"Dee D. Flint" wrote in
gy.com:


"Alun" wrote in message
...
I see no benefit in giving over 7125-7150 to phone. 7075-7100, for
example, would be the same size and in a more useful place. Moreover,
it would harmonise Region 2 US hams with US hams outside R2.


This will crowd the CW/digital/data modes too much since there are so
many US hams. It would be better to wait for the other treaty changes
from the conference to take affect and synchronize Regions 1 and 3 with
Region 2. You do know of course that the treaty now requires
broadcasters to move out of 7.1 to 7.2 and that this will become an
exclusive amateur allocation.

Of course I do, but do you think they will really move? Some may, but I
think some of them never will.

I don't recall the timing but it is
required in the treaty. Perhaps someday, the ITU will open up the 7.2
to 7.3 to the other regions. In the meantime, 7.150 to 7.200 could be
a worldwide phone allocation. This is actually more space than either
of the suggested proposals.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


I'm assuming that this will happen anyway. I just meant that 7075-7100,
where of course there is already phone, would be more use to phone ops than
the proposed 7125-7150, where there isn't.

Alan wrote:

(N2EY) wrote in
:



In article , Alun
writes:



(N2EY) wrote in news:c2356669.0401191008.a3c8376
:



http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1

Summary:

3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra


The _only_ merit to that is that testing was free for Novices, so it
would reintroduce a free licence class.


Not part of the proposal as I read it.




As I understand it, the law providing free testing for Novices remains on
the books. Hence, it really does matter what the entry level licence is
called. If it is re-named 'Novice', then the test is free.

No, it's not part of the proposal, and having since read the whole thing on
the ARRL web site, it appears that the league haven't thought about this
particular wrinkle, as they say that the name is still open and it could be
called something else.



The new Novice would replace the existing Technician class as the entry
level exam. It would have less power and fewer VHF/UHF privileges, but
more HF privileges.



Provided the new class that happened to
be called Novice had Tech Plus privileges and they had to pass the
current Element 2 I would have no trouble with that


Why?



I thought the old Novice was too easy



Current Element 2 is very VHF/UHF centric, and so are current Tech Plus
privs. The goal seems to be to strike more of a balance between above
and below 30 MHz privileges.



So change the question pool, but don't dumb it down



5 wpm code test retained for Extra only


Predictably, I do have a problem with that.


Me too. Should be at least 13 and preferably 20 wpm. Sending and
receiving.




Won't happen

Exactly. Nobody else uses code anymore. And what does the FCC
get out of it? And the medical wavier issues come back.... They ain't
gonna do anything to have THAT come up again!




Morse skill testing for voice privileges is illogical and should be
dumped.


It's no more illogical than testing theory in order to be allowed to
use manufactured equipment.




Not in my opinion



Moreover, it can be now,
since it has not been required by the ITU for the last six months.



FCC will most probably just drop it completely.




I think they will too

Again, nobody else uses code anymore. Code made good sense back
50 years ago during the vacuum tube radio era. Simple equipment was
all that was needed and given the reliability of vacuum tube stuff voice
could likely fail when needed. But today's equipment is all made with
chips and quite reliable. And digital modes like packet can handle
automatically
health and welfare traffic code used to do, with less operators needed.




Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra,


OK


Why OK? Why not simply carry the Advanceds as a separate class, as has
been done for the past 3 years and 9 months?



Can't stand loose ends

Let's say that 4 years experience as an advanced is equal to element 4B
(the old extra written an advanced used to be able to take to get his
extra).
So make the advanced turn into an extra next April.




Techs and Tech Pluses get free upgrade to General


Not OK in this scenario, given my comments above



Agreed - but why is it OK for Advanceds to get a free upgrade to Extra,
but not OK for Techs and Tech Pluses to get free upgrade to General?

What is the fundamental difference that makes one freebie OK but not
the other?



As I see it, the new Novice would be a replacement for the Tech, which is
already pretty easy



'Phone image subbands for 80/40/15 widened slightly


Good.


Bad.



Some phone below 7100? No? Why not?


That space is needed for CW and digital modes.



Better to keep those on the Novice freqs and refarm more useful spectrum to
phone

Are the digital modes more tolerant of SW broadcaster QRM than SSB? If so,
move the digital modes to 7150-7300 and voice 7000-7150. If nothing
else, it would help chase the SW broadcasters away...

Robert Casey wrote in
:

Alan wrote:

(N2EY) wrote in
:



In article , Alun
writes:



(N2EY) wrote in news:c2356669.0401191008.a3c8376
:



http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1

Summary:

3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra


The _only_ merit to that is that testing was free for Novices, so it
would reintroduce a free licence class.


Not part of the proposal as I read it.




As I understand it, the law providing free testing for Novices remains
on the books. Hence, it really does matter what the entry level licence
is called. If it is re-named 'Novice', then the test is free.

No, it's not part of the proposal, and having since read the whole
thing on the ARRL web site, it appears that the league haven't thought
about this particular wrinkle, as they say that the name is still open
and it could be called something else.



The new Novice would replace the existing Technician class as the
entry level exam. It would have less power and fewer VHF/UHF
privileges, but more HF privileges.



Provided the new class that happened to
be called Novice had Tech Plus privileges and they had to pass the
current Element 2 I would have no trouble with that


Why?



I thought the old Novice was too easy



Current Element 2 is very VHF/UHF centric, and so are current Tech
Plus privs. The goal seems to be to strike more of a balance between
above and below 30 MHz privileges.



So change the question pool, but don't dumb it down



5 wpm code test retained for Extra only


Predictably, I do have a problem with that.


Me too. Should be at least 13 and preferably 20 wpm. Sending and
receiving.




Won't happen

Exactly. Nobody else uses code anymore. And what does the FCC
get out of it? And the medical wavier issues come back.... They ain't
gonna do anything to have THAT come up again!




Morse skill testing for voice privileges is illogical and should be
dumped.


It's no more illogical than testing theory in order to be allowed to
use manufactured equipment.




Not in my opinion



Moreover, it can be now,
since it has not been required by the ITU for the last six months.



FCC will most probably just drop it completely.




I think they will too

Again, nobody else uses code anymore. Code made good sense back
50 years ago during the vacuum tube radio era. Simple equipment was
all that was needed and given the reliability of vacuum tube stuff
voice could likely fail when needed. But today's equipment is all made
with chips and quite reliable. And digital modes like packet can
handle automatically
health and welfare traffic code used to do, with less operators needed.




Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra,


OK


Why OK? Why not simply carry the Advanceds as a separate class, as has
been done for the past 3 years and 9 months?



Can't stand loose ends

Let's say that 4 years experience as an advanced is equal to element 4B
(the old extra written an advanced used to be able to take to get his
extra).
So make the advanced turn into an extra next April.




Techs and Tech Pluses get free upgrade to General


Not OK in this scenario, given my comments above



Agreed - but why is it OK for Advanceds to get a free upgrade to
Extra, but not OK for Techs and Tech Pluses to get free upgrade to
General?

What is the fundamental difference that makes one freebie OK but not
the other?



As I see it, the new Novice would be a replacement for the Tech, which
is already pretty easy



'Phone image subbands for 80/40/15 widened slightly


Good.


Bad.



Some phone below 7100? No? Why not?


That space is needed for CW and digital modes.



Better to keep those on the Novice freqs and refarm more useful
spectrum to phone

Are the digital modes more tolerant of SW broadcaster QRM than SSB? If
so, move the digital modes to 7150-7300 and voice 7000-7150. If
nothing else, it would help chase the SW broadcasters away...



Brilliant idea! Now that's what I call lateral thinking. It'll never happen
though.

I suggest:-

7000-7045 CW/Digital
7045-7100 Phone
7100-7150 CW/Digital
7150-7245 Phone
7245-7300 CW/Digital

Nothing atall wrong with that, in fact it would be a major improvement.
It'll get me flamed, though!

73 de Alun, N3KIP

Alun wrote in message .. .
(N2EY) wrote in news:c2356669.0401191008.a3c8376
@posting.google.com:

http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1

Summary:

3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra

The _only_ merit to that is that testing was free for Novices, so it would
reintroduce a free licence class. Provided the new class that happened to
be called Novice had Tech Plus privileges and they had to pass the current
Element 2 I would have no trouble with that


5 wpm code test retained for Extra only


Predictably, I do have a problem with that. Morse skill testing for voice
privileges is illogical and should be dumped. Moreover, it can be now,
since it has not been required by the ITU for the last six months.

Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra,

OK

Techs
and Tech Pluses get free upgrade to General

Not OK in this scenario, given my comments above


'Phone image subbands for 80/40/15 widened slightly

Good. Some phone below 7100? No? Why not?


Old Novice subbands replaced by additional CW/data
and 'phone subbands on 80/40/15. Novices also get
privs on 6, 2, 222, and 440


See above

Novice power level set below that requiring RF exposure
evaluation


OK

Novice test to be 25 questions on "basics",

Not OK

General to be
derived from Tech and General, Extra pretty much as-is.


73 de Jim, N2EY

What do you actually think of this proposal yourself, Jim? You don't say
here.

73 de Alun, N3KIP


Alun, when we had 7 license classes, The Amateur Formerly Known As
Rev. Jim told me that the ARS needed more license classes, not fewer.

In article ,
(N2EY) "summarized" what is publicly referencible
and pretends to write "news:"

http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1

Summary:

3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra

Only the name of "Technician" changed to "Novice" in order to preserve
the lesser class (in the BoD's mind). Otherwise the present regulations
have only THREE classes of new licensees NOW.

5 wpm code test retained for Extra only

One small step for the BoD, not a giant leap for newbies.

Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, Techs
and Tech Pluses get free upgrade to General

ARRL needs membership revenue...they have to pander to just about
all of the lesser classes! :-)

'Phone image subbands for 80/40/15 widened slightly

Grudging acceptance of present-day practices. :-)

Old Novice subbands replaced by additional CW/data
and 'phone subbands on 80/40/15. Novices also get
privs on 6, 2, 222, and 440

Novice power level set below that requiring RF exposure
evaluation

Novice test to be 25 questions on "basics", General to be
derived from Tech and General, Extra pretty much as-is.

Okay, so the BoD is slowly, painstakingly "advancing" to the
present day. They ought to be about in the 1970s by now.

Hiram forbid that anyone EVER remove the code test requirement!

Such a thing is unheard of! Sacrilege to old T.O.M.!

Now is the time for all the League syncophants to chant and do
their mantra for the "forward-looking League doing its best for what
is best for U.S. amateur radio." They can do no wrong.

Gotta love it!

LHA / WMD

"N2EY" wrote in message
m...
http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1

Summary:

3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra

Pretty similar to Hans's proposal on classes.

5 wpm code test retained for Extra only

And so many folks thought they'd push for a higher speed test.

Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, Techs
and Tech Pluses get free upgrade to General

Sounds like something I suggested a couple of weeks
ago that scared a few folks.

'Phone image subbands for 80/40/15 widened slightly

Old Novice subbands replaced by additional CW/data
and 'phone subbands on 80/40/15. Novices also get
privs on 6, 2, 222, and 440

Novice power level set below that requiring RF exposure
evaluation

Novice test to be 25 questions on "basics", General to be
derived from Tech and General, Extra pretty much as-is.

Should be interesting as to how this goes down.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

"Bill Sohl" wrote


Pretty similar to Hans's proposal on classes.


Bill, you must be on drugs, or you have a severe disability regarding
comprehension of the English language.

73, de Hans, K0HB

Cutting edge stuph, I'm sure. Let's see what they got.

(N2EY) wrote in message om...
http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1

Summary:

3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra

5 wpm code test retained for Extra only

Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, Techs
and Tech Pluses get free upgrade to General

'Phone image subbands for 80/40/15 widened slightly

Old Novice subbands replaced by additional CW/data
and 'phone subbands on 80/40/15. Novices also get
privs on 6, 2, 222, and 440

Novice power level set below that requiring RF exposure
evaluation

Novice test to be 25 questions on "basics", General to be
derived from Tech and General, Extra pretty much as-is.


73 de Jim, N2EY

Pretty much just a consolidation of existing license classes. But a
move in the right direction.

In article ,
(N2EY) writes:

http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1

Summary:

3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra

5 wpm code test retained for Extra only

Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, Techs
and Tech Pluses get free upgrade to General

'Phone image subbands for 80/40/15 widened slightly

Old Novice subbands replaced by additional CW/data
and 'phone subbands on 80/40/15. Novices also get
privs on 6, 2, 222, and 440

Novice power level set below that requiring RF exposure
evaluation

Novice test to be 25 questions on "basics", General to be
derived from Tech and General, Extra pretty much as-is.


73 de Jim, N2EY

Jim:

This new ARRL Proposal is pretty much what I would expect to come out of
Newington these days. And that doesn't mean that I won't support it. However,
I don't see the FCC as being favorably disposed toward adding a new license
class to the ARS licensing structure. A better idea would have been to simply
incorporate the "New Novice" HF phone privileges with the current
Technician-class license, keeping General and Extra as they are in the new
proposal.

I don't see why the Extra-class code test requirement needs to be set at the
current 5 WPM level. A 12-wpm code test would be a better idea, and anyone
interested enough in achieving Extra could go from nothing to that level in a
matter of weeks. However, since Extra is already dumbed-down to 5 WPM, I
guess there's no putting the toothpaste back in the tube.

73 de Larry, K3LT

In article , ospam
(Larry Roll K3LT) writes:

In article ,
(N2EY) writes:

http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1

Summary:

3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra

5 wpm code test retained for Extra only

Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, Techs
and Tech Pluses get free upgrade to General

'Phone image subbands for 80/40/15 widened slightly

Old Novice subbands replaced by additional CW/data
and 'phone subbands on 80/40/15. Novices also get
privs on 6, 2, 222, and 440

Novice power level set below that requiring RF exposure
evaluation

Novice test to be 25 questions on "basics", General to be
derived from Tech and General, Extra pretty much as-is.


73 de Jim, N2EY

Jim:

This new ARRL Proposal is pretty much what I would expect to come out of
Newington these days.

Except it didn't come out of Newington - it's the result of the BoD's vote. And
the BoD are from all over the country, elected by the members.

And that doesn't mean that I won't support it.

I support parts of it.

However,
I don't see the FCC as being favorably disposed toward adding a new license
class to the ARS licensing structure.

Just a name change. They'd reopen Novice to new issues and close off Tech to
new issues so there would still be only three levels avaialble for new issues.

A better idea would have been to
simply
incorporate the "New Novice" HF phone privileges with the current
Technician-class license, keeping General and Extra as they are in the new
proposal.

Maybe they'll do just that.

I don't see why the Extra-class code test requirement needs to be set at the
current 5 WPM level.

It's a bone throne to those who support code testing. And if you look at the
comments to the various proposals submitted to FCC, those folks are in the
majority.

A 12-wpm code test would be a better idea, and anyone
interested enough in achieving Extra could go from nothing to that level in a
matter of weeks.

Of course.

However, since Extra is already dumbed-down to 5 WPM, I
guess there's no putting the toothpaste back in the tube.

Worth a try, though.

73 de Jim, N2EY