"Harris" wrote in message
...
JJ wrote:

Oh great, I get to be an Extra by default. I had rather keep my
Advanced, advanced even sounds more advanced than Extra does.

Yeah, my son is a Tech Plus. He was thinking of upgrading to General last
year but didn't bother. Now he stands to get a free upgrade. The message
is clear: Don't knock yourself out; be patient and eventually they'll give
you everything without asking you to expend any effort.

Art Harris N2AH

Actually I wonder if the ARRL petition isn't a crafty ruse. It will look
good to people who want what it proposes but has high odds of being rejected
by the FCC since the FCC has a long history of shooting down automatic
upgrades. They get the "attaboy" for "trying" and can then lay it at the
FCC's door when it fails even though they may want it to fail.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Alun" wrote in message
...
I see no benefit in giving over 7125-7150 to phone. 7075-7100, for
example,
would be the same size and in a more useful place. Moreover, it would
harmonise Region 2 US hams with US hams outside R2.


This will crowd the CW/digital/data modes too much since there are so many
US hams. It would be better to wait for the other treaty changes from the
conference to take affect and synchronize Regions 1 and 3 with Region 2.
You do know of course that the treaty now requires broadcasters to move out
of 7.1 to 7.2 and that this will become an exclusive amateur allocation. I
don't recall the timing but it is required in the treaty. Perhaps someday,
the ITU will open up the 7.2 to 7.3 to the other regions. In the meantime,
7.150 to 7.200 could be a worldwide phone allocation. This is actually more
space than either of the suggested proposals.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"KØHB" wrote in news:HVcPb.20602$zj7.12312
@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:


"Alun" wrote

As I understand it, the law providing free testing for Novices remains
on
the books. Hence, it really does matter what the entry level licence
is
called. If it is re-named 'Novice', then the test is free.

There is no such law.

As an incentive to stimulate interest, the ARRL VEC (maybe others)
adopted a policy of waiving the authorized charge for the Novice
examination. W5YI VEC (for one) tossed a hissy fit and tried to
convince FCC to require a fee, but the FCC declined to make it
mandatory.

73, de Hans, K0HB









That's not what I read. As far as I know it is in a law that was sponsored
by the late Senator Barry Goldwater, K7UGA.

(N2EY) wrote in
om:

Alun wrote in message
. ..
(N2EY) wrote in
:

In article , Alun
writes:

(N2EY) wrote in news:c2356669.0401191008.a3c8376
:

http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1

Summary:

3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra

The _only_ merit to that is that testing was free for Novices, so it
would reintroduce a free licence class.

Not part of the proposal as I read it.


As I understand it, the law providing free testing for Novices remains
on the books. Hence, it really does matter what the entry level
licence is called. If it is re-named 'Novice', then the test is free.

No, it's not part of the proposal, and having since read the whole
thing on the ARRL web site, it appears that the league haven't thought
about this particular wrinkle, as they say that the name is still open
and it could be called something else.

Unless K0HB is mistaken, no such rule exists in Part 97. And since no
new Novices have been issued in almost 4 years, it's a bit of a moot
point.

But it might be a nice thing for VECs to do...

The new Novice would replace the existing Technician class as the
entry level exam. It would have less power and fewer VHF/UHF
privileges, but more HF privileges.

Provided the new class that happened to
be called Novice had Tech Plus privileges and they had to pass the
current Element 2 I would have no trouble with that

Why?

I thought the old Novice was too easy

Why? The old 20-25 question Novice I took in 1967 at the age of 13 was
adequate to keep me out of trouble, even though my first station was
homebrewed from junk parts. And that Novice license started me on the
path to Advanced in about a year, Extra in about 3 years and BSEE in
a little over 8 years....

And there were many many Novices like me. If an entry level license
keeps the newbies out of trouble and inspires them to learn and do
more, isn't that just about perfect?

Current Element 2 is very VHF/UHF centric, and so are current Tech
Plus privs. The goal seems to be to strike more of a balance between
above and below 30 MHz privileges.

So change the question pool, but don't dumb it down

How do we define "dumbing it down"? If 35 questions are adequate for
all amateur VHF/UHF at full meat-cooking power, plus 200 watts on
parts of HF, shouldn't 25 be adequate for the limited privs
proposed for the Novice?

5 wpm code test retained for Extra only

Predictably, I do have a problem with that.

Me too. Should be at least 13 and preferably 20 wpm. Sending and
receiving.

Won't happen

Probably not, but it's still a good idea.

Morse skill testing for voice privileges is illogical and should be
dumped.

It's no more illogical than testing theory in order to be allowed to
use manufactured equipment.

Not in my opinion

It's the same argument used against the code test. Why *must* a ham
learn all that theory to use manufactured, approved gear with no
critical adjustments? Heck, most ham gear today won't transmit out
of band unless modified!

Moreover, it can be now,
since it has not been required by the ITU for the last six months.

FCC will most probably just drop it completely.

I think they will too

Unfortunately

Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra,

OK

Why OK? Why not simply carry the Advanceds as a separate class, as
has been done for the past 3 years and 9 months?

Can't stand loose ends

What's the problem? FCC kept the Advanced on the books from 1953 to
1967
even though no new ones were issued and the license conveyed no
additional
privileges at all.

Techs and Tech Pluses get free upgrade to General

Not OK in this scenario, given my comments above

Agreed - but why is it OK for Advanceds to get a free upgrade to
Extra, but not OK for Techs and Tech Pluses to get free upgrade to
General?

What is the fundamental difference that makes one freebie OK but not
the other?

As I see it, the new Novice would be a replacement for the Tech, which
is already pretty easy

Exactly. But that doesn't answer the question. You want Advanceds to
get free upgrades to avoid ~82,000 loose ends, but not Techs and Tech
pluses, who would
amount to ~322,000 loose ends.

I don't see why one and not the other.

'Phone image subbands for 80/40/15 widened slightly

Good.

Bad.

Some phone below 7100? No? Why not?

That space is needed for CW and digital modes.

Better to keep those on the Novice freqs and refarm more useful
spectrum to phone

Why reward the most spectrum-inefficent modes? Why not digital voice?

Old Novice subbands replaced by additional CW/data
and 'phone subbands on 80/40/15. Novices also get privs on 6, 2,
222, and 440

See above

Please clarify.

I see no benefit in giving over 7125-7150 to phone.

25 kHz more.

7075-7100, for example,
would be the same size and in a more useful place. Moreover, it would
harmonise Region 2 US hams with US hams outside R2.

Hams outside Region 2 will be getting 7100-7200 anyway. Let them
harmonize with us.


US hams outside R2 already have 7075-7100 phone

Read it again. *US* hams outside R2

Novice power level set below that requiring RF exposure evaluation

OK

Agreed.

Novice test to be 25 questions on "basics",

Not OK

Why not? Current Element 2 is only 35 questions! And it has a lot
more ground to cover, including all amateur VHF/UHF bands and modes,
power up to "meat cooking" levels (love that WK3C phrase) and much
more.

By reducing the entry-level privs, 25 questions should be enough.


With that power limit you could take out the RF exposure questions,
but I think the test is already easy enough.

To a beginner, it's not so easy.

General to be
derived from Tech and General, Extra pretty much as-is.

What do you actually think of this proposal yourself, Jim? You don't
say here.

See above. A few good ideas and a few bad ideas. Obviously the work
of a committee looking to give everyone something they want, but not
giving anyone everything they want.

What will FCC do?

First off, they may just go for the "new Novice", in an effort to
attract more new hams.

Re-naming the Tech as a Novice would make the test free under existing
law. That has some appeal.

See above about the "law".

Second, they will probably just dump Element 1.

Agreed

Third, they will probably not hand out free upgrades because it
costs them little or nothing to keep the closed-off classes.

I think that for some reason their computers are only set up to handle
5 classes of licence, but I guess that works out as there won't be two
types of Tech anymore (this is also the reason why they aren't
recorded differently right now).

Incorrect!

Before restructuring, their computers handled 6 classes of license
(Novice, Tech, Tech Plus, General, Advanced, Extra). In fact their
computers *still* handle 6 classes! So there should be no problem at
all.

And as Tech Pluses continue to be renewed as Techs, expire, and
upgrade, that class will disappear completely.

I personally am not in favour of keeping closed licence classes,
though. I think it is better to move on.

I agree, but not at the price of giveaways just to make things look
neater.


Better that than the only possible alternative - taking privileges away

How would you feel if it were decided to give all existing hams except
Novices a free upgrade to Extra, then have just two classes -
"Limited" (new name for Novice) and "Full" (everybody else)?

73 de Jim, N2EY


I would be OK with that only if the Techs got only a limited licence. I
would have no problem with giving Generals a full licence. Of course, to be
fair you would have to extend that to Techs with old Element 3.

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in
gy.com:


"Alun" wrote in message
...
I see no benefit in giving over 7125-7150 to phone. 7075-7100, for
example, would be the same size and in a more useful place. Moreover,
it would harmonise Region 2 US hams with US hams outside R2.


This will crowd the CW/digital/data modes too much since there are so
many US hams. It would be better to wait for the other treaty changes
from the conference to take affect and synchronize Regions 1 and 3 with
Region 2. You do know of course that the treaty now requires
broadcasters to move out of 7.1 to 7.2 and that this will become an
exclusive amateur allocation.

Of course I do, but do you think they will really move? Some may, but I
think some of them never will.

I don't recall the timing but it is
required in the treaty. Perhaps someday, the ITU will open up the 7.2
to 7.3 to the other regions. In the meantime, 7.150 to 7.200 could be
a worldwide phone allocation. This is actually more space than either
of the suggested proposals.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


I'm assuming that this will happen anyway. I just meant that 7075-7100,
where of course there is already phone, would be more use to phone ops than
the proposed 7125-7150, where there isn't.

"Alun" wrote

That's not what I read. As far as I know it is in a law
that was sponsored by the late Senator Barry
Goldwater, K7UGA.

I'm certain you're mistaken.

73, de Hans, K0HB

Alan wrote:

(N2EY) wrote in
:



In article , Alun
writes:



(N2EY) wrote in news:c2356669.0401191008.a3c8376
:



http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1

Summary:

3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra


The _only_ merit to that is that testing was free for Novices, so it
would reintroduce a free licence class.


Not part of the proposal as I read it.




As I understand it, the law providing free testing for Novices remains on
the books. Hence, it really does matter what the entry level licence is
called. If it is re-named 'Novice', then the test is free.

No, it's not part of the proposal, and having since read the whole thing on
the ARRL web site, it appears that the league haven't thought about this
particular wrinkle, as they say that the name is still open and it could be
called something else.



The new Novice would replace the existing Technician class as the entry
level exam. It would have less power and fewer VHF/UHF privileges, but
more HF privileges.



Provided the new class that happened to
be called Novice had Tech Plus privileges and they had to pass the
current Element 2 I would have no trouble with that


Why?



I thought the old Novice was too easy



Current Element 2 is very VHF/UHF centric, and so are current Tech Plus
privs. The goal seems to be to strike more of a balance between above
and below 30 MHz privileges.



So change the question pool, but don't dumb it down



5 wpm code test retained for Extra only


Predictably, I do have a problem with that.


Me too. Should be at least 13 and preferably 20 wpm. Sending and
receiving.




Won't happen

Exactly. Nobody else uses code anymore. And what does the FCC
get out of it? And the medical wavier issues come back.... They ain't
gonna do anything to have THAT come up again!




Morse skill testing for voice privileges is illogical and should be
dumped.


It's no more illogical than testing theory in order to be allowed to
use manufactured equipment.




Not in my opinion



Moreover, it can be now,
since it has not been required by the ITU for the last six months.



FCC will most probably just drop it completely.




I think they will too

Again, nobody else uses code anymore. Code made good sense back
50 years ago during the vacuum tube radio era. Simple equipment was
all that was needed and given the reliability of vacuum tube stuff voice
could likely fail when needed. But today's equipment is all made with
chips and quite reliable. And digital modes like packet can handle
automatically
health and welfare traffic code used to do, with less operators needed.




Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra,


OK


Why OK? Why not simply carry the Advanceds as a separate class, as has
been done for the past 3 years and 9 months?



Can't stand loose ends

Let's say that 4 years experience as an advanced is equal to element 4B
(the old extra written an advanced used to be able to take to get his
extra).
So make the advanced turn into an extra next April.




Techs and Tech Pluses get free upgrade to General


Not OK in this scenario, given my comments above



Agreed - but why is it OK for Advanceds to get a free upgrade to Extra,
but not OK for Techs and Tech Pluses to get free upgrade to General?

What is the fundamental difference that makes one freebie OK but not
the other?



As I see it, the new Novice would be a replacement for the Tech, which is
already pretty easy



'Phone image subbands for 80/40/15 widened slightly


Good.


Bad.



Some phone below 7100? No? Why not?


That space is needed for CW and digital modes.



Better to keep those on the Novice freqs and refarm more useful spectrum to
phone

Are the digital modes more tolerant of SW broadcaster QRM than SSB? If so,
move the digital modes to 7150-7300 and voice 7000-7150. If nothing
else, it would help chase the SW broadcasters away...

"Winston" wrote in message
news
I was an Advanced in 1963. I guess, by proxy, I will be able to say I
was an Extra for 40 years. I became an Extra in 1979. What will I
become now.

Think of it as having walked in a very large circle for the past 40 Years.

: ) : ) : )

Do you think that if everyone would just buy five copies of QST every
month the League would give up attempting to license every deadbeat
dad and upgrading every licensee that can recite QST?

Win/W0LZ

Probably an accurate observation Win. All that the ARRL has ever been
interested in for the past 40+ years is more subscriptions to their ad
filled fishwrap. No suprise really as the ARRL's 501-C3 Charter lists
them as a non-profit "scientific" publishing company.

Looks like the Ivy League also has **finally** realized that the Incentive
License disaster of the 1960's pretty much trashed ham radio.

Now their franticly trying to back-peddle the boat before it finally goes
over Niagra Falls. Not much you can do, seeing that 99.5% of young
persons are more interested in Ipod, Blogging, Chatrooms and other
Net related projects instead of this old antiquated hobby of their
granddaddy called "ham radio". (It used to be that ham radio was
unique in that it was the only alternative to making a long distance
telephone call to speak with someone far away. Today anyone can
do the same with a $10-per-month ISP and a PC. The NOVELTY
of long distance communications for the common person has worn
off - this is the root-cause of the issue - ham radio is become obsolete. )

Alun wrote in message .. .
(N2EY) wrote in
om:

Alun wrote in message
. ..
(N2EY) wrote in
:

In article , Alun
writes:

(N2EY) wrote in news:c2356669.0401191008.a3c8376
:

http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1

Summary:

3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra

The _only_ merit to that is that testing was free for Novices, so it
would reintroduce a free licence class.

Not part of the proposal as I read it.


As I understand it, the law providing free testing for Novices remains
on the books. Hence, it really does matter what the entry level
licence is called. If it is re-named 'Novice', then the test is free.

No, it's not part of the proposal, and having since read the whole
thing on the ARRL web site, it appears that the league haven't thought
about this particular wrinkle, as they say that the name is still open
and it could be called something else.

Unless K0HB is mistaken, no such rule exists in Part 97. And since no
new Novices have been issued in almost 4 years, it's a bit of a moot
point.

But it might be a nice thing for VECs to do...

The new Novice would replace the existing Technician class as the
entry level exam. It would have less power and fewer VHF/UHF
privileges, but more HF privileges.

Provided the new class that happened to
be called Novice had Tech Plus privileges and they had to pass the
current Element 2 I would have no trouble with that

Why?

I thought the old Novice was too easy

Why? The old 20-25 question Novice I took in 1967 at the age of 13 was
adequate to keep me out of trouble, even though my first station was
homebrewed from junk parts. And that Novice license started me on the
path to Advanced in about a year, Extra in about 3 years and BSEE in
a little over 8 years....

And there were many many Novices like me. If an entry level license
keeps the newbies out of trouble and inspires them to learn and do
more, isn't that just about perfect?

Well?

Think about it - what exactly *should* an entry-level license do? If
it insures that newcomers know enough to keep out of trouble (on the
air, anyway,) gives them a sample of what amateur radio is about, and
inspires them to learn and do more with ham radio, isn't that just
about perfect?

Current Element 2 is very VHF/UHF centric, and so are current Tech
Plus privs. The goal seems to be to strike more of a balance between
above and below 30 MHz privileges.

So change the question pool, but don't dumb it down

How do we define "dumbing it down"? If 35 questions are adequate for
all amateur VHF/UHF at full meat-cooking power, plus 200 watts on
parts of HF, shouldn't 25 be adequate for the limited privs
proposed for the Novice?

How much is it reasonable to expect a newcomer to learn in order to be
turned loose with ~100 watts on parts of HF and ~25 watts on parts of
VHF/UHF?

5 wpm code test retained for Extra only

Predictably, I do have a problem with that.

Me too. Should be at least 13 and preferably 20 wpm. Sending and
receiving.

Won't happen

Probably not, but it's still a good idea.

Morse skill testing for voice privileges is illogical and should be
dumped.

It's no more illogical than testing theory in order to be allowed to
use manufactured equipment.

Not in my opinion

It's the same argument used against the code test. Why *must* a ham
learn all that theory to use manufactured, approved gear with no
critical adjustments? Heck, most ham gear today won't transmit out
of band unless modified!

Moreover, it can be now,
since it has not been required by the ITU for the last six months.

FCC will most probably just drop it completely.

I think they will too

Unfortunately

Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra,

OK

Why OK? Why not simply carry the Advanceds as a separate class, as
has been done for the past 3 years and 9 months?

Can't stand loose ends

What's the problem? FCC kept the Advanced on the books from 1953 to
1967
even though no new ones were issued and the license conveyed no
additional
privileges at all.

Do those loose ends really cause any problems?

Techs and Tech Pluses get free upgrade to General

Not OK in this scenario, given my comments above

Agreed - but why is it OK for Advanceds to get a free upgrade to
Extra, but not OK for Techs and Tech Pluses to get free upgrade to
General?

What is the fundamental difference that makes one freebie OK but not
the other?

As I see it, the new Novice would be a replacement for the Tech, which
is already pretty easy

Exactly. But that doesn't answer the question. You want Advanceds to
get free upgrades to avoid ~82,000 loose ends, but not Techs and Tech
pluses, who would
amount to ~322,000 loose ends.

I don't see why one and not the other.

'Phone image subbands for 80/40/15 widened slightly

Good.

Bad.

Some phone below 7100? No? Why not?

That space is needed for CW and digital modes.

Better to keep those on the Novice freqs and refarm more useful
spectrum to phone

Why reward the most spectrum-inefficent modes? Why not digital voice?

Old Novice subbands replaced by additional CW/data
and 'phone subbands on 80/40/15. Novices also get privs on 6, 2,
222, and 440

See above

Please clarify.

I see no benefit in giving over 7125-7150 to phone.

25 kHz more.

7075-7100, for example,
would be the same size and in a more useful place. Moreover, it would
harmonise Region 2 US hams with US hams outside R2.

Hams outside Region 2 will be getting 7100-7200 anyway. Let them
harmonize with us.


US hams outside R2 already have 7075-7100 phone

Only because they don't have 7100-7200. US hams outside R2 are rare
enough to be conidered "DX" anyway.

Read it again. *US* hams outside R2

I did. As they get 7100-7200, any reason to have 'phone below
7100 goes away completely.

Novice power level set below that requiring RF exposure evaluation

OK

Agreed.

Novice test to be 25 questions on "basics",

Not OK

Why not? Current Element 2 is only 35 questions! And it has a lot
more ground to cover, including all amateur VHF/UHF bands and modes,
power up to "meat cooking" levels (love that WK3C phrase) and much
more.

By reducing the entry-level privs, 25 questions should be enough.


With that power limit you could take out the RF exposure questions,
but I think the test is already easy enough.

To a beginner, it's not so easy.

General to be
derived from Tech and General, Extra pretty much as-is.

What do you actually think of this proposal yourself, Jim? You don't
say here.

See above. A few good ideas and a few bad ideas. Obviously the work
of a committee looking to give everyone something they want, but not
giving anyone everything they want.

What will FCC do?

First off, they may just go for the "new Novice", in an effort to
attract more new hams.

Re-naming the Tech as a Novice would make the test free under existing
law. That has some appeal.

See above about the "law".

Second, they will probably just dump Element 1.

Agreed

Third, they will probably not hand out free upgrades because it
costs them little or nothing to keep the closed-off classes.

I think that for some reason their computers are only set up to handle
5 classes of licence, but I guess that works out as there won't be two
types of Tech anymore (this is also the reason why they aren't
recorded differently right now).

Incorrect!

Before restructuring, their computers handled 6 classes of license
(Novice, Tech, Tech Plus, General, Advanced, Extra). In fact their
computers *still* handle 6 classes! So there should be no problem at
all.

And as Tech Pluses continue to be renewed as Techs, expire, and
upgrade, that class will disappear completely.

I personally am not in favour of keeping closed licence classes,
though. I think it is better to move on.

I agree, but not at the price of giveaways just to make things look
neater.


Better that than the only possible alternative - taking privileges away

But is there really any reason not to simply continue those license
classes? That's a much, much better option than freebies or removing
privileges.

How would you feel if it were decided to give all existing hams except
Novices a free upgrade to Extra, then have just two classes -
"Limited" (new name for Novice) and "Full" (everybody else)?

73 de Jim, N2EY


I would be OK with that only if the Techs got only a limited licence.

Why would Techs be singled out for a limited license? They have full
privs above 50 MHz.

I
would have no problem with giving Generals a full licence.

By your reasoning, there's no reason to have the Extra, then. Nor its
test.

Of course, to be
fair you would have to extend that to Techs with old Element 3.

Where ya been, Alun?

Techs with old Element 3 (licensed before March 21, 1987) can get a
General
license *today* with no additional testing. Just show up at a VE
session with
proof of such license, fill out the 605 and pay the VE fee. Instant
General.
And if such a ham can pass the Extra written (might as well try, the
same
VE fee buys that test too), they get an Extra.

Been that way since April 15, 2000.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Well?

Think about it - what exactly *should* an entry-level license do? If
it insures that newcomers know enough to keep out of trouble (on the
air, anyway,) gives them a sample of what amateur radio is about, and
inspires them to learn and do more with ham radio, isn't that just
about perfect?


An entry level license test should expect knowledge of how to know what
frequency
your transmitter is on, what mode, the subbands for which modes, how to
identify
RFI problems (harmonics), simple antennas, rules about IDing, no
business traffic,
operating (pick a frequency nobody else is using to call CQ, but once
you're done
it's not your frequency anymore), simple emergency traffic operations.



Current Element 2 is very VHF/UHF centric, and so are current Tech
Plus privs. The goal seems to be to strike more of a balance between
above and below 30 MHz privileges.

Aside from propagation, there's really little difference from HF and
VHF/UHF.
Questions like "Is 80m likely to have good propagation for DX during the
daytime?"
don't really address issues of safety and interference to other
services. A beginner
will soon learn on the air what times and bands make sense for DX
operations.



So change the question pool, but don't dumb it down


How do we define "dumbing it down"? If 35 questions are adequate for
all amateur VHF/UHF at full meat-cooking power, plus 200 watts on
parts of HF, shouldn't 25 be adequate for the limited privs
proposed for the Novice?

Number of questions, given all the time you want to finish the test, doesn't
make a test easy or hard. 5 tough questions is a lot harder to pass than
100 really easy questions.




How much is it reasonable to expect a newcomer to learn in order to be
turned loose with ~100 watts on parts of HF and ~25 watts on parts of
VHF/UHF?



5 wpm code test retained for Extra only


Predictably, I do have a problem with that.


Me too. Should be at least 13 and preferably 20 wpm. Sending and
receiving.


Won't happen


Probably not, but it's still a good idea.

Why, no otehr service uses code anymore, and more modern data
modes now exist. Yes, they require more advanced equipment, but
modern equipment is much more reliable than the vacuum tube stuff
we had 50 years ago. NASA's JPL doesn't use Morse code with
the Mars probes. And that's really hard DX to do.





Moreover, it can be now,
since it has not been required by the ITU for the last six months.



FCC will most probably just drop it completely.


I think they will too


Unfortunately

What does the FCC get out of requiring code, now that the treaty doesn't
require it anymore?






Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra,


OK


Why OK? Why not simply carry the Advanceds as a separate class, as
has been done for the past 3 years and 9 months?


Can't stand loose ends


What's the problem? FCC kept the Advanced on the books from 1953 to
1967
even though no new ones were issued and the license conveyed no
additional
privileges at all.



Do those loose ends really cause any problems?

Not that I can see. But if there is a problem, well, let's call 4 years
of experience as an advanced the same as passing the old element 4B,
and make them extras.



Some phone below 7100? No? Why not?


That space is needed for CW and digital modes.


Better to keep those on the Novice freqs and refarm more useful
spectrum to phone


Why reward the most spectrum-inefficent modes? Why not digital voice?


Maybe designate some subbands for new and experimental modes as
primary, and allow older modes on a secondary basis. That is, you
have to accept interference from them, and not cause them interference.
And encourage new methods of modulating the RF carrier directly
instead of say 2m packet where everyone just injected the modem signal
into their FM voice mode rigs. Not efficient.



Old Novice subbands replaced by additional CW/data

Maybe we might want some Morse code beginner subbands where new users
can feel comfortable operating and not get blown away by experts. As an
informal gentlemen's agreement. Need not be much bandwidth, a few "CW
channels"
should be enough.





Novice power level set below that requiring RF exposure evaluation


OK


Agreed.

Used to be 75 watts input power. Make it the level that most
commercial yeacomwood trancievers produce "barefoot".




How would you feel if it were decided to give all existing hams except
Novices a free upgrade to Extra, then have just two classes -
"Limited" (new name for Novice) and "Full" (everybody else)?

73 de Jim, N2EY



I would be OK with that only if the Techs got only a limited licence.

Then that'd be 3 classes then.




Why would Techs be singled out for a limited license? They have full
privs above 50 MHz.



I
would have no problem with giving Generals a full licence.



By your reasoning, there's no reason to have the Extra, then. Nor its
test.

Used to be the extra only gave you a shorter callsign (if avaliable) and
bragging rights.






Techs with old Element 3 (licensed before March 21, 1987) can get a
General
license *today* with no additional testing. Just show up at a VE
session with
proof of such license, fill out the 605 and pay the VE fee. Instant
General.
And if such a ham can pass the Extra written (might as well try, the
same
VE fee buys that test too), they get an Extra.

That's what I did. I did study for it, though. Wanted to "lock in" my
element 3
and element 1 anyway (so I wouldn't need to worry about holding onto old
copies of my tech license) and also might as well go for the whole
enchallida
while I was at it. Though that enchallida doesn't have a 20WPM topping...


Been that way since April 15, 2000.

73 de Jim, N2EY