In article ,
(William) writes:

Billy:

Not hardly. Young Miss Clauson bears the unfortunate burden of being a
New Age, Dumbed-Down "Nickle" Extra.

Larry, you're so quick to tear down the achievements of a child.

Billy:

Point taken, and I offer all appropriate apologies to Miss Clauson.
However, her achievement, while a fairly notable one ***for a child,***
is no longer noteworthy for anyone over the age of, say, 10 years,
and certainly a meaningless one for an adult. I'd go farther to say
that the the amateur radio licensing requirements of the time when
I was licensed (early '80's) were nothing that could not be easily
achieved by the typical high-school student, even though there were,
in fact, some kids in the single-digit ages who were getting Extra with
the support of their ham parents.

Mattie Clauson's achievement only points accusingly to the fact that
present amateur radio licensing requirements are "dumbed-down" to
such an unreasonably low level that even a 7-year old can attain an
Amateur Extra-class license. And while the novelty of a 7-year old
Extra is certainly "news" in the Amateur Radio community, it does
not point to a secure future for our hobby/service. One must keep in
mind that she had the support of a mother who is also an Extra-class
licensee, and young Mattie was undoubtedly "pushed" along the
licensing process, whether Mrs. Clauson will admit to that or not.
Any of Mattie's young peers, without the support of a licensed parent,
and the material support of a functional station in their home, would
not likely achieve the same results. About the best we can hope for
is that other ham parents will take similar steps to induce their
children to become licensed, but that's about as far as it can go
until they become adults, with their own financial resources and the
adult prerogatives that go with it.

About the best face I can put on this is that young Mattie now has
the rest of her life to "grow" into the hobby. Hopefully, over the
years, she will acquire technical knowledge and operating skills which
will become equivalent to her Amateur Extra status. As of now,
however, she is more of a stunt than the real thing. I have no
doubt that when asked to engage in even a fairly low-level discussion
of technical and operating subjects, she will not be able to give
any reasonable accounting of herself, beyond perhaps the simple
recitation of answers to the exam questions. The news articles
make no mention of her on-the-air involvement in CW or digital
modes, just the fact that she likes HF/SSB phone. Big deal -- a
7-year old who can push a button and talk! I'm sure she can use
a telephone as well! But can she solder a PL-259 onto a piece of
LMR 400 Coax? Can she build a dipole for 40-meters? Can she
set up a Field Day station on her own? Can she build an interface
so she can use PSK-31 and other digital modes on her parents'
computer? Does she even know which end of the soldering iron gets
hot? I have my doubts about all of the above, and I would think
that these should be the minimum skill requirements for ANY
amateur radio license.

Again, none of Mattie's inadequacies are her fault, she is just
the product of her parent's dreams. But I do not consider her
to be my "equal" as an Amateur Extra in any but the most
rudimentary aspects -- those being that she has the ticket and the
privileges. I had fourteen years of experience as an electronics
hobbyist, project builder, and SWL before I ever got my Novice.
As a result, I progressed to Extra at what was, at the time a
notably rapid pace. Anyway, I look forward to working Mattie
someday in CW or one of the digital modes. I just hope I get
the chance, since I will not likely work her on HF phone.

73 de Larry, K3LT

ospam (Larry Roll K3LT) wrote in message ...
I'd go farther to say
that the the amateur radio licensing requirements of the time when
I was licensed (early '80's) were nothing that could not be easily
achieved by the typical high-school student, even though there were,
in fact, some kids in the single-digit ages who were getting Extra with
the support of their ham parents.

The former record holder was an 8 year old in 3rd grade when she
got her Extra.

Back in the days of secret pools, essay and draw-a-diagram exams and
before the Novice or Tech existed, a local ham earned her Class B
license at the FCC office in Philly - a few days after her 10th
birthday.

Mattie Clauson's

Why not use her callsign, Larry?

achievement only points accusingly to the fact that
present amateur radio licensing requirements are "dumbed-down" to
such an unreasonably low level that even a 7-year old can attain an
Amateur Extra-class license.

That's one way to look at it. The way I prefer to look at it is that a
bright and motivated young child set herself a goal and achieved it.

And while the novelty of a 7-year old
Extra is certainly "news" in the Amateur Radio community, it does
not point to a secure future for our hobby/service.

Why not? I don't see anything wrong with young people, or females,
getting
licenses. In fact, I think that sort of thing is just what ham radio
needs *more* of!

One must keep in
mind that she had the support of a mother who is also an Extra-class
licensee,

And a father, and a grandmother, and a great-grandfather who were/are
hams. Why single out her mother?

and young Mattie was undoubtedly "pushed" along the
licensing process, whether Mrs. Clauson will admit to that or not.

Do you know the family? Or is this just a rationalization?

Any of Mattie's young peers, without the support of a licensed parent,
and the material support of a functional station in their home, would
not likely achieve the same results.

So what? Part of what healthy families *DO* is support each other's
needs
and interests. In that family, it's clear that ham radio is a family
thing,
not something one family member does in seclusion from the rest.
That's a
good thing. It brings families together, crosses generational
barriers, helps
build a level of education, maturity and understanding that are
greatly needed.

And there is no better way to help a child learn than to get them
interested in the subject. Geography? Time zones? Math, science,
technology? An interest in ham radio helps with all of those.

(About the best we can hope for
is that other ham parents will take similar steps to induce their
children to become licensed, but that's about as far as it can go
until they become adults, with their own financial resources and the
adult prerogatives that go with it.

It's simply a matter of *SUPPORTING* a child's interests. I know
families that are very musically-oriented, and if a child expresses
any interest in music, an instrument and lessons are provided. Not
pushed - supported. Would you expect a
7 year old to buy her own piano and pay for her own lessons?

I never got any help in the ham radio area from my folks. So I was
delayed a few years in getting started. That doesn't mean other young
hams shouldn't have family support.


About the best face I can put on this is that young Mattie now has
the rest of her life to "grow" into the hobby. Hopefully, over the
years, she will acquire technical knowledge and operating skills which
will become equivalent to her Amateur Extra status.

She got 4 wrong on Element 4. How many did you get wrong on yours?

As of now,
however, she is more of a stunt than the real thing.

How do you know?

I have no
doubt that when asked to engage in even a fairly low-level discussion
of technical and operating subjects, she will not be able to give
any reasonable accounting of herself, beyond perhaps the simple
recitation of answers to the exam questions.

You might be surprised.

And even if true, so what? The license test is the beginning, not the
end, of learning.

The news articles
make no mention of her on-the-air involvement in CW or digital
modes, just the fact that she likes HF/SSB phone.

So? I thought I saw a mention of packet, btw.

Big deal -- a
7-year old who can push a button and talk! I'm sure she can use
a telephone as well!

What would be adequate proof of competency, Larry?

But can she solder a PL-259 onto a piece of
LMR 400 Coax? Can she build a dipole for 40-meters?

Maybe. Neither of those things are on the test.

Tell ya what, Larry, I'll fill a box with parts and you can come over
and build afunctioning ham rig out of them. No instructions, no
elmers, just parts and a book or two. I did it when I was 13. I doubt
you could do it, Larry.

Can she
set up a Field Day station on her own? Can she build an interface
so she can use PSK-31 and other digital modes on her parents'
computer? Does she even know which end of the soldering iron gets
hot? I have my doubts about all of the above, and I would think
that these should be the minimum skill requirements for ANY
amateur radio license.

Why? None of that has ever been required before.

Again, none of Mattie's inadequacies are her fault, she is just
the product of her parent's dreams.

Nonsense, Larry. She's an individual. Kids are not robots.

But I do not consider her
to be my "equal" as an Amateur Extra

Y'know, the irony is that by making such a statement, you prove that
*you* are not up to being *her* equal.

in any but the most
rudimentary aspects -- those being that she has the ticket and the
privileges.

What if there are things she can do better than you?

I had fourteen years of experience as an electronics
hobbyist, project builder, and SWL before I ever got my Novice.

Well, ya got me beat, 'cause I wasn't even alive 14 years before I got
mine.

As a result, I progressed to Extra at what was, at the time a
notably rapid pace.

There are folks who walk into a test session with no ham license and
walk out with an Extra. That was going on before the VE system, too.
The barely-10-year-old I mentioned above had to do 13 wpm sending and
receiving plus the old Class B/General written.

Anyway, I look forward to working Mattie
someday in CW or one of the digital modes. I just hope I get
the chance, since I will not likely work her on HF phone.

Larry, somehow I think that if she saw your posts she might not want
to talk to you......

I don't know whether a particular ham is my "equal" or not. In some
ways I'm probably better, and in other ways the other ham may be
better. Unless we're in a mutually-agreed upon competition, I really
don't care.

I say congratulations to a new Extra and her family. We need more of
that sort of thing.

73 de Jim, N2EY

ospam (Larry Roll K3LT) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(William) writes:

Billy:

Not hardly. Young Miss Clauson bears the unfortunate burden of being a
New Age, Dumbed-Down "Nickle" Extra.

Larry, you're so quick to tear down the achievements of a child.

Billy:

Point taken, and I offer all appropriate apologies to Miss Clauson.
However, her achievement, while a fairly notable one ***for a child,***
is no longer noteworthy for anyone over the age of, say, 10 years,
and certainly a meaningless one for an adult.

Larrah, at what age did you pass the Extra exam elements?

In article , ospam
(Larry Roll K3LT) writes:

In article ,
(William) writes:


(N2EY) wrote in message
e.com...
Tech at 5 years old
General at 6
Extra at 7

http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/29/1/?nc=1

73 de Jim, N2EY

I think you've finally found Larry's equal.

Billy:

Not hardly. Young Miss Clauson bears the unfortunate burden of being a
New Age, Dumbed-Down "Nickle" Extra. I got my Extra in 1983, and was
code tested at 20 WPM at the FCC Field Office in Baltimore. Moreover,
I learned my electrical theory from years of self-study as an avid
electronics
hobbyist, built dozens of homebrew and kit projects, and spent years as
an avid shortwave listener. I did all of this without the benefit of parents.

A wonderful, self-taught radio orphan...

who were amateur radio operators, and almost no exposure to other hams
as a result. Young Mattie has an Extra-class ticket, and the same privileges
as I do, but that's where our "equality" ends. She has to melt quite a few
pounds of 60/40 rosin-core, and make several thousand CW and digital
QSO's, to get close to me!

Larrah, NOBODY is as good as you...by your own definition.

Are you electronically connected here and formerly on FIDONET
BECAUSE no one could "come close to you?"

Try regular bathing. It might help.

LHA / WMD

In article ,
(Len Over 21) writes:


who were amateur radio operators, and almost no exposure to other hams
as a result. Young Mattie has an Extra-class ticket, and the same
privileges
as I do, but that's where our "equality" ends. She has to melt quite a few
pounds of 60/40 rosin-core, and make several thousand CW and digital
QSO's, to get close to me!

Larrah, NOBODY is as good as you...by your own definition.

Lennie:

Yup -- there are many who are a lot better. Sorry, but when we're
talking about amateur radio operators, you're not one of them!

Literally.

Are you electronically connected here and formerly on FIDONET
BECAUSE no one could "come close to you?"

Uh, no -- mainly because I have a computer with a modem! I'm sort of
surprised that you didn't know how that worked!

Try regular bathing. It might help.

Bathing my computers? Now that you mention it, they are a bit dusty...
but I doubt that tossing them into the bathtub would do them any good.

(Oooops, guess I just left you an opening you can drive a Kenworth with
a 53' trailer through! Oh, well -- you need all the help you can get!)

73 de Larry, K3LT

In article , ospam
(Larrah TyRoll the Wonder Ham) writes:

In article ,
(Len Over 21) writes:

who were amateur radio operators, and almost no exposure to other hams
as a result. Young Mattie has an Extra-class ticket, and the same
privileges
as I do, but that's where our "equality" ends. She has to melt quite a few
pounds of 60/40 rosin-core, and make several thousand CW and digital
QSO's, to get close to me!

Larrah, NOBODY is as good as you...by your own definition.

Lennie:

Yup -- there are many who are a lot better. Sorry, but when we're
talking about amateur radio operators, you're not one of them!

Literally.

No kidding? You got soma come loud ratings in college for all
that reasoning? Did you get a brain cell graft or something.

Here's a Clue, bus driver: The FCC doesn't require a single
commissioner or staff to hold amateur radio licenses in order to
MAKE the amateur radio regulations or enforce them.

Are you electronically connected here and formerly on FIDONET
BECAUSE no one could "come close to you?"

Uh, no -- mainly because I have a computer with a modem! I'm sort of
surprised that you didn't know how that worked!

I'm surprised you know how to dial into an ISP without using morse
code. Modems don't have morse keys.

Try regular bathing. It might help.

Bathing my computers? Now that you mention it, they are a bit dusty...
but I doubt that tossing them into the bathtub would do them any good.

Using them the way you do doesn't do anyone much good.

(Oooops, guess I just left you an opening you can drive a Kenworth with
a 53' trailer through! Oh, well -- you need all the help you can get!)

Not really needing your "help," sweatbreath.

You just keep tawking tuff to the group on how you got all those great
grades in college and could get any personnel job you wanted...all
through the dedication and resolve that made you Wonder Ham with
morse code.

You never used any 63/37 solder? Tsk, tsk, tsk.

Have you learned to solder yet?

LHA / WMD

In article , Leo
writes:

Wonder why it's called a reciprocal agreement when it isn't quite
reciprocal?

Perhaps because so many America-firsters want to be "one
over everyone else?" :-)

LHA / WMD

Hi, Len,

after reading through your last 25 posts to 10 threads, and did not find anything useful, exept wrong spelled english and german, but nothing about Amateur Radio Policy, I have to ask you directly about one very important thing.

What impact will Broadband over Powerlines, or PLC, have on the Amateur Radio Policy.

Thank you in advance for your honest and honorable answer, which I will take from you as the only one expert in Amateur Radio Policy and the Moderator of this Newsgroup. Please take my apology for the poor quoting habits, I am not jet skilled enough in this magic art.

Please don't cite me impatient, but may I await your reply soon? Today?

Best regards
Helmut

Helmut wrote:

Hi, Len,

after reading through your last 25 posts to 10 threads, and did not find
anything useful, exept wrong spelled english and german, but nothing
about Amateur Radio Policy, I have to ask you directly about one very
important thing.

Please don't expect Lennyboy to ever have anything useful to say, that
would be too much of a strain on the poor old man.

Oh, but I'm very much a part of U.S. amateur radio and I've been part of
amateur radio in five other countries. You aren't part of amateur radio
anywhere on the planet. You aren't a part of the ARRL. Your
connections to amateur radio are simply that you've commented to the FCC
about the service in which you do not participate and that you post
here.

Oh, my, another tyrant ranting away.

The FCC is "not a part of amateur radio," merely the regulation of
every civil radio service in the United States.

The First Amendment gives me a number of rights. Exclusion from
discussing those with anyone or my government is NOT under your
control. Not at any time, herr tyrant.

There are mechanisms in the U.S. Constitution for removing the
rights of citizens. Those are called "amendments." Do you think
you could ever, with or without force, make such an amenedment?

Why do you keep trying to be a tyrant?

Is that due to some mental illness? If so, get help fast.

Now be a good boy and go our and play in the radio sandbox with
your other "fellow hams." I hear the seven-year-old extra is nice.

Sieg heil...gruss gott.

LHA / WMD