73, de Hans, K0HB

"KØHB" wrote in message hlink.net...
"Steve Robeson, K4CAP" wrote

|
| This thread, Michael, was started by a known newsgroup antagonist
| who is not, himself, an Amateur Radio licensee...Not even a Novice
| Class. His perception of "radio" is strictly from that of a person
| looking to make a buck...nothing else.
|

Mike Coslo isn't a ham? What's this "KB3EIA" business he puts in his
signature then?

You're just a bit too eager to jump into someones Wheaties, Your
One-Upmanship.

That thread was ORIGINATED by Lennie.

Please refer to:

Message 1 in thread
From: Len Over 21 )
Subject: If Ham Radio Were Invented Today (reprise)

For YOUR benefit, Master Chief, I point out the words "MESSAGE 1
IN THREAD" and the "FROM" line.

Now...Next time you find yourself a bit over-anxious to try and
humilate someone with your dazzling self righteousness, I hope you'll
be sure you have your facts right...


Steve, K4YZ

Steve Robeson, K4CAP wrote:
"KØHB" wrote in message hlink.net...

"Steve Robeson, K4CAP" wrote

|
| This thread, Michael, was started by a known newsgroup antagonist
| who is not, himself, an Amateur Radio licensee...Not even a Novice
| Class. His perception of "radio" is strictly from that of a person
| looking to make a buck...nothing else.
|

Mike Coslo isn't a ham? What's this "KB3EIA" business he puts in his
signature then?


You're just a bit too eager to jump into someones Wheaties, Your
One-Upmanship.

That thread was ORIGINATED by Lennie.

Please refer to:


Message 1 in thread
From: Len Over 21 )
Subject: If Ham Radio Were Invented Today (reprise)


For YOUR benefit, Master Chief, I point out the words "MESSAGE 1
IN THREAD" and the "FROM" line.

Now...Next time you find yourself a bit over-anxious to try and
humilate someone with your dazzling self righteousness, I hope you'll
be sure you have your facts right...


Ahh, the confusion lies in that I originated the thread, and then
Lenover21 - for reasons unknown - perhaps not to taint himself with
replying to a thread I started, then started a new thread that was
titled the same, save for the "reprise".

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote in message ...

Now...Next time you find yourself a bit over-anxious to try and
humilate someone with your dazzling self righteousness, I hope you'll
be sure you have your facts right...


Ahh, the confusion lies in that I originated the thread, and then
Lenover21 - for reasons unknown - perhaps not to taint himself with
replying to a thread I started, then started a new thread that was
titled the same, save for the "reprise".

Therein lies some of the reason for confusion...I shudda known
Lennie would have somehting to do with it...But that STILL doesn't
excuse Hans' sniping since the thread group he was quoting from WAS
the one His Putziness had generated...As were the comments I was
refering to...If I had slipped up like that, the Master Chief and
His Most Putziness would have had a Field Day (with apologies to the
ARRL...)

BTW, Mike, you snowed in? My YL is absolutely livid that we
AREN'T getting any of the snow...I grew up in it so I HAVE had my
fill!

73

Steve, K4YZ

Steve Robeson, K4CAP wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote in message ...


Now...Next time you find yourself a bit over-anxious to try and
humilate someone with your dazzling self righteousness, I hope you'll
be sure you have your facts right...


Ahh, the confusion lies in that I originated the thread, and then
Lenover21 - for reasons unknown - perhaps not to taint himself with
replying to a thread I started, then started a new thread that was
titled the same, save for the "reprise".


Therein lies some of the reason for confusion...I shudda known
Lennie would have somehting to do with it...But that STILL doesn't
excuse Hans' sniping since the thread group he was quoting from WAS
the one His Putziness had generated...As were the comments I was
refering to...If I had slipped up like that, the Master Chief and
His Most Putziness would have had a Field Day (with apologies to the
ARRL...)

Agreed. I've noticed that Hans seems to get a nasty case of cabin fever
around this time of year, and becomes a hammer in search of nails. It's
his only tool, and *everything* looks like a nail.



BTW, Mike, you snowed in? My YL is absolutely livid that we
AREN'T getting any of the snow...I grew up in it so I HAVE had my
fill!


We have maybe 8 inches on the ground. Roads are slippery enough that I
keep the Jeep in 4WD full time. It isn't too bad, but it isn't a pretty
kind of snow. Yesterday and today most of the schools in the center of
the state are closed. But they are all wusses! 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article .net, "KØHB"
writes:

"Steve Robeson, K4CAP" wrote

|
| This thread, Michael, was started by a known newsgroup antagonist
| who is not, himself, an Amateur Radio licensee...Not even a Novice
| Class. His perception of "radio" is strictly from that of a person
| looking to make a buck...nothing else.
|

Mike Coslo isn't a ham? What's this "KB3EIA" business he puts in his
signature then?

The gunnery nurse seems to think that his PC is infested with an
A.I. virus that masquerades as all kinds of different communicators.
It's getting so that he can't tell reality from his internal fantasy.

Excuse me, I'm going off to practice my K0HB, Billy Beeper, and
Leo posting. :-)

LHA / WMD

On 27 Jan 2004 17:43:12 GMT, (Len Over 21) wrote:

In article .net, "KØHB"
writes:

"Steve Robeson, K4CAP" wrote

|
| This thread, Michael, was started by a known newsgroup antagonist
| who is not, himself, an Amateur Radio licensee...Not even a Novice
| Class. His perception of "radio" is strictly from that of a person
| looking to make a buck...nothing else.
|

Mike Coslo isn't a ham? What's this "KB3EIA" business he puts in his
signature then?

The gunnery nurse seems to think that his PC is infested with an
A.I. virus that masquerades as all kinds of different communicators.
It's getting so that he can't tell reality from his internal fantasy.

Excuse me, I'm going off to practice my K0HB, Billy Beeper, and
Leo posting. :-)


Hey! No Leo posting! That's my job!

LHA / WMD

73, Leo

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article .net, "KØHB"
writes:

"Steve Robeson, K4CAP" wrote

|
| This thread, Michael, was started by a known newsgroup antagonist
| who is not, himself, an Amateur Radio licensee...Not even a Novice
| Class. His perception of "radio" is strictly from that of a person
| looking to make a buck...nothing else.
|

Mike Coslo isn't a ham? What's this "KB3EIA" business he puts in his
signature then?

The gunnery nurse seems to think that his PC is infested with an
A.I. virus that masquerades as all kinds of different communicators.
It's getting so that he can't tell reality from his internal fantasy.

Excuse me, I'm going off to practice my K0HB, Billy Beeper, and
Leo posting. :-)

LHA / WMD


'Preciate it, Len. I'm kind of busy this week and do need some
relief. If you ever need a break from WMD postings, just holler.

73, bb