"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote:

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article t, "Bill
Sohl"
writes:

[snip]

If all 83,000 Advanceds get a free upgrade to Extra, they'll have
access
to
those choice slices and they'll probably increase the QRM level. So
giving
them
a free upgrade *does* take something away from existing Extras.

Jim,

I'm willing to share the Extra sub-bands with a few others.

That's awfully big of you, Carl.

Be careful ... your "not in my sandbox" motives are showing.

Ah, but it IS his sandbox. It is also MY sandbox and, through a
lowering of the qualifications for obtaining an Extra class license, it
happens to be your sandbox.

Like all those Advanced are on the air now. Give me a break.

If they're not on the air, there's no reason to give them upgrades,
is there?

They'll get upgrades, even if they're SKs whose family hasn't
sent in their license for cancellation - so what?

Why should anyone obtain an upgrade without testing?

83,000 advanced today who are either SK, inactive or just
don't see the need to upgrade and you expect even a measurable
increase in QRM because some of them may suddenly start
operating in the Extra only segments.

Then just leave 'em be!

That would require essentially maintaining the status quo, which
is unacceptable.

How so and to whom?

The FCC wants to simplify -

Really?

the ARRL wants to create a viable
entry level class with meaningful HF privs and reasonable power
limits.

After careful consideration of Ed Hare's (personal, not ARRL)
comments on the subject on eHam.net, I (personally, not as NCI)
think it makes the best sense as a one-shot deal as a way forward
to a license/priv structure that makes sense for the future.

So a "gimme" for tens of thousands is what makes sense to you, huh?
You've often written of morse tests as hoops and hazing, preventing
"otherwise qualified" people from entering amateur radio. You vowed that
you'd never support a watering down of written tests. Now you are
supporting a freebie for these thousands of "otherwise qualified"
individuals. "Otherwise qualified" must mean those people who can't
pass a required examination.

YM will, of course V ...

I don't know about mileage, but my views certainly differs from yours.

Dave K8MN

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote:

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article t, "Bill
Sohl"
writes:

[snip]

If all 83,000 Advanceds get a free upgrade to Extra, they'll have
access
to
those choice slices and they'll probably increase the QRM level. So
giving
them
a free upgrade *does* take something away from existing Extras.

Jim,

I'm willing to share the Extra sub-bands with a few others.

That's awfully big of you, Carl.

I haven't heard Carl on the lowest 25 of 80, 40, 20 or 15. Have you, Dave?

Be careful ... your "not in my sandbox" motives are showing.

Ah, but it IS his sandbox. It is also MY sandbox and, through a
lowering of the qualifications for obtaining an Extra class license, it
happens to be your sandbox.

It's *our* sandbox.

Like all those Advanced are on the air now. Give me a break.

If they're not on the air, there's no reason to give them upgrades,
is there?

They'll get upgrades, even if they're SKs whose family hasn't
sent in their license for cancellation - so what?

Why should anyone obtain an upgrade without testing?

That's what I keep asking!

83,000 advanced today who are either SK, inactive or just
don't see the need to upgrade and you expect even a measurable
increase in QRM because some of them may suddenly start
operating in the Extra only segments.

Then just leave 'em be!

That would require essentially maintaining the status quo, which
is unacceptable.

How so and to whom?

The FCC wants to simplify -

Really?

the ARRL wants to create a viable
entry level class with meaningful HF privs and reasonable power
limits.

After careful consideration of Ed Hare's (personal, not ARRL)
comments on the subject on eHam.net, I (personally, not as NCI)
think it makes the best sense as a one-shot deal as a way forward
to a license/priv structure that makes sense for the future.

So a "gimme" for tens of thousands is what makes sense to you, huh?
You've often written of morse tests as hoops and hazing, preventing
"otherwise qualified" people from entering amateur radio. You vowed that
you'd never support a watering down of written tests. Now you are
supporting a freebie for these thousands of "otherwise qualified"
individuals. "Otherwise qualified" must mean those people who can't
pass a required examination.

Required *WRITTEN* examination.

Note also that Carl has repeatedly said here that the current license structure
was just about right except for the code test and the need to beef up the Tech
written because it allows full power on "meat cooking frequencies" (great
catchphrase, btw). All of which made sense if you agree with the anticodetest
arguments. Now, for some reason, there's some sort of *need* to hand out lotsa
freebies. But no one will say why.

YM will, of course V ...

I don't know about mileage, but my views certainly differs from yours.

Having met W1RFI and chauffered him around Philly a few weeks back, I'd really
like to read his reasoning on the ARRL proposal. 'Specially if he won over
Carl. Heck, he might win me over!

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote:

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article t, "Bill
Sohl"
writes:

[snip]

If all 83,000 Advanceds get a free upgrade to Extra, they'll have
access
to
those choice slices and they'll probably increase the QRM level. So
giving
them
a free upgrade *does* take something away from existing Extras.

Jim,

I'm willing to share the Extra sub-bands with a few others.

That's awfully big of you, Carl.

I haven't heard Carl on the lowest 25 of 80, 40, 20 or 15. Have you, Dave?

Nary a peep.


After careful consideration of Ed Hare's (personal, not ARRL)
comments on the subject on eHam.net, I (personally, not as NCI)
think it makes the best sense as a one-shot deal as a way forward
to a license/priv structure that makes sense for the future.

So a "gimme" for tens of thousands is what makes sense to you, huh?
You've often written of morse tests as hoops and hazing, preventing
"otherwise qualified" people from entering amateur radio. You vowed that
you'd never support a watering down of written tests. Now you are
supporting a freebie for these thousands of "otherwise qualified"
individuals. "Otherwise qualified" must mean those people who can't
pass a required examination.

Required *WRITTEN* examination.

Note also that Carl has repeatedly said here that the current license structure
was just about right except for the code test and the need to beef up the Tech
written because it allows full power on "meat cooking frequencies" (great
catchphrase, btw). All of which made sense if you agree with the anticodetest
arguments. Now, for some reason, there's some sort of *need* to hand out lotsa
freebies. But no one will say why.

It must be that these folks are all "otherwise qualified".

YM will, of course V ...

I don't know about mileage, but my views certainly differs from yours.

Having met W1RFI and chauffered him around Philly a few weeks back, I'd really
like to read his reasoning on the ARRL proposal. 'Specially if he won over
Carl.

I had the pleasure of a lengthy chat with Ed at our state convention a
couple of summers back and I enjoyed the experience.

Heck, he might win me over!

I enjoyed our chat, but I'm not banking on his ability to win me over on
this one.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote:
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote:

"N2EY" wrote in message
...

In article t, "Bill

Sohl"

writes:


[snip]


If all 83,000 Advanceds get a free upgrade to Extra, they'll have

access

to

those choice slices and they'll probably increase the QRM level. So

giving

them

a free upgrade *does* take something away from existing Extras.

Jim,

I'm willing to share the Extra sub-bands with a few others.


That's awfully big of you, Carl.


Be careful ... your "not in my sandbox" motives are showing.


Ah, but it IS his sandbox. It is also MY sandbox and, through a
lowering of the qualifications for obtaining an Extra class license, it
happens to be your sandbox.


Like all those Advanced are on the air now. Give me a break.

If they're not on the air, there's no reason to give them upgrades,
is there?

They'll get upgrades, even if they're SKs whose family hasn't
sent in their license for cancellation - so what?


Why should anyone obtain an upgrade without testing?


83,000 advanced today who are either SK, inactive or just
don't see the need to upgrade and you expect even a measurable
increase in QRM because some of them may suddenly start
operating in the Extra only segments.

Then just leave 'em be!

That would require essentially maintaining the status quo, which
is unacceptable.


How so and to whom?


The FCC wants to simplify -


Really?


the ARRL wants to create a viable
entry level class with meaningful HF privs and reasonable power
limits.

After careful consideration of Ed Hare's (personal, not ARRL)
comments on the subject on eHam.net, I (personally, not as NCI)
think it makes the best sense as a one-shot deal as a way forward
to a license/priv structure that makes sense for the future.


So a "gimme" for tens of thousands is what makes sense to you, huh?
You've often written of morse tests as hoops and hazing, preventing
"otherwise qualified" people from entering amateur radio.

The Morse code was keeping tens of thousands of otherwise *unqualified*
people out too!


You vowed that
you'd never support a watering down of written tests. Now you are
supporting a freebie for these thousands of "otherwise qualified"
individuals. "Otherwise qualified" must mean those people who can't
pass a required examination.

I'm "otherwise qualified" to be a neurosurgeon!


- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:

Dave Heil wrote:
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote:

"N2EY" wrote in message
...

In article t, "Bill

Sohl"

writes:


[snip]


If all 83,000 Advanceds get a free upgrade to Extra, they'll have

access

to

those choice slices and they'll probably increase the QRM level. So

giving

them

a free upgrade *does* take something away from existing Extras.

Jim,

I'm willing to share the Extra sub-bands with a few others.


That's awfully big of you, Carl.


Be careful ... your "not in my sandbox" motives are showing.


Ah, but it IS his sandbox. It is also MY sandbox and, through a
lowering of the qualifications for obtaining an Extra class license, it
happens to be your sandbox.


Like all those Advanced are on the air now. Give me a break.

If they're not on the air, there's no reason to give them upgrades,
is there?

They'll get upgrades, even if they're SKs whose family hasn't
sent in their license for cancellation - so what?


Why should anyone obtain an upgrade without testing?


83,000 advanced today who are either SK, inactive or just
don't see the need to upgrade and you expect even a measurable
increase in QRM because some of them may suddenly start
operating in the Extra only segments.

Then just leave 'em be!

That would require essentially maintaining the status quo, which
is unacceptable.


How so and to whom?


The FCC wants to simplify -


Really?


the ARRL wants to create a viable
entry level class with meaningful HF privs and reasonable power
limits.

After careful consideration of Ed Hare's (personal, not ARRL)
comments on the subject on eHam.net, I (personally, not as NCI)
think it makes the best sense as a one-shot deal as a way forward
to a license/priv structure that makes sense for the future.


So a "gimme" for tens of thousands is what makes sense to you, huh?
You've often written of morse tests as hoops and hazing, preventing
"otherwise qualified" people from entering amateur radio.

The Morse code was keeping tens of thousands of otherwise *unqualified*
people out too!

That was Carl's litany some years back and why I trotted it out for use
in this instance.

You vowed that
you'd never support a watering down of written tests. Now you are
supporting a freebie for these thousands of "otherwise qualified"
individuals. "Otherwise qualified" must mean those people who can't
pass a required examination.

I'm "otherwise qualified" to be a neurosurgeon!

....and this one was pointed out to Carl and others here by me some years
back.

The idea of a "gimme" for tens of thousands makes no more sense than
Carl's reversal on his vowed support for tougher written exams.

Dave K8MN