I am starting to believe you now Bruce.

Dan/W4NTI


Dan its what I have been saying all along. I cant see how anyone in there right
mind could say the ARRL is trying to help Ham Radio.

In article ,
(WA8ULX) writes:


I am starting to believe you now Bruce.

Dan/W4NTI


Dan its what I have been saying all along. I cant see how anyone in there
right
mind could say the ARRL is trying to help Ham Radio.

Dan/Bruce:

The ARRL is obviously trying to help itself with their new proposal. I'm
convinced that it is their belief that the new proposal serves two critical
objectives:

1.) It gives away enough operating privileges to the know-nothing, do-nothing,
lazy, no-coder whiners to make them happy,

and, by keeping the 5 WPM code test for Extra,

2.) It hopefully won't offend the likes of the withered, feeble, FISTS-member
geezers who are daily trashing the CW subbands with their numbers games
and their sloppy, indecipherable sending with mal-adjusted bugs.

Don't expect the "Gang of Fifteen" to be very willing to listen to any of the
membership for adjustments to the proposal, particularly the notion of
increasing the Extra-class code speed to 12, 13, or 20 WPM.

73 de Larry, K3LT

Don't expect the "Gang of Fifteen" to be very willing to listen to any of the
membership for adjustments to the proposal, particularly the notion of
increasing the Extra-class code speed to 12, 13, or 20 WPM.

73 de Larry, K3LT

I dont expect anything from them, except more Dumbing Down

What really amazes me is you folks don't know what the real test is for
getting on HF!!!! You have to do it!!! That means really figuring out how
to put up the appropriate antenna, tuning it, tuning and running your rig
properly, ect. You can get all the answers correct on today's exam and
still fail in the real world.

In fact, there have been "hams" here locally that tried for over a year to
"get out" and learned more in that process than they ever learned by
memorizing today's exam questions.

I submit that these IMPROVEMENTS recommended by the ARRL are a good start
and will have more people LEARNING how to get on HF. A GOOD thing. The
bands are FAR less busy than they were 30 years ago. Unless we get more
people into this great hobby, it's gone...

And to really improve HF operations on ham radio...we must get rid of the
archaic mode divisions on each band. I would like to see us have the same
privileges as the rest of the world's amateurs enjoy....or are we not good
enough???

73,
Chuck...K1KW

"Chuck...K1KW" wrote:

What really amazes me is you folks don't know what the real test is for
getting on HF!!!! You have to do it!!! That means really figuring out how
to put up the appropriate antenna, tuning it, tuning and running your rig
properly, ect.

It can't be that hard; after all, hundreds of thousands of CBers
managed to get on 11 meters. Modern rigs don't require much "tuning"
and most newbies tend to buy pre-assembled dipoles or multiband
verticals. The rigs are plug and play with microphones included.

We had a pretty good license structure in the mid '60s. Most folks
started with a (non-renewable) Novice ticket with very limited
privileges to get their feet wet. Then they upgraded to General with
full amateur privileges.

That wasn't good enough for ARRL. They insisted we needed more license
classes and more exams (incentive licensing). FCC bought into it, and
we all had to upgrade or lose privileges. Now, ARRL is cheapening the
value of those higher class licenses they insisted we get.

I figure that in about five years we'll have only one license class,
and that it will require only a single simple multiple-choice exam.
Will that re-energize ham radio? I doubt it.

Art Harris N2AH

"Art Harris" wrote in message
om...
"Chuck...K1KW" wrote:

What really amazes me is you folks don't know what the real test is for
getting on HF!!!! You have to do it!!! That means really figuring out
how
to put up the appropriate antenna, tuning it, tuning and running your
rig
properly, ect.

It can't be that hard; after all, hundreds of thousands of CBers
managed to get on 11 meters. Modern rigs don't require much "tuning"
and most newbies tend to buy pre-assembled dipoles or multiband
verticals. The rigs are plug and play with microphones included.

We had a pretty good license structure in the mid '60s. Most folks
started with a (non-renewable) Novice ticket with very limited
privileges to get their feet wet. Then they upgraded to General with
full amateur privileges.

That wasn't good enough for ARRL. They insisted we needed more license
classes and more exams (incentive licensing). FCC bought into it, and
we all had to upgrade or lose privileges. Now, ARRL is cheapening the
value of those higher class licenses they insisted we get.

I figure that in about five years we'll have only one license class,
and that it will require only a single simple multiple-choice exam.
Will that re-energize ham radio? I doubt it.

Art Harris N2AH

I forsee this latest debacle of the ARRL will result in further damage to
Amateur Radio. Much worse than the failed and flawed 'Incentive licensing'
garbage of the late 1960s.

Dan/W4NTI

"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
link.net...

I forsee this latest debacle of the ARRL will result in further damage to
Amateur Radio. Much worse than the failed and flawed 'Incentive
licensing'
garbage of the late 1960s.

Dan/W4NTI

You have it slightly wrong Dan. ARRL is doing this to
try and fix what they screwed up by Incentive Licensing.
Of course we all know the horse left the barn long ago
and the fat lady from CT has already sung her tune, but the
great Newington publishing company has to do something
or risk appearing redundant.

(looks like Ole Herbie Baby was right about one thing
all those years on 14.313! They are indeed nothing more
than a non-profit publishing company)

William
(ex-Wd4 in the 70's)

(Art Harris) wrote in message . com...
"Chuck...K1KW" wrote:

What really amazes me is you folks don't know what the real test is for
getting on HF!!!! You have to do it!!! That means really figuring out how
to put up the appropriate antenna, tuning it, tuning and running your rig
properly, ect.

It can't be that hard; after all, hundreds of thousands of CBers
managed to get on 11 meters. Modern rigs don't require much "tuning"
and most newbies tend to buy pre-assembled dipoles or multiband
verticals. The rigs are plug and play with microphones included.

We had a pretty good license structure in the mid '60s. Most folks
started with a (non-renewable) Novice ticket with very limited
privileges to get their feet wet. Then they upgraded to General with
full amateur privileges.

That wasn't good enough for ARRL. They insisted we needed more license
classes and more exams (incentive licensing). FCC bought into it, and
we all had to upgrade or lose privileges. Now, ARRL is cheapening the
value of those higher class licenses they insisted we get.

I figure that in about five years we'll have only one license class,
and that it will require only a single simple multiple-choice exam.
Will that re-energize ham radio? I doubt it.

Art Harris N2AH


I hope that I am not particularly out of line here, but I just passed
my technician exam by mostly memorizing the question pool. I happen
to learn best by doing, and while I've been studying morse code, and
can send okay, I cannot receive very well. How much more of a "lazy,
bum, low-brow idiot" can I be if I learn to receive and send code at a
decent speed? (5WPM is so slow, it hurts my ears, by the way. I hate
it. I like 10WPM most, in terms of copy.)

The technician license really isn't a big deal at all. I'm seeing
this SOLELY as an opportunity to get my feet wet, and if I wan't more,
I'll GET more. It only took me three days of reading the first half
of that ARRL book, and memorizing the test pool questions (though I
did miss two). I'm anxiously awaiting my license, and looking forward
to chatting with some folks on a repeater (I have an Icomv8000) And I
*EXPECT* to learn more and more about this hobby by association.

As soon as I get my callsign, I'm going to join the ARRL, and I'm
STILL going to learn morse code, even if they drop it. I happen to
think that it has practical use OUTSIDE of radio, to be honest...
(Lights, etc...) and it's demise *IS* a tragedy. I jumped into this
hobby at age 30, LATE in the game. The three days I've spent studying
to take the test are a testament to my ability to MEMORIZE certain
concepts, and while I'm proud to get to be a ham, I'm not particularly
proud of the means. I will therefore conduct myself in the best
manner possible at all times, and through my sincere intellectual
pursuits in this regard, I will make my license mean more. Not
necessarily YOUR way, I'm sure, but it's MY way.

I made a promise to myself that if I wanted an upgrade to my license,
that I would fully understand all of these critical concepts before
proceeding forward with this hobby. I wanted to get to know the
community, learn by doing, and go from there. I figured I'd find out
sooner rather than later what I wanted out of this hobby. I apologize
for my digression, but I sincerely believe that there are many such as
myself who are interested in learning more about ham radio, AND
putting that knowledge to use. For someone to do any serious DXing,
they will need some kind of help making antennas, and knowing what to
do to make them work the way you want them to. You cannot help but
learn a thing or two when doing this. It's not all for naught.

I would also like to add that until I bought my icom, I have NEVER
touched, or personally seen a ham radio. I do not have an elmer, I
have done every bit of this ALL BY MYSELF, with the help of only a few
books from the ARRL. (I have until July to try and get my General,
which I plan on doing, but... I digress)

I understand the sentiments of you vets out there. The instant
gratification crowd, you can just hear the boom boxes of that rotten
group of "kidz" who're gonna "rock da wavez"... I won't lie to you,
the disrespectful punks and riffraff that are bound to come on the air
and start messing things up for everybody, but they'll eventually get
bored of it. Ham radio *IS* dying as-is. It needs to be energized,
and while I have mixed EMOTIONAL feelings about the "dumbing down" of
the tests (which does cheapen the license much as our public education
system has cheapened the high school diploma, which DID mean something
before...) We'll still have people wanting to participate on field
day, actively mailing out QSLs, etc... And at first you may have a few
idiots get on HF (For God's sake, I've heard MANY an idiot on HF!)
God knows that there are plenty on 2 meters, but I digress.)

I will agree that the HF bands will be inundated, at least initially,
with those that can only be described as "low-brows". But they'll need
money, time, and patience setting up an HF rig, and if they have the
patience to do all that they will at least do one of two things:

a.) Get bored and quit.
b.) Reform themselves, and become good hams.

I guess a provisional c. would be that they'd become a lid, and make
everybody mad, but even a lid (and they're semi-rare, I think) doesn't
generally be a lid on purpose. lol

The worst trait you can see in a ham is one that I'll admit I possess:

Impatience.

I spent a full day setting up my small rig and antenna, learning what
to do, soldering for the first time in my entire life, and I haven't
DARED press that transmit button. It is *KILLING* me that I can't
transmit yet while I'm listening to some of these nets. There's a
vast expanse of information just waiting to be unleased, and a nice,
friendly community that I look very forward to joining. I look forward
to the adventure. I'll do it right from here on in, and while I'm
interested in morse code, I will agree that even 5WPM is a joke... It
*IS* an insult, mostly because it SOUNDS TERRIBLE at 5WPM! I don't
like it, in fact I hate it. 10WPM at LEAST, but I don't make the
rules. I see morse ONLY as a practical thing to know. Not
technologically necessary to ham radio.

We're left with the ultimate reality that this nation is being
inundated with instant gratification generation X, Y, Z, and that ham
radio is *DYING* in America. I wasn't even EXPOSED to ham radio until
I was 25 years old. (I wish I were exposed to it MUCH earlier! I'd
have loved it!). It's been exclusively a money issue that's kept me
from getting a rig set up, so when the money was there, I really
applied myself to pass the tech exam ASAP, and once I get my feet wet,
I've decided...

1.) I'll either go forward full force.
2.) I'll quit, and possibly sell my gear.

I'm pretty sure that I'll choose #1, and to THAT end...

My ultimate goal will be to build my own radio from scratch. Not from
a kit, but from parts that I will have to buy myself. From a
schematic that I will design myself. It's a worthy challenge, and one
that I'm really not afraid of, because the laws of electricity don't
change. All you have is what you have. If something doesn't work,
you have only yourself to blame. haha

Knowing this, though, at first, I will probably put together a kit
radio to start, but my ULTIMATE goal is a homebrewed HF rig. We'll
see how it goes, and I'm sure I'll be posting here from time to time.

I have a very sincere desire to learn, and I want to learn MY way.
I've taken advantage of the current situation, because the situation
is there, and it has enabled me that I CAN learn my way. I'll be the
proudest ham in the world when I achieve my first big goal of putting
my own rig together, and if, Lord willing, I can get in the shape to
do some serious hill climbing and DX'ing, I'll try to win me a field
day contest.

So the means to the end are how important in my case?

Am I wrong to be proud to be a ham now? It's still going to be a
close-knit fraternity. The idiots who will go on the air to jam, and
to make body cavity noises will still be there, but if continued
interest can be generated... I don't see this as a bad thing. (God,
I've only studied code a week, and can send A-Z, 0-9, and some basic
punctuation marks... And that's at 15 WPM, COPYING is another
story..)

Again I digress, and I blither... I hope to catch some of you on the
air someday, and I hope you understand my love and interest in this
hobby is sincere. The blood doesn't get much newer than this. I'm
still waiting for my callsign.

With all respect, and sincere admiration to you vets out there.

73

DJM

"Daniel J. Morlan" wrote


Again I digress, and I blither... I hope to catch some of you on the
air someday, and I hope you understand my love and interest in this
hobby is sincere. The blood doesn't get much newer than this. I'm
still waiting for my callsign.


Dan,

Two things:

Thing #1) With your attitude, you're going to be an asset to the
Amateur Radio service, and Amateur Radio is going to be an asset to you.
I've been a ham for over 40 years, and it just keeps getting better.

Thing #2) Always remember that the inbred world of rrap is not Amateur
Radio, so don't get discouraged by what you may find here.

73, de Hans, K0HB

"Daniel J. Morlan" wrote in message
om...
(Art Harris) wrote in message
. com...
"Chuck...K1KW" wrote:

What really amazes me is you folks don't know what the real test is
for
getting on HF!!!! You have to do it!!! That means really figuring
out how
to put up the appropriate antenna, tuning it, tuning and running your
rig
properly, ect.

It can't be that hard; after all, hundreds of thousands of CBers
managed to get on 11 meters. Modern rigs don't require much "tuning"
and most newbies tend to buy pre-assembled dipoles or multiband
verticals. The rigs are plug and play with microphones included.

We had a pretty good license structure in the mid '60s. Most folks
started with a (non-renewable) Novice ticket with very limited
privileges to get their feet wet. Then they upgraded to General with
full amateur privileges.

That wasn't good enough for ARRL. They insisted we needed more license
classes and more exams (incentive licensing). FCC bought into it, and
we all had to upgrade or lose privileges. Now, ARRL is cheapening the
value of those higher class licenses they insisted we get.

I figure that in about five years we'll have only one license class,
and that it will require only a single simple multiple-choice exam.
Will that re-energize ham radio? I doubt it.

Art Harris N2AH


I hope that I am not particularly out of line here, but I just passed
my technician exam by mostly memorizing the question pool. I happen
to learn best by doing, and while I've been studying morse code, and
can send okay, I cannot receive very well. How much more of a "lazy,
bum, low-brow idiot" can I be if I learn to receive and send code at a
decent speed? (5WPM is so slow, it hurts my ears, by the way. I hate
it. I like 10WPM most, in terms of copy.)

The technician license really isn't a big deal at all. I'm seeing
this SOLELY as an opportunity to get my feet wet, and if I wan't more,
I'll GET more. It only took me three days of reading the first half
of that ARRL book, and memorizing the test pool questions (though I
did miss two). I'm anxiously awaiting my license, and looking forward
to chatting with some folks on a repeater (I have an Icomv8000) And I
*EXPECT* to learn more and more about this hobby by association.

As soon as I get my callsign, I'm going to join the ARRL, and I'm
STILL going to learn morse code, even if they drop it. I happen to
think that it has practical use OUTSIDE of radio, to be honest...
(Lights, etc...) and it's demise *IS* a tragedy. I jumped into this
hobby at age 30, LATE in the game. The three days I've spent studying
to take the test are a testament to my ability to MEMORIZE certain
concepts, and while I'm proud to get to be a ham, I'm not particularly
proud of the means. I will therefore conduct myself in the best
manner possible at all times, and through my sincere intellectual
pursuits in this regard, I will make my license mean more. Not
necessarily YOUR way, I'm sure, but it's MY way.

I made a promise to myself that if I wanted an upgrade to my license,
that I would fully understand all of these critical concepts before
proceeding forward with this hobby. I wanted to get to know the
community, learn by doing, and go from there. I figured I'd find out
sooner rather than later what I wanted out of this hobby. I apologize
for my digression, but I sincerely believe that there are many such as
myself who are interested in learning more about ham radio, AND
putting that knowledge to use. For someone to do any serious DXing,
they will need some kind of help making antennas, and knowing what to
do to make them work the way you want them to. You cannot help but
learn a thing or two when doing this. It's not all for naught.

I would also like to add that until I bought my icom, I have NEVER
touched, or personally seen a ham radio. I do not have an elmer, I
have done every bit of this ALL BY MYSELF, with the help of only a few
books from the ARRL. (I have until July to try and get my General,
which I plan on doing, but... I digress)

I understand the sentiments of you vets out there. The instant
gratification crowd, you can just hear the boom boxes of that rotten
group of "kidz" who're gonna "rock da wavez"... I won't lie to you,
the disrespectful punks and riffraff that are bound to come on the air
and start messing things up for everybody, but they'll eventually get
bored of it. Ham radio *IS* dying as-is. It needs to be energized,
and while I have mixed EMOTIONAL feelings about the "dumbing down" of
the tests (which does cheapen the license much as our public education
system has cheapened the high school diploma, which DID mean something
before...) We'll still have people wanting to participate on field
day, actively mailing out QSLs, etc... And at first you may have a few
idiots get on HF (For God's sake, I've heard MANY an idiot on HF!)
God knows that there are plenty on 2 meters, but I digress.)

I will agree that the HF bands will be inundated, at least initially,
with those that can only be described as "low-brows". But they'll need
money, time, and patience setting up an HF rig, and if they have the
patience to do all that they will at least do one of two things:

a.) Get bored and quit.
b.) Reform themselves, and become good hams.

I guess a provisional c. would be that they'd become a lid, and make
everybody mad, but even a lid (and they're semi-rare, I think) doesn't
generally be a lid on purpose. lol

The worst trait you can see in a ham is one that I'll admit I possess:

Impatience.

I spent a full day setting up my small rig and antenna, learning what
to do, soldering for the first time in my entire life, and I haven't
DARED press that transmit button. It is *KILLING* me that I can't
transmit yet while I'm listening to some of these nets. There's a
vast expanse of information just waiting to be unleased, and a nice,
friendly community that I look very forward to joining. I look forward
to the adventure. I'll do it right from here on in, and while I'm
interested in morse code, I will agree that even 5WPM is a joke... It
*IS* an insult, mostly because it SOUNDS TERRIBLE at 5WPM! I don't
like it, in fact I hate it. 10WPM at LEAST, but I don't make the
rules. I see morse ONLY as a practical thing to know. Not
technologically necessary to ham radio.

We're left with the ultimate reality that this nation is being
inundated with instant gratification generation X, Y, Z, and that ham
radio is *DYING* in America. I wasn't even EXPOSED to ham radio until
I was 25 years old. (I wish I were exposed to it MUCH earlier! I'd
have loved it!). It's been exclusively a money issue that's kept me
from getting a rig set up, so when the money was there, I really
applied myself to pass the tech exam ASAP, and once I get my feet wet,
I've decided...

1.) I'll either go forward full force.
2.) I'll quit, and possibly sell my gear.

I'm pretty sure that I'll choose #1, and to THAT end...

My ultimate goal will be to build my own radio from scratch. Not from
a kit, but from parts that I will have to buy myself. From a
schematic that I will design myself. It's a worthy challenge, and one
that I'm really not afraid of, because the laws of electricity don't
change. All you have is what you have. If something doesn't work,
you have only yourself to blame. haha

Knowing this, though, at first, I will probably put together a kit
radio to start, but my ULTIMATE goal is a homebrewed HF rig. We'll
see how it goes, and I'm sure I'll be posting here from time to time.

I have a very sincere desire to learn, and I want to learn MY way.
I've taken advantage of the current situation, because the situation
is there, and it has enabled me that I CAN learn my way. I'll be the
proudest ham in the world when I achieve my first big goal of putting
my own rig together, and if, Lord willing, I can get in the shape to
do some serious hill climbing and DX'ing, I'll try to win me a field
day contest.

So the means to the end are how important in my case?

Am I wrong to be proud to be a ham now? It's still going to be a
close-knit fraternity. The idiots who will go on the air to jam, and
to make body cavity noises will still be there, but if continued
interest can be generated... I don't see this as a bad thing. (God,
I've only studied code a week, and can send A-Z, 0-9, and some basic
punctuation marks... And that's at 15 WPM, COPYING is another
story..)

Again I digress, and I blither... I hope to catch some of you on the
air someday, and I hope you understand my love and interest in this
hobby is sincere. The blood doesn't get much newer than this. I'm
still waiting for my callsign.

With all respect, and sincere admiration to you vets out there.

73

DJM

No, you are doing just fine. For what its worth I welcome you to the fold.

Dan/W4NTI