Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Old January 29th 04, 01:31 AM
Expeditionradio
 
Posts: n/a
Default We Need a BANDWIDTH-BASED Frequency Plan - NOT Mode-Based.

==WE NEED A BANDWIDTH-BASED FREQUENCY PLAN==
FOR THE FUTURE OF AMATEUR RADIO

Bravo! for the new ARRL proposal in the works for code-free
license restructuring. It is long overdue, and it is a
great step forward!
ARRL: Thank you for all your work...

Please consider that, due to recent radio technology and
the proposed changes to licensing structure, we desperately
need a better frequency plan than the olde "Novice Refarming
Proposal" from the 1990s that was pulled off a dusty shelf.
Instead, we need a "Bandwidth-Based Frequency Plan" for the
next decade or more.

DIGITAL MODULATION IS THE FUTURE
Digital modulation and processing is changing the way we
communicate and coexist in the HF frequency spectrum.
With the multitude of new digital and analog modulation
schemes, including "digital voice", there are compelling
reasons to integrate voice, CW, data, image, and
keyboarding "modes".
Hams want to be able to use existing technology to
simultaneously keyboard, exchange multimedia files,
and talk by voice with each other on the same frequency...
something our present rules prevent on HF.

MODE IS NO LONGER A VALID DEFINITION
Due to technology changes, the old definitions of what
a "mode" is are now blurred beyond recognition.
Existing band/mode rules are stifling creativity.

ARE WE NOT COMMUNICATORS?
One example of how our present plan stifles communication
is by keeping USA amateurs segregated and actually
preventing us from communicating with the rest of
the world on the 40 and 80/75 meter bands.
Hams want to be able to communicate via voice
internationally on the 40m and 80m ham bands.

HF FREQUENCY PLAN BY EMISSION BANDWIDTH - NOT MODE
If we are to continue to advance amateur radio into
the future, we need MODE FLEXIBILITY.
Otherwise, we will be faced with the need to be
constantly generating new proposals to the FCC to
accomodate new technology. The simplest and best
way to solve this problem is to divide the HF bands
according to "emission bandwidth" for better
distribution of spectrum activity.
This will not only encourage new research and
development in modulation techniques, but it will
help amateurs to communicate with each other by
breaking down the frequency/mode/band barriers
which have confounded us on some bands for the
past 40 years.

Here is a better HF Frequency Plan for Amateur Radio in USA.

MODE-BASED HF FREQUENCY PLAN USA

kHz
1800 to 2000 any mode 500Hz bandwidth
1830 to 2000 any mode 3kHz bandwidth
3500 to 4000 any mode 500Hz bandwidth
3600 to 4000 any mode 3kHz bandwidth
5MHz channels - mode 2.8kHz bandwidth
7000 to 7300 any mode 500Hz bandwidth
7075 to 7300 any mode 3kHz bandwidth
10100 to 10150 any mode 500kHz bandwidth
10115 to 10150 any mode 3kHz bandwidth
14000 to 14300 any mode 500Hz bandwidth
14075 to 14350 any mode 3kHz bandwidth
18068 to 18168 any mode 500Hz bandwidth
18080 to 18168 any mode 3kHz bandwidth
21000 to 21450 any mode 500Hz bandwidth
21100 to 21450 any mode 3kHz bandwidth
21350 to 21450 any mode 10kHz bandwidth
24890 to 24990 any mode 3kHz bandwidth
28000 to 29700 any mode 500Hz bandwidth
28100 to 29700 any mode 3kHz bandwidth
28600 to 29700 any mode 10kHz bandwidth

NEW AMATEUR EXTRA - ALL FREQUENCIES - ALL BANDS.

"NEW GENERAL" and "NEW NOVICE" BANDS
ACCORDING TO THE FOLLOWING FREQUENCY PLAN:

kHz
1800 to 2000 GENERAL
3510 to 3600 GENERAL AND NOVICE
3650 to 4000 GENERAL
3700 to 4000 NOVICE
5MHz channels GENERAL
7010 to 7075 GENERAL
7025 to 7075 NOVICE
7100 to 7300 GENERAL
7150 to 7300 NOVICE
10100 to 10150 GENERAL
14010 to 14075 GENERAL
14025 to 14075 NOVICE
14150 to 14350 GENERAL
14250 to 14350 NOVICE
18068 to 18168 GENERAL, NOVICE
21010 to 21100 GENERAL, NOVICE
21100 to 21450 GENERAL
21250 to 21450 NOVICE
24890 to 24990 GENERAL, NOVICE
28000 to 29700 GENERAL, NOVICE


BY YEAR 2010, 30% OF ALL HAMS WILL BE NOVICE OPERATORS
Under the new ARRL proposed license restructuring plan,
the number of amateur radio operators on HF will
increase dramatically. This is good.
We need this to preserve our frequency allocations.
We will see a vast increase in the number of "New Novices".
The new Novice operators will be valuable emergency
communicators, so we need to make room in our bands
for them to communicate.


73---Bonnie KQ6XA
ARRL Member





























..
  #2   Report Post  
Old January 29th 04, 11:27 AM
K7JEB
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Bonnie, KQ6XA, posted:

==WE NEED A BANDWIDTH-BASED FREQUENCY PLAN==


deletia


1830 to 2000 any mode 3kHz bandwidth
3600 to 4000 any mode 3kHz bandwidth
7075 to 7300 any mode 3kHz bandwidth

  #3   Report Post  
Old January 29th 04, 05:29 PM
N2EY
 
Posts: n/a
Default

(Expeditionradio) wrote in message ...
==WE NEED A BANDWIDTH-BASED FREQUENCY PLAN==
FOR THE FUTURE OF AMATEUR RADIO

Bravo! for the new ARRL proposal in the works for code-free
license restructuring. It is long overdue, and it is a
great step forward!


The ARRL proposal has some good points ("NewNovice") but
it also has some bad ones (free upgrades for almost 60%
of existing hams).

ARRL: Thank you for all your work...


What work?

Please consider that, due to recent radio technology and
the proposed changes to licensing structure, we desperately
need a better frequency plan than the olde "Novice Refarming
Proposal" from the 1990s that was pulled off a dusty shelf.


That was also an ARRL proposal. I commented against it to FCC.

Did you?

Instead, we need a "Bandwidth-Based Frequency Plan" for the
next decade or more.


Agreed. But not just for a decade, but indefinitely.

Bandwidth is a better demarcation than the current rules
that limit digial/data modes.

DIGITAL MODULATION IS THE FUTURE
Digital modulation and processing is changing the way we
communicate and coexist in the HF frequency spectrum.
With the multitude of new digital and analog modulation
schemes, including "digital voice", there are compelling
reasons to integrate voice, CW, data, image, and
keyboarding "modes".


WHOA!

What exactly do you mean by "integrate"?

Hams want to be able to use existing technology to
simultaneously keyboard, exchange multimedia files,
and talk by voice with each other on the same frequency...
something our present rules prevent on HF.


They also want to be able to use various modes without
undue interference.

MODE IS NO LONGER A VALID DEFINITION
Due to technology changes, the old definitions of what
a "mode" is are now blurred beyond recognition.


No, they're not. The old rules simply need to be
changed to fit new modes.

Existing band/mode rules are stifling creativity.

ARE WE NOT COMMUNICATORS?


We're amateur radio operators.

One example of how our present plan stifles communication
is by keeping USA amateurs segregated and actually
preventing us from communicating with the rest of
the world on the 40 and 80/75 meter bands.


How? I've worked quite a bit of DX on those bands.

Hams want to be able to communicate via voice
internationally on the 40m and 80m ham bands.


They can! It's done all the time. Look at the results
of the DX contests and DXpeditions on those bands.

HF FREQUENCY PLAN BY EMISSION BANDWIDTH - NOT MODE
If we are to continue to advance amateur radio into
the future, we need MODE FLEXIBILITY.
Otherwise, we will be faced with the need to be
constantly generating new proposals to the FCC to
accomodate new technology. The simplest and best
way to solve this problem is to divide the HF bands
according to "emission bandwidth" for better
distribution of spectrum activity.


Agreed!

This will not only encourage new research and
development in modulation techniques, but it will
help amateurs to communicate with each other by
breaking down the frequency/mode/band barriers
which have confounded us on some bands for the
past 40 years.


? What happened in 1964?

Here is a better HF Frequency Plan for Amateur Radio in USA.


Let's take a look

MODE-BASED HF FREQUENCY PLAN USA

kHz
1800 to 2000 any mode 500Hz bandwidth


Why 500 Hz? That leaves out a number of
digital modes already in use.

1830 to 2000 any mode 3kHz bandwidth


So you would outlaw AM and NFM? Why?

3500 to 4000 any mode 500Hz bandwidth
3600 to 4000 any mode 3kHz bandwidth


You want to widen the 80/75 meter 'phone band
by 150 kHz? Not a good idea!

5MHz channels - mode 2.8kHz bandwidth


Won't work. NTIA will object. It's USB only for now.

7000 to 7300 any mode 500Hz bandwidth
7075 to 7300 any mode 3kHz bandwidth
10100 to 10150 any mode 500kHz bandwidth
10115 to 10150 any mode 3kHz bandwidth
14000 to 14300 any mode 500Hz bandwidth
14075 to 14350 any mode 3kHz bandwidth
18068 to 18168 any mode 500Hz bandwidth
18080 to 18168 any mode 3kHz bandwidth
21000 to 21450 any mode 500Hz bandwidth
21100 to 21450 any mode 3kHz bandwidth
21350 to 21450 any mode 10kHz bandwidth
24890 to 24990 any mode 3kHz bandwidth
28000 to 29700 any mode 500Hz bandwidth
28100 to 29700 any mode 3kHz bandwidth
28600 to 29700 any mode 10kHz bandwidth


I see a pattern here - you want to drastically
widen the 'phone bands and eliminate AM and NFM
below 28.6 MHz. Why?

If the 'phone bands are widened as you propose, many of the
foreign 'phones will go still lower in the band to get away
from American hams calling them. They're already way down in
bands like 40 - and your proposal would push them even further
down, on top of CW and digital QSOs. No thanks.


NEW AMATEUR EXTRA - ALL FREQUENCIES - ALL BANDS.


Nothing new about that - been that way since 1951.

"NEW GENERAL" and "NEW NOVICE" BANDS
ACCORDING TO THE FOLLOWING FREQUENCY PLAN:

kHz
1800 to 2000 GENERAL
3510 to 3600 GENERAL AND NOVICE
3650 to 4000 GENERAL
3700 to 4000 NOVICE
5MHz channels GENERAL
7010 to 7075 GENERAL
7025 to 7075 NOVICE
7100 to 7300 GENERAL
7150 to 7300 NOVICE
10100 to 10150 GENERAL
14010 to 14075 GENERAL
14025 to 14075 NOVICE
14150 to 14350 GENERAL
14250 to 14350 NOVICE
18068 to 18168 GENERAL, NOVICE
21010 to 21100 GENERAL, NOVICE
21100 to 21450 GENERAL
21250 to 21450 NOVICE
24890 to 24990 GENERAL, NOVICE
28000 to 29700 GENERAL, NOVICE


I see another pattern here. You're proposing to
drastically cut down the amount of spectrum
gained by getting an Extra. Why? If anything,
the spectrum gained by upgrading should be greater,
not less.

You're proposing reducing the Extra CW/narrow data spectrum
from 100 kHz to 40 kHz and giving Novices more voice than
Extras have now. No thanks!

BY YEAR 2010, 30% OF ALL HAMS WILL BE NOVICE OPERATORS


How do you know?

Right now there are less than 35,000 Novices out of about
683,000 US hams. That's about 5%. To reach 30%, we'd need
to reach 205,000 Novices in less than 6 years from now.

How is that going to happen?

Under the new ARRL proposed license restructuring plan,
the number of amateur radio operators on HF will
increase dramatically.


How do you know? Where will the 205,000 Novices come from?

This is good.
We need this to preserve our frequency allocations.


Agreed.

We will see a vast increase in the number of "New Novices".


Again - how do you know? And why do you think they'll stay Novices?

The new Novice operators will be valuable emergency
communicators, so we need to make room in our bands
for them to communicate.


So do existing hams and existing modes. And there also need to be
incentives to upgrade.

Dividing the bands by bandwidth rather than content is a good idea.
But your implementation of it will have many bad effects.

A much better plan is to divide the bands into three segments: CW
only, digital, analog voice/image. CW allowed everywhere but
encouraged to stay in
its subband. Division to be about 15-20% CW only, 20-25% digital,
50-60% voice/image. The limitation on digital bandwidth would be about
1 kHz - any mode that fits in a ~1 kHz bandwidth could operate there.
Modes from 850 shift FSK RTTY to some forms of digital voice could be
used in the digital subband, but not any analog voice modes.

Drastically widening the voice subbands will not encourage development
of
digital modes. Indeed, it will do exactly the opposite. Your plan
*rewards*
the use of spectrum-inefficent modes at the expense of
spectrum-efficent modes.

And while I hope we do get lots of new hams, your predictions of 30%
Novices
are wildly optimistic.

73 de Jim, N2EY

ARRL member since 1968
  #4   Report Post  
Old January 29th 04, 10:58 PM
Steve Robeson, K4CAP
 
Posts: n/a
Default

(Expeditionradio) wrote in message ...

MODE IS NO LONGER A VALID DEFINITION
Due to technology changes, the old definitions of what
a "mode" is are now blurred beyond recognition.


You've got to be kidding me...

Existing band/mode rules are stifling creativity.


Bonnie, are you ON the bands at all?

ARE WE NOT COMMUNICATORS?
One example of how our present plan stifles communication
is by keeping USA amateurs segregated and actually
preventing us from communicating with the rest of
the world on the 40 and 80/75 meter bands.
Hams want to be able to communicate via voice
internationally on the 40m and 80m ham bands.


Yeah...That wall full of QSL cards attests to how I've been
unable to "communicat(e) with the rest of the world"...

I have 52 DXCC entities on 75m phone and 87on CW. I have 85 DXCC
entities on 40m phone. I am two shy of DXCC on 40m CW. Not bad for
low power and wire antennas close to the ground.

HF FREQUENCY PLAN BY EMISSION BANDWIDTH - NOT MODE
If we are to continue to advance amateur radio into
the future, we need MODE FLEXIBILITY.


After one reads through this post they will see that ALL you
suggest, in the end, is dropping specific modes by name. The result,
however, is just an expansion of the U.S. phone bands.

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that we can afford to
expand our phone allocations. However YOUR premise is that we enact
your ideas to deter "stifling" of experimentation.

In the long run, you're wedging more efficient narrowband modes
into smaller and smaller subbands to the preference of the less
efficient wideband modes...Specifically, SSB voice.

Otherwise, we will be faced with the need to be
constantly generating new proposals to the FCC to
accomodate new technology. The simplest and best
way to solve this problem is to divide the HF bands
according to "emission bandwidth" for better
distribution of spectrum activity.
This will not only encourage new research and
development in modulation techniques, but it will
help amateurs to communicate with each other by
breaking down the frequency/mode/band barriers
which have confounded us on some bands for the
past 40 years.


All you've done is change the language. The application will be
unchanged.

And the FCC has been absolutely wonderful about accomodating new
technologies.

Here is a better HF Frequency Plan for Amateur Radio in USA.


It's nothing of the sort. All you did was change some language
in order to justify expanding the phone bands.

MODE-BASED HF FREQUENCY PLAN USA

kHz
1800 to 2000 any mode 500Hz bandwidth
1830 to 2000 any mode 3kHz bandwidth
3500 to 4000 any mode 500Hz bandwidth
3600 to 4000 any mode 3kHz bandwidth


All this did was eliminate the opportunity for AM'ers to operate,
and also for others who wish to experiment with whatever new WIDEBAND
modes that might manifest.

5MHz channels - mode 2.8kHz bandwidth


No change here. This is exactly what we have right now.

7000 to 7300 any mode 500Hz bandwidth


No change here. "500hz bandwidth"...?!?! Narrowband data
modes...CW, RTTY, etc.

7075 to 7300 any mode 3kHz bandwidth


You moved the phone bands down to 7075...other than that, no
difference here. Also, you suggest we can't communicate
"internationally", yet the "phone band" goes down to 7030 or
7050...Why, if your intent is to increase interoperability with
Europeans, did you lop it off there?

10100 to 10150 any mode 500kHz bandwidth
10115 to 10150 any mode 3kHz bandwidth


The band here is only 50kHz wide to start with, yet you suggest
we allow phone operations to take up 80% of the band which means fewer
stations on the band at the same time. How is that an improvement?

14000 to 14300 any mode 500Hz bandwidth


No change.

14075 to 14350 any mode 3kHz bandwidth


Again, you moved the phone band down under the guise of deleting
terms of SPECIFIC modes, yet the only mode that's going to move here
will be SSB phone.

18068 to 18168 any mode 500Hz bandwidth


No change here. CW and data, regardless of what you want to call
it.

18080 to 18168 any mode 3kHz bandwidth


Just moved the phone band down again...Do we see a pattern here?

21000 to 21450 any mode 500Hz bandwidth


Yawn.....

21100 to 21450 any mode 3kHz bandwidth


Again...more phone band.

21350 to 21450 any mode 10kHz bandwidth


Why? If you were going to have a 10kHz passband, the lowbands
were the place to do it since that's where most of it exists. This
could only promote FM use here.

Again, why?

24890 to 24990 any mode 3kHz bandwidth


Why no protection for narrowband modes? PSK, AMTOR, RTTY, and
yes...CW.

Might as well just channelize it and wait for Ranger to come out
with a "multimode" radio for it...

Oooops! Pretty much already done!

28000 to 29700 any mode 500Hz bandwidth


Still no change, Bonnie.

28100 to 29700 any mode 3kHz bandwidth


Just moved that phone band down again, Bonnie. Except during
contests, there's ample room all across 10 meters for just about
anything you could want to do already.

28600 to 29700 any mode 10kHz bandwidth


Here you just DELETED wideband capability where it already
exists. This would force existing repeaters to go QRT. Why?

NEW AMATEUR EXTRA - ALL FREQUENCIES - ALL BANDS.


Snip.

"NEW GENERAL" and "NEW NOVICE" BANDS
ACCORDING TO THE FOLLOWING FREQUENCY PLAN:


Snip.

BY YEAR 2010, 30% OF ALL HAMS WILL BE NOVICE OPERATORS
Under the new ARRL proposed license restructuring plan,
the number of amateur radio operators on HF will
increase dramatically. This is good.
We need this to preserve our frequency allocations.
We will see a vast increase in the number of "New Novices".
The new Novice operators will be valuable emergency
communicators, so we need to make room in our bands
for them to communicate.


The Novice Class license should be just for that...Novices. When
one has gained experience and confidence in what they are doing, it's
time to move up. Then they will have more than adequate spectrum in
which to "communicate".

Your bandplan only addresses HF. Ninety-nine percent of
"emergency communications" takes place above 50mHz.

Nice try, Bonnie. You're thinking, and that's good, but the
ultimate result was all you did was expand the phone bands on HF where
very little "experimentation" is going on anyway.

73

Steve Robeson, K4YZ

Steve, K4YZ
  #5   Report Post  
Old January 30th 04, 01:56 AM
N2EY
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) writes:

(Expeditionradio) wrote in message
...

MODE IS NO LONGER A VALID DEFINITION
Due to technology changes, the old definitions of what
a "mode" is are now blurred beyond recognition.


You've got to be kidding me...

Existing band/mode rules are stifling creativity.


Bonnie, are you ON the bands at all?


Steve,

There *is* a valid concern here. Part 97 definitions
do limit the kinds of modes we can use on HF, even
if they are narrow.

For example, we're not allowed
to run datamodes in the 'phone subbands. Not even
narrow-as-heck PSK-31. OTOH, if you can figure
out a way to send voice in a 400 Hz channel, you
have to do it in the phone subbands, even though it's
half the width of an 850 shift FSK signal, which can
be run in the CW/digital subbands.

Want to try out a form of PSK-31 that is, say, 1 kHz
wide but over 1200 baud? Sorry, not legal
on amateur HF/MF below 25 MHz without an STA.
(Might not be legal on 10 - check the rules).

Imagine a mode that is a combination of PSK-31 and
SSB voice, with the PSK carrier where the SSB carrier
would be. Send data and voice at the same time. Interesting?
Yes! Possible? Of course! Legal? No.

ARE WE NOT COMMUNICATORS?
One example of how our present plan stifles communication
is by keeping USA amateurs segregated and actually
preventing us from communicating with the rest of
the world on the 40 and 80/75 meter bands.
Hams want to be able to communicate via voice
internationally on the 40m and 80m ham bands.


Yeah...That wall full of QSL cards attests to how I've been
unable to "communicat(e) with the rest of the world"...

I have 52 DXCC entities on 75m phone and 87on CW. I have 85 DXCC
entities on 40m phone. I am two shy of DXCC on 40m CW. Not bad for
low power and wire antennas close to the ground.


dayum!

HF FREQUENCY PLAN BY EMISSION BANDWIDTH - NOT MODE
If we are to continue to advance amateur radio into
the future, we need MODE FLEXIBILITY.


After one reads through this post they will see that ALL you
suggest, in the end, is dropping specific modes by name. The result,
however, is just an expansion of the U.S. phone bands.


It gets worse...

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that we can afford to
expand our phone allocations. However YOUR premise is that we enact
your ideas to deter "stifling" of experimentation.

I say widening the 'phone bands as much as is suggested is not a good thing
at all.

In the long run, you're wedging more efficient narrowband modes
into smaller and smaller subbands to the preference of the less
efficient wideband modes...Specifically, SSB voice.


Bingo.

Otherwise, we will be faced with the need to be
constantly generating new proposals to the FCC to
accomodate new technology. The simplest and best
way to solve this problem is to divide the HF bands
according to "emission bandwidth" for better
distribution of spectrum activity.
This will not only encourage new research and
development in modulation techniques, but it will
help amateurs to communicate with each other by
breaking down the frequency/mode/band barriers
which have confounded us on some bands for the
past 40 years.


All you've done is change the language. The application will be
unchanged.


Sort of.

And the FCC has been absolutely wonderful about accomodating new
technologies.

Here is a better HF Frequency Plan for Amateur Radio in USA.


It's nothing of the sort. All you did was change some language
in order to justify expanding the phone bands.


And cutting down the incentive to get an Extra. Note how little
additional spectrum the big E gets under this proposal.

MODE-BASED HF FREQUENCY PLAN USA

kHz
1800 to 2000 any mode 500Hz bandwidth
1830 to 2000 any mode 3kHz bandwidth
3500 to 4000 any mode 500Hz bandwidth
3600 to 4000 any mode 3kHz bandwidth


All this did was eliminate the opportunity for AM'ers to operate,
and also for others who wish to experiment with whatever new WIDEBAND
modes that might manifest.

5MHz channels - mode 2.8kHz bandwidth


No change here. This is exactly what we have right now.


No it isn't! We're allowed USB voice *only* - nothing else - because
NTIA says so.

7000 to 7300 any mode 500Hz bandwidth


No change here. "500hz bandwidth"...?!?! Narrowband data
modes...CW, RTTY, etc.

7075 to 7300 any mode 3kHz bandwidth


You moved the phone bands down to 7075...other than that, no
difference here. Also, you suggest we can't communicate
"internationally", yet the "phone band" goes down to 7030 or
7050...Why, if your intent is to increase interoperability with
Europeans, did you lop it off there?

10100 to 10150 any mode 500kHz bandwidth
10115 to 10150 any mode 3kHz bandwidth


The band here is only 50kHz wide to start with, yet you suggest
we allow phone operations to take up 80% of the band which means fewer
stations on the band at the same time. How is that an improvement?


It isn't.

14000 to 14300 any mode 500Hz bandwidth


No change.

14075 to 14350 any mode 3kHz bandwidth


Again, you moved the phone band down under the guise of deleting
terms of SPECIFIC modes, yet the only mode that's going to move here
will be SSB phone.

18068 to 18168 any mode 500Hz bandwidth


No change here. CW and data, regardless of what you want to call
it.

18080 to 18168 any mode 3kHz bandwidth


Just moved the phone band down again...Do we see a pattern here?

21000 to 21450 any mode 500Hz bandwidth


Yawn.....

21100 to 21450 any mode 3kHz bandwidth


Again...more phone band.

21350 to 21450 any mode 10kHz bandwidth


I must have missed this before.

Why? If you were going to have a 10kHz passband, the lowbands
were the place to do it since that's where most of it exists. This
could only promote FM use here.

Again, why?

24890 to 24990 any mode 3kHz bandwidth


Why no protection for narrowband modes? PSK, AMTOR, RTTY, and
yes...CW.


One guess why CW isn't mentioned...

Might as well just channelize it and wait for Ranger to come out
with a "multimode" radio for it...

Oooops! Pretty much already done!

28000 to 29700 any mode 500Hz bandwidth


Still no change, Bonnie.

28100 to 29700 any mode 3kHz bandwidth


Just moved that phone band down again, Bonnie. Except during
contests, there's ample room all across 10 meters for just about
anything you could want to do already.

28600 to 29700 any mode 10kHz bandwidth


Here you just DELETED wideband capability where it already
exists. This would force existing repeaters to go QRT. Why?


No AM on 160, 75, 40, 20....

NEW AMATEUR EXTRA - ALL FREQUENCIES - ALL BANDS.


Nothing new about that..

Snip.

"NEW GENERAL" and "NEW NOVICE" BANDS
ACCORDING TO THE FOLLOWING FREQUENCY PLAN:


Snip.

BY YEAR 2010, 30% OF ALL HAMS WILL BE NOVICE OPERATORS


How? To reach that level, we'd need about 30,000 new hams per year for
the next six years *and* no upgrades of any of them. If half of them go
for General of Extra, we need 60,000 per year...

no wait, if we get that many, the 30% number gets bigger, so we need
even more newcomers...

Under the new ARRL proposed license restructuring plan,
the number of amateur radio operators on HF will
increase dramatically. This is good.
We need this to preserve our frequency allocations.
We will see a vast increase in the number of "New Novices".


That's what they said would happen when the Tech lost its code
test. We saw a surge for a while, then back to almost the same
level of newcomers as before.

Check the growth of the entire ARS from 1991 to 2000, and compare
it to the growth from 1982 to 1991.

The new Novice operators will be valuable emergency
communicators, so we need to make room in our bands
for them to communicate.


The Novice Class license should be just for that...Novices. When
one has gained experience and confidence in what they are doing, it's
time to move up. Then they will have more than adequate spectrum in
which to "communicate".


Bingo.

Your bandplan only addresses HF. Ninety-nine percent of
"emergency communications" takes place above 50mHz.

Nice try, Bonnie. You're thinking, and that's good, but the
ultimate result was all you did was expand the phone bands on HF where
very little "experimentation" is going on anyway.

There's more to it than that, Steve, but the proposed solution creates
more problems than it solves.

I really do hope we get lots of newcomers, but 30% Novices in 6 years
is kinda optimistic.

73 de Jim, N2EY


  #6   Report Post  
Old January 30th 04, 10:52 PM
Steve Robeson, K4CAP
 
Posts: n/a
Default

(N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article ,

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) writes:


Imagine a mode that is a combination of PSK-31 and
SSB voice, with the PSK carrier where the SSB carrier
would be. Send data and voice at the same time. Interesting?
Yes! Possible? Of course! Legal? No.


After reassessing the idea in these terms, I stand corrected.

I have changed my mind. This DOES make more sense.

I have 52 DXCC entities on 75m phone and 87 on CW. I have 85 DXCC
entities on 40m phone. I am two shy of DXCC on 40m CW. Not bad for
low power and wire antennas close to the ground.


dayum!


Tain't nuttin...My best friend (K4YJ) has numerous single-band
DXCC, WAZ, 5BWAZ, etc, with nothing mroe than the driven element of an
old butterfly beam in the attic of his townhouse in suburban Atlanta.
I thought I was doing pretty good till the shoeboxes full of QSL's at
his shack fell on me! =)

HF FREQUENCY PLAN BY EMISSION BANDWIDTH - NOT MODE
If we are to continue to advance amateur radio into
the future, we need MODE FLEXIBILITY.


After one reads through this post they will see that ALL you
suggest, in the end, is dropping specific modes by name. The result,
however, is just an expansion of the U.S. phone bands.


It gets worse...

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that we can afford to
expand our phone allocations. However YOUR premise is that we enact
your ideas to deter "stifling" of experimentation.

I say widening the 'phone bands as much as is suggested is not a good thing
at all.

In the long run, you're wedging more efficient narrowband modes
into smaller and smaller subbands to the preference of the less
efficient wideband modes...Specifically, SSB voice.


Bingo.

Otherwise, we will be faced with the need to be
constantly generating new proposals to the FCC to
accomodate new technology. The simplest and best
way to solve this problem is to divide the HF bands
according to "emission bandwidth" for better
distribution of spectrum activity.
This will not only encourage new research and
development in modulation techniques, but it will
help amateurs to communicate with each other by
breaking down the frequency/mode/band barriers
which have confounded us on some bands for the
past 40 years.


All you've done is change the language. The application will be
unchanged.


Sort of.


As I said, I've changed my mind. This is a good idea.

5MHz channels - mode 2.8kHz bandwidth


No change here. This is exactly what we have right now.


No it isn't! We're allowed USB voice *only* - nothing else - because
NTIA says so.


And that's all they're likely to say, unless there is a proposal
put forth that makes it more efficient to do so.

My idea for 60 meters?

Limit ALL Amateur access to this band to persons participating in
ARES, RACES or other RECOGNIZED emergency service organization or
agency. This would include drills and nets of both Amateur and
non-Amateur organizations for practice purposes.

Takes steps to enact NTIA regulation changes to make this the
defacto liasion band between disaster relief agencies, both civil and
military.

The band here is only 50kHz wide to start with, yet you suggest
we allow phone operations to take up 80% of the band which means fewer
stations on the band at the same time. How is that an improvement?


It isn't.


And I thought it was just me! =)

24890 to 24990 any mode 3kHz bandwidth


Why no protection for narrowband modes? PSK, AMTOR, RTTY, and
yes...CW.


One guess why CW isn't mentioned...


=) Do I get THREE guesses...?!?!

There's more to it than that, Steve, but the proposed solution creates
more problems than it solves.

I really do hope we get lots of newcomers, but 30% Novices in 6 years
is kinda optimistic.


Waaaaaaaaaaaay optimistic, I'd say...Hopeful, but optimistic.

73

Steve, K4YZ
  #7   Report Post  
Old January 31st 04, 07:55 PM
N2EY
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) writes:


Imagine a mode that is a combination of PSK-31 and
SSB voice, with the PSK carrier where the SSB carrier
would be. Send data and voice at the same time. Interesting?
Yes! Possible? Of course! Legal? No.


After reassessing the idea in these terms, I stand corrected.

I have changed my mind. This DOES make more sense.


Only if it's done right!

I have 52 DXCC entities on 75m phone and 87 on CW. I have 85 DXCC
entities on 40m phone. I am two shy of DXCC on 40m CW. Not bad for
low power and wire antennas close to the ground.


dayum!


Tain't nuttin...My best friend (K4YJ) has numerous single-band
DXCC, WAZ, 5BWAZ, etc, with nothing mroe than the driven element of an
old butterfly beam in the attic of his townhouse in suburban Atlanta.
I thought I was doing pretty good till the shoeboxes full of QSL's at
his shack fell on me! =)


Gotta get me one o' them K4Yx calls...

HF FREQUENCY PLAN BY EMISSION BANDWIDTH - NOT MODE
If we are to continue to advance amateur radio into
the future, we need MODE FLEXIBILITY.

After one reads through this post they will see that ALL you
suggest, in the end, is dropping specific modes by name. The result,
however, is just an expansion of the U.S. phone bands.


It gets worse...

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that we can afford to
expand our phone allocations. However YOUR premise is that we enact
your ideas to deter "stifling" of experimentation.

I say widening the 'phone bands as much as is suggested is not a good thing
at all.

In the long run, you're wedging more efficient narrowband modes
into smaller and smaller subbands to the preference of the less
efficient wideband modes...Specifically, SSB voice.


Bingo.

Otherwise, we will be faced with the need to be
constantly generating new proposals to the FCC to
accomodate new technology. The simplest and best
way to solve this problem is to divide the HF bands
according to "emission bandwidth" for better
distribution of spectrum activity.
This will not only encourage new research and
development in modulation techniques, but it will
help amateurs to communicate with each other by
breaking down the frequency/mode/band barriers
which have confounded us on some bands for the
past 40 years.

All you've done is change the language. The application will be
unchanged.


Sort of.


As I said, I've changed my mind. This is a good idea.


Only if it's done so as to not simply crush the CW/digital folks under a wave
of SSB. The basic concept proposed is OK, the implementation is awful.

5MHz channels - mode 2.8kHz bandwidth

No change here. This is exactly what we have right now.


No it isn't! We're allowed USB voice *only* - nothing else - because
NTIA says so.


And that's all they're likely to say, unless there is a proposal
put forth that makes it more efficient to do so.


Too soon to do that. We've had 60 m for how long? How many hams use 60?

My idea for 60 meters?

Limit ALL Amateur access to this band to persons participating in
ARES, RACES or other RECOGNIZED emergency service organization or
agency. This would include drills and nets of both Amateur and
non-Amateur organizations for practice purposes.


That's a step backwards. Would generate less interest in the band.

Takes steps to enact NTIA regulation changes to make this the
defacto liasion band between disaster relief agencies, both civil and
military.


Possible. In any event, we'd have to match their modes!

The band here is only 50kHz wide to start with, yet you suggest
we allow phone operations to take up 80% of the band which means fewer
stations on the band at the same time. How is that an improvement?


It isn't.


And I thought it was just me! =)


It isn't.

24890 to 24990 any mode 3kHz bandwidth

Why no protection for narrowband modes? PSK, AMTOR, RTTY, and
yes...CW.


One guess why CW isn't mentioned...


=) Do I get THREE guesses...?!?!


Do you need more than one? ;-)

There's more to it than that, Steve, but the proposed solution creates
more problems than it solves.

I really do hope we get lots of newcomers, but 30% Novices in 6 years
is kinda optimistic.


Waaaaaaaaaaaay optimistic, I'd say...Hopeful, but optimistic.

Let's be wildly optimistic and say the proposal results in 40,000 newcomers per
year. Let's also say that each year 30,000 (about 4%) of those licensed today
drop out.

Then in six years we'll have 60,000 more hams than today - about 744,000. Of
these, 240,000 will have joined in the intervening 6 years. That's about 30% -
but *only* if none of the newcomers comes in as anything but a Novice, and
*only* if not one of them upgrades!

73 de Jim, N2EY
  #8   Report Post  
Old February 1st 04, 01:52 AM
Expeditionradio
 
Posts: n/a
Default

An updated version of the entire article "A Bandwidth-Based Frequency Plan", is
no available on the web at:

http://www.qsl.net/kq6xa/freqplan/

Please refer to the new updated color chart of the frequency plan.

It equitably distributes the space within the allocated band so that
approximately the same number of narrowband 500Hz signals vs wider bandwidth
signals can share the precious spectrum resources. Keep in mind that the plan
is mode-neutral. If you can use technology to shoehorn a voice into 500Hz, then
you can transmit it anywhere in the band. You may laugh, but my experience
working with commercial DSP digital modulation systems proves to me that it can
happen in Amateur Radio.

In our present mode-based system in USA, we have a lot of nearly-dormant band
segments. When the number of HF operators doubles overnight, we will no longer
have the luxury to waste spectrum as we have in the past.

I would like to thank everyone who has contributed with suggestions and
constructive criticism during the development of the plan.

The article and band chart is now on the web at:
http://www.qsl.net/kq6xa/freqplan/

73---Bonnie KQ6XA
  #9   Report Post  
Old February 1st 04, 06:07 PM
Brian Kelly
 
Posts: n/a
Default

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message om...


The Novice Class license should be just for that...Novices. When
one has gained experience and confidence in what they are doing, it's
time to move up. Then they will have more than adequate spectrum in
which to "communicate".


And many of them will be perfectly content to remain Novices
"forever".

Your bandplan only addresses HF. Ninety-nine percent of
"emergency communications" takes place above 50mHz.


Amen. What little HF emergency-related ham comms actually do take
place are not emergency comms, they're post-disaster H&W comms.

Nice try, Bonnie. You're thinking, and that's good, but the
ultimate result was all you did was expand the phone bands on HF where
very little "experimentation" is going on anyway.


There's virtually NO new-mode experimentation going on anywhere in any
ham bands. We have high bands where all sorts of "multimedia" wideband
ops are already quite legal. But all we hear is the talk, the walk
simply isn't happening. Why would it be any different on the HF
bands??

The concept of reshuffling the whole deck to "promote experimentation"
has been around for eons, it's a cyclic refrain which pops up every
few years and here's the current iteration.

The problem with "new modes" has nothing to do with the regs,
allowable bandwidths or any of the rest of the usual micro-managed
"grand plans". It's a MARKETING problem, pure and simple.

73

Steve Robeson, K4YZ


w3rv
Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Phase frequency Detector Deepthi Homebrew 48 June 3rd 04 12:01 AM
BETTER HF FREQUENCY PLAN for AMATEUR RADIO Expeditionradio Policy 3 January 27th 04 10:50 PM
Drake TR-3 transceiver synthesizer upgrade Gene Gardner Homebrew 2 January 15th 04 02:17 AM
Drake TR-3 transceiver synthesizer upgrade Gene Gardner Homebrew 0 January 13th 04 05:28 PM
Low reenlistment rate charlesb Policy 54 September 18th 03 01:57 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:11 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 RadioBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Radio"

 

Copyright © 2017