In article , " Stephen Cowell"
writes:

If you ever had to struggle through the period
of no-voice novice, you might never wish that
particular chore on anyone.

I had a no-voice, nonrenewable, nonretakeable Novice back in 1967.

Had a great time with it.

I got my first Novice
in '75, and let it lapse due primarily to the lack
of voice priviliges (and no manuals for the
boatanchors I'd been given). CB was just a lot
more fun.

I've never been on cb. Ham radio seemed like way more fun.

I got my second novice in '89, man, what a
difference! Sunspots were coming on, 10M
was hopping, and I worked for a commercial
radio shop. That's what Ham Radio is all about,
for me.... not hazing, but graduated challenges.

Hazing?

The greatest concern, and one which I don't think
has been addressed in this thread yet, is the fact
that our spectrum is in danger.

It's always been in danger. Other services have always looked
at our allocations and asked why they couldn't have some.

We need more
occupants to help occupy it... and HF voice
priviliges are the only carrot left to put on the stick.

We have 683,000 US hams today. That's about 2-1/2 times
what there were back when I got started in 1967. If the
bands aren't crowded, it's because existing hams aren't
on the air, not because there aren't enough hams.

This is a graying hobby.

Think about why.

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:
In article , " Stephen Cowell"
writes:


If you ever had to struggle through the period
of no-voice novice, you might never wish that
particular chore on anyone.


I had a no-voice, nonrenewable, nonretakeable Novice back in 1967.

Had a great time with it.


I got my first Novice
in '75, and let it lapse due primarily to the lack
of voice priviliges (and no manuals for the
boatanchors I'd been given). CB was just a lot
more fun.


I've never been on cb. Ham radio seemed like way more fun.


I got my second novice in '89, man, what a
difference! Sunspots were coming on, 10M
was hopping, and I worked for a commercial
radio shop. That's what Ham Radio is all about,
for me.... not hazing, but graduated challenges.


Hazing?

There is no qualification that someone, somewhere, somehow thinks is Hazing.


If the proposed plan to upgrade Technicians to General happens, will
not those who test afterward be able to claim that their (presumably)
more difficult test is "hazing"?

I would. If I were a prospective new ham, I wouldn't be thinking about
one-time "adjustments", the history of Ham radio, or anything like that.
I'd hear about the new tests, and be annoyed at the seeming
discrimination or "hazing".

I'd probably call the whole thing an attempt by old time hams to keep
new people out of the avocation. That is what it would look like.

This about time for Bill to chime in with one of those "life is a bitch,
and then you die" comments. After which point I as a prospective ham,
would then apply the arguments he uses against him.


The greatest concern, and one which I don't think
has been addressed in this thread yet, is the fact
that our spectrum is in danger.



It's always been in danger. Other services have always looked
at our allocations and asked why they couldn't have some.


We need more
occupants to help occupy it... and HF voice
priviliges are the only carrot left to put on the stick.


We have 683,000 US hams today. That's about 2-1/2 times
what there were back when I got started in 1967. If the
bands aren't crowded, it's because existing hams aren't
on the air, not because there aren't enough hams.

ahhh, get more people on HF argument. Sorry, that argument doesn't
work, because there is a way to get even *more* people on HF by simply
giving licenses away. Maybe we should look into registration for ham
licenses when we get our drivers license?

And I don't know about others, but when I tune through the bands, there
is plenty to listen to. Now that the cycle is winding down, 75/80 gets
downright crowded in the evenings.

Ludicrous mode on:

Maybe the new influx of Hams can do something about making poor
propagation on 10 meters go away. And what's the deal with 20 meters? It
goes away in the evenings just when I sit down to do some serious
hammin! First thing they have to do is petition the F.C.C. to make it
illegal to have bad propagation........... ;^)

Ludicrous mode off...

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:

N2EY wrote:
In article , " Stephen Cowell"
writes:

I got my second novice in '89, man, what a
difference! Sunspots were coming on, 10M
was hopping, and I worked for a commercial
radio shop. That's what Ham Radio is all about,
for me.... not hazing, but graduated challenges.


Graduated challenges = obtaining a Novice license for the second time.

Hazing?

There is no qualification that someone, somewhere, somehow thinks is Hazing.

As used in regard to amateur radio licensing, hazing may be considered
to be anything that one thinks he can't do or simply refuses to do.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote in message ...

As used in regard to amateur radio licensing, hazing may be considered
to be anything that one thinks he can't do or simply refuses to do.

Dave K8MN

I simply refuse to work French amateurs out of band.

bb

(William) wrote in message om...
Dave Heil wrote in message ...

As used in regard to amateur radio licensing, hazing may be considered
to be anything that one thinks he can't do or simply refuses to do.

Dave K8MN

I simply refuse to work French amateurs out of band.

Do you have a reference of all international band allocations so
that when an Amateur of ANY nationality answers your call, you can
quickly look up that nations's regulations and determine the alidity
of that station's operation?

That's what you're suggesting.

Steve, K4YZ

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message . com...
(William) wrote in message om...
Dave Heil wrote in message ...

As used in regard to amateur radio licensing, hazing may be considered
to be anything that one thinks he can't do or simply refuses to do.

Dave K8MN

I simply refuse to work French amateurs out of band.

Do you have a reference of all international band allocations so
that when an Amateur of ANY nationality answers your call, you can
quickly look up that nations's regulations and determine the alidity
of that station's operation?

That's what you're suggesting.

Steve, K4YZ

No, Steve, I'm not suggesting that at all. Notice that I referenced
one country, and that was France. See above. A French amateur
replied to Dave what the French 6 Meter allocations were, and another
ham on here verified the allocations via a French telecom website.
Its really not as hard as you think it is.

So if you know that Frenchmen are on 6 Meters out of band, do you keep
working them? What if it's a downtown Dar el Salam hazing ritual?

(William) wrote in message om...
(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message . com...
(William) wrote in message om...
Dave Heil wrote in message ...

As used in regard to amateur radio licensing, hazing may be considered
to be anything that one thinks he can't do or simply refuses to do.

Dave K8MN

I simply refuse to work French amateurs out of band.

Do you have a reference of all international band allocations so
that when an Amateur of ANY nationality answers your call, you can
quickly look up that nations's regulations and determine the alidity
of that station's operation?

Silly Willy will never have the problem Steve, he doan know how to put
up antennas so the dx isn't gonna call him.


That's what you're suggesting.

Steve, K4YZ

No, Steve, I'm not suggesting that at all. Notice that I referenced
one country, and that was France. See above. A French amateur
replied to Dave what the French 6 Meter allocations were, and another
ham on here verified the allocations via a French telecom website.
Its really not as hard as you think it is.

So if you know that Frenchmen are on 6 Meters out of band, do you keep
working them? What if it's a downtown Dar el Salam hazing ritual?

(William) wrote in message om...
(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message . com...
(William) wrote in message om...
Dave Heil wrote in message ...

As used in regard to amateur radio licensing, hazing may be considered
to be anything that one thinks he can't do or simply refuses to do.

Dave K8MN

I simply refuse to work French amateurs out of band.

Do you have a reference of all international band allocations so
that when an Amateur of ANY nationality answers your call, you can
quickly look up that nations's regulations and determine the alidity
of that station's operation?

That's what you're suggesting.

Steve, K4YZ

No, Steve, I'm not suggesting that at all. Notice that I referenced
one country, and that was France. See above. A French amateur
replied to Dave what the French 6 Meter allocations were, and another
ham on here verified the allocations via a French telecom website.
Its really not as hard as you think it is.

Sure it is...If we do it for "the French", then why not the
Russians, Poles, Czechs, South Africans, etc etc etc...?!?!

So if you know that Frenchmen are on 6 Meters out of band, do you keep
working them? What if it's a downtown Dar el Salam hazing ritual?

How am I to know from one day to the next what a Frrenchman's
allocations are? Thier government is just as likely as ours is to
change the rules, so without keeping a database of some sort on
EVERYONE'S allocations, how is a prudent American Amateur to know if
the guy/gal he's working is "legit" or not?

Steve, K4YZ

William wrote:

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message . com...
(William) wrote in message om...
Dave Heil wrote in message ...

As used in regard to amateur radio licensing, hazing may be considered
to be anything that one thinks he can't do or simply refuses to do.

I simply refuse to work French amateurs out of band.

Do you have a reference of all international band allocations so
that when an Amateur of ANY nationality answers your call, you can
quickly look up that nations's regulations and determine the alidity
of that station's operation?

That's what you're suggesting.

Steve, K4YZ

No, Steve, I'm not suggesting that at all. Notice that I referenced
one country, and that was France. See above. A French amateur
replied to Dave what the French 6 Meter allocations were, and another
ham on here verified the allocations via a French telecom website.
Its really not as hard as you think it is.

I'll try clearing it up for you again, Willie. I am responsible for
operating my station in spectrum assigned to me. I am in no way
responsible for ensuring that other radio amateurs operate where they
are licensed to be. French amateurs, regardless of amateur band, are
responsible for operating where their licenses permit them to be, using
modes permitted them and using power which their licenses permit.

It has been suggested on numerous occasions that you should take the
matter up with the RAEF or the French PTT. I'll now suggest it once
again. March with your banner held high. Write petitions. Lobby the
French government. Make certain that scofflaw French amateurs are taken
to task by their government.

So if you know that Frenchmen are on 6 Meters out of band, do you keep
working them?

You sit there with your charts and graphs in hopes of a 6m opening to
anywhere, ready to maintain order on the band. I'll operate under the
terms of my license and let authorities elsewhere control their amateur
radio licensees.

What if it's a downtown Dar el Salam hazing ritual?

I've seen downtown Dar es Salaam hazing rituals. You couldn't handle
one.

Dave K8MN