In article , Dave Heil
trying to go for the jugular but getting only a juggler writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,
(N2EY)
writes:

To US who were in the big-time radio communications on HF of a half
century ago, that did not involve morse code. There were and still are
a lot of "US" involved in that.

For some of US who've had more recent experience than yours, morse was
involved. For many of us who are actually radio amateurs and who are
participants in big-time radio HF communications today, morse code is
still involved. What are you doing in big-time HF these days?

In big-time HF, not a heckuva lot. There's very little left of the BIG
TIME HF communications efforts of a half century ago.

Armature radio deeecksing is "big time?" Nope. Not a drop in a
bit bucket compared to the communications carriers of not too long
ago. You'd LOVE to think it was "big time" but that is only how it
is written up in QST.

The only radio service still requiring morse code for communications
is amatoor radio. All the other radio services either gave up on it or
never considered it in the first place.

I was IN worldwide communications on HF over a half century ago.
At the time I liked it fine...even felt honored to be able to serve my
country doing just that.

None of that involved morse code.

...and because you didn't use morse, no one used it at the time or since.
A number of us have used morse professionally and as radio amateurs in
the decades after you had your "big-time".

Nope, snarly dave, the Army gave up on morse code for fixed-point
to fixed-point long-distance communications back in 1948, before my
service time. The Navy's long-haul fixed comms were the same way.
Same for the USAF although all the branches maintained some
morse code proficiency requirements and circuits until the early 70s
(rather small efforts). I'm sure Department of State was able to put
some of that obsolete military equipment to good use after it had a
life in active military duty.

Tens of thousands of skilled radio operators worldwide have used
worldwide communications effectively for decades without ever
once having to use or know morse code. They have done so for
over a half century.

Tens of thousands of skilled radio ops worldwide *have* used morse
effectively for worldwide communications after your day in the sun.
Tens of thousands still do so.

Sorry, snarly dave, that's just your Article of Faith. You WANT to
think that is true but it's far in the past and never the numbers you
can prove. The PROOF is seeing what radio circuits use what on
HF...even when HF was a mainstay of communications carriers.

Don't let me stop your rationale invention. Improve the state of the
rationale art, innovate, improvise, adapt...

The U.S. military did not require any morsemanship to use the very
first handheld transceivers (on HF) for communications in 1940. That's
64 years ago. Neither did they require any morsemanship to use the
first backpack radio (on VHF) in 1943. That's 61 years ago.

Yet the military continued to use morse. What's your point?

EVOLUTION, you throwback to failed Darwinism.

Do you need a DayGlo billboard to outline it? WAKE UP.

The state of the art of radio communications long since bypassed
morsemanship skills.

It doesn't take rocket science intellect to use, operate ANY radio.

Morsemanship needs only repetitive Pavlovian training to become
a wetware modem...provided the basic aptitude is present.

NO modern communications carrier uses any morse code. Such
skills went byebye some time ago.

Teletype Corporation didn't make a half million teleprinters during
their corporate existance to copy morse code.


The hundreds of thousands of amateur radio ops work DX, engage in
radiosport, check into nets or engage in public service communications
without touching a PLMRS transceiver.

Wow! Really?!?

No hams work in a business that has a Public Land Mobile Radio
Services radio? No hams work on railroads or in heavy trucking or
vehicle road service trucks? No hams in construction of large
buildings or engaged in HVAC or plumbing maintenance of same?
No hams are policemen or firemen or paramedics? No hams are in
the broadcast industry using remote links controlled through PLMRS
comms?

They are all on HF engaging in "radiosport" and net checking to
advance the state of the art of radio and morsemanship?

Now all that "radiosport" and "net checking" is fun and recreational
and enjoyed by many but it is hardly any sort of technical
advancement or honing skills useful in case of national need.

Your mileage on the newsgroup rageometer will, of course, vary.

Foaming at the mouth is normal, sarly dave, but don't forget to
brush after every meal.

I see. "Broadband" means "broad bandwidth". You could have knocked me
over with a feather when I read your words. So to your way of thinking
on "broadness", a morse communication at 5 wpm on 10 KHz could be
considered "broadband"?

No. I'd say that 5 words per minute on 10 KHz could possibly be
interfering with USN submarine alert frequencies. Those are on VLF.
It's not nice to interfere with boomers or sharks, big daddy dave.
Such wouldn't mean a "Riley" knocking on your door, but some very
serious "attitude" folks carrying heavy artillery.

Now show us some REAL innovations and inventions done by hams
over the last 50 years or so concerning RADIO. Other than Dan
Tayloe that I've already mentioned several times.

Or just continue to make nasty in here on the UnBelievers who
don't worship at the shrine of St. Hiram.

LHA / WMD

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
trying to go for the jugular but getting only a juggler writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,
(N2EY)
writes:

To US who were in the big-time radio communications on HF of a half
century ago, that did not involve morse code. There were and still are
a lot of "US" involved in that.

For some of US who've had more recent experience than yours, morse was
involved. For many of us who are actually radio amateurs and who are
participants in big-time radio HF communications today, morse code is
still involved. What are you doing in big-time HF these days?

In big-time HF, not a heckuva lot. There's very little left of the BIG
TIME HF communications efforts of a half century ago.

There's plenty of BIG-TIME HF communications, Leonard. You simply
aren't involved in it any more than you are amateur radio and it didn't
happen fifty years ago.

Armature radio deeecksing is "big time?" Nope. Not a drop in a
bit bucket compared to the communications carriers of not too long
ago. You'd LOVE to think it was "big time" but that is only how it
is written up in QST.

Sure, Leonard. Compared with what is available to you, it is plenty
big-time, especially if done right--big towers, big antennas, all the
power the law allows. I don't have to read about it, I'm able to
participate.

The only radio service still requiring morse code for communications
is amatoor radio. All the other radio services either gave up on it or
never considered it in the first place.

I really don't care. Morse is alive and well in amateur radio. I don't
use it as my sole operating mode anyway.

I was IN worldwide communications on HF over a half century ago.
At the time I liked it fine...even felt honored to be able to serve my
country doing just that.

None of that involved morse code.

...and because you didn't use morse, no one used it at the time or since.
A number of us have used morse professionally and as radio amateurs in
the decades after you had your "big-time".

Nope, snarly dave, the Army gave up on morse code for fixed-point
to fixed-point long-distance communications back in 1948, before my
service time. The Navy's long-haul fixed comms were the same way.

I think you must have your facts in disarray.

Same for the USAF although all the branches maintained some
morse code proficiency requirements and circuits until the early 70s
(rather small efforts).

The Air Force never used much two way CW.

I'm sure Department of State was able to put
some of that obsolete military equipment to good use after it had a
life in active military duty.

I never used any surplus military gear at all, Lumpy. It was commercial
gear all the way.

Tens of thousands of skilled radio operators worldwide have used
worldwide communications effectively for decades without ever
once having to use or know morse code. They have done so for
over a half century.

Tens of thousands of skilled radio ops worldwide *have* used morse
effectively for worldwide communications after your day in the sun.
Tens of thousands still do so.

Sorry, snarly dave, that's just your Article of Faith. You WANT to
think that is true but it's far in the past and never the numbers you
can prove.

That isn't correct at all, Leonard. My statement is pure fact and I
have the log books to back it up. There are plenty of other sources
including logs in existence.

The PROOF is seeing what radio circuits use what on
HF...even when HF was a mainstay of communications carriers.

PROOF exists in my logs and the logs of countless others. Would you
like some hundreds of thousands of QSOs to peruse?

Don't let me stop your rationale invention. Improve the state of the
rationale art, innovate, improvise, adapt...

The U.S. military did not require any morsemanship to use the very
first handheld transceivers (on HF) for communications in 1940. That's
64 years ago. Neither did they require any morsemanship to use the
first backpack radio (on VHF) in 1943. That's 61 years ago.

Yet the military continued to use morse. What's your point?

EVOLUTION, you throwback to failed Darwinism.

Do you need a DayGlo billboard to outline it? WAKE UP.

Okay, the military continued to use morse long after the introduction of
the equipement you mentioned. This demonstrates EVOLUTION in what way?

The state of the art of radio communications long since bypassed
morsemanship skills.

It doesn't take rocket science intellect to use, operate ANY radio.

I'd love the opportunity to sit you down in front of my Orion for a few
hours...

Morsemanship needs only repetitive Pavlovian training to become
a wetware modem...provided the basic aptitude is present.

NO modern communications carrier uses any morse code. Such
skills went byebye some time ago.

Teletype Corporation didn't make a half million teleprinters during
their corporate existance to copy morse code.

Vibroplex didn't make all those paddles and bugs to copy Baudot. I
frequently use Baudot though but I don't have equipment manufactured by
Teletype or Kleinschmidt. Radio amateurs still use morse regularly.
What the commercials do worries me not. I'm enjoying amateur radio as
an avocation, not as a business.

Dave K8MN


Dave K8MN

In article , Dave Heil
foams at the mouth and writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil

trying to go for the jugular but getting only a juggler writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,
(N2EY)
writes:

To US who were in the big-time radio communications on HF of a half
century ago, that did not involve morse code. There were and still
are
a lot of "US" involved in that.

For some of US who've had more recent experience than yours, morse was
involved. For many of us who are actually radio amateurs and who are
participants in big-time radio HF communications today, morse code is
still involved. What are you doing in big-time HF these days?

In big-time HF, not a heckuva lot. There's very little left of the BIG
TIME HF communications efforts of a half century ago.

There's plenty of BIG-TIME HF communications, Leonard. You simply
aren't involved in it any more than you are amateur radio and it didn't
happen fifty years ago.

So, you are saying the Army Command and Administrative Network
"didn't exist fifty years ago?" There was no such thing?!?

Mais non. ACAN existed very much, very big, running more traffic
every month through one station than the fabled NTS could ever
"work" in a year.

You weren't there. You couldn't know. But, you pretend you do.

Pretense is what you are. Try a tranquilizer. You won't be as tense.

Armature radio deeecksing is "big time?" Nope. Not a drop in a
bit bucket compared to the communications carriers of not too long
ago. You'd LOVE to think it was "big time" but that is only how it
is written up in QST.

Sure, Leonard. Compared with what is available to you, it is plenty
big-time, especially if done right--big towers, big antennas, all the
power the law allows. I don't have to read about it, I'm able to
participate.

My, my, back to the old puerile comparison of genitalia in radio?

Snarly dave, you don't know squat what "I've got available to me."

All you got left is HOBBY activities.

Long past the "pioneering of HF" period in hamdom.

The only radio service still requiring morse code for communications
is amatoor radio. All the other radio services either gave up on it or
never considered it in the first place.

I really don't care. Morse is alive and well in amateur radio. I don't
use it as my sole operating mode anyway.

So, if you "really don't care," why are you foaming at the mouth so
much, making nasty to all those that don't kiss your asterisk?

Okay, you love and adore morse code.

So, why must everyone ALSO love and adore morse code and keep
the morse code test forever and ever in amateur regulations?

Who really cares WHAT you use, snarly dave?

I was IN worldwide communications on HF over a half century ago.
At the time I liked it fine...even felt honored to be able to serve
my
country doing just that.

None of that involved morse code.

...and because you didn't use morse, no one used it at the time or since.
A number of us have used morse professionally and as radio amateurs in
the decades after you had your "big-time".

Nope, snarly dave, the Army gave up on morse code for fixed-point
to fixed-point long-distance communications back in 1948, before my
service time. The Navy's long-haul fixed comms were the same way.

I think you must have your facts in disarray.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. No. Try swinging YOUR disarray away from some
imaginary time. Your front-to-back ratio is terrible.

Sweetums, I WORKED IN that Big Leagues of military comms in the
Pacific back then and know several who were there at the same time,
including one civilian. It was REAL. All kinds of documentation on
it.

Why do you keep on DENYING it so much?

Are you afraid your imaginary beliefs will be exposed?

Same for the USAF although all the branches maintained some
morse code proficiency requirements and circuits until the early 70s
(rather small efforts).

The Air Force never used much two way CW.

What? You were some comms chief in the USAF "in charge" of
Globecom or something?

I'm sure Department of State was able to put
some of that obsolete military equipment to good use after it had a
life in active military duty.

I never used any surplus military gear at all, Lumpy. It was commercial
gear all the way.

I said Department of State, wonder ham.

I really don't care. State never had any network close to the military's
and still doen't. Access to the DSN now may be argued as being
"part of it" but only you and your kind of morsemen would try to stretch
things that far.

Tens of thousands of skilled radio operators worldwide have used
worldwide communications effectively for decades without ever
once having to use or know morse code. They have done so for
over a half century.

Tens of thousands of skilled radio ops worldwide *have* used morse
effectively for worldwide communications after your day in the sun.
Tens of thousands still do so.

Sorry, snarly dave, that's just your Article of Faith. You WANT to
think that is true but it's far in the past and never the numbers you
can prove.

That isn't correct at all, Leonard. My statement is pure fact and I
have the log books to back it up. There are plenty of other sources
including logs in existence.

You've got "logs" all over, snarly dave.

No one really cares what kind of "P-51 time" you noted in. :-)

[ old aviation joke...snarly dave wouldn't understand ]


The PROOF is seeing what radio circuits use what on
HF...even when HF was a mainstay of communications carriers.

PROOF exists in my logs and the logs of countless others. Would you
like some hundreds of thousands of QSOs to peruse?

Digitize them and send them out if that makes you happy.

Now, how do you authenticate all of those?

Do we take you as supremely "honest?"

As much as anyone takes spammers "honesty."

Don't let me stop your rationale invention. Improve the state of the
rationale art, innovate, improvise, adapt...

The U.S. military did not require any morsemanship to use the very
first handheld transceivers (on HF) for communications in 1940.
That's
64 years ago. Neither did they require any morsemanship to use the
first backpack radio (on VHF) in 1943. That's 61 years ago.

Yet the military continued to use morse. What's your point?

EVOLUTION, you throwback to failed Darwinism.

Do you need a DayGlo billboard to outline it? WAKE UP.

Okay, the military continued to use morse long after the introduction of
the equipement you mentioned. This demonstrates EVOLUTION in what way?

"Equipement?" :-)

The U.S. military does not use any morse code for communications now.
It quit doing so several years ago. Many several years in fact.

No communications carrier service in the USA uses any morse code.
Railroads don't use it. Shipping on land doesn't use it. Businesses
don't use it, even if they are making-selling morse code devices.

Tens of thousands of olde-tyme hammes use morse code. Amateurs.

Are they thinking they are "advancing the state of the radio art" by
doing so? Are they "pioneering the airways" as was done in the 20s
and 30s? Or don't they know any better way to communicate?

The state of the art of radio communications long since bypassed
morsemanship skills.

It doesn't take rocket science intellect to use, operate ANY radio.

I'd love the opportunity to sit you down in front of my Orion for a few
hours...

Oh wow! Snarly dave is going to overwhem me with complicated
knobs and switches and instructions on a box of electronics!

Snarly dave, you important, electronically impotent sot, ALL
electronics and radio systems ARE complicated, complex, and
must be some kind of arcane magic to you. I know because I've
seen the same self-importancy demonstrated before, even once
about a system I helped design and develop. :-)

Yeah, snarly dave, I'll "sit down in front of your orion." If and only
if you sit down in front of any radio system I've used in the last
decade. Can you afford air fare and lodging to Pasadena? I can
show you some of the JPL Deep Space Network...after the Rover
missions, please, they are a bit busy right now. You can't sit down
in the avionics compartments of an F-18 or F-16 but you can get an
idea, maybe a glimmering of what those are about...except you'll
quickly get snowed even with a Have Quick. I can get you into
KNBC and the master control in Burbank; they have tours for that
sort of thing, no problem. You've never "ridden" a modern TV control
board, have you? I can get a Novice license holder to show you how
it all works...Tom won two Emmys for TV direction, different years.

All of that involves RADIO, snarly dave. None of it is amateur. It is
all very professional/commercial. You will get snowed in mentally
worse than the northeast has ever gotten.

But...you ARE TESTED FOR MORSE CODE AND AN EXTRA!

You can afford an expensive radio toy to pursue your "radiosport."
And, of course, tell everyone about and go nyah, nyah, "you ain't
as good as dave!"

If YOU had to test for morse code then everyone else MUST.

It's the law. That law can never be changed, right?


Morsemanship needs only repetitive Pavlovian training to become
a wetware modem...provided the basic aptitude is present.

NO modern communications carrier uses any morse code. Such
skills went byebye some time ago.

Teletype Corporation didn't make a half million teleprinters during
their corporate existance to copy morse code.

Vibroplex didn't make all those paddles and bugs to copy Baudot. I
frequently use Baudot though but I don't have equipment manufactured by
Teletype or Kleinschmidt. Radio amateurs still use morse regularly.
What the commercials do worries me not. I'm enjoying amateur radio as
an avocation, not as a business.

Most of Teletype Corporation's hundreds of thousands of Teletypes
didn't use "Baudot" as in the old 5-level code. They used the 8-level
ASCII. The half-millionth Teletype was on display in gold plating at
many electronics industry trade shows in the 1980s. Too bad you
couldn't have seen one. But, you are an amateur and not in the
business. It would make your Vibroplex just vibrate all over! :-)

You are "enjoying amateur radio" so that you can make like a big
shot (with the O stretched vertically) and snarl at those who don't
care to take any code test...or those who worked in BIG HF comms
before your time...or those who won't kneel down and kiss your
asterisk. Or all of the above.

Nice not talking to you, snarly dave. Have fun "on the bands."
All below 30 MHz, that is, in tiny little bands below 10 meters.

LHA / WMD

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
trying to go for the jugular but getting only a juggler writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,
(N2EY)
writes:

The hundreds of thousands of amateur radio ops work DX, engage in
radiosport, check into nets or engage in public service communications
without touching a PLMRS transceiver.

Wow! Really?!?

No hams work in a business that has a Public Land Mobile Radio
Services radio? No hams work on railroads or in heavy trucking or
vehicle road service trucks? No hams in construction of large
buildings or engaged in HVAC or plumbing maintenance of same?
No hams are policemen or firemen or paramedics? No hams are in
the broadcast industry using remote links controlled through PLMRS
comms?

Oh, I see your confusion. You thought I meant *other than on the ham
bands*!

They are all on HF engaging in "radiosport" and net checking to
advance the state of the art of radio and morsemanship?

Did I write "all" or did you just gather it from the ether?

Now all that "radiosport" and "net checking" is fun and recreational
and enjoyed by many but it is hardly any sort of technical
advancement or honing skills useful in case of national need.

How do you know much about it--by having someone you know tell you of
it? By reading about it on the web? By browsing through the pages of
QST at your local library? Were you under the impression that hams are
mandated to participate in technical advancement? Are there no
operational skills needed by the nation?

Your mileage on the newsgroup rageometer will, of course, vary.

Foaming at the mouth is normal, sarly dave, but don't forget to
brush after every meal.

I see. "Broadband" means "broad bandwidth". You could have knocked me
over with a feather when I read your words. So to your way of thinking
on "broadness", a morse communication at 5 wpm on 10 KHz could be
considered "broadband"?

No. I'd say that 5 words per minute on 10 KHz could possibly be
interfering with USN submarine alert frequencies. Those are on VLF.
It's not nice to interfere with boomers or sharks, big daddy dave.
Such wouldn't mean a "Riley" knocking on your door, but some very
serious "attitude" folks carrying heavy artillery.

I know in which part of the spectrum 10 KHz is located. That you didn't
care to answer the question is noted. We'll just accept your definition
of "broadband" as, well....broadband.

Now show us some REAL innovations and inventions done by hams
over the last 50 years or so concerning RADIO. Other than Dan
Tayloe that I've already mentioned several times.

No radio amateur anywhere has done anything if you haven't known about
it.
It can't have happened. Nothing you have no knowledge of can possibly
have happened. You are the ONLY PROFESSIONAL in radio. *snicker*

Or just continue to make nasty in here on the UnBelievers who
don't worship at the shrine of St. Hiram.

Worship? You aren't even baptised as a licensed ham, Leonard. You have
naught to do with amateur radio. You're among the unwashed.

Several decades of declared interest in amateur radio + over seven years
of windy, condescending posts here + four years of inaction on your
"Extra right out of the box" = Leonard H. Anderson, potential radio
amateur :-)

Dave K8MN

In article , Dave Heil confused in the
east...and north...and south writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil

trying to go for the jugular but getting only a juggler writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,
(N2EY)
writes:

The hundreds of thousands of amateur radio ops work DX, engage in
radiosport, check into nets or engage in public service communications
without touching a PLMRS transceiver.

Wow! Really?!?

No hams work in a business that has a Public Land Mobile Radio
Services radio? No hams work on railroads or in heavy trucking or
vehicle road service trucks? No hams in construction of large
buildings or engaged in HVAC or plumbing maintenance of same?
No hams are policemen or firemen or paramedics? No hams are in
the broadcast industry using remote links controlled through PLMRS
comms?

Oh, I see your confusion. You thought I meant *other than on the ham
bands*!

Who knows what lurks in your four neurons, snarly dave?

[da shadow do?]


They are all on HF engaging in "radiosport" and net checking to
advance the state of the art of radio and morsemanship?

Did I write "all" or did you just gather it from the ether?

No, nitrous oxide.

I have to take an anaesthetic when I go in here to read all this "expert
radio nowledge stuf." One needs to dull the senses down to the
extra level...

Now all that "radiosport" and "net checking" is fun and recreational
and enjoyed by many but it is hardly any sort of technical
advancement or honing skills useful in case of national need.

How do you know much about it--by having someone you know tell you of
it? By reading about it on the web? By browsing through the pages of
QST at your local library? Were you under the impression that hams are
mandated to participate in technical advancement? Are there no
operational skills needed by the nation?

Why are you asking?

You are an Extra. You know Everything because you are Qualified
by a federal agency, complete with pretty little certificate (suitable
for framing)!



I know in which part of the spectrum 10 KHz is located.

Did you download that firmware fact from Ten-Tec too?


No radio amateur anywhere has done anything if you haven't known about it.

Awwww...now you are acting all peevish. Tsk, tsk, tsk.


Worship? You aren't even baptised as a licensed ham, Leonard.

Tsk, tsk, tsk, pope dave the furst become a religious sellout?

The Church doesn't issue ham licenses, snarly dave.

The FDA grades ham.

You have naught to do with amateur radio.

I haven't gotten around to tuning in the naught, snarly dave.

Nothing to listen to in the naught.

You're among the unwashed.

Untrue! I just downloaded an extra shower from Ten-Tec's very firm
ware download section. Was inexpensive economy model but was
complete with 100 gallons of hot water. Soap extra.

Took a long time to download. I would need DSL for the most
expensive model's download. Is that the firm ware download you
got, snarly dave? Come clean, now...



Several decades of declared interest in amateur radio + over seven years
of windy, condescending posts here + four years of inaction on your
"Extra right out of the box" = Leonard H. Anderson, potential radio
amateur :-)

Didn't you forget my claim that I was going to invent anti-gravity?

I'm still working on that one, but something's holding me down...






Now sit down in front of your orion, snarly dave. Amaze yourself.

We are all amazed at you. Of you. On you. Whatever...

LHA / WMD

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil confused in the
east...and north...and south writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil

trying to go for the jugular but getting only a juggler writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,
(N2EY)
writes:

The hundreds of thousands of amateur radio ops work DX, engage in
radiosport, check into nets or engage in public service communications
without touching a PLMRS transceiver.

Wow! Really?!?

No hams work in a business that has a Public Land Mobile Radio
Services radio? No hams work on railroads or in heavy trucking or
vehicle road service trucks? No hams in construction of large
buildings or engaged in HVAC or plumbing maintenance of same?
No hams are policemen or firemen or paramedics? No hams are in
the broadcast industry using remote links controlled through PLMRS
comms?

Oh, I see your confusion. You thought I meant *other than on the ham
bands*!

Who knows what lurks in your four neurons, snarly dave?

[da shadow do?]

N2EY: "Besides, here's a simple, plain fact:

No matter what job, educational level, employer, or
government/military service that a radio amateur has, if said radio
amateur opposes Mr. Anderson's views, he/she will be the target of Mr.
Anderson's insults, ridicule, name-calling, factual errors, ethnic
slurs, excessive emoticons and general infantile behavior."

They are all on HF engaging in "radiosport" and net checking to
advance the state of the art of radio and morsemanship?

Did I write "all" or did you just gather it from the ether?

No, nitrous oxide.

In your case, nitrous obnoxide.

I have to take an anaesthetic when I go in here to read all this "expert
radio nowledge stuf." One needs to dull the senses down to the
extra level...

Just more civil debate on the elimination of morse testing, Leonid?

Now all that "radiosport" and "net checking" is fun and recreational
and enjoyed by many but it is hardly any sort of technical
advancement or honing skills useful in case of national need.

How do you know much about it--by having someone you know tell you of
it? By reading about it on the web? By browsing through the pages of
QST at your local library? Were you under the impression that hams are
mandated to participate in technical advancement? Are there no
operational skills needed by the nation?

Why are you asking?

In the expectation of receiving a straight answer. How do you know that
radiosport and public service work in amateur radio are fun? Who told
you?

You are an Extra. You know Everything because you are Qualified
by a federal agency, complete with pretty little certificate (suitable
for framing)!

You're right about one part: I am an Amateur Extra, but I now about what
hams do because I am a part of it, an active participant. I don't get
my knowledge of amateur radio on a second-hand basis.

I know in which part of the spectrum 10 KHz is located.

Did you download that firmware fact from Ten-Tec too?

No, Leonard. Ten-Tec has firmware upgrades available. Would you like
the definition of firmware again?

No radio amateur anywhere has done anything if you haven't known about it.

Awwww...now you are acting all peevish. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

Worship? You aren't even baptised as a licensed ham, Leonard.

Tsk, tsk, tsk, pope dave the furst become a religious sellout?

The Church doesn't issue ham licenses, snarly dave.

That's strange. Weren't you the fellow who brought up a particular
church? You seemed to have snipped that portion.

The FDA grades ham.

....leaving you to handle the degrading.

Several decades of declared interest in amateur radio + over seven years
of windy, condescending posts here + four years of inaction on your
"Extra right out of the box" = Leonard H. Anderson, potential radio
amateur :-)

Didn't you forget my claim that I was going to invent anti-gravity?

Haven't heard of that one. Don't worry too much though. It can't make
you look any more foolish than your "Extra right out of the box" claim.

I'm still working on that one, but something's holding me down...

That'd seem to be a necessity. Hot air has a tendency to rise.

Now sit down in front of your orion, snarly dave. Amaze yourself.

I do that quite frequently, Leonid.

Dave K8MN

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil confused in the
east...and north...and south writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil

trying to go for the jugular but getting only a juggler writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,

(N2EY)
writes:

The hundreds of thousands of amateur radio ops work DX, engage in
radiosport, check into nets or engage in public service communications
without touching a PLMRS transceiver.

Wow! Really?!?

No hams work in a business that has a Public Land Mobile Radio
Services radio? No hams work on railroads or in heavy trucking or
vehicle road service trucks? No hams in construction of large
buildings or engaged in HVAC or plumbing maintenance of same?
No hams are policemen or firemen or paramedics? No hams are in
the broadcast industry using remote links controlled through PLMRS
comms?

Oh, I see your confusion. You thought I meant *other than on the ham
bands*!

Who knows what lurks in your four neurons, snarly dave?

[da shadow do?]

N2EY: "Besides, here's a simple, plain fact:

No matter what job, educational level, employer, or
government/military service that a radio amateur has, if said radio
amateur opposes Mr. Anderson's views, he/she will be the target of Mr.
Anderson's insults, ridicule, name-calling, factual errors, ethnic
slurs, excessive emoticons and general infantile behavior."

They are all on HF engaging in "radiosport" and net checking to
advance the state of the art of radio and morsemanship?

Did I write "all" or did you just gather it from the ether?

No, nitrous oxide.

In your case, nitrous obnoxide.

I have to take an anaesthetic when I go in here to read all this "expert
radio nowledge stuf." One needs to dull the senses down to the
extra level...

Just more civil debate on the elimination of morse testing, Leonid?

Now all that "radiosport" and "net checking" is fun and recreational
and enjoyed by many but it is hardly any sort of technical
advancement or honing skills useful in case of national need.

How do you know much about it--by having someone you know tell you of
it? By reading about it on the web? By browsing through the pages of
QST at your local library? Were you under the impression that hams are
mandated to participate in technical advancement? Are there no
operational skills needed by the nation?

Why are you asking?

In the expectation of receiving a straight answer. How do you know that
radiosport and public service work in amateur radio are fun? Who told
you?

You are an Extra. You know Everything because you are Qualified
by a federal agency, complete with pretty little certificate (suitable
for framing)!

You're right about one part: I am an Amateur Extra, but I now about what
hams do because I am a part of it, an active participant. I don't get
my knowledge of amateur radio on a second-hand basis.

I know in which part of the spectrum 10 KHz is located.

Did you download that firmware fact from Ten-Tec too?

No, Leonard. Ten-Tec has firmware upgrades available. Would you like
the definition of firmware again?

No radio amateur anywhere has done anything if you haven't known about it.

Awwww...now you are acting all peevish. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

Worship? You aren't even baptised as a licensed ham, Leonard.

Tsk, tsk, tsk, pope dave the furst become a religious sellout?

The Church doesn't issue ham licenses, snarly dave.

That's strange. Weren't you the fellow who brought up a particular
church? You seemed to have snipped that portion.

The FDA grades ham.

...leaving you to handle the degrading.

I only degrade the biodegradeable amateurs in here.

You know, the Few, the Overly-Proud, the (white) Men of the
Amateur Copse waving in the breeze of their own unoriginality
bravely holding to the standards and practices of 1930s
amateurisms but bragging they are state of the art by buying
the latest radio toy designed by someone else and built by
someone else and thinking they are potential Nobel laureates
for doing so.

You biodegradeables get your jollies not by operating them radio
toys so much as acting like you are radio gods in here and
snarling degredations at others who don't have your lofty
opinions. Worse yet, you aren't even original in your perjoratives.

Didn't you forget my claim that I was going to invent anti-gravity?

Haven't heard of that one. Don't worry too much though. It can't make
you look any more foolish than your "Extra right out of the box" claim.

Said that once before. You can find it in Google (you were going to
cut and paste everything I ever wrote before in here...that will be
included).

I'm still working on anti-gravity. Something is holding me down, though.


Now sit down in front of your orion, snarly dave. Amaze yourself.

I do that quite frequently, Leonid.

Herr Robust, you need to get some radio technology EDUCATION.

In the KH2D gentle way of beginning such, here's a basic formula to
memorize: E = I * R where E is voltage, I is current, R is resistance.

Got that? No? Too complex for you? It's very, very basic law.

Fella named Ohm came up with that. Lot's of others accept it...does
not have to be explained by Ten-Tec on their website.

That's just the beginning. We can work on components of radios
later, all the amazing things that happen behind the front panel using
L and C and things called "transistors" and "integrated circuits!"

Isn't that something, though! "Magic" happens when you move knobs
and switches in the correct way. Electrons can do your bidding and
create fields and waves in free space!

Did you know that others have made actual electronic surrogates for
adding machines and calculators? Yes! A long time ago, even before
WW2 in Ohio, courtesy of John Atanasoff (forgive me if I spelled it
wrong, John, you are not a Hun). I even have one on my watch! That
watch has no moving parts and tells time very accurately.

Well, here's the most amazing magic of all: Others have found ways
to combine those electronic calculators and "magical" radios. Those
are called "SDR" or Software Defined Radios!" Memorize the word
"software" in that acronym. Learn the difference soft versus firm.

Yes, it's true! In the office here is a "radio clock," no moving parts,
battery powered, that tunes itself in to WWVB after midnight, corrects
itself if necessary according to NIST's prime time standard, gives the
date, day, compensates for leap years, even the "leap second" and
(additionally) tells the office temperature! Sunnavagun. All that and
the display doesn't have to glow!

That one is big, easy to read from anywhere in the room, have had it
for a year. There's a smaller one in the other room, had that for three
years, does everything except for the room temperature. Each one
cost less than $30. No moving parts. No controls need be touched
to be accurate to within one second every day. No license needed,
no morse code required to have one or use one!

A little microcontroller inside each radio clock is the heart; a quartz
crystal is the heartbeat and NIST's atomic standard of time and
Boulder Colorado transmitter is the pacemaker. You know how to
program a microcontroller, snarly dave? I do. We can work on your
learning basic computerstuff later...first you have to master radio
technology (a snap since you've passed your 20 WPM morse test).

Later, much much later, you can approach basic programming and
its application to SDRs of the future. Note: There's a little micro-
controller at the heart of nearly every over-the-counter ham radio
today. Has "magic" in it...but later we will discover that it isn't
any legerdemain, just some digital logic arranged in a logical way
so that imagination and innovation can be used to make that micro-
controller do your bidding!

Just think. The future has promise for you. Not only can you expand
your efforts at trying to make people do your bidding, but you can
make electronics do your bidding also! Another heaven for radio
gods and control freaks!

Now, you just set yourself down in front of your orion (named for the
mythical but mighty hunter) and imagine what you can do in the
future. Once you learn some basics. Lots of basics. Remember
that electrons don't care squat about all your pretty certificates or
years as an amateur anything, cannot be influenced by human
emotions or egos, will only obey THEIR laws, not those of the ARRL.
Excuse me, FCC. Success is yours ahead. Just not at the rate
you are going.

[the offer on the bier is still there...can you take that lying down?]

LHA / WMD

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil confused in the
east...and north...and south writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil

trying to go for the jugular but getting only a juggler writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,

(N2EY)
writes:

The FDA grades ham.

...leaving you to handle the degrading.

I only degrade the biodegradeable amateurs in here.

We're each biodegradable, Leonard.

You know, the Few, the Overly-Proud, the (white) Men of the
Amateur Copse waving in the breeze of their own unoriginality
bravely holding to the standards and practices of 1930s
amateurisms but bragging they are state of the art by buying
the latest radio toy designed by someone else and built by
someone else and thinking they are potential Nobel laureates
for doing so.

A few questions (DEMANDS) of you, Leona:

What constitutes "Overly-Proud" and why is the term capitalized?

Do you consider yourself to be of a racial group other than white?

Do you know of anyone who has indicated that hethinks of himself as a
Nobel laureate because he bought a radio transceiver which is unequalled
in amateur radio equipment?

You biodegradeables get your jollies not by operating them radio
toys so much as acting like you are radio gods in here and
snarling degredations at others who don't have your lofty
opinions. Worse yet, you aren't even original in your perjoratives.

You're biodegradable, Len. Your definition of "radio god" seems to be
"one who is not in agreement with the views of Leonard H. Anderson".
How do you determine from reading lines of typed characters, when
someone is snarling? Are you snarling when you post here? Do you hold
"lofty" opinions? How do you determine when the opinions of others are
"lofty"?

Didn't you forget my claim that I was going to invent anti-gravity?

Haven't heard of that one. Don't worry too much though. It can't make
you look any more foolish than your "Extra right out of the box" claim.

Said that once before. You can find it in Google (you were going to
cut and paste everything I ever wrote before in here...that will be
included).

I never wrote that I intended bringing back all of your material. Most
of it wasn't that good the first time.

I'm still working on anti-gravity. Something is holding me down, though.

So you said earlier. Your purloined lines weren't very funny the first
time.

Now sit down in front of your orion, snarly dave. Amaze yourself.

I do that quite frequently, Leonid.

Herr Robust, you need to get some radio technology EDUCATION.

....and YOU'RE JUST THE GUY to give it to me, I'll bet.

(much of your crap snipped because it was, well, crap)

Success is yours ahead. Just not at the rate
you are going.

Amateur radio success has been mine for over 40 years now. Would you
like to ruminate on your liklihood of joining the fun on the ham bands,
given the rate you are going?

Dave K8MN

In article , Dave Heil robust oberst auf das
sandbox writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil

writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil confused in the
east...and north...and south writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil

trying to go for the jugular but getting only a juggler writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,

(N2EY)
writes:

The FDA grades ham.

...leaving you to handle the degrading.

I only degrade the biodegradeable amateurs in here.

We're each biodegradable, Leonard.

No, I don't think so. You got the formaldehyde before assuming
room temperature.

Dr. Frankenstein would be proud...he created a Ham Monster!

"...it's Alive! It's Alive!...it beeped morse code!"

[from an unpublished Mary Shelley manuscript] :-)


(much of your crap snipped because it was, well, crap)

Right, straight talk from a Newington Charm School dropout.

See 97.1 (e), something about "good will" and "uniqueness."

What next? Shouts of "Drop and give me twenty, maggot?"

The gunnery nurse have a cue-so with you or something?


Amateur radio success has been mine for over 40 years now.

Wonderful.

Any time soon you will be ready to be a true professional. With
another forty years of radio theory study, that is...

Keep up the good work.

Temper fry!

LHA / WMD

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article , Dave Heil
trying to go for the jugular but getting only a juggler writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,
(N2EY)
writes:

To US who were in the big-time radio communications on HF of a half
century ago, that did not involve morse code. There were and still are
a lot of "US" involved in that.

For some of US who've had more recent experience than yours, morse was
involved. For many of us who are actually radio amateurs and who are
participants in big-time radio HF communications today, morse code is
still involved. What are you doing in big-time HF these days?

In big-time HF, not a heckuva lot. There's very little left of the BIG
TIME HF communications efforts of a half century ago.

More evidence that you aren't in touch with reality, Lennie.

Armature radio deeecksing is "big time?" Nope. Not a drop in a
bit bucket compared to the communications carriers of not too long
ago. You'd LOVE to think it was "big time" but that is only how it
is written up in QST.

Lennie, from someone who is constantly trying to discredit
Amateurs as not being in touch with the "radio world outside of CT", I
am absolutely appalled that YOU demonstrate such
ignorance....Well...No I'm not...you've pretty well proven your
ignorance over and over.

The only radio service still requiring morse code for communications
is amatoor radio. All the other radio services either gave up on it or
never considered it in the first place.

Because the APPLICATIONS are different. This is NOT "PLMRS",
Public Service, the Armed Forces, or Citizens Band.

If you continue to fight THIS tide, you'll only die tired, Putzy
One.

I was IN worldwide communications on HF over a half century ago.
At the time I liked it fine...even felt honored to be able to serve my
country doing just that.

None of that involved morse code.

...and because you didn't use morse, no one used it at the time or since.
A number of us have used morse professionally and as radio amateurs in
the decades after you had your "big-time".

Nope, snarly dave, the Army gave up on morse code for fixed-point
to fixed-point long-distance communications back in 1948, before my
service time. The Navy's long-haul fixed comms were the same way.
Same for the USAF although all the branches maintained some
morse code proficiency requirements and circuits until the early 70s
(rather small efforts). I'm sure Department of State was able to put
some of that obsolete military equipment to good use after it had a
life in active military duty.

We have first-hand testimony from participants in this forum who
are/were in a position to know BETTER than you that this was/is false.

Why do you persist in perpetuating a falsehood?

Tens of thousands of skilled radio operators worldwide have used
worldwide communications effectively for decades without ever
once having to use or know morse code. They have done so for
over a half century.

Tens of thousands of skilled radio ops worldwide *have* used morse
effectively for worldwide communications after your day in the sun.
Tens of thousands still do so.

Sorry, snarly dave, that's just your Article of Faith. You WANT to
think that is true but it's far in the past and never the numbers you
can prove. The PROOF is seeing what radio circuits use what on
HF...even when HF was a mainstay of communications carriers.

Nope...no "Article of Faith", Lennie.

Truth. DOCUMENTED truth.

Don't let me stop your rationale invention. Improve the state of the
rationale art, innovate, improvise, adapt...

And don't let us stop your rant even though it's already been
disproven over and over.

The U.S. military did not require any morsemanship to use the very
first handheld transceivers (on HF) for communications in 1940. That's
64 years ago. Neither did they require any morsemanship to use the
first backpack radio (on VHF) in 1943. That's 61 years ago.

Yet the military continued to use morse. What's your point?

EVOLUTION, you throwback to failed Darwinism.

Do you need a DayGlo billboard to outline it? WAKE UP.

The state of the art of radio communications long since bypassed
morsemanship skills.

Obviously not, according to a poll recently conducted by "CQ"
magazine...AND judging by the amount of CW traffic one can hear at any
given moment on teh HF bands, Lennie.

Again, you persist in trying to make an assertion that's EASILY
disproven with simply procured evidence...ie: turning on any receiver
capable of covering the HF band.

It doesn't take rocket science intellect to use, operate ANY radio.

Obviously it does since you seem to be unable (or is it
UNWILLING?) to turn one on and see for yourself that the facts don't
jive with YOUR "jive".

Morsemanship needs only repetitive Pavlovian training to become
a wetware modem...provided the basic aptitude is present.

NO modern communications carrier uses any morse code. Such
skills went byebye some time ago.

"modern communicaitons carrier"...?!?! Not a COMMERCIAL one, but
since this is NOT a forum about any other radio service than the
AMATEUR Radio Service, it's NOT GERMANE.

Teletype Corporation didn't make a half million teleprinters during
their corporate existance to copy morse code.

And your mommy obviously didn't make you capable of being polite,
responsible or truthful, yet the potential exists.

The hundreds of thousands of amateur radio ops work DX, engage in
radiosport, check into nets or engage in public service communications
without touching a PLMRS transceiver.

Wow! Really?!?

No hams work in a business that has a Public Land Mobile Radio
Services radio? No hams work on railroads or in heavy trucking or
vehicle road service trucks? No hams in construction of large
buildings or engaged in HVAC or plumbing maintenance of same?
No hams are policemen or firemen or paramedics? No hams are in
the broadcast industry using remote links controlled through PLMRS
comms?

I am sure that had a purpose, but whatever it was, it didn't make
it to the surface.

They are all on HF engaging in "radiosport" and net checking to
advance the state of the art of radio and morsemanship?

Now all that "radiosport" and "net checking" is fun and recreational
and enjoyed by many but it is hardly any sort of technical
advancement or honing skills useful in case of national need.

Wrong again. Proven over and over, EVEN in the 21st Century.

Your mileage on the newsgroup rageometer will, of course, vary.

No rage needed here. The comments of hundreds of disaster relief
workers, EMA managers, governmental agencies, etc to the contrary
suffice.

Foaming at the mouth is normal, sarly dave, but don't forget to
brush after every meal.

Trying to dodge responsibility for your own errors, either overt
or of ommission, will not change the fact that YOU are wrong,
Lennie...

No matter HOW many times you repeat your untruthful bile in this
forum, hundreds of OTHER media sources prove you wrong, and that just
tickles me to death.

I see. "Broadband" means "broad bandwidth". You could have knocked me
over with a feather when I read your words. So to your way of thinking
on "broadness", a morse communication at 5 wpm on 10 KHz could be
considered "broadband"?

No. I'd say that 5 words per minute on 10 KHz could possibly be
interfering with USN submarine alert frequencies. Those are on VLF.
It's not nice to interfere with boomers or sharks, big daddy dave.
Such wouldn't mean a "Riley" knocking on your door, but some very
serious "attitude" folks carrying heavy artillery.

Now show us some REAL innovations and inventions done by hams
over the last 50 years or so concerning RADIO. Other than Dan
Tayloe that I've already mentioned several times.

Or just continue to make nasty in here on the UnBelievers who
don't worship at the shrine of St. Hiram.

At least he has a shrine. You just have a shriek.

Steve, K4YZ