Leo wrote:

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 05:34:03 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

Len Five Decades Over 21 but not acting a day over eleven wrote:

If you're waiting for radio
amateurs to be impressed by your professional credentials, you're likely
going to be disappointed.

I must admit, I've taken a shot or three at Len over exactly the same
issue - no Amateur callsign = no valid opinion on Amateur issues.

However, a little research reveals that this distinction would be
irrelevant in Canada, as we grant full Amateur license privileges upon
request to persons with appropriate Professional license
qualifications.

So all our Leonard needs do is move to Canada and see if professional
credentials are recognized there. Then he can apply for an amateur
radio license.

It does not work that way here nor should it. With Len's professional
credentials, it should be a snap for him to obtain an amateur radio
license in his own country. The fact is, Len doesn't care about
obtaining an amateur radio license. He is only a self-appointed
advocate for change in an endeavor in which he is not a participant.


It would seem to me that this makes perfect sense - radio operation is
radio operation, and the Pros have made a career of it - and invested
considerably more education, time, effort and ongoing training than
would be possible for most hobbyists. After all, it would be pretty
silly for the folks at the local photo club to argue that Yosuf
Karsh's pictures were pretty good, but not up to "Amateur" standards!

I'm not so sure about that. I've had communications professionals try
to have me QSY an RTTY circuit from a 9 MHz frequency in late afternoon
to a 24 MHz frequency for a path which was only several hundred miles.
Most hams with any experience can tell you that such a path regulary
requires lower frequencies, not higher ones.


After all, the testing done for Amateur licences today is pretty easy
to pass, even without a formal education in electronics. Too easy,
I'd say, but that is another issue......(when 7 year olds can pass
exams with questions requiring calculation of squares, logs and
complex numbers - which sure as heck weren't part of my kids Grade 2
syllabus - I start thinking rote memorization of question pools....)

If it is so easy, a (and let me use Len's term) RADIO PROFESSIONAL
should have no trouble at all passing it. What would be the motivation
for a licensing "gimme"?

A question - was a similar arrangement for the recognition of
professional credentials in the Amateur service ever in place in the
US? With the reciprocity agreement between Canada and the US, someone
who has obtained their Amateur licence based on their Professional
qualifications automatically gains full Amateur operating privileges
when travelling in the US. One would think it logical for this
arrangement to be bidirectional, n'est pas?

There is no such mechanism available in the United States. A U.S.
citizen licensed in Canada may not use his Canadian license when
operating from the U.S.

Dave K8MN

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 18:57:45 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

Leo wrote:

snip

A question - was a similar arrangement for the recognition of
professional credentials in the Amateur service ever in place in the
US? With the reciprocity agreement between Canada and the US, someone
who has obtained their Amateur licence based on their Professional
qualifications automatically gains full Amateur operating privileges
when travelling in the US. One would think it logical for this
arrangement to be bidirectional, n'est pas?

There is no such mechanism available in the United States. A U.S.
citizen licensed in Canada may not use his Canadian license when
operating from the U.S.

That's not quite what I said, Dave. If a Canadian with a Commercial
licence obtains an Amateur licence vis this program, that Amateur
licence is covered under the existing reciprocity agreement - it is a
standard Amateur licence.

Your point is interesting, however - one need only be a resident of
Canada to qualify for an amateur license - not a citizen. If a US
citizen living in Canada obtains a Canadian amateur license, how would
that be illegal to use in the US?


Dave K8MN

73, Leo

Leo wrote:

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 18:57:45 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

Leo wrote:

snip

A question - was a similar arrangement for the recognition of
professional credentials in the Amateur service ever in place in the
US? With the reciprocity agreement between Canada and the US, someone
who has obtained their Amateur licence based on their Professional
qualifications automatically gains full Amateur operating privileges
when travelling in the US. One would think it logical for this
arrangement to be bidirectional, n'est pas?

There is no such mechanism available in the United States. A U.S.
citizen licensed in Canada may not use his Canadian license when
operating from the U.S.

That's not quite what I said, Dave. If a Canadian with a Commercial
licence obtains an Amateur licence vis this program, that Amateur
licence is covered under the existing reciprocity agreement - it is a
standard Amateur licence.

A Canadian with a valid Canadian amateur radio license may use the
license in the U.S. under reciprocal agreement, no matter if he receives
it by passing the exam or receives it by virtue of his professional
standing.
The only means by which someone may obtain a U.S. amateur license is by
passing the exam.

Your point is interesting, however - one need only be a resident of
Canada to qualify for an amateur license - not a citizen. If a US
citizen living in Canada obtains a Canadian amateur license, how would
that be illegal to use in the US?

....because that individual then falls under U.S., not Canadian law.

Dave K8MN

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 22:39:41 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

Leo wrote:

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 18:57:45 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

Leo wrote:

snip

A question - was a similar arrangement for the recognition of
professional credentials in the Amateur service ever in place in the
US? With the reciprocity agreement between Canada and the US, someone
who has obtained their Amateur licence based on their Professional
qualifications automatically gains full Amateur operating privileges
when travelling in the US. One would think it logical for this
arrangement to be bidirectional, n'est pas?

There is no such mechanism available in the United States. A U.S.
citizen licensed in Canada may not use his Canadian license when
operating from the U.S.

That's not quite what I said, Dave. If a Canadian with a Commercial
licence obtains an Amateur licence vis this program, that Amateur
licence is covered under the existing reciprocity agreement - it is a
standard Amateur licence.

A Canadian with a valid Canadian amateur radio license may use the
license in the U.S. under reciprocal agreement, no matter if he receives
it by passing the exam or receives it by virtue of his professional
standing.
The only means by which someone may obtain a U.S. amateur license is by
passing the exam.

Your point is interesting, however - one need only be a resident of
Canada to qualify for an amateur license - not a citizen. If a US
citizen living in Canada obtains a Canadian amateur license, how would
that be illegal to use in the US?

...because that individual then falls under U.S., not Canadian law.

I think you're right, Dave - the text of the US reciprocal agreement
refers to the country of citizenship of the foreign amateur, not the
country of residence. Our reciprocal agreement simply requires a US
license, and makes no mention of the citizenship of the amateur.

Wonder why it's called a reciprocal agreement when it isn't quite
reciprocal?


Dave K8MN

73, Leo

Leo wrote:

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 22:39:41 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

Leo wrote:

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 18:57:45 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

Leo wrote:

snip

A question - was a similar arrangement for the recognition of
professional credentials in the Amateur service ever in place in the
US? With the reciprocity agreement between Canada and the US, someone
who has obtained their Amateur licence based on their Professional
qualifications automatically gains full Amateur operating privileges
when travelling in the US. One would think it logical for this
arrangement to be bidirectional, n'est pas?

There is no such mechanism available in the United States. A U.S.
citizen licensed in Canada may not use his Canadian license when
operating from the U.S.

That's not quite what I said, Dave. If a Canadian with a Commercial
licence obtains an Amateur licence vis this program, that Amateur
licence is covered under the existing reciprocity agreement - it is a
standard Amateur licence.

A Canadian with a valid Canadian amateur radio license may use the
license in the U.S. under reciprocal agreement, no matter if he receives
it by passing the exam or receives it by virtue of his professional
standing.
The only means by which someone may obtain a U.S. amateur license is by
passing the exam.

Your point is interesting, however - one need only be a resident of
Canada to qualify for an amateur license - not a citizen. If a US
citizen living in Canada obtains a Canadian amateur license, how would
that be illegal to use in the US?

...because that individual then falls under U.S., not Canadian law.

I think you're right, Dave - the text of the US reciprocal agreement
refers to the country of citizenship of the foreign amateur, not the
country of residence. Our reciprocal agreement simply requires a US
license, and makes no mention of the citizenship of the amateur.

Wonder why it's called a reciprocal agreement when it isn't quite
reciprocal?

That's an easy one: Canada's radio amateurs may operate in the United
States without passing a U.S. license exam. U.S. radio amateurs may
operate in Canada without passing a Canadian license exam.

During my second assignment to Helsinki (three years), the Finns wanted
me to pass a Finnish exam and use an OH2--- callsign because it was
their belief that reciprocal operation was intended only for short
duration.
They kindly backed off when I pointed out that no such thing was
outlined in their regs. I was OH2/K8MN for that entire period. ITU
recommendations changed between my first tour in Finland and my second.
For the first, I was K8MN/OH2. One eastern european amateur began
giving me hell over the air in the 1980's for not using "OH2/K8MN" after
those recommendations came out. I told him that I couldn't very well
use a call other than the one issued on my Finnish license.

Dave K8MN

On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 16:57:40 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

Leo wrote:

snip

I think you're right, Dave - the text of the US reciprocal agreement
refers to the country of citizenship of the foreign amateur, not the
country of residence. Our reciprocal agreement simply requires a US
license, and makes no mention of the citizenship of the amateur.

Wonder why it's called a reciprocal agreement when it isn't quite
reciprocal?

That's an easy one: Canada's radio amateurs may operate in the United
States without passing a U.S. license exam. U.S. radio amateurs may
operate in Canada without passing a Canadian license exam.

That part makes sense - it's the citizenship wording with respect to
the license holder on one side of the agreement which doesn't exist on
the other side that puzzles me.


During my second assignment to Helsinki (three years), the Finns wanted
me to pass a Finnish exam and use an OH2--- callsign because it was
their belief that reciprocal operation was intended only for short
duration.
They kindly backed off when I pointed out that no such thing was
outlined in their regs. I was OH2/K8MN for that entire period. ITU
recommendations changed between my first tour in Finland and my second.
For the first, I was K8MN/OH2. One eastern european amateur began
giving me hell over the air in the 1980's for not using "OH2/K8MN" after
those recommendations came out. I told him that I couldn't very well
use a call other than the one issued on my Finnish license.

Now that would have been an interesting place to work Europe from.
You were lucky to have had that opportunity, Dave - I wouldn't mind
trying that!


Dave K8MN

73, Leo

Leo wrote in news:l4sc20paffg83im2fdbg3qctrgitffnaj7@
4ax.com:

On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 16:57:40 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

Leo wrote:

snip

I think you're right, Dave - the text of the US reciprocal agreement
refers to the country of citizenship of the foreign amateur, not the
country of residence. Our reciprocal agreement simply requires a US
license, and makes no mention of the citizenship of the amateur.

Wonder why it's called a reciprocal agreement when it isn't quite
reciprocal?

That's an easy one: Canada's radio amateurs may operate in the United
States without passing a U.S. license exam. U.S. radio amateurs may
operate in Canada without passing a Canadian license exam.

That part makes sense - it's the citizenship wording with respect to
the license holder on one side of the agreement which doesn't exist on
the other side that puzzles me.


During my second assignment to Helsinki (three years), the Finns wanted
me to pass a Finnish exam and use an OH2--- callsign because it was
their belief that reciprocal operation was intended only for short
duration. They kindly backed off when I pointed out that no such thing
was outlined in their regs. I was OH2/K8MN for that entire period. ITU
recommendations changed between my first tour in Finland and my second.
For the first, I was K8MN/OH2. One eastern european amateur began
giving me hell over the air in the 1980's for not using "OH2/K8MN" after
those recommendations came out. I told him that I couldn't very well
use a call other than the one issued on my Finnish license.

Now that would have been an interesting place to work Europe from.
You were lucky to have had that opportunity, Dave - I wouldn't mind
trying that!


Dave K8MN

73, Leo


Have the Canadian rules changed? The last time I read it you had to be both
a US citizen and a US resident to qualify. I'm not an American (or a
Canadian either) so I couldn't operate in Canada using my US call.

The rules I read were certainly not reciprocal, though. An American with a
US call and residing in the US could operate in Canada for only 2 months
within the terms of the nearest Canadian licence (No WARC bands or 40m for
Generals!), whereas a Canadian with a Canadian call could operate
indefinitely in the US, even living here permanently, under the terms of
their Canadian licence (not to exceed Extra).

In article , Leo
writes:

Wonder why it's called a reciprocal agreement when it isn't quite
reciprocal?

Perhaps because so many America-firsters want to be "one
over everyone else?" :-)

LHA / WMD