Alun wrote in message . ..
(N2EY) wrote in
om:

Alun wrote in message
.. .
(N2EY) wrote in
om:

Alun wrote in message
. ..
(N2EY) wrote in
:

In article , Alun
writes:

(N2EY) wrote in news:c2356669.0401191008.a3c8376
:

http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1

Summary:

3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra

The _only_ merit to that is that testing was free for Novices, so
it would reintroduce a free licence class.

Not part of the proposal as I read it.


As I understand it, the law providing free testing for Novices
remains on the books. Hence, it really does matter what the entry
level licence is called. If it is re-named 'Novice', then the test
is free.

No, it's not part of the proposal, and having since read the whole
thing on the ARRL web site, it appears that the league haven't
thought about this particular wrinkle, as they say that the name is
still open and it could be called something else.

Unless K0HB is mistaken, no such rule exists in Part 97. And since
no new Novices have been issued in almost 4 years, it's a bit of a
moot point.

But it might be a nice thing for VECs to do...

As best as I can follow it a statute made testing free for Novices, and a
later administrative decision closed the class to new entrants.

No such statute exists. If it did, it would be in Part 97.

Obviously
the FCC don't have to include in Part 97 a rule giving free testing for
Novices whilst there are no Novice tests, but if they re-started Novice
testing it would have to be free. I admit I could be wrong, but that is how
I understand it, unless someone can show me proof to the contrary.

The nonexistence of something cannot be proven. There used to be a
rule in Part 97 that Novice tests were free.

The new Novice would replace the existing Technician class as the
entry level exam. It would have less power and fewer VHF/UHF
privileges, but more HF privileges.

Provided the new class that happened to
be called Novice had Tech Plus privileges and they had to pass
the current Element 2 I would have no trouble with that

Why?

I thought the old Novice was too easy

Why? The old 20-25 question Novice I took in 1967 at the age of 13
was adequate to keep me out of trouble, even though my first station
was homebrewed from junk parts. And that Novice license started me
on the path to Advanced in about a year, Extra in about 3 years and
BSEE in a little over 8 years....

And there were many many Novices like me. If an entry level license
keeps the newbies out of trouble and inspires them to learn and do
more, isn't that just about perfect?

Well?

Think about it - what exactly *should* an entry-level license do? If
it insures that newcomers know enough to keep out of trouble (on the
air, anyway,) gives them a sample of what amateur radio is about, and
inspires them to learn and do more with ham radio, isn't that just
about perfect?

I don't see very many people having any great difficulty with the present
Element 2, so why does it need to be easier?

Present Element 2 is for the VHF/UHF-centric Tech. The more balanced
"NewNovice"
simply needs a different test.

The privileges would be more
than the old Novice as well.

Yep - and much less in some ways than the Tech.

Each license level needs a test tailored to its privileges and intent.

Current Element 2 is very VHF/UHF centric, and so are current
Tech Plus privs. The goal seems to be to strike more of a balance
between above and below 30 MHz privileges.

So change the question pool, but don't dumb it down

How do we define "dumbing it down"? If 35 questions are adequate for
all amateur VHF/UHF at full meat-cooking power, plus 200 watts on
parts of HF, shouldn't 25 be adequate for the limited privs proposed
for the Novice?

How much is it reasonable to expect a newcomer to learn in order to be
turned loose with ~100 watts on parts of HF and ~25 watts on parts of
VHF/UHF?

To put it another way, why shouldn't the Techs have all those proposed HF
privileges, since they have passed a test with more questions than that
proposed?

It would be reasonable for exiting Techs to keep their existing
license name
and VHF/UHF privileges, *and* get "NewNovice" privileges on HF.

5 wpm code test retained for Extra only

Predictably, I do have a problem with that.

Me too. Should be at least 13 and preferably 20 wpm. Sending and
receiving.

Won't happen

Probably not, but it's still a good idea.

Morse skill testing for voice privileges is illogical and should
be dumped.

It's no more illogical than testing theory in order to be allowed
to use manufactured equipment.

Not in my opinion

It's the same argument used against the code test. Why *must* a ham
learn all that theory to use manufactured, approved gear with no
critical adjustments? Heck, most ham gear today won't transmit out
of band unless modified!

Moreover, it can be now,
since it has not been required by the ITU for the last six
months.

FCC will most probably just drop it completely.

I think they will too

Unfortunately

Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra,

OK

Why OK? Why not simply carry the Advanceds as a separate class,
as has been done for the past 3 years and 9 months?

Can't stand loose ends

What's the problem? FCC kept the Advanced on the books from 1953 to
1967 even though no new ones were issued and the license conveyed no
additional privileges at all.

Do those loose ends really cause any problems?

Confusion?

Whose? Not FCC's!

Besides, Element 4A had most of the harder questions anyway.

Not really. I passed old Element 4A back in 1968, at the age of 14,
between 8th and 9th grades. I wasn't even intending to try it - I was
at the FCC for the 13 wpm code, and the examiner said "why not try
Advanced while you're here?". So I did.

How hard could it have really been if I passed it first-time under
those circumstances?

Techs and Tech Pluses get free upgrade to General

Not OK in this scenario, given my comments above

Agreed - but why is it OK for Advanceds to get a free upgrade to
Extra, but not OK for Techs and Tech Pluses to get free upgrade
to General?

What is the fundamental difference that makes one freebie OK but
not the other?

As I see it, the new Novice would be a replacement for the Tech,
which is already pretty easy

Exactly. But that doesn't answer the question. You want Advanceds to
get free upgrades to avoid ~82,000 loose ends, but not Techs and
Tech pluses, who would
amount to ~322,000 loose ends.

I don't see why one and not the other.

'Phone image subbands for 80/40/15 widened slightly

Good.

Bad.

Some phone below 7100? No? Why not?

That space is needed for CW and digital modes.

Better to keep those on the Novice freqs and refarm more useful
spectrum to phone

Why reward the most spectrum-inefficent modes? Why not digital
voice?

It has worse S/N performance than SSB

That depends entirely on the type of encoding and modulation used,
doesn't it?
Can you categorically say that digital voice can *never* outperform
SSB?

Old Novice subbands replaced by additional CW/data
and 'phone subbands on 80/40/15. Novices also get privs on 6,
2, 222, and 440

See above

Please clarify.

I see no benefit in giving over 7125-7150 to phone.

25 kHz more.

7075-7100, for example,
would be the same size and in a more useful place. Moreover, it
would harmonise Region 2 US hams with US hams outside R2.

Hams outside Region 2 will be getting 7100-7200 anyway. Let them
harmonize with us.


US hams outside R2 already have 7075-7100 phone

Only because they don't have 7100-7200. US hams outside R2 are rare
enough to be conidered "DX" anyway.

Read it again. *US* hams outside R2

I did. As they get 7100-7200, any reason to have 'phone below
7100 goes away completely.

Only when:-

1 - all the broadcasters have moved, probably circa the year 2100;

Why do they *all* have to move? And the timetable is 2007, IIRC

and

2 - all the countries have 7100-7200, which might almost take as long

I think you just want to have 7075-7100 regardless of what would
happen.


Novice power level set below that requiring RF exposure
evaluation

OK

Agreed.

Novice test to be 25 questions on "basics",

Not OK

Why not? Current Element 2 is only 35 questions! And it has a lot
more ground to cover, including all amateur VHF/UHF bands and
modes, power up to "meat cooking" levels (love that WK3C phrase)
and much more.

By reducing the entry-level privs, 25 questions should be enough.


With that power limit you could take out the RF exposure questions,
but I think the test is already easy enough.

To a beginner, it's not so easy.

My XYL passed Elements 2 and 3A, and she has no real interest in radio.

That's one example.

General to be
derived from Tech and General, Extra pretty much as-is.

What do you actually think of this proposal yourself, Jim? You
don't say here.

See above. A few good ideas and a few bad ideas. Obviously the
work of a committee looking to give everyone something they want,
but not giving anyone everything they want.

What will FCC do?

First off, they may just go for the "new Novice", in an effort to
attract more new hams.

Re-naming the Tech as a Novice would make the test free under
existing law. That has some appeal.

See above about the "law".

Second, they will probably just dump Element 1.

Agreed

Third, they will probably not hand out free upgrades because it
costs them little or nothing to keep the closed-off classes.

I think that for some reason their computers are only set up to
handle 5 classes of licence, but I guess that works out as there
won't be two types of Tech anymore (this is also the reason why
they aren't recorded differently right now).

Incorrect!

Before restructuring, their computers handled 6 classes of license
(Novice, Tech, Tech Plus, General, Advanced, Extra). In fact their
computers *still* handle 6 classes! So there should be no problem at
all.

And as Tech Pluses continue to be renewed as Techs, expire, and
upgrade, that class will disappear completely.

I personally am not in favour of keeping closed licence classes,
though. I think it is better to move on.

I agree, but not at the price of giveaways just to make things look
neater.


Better that than the only possible alternative - taking privileges
away

But is there really any reason not to simply continue those license
classes? That's a much, much better option than freebies or removing
privileges.

No it's not. If we abolish them we can sort out all the subbands.

Why are the subbands a problem?

How would you feel if it were decided to give all existing hams
except Novices a free upgrade to Extra, then have just two classes -
"Limited" (new name for Novice) and "Full" (everybody else)?

73 de Jim, N2EY


I would be OK with that only if the Techs got only a limited licence.

Why would Techs be singled out for a limited license? They have full
privs above 50 MHz.

I
would have no problem with giving Generals a full licence.

By your reasoning, there's no reason to have the Extra, then. Nor its
test.


Correct.

So you're for reducing the *written test* requirements for a full
privileges license.

Bad idea.

Of course, to be
fair you would have to extend that to Techs with old Element 3.

Where ya been, Alun?

Techs with old Element 3 (licensed before March 21, 1987) can get a
General
license *today* with no additional testing. Just show up at a VE
session with
proof of such license, fill out the 605 and pay the VE fee. Instant
General.
And if such a ham can pass the Extra written (might as well try, the
same
VE fee buys that test too), they get an Extra.

Been that way since April 15, 2000.

73 de Jim, N2EY