On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 22:39:41 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

Leo wrote:

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 18:57:45 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

Leo wrote:

snip

A question - was a similar arrangement for the recognition of
professional credentials in the Amateur service ever in place in the
US? With the reciprocity agreement between Canada and the US, someone
who has obtained their Amateur licence based on their Professional
qualifications automatically gains full Amateur operating privileges
when travelling in the US. One would think it logical for this
arrangement to be bidirectional, n'est pas?

There is no such mechanism available in the United States. A U.S.
citizen licensed in Canada may not use his Canadian license when
operating from the U.S.

That's not quite what I said, Dave. If a Canadian with a Commercial
licence obtains an Amateur licence vis this program, that Amateur
licence is covered under the existing reciprocity agreement - it is a
standard Amateur licence.

A Canadian with a valid Canadian amateur radio license may use the
license in the U.S. under reciprocal agreement, no matter if he receives
it by passing the exam or receives it by virtue of his professional
standing.
The only means by which someone may obtain a U.S. amateur license is by
passing the exam.

Your point is interesting, however - one need only be a resident of
Canada to qualify for an amateur license - not a citizen. If a US
citizen living in Canada obtains a Canadian amateur license, how would
that be illegal to use in the US?

...because that individual then falls under U.S., not Canadian law.

I think you're right, Dave - the text of the US reciprocal agreement
refers to the country of citizenship of the foreign amateur, not the
country of residence. Our reciprocal agreement simply requires a US
license, and makes no mention of the citizenship of the amateur.

Wonder why it's called a reciprocal agreement when it isn't quite
reciprocal?


Dave K8MN

73, Leo

Leo wrote:

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 22:39:41 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

Leo wrote:

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 18:57:45 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

Leo wrote:

snip

A question - was a similar arrangement for the recognition of
professional credentials in the Amateur service ever in place in the
US? With the reciprocity agreement between Canada and the US, someone
who has obtained their Amateur licence based on their Professional
qualifications automatically gains full Amateur operating privileges
when travelling in the US. One would think it logical for this
arrangement to be bidirectional, n'est pas?

There is no such mechanism available in the United States. A U.S.
citizen licensed in Canada may not use his Canadian license when
operating from the U.S.

That's not quite what I said, Dave. If a Canadian with a Commercial
licence obtains an Amateur licence vis this program, that Amateur
licence is covered under the existing reciprocity agreement - it is a
standard Amateur licence.

A Canadian with a valid Canadian amateur radio license may use the
license in the U.S. under reciprocal agreement, no matter if he receives
it by passing the exam or receives it by virtue of his professional
standing.
The only means by which someone may obtain a U.S. amateur license is by
passing the exam.

Your point is interesting, however - one need only be a resident of
Canada to qualify for an amateur license - not a citizen. If a US
citizen living in Canada obtains a Canadian amateur license, how would
that be illegal to use in the US?

...because that individual then falls under U.S., not Canadian law.

I think you're right, Dave - the text of the US reciprocal agreement
refers to the country of citizenship of the foreign amateur, not the
country of residence. Our reciprocal agreement simply requires a US
license, and makes no mention of the citizenship of the amateur.

Wonder why it's called a reciprocal agreement when it isn't quite
reciprocal?

That's an easy one: Canada's radio amateurs may operate in the United
States without passing a U.S. license exam. U.S. radio amateurs may
operate in Canada without passing a Canadian license exam.

During my second assignment to Helsinki (three years), the Finns wanted
me to pass a Finnish exam and use an OH2--- callsign because it was
their belief that reciprocal operation was intended only for short
duration.
They kindly backed off when I pointed out that no such thing was
outlined in their regs. I was OH2/K8MN for that entire period. ITU
recommendations changed between my first tour in Finland and my second.
For the first, I was K8MN/OH2. One eastern european amateur began
giving me hell over the air in the 1980's for not using "OH2/K8MN" after
those recommendations came out. I told him that I couldn't very well
use a call other than the one issued on my Finnish license.

Dave K8MN

On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 16:57:40 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

Leo wrote:

snip

I think you're right, Dave - the text of the US reciprocal agreement
refers to the country of citizenship of the foreign amateur, not the
country of residence. Our reciprocal agreement simply requires a US
license, and makes no mention of the citizenship of the amateur.

Wonder why it's called a reciprocal agreement when it isn't quite
reciprocal?

That's an easy one: Canada's radio amateurs may operate in the United
States without passing a U.S. license exam. U.S. radio amateurs may
operate in Canada without passing a Canadian license exam.

That part makes sense - it's the citizenship wording with respect to
the license holder on one side of the agreement which doesn't exist on
the other side that puzzles me.


During my second assignment to Helsinki (three years), the Finns wanted
me to pass a Finnish exam and use an OH2--- callsign because it was
their belief that reciprocal operation was intended only for short
duration.
They kindly backed off when I pointed out that no such thing was
outlined in their regs. I was OH2/K8MN for that entire period. ITU
recommendations changed between my first tour in Finland and my second.
For the first, I was K8MN/OH2. One eastern european amateur began
giving me hell over the air in the 1980's for not using "OH2/K8MN" after
those recommendations came out. I told him that I couldn't very well
use a call other than the one issued on my Finnish license.

Now that would have been an interesting place to work Europe from.
You were lucky to have had that opportunity, Dave - I wouldn't mind
trying that!


Dave K8MN

73, Leo

Leo wrote in news:l4sc20paffg83im2fdbg3qctrgitffnaj7@
4ax.com:

On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 16:57:40 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

Leo wrote:

snip

I think you're right, Dave - the text of the US reciprocal agreement
refers to the country of citizenship of the foreign amateur, not the
country of residence. Our reciprocal agreement simply requires a US
license, and makes no mention of the citizenship of the amateur.

Wonder why it's called a reciprocal agreement when it isn't quite
reciprocal?

That's an easy one: Canada's radio amateurs may operate in the United
States without passing a U.S. license exam. U.S. radio amateurs may
operate in Canada without passing a Canadian license exam.

That part makes sense - it's the citizenship wording with respect to
the license holder on one side of the agreement which doesn't exist on
the other side that puzzles me.


During my second assignment to Helsinki (three years), the Finns wanted
me to pass a Finnish exam and use an OH2--- callsign because it was
their belief that reciprocal operation was intended only for short
duration. They kindly backed off when I pointed out that no such thing
was outlined in their regs. I was OH2/K8MN for that entire period. ITU
recommendations changed between my first tour in Finland and my second.
For the first, I was K8MN/OH2. One eastern european amateur began
giving me hell over the air in the 1980's for not using "OH2/K8MN" after
those recommendations came out. I told him that I couldn't very well
use a call other than the one issued on my Finnish license.

Now that would have been an interesting place to work Europe from.
You were lucky to have had that opportunity, Dave - I wouldn't mind
trying that!


Dave K8MN

73, Leo


Have the Canadian rules changed? The last time I read it you had to be both
a US citizen and a US resident to qualify. I'm not an American (or a
Canadian either) so I couldn't operate in Canada using my US call.

The rules I read were certainly not reciprocal, though. An American with a
US call and residing in the US could operate in Canada for only 2 months
within the terms of the nearest Canadian licence (No WARC bands or 40m for
Generals!), whereas a Canadian with a Canadian call could operate
indefinitely in the US, even living here permanently, under the terms of
their Canadian licence (not to exceed Extra).

On 8 Feb 2004 18:21:54 GMT, Alun wrote:

snip

Have the Canadian rules changed? The last time I read it you had to be both
a US citizen and a US resident to qualify. I'm not an American (or a
Canadian either) so I couldn't operate in Canada using my US call.

The rules I read were certainly not reciprocal, though. An American with a
US call and residing in the US could operate in Canada for only 2 months
within the terms of the nearest Canadian licence (No WARC bands or 40m for
Generals!), whereas a Canadian with a Canadian call could operate
indefinitely in the US, even living here permanently, under the terms of
their Canadian licence (not to exceed Extra).

Not sure if they have changed, Alun - just discovered them when I
bacame a ham a couple of years ago! The link to the RAC page with
info on the current reciprocal agreement is:

http://www.rac.ca/regulatory/rcip.htm

and IC RIC-3, which contains the details on the various agreements, US
and other, is at:

http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/insmt-gst.nsf/vwapj/ric3.pdf/$FILE/ric3.pdf

From what I read in these documents, one need only possess a US
licence to gain full Canadian privileges appropriate to the licence
class. For countries other than the US, CEPT and IARP permits are
acceptable.

Hope that helps!

73, Leo

Leo wrote in
news
On 8 Feb 2004 18:21:54 GMT, Alun wrote:

snip

Have the Canadian rules changed? The last time I read it you had to be
both a US citizen and a US resident to qualify. I'm not an American (or
a Canadian either) so I couldn't operate in Canada using my US call.

The rules I read were certainly not reciprocal, though. An American
with a US call and residing in the US could operate in Canada for only
2 months within the terms of the nearest Canadian licence (No WARC
bands or 40m for Generals!), whereas a Canadian with a Canadian call
could operate indefinitely in the US, even living here permanently,
under the terms of their Canadian licence (not to exceed Extra).

Not sure if they have changed, Alun - just discovered them when I
bacame a ham a couple of years ago! The link to the RAC page with
info on the current reciprocal agreement is:

http://www.rac.ca/regulatory/rcip.htm

and IC RIC-3, which contains the details on the various agreements, US
and other, is at:

http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/insmt-gst.nsf/vwapj/ric3.pdf/$FI
LE/ric3.pdf

From what I read in these documents, one need only possess a US
licence to gain full Canadian privileges appropriate to the licence
class. For countries other than the US, CEPT and IARP permits are
acceptable.

Hope that helps!

73, Leo

I will have a look at those documents, but it would appear to be a change.
I was told by Industry Canada that they would not enforce the citizenship
requirement anyway under the old rules, but I didn't feel very secure to
rely on that!

73, Alun

Leo wrote in
news
On 8 Feb 2004 18:21:54 GMT, Alun wrote:

snip

Have the Canadian rules changed? The last time I read it you had to be
both a US citizen and a US resident to qualify. I'm not an American (or
a Canadian either) so I couldn't operate in Canada using my US call.

The rules I read were certainly not reciprocal, though. An American
with a US call and residing in the US could operate in Canada for only
2 months within the terms of the nearest Canadian licence (No WARC
bands or 40m for Generals!), whereas a Canadian with a Canadian call
could operate indefinitely in the US, even living here permanently,
under the terms of their Canadian licence (not to exceed Extra).

Not sure if they have changed, Alun - just discovered them when I
bacame a ham a couple of years ago! The link to the RAC page with
info on the current reciprocal agreement is:

http://www.rac.ca/regulatory/rcip.htm

and IC RIC-3, which contains the details on the various agreements, US
and other, is at:

http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/insmt-gst.nsf/vwapj/ric3.pdf/$FI
LE/ric3.pdf

From what I read in these documents, one need only possess a US
licence to gain full Canadian privileges appropriate to the licence
class. For countries other than the US, CEPT and IARP permits are
acceptable.

Hope that helps!

73, Leo

The first page talks about 'Americans operating in Canada', but I am not an
American, just someone with a US licence! That is the problem.

Reading further, RIC-2 limits operation under the bilateral agreement to US
citizens who are US residents, just as the previous rules did.

However, in RIC-3 it says that operating in Canada is possible under CEPT.

I cannot use my US licence under CEPT, as the CEPT letter that the FCC
publish says that it is only valid for US citizens (I've no idea why, as
the CEPT treaty does not mention citizenship anywhere).

However, if I got my UK licence re-activated it would automatically be
valid in Canada under CEPT. Someone who wasn't British would still be able
to do that, although I am actually a British citizen. I often go across the
border to Windsor when I visit Detroit, but I have never operated on the
Canadian side. It seems if I did so it would have to be as VE3/G8VUK, after
first getting my UK licence back.

73 de Alun, N3KIP

On 9 Feb 2004 06:12:11 GMT, Alun wrote:

Leo wrote in
news
On 8 Feb 2004 18:21:54 GMT, Alun wrote:

snip

Have the Canadian rules changed? The last time I read it you had to be
both a US citizen and a US resident to qualify. I'm not an American (or
a Canadian either) so I couldn't operate in Canada using my US call.


The rules I read were certainly not reciprocal, though. An American
with a US call and residing in the US could operate in Canada for only
2 months within the terms of the nearest Canadian licence (No WARC
bands or 40m for Generals!), whereas a Canadian with a Canadian call
could operate indefinitely in the US, even living here permanently,
under the terms of their Canadian licence (not to exceed Extra).

Not sure if they have changed, Alun - just discovered them when I
bacame a ham a couple of years ago! The link to the RAC page with
info on the current reciprocal agreement is:

http://www.rac.ca/regulatory/rcip.htm

and IC RIC-3, which contains the details on the various agreements, US
and other, is at:

http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/insmt-gst.nsf/vwapj/ric3.pdf/$FI
LE/ric3.pdf

From what I read in these documents, one need only possess a US
licence to gain full Canadian privileges appropriate to the licence
class. For countries other than the US, CEPT and IARP permits are
acceptable.

Hope that helps!

73, Leo

The first page talks about 'Americans operating in Canada', but I am not an
American, just someone with a US licence! That is the problem.

Reading further, RIC-2 limits operation under the bilateral agreement to US
citizens who are US residents, just as the previous rules did.

You're right - I missed that completely. I should have looked it up
RIC-2 as well, I suppose!


However, in RIC-3 it says that operating in Canada is possible under CEPT.

I cannot use my US licence under CEPT, as the CEPT letter that the FCC
publish says that it is only valid for US citizens (I've no idea why, as
the CEPT treaty does not mention citizenship anywhere).

However, if I got my UK licence re-activated it would automatically be
valid in Canada under CEPT. Someone who wasn't British would still be able
to do that, although I am actually a British citizen. I often go across the
border to Windsor when I visit Detroit, but I have never operated on the
Canadian side. It seems if I did so it would have to be as VE3/G8VUK, after
first getting my UK licence back.

Which seems like a pretty cumbersome process - I wonder why the
citizenship rules were placed in the US/Canada agreement? One would
think that the licence would be sufficient to prove competence, and
residency to prove QTH...


73 de Alun, N3KIP

73, Leo

Alun wrote in message . ..
Leo wrote in
news
On 8 Feb 2004 18:21:54 GMT, Alun wrote:

snip

Have the Canadian rules changed? The last time I read it you had to be
both a US citizen and a US resident to qualify. I'm not an American (or
a Canadian either) so I couldn't operate in Canada using my US call.

The rules I read were certainly not reciprocal, though. An American
with a US call and residing in the US could operate in Canada for only
2 months within the terms of the nearest Canadian licence (No WARC
bands or 40m for Generals!), whereas a Canadian with a Canadian call
could operate indefinitely in the US, even living here permanently,
under the terms of their Canadian licence (not to exceed Extra).

Not sure if they have changed, Alun - just discovered them when I
bacame a ham a couple of years ago! The link to the RAC page with
info on the current reciprocal agreement is:

http://www.rac.ca/regulatory/rcip.htm

and IC RIC-3, which contains the details on the various agreements, US
and other, is at:

http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/insmt-gst.nsf/vwapj/ric3.pdf/$FI
LE/ric3.pdf

From what I read in these documents, one need only possess a US
licence to gain full Canadian privileges appropriate to the licence
class. For countries other than the US, CEPT and IARP permits are
acceptable.

Hope that helps!

73, Leo

The first page talks about 'Americans operating in Canada', but I am not an
American, just someone with a US licence! That is the problem.

Reading further, RIC-2 limits operation under the bilateral agreement to US
citizens who are US residents, just as the previous rules did.

However, in RIC-3 it says that operating in Canada is possible under CEPT.

I cannot use my US licence under CEPT, as the CEPT letter that the FCC
publish says that it is only valid for US citizens (I've no idea why, as
the CEPT treaty does not mention citizenship anywhere).

However, if I got my UK licence re-activated it would automatically be
valid in Canada under CEPT. Someone who wasn't British would still be able
to do that, although I am actually a British citizen. I often go across the
border to Windsor when I visit Detroit, but I have never operated on the
Canadian side. It seems if I did so it would have to be as VE3/G8VUK, after
first getting my UK licence back.

AND you'd be able to run ssb below 7.100. Fancy that. Huge burden relieved. Move.

73 de Alun, N3KIP

w3rv

In article , Leo
writes:

Wonder why it's called a reciprocal agreement when it isn't quite
reciprocal?

Perhaps because so many America-firsters want to be "one
over everyone else?" :-)

LHA / WMD