And to really improve HF operations on ham radio...we must get rid of the
archaic mode divisions on each band. I would like to see us have the same
privileges as the rest of the world's amateurs enjoy....or are we not good
enough???

73,
Chuck...K1KW

Huh ???? Yepper I would like the Liberty Net right at say 7040 when I
operate QRP . Yes that will make it a real challenge. Maybe we could get
certificates for being able to copy 5 letters in a row. You are absolutely
right Chuck .....I need to hear about someone's gall bladder while I am on
with another CW station ...a real "improvement" for ham radio. Ya know I
also need to hear some foul mouths while I am running the Pactor as I am not
getting enough porno on my e-mail listing. Yep it is archaic all right
....but it does maintain my ham radio sanity if there is such a thing. But
wait I could go out an buy a 1kw amp so I could enjoy my mode of operation
and at the same time be a positive force for hamming by getting into the
retired school teacher's organ next door. Boy this is opening a whole new
world of enjoyment for me to contemplate.

Are there not enough fone frequencies to communicate on? Are not the CW
segments just as dead as the phone segments when the band is out? God bless
you if you want to operate fone ...have a good time but the idea has gone
beyond booting the test to booting the mode. Then I would have to ask the
question why. There must be some pretty deep seated hatred out there of CW
and CW ops. But in the final analysis I guess my love of an elegant, narrow
banded and relaxing mode should give way to the "gall bladder" kws ...to do
otherwise would selfish on my part.

God Bless 73 KI3R Tom Popovic Belle Vernon Pa.

ps in answer to you last question ...we are better for it....

On 20 Jan 2004 23:24:16 GMT, (Len Over 21) wrote:

In article , Leo
writes:

That's one way of looking at it, Jim. To me, it looks like a purely
political move - that is, trying to please the greatest number of
members...and voters...and customers...

400,000 upgraded licences = 400,000 happier ARRL members.
Drop code = some number of happy new HF - using members.
Keep code for Extra licence = a 'tip of the hat' to the 'Extra' class
members, to give them something to be happy about (although keeping
code testing as a requirement for a licence class that provides only
additional phone bandwidth as a perk is pretty odd, I'd say...but it
does make the Extra level licence harder to get - that's what
everybody wants, right?).

The problem is that the 15 old men of the BoD have just
disenfranchised themselves from over 200K Technician class
licensees who will now carry the wonderful class name of
"Novice."

The ARRL has less than 170K members now. The number of
existing Tech class licensees here is greater than that now.
Those aren't likely to become members to support a group that
thinks they are all "Novices."

NOT good PR to attract membership.

True enough - I'd sure hate to give up the title of "Technician" for
"Novice". People would think that I became a Nun....well, some
might....


-and- the big one:

New entry level licence with 100W on HF phone, plus simplified test =
a whole bunch of happy new potential ARRL members = lots more
potential members....and voters....and customers.....

"Customers" they already got. Membership is lagging.

ARRL is down to a measly $12 million annual budget (according
to the IRS forms).

All of these proposals are good news for the manufacturers of ham
equipment, and perhaps for us too - if demand is increased, production
will increase and prices of HF radios might do down!

...and Ten-Tec Orion software might finally be completed...:-)

LOL!


Plus, each one of the above members that got something additional
added to their privileges if this proposal is accepted would have the
ARRL to thank for it. In theory, anyway.

Considering that, following the ITU decision to make code optional
most of the world is moving towards removing the mandatory Morse Code
requirement outright, there isn't much else that they could do without
looking like defenders the status quo, and annoying even more of their
members....and denying them the rights being granted to their fellow
amateur radio neighbours in the rest of the world.

They could have changed the Tech class name to something
they must be thinking of...like "Scum of Radio" or "Not Real
Ham" class.

When the BoD met, they must have arrived with their baggage
intact. Emotional baggage.

Like, for instance, those just north of you have proposed to do - and
that's likely to happen fairly soon, I expect.

I hope that powers-that-be in Canada are with those of us in this
millennium, not the fantasyland of olden days as in the League.

The system up here is different. We are not structured in "classes"
like the US model, per se. There are (at present) two licence
classifications - Basic and Advanced - and a 5 wpm Morse Code
endorsement. Each licence gives the user operating priviliges in line
with their technical knowledge.

"Basic" allows full access to all frequencies above 30 MHz - add the
Morse endorsement, and they have full access to all of the amateur
radio spectrum, including the US Extra subbands O ) . There are
reasonable output power limits, all transmitting equipment must be
commercially built specifically for the Amateur service (no kits), and
they are not allowed to sponsor or act as control operator of a club
repeater. (and a few others).

Pass the "Advanced" test, and these restrictions are removed. You are
assumed to have proven that you have the technical knowledge required
to operate high power equipment safely, or construct (and understand)
your own transmitters, etc. In theory, anyway.

It is possible to hold an Advanced licence without Morse Code - they
are not linked in any way. Because of this, there isn't nearly as
much of the "I'm better than you" mentality here - an Advanced without
code has less operating spectrum than a Basic with code, but he may
only be interested in operating the local club 2-meter repeater -
different goals, different licence. Different attitude.

Our ARRL equivalent, the Radio Amateurs of Canada, has proposed to
retire code completely, and increase the level of knowledge
demonstrated on tests to improve the quality of folks entering the
hobby. An additional level has been proposed - "Intermediate", which
would be the first level allowed HF access here. Testing for this
level would eventually be geared towards specific knowledge required
to operate on HF. I'm not a fan of this one - I'd prefer that if Code
is to be dropped, then drop it and allow those without the Code
endorsement full access to HF. Makes more sense than trying to create
an artificial middle licence - HF really isn't difficult enough to use
to warrant it, I'd say. I figured it out

What will happen is anyone's guess - but there is no rigid class
structure here, and most of the hams that I have spoken to feel that
there won't be any mandatory Morse here for much longer either...that
is just as emotional an issue here as in the US, BTW - but only an
emotional one, all the same. The world is changing, and we have to
keep up!


LHA / WMD

73, Leo

In article , Leo
writes:

On 20 Jan 2004 23:24:16 GMT, (Len Over 21) wrote:

In article , Leo

writes:

That's one way of looking at it, Jim. To me, it looks like a purely
political move - that is, trying to please the greatest number of
members...and voters...and customers...

400,000 upgraded licences = 400,000 happier ARRL members.
Drop code = some number of happy new HF - using members.
Keep code for Extra licence = a 'tip of the hat' to the 'Extra' class
members, to give them something to be happy about (although keeping
code testing as a requirement for a licence class that provides only
additional phone bandwidth as a perk is pretty odd, I'd say...but it
does make the Extra level licence harder to get - that's what
everybody wants, right?).

The problem is that the 15 old men of the BoD have just
disenfranchised themselves from over 200K Technician class
licensees who will now carry the wonderful class name of
"Novice."

Leo,

Lest anyone be confused, the above statement is not correct. It
is in error, mistaken, false, misleading and just plain wrong.

The ARRL proposal wants existing Technicians to get a
free upgrade to General, not a downgrade to Novice.

Direct quote from ARRL:

"The middle group of licensees--Technician, Tech Plus (Technician
with Element 1 credit) and General--would be merged into a new
General license that also would not require a Morse examination.
Current Technician and Tech Plus license holders automatically would
gain current General class privileges without additional testing."

Truth triumphs over error once again.


73 de Jim, N2EY

Harris wrote in
news
Leo wrote:

Harris wrote:
5 WPM for Extra Class is an insult, not a tip of the hat. The Extra
Class ticket grants exclusive 25 kHz CW segments on 80, 40, 20, and
15 meters. These are prime DX frequencies and the proposal doesn't
change that. A higher speed code test for Extra would be more
appropriate.

Oops again!

Being that the requirement was dropped fairly recently to 5 wpm, and
that other countries are dropping code altogether as a requirement,
how could the ARRL justify an increase in speed?

They probably won't. But if Extra is the top class and the only one to
retain a code test, why not make it realistic one? A 5 WPM test does
not demonstrate code proficiency. A 13 WPM test would be a nice "Tip of
the hat." We 20 WPM Extras haven't had much to cheer about in a LONG
time!

Art Harris N2AH

Speak for yourself

"garigue" wrote in
news:q8kPb.109067$8H.228092@attbi_s03:


And to really improve HF operations on ham radio...we must get rid of
the archaic mode divisions on each band. I would like to see us have
the same privileges as the rest of the world's amateurs enjoy....or
are we not good enough???

73,
Chuck...K1KW

Huh ???? Yepper I would like the Liberty Net right at say 7040 when I
operate QRP . Yes that will make it a real challenge. Maybe we could
get certificates for being able to copy 5 letters in a row. You are
absolutely right Chuck .....I need to hear about someone's gall bladder
while I am on with another CW station ...a real "improvement" for ham
radio. Ya know I also need to hear some foul mouths while I am running
the Pactor as I am not getting enough porno on my e-mail listing. Yep
it is archaic all right ...but it does maintain my ham radio sanity if
there is such a thing. But wait I could go out an buy a 1kw amp so I
could enjoy my mode of operation and at the same time be a positive
force for hamming by getting into the retired school teacher's organ
next door. Boy this is opening a whole new world of enjoyment for me
to contemplate.

Are there not enough fone frequencies to communicate on? Are not the
CW segments just as dead as the phone segments when the band is out?
God bless you if you want to operate fone ...have a good time but the
idea has gone beyond booting the test to booting the mode. Then I
would have to ask the question why. There must be some pretty deep
seated hatred out there of CW and CW ops. But in the final analysis I
guess my love of an elegant, narrow banded and relaxing mode should
give way to the "gall bladder" kws ...to do otherwise would selfish on
my part.

God Bless 73 KI3R Tom Popovic Belle Vernon Pa.

ps in answer to you last question ...we are better for it....




It isn't that we don't have enough 'fone' spectrum as you call it, we do.
No, the problem is that we can't operate phone on all the frequencies that
the DX can. This is true on 80, 40, 20 and 15 (30 too, but let's not go
there).

On 40 it is worse, as we have none of the frequencies available in Region 1
(Europe and Africa). This latter problem will eventually be fixed as 7100-
7200 will eventually be worldwide.

As you don't work phone DX I wouldn't really expect you to be aware of
this, much less care, but there it is. I have no more desire than you do to
see any 'gallbladder nets' further down the bands.

"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
link.net...

I forsee this latest debacle of the ARRL will result in further damage to
Amateur Radio. Much worse than the failed and flawed 'Incentive
licensing'
garbage of the late 1960s.

Dan/W4NTI

You have it slightly wrong Dan. ARRL is doing this to
try and fix what they screwed up by Incentive Licensing.
Of course we all know the horse left the barn long ago
and the fat lady from CT has already sung her tune, but the
great Newington publishing company has to do something
or risk appearing redundant.

(looks like Ole Herbie Baby was right about one thing
all those years on 14.313! They are indeed nothing more
than a non-profit publishing company)

William
(ex-Wd4 in the 70's)

Jim,

Thanks - got it!.

The comment that you are referring to, however, wasn't mine - you may
wish to take this issue up directly with its author.

73, Leo

On 21 Jan 2004 02:09:43 GMT, (N2EY) wrote:

In article , Leo
writes:

On 20 Jan 2004 23:24:16 GMT, (Len Over 21) wrote:

In article , Leo

writes:

That's one way of looking at it, Jim. To me, it looks like a purely
political move - that is, trying to please the greatest number of
members...and voters...and customers...

400,000 upgraded licences = 400,000 happier ARRL members.
Drop code = some number of happy new HF - using members.
Keep code for Extra licence = a 'tip of the hat' to the 'Extra' class
members, to give them something to be happy about (although keeping
code testing as a requirement for a licence class that provides only
additional phone bandwidth as a perk is pretty odd, I'd say...but it
does make the Extra level licence harder to get - that's what
everybody wants, right?).

The problem is that the 15 old men of the BoD have just
disenfranchised themselves from over 200K Technician class
licensees who will now carry the wonderful class name of
"Novice."

Leo,

Lest anyone be confused, the above statement is not correct. It
is in error, mistaken, false, misleading and just plain wrong.

The ARRL proposal wants existing Technicians to get a
free upgrade to General, not a downgrade to Novice.

Direct quote from ARRL:

"The middle group of licensees--Technician, Tech Plus (Technician
with Element 1 credit) and General--would be merged into a new
General license that also would not require a Morse examination.
Current Technician and Tech Plus license holders automatically would
gain current General class privileges without additional testing."

Truth triumphs over error once again.


73 de Jim, N2EY

In article , Leo
writes:

Jim,

Thanks - got it!.

I kinda thought you would.

The comment that you are referring to, however, wasn't mine

I know. I didn't see the original post, just your reply. I addressed the reply
to you so you'd know the facts of the matter.

- you may wish to take this issue up directly with its author.

I learned a long time ago that doing so is a complete waste of time. The
author of those mistakes doesn't take correction from those who disagree
with his views.

73 de Jim, N2EY

It isn't that we don't have enough 'fone' spectrum as you call it, we do.
No, the problem is that we can't operate phone on all the frequencies that
the DX can. This is true on 80, 40, 20 and 15 (30 too, but let's not go
there).

Hi Alun .... Got a point there ....I have heard on fone (sic)that some
foreign ops are very happy with this arrangement. I am in agreement that
the 40 situation needed attention. Hopefully this will make things better
for everyone. As for 30 ...well not bad generally but the Espanol pirates,
fishing boats and big signal data do stink up the neighborhood. I know I
know we are secondary users ....



As you don't work phone DX I wouldn't really expect you to be aware of
this, much less care,

No no Alun I do care ...I see the problems that are there are making the
service less enjoyable for all hams. I wish that I had the constitution to
put up with the stuff I hear up band but I do not. This service-hobby is at
the forefront of the idea of manners and procedures maximizing the enjoyment
for all.




but there it is. I have no more desire than you do to
see any 'gallbladder nets' further down the bands.

We collectively Alun have let these problems fester and boil over to the
extent that enjoyment of this service is compromised by what we hear on the
bands today. I would venture to say that a $25 to $50 a year fee for a
ticket would separate the proverbial wheat and chaff. That would give the
feds the resources to properly police the roost but given the present
resolve of the FCC ...oh well ... and the fact that a lot of hams still have
their communion money ..... The idea that we are self policing is just so
much vaporware mantra.

God Bless and good DX there Alun ..73 Tom KI3R

In article lq9Pb.25785$Xq2.14841@fed1read07, "K7JEB"
writes:

Leo wrote:

That makes more sense to me, Alun - I don't see why the ARRL would
propose moving almost 400,000 people to a higher licence class just
because the ITU made morse code testing optional.

You can thank BPL for that. If we can't lick them on the
egress issue, we'll add multi-hundred-thousands of HF ops
to provide a plethora of additional ingress points and let
the BPL system ops assess their network reliability from that.

This must be where I saw that idea! And it makes perfect sense.

I don't think we'll be hearing any protests over this proposal
from Yaecomwood either.

Not at all.

But the amateur market is tiny compared to consumer electronics. Even if
FT-1000s were $1000, how many would Yaesu sell in the USA per year?

One "problem" rigmakers have is that ham gear tends to have a fairly long
useful life. A ten-year-old computer is generally considered to be almost
useless today, even if it was top of the line when it was made. But a ten year
old ham rig may be barely broken in. Going back still futher, not many people
are still watching TVs made in the early '60s, but many 40 year old Drake or
Collins lines are in daily use by hams - not out of nostalgia or technical
inertia, but because they were and are pretty good rigs.

73 de Jim, N2EY