I hereby propose that we rename RRAP to "rec.Steve, Len, and a few others
rag on each other endlessly.alt"
and create a new newsgroup for those of us who really would like to discuss
amateur radio regulatory and policy
issues ...

I'm getting REALLY tired of all of this endless, childish bickering that is
OT and doesn't belong here ...
most days, it's hard to find the stuff that this newsgroup is supposed to
be for because of the volume
of petty, personal bickering that you guys load the newsgroup up with ...

Or, alternatively, you guys can go rag on each other in
rec.radio.amateur.misc like it used to be (and why
this group was created in the first place if memory serves me correctly - to
provide a place for the serious
regulatory/policy discussion after rec.radio.amateur.misc turned into the
sort of argue_about_off_topic_things
fest that you guys have going on here ...

OK, there ... I've said my peace and now you can tell me to [expletive
deleted for Jim's benefit] off ...

Carl - wk3c

"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message
...
Subject: New Candidate for 'Youngest Extra'
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 4/2/2004 4:19 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article , Robert Casey
writes:

Just get the damn license Len, it aint rocket science.

I know "rocket science" after working three years at
Rocketdyne Division of Rockwell International, the makers
of the Space Shuttle Main Engine and the F1 main-stage
engines of the Saturn Rocket (Apollo Program lifter).

I am sure that while cleaning the floors and emptying out thier
ashtrays
and coffee cups, you got to know a LOT of "rocket scientists"...Probably
even
picked up enough "lingo" to impress some "young thing" at a bar long
enough to
get his pants off....

I've also had four other [expletive deleted] radio licenses.

The best [expletive deleted] radio licenses money could buy.

But none of them an Amateur Radio license.

Putz.

Steve, K4YZ

Well said, Carl.

73, Leo

On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 01:48:34 -0000, "Carl R. Stevenson"
wrote:

I hereby propose that we rename RRAP to "rec.Steve, Len, and a few others
rag on each other endlessly.alt"
and create a new newsgroup for those of us who really would like to discuss
amateur radio regulatory and policy
issues ...

I'm getting REALLY tired of all of this endless, childish bickering that is
OT and doesn't belong here ...
most days, it's hard to find the stuff that this newsgroup is supposed to
be for because of the volume
of petty, personal bickering that you guys load the newsgroup up with ...

Or, alternatively, you guys can go rag on each other in
rec.radio.amateur.misc like it used to be (and why
this group was created in the first place if memory serves me correctly - to
provide a place for the serious
regulatory/policy discussion after rec.radio.amateur.misc turned into the
sort of argue_about_off_topic_things
fest that you guys have going on here ...

OK, there ... I've said my peace and now you can tell me to [expletive
deleted for Jim's benefit] off ...

Carl - wk3c

"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message
...
Subject: New Candidate for 'Youngest Extra'
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 4/2/2004 4:19 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article , Robert Casey
writes:

Just get the damn license Len, it aint rocket science.

I know "rocket science" after working three years at
Rocketdyne Division of Rockwell International, the makers
of the Space Shuttle Main Engine and the F1 main-stage
engines of the Saturn Rocket (Apollo Program lifter).

I am sure that while cleaning the floors and emptying out thier
ashtrays
and coffee cups, you got to know a LOT of "rocket scientists"...Probably
even
picked up enough "lingo" to impress some "young thing" at a bar long
enough to
get his pants off....

I've also had four other [expletive deleted] radio licenses.

The best [expletive deleted] radio licenses money could buy.

But none of them an Amateur Radio license.

Putz.

Steve, K4YZ

Carl R. Stevenson wrote:


I'm getting REALLY tired of all of this endless, childish bickering that is
OT and doesn't belong here ...
most days, it's hard to find the stuff that this newsgroup is supposed to
be for because of the volume
of petty, personal bickering that you guys load the newsgroup up with ...

Newsgroup BPL, Carl. If there is an upside to this sad state of
affairs, it is pretty easy to see who all is posting the acrimony and
avoid it.

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Carl R. Stevenson wrote:


I'm getting REALLY tired of all of this endless, childish bickering that
is
OT and doesn't belong here ...
most days, it's hard to find the stuff that this newsgroup is supposed
to
be for because of the volume
of petty, personal bickering that you guys load the newsgroup up with
....

Newsgroup BPL, Carl. If there is an upside to this sad state of
affairs, it is pretty easy to see who all is posting the acrimony and
avoid it.
- Mike KB3EIA -

I much agree...which is why I have stopped the
posting that I used to.

I also agree with Carl's concerns and would "HOPE" that enough
of us can just ignore the obvious dumb, stupid bickering about
individuals and personalities and just try to stay on topic.

Cheers to all who use common sense, logic and a few
ounces of forthought before posting :-)

Bill K2UNK

Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP ... (was - New Candidate for 'Youngest
Extra')
From: "Carl R. Stevenson"
Date: 4/2/2004 7:48 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

I hereby propose that we rename RRAP to "rec.Steve, Len, and a few others
rag on each other endlessly.alt"
and create a new newsgroup for those of us who really would like to discuss
amateur radio regulatory and policy
issues ...

I'm getting REALLY tired of all of this endless, childish bickering that is
OT and doesn't belong here ...
most days, it's hard to find the stuff that this newsgroup is supposed to
be for because of the volume
of petty, personal bickering that you guys load the newsgroup up with ...

Or, alternatively, you guys can go rag on each other in
rec.radio.amateur.misc like it used to be (and why
this group was created in the first place if memory serves me correctly - to
provide a place for the serious
regulatory/policy discussion after rec.radio.amateur.misc turned into the
sort of argue_about_off_topic_things
fest that you guys have going on here ...

OK, there ... I've said my peace and now you can tell me to [expletive
deleted for Jim's benefit] off ...

Carl - wk3c

Thank-you for having expressed your God Given Opinon in accordance with
your Constitutional Rights, Carl.

Veterans, Take a bow. Carl made use of your sacrifices.

73

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP ... (was - New Candidate for
'Youngest Extra')
From: "Bill Sohl"
Date: 4/3/2004 8:31 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id: . net


"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Carl R. Stevenson wrote:


I'm getting REALLY tired of all of this endless, childish bickering that
is
OT and doesn't belong here ...
most days, it's hard to find the stuff that this newsgroup is supposed
to
be for because of the volume
of petty, personal bickering that you guys load the newsgroup up with
...

Newsgroup BPL, Carl. If there is an upside to this sad state of
affairs, it is pretty easy to see who all is posting the acrimony and
avoid it.
- Mike KB3EIA -

I much agree...which is why I have stopped the
posting that I used to.

I also agree with Carl's concerns and would "HOPE" that enough
of us can just ignore the obvious dumb, stupid bickering about
individuals and personalities and just try to stay on topic.

Cheers to all who use common sense, logic and a few
ounces of forthought before posting.

Gentlemen, your comments are well spoken and have much merit.

I wonder why, however, many of you selectively decide when to complain
about the "noise".

Myself and others have "sponsored" many-a-thread championing spectrum
protection, VE testing integrity and other "on topic" (ie: policy subjects)
only to have most of you presently commenting (with the exception of Mike
Coslo) pulling the "topics" into the usual 'know code/no code' silliness and
worn out rhetoric, often deteriorating into the "stupid bickering about
individual and personalities" that you presently lament.

I do believe it to be a bit of hypocracy, Gentlemen.

We'll see.

73

Steve, K4YZ

In article , (ugly
little mentally-seven-year-old very-amateur extra) writes:

Subject: New Candidate for 'Youngest Extra'
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 4/2/2004 4:19 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article , Robert Casey
writes:

Just get the damn license Len, it aint rocket science.

I know "rocket science" after working three years at
Rocketdyne Division of Rockwell International, the makers
of the Space Shuttle Main Engine and the F1 main-stage
engines of the Saturn Rocket (Apollo Program lifter).

I am sure that while cleaning the floors and emptying out thier ashtrays
and coffee cups, you got to know a LOT of "rocket scientists"...Probably even
picked up enough "lingo" to impress some "young thing" at a bar long enough
to get his pants off....

Tsk, tsk, tsk...ugly little comment from an ugly little person.

Members of the Technical Staff III didn't do janitorial services at
Rocketdyne. That was my work title and may be checked by
inquiry of Personell Department, Rocketdyne Division of Boeing
Aircraft [Boeing purchased the Rocketdyne Division from Rockwell
International after I left them]. My group was Electronic
Instrumentation and assisted many different project groups. My
tasks were with the instrumentation and sensor interface for
the Deformable Mirror program (part of the "Star Wars" work
spread all over the country); instrumentation for Solar One, the
50 MWe solar experimental power generation plant built at
Barstow, CA, (McDonnell-Douglas, Huntington Beach, CA was
prime contractor on instrumentation, Rocketdyne supplied the
solar boiler and underground heat storage - for darkness periods);
experimental liquid oxygen flow measurement for the SSME or
Space Shuttle Main Engine (cannot yet be safely directly
measured by any conventional flowmeter).

The Deformable Mirror program required actual deformation of
the mirror surface by actuators altering the surface by nanometer
distances accurately through an incorporated Bragg Cell dual
interferometer as the initial surface sensor and a phase-frequency
detector comparing the two interferometer outputs with a 16-bit
minicomputer program calculating the required mirror surface
information and actuators' necessary motion to achieve a desired
deformation. Deformable mirrors are now used in many astro-
nomical observatories for both focus and astigmatic correction
of distortion due to the earth atmosphere variability. My specific
contribution - besides being part of the team that organized the
electronics and computer interface - was a variation of the common
phase-frequency detector of PLLs optimized for linearity and
elimination of the very narrow "dead zone" at zero-phase. The
Bragg Cell outputs were at 39 and 40 MHz, the mixer (after
squaring) was digital. That was in 1980. The contractee was
the Department of Defense.

Solar One was a "local" project sponsored by all the Greater Los
Angeles electric power utilities. Rocketdyne's work with very
high temperature alloys and cooling with rocket engine "bells" was
a natural for the steam-generating boiler at the focus of hundreds
of heliostats (moveable mirrors reflecting the sunlight to the single
focus of the boiler). I got that assignment due to illness leave of
another MTS and the ability to work with very-non-radio Piping and
Instrumentation (in industrial applications) and the ubiquitous 4 to
20 mA wired sensor link systems and their subsequent interface
to the MacDac control midicomputer (32-bit word length). That was
in 1981.

The SSME LOX flow sensor project attempted to solve a very old
problem with conventional flow meters in that liquid oxygen wants
to "eat" any parts directly in the flow. Several attempts were made
to use ultrasonic waves directed at a slant through the main LOX
piping, that in the enormous high-level broadband noise environment
when the throttleable SSME is at working thrust (350,000 pounds
thrust at 110% throttle). After many firings at the Santa Susanna
Field Laboratories' test stand "Coca" that proved unsuccessful. The
method was eventually ruled out due to internal LOX density
disturbances that negated any sort of induced wavefront rate. At
present, LOX flow rate is inferred from relative temperature (non-
contact) sensors into a strap-on, very-high-shock/vibration-rated
computer mounted on each SSME. That same computer is the
link to/from the shuttle pilots and flight computer to control the
SSMEs. The thrust chamber of each SSME is about the size of
a small beach ball yet can provide about 175 tons of push. Fuel
is liquid hydrogen, rather more chilly than terrestrial surface fuels.
That was in 1982.

There was no sexual involvement involved, only that of connector
mating of male and female pins. To the best of my knowledge,
no "hermaphroditic" contact pins were used in any connectors.

I've also had four other [expletive deleted] radio licenses.

The best [expletive deleted] radio licenses money could buy.

All obtained from the FCC at the FCC's normal fee rate at the
Chicago, IL, and Long Beach, CA, Field Offices.

Only the PLMRS station EQUIPMENT cost any real money,
later recouped on a dissolved partnership business auction.

But none of them an Amateur Radio license.

Absolutely true...including two of the licenses then required
for Citizens Band in the 1960s. :-)

Putz.

Absolutely untrue, meshugge goyim. Shalom.

I sing kaddish to the demise of your civility and sensibility.

LHA / WMD

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Carl R. Stevenson wrote:

I'm getting REALLY tired of all of this endless, childish bickering that is
OT and doesn't belong here ...
most days, it's hard to find the stuff that this newsgroup is supposed to
be for because of the volume
of petty, personal bickering that you guys load the newsgroup up with ...

Newsgroup BPL, Carl. If there is an upside to this sad state of
affairs, it is pretty easy to see who all is posting the acrimony and
avoid it.

"Noise" can be much reduced by making and installing appropriate
shielding structures.

The key to happiness and nirvana would be a restricted-access
newsgroup, moderated so that all got along happily ever after.
That is the "shielding" which can be applied to keep out independent
thought, outside interference, and find sanctuary for all worshipping
the past of "the service" just like they had to do.

Of course someone who has bad screen days in here should
expend the effort to begin constructing such "shielding." Everyone
talks about it but no one is doing anything about it.

"Mankind invented language to satisfy his need to complain." - anon.

LHA / WMD

In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes:

I hereby propose that we rename RRAP to "rec.Steve, Len, and a few others
rag on each other endlessly.alt"
and create a new newsgroup for those of us who really would like to discuss
amateur radio regulatory and policy
issues ...

Carl, I've made a suggestion repeatedly for at least six years in
here that it should be shut off from public access with only
"authorized access" and a moderator to attempt keeping the
peace. That way everyone can be "among their own kind," happy
and content, no evil independent thoughts intruding nirvana.

I'm getting REALLY tired of all of this endless, childish bickering that is
OT and doesn't belong here ...
most days, it's hard to find the stuff that this newsgroup is supposed to
be for because of the volume
of petty, personal bickering that you guys load the newsgroup up with ...

I agree. But, having practiced computer-modem communications for
17+ years, slightly longer than that via time-share systems on the
old Arpanet, then Usenet, then BBSs, and finally the Internet after
1991, I'd say that human nature hasn't changed much. :-)

"Mankind invented language to satisfy his need to complain..." - anon.

For truly serious action on this, you should consult with Paul Schleck
on a "restructuring" of this newsgroup to make it closed-access.
Shut everyone out but your own kind. "Killfile" everyone that gives
you a bad screen day. Peace. Tranquility. Happy QSOs.

Or, alternatively, you guys can go rag on each other in
rec.radio.amateur.misc like it used to be (and why
this group was created in the first place if memory serves me correctly - to
provide a place for the serious
regulatory/policy discussion after rec.radio.amateur.misc turned into the
sort of argue_about_off_topic_things
fest that you guys have going on here ...

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Have you forgotten the immortal words of Jim Kehler
and his beloved "No SSB International" movement? Forgotten that
he loved to say (about Techs) "Gigahertz for gigasquirts?" :-)
KH2D = Jim Kehler, formerly high chieftan of hamminess on Guam.

Tell you what, Carl, let's see you hang in there with mild, civil
manners as a model of comportment after another has threatened
to abrogate your First Amendment rights in public, repeatedly
called you "putz" (Yiddish for asshole), "scum" in various forms,
"ignorant of everything in amateur radio," a "pathological liar,"
"dishonorable" towards the USA military after conjuring up obvious
untruthful conditions...plus...various forms of personal insults
including alleged homosexual acts, insulting my wife, my parents,
my work experience, my education, educational institutions who
provide college-credit courses away from normal hours.

Of course you've weathered those contentious conditions of an
equal nature with the highest possible conduct befitting an
executive directorship. All the PCTA have done equally calm,
reasoned, civil replies in here, haven't they? :-)

OK, there ... I've said my peace and now you can tell me to [expletive
deleted for Jim's benefit] off ...

Wouldn't think of it. Heavens, no civilized person uses [expletive
deleted] [expletive deleted] words in newsgroups...that's for the
lower-class, inferior, non-amateur bourgoise, the riff-raff, the
underbelly of society peasantry. Self-righteousness and
sanctimonious behavior are the true rulers on an enlighted
superior society.

-------

Now back to the present-day amateur policy newsgroup where the
main topics are immunization, diseases, past military experience,
national policy, and - especially - much angst over long-past
message exchanges which must be argued over and over and over
and over and over again until the original non-winner considers they
have "won."

Please excuse my absence. I am preparing some Replies to
Comments to my government on federal regulations. No doubt I
will once again by rewarded by an Amateur Extra licensee
demanding I be censored and censured for exercising my First
Amendment Rights to my government.

Censorship is wonderful, don't you wish everyone had it?

LHA / WMD

Len Over 21 wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


Carl R. Stevenson wrote:


I'm getting REALLY tired of all of this endless, childish bickering that is
OT and doesn't belong here ...
most days, it's hard to find the stuff that this newsgroup is supposed to
be for because of the volume
of petty, personal bickering that you guys load the newsgroup up with ...

Newsgroup BPL, Carl. If there is an upside to this sad state of
affairs, it is pretty easy to see who all is posting the acrimony and
avoid it.


"Noise" can be much reduced by making and installing appropriate
shielding structures.

I read each and every one of your posts that I see in this group.
Wouldn't miss them. If Carl wants to avoid them, that is his business.

- Mike KB3EIA -