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Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP ... (was - New Candidate for
'Youngest Extra') From: (Len Over 21) Date: 4/3/2004 2:28 PM Central Standard Time Message-id: In article , "Carl R. Stevenson" writes: I hereby propose that we rename RRAP to "rec.Steve, Len, and a few others rag on each other endlessly.alt" and create a new newsgroup for those of us who really would like to discuss amateur radio regulatory and policy issues ... Carl, I've made a suggestion repeatedly for at least six years in here that it should be shut off from public access with only "authorized access" and a moderator to attempt keeping the peace. That way everyone can be "among their own kind," happy and content, no evil independent thoughts intruding nirvana. YOU wouldn't want a moderator here, Lennie. I'm getting REALLY tired of all of this endless, childish bickering that is OT and doesn't belong here ... most days, it's hard to find the stuff that this newsgroup is supposed to be for because of the volume of petty, personal bickering that you guys load the newsgroup up with ... I agree. But, having practiced computer-modem communications for 17+ years, slightly longer than that via time-share systems on the old Arpanet, then Usenet, then BBSs, and finally the Internet after 1991, I'd say that human nature hasn't changed much. Ahhhhhh....some of that time-in-grade sets you apart, eh, Lennie? Tell you what, Carl, let's see you hang in there with mild, civil manners as a model of comportment after another has threatened to abrogate your First Amendment rights in public, repeatedly called you "putz" (Yiddish for asshole), "scum" in various forms, "ignorant of everything in amateur radio," a "pathological liar," "dishonorable" towards the USA military after conjuring up obvious untruthful conditions...plus...various forms of personal insults including alleged homosexual acts, insulting my wife, my parents, my work experience, my education, educational institutions who provide college-credit courses away from normal hours. Kinda miserable being treated in kind, isn't, Lennie? Is the point getting across to you? Of course you've weathered those contentious conditions of an equal nature with the highest possible conduct befitting an executive directorship. All the PCTA have done equally calm, reasoned, civil replies in here, haven't they? OK, there ... I've said my peace and now you can tell me to [expletive deleted for Jim's benefit] off ... Wouldn't think of it. Heavens, no civilized person uses [expletive deleted] [expletive deleted] words in newsgroups...that's for the lower-class, inferior, non-amateur bourgoise, the riff-raff, the underbelly of society peasantry. Self-righteousness and sanctimonious behavior are the true rulers on an enlighted superior society. "Profanity is the adjective of the weak mind"...Anon. Seems the FCC shares the same opinion, as do countless other organizations that are pressing the government to make the airwaves more "family friendly". Do you disagree with this concept, Lennie? Now back to the present-day amateur policy newsgroup where the main topics are immunization, diseases, past military experience, national policy, and - especially - much angst over long-past message exchanges which must be argued over and over and over and over and over again until the original non-winner considers they have "won." Please excuse my absence. I am preparing some Replies to Comments to my government on federal regulations. No doubt I will once again by rewarded by an Amateur Extra licensee demanding I be censored and censured for exercising my First Amendment Rights to my government. Censorship is wonderful, don't you wish everyone had it? Funny how what is your "right" to comment on anything you desire (regardless of who you hurt and why) is "censorship" when redirected at you, Lennie. Steve, K4YZ |
Subject: New Candidate for 'Youngest Extra'
From: (Len Over 21) Date: 4/4/2004 1:22 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: In article , (Steve Robeson K4CAP) writes: You belittle every licensed Radio Amateur for alledgedly being predisposed with "rank, title and priviledge", yet it's your own "rank, title and priviledge" that you want to talk about here. I'm not interested in talking about myself. I was answering your ugly little charge of homosexual activity while doing janitor work at Rocketdyne. WHOA! Since when were YOU "not interested in talking about myself"...?!?! BBWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHA! ! ! ! ! ! ! You have enough demonstrated symptoms of mental illness from all the public displays of inability to interface with other humans. You should seek mental therapy to alleviate that. Do so. Now who's the order-giving "dill sergeant", Lennie? I'll tell you what... I'll spend an hour with a mental health counsellor just as soon as evidence of YOUR having spent an hour at a VE session shows up in the FCC database. How's THAT for a deal...?!?! Heck, Lennie...I'll even rebate you your exam fee with a PMO. How's THAT for a deal? Up to you, Lennie! Steve, K4YZ |
Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP
From: "Carl R. Stevenson" Date: 4/4/2004 7:27 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: "Steve Robeson, K4CAP" wrote in message . com... Carl, why do YOU seem to have a problem with me giving a nod to veterans for having been able to provide you YOUR right to post your uncensored opinion? Because your "nod to veterans" was just an obviously insincere, self-serving "shot" at me, and not a genuine "hats off" to those who made sacrifices. Seems to me the "insincere, self serving shot" was yours...not mine, especially since the exchange was initiated BY YOU, Carl. Are you now insinuating that the sacrifices made by veterans in defense of your freedom to do so was wrong? You have a perverse way of trying to twist things to your own purpose Steve. And you don't, Carl? Congrats on the Veteran status. After you're done brow-beating me for having made an affirmative comment to Vets, reach around and give yourself a pat on the back from me...You deserve it. Had your "affirmative comments to Vets" been sincere and legitimate, rather than a self-serving attempt at a cheap shot, I wouldn't have said anything. But, I resent *your* constantly trying to suck some personal debating advantage (not that you get it) or "holier than thoubrownie points" out of your service ... why do you think Len refers to you as "the gunnery nurse?" (Hint - it's to emphasize the way you make a fool out of yourself by trying to "play the vet card.") Hint, Carl... Lennie has ALWAYS played the "vet card", even to the point of signing posts with his former service number, claiming that his rear-area support duties were somehow akin to having made the ultimate sacrifice in combat, and having tried to embellish his own service with that of men who died three years before he was even inducted. And if Lennie has fun calling me the "gunnery nurse", so what? OK ... now you can call *me* a putz ... and you're at the top of the potential kill-file list - but I wish you'd give EVERYONE a break for the benefit of the newsgroup. ARE you a putz, Carl? Would it make you feel better if I did? I don't think you are, but you seem anxious for me to do so. I don't care for many of your opinions or ideas, but overall I think you're an OK guy. 73 Steve, K4YZ |
Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP ... (was - New Candidate for
'Youngest Extra') From: (William) Date: 4/3/2004 9:09 PM Central Standard Time Message-id: (Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ... Veterans, Take a bow. Carl made use of your sacrifices. 73 Steve, K4YZ Steve abuses your sacrifice. Uh huh...riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight..... Steve, K4YZ |
Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP ... (was - New Candidate for
'Youngest Extra') From: "Carl R. Stevenson" Date: 4/3/2004 7:11 PM Central Standard Time Message-id: "Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message ... Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP ... (was - New Candidate for 'Youngest Extra') [snip] Gentlemen, your comments are well spoken and have much merit. I wonder why, however, many of you selectively decide when to complain about the "noise". Steve, The endless bickering and personal attacks that fundamentally have nothing to do with amateur radio policy and everything to do with personal grudges and vendettas have reached a level where they are almost totally dominating the newsgroup on many, if not most, days. I see. And you see my "crap" as being solely responsible. Uh huh... 73 Steve, K4YZ |
N2EY wrote:
In article . net, "Bill Sohl" writes: Newsgroup BPL, Carl. If there is an upside to this sad state of affairs, it is pretty easy to see who all is posting the acrimony and avoid it. - Mike KB3EIA - I much agree...which is why I have stopped the posting that I used to. I also agree with Carl's concerns and would "HOPE" that enough of us can just ignore the obvious dumb, stupid bickering about individuals and personalities and just try to stay on topic. Agreed, Bill. I find myself deleting most posts here, adn ignoring certain regular posters because no matter how civilly they are approached, they inevitably resort to name calling, false information and insults. But what do we do about those who post information that is simply not true? Do you reply to all the spam email that you get that promises you cheap prescription drugs, some poor schmedlock from Nigeria needs YOU to participate in some weird scam he's pulling off, or to increase the size of little willie to gargantuan proportions? You probably don't, I know I don't. Point is that 90 percent of the email I get is worthless spam. I'm not going to control it, and my option is therefore to opt out of email if I really can't handle it. This newsgroup has a higher s/n ratio than my personal email. If we approach the newsgroup noise as spam, it might make it a little easier to handle. Do you think that any of us can modify Len's behavior? Or Steve or Brian's? Not hardly likely! I don't even want to. I like 'em all just the way they are. If a person has problems with what they post, they can avoid reading them. Not a hard thing to do, as aside from Brian changing his addy to avoid spam, they aren't disguising themselves. - Mike KB3EIA - |
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In article , Mike Coslo
writes: N2EY wrote: In article . net, "Bill Sohl" writes: Newsgroup BPL, Carl. If there is an upside to this sad state of affairs, it is pretty easy to see who all is posting the acrimony and avoid it. - Mike KB3EIA - I much agree...which is why I have stopped the posting that I used to. I also agree with Carl's concerns and would "HOPE" that enough of us can just ignore the obvious dumb, stupid bickering about individuals and personalities and just try to stay on topic. Agreed, Bill. I find myself deleting most posts here, adn ignoring certain regular posters because no matter how civilly they are approached, they inevitably resort to name calling, false information and insults. But what do we do about those who post information that is simply not true? Do you reply to all the spam email that you get that promises you cheap prescription drugs, some poor schmedlock from Nigeria needs YOU to participate in some weird scam he's pulling off, or to increase the size of little willie to gargantuan proportions? You probably don't, I know I don't. Point is that 90 percent of the email I get is worthless spam. I'm not going to control it, and my option is therefore to opt out of email if I really can't handle it. This newsgroup has a higher s/n ratio than my personal email. If we approach the newsgroup noise as spam, it might make it a little easier to handle. Do you think that any of us can modify Len's behavior? Why do you think anyone's "behavior" needs modification? Consider that the few clues of just written words are not always interpreted the same by different human beans. Some folks cannot write well. Others can. A very few others have considerable practice with writing in many different venues. Individual perception needs honing in written-only environments. Or Steve or Brian's? Not hardly likely! I don't even want to. I like 'em all just the way they are. I don't think you "like" them, but that's beside the point. :-) Since Arpanet started, since Usenet spun off of Arpanet, since BBSs emulated both and, finally, Internet took over for the majority of computer-modem communication, and the behavior patterns have all been the same. Some folks think their magnificent words are golden words of wisdom from veritable gods and are, as Hans Brakob once pointed out, filled with murderous rage at any who DARE challenge that magnificence! A verbal firefight then erupts from the furious volcano of the noble slighted. If a person has problems with what they post, they can avoid reading them. Extremely easy for normal folks. Most browsers will just skip to the next message with the Enter/Return key. Obsessive-compulsives with a Fight! attitude cannot skip them. Not a hard thing to do, as aside from Brian changing his addy to avoid spam, they aren't disguising themselves. Anyone with some normal practice in reading can see the word, phrase, syntactic structure of individuals and thus identify them. [that's much easier than the alleged "fist" of telegraphers... there are far more clues to identities with written languages] However, individual emotions can override such identitification clues, particularly true of obsessive-compulsives with some sort of grudge bias...or they need the cathartic effects of safely tossing snit on others as a relief from daily frustrations away from the newsgroups. [time and distance separation insures no risk from physical retribution, hence so many, usually new modemists, will toss away normal social manners and let their inner rages predominate] Those who've been members of social types of Bulletin Board Systems will know this by experience of comparing on-screen appearance with in-person identity clues and spoken communication, the in-person identification offering many more clues to the inside workings of others. Meanwhile, back at the raunch, there's still 4 petitions alive for comments at the FCC. While the ECFS is in standby over the weekend, it's hard to see who contributed on Saturday or Sunday, but I don't see many rrap-ers' names in the ECFS listings. Not enough "dedication and committment to the amateur community?" :-) LHA / WMD |
In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes: I agree 100%, Carl. So what should folks like you and I do about it? Jim, I hate to "kill-file" folks - they *might* just say something relevant at some point, but I'm considering it for a few individuals whose posts are mostly personal vendetta-like attacks and insults ... Me, too. The amount of relevant stuff is overwhelmed by the nasty stuff. In practice I often don't get past the first line or two before deleting because of an author's demonstrated behavior here. In particular, when someone posts information that is flat out wrong, should we simply ignore it or challenge it? If we see it and know it to be wrong, I think we should challenge it. However, it is not my job (nor, I suspect yours) to wade through all of their drivel in search of a relevant, incorrect assertion so that it might be challenged. Agreed. But sometimes the errors just leap out at you. I tend to think that most people will give little credence to whatever some of these folks say, just on the basis of the tone and content of most of their messages. Hopefully. I am just finding it annoying to have the newsgroup polluted with so much OT stuff - newsgroup BPL, I think Mike called it. That's an excellent term. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Titles... You belittle every licensed Radio Amateur for alledgedly being predisposed with "rank, title and priviledge", yet it's your own "rank, title and priviledge" that you want to talk about here. It is getting pretty rank here.... :-) |
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote | I hereby propose that we rename RRAP to "rec.Steve, | Len, and a few others rag on each other endlessly.alt" | and create a new newsgroup for those of us who really | would like to discuss amateur radio regulatory and | policy issues ... I third the notion. |
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Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP ... (was - New Candidate for
'Youngest From: (Len Over 21) Date: 4/4/2004 1:37 PM Central Standard Time Message-id: In article , Mike Coslo writes: You probably don't, I know I don't. Point is that 90 percent of the email I get is worthless spam. I'm not going to control it, and my option is therefore to opt out of email if I really can't handle it. This newsgroup has a higher s/n ratio than my personal email. If we approach the newsgroup noise as spam, it might make it a little easier to handle. Do you think that any of us can modify Len's behavior? Why do you think anyone's "behavior" needs modification? Consider that the few clues of just written words are not always interpreted the same by different human beans. Some folks cannot write well. Others can. A very few others have considerable practice with writing in many different venues. Individual perception needs honing in written-only environments. Coming from someone who is always demanding that others "seek mental health counselling", this was precious. "Why", indeed, Lennie..."why" indeed... Steve, K4YZ |
Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP ... (was - New Candidate for
'Youngest Extra') From: (William) Date: 4/4/2004 5:05 PM Central Standard Time Message-id: (Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ... The many threads that you sponsor are usually titled, "Lend Steps in own Feces" or some such other lunacy. There is no selectivity. You bring criticism upon yourself for being such a jerk. (1) Who's "Lend"...?!?! (2) If "Lend", or whoever, wasn't making so many stupid, easily refuted misrepresentations about Amateur Radio in general or certain persons in particular, threads like those you mention wouldn't show up. (3) As for "selectivity", I believe I've been VERY selective. Unless you can prove differently? 73 Steve, K4YZ |
Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP ... (was - New Candidate for
'Youngest Extra') From: (William) Date: 4/4/2004 5:17 PM Central Standard Time Message-id: Take a little personal responsibility for yourself. I do, Brian. I accept responsibility for what I post. That's why when I post something that is later proven to be other than what I suggested it was I say "I stand corrected" or otherwise acknowledge my error. You have yet to do that despite having been proven "wrong" over and over. You'd rather compound your humiliation with even more elaborate dodges. Nice try. 73 Steve, K4YZ |
Len Over 21 wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo writes: N2EY wrote: In article . net, "Bill Sohl" writes: Newsgroup BPL, Carl. If there is an upside to this sad state of affairs, it is pretty easy to see who all is posting the acrimony and avoid it. - Mike KB3EIA - I much agree...which is why I have stopped the posting that I used to. I also agree with Carl's concerns and would "HOPE" that enough of us can just ignore the obvious dumb, stupid bickering about individuals and personalities and just try to stay on topic. Agreed, Bill. I find myself deleting most posts here, adn ignoring certain regular posters because no matter how civilly they are approached, they inevitably resort to name calling, false information and insults. But what do we do about those who post information that is simply not true? Do you reply to all the spam email that you get that promises you cheap prescription drugs, some poor schmedlock from Nigeria needs YOU to participate in some weird scam he's pulling off, or to increase the size of little willie to gargantuan proportions? You probably don't, I know I don't. Point is that 90 percent of the email I get is worthless spam. I'm not going to control it, and my option is therefore to opt out of email if I really can't handle it. This newsgroup has a higher s/n ratio than my personal email. If we approach the newsgroup noise as spam, it might make it a little easier to handle. Do you think that any of us can modify Len's behavior? Why do you think anyone's "behavior" needs modification? I don't. Do you think I do from what I posted? Consider that the few clues of just written words are not always interpreted the same by different human beans. Some folks cannot write well. Others can. A very few others have considerable practice with writing in many different venues. Individual perception needs honing in written-only environments. Or Steve or Brian's? Not hardly likely! I don't even want to. I like 'em all just the way they are. I don't think you "like" them, but that's beside the point. :-) Sorry, but I actually do like both of them. You too.` - Mike KB3EIA - |
In article , Mike Coslo
writes: N2EY wrote: In article . net, "Bill Sohl" writes: Newsgroup BPL, Carl. If there is an upside to this sad state of affairs, it is pretty easy to see who all is posting the acrimony and avoid it. - Mike KB3EIA - I much agree...which is why I have stopped the posting that I used to. I also agree with Carl's concerns and would "HOPE" that enough of us can just ignore the obvious dumb, stupid bickering about individuals and personalities and just try to stay on topic. Agreed, Bill. I find myself deleting most posts here, adn ignoring certain regular posters because no matter how civilly they are approached, they inevitably resort to name calling, false information and insults. But what do we do about those who post information that is simply not true? Do you reply to all the spam email that you get that promises you cheap prescription drugs, some poor schmedlock from Nigeria needs YOU to participate in some weird scam he's pulling off, or to increase the size of little willie to gargantuan proportions? You make an excellent point. I used to read that stuff, but soon got to the point where I could tell from the subject line and sender that it was spam, and I'd delete it unread. You probably don't, I know I don't. Point is that 90 percent of the email I get is worthless spam. I'm not going to control it, and my option is therefore to opt out of email if I really can't handle it. This newsgroup has a higher s/n ratio than my personal email. In my case it's lower - there is more signal and less noise in my personal email than here. Part of that is due to the high volume of good stuff from the various reflectors, though. If we approach the newsgroup noise as spam, it might make it a little easier to handle. Good point. I have been doing that for a while, without really thinking about it. Do you think that any of us can modify Len's behavior? Only Len can do that. Or Steve or Brian's? It's up to them. Not hardly likely! Agreed. I don't even want to. I like 'em all just the way they are. You like the noise? I don't. And I agree with Carl that their behavior has helped drive away good people like W1RFI. If a person has problems with what they post, they can avoid reading them. Not a hard thing to do, as aside from Brian changing his addy to avoid spam, they aren't disguising themselves. Aside from Len's use of no less than five different screen names he that's pretty true. Newsgrouo BPL - very descriptive. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo writes: N2EY wrote: In article . net, "Bill Sohl" writes: Newsgroup BPL, Carl. If there is an upside to this sad state of affairs, it is pretty easy to see who all is posting the acrimony and avoid it. - Mike KB3EIA - I much agree...which is why I have stopped the posting that I used to. I also agree with Carl's concerns and would "HOPE" that enough of us can just ignore the obvious dumb, stupid bickering about individuals and personalities and just try to stay on topic. Agreed, Bill. I find myself deleting most posts here, adn ignoring certain regular posters because no matter how civilly they are approached, they inevitably resort to name calling, false information and insults. But what do we do about those who post information that is simply not true? Do you reply to all the spam email that you get that promises you cheap prescription drugs, some poor schmedlock from Nigeria needs YOU to participate in some weird scam he's pulling off, or to increase the size of little willie to gargantuan proportions? You make an excellent point. I used to read that stuff, but soon got to the point where I could tell from the subject line and sender that it was spam, and I'd delete it unread. You probably don't, I know I don't. Point is that 90 percent of the email I get is worthless spam. I'm not going to control it, and my option is therefore to opt out of email if I really can't handle it. This newsgroup has a higher s/n ratio than my personal email. In my case it's lower - there is more signal and less noise in my personal email than here. Part of that is due to the high volume of good stuff from the various reflectors, though. My big problem is that one of my addys is a .edu, and it has what many places did at one time (perhaps some still do) my initials followed by a number. Many of the spammers simply use a random group of letters followed by a semi-random group of numbers, and viola, "you have spam!" It is chilling to think of how much bandwidth that wastes. If we approach the newsgroup noise as spam, it might make it a little easier to handle. Good point. I have been doing that for a while, without really thinking about it. Do you think that any of us can modify Len's behavior? Only Len can do that. And I think he is quite happy with the way he is! Or Steve or Brian's? It's up to them. Not hardly likely! Agreed. I don't even want to. I like 'em all just the way they are. You like the noise? I don't. Oh no! But I separate the noise from the person And I agree with Carl that their behavior has helped drive away good people like W1RFI. That is too bad, but I liken the situation to stopping driving because there are wild drivers out on the road. Once I left a group because of problems with certain posters. It was an amateur telescope making SIG. I was getting personal email nastygrams from one member on every post I made, and a couple others seemed to agree with him. So I left the group. A week after that, I found out the person doing this had passed away. Turns out he was a terminal cancer case, and was on a LOT of pain killing drugs. I felt pretty awkward for being so p****d off at him earlier. Point is, maybe some people are less than pleasant, but we aren't always sure why. If a person has problems with what they post, they can avoid reading them. Not a hard thing to do, as aside from Brian changing his addy to avoid spam, they aren't disguising themselves. Aside from Len's use of no less than five different screen names he that's pretty true. Although I think that he always puts His name in the post somewhere. Newsgroup BPL - very descriptive. I think so. - Mike KB3EIA - |
On Sat, 3 Apr 2004, Carl R. Stevenson wrote:
I hereby propose that we rename RRAP to "rec.Steve, Len, and a few others rag on each other endlessly.alt" and create a new newsgroup for those of us who really would like to discuss amateur radio regulatory and policy issues ... rec.radio.amateur.bitchfest seems more appropriate - and better than .misc. I'm getting REALLY tired of all of this endless, childish bickering that is OT and doesn't belong here ... most days, it's hard to find the stuff that this newsgroup is supposed to be for because of the volume of petty, personal bickering that you guys load the newsgroup up with ... Or, alternatively, you guys can go rag on each other in rec.radio.amateur.misc like it used to be (and why this group was created in the first place if memory serves me correctly - to provide a place for the serious regulatory/policy discussion after rec.radio.amateur.misc turned into the sort of argue_about_off_topic_things fest that you guys have going on here ... OK, there ... I've said my peace and now you can tell me to [expletive deleted for Jim's benefit] off ... Carl - wk3c "Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message ... Subject: New Candidate for 'Youngest Extra' From: (Len Over 21) Date: 4/2/2004 4:19 PM Central Standard Time Message-id: In article , Robert Casey writes: Just get the damn license Len, it aint rocket science. I know "rocket science" after working three years at Rocketdyne Division of Rockwell International, the makers of the Space Shuttle Main Engine and the F1 main-stage engines of the Saturn Rocket (Apollo Program lifter). I am sure that while cleaning the floors and emptying out thier ashtrays and coffee cups, you got to know a LOT of "rocket scientists"...Probably even picked up enough "lingo" to impress some "young thing" at a bar long enough to get his pants off.... I've also had four other [expletive deleted] radio licenses. The best [expletive deleted] radio licenses money could buy. But none of them an Amateur Radio license. Putz. Steve, K4YZ |
"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message ... Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP ... (was - New Candidate for 'Youngest Extra') From: "Carl R. Stevenson" Date: 4/3/2004 7:11 PM Central Standard Time Message-id: "Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message ... Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP ... (was - New Candidate for 'Youngest Extra') [snip] Gentlemen, your comments are well spoken and have much merit. I wonder why, however, many of you selectively decide when to complain about the "noise". Steve, The endless bickering and personal attacks that fundamentally have nothing to do with amateur radio policy and everything to do with personal grudges and vendettas have reached a level where they are almost totally dominating the newsgroup on many, if not most, days. I see. And you see my "crap" as being solely responsible. Uh huh... 73 Steve, K4YZ You're twisting again, Steve ... I clearly indicated that it was not just you ... Carl - wk3c |
Mike Coslo wrote in message ...
N2EY wrote: In article , Mike Coslo writes: N2EY wrote: In article . net, "Bill Sohl" writes: Newsgroup BPL, Carl. If there is an upside to this sad state of affairs, it is pretty easy to see who all is posting the acrimony and avoid it. - Mike KB3EIA - I much agree...which is why I have stopped the posting that I used to. I also agree with Carl's concerns and would "HOPE" that enough of us can just ignore the obvious dumb, stupid bickering about individuals and personalities and just try to stay on topic. Agreed, Bill. I find myself deleting most posts here, adn ignoring certain regular posters because no matter how civilly they are approached, they inevitably resort to name calling, false information and insults. But what do we do about those who post information that is simply not true? Do you reply to all the spam email that you get that promises you cheap prescription drugs, some poor schmedlock from Nigeria needs YOU to participate in some weird scam he's pulling off, or to increase the size of little willie to gargantuan proportions? You make an excellent point. I used to read that stuff, but soon got to the point where I could tell from the subject line and sender that it was spam, and I'd delete it unread. You probably don't, I know I don't. Point is that 90 percent of the email I get is worthless spam. I'm not going to control it, and my option is therefore to opt out of email if I really can't handle it. This newsgroup has a higher s/n ratio than my personal email. In my case it's lower - there is more signal and less noise in my personal email than here. Part of that is due to the high volume of good stuff from the various reflectors, though. My big problem is that one of my addys is a .edu, and it has what many places did at one time (perhaps some still do) my initials followed by a number. Just askin' for it. Many of the spammers simply use a random group of letters followed by a semi-random group of numbers, and viola, "you have spam!" It is chilling to think of how much bandwidth that wastes. Better than junkmail, though. If we approach the newsgroup noise as spam, it might make it a little easier to handle. Good point. I have been doing that for a while, without really thinking about it. Do you think that any of us can modify Len's behavior? Only Len can do that. And I think he is quite happy with the way he is! He appears to be quite pleased with himself. And extremely critical, insulting and condemnatory of anyone who dares to disagree with him or prove him wrong about anything. Or Steve or Brian's? It's up to them. Not hardly likely! Agreed. I don't even want to. I like 'em all just the way they are. You like the noise? I don't. Oh no! But I separate the noise from the person In some cases if you separate the noise from the person there isn't much left! And I agree with Carl that their behavior has helped drive away good people like W1RFI. That is too bad, but I liken the situation to stopping driving because there are wild drivers out on the road. It's more like this: Stopping driving on certain roads because of the wild drivers on those roads. Once I left a group because of problems with certain posters. It was an amateur telescope making SIG. I was getting personal email nastygrams from one member on every post I made, and a couple others seemed to agree with him. So I left the group. A week after that, I found out the person doing this had passed away. Turns out he was a terminal cancer case, and was on a LOT of pain killing drugs. I felt pretty awkward for being so p****d off at him earlier. His behavior wasn't your doing, Mike. Point is, maybe some people are less than pleasant, but we aren't always sure why. Very true. However, that does not mean we must accept their behavior as "normal" or "acceptable". If a person has problems with what they post, they can avoid reading them. Not a hard thing to do, as aside from Brian changing his addy to avoid spam, they aren't disguising themselves. Which is what I do much of the time. Aside from Len's use of no less than five different screen names he that's pretty true. Although I think that he always puts His name in the post somewhere. No, he doesn't. In fact the reverse is true - most of Len's posts here do not contain his name or other clear identifier. Of course he posts here so much that if only 1 in 100 posts is clearly identified, it is soon clear who is who. Newsgroup BPL - very descriptive. I think so. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP
From: "Carl R. Stevenson" Date: 4/5/2004 11:09 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: "Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message ... The endless bickering and personal attacks that fundamentally have nothing to do with amateur radio policy and everything to do with personal grudges and vendettas have reached a level where they are almost totally dominating the newsgroup on many, if not most, days. I see. And you see my "crap" as being solely responsible. Uh huh... You're twisting again, Steve ... I clearly indicated that it was not just you ... I don't believe myself to be "twisting" anything, Carl, but I do see your point, so I stand corrected. 73 Steve, K4YZ |
Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP ... (was - New Candidate for
'Youngest From: (N2EY) Date: 4/5/2004 11:11 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: Mike Coslo wrote in message ... Although I think that he always puts His name in the post somewhere. No, he doesn't. In fact the reverse is true - most of Len's posts here do not contain his name or other clear identifier. Of course he posts here so much that if only 1 in 100 posts is clearly identified, it is soon clear who is who. Or he let's his ego override his situational awareness and signs his name to a post under one of his nomme-de guerre's and let's it slip who he is... 73 Steve, K4YZ |
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote | | You're twisting again, Steve ... I clearly indicated that it was not just | you ... | | Carl - wk3c Carl, They've dragged you down into their same insult-match. Never wrestle with a pig. You get covered with mud and pig ****, and the pig enjoys the company. 73, de Hans, K0HB |
Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP ... (was - New Candidate for
'Youngest Extra') From: (N2EY) Date: 4/5/2004 11:48 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: (Len Over 21) wrote in message ... Once adjusted to all those very real environmental conditions, but you still feel that your god-like words are irrefutable truisms, it is time to pack it in, quit the newsgroup, and perhaps establish yourself as a swami of a cult somewhere. That's much better than to hang in and constantly complaining that some just don't believe your truths to be self-evident and are so irreverent to your magnificent words. :-) You should re-read those statements and act on them, Len. SURELY you're not going to hold your breath waiting for THAT to happen! So here's a challenge for you, Len: Let's see you set the example of "civil debate". That means no name-calling, no little digs at other people's jobs, names, license classes, ethnicities or religions, no making fun of their favorite modes. It also means clear distinctions between facts and opinions. What...?!?! That would be akin to forcing a mime to sit on his hands! ! ! ! ! ! And it means behaving that way even if someone disagrees with you, or disproves some claim you make here. Now you're REALLY hoping aginst hope! Go ahead, Len. Show us how it's done. I'll follow if you lead. If you choose to behave the way you typically have done here for the past 7 years or so, I'll just ignore you. And I'll follow Jim's lead. 73 Steve, K4YZ |
Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP
From: "KØHB" Date: 4/5/2004 11:55 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: .net They've dragged you down into their same insult-match. So which are you, Hans? The pig or the company? 73 Steve, K4YZ |
N2EY wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote in message ... snippage My big problem is that one of my addys is a .edu, and it has what many places did at one time (perhaps some still do) my initials followed by a number. Just askin' for it. and they won't let me change it either! 8^( snippage In some cases if you separate the noise from the person there isn't much left! Okay, now that reminds me of one of my favorite jokes: Q. What weighs 5 pounds and is obnoxious? A. A (insert statehood of a person here) after an enema! snippage - Mike KB3EIA - |
KØHB wrote:
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote | | You're twisting again, Steve ... I clearly indicated that it was not just | you ... | | Carl - wk3c Carl, They've dragged you down into their same insult-match. Never wrestle with a pig. You get covered with mud and pig ****, and the pig enjoys the company. Be kind to pigs, Hans. - mike KB3EIA - |
In article .net, "KØHB"
writes: "Carl R. Stevenson" wrote | You're twisting again, Steve ... I clearly indicated that it was not just | you ... | | Carl - wk3c Carl, They've dragged you down into their same insult-match. Never wrestle with a pig. You get covered with mud and pig ****, and the pig enjoys the company. 73, de Hans, K0HB Heh heh heh. Very apt, but now watch more murderous rage erupt from the pig pen. :-) LHA / WMD |
In article ,
(Holy man, still mad as heck and not taking it any more) writes: Mike Coslo wrote in message ... N2EY wrote: In article , Mike Coslo writes: N2EY wrote: In article . net, "Bill Sohl" writes: Newsgroup BPL, Carl. If there is an upside to this sad state of affairs, it is pretty easy to see who all is posting the acrimony and avoid it. - Mike KB3EIA - I much agree...which is why I have stopped the posting that I used to. I also agree with Carl's concerns and would "HOPE" that enough of us can just ignore the obvious dumb, stupid bickering about individuals and personalities and just try to stay on topic. Agreed, Bill. I find myself deleting most posts here, adn ignoring certain regular posters because no matter how civilly they are approached, they inevitably resort to name calling, false information and insults. But what do we do about those who post information that is simply not true? Do you reply to all the spam email that you get that promises you cheap prescription drugs, some poor schmedlock from Nigeria needs YOU to participate in some weird scam he's pulling off, or to increase the size of little willie to gargantuan proportions? You make an excellent point. I used to read that stuff, but soon got to the point where I could tell from the subject line and sender that it was spam, and I'd delete it unread. You probably don't, I know I don't. Point is that 90 percent of the email I get is worthless spam. I'm not going to control it, and my option is therefore to opt out of email if I really can't handle it. This newsgroup has a higher s/n ratio than my personal email. In my case it's lower - there is more signal and less noise in my personal email than here. Part of that is due to the high volume of good stuff from the various reflectors, though. My big problem is that one of my addys is a .edu, and it has what many places did at one time (perhaps some still do) my initials followed by a number. Just askin' for it. Many of the spammers simply use a random group of letters followed by a semi-random group of numbers, and viola, "you have spam!" It is chilling to think of how much bandwidth that wastes. Better than junkmail, though. If we approach the newsgroup noise as spam, it might make it a little easier to handle. Good point. I have been doing that for a while, without really thinking about it. Do you think that any of us can modify Len's behavior? Only Len can do that. And I think he is quite happy with the way he is! He appears to be quite pleased with himself. And extremely critical, insulting and condemnatory of anyone who dares to disagree with him or prove him wrong about anything. Or Steve or Brian's? It's up to them. Not hardly likely! Agreed. I don't even want to. I like 'em all just the way they are. You like the noise? I don't. Oh no! But I separate the noise from the person In some cases if you separate the noise from the person there isn't much left! And I agree with Carl that their behavior has helped drive away good people like W1RFI. That is too bad, but I liken the situation to stopping driving because there are wild drivers out on the road. It's more like this: Stopping driving on certain roads because of the wild drivers on those roads. Once I left a group because of problems with certain posters. It was an amateur telescope making SIG. I was getting personal email nastygrams from one member on every post I made, and a couple others seemed to agree with him. So I left the group. A week after that, I found out the person doing this had passed away. Turns out he was a terminal cancer case, and was on a LOT of pain killing drugs. I felt pretty awkward for being so p****d off at him earlier. His behavior wasn't your doing, Mike. Point is, maybe some people are less than pleasant, but we aren't always sure why. Very true. However, that does not mean we must accept their behavior as "normal" or "acceptable". If a person has problems with what they post, they can avoid reading them. Not a hard thing to do, as aside from Brian changing his addy to avoid spam, they aren't disguising themselves. Which is what I do much of the time. Aside from Len's use of no less than five different screen names he that's pretty true. Although I think that he always puts His name in the post somewhere. No, he doesn't. In fact the reverse is true - most of Len's posts here do not contain his name or other clear identifier. Of course he posts here so much that if only 1 in 100 posts is clearly identified, it is soon clear who is who. Forgive me, holiest of holy men of the Church of St. Hiram. My name and current postal address has been given over two dozen times in 5 electronics publications, a minimum printing of over 50,000 per issue. My name and current postal address appear the same on 90 documents on 22 different proceedings in the FCC Electronic Comment Filing System. Forgive me for the impertinence of appearing anonymous, your emminence. I am but a humble servant of independent thought, unable to bask in the etheral shining glow of your magnifence. "Captain, I sense much hostility out there..." - Troi LHA / WMD |
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In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes: Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP ... (was - New Candidate for 'Youngest Extra') From: (N2EY) Date: 4/5/2004 11:48 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: (Len Over 21) wrote in message ... Once adjusted to all those very real environmental conditions, but you still feel that your god-like words are irrefutable truisms, it is time to pack it in, quit the newsgroup, and perhaps establish yourself as a swami of a cult somewhere. That's much better than to hang in and constantly complaining that some just don't believe your truths to be self-evident and are so irreverent to your magnificent words. :-) You should re-read those statements and act on them, Len. SURELY you're not going to hold your breath waiting for THAT to happen! It's just a suggestion, Steve. No need to get all excited. So here's a challenge for you, Len: Let's see you set the example of "civil debate". That means no name-calling, no little digs at other people's jobs, names, license classes, ethnicities or religions, no making fun of their favorite modes. It also means clear distinctions between facts and opinions. What...?!?! Just what it says, Steve. That would be akin to forcing a mime to sit on his hands! ! ! ! ! ! Can you meet the same challenge? And it means behaving that way even if someone disagrees with you, or disproves some claim you make here. Now you're REALLY hoping aginst hope! I'm simply offering a challenge. It's basically what Carl, WK3C is asking people to do here. Go ahead, Len. Show us how it's done. I'll follow if you lead. If you choose to behave the way you typically have done here for the past 7 years or so, I'll just ignore you. And I'll follow Jim's lead. Why not lead the way, Steve? 73 de Jim, N2EY 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"KØHB" wrote in message link.net... "Carl R. Stevenson" wrote | | You're twisting again, Steve ... I clearly indicated that it was not just | you ... | | Carl - wk3c Carl, They've dragged you down into their same insult-match. Never wrestle with a pig. You get covered with mud and pig ****, and the pig enjoys the company. 73, de Hans, K0HB Hans, I didn't insult anyone ... and I don't plan on following this any more ... if the noise level continues, I will simply start to "kill-file" the offending parties' posts. 73, Carl - wk3c |
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote | I will simply start to "kill-file" the | offending parties' posts. | | 73, | Carl - wk3c It works wonders, Carl. Since implementing a disciplined screening protocol the noise level has dropped about 30dB here. Most of the messages I see actually pertain to amateur radio policy. 73, de Hans, K0HB |
Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP
From: "KØHB" Date: 4/5/2004 10:42 PM Central Standard Time Message-id: .net "Carl R. Stevenson" wrote | I will simply start to "kill-file" the | offending parties' posts. | | 73, | Carl - wk3c It works wonders, Carl. Since implementing a disciplined screening protocol the noise level has dropped about 30dB here. Most of the messages I see actually pertain to amateur radio policy. So how do you see your own posts, Hans? 73 Steve, K4YZ |
Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP ... (was - New Candidate for
'Youngest Extra') From: (Len Over 21) Date: 4/5/2004 1:45 PM Central Standard Time Message-id: In article , (Holy man, mad as heck and not taking it anymore) writes: So here's a challenge for you, Len: Let's see you set the example of "civil debate". That means no name-calling, no little digs at other people's jobs, names, license classes, ethnicities or religions, no making fun of their favorite modes. It also means clear distinctions between facts and opinions. Please give us the entire listing of what is correct. Please issue the proper and correct stage directions so that all may act upon it without error. Please, your holiness, lead us not into temptation of the terrible independent thought! All shall be as you ordain, all shall be right with the world. And it means behaving that way even if someone disagrees with you, or disproves some claim you make here. Yea, verily we shall all strive to act in the manner you have shown us as leadership, your holiness. Go ahead, Len. Show us how it's done. I'll follow if you lead. If you choose to behave the way you typically have done here for the past 7 years or so, I'll just ignore you. Oh! Please! Not that! To be ignored by the Holiest of Holy Men! I stand abshed with head bowed before your majestic divinity and humbly ask forgiveness for having the temerity to express independent thought. Jim, I think this pretty well answered any "questions" about Lennie's ability or willinginess to be "civil". Not that anyone had any misconceptions about the loser. Oh...I forgot...There was Brian...Brian says I am "whacko". Sure glad Lennie set him straight. 73 Steve, K4YZ |
Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP ... (was - New Candidate for
'Youngest Extra') From: PAMNO (N2EY) Date: 4/5/2004 4:59 PM Central Standard Time Message-id: In article , (Steve Robeson K4CAP) writes: SURELY you're not going to hold your breath waiting for THAT to happen! It's just a suggestion, Steve. No need to get all excited. No excitement here, Jim, save for the new station stuff I'm assembling. That would be akin to forcing a mime to sit on his hands! ! ! ! ! ! Can you meet the same challenge? I only need one finger to tap on the key with! And I'll follow Jim's lead. Why not lead the way, Steve? Why not? Why not? 73 de Jim, N2EY 73 de Jim, N2EY 73 Steve, K4YZ 73 Steve, K4YZ |
Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:
Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP From: "KØHB" Date: 4/5/2004 10:42 PM Central Standard Time Message-id: .net "Carl R. Stevenson" wrote | I will simply start to "kill-file" the | offending parties' posts. | | 73, | Carl - wk3c It works wonders, Carl. Since implementing a disciplined screening protocol the noise level has dropped about 30dB here. Most of the messages I see actually pertain to amateur radio policy. So how do you see your own posts, Hans? Yah. I kind of miss how he used to call me stupid! ;^) - Mike KB3EIA - |
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