In article , (N2EY)
writes:

In article , "Helmut"
writes:

My philosophy is that anyone in any country who can pass the required tests of
that
country and get the required license is welcome on the ham bands.

...but not in here where only "real" hams belong... :-)


Most of them did not pass the "US
GOLD CARD EXTRA" tests. They are given full HF privileges by the
authorities.

Sure - that's up to the governments of their countries. And what US hams get
is up
to the FCC.

...all after severe and almost solo lobbying by the ARRL in older times.

This will also occur in the United States in the near future.

You mean the FCC will eliminate the Extra class license? How and why?

You are the "insider" at the FCC, what are they "really thinking?" :-)

Do you realy think, your authority will step back from their voting at
WRC03? Do you think they want to loose their face towards those other
countries they were partnering at the WRC03?

I'm not sure what you mean.

Tsk, tsk, tsk...you never followed the reports via the IARU and other
nations' administrative delegations, did you? :-)


They all are your fellow hams. Your friends, buddies, pals, or fellas. Why
don't you try to do the same, as the rest of the worlds hams are doing to
their hamfriends, stepping up now into the heaven of ham radio?

I've been in the heaven of ham radio for almost 37 years now, Helmut. Last
night I worked an OK1 on 40 CW and an F5 on 80 CW with my 100W
homebrew rig. Got the OK1 on the first buzz but there was quite a pile on
the F5.

You didn't answer the question...

Welcome
them, elmer them, if you think they are not skilled enough, and give them
the feeling of beeing welcome in your part of the spectrum.

Been doing that for almost 37 years now.

Of course you have, spending hours and hours on the computer telling
everyone to follow the old ways, to concentrate on telegraphy as the
most valuable skill. :-)


From all the others around the globe you cannot tell, if they've got their
HF-privileges after the WRC without passing a test.

You're missing the point, Helmut.

You are missing Helmut's point, James.

What is being proposed by some is that some existing hams get a free
upgrade to the next-higher license class without a *written* test that is
required of everyone else. Some of us don't think that's a good idea.

Yes, it robs you of your federally-guaranteed bragging rights. :-)

What will your reaction
be? "Go home, this is MY PARTof the spectrum"?

No. But I will oppose changing the rules.

The status quo must remain. Forever. Ho hum.

There will be poor operational skills around for a while.

That's not the issue at all.

Is BPL the issue? :-)

Just recall YOUR first months of HF-operation.

October 1967.

Mine was in February, 1953. :-) I was already an
adult, of age...

No master ever fell out of the blue sky, they all had to take
their lesson and do her homework and practice.

But first they had to take the required tests.

I didn't take any tests. Just followed orders. Did that for 3
years with 43 HF transmitters and/or 9 24-channel microwave
terminals. No problem.


I agree with all of that. But that code does not mean that I must accept
without protest any and all proposed changes to the ARS.

...yas, yas, only MORSE CODE must be followed... :-)

--The original Amateur's Code was written by Paul M. Segal, W9EEA, in 1928.
Nowadays there has to be added: global thinking

What does global thinking have to do with requirements for an amateur radio
license in the USA?

Certainly, reciprocal operation...not to mention being on good terms with
other nations for negotiations with the gigantic non-amateur radio
activity.

Maybe the rest of the world should adopt the USA's ideas.

Careful...your innate superiority is showing...


And concerning this newsgroup as to be US-based and written in english
language is not protecting you of beeing a ham. Act like, speak like and
write like it is to the honor of amateur radio.

What have I written that is dishonorable? I have said that *all* who pass the
required tests and get the required license are welcome in *our* sandbox.

You need to think of changing the sand...


I don't see where dropping the code test to 5 wpm helped much. A lot of
existing US hams
upgraded their existing licenses, but an even greater number did not. There
was a
very slight increase in the number of US hams. But not a large increase.

tsk, tsk, tsk...there's only a few thousand or so OTHER hobby
activities that vie for attention. I'm sure you discount those as
inconsequential...

Several countries around the globe have dropped their Morse code tests
entirely.
Have they gotten lots more new hams as a result?

Was dropping the morse test requirement ALL about "getting more
hams?" I don't think so. Obviously you do.

Your authority ignored it. Do you think they did
change their habit to please 10 percent of the american hams?

The USA reduced code testing to 5 wpm back in April 2000, even though
the majority of American hams who expressed an opinion to the government
wanted more than 5 wpm.

There were no more than 2300 Comments by individuals to FCC
NPRM 98-143. That is less than 0.3% of those licensed; a
couple of those were licensed with other countries.

There's over 5100 Comments on NOI 03-104.

"Majority?" I don't see it. But, if the ARRL said it was a "majority"
then everyone has to believe the ARRL. The ARRL can do no wrong.


To be even more specific: In the Cairo convention of 1938, certain central
European governments insisted on taking part of the ham band for SWBC.
Their allies in the Far East agreed. The compromise was that Region 2
kept 40 meters as 7000-7300.

And although those governments are long gone, it has taken more than
60 years to change things.

Tsk, tsk, tsk...the 40 m issue wasn't solved at WARC-79 and didn't get
any real start at any solution until WRC-03. It won't be close to solved
until WRC-07.

In the meantime, I would suggest a review of world political change
that happened between 1938 and 1955. Was rather a lot of change
that I witnessed. Take all the time you need.


Jim, it is not the difference in numbers, it is just the fact, that it
happend.

If there is no difference in numbers, why make the change?

Right...maintain the status quo foever and ever. Yawn.


Showing anger and agressiv language against those beeing a
"victim" of the restructuring process doesn't bring any good to the ham
family.

I see far more anger from others who disagree with me. Your friend Len
Anderson is very angry and aggressive. He is not a ham and would not
make a good ham, judging by how he writes here.

Tsk, tsk, tsk...still smarting over not getting the honor and respect
you think you deserve in newsgroups? :-)

Do you think your Amateur Extra class license puts you "above"
all others? :-) [of course you do...and you bitterly resent the
others not agreeing with you...]

Not in your country, and not around the world. And where we cannot
do anything against it, it's not worth to argue about it.

But maybe something can be done about it.

Careful or you will be labeled "angry and agressive!" :-)

I don't think the written tests for a US amateur radio license with full
privileges should be made easier. In fact, I think they are too easy.
The *written* tests! Should I just be quiet about it?

Right! No "quiet." Be ANGRY AND AGGRESSIVE. Every day
of the week... :-)


Here in Europe, we even did'nt have the time to try negotiating. The
authorities of the various countries just signed the bill and thats it.

That's why I live in the USA. We have the right to argue and negotiate.

Except in this newsgroup where just anyone can come in! :-)

It's
called the democratic process. Some of my distant ancestors invented it
thousands of years ago.

Oh my! The Greeks did it, but by males only.

The first practical application was in Iceland about 2000 years ago.
It was called the "Althing" in Scandinavian. :-)


I disagree. Our FCC should go through the democratic process, not simply
hand down rules with no discussion.

Oh? I thought you wanted the FCC to accept anything the ARRL
told them to do?

Saves time and energy by letting ARRL do all the dirty work.
That way you are free to "work" OKs and F5s. :-)

This would save you all here on this thread a lot of nerves.

Maybe. But discussion is part of the process.

Except in here where "lesser" individuals are considered bottom-
feeding slime, unworthy of saying anything... :-)

LHA / WMD

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article , (N2EY)

I've been in the heaven of ham radio for almost 37 years now, Helmut. Last
night I worked an OK1 on 40 CW and an F5 on 80 CW with my 100W
homebrew rig. Got the OK1 on the first buzz but there was quite a pile on
the F5.

You didn't answer the question...

Lennie...

YOU have NO BUSINESS chastising ANYONE for not answering any
questions...You have so many unanswered questions addressed to YOU out
there that even if you did start answering them (honestly or
otherwise...), the sun would nova before we got through them all.

Except in here where "lesser" individuals are considered bottom-
feeding slime, unworthy of saying anything... :-)

The only "lesser" people "in here" are those who lie, decieve and
antagonize...Such as yourself, for example.

Steve, K4YZ

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

William wrote:

Mark, you must first understand the mind of Heil and Heil apologists.

You left out "his running dogs and lackeys".

Dave K8MN

Incorrect...YOU are here...

LHA / WMD

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

William wrote:

Mark, you must first understand the mind of Heil and Heil apologists.

You left out "his running dogs and lackeys".

Incorrect...YOU are here...


After re-reading Brian's statement and my response, your comment makes
no sense whatever.

Dave K8MN

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

After re-reading Brian's statement and my response, your comment makes
no sense whatever.

Poor baby. Another with intellectual presbyopia. Tsk, tsk.

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

After re-reading Brian's statement and my response, your comment makes
no sense whatever.

Poor baby. Another with intellectual presbyopia. Tsk, tsk.

Len Over 21 wrote:

William wrote:

Mark, you must first understand the mind of Heil and Heil apologists.

You left out "his running dogs and lackeys".

Incorrect...YOU are here...

In article , Dave Heil writes:

After re-reading Brian's statement and my response, your comment makes
no sense whatever.

Poor baby. Another with intellectual presbyopia. Tsk, tsk.

I had no idea that's what you were diagnosed with, Len. I'm awfully
sorry. I should have realized that there was something behind these
seemingly senseless outbursts of yours. I did you a favor and
re-inserted the part you snipped. If you look at the whole thing,
perhaps it'll become clear to you how you made your error.

Dave K8MN

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

William wrote:

Mark, you must first understand the mind of Heil and Heil apologists.

You left out "his running dogs and lackeys".

Incorrect...YOU are here...

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

After re-reading Brian's statement and my response, your comment makes
no sense whatever.

Poor baby. Another with intellectual presbyopia. Tsk, tsk.

I had no idea that's what you were diagnosed with, Len.

HAR! YOU are the one diagnosed with it... :-)

Presbyopia: A common condition in humans around 40 and older
where the eyeball becomes less flexible, thus requiring bifocal or
trifocal lens correction for wide-range optical focussing.

Intellectual presbyopia: A common condition among olde-tyme
hammes of the morse persuasion whose mind has become
inflexible and incapable of understanding communications they
are not familiar with or not explained by the League in some
publication such as "Talking for Dummies."

I'm awfully sorry.

True enough. [surprising self-depreciatory admission!]

I should have realized that there was something behind these
seemingly senseless outbursts of yours.

Yes, those "outbursts" are down in the noise level of independent
thought. You don't have much of that.

I did you a favor and re-inserted the part you snipped.

Why? Did your letter-tracing-finger run down to the bottom of the
monitor again?

If you look at the whole thing,
perhaps it'll become clear to you how you made your error.

My only "error" is considering that olde-tyme hammes of the morse
persuasion MIGHT try to be civil or at least accept the fate of morse
testing defeat with some grace. In that regard I was absolutely
wrong and admit it freely. :-)

Was there anything else, then?

LHA / WMD

In article ,
(William) writes:

JJ wrote in message
...

They would have had to successfully flown solo several times before
getting a license.

Gotta love this logic. You get to fly an airplane solo several times
before you can get a pilots license, but can't get on HF without first
taking a morse code test and getting a license.

ONLY in the "amateur service," Brian.

Way back in 1958 any U.S. civilian could get on HF without any
code test or ANY other test. :-) Been that way ever since.

SGC's SG-2020 HF transceiver is sold to private boat owners who
don't have to take any morse test to operate it legally on HF. Not
even if they buy power amplifiers to boost 20 W output to 400 W.

Many, many, many government and military personnel operate on
HF quite legally every day without having to take any morse test
to "prove their technical ability" to be a "skilled radio operator."

Nope...in the US of A radio amateurs aren't "real" hams until they
pass that archaic morse test...sez the "amateur community."

That's the LAW, and, by [expletive deleted], those olde-tyme
hamme raddio kopps are going to enforce it no matter what!

LHA / WMD

Len Over 21 wrote:
In article ,
(William) writes:

Gotta love this logic. You get to fly an airplane solo several times
before you can get a pilots license, but can't get on HF without first
taking a morse code test and getting a license.

So, there are a lot of things you must do first before you can solo in
an aircraft, like learning how to land, takeoff, read sectional maps,
navigate using landmarks, use the VOR for navigation, how to operate the
radio and communicate with traffic control using proper procedures ect.,
ect., and prove to the instructor you can do all this and be safe in the
aircraft by yourself. It is a lot more than learning simple Morse code.
And by the way, you must be familier enough with Morse code to be able
to look at the sectional map and interperate dots and dashes so you can
identify VOR's, as the id is sent in code. Them are the rules...don't
like it? then don't get a pilots license or ham license. Until the rules
change, those are the requirements to meet, like it or not.


ONLY in the "amateur service," Brian.

Way back in 1958 any U.S. civilian could get on HF without any
code test or ANY other test. :-) Been that way ever since.

Not on the ham bands.


SGC's SG-2020 HF transceiver is sold to private boat owners who
don't have to take any morse test to operate it legally on HF. Not
even if they buy power amplifiers to boost 20 W output to 400 W.

But not for operation on the ham bands. Different service, different set
of rules.


Many, many, many government and military personnel operate on
HF quite legally every day without having to take any morse test
to "prove their technical ability" to be a "skilled radio operator."

But not on the ham bands, different service, different set of requirements.

Nope...in the US of A radio amateurs aren't "real" hams until they
pass that archaic morse test...sez the "amateur community."

Yep, until the rules change, to get a license for HF operation you must
pass the code test. You claim you have no interest in getting a ham
license so it shouldn't matter a whit to you, so what's your beef old
man? Oh, I know, you can't pass the test.

That's the LAW, and, by [expletive deleted], those olde-tyme
hamme raddio kopps are going to enforce it no matter what!

No, the olde-type hamme raddio kopps don't enforce anything, the FCC
does and until the FCC changes the rules, it is the law. Even if the
code test requirement is dropped you still won't be able to get a ham
license because you can't pass the test, even as simple as it is today.