"Steve Robeson, K4CAP" wrote in message
om...
(N2EY) wrote in message
. com...

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message
. com...

There's a lot of negativism in this group about the ARRL proposal.

Also a lot of positivism.

That they are trying to keep things moving from their
perspective, perhaps. But I don't think this requires a whole lot of
rethinking nor does it require any complex bandplanning.

While not as verbose about it, I agree that this "proposal" was
poorly thought out and does not meet any "obvious" need within Amateur
Radio. It's a W5YI-ian like effort to create something new for the
sake of sales/membership.

I disagree! I think it has some good ideas and some bad ideas.

There's good stuff here, Jim, but I'm going to cut to the chase.

On top of all this, the Tech written (Element 2) is full of arcane
stuff like RF exposure calculations, which displaces more basic stuff
that would serve a newcomer better.

I don't think that much of what is "written" is pertinent even if
it were "written" in the next 2 hours. As long as the question pools
are open and the "newcomer" can pick up a verbatim "Q&A study guide",
the tests are relatively irrelevant.

Passing the General written in 1958 was not difficult
at all for anyone with a memory and who spent limited time studying
the AMECO study guide or ARRL study guide which only had
some 5/6 pages of study material for General.

Yes, some "learning" will occur just from reading the question
over and over, but to what legitimate application can THAT kind of
learning be applied?

The Q&As aren't going away. Better to focus effort on expanding the
Q&A pool for things like formiula calculations such that memorizing
the formula...not the answer is the better way to learn.

My "answer" is a letter to the ARRL suggesting that this was NOT
a wise idea and COULD have been made less of a surprise to the Amateur
Community by discussing it first. I'll "cc" that letter to my SM.

What about your Director and Vice Director - or better yet, the entire
BoD? And let 'em know exactly what's good and bad, and why.

Perhaps, Jim, but my take is that the FCC has expressed more than
it's fair share of frustration with the numerous licening strategies
that have been offered, all suggesting that "this one" will be the one
to open the flood gates of new licensees.

I don't think the FCC cares if there is or isn't a floodgate of
new hams. The FCC wants stability over the next decade or
longer. The ARRL proposal would do exactly that...once and for a
long time forward.

Each has produced a momentary road bump followed by a rapid
return to a steady-if-unimpressive growth rate.

If/when the proposal becomes an RM, it'll be comment time......

Ditto.

Me too.

Hope you're keeping warm Jim! It's embarrassing here...I spent
most of the evening with the back door open to let a cool drizzling
breeze pass through the house.

Six more inches of snow last night....ugh.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

"Bill Sohl" wrote in message nk.net...

The Q&As aren't going away. Better to focus effort on expanding the
Q&A pool for things like formiula calculations such that memorizing
the formula...not the answer is the better way to learn.

I think most of us agree that it would be best if FCC took back the
testing process and no longer made the Q&A pool public information.
But it's clear that's not going to happen in any foreseeable future,
for a long list of reasons. (Most of which come down to "money", as
in "FCC isn't going to spend it on tests for hams").

There's also the issue that after 20 years of VECs, FCC would have
to be convinced that the system is failing, *and* that the only way
to fix it was to give the process back to FCC. Ain't gonna happen.

And there's nothing to stop Son Of Bash from doing what the original
did 30 years ago.

On top of all this, suppose that by some miracle FCC *did* take back
testing and test generation. Or maybe farm it out to a commercial
testing firm. What do you think a test would cost? I recall that
back in the '60s, when FCC imposed test fees on hams, the fee was
$9. Which doesn't sound like much until you adjust for inflation. So
it would probably be in the $50-100 range (or more) today. Not the kind
of thing to help our growth - particularly among young people!

Yet no matter how often these facts are brought up, there are calls
to end VE testing. Ain't likely to happen, folks, and even if it did you
might not be real happy with the result.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"N2EY" wrote in message
om...
"Bill Sohl" wrote in message
nk.net...

The Q&As aren't going away. Better to focus effort on expanding the
Q&A pool for things like formiula calculations such that memorizing
the formula...not the answer is the better way to learn.

I think most of us agree that it would be best if FCC took back the
testing process and no longer made the Q&A pool public information.

First, even if the FCC took back the process, the questions would
end up in the public domain via internet sharing, etc.

But it's clear that's not going to happen in any foreseeable future,
for a long list of reasons. (Most of which come down to "money", as
in "FCC isn't going to spend it on tests for hams").

That's second. It just isn't going to happen because there hasn't
been any case made as to why it should. You and others
complain, but there just isn't any examples of gross abuse
or widespread problems. Are there occasional abuses, yes, but
clearly insufficient numbers to warrant even a concern on the
FCC's part.

There's also the issue that after 20 years of VECs, FCC would have
to be convinced that the system is failing, *and* that the only way
to fix it was to give the process back to FCC. Ain't gonna happen.

Agree 100%

And there's nothing to stop Son Of Bash from doing what the original
did 30 years ago.

As I said above...even easier today with the internet.

On top of all this, suppose that by some miracle FCC *did* take back
testing and test generation. Or maybe farm it out to a commercial
testing firm. What do you think a test would cost? I recall that
back in the '60s, when FCC imposed test fees on hams, the fee was
$9. Which doesn't sound like much until you adjust for inflation. So
it would probably be in the $50-100 range (or more) today. Not the kind
of thing to help our growth - particularly among young people!

Agree again.

Yet no matter how often these facts are brought up, there are calls
to end VE testing. Ain't likely to happen, folks, and even if it did you
might not be real happy with the result.

Agree yet again.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

"Bill Sohl" wrote in message ink.net...
"N2EY" wrote in message
om...
"Bill Sohl" wrote in message
nk.net...

The Q&As aren't going away. Better to focus effort on expanding the
Q&A pool for things like formiula calculations such that memorizing
the formula...not the answer is the better way to learn.

I think most of us agree that it would be best if FCC took back the
testing process and no longer made the Q&A pool public information.

First, even if the FCC took back the process, the questions would
end up in the public domain via internet sharing, etc.

I'm agreeing with ya, Bill!

But it's clear that's not going to happen in any foreseeable future,
for a long list of reasons. (Most of which come down to "money", as
in "FCC isn't going to spend it on tests for hams").

That's second.

I say it's first. Which should FCC spend $$ on - Riley or examiners? I say
Riley.

It just isn't going to happen because there hasn't
been any case made as to why it should.

Sure there has. It's self-evident that "secret" tests are
"better", all else being equal. Are they better enough to
get FCC to change? Of course not!

You and others
complain, but there just isn't any examples of gross abuse
or widespread problems. Are there occasional abuses, yes, but
clearly insufficient numbers to warrant even a concern on the
FCC's part.

Not talking about abuse at all. I'm talking about the effectiveness
of different test methods.

There's also the issue that after 20 years of VECs, FCC would have
to be convinced that the system is failing, *and* that the only way
to fix it was to give the process back to FCC. Ain't gonna happen.

Agree 100%

That's not a complaint.

And there's nothing to stop Son Of Bash from doing what the original
did 30 years ago.

As I said above...even easier today with the internet.

Yup. Probably be a whole bunch of little Bashes doing it in far less time.

On top of all this, suppose that by some miracle FCC *did* take back
testing and test generation. Or maybe farm it out to a commercial
testing firm. What do you think a test would cost? I recall that
back in the '60s, when FCC imposed test fees on hams, the fee was
$9. Which doesn't sound like much until you adjust for inflation. So
it would probably be in the $50-100 range (or more) today. Not the kind
of thing to help our growth - particularly among young people!

Agree again.

Yet no matter how often these facts are brought up, there are calls
to end VE testing. Ain't likely to happen, folks, and even if it did you
might not be real happy with the result.

Agree yet again.

"Be careful what you ask for - you might just get it".

73 de Jim, N2EY