Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
determined to be as snarly as possible scribbles in crayon:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil

writes:

You are an amateur extra, a shining role model for the amateur
community.

And you are not. You're not a Novice. Your'e not a Tech. You're not a
General. You're not an Advanced. You aren't a participant.

I am an electronics engineer, working for pecuniary interest, but no
longer at regular hours. I am also a hobbyist without pecuniary
compensation.

Right. There you go back into your professional background.

I've been working on that professional background for 51 years. :-)

....and sitting on it for just as long :-)

That isn't amateur radio.

That isn't HAM radio, sweetums. "Amateur" is defined as "without
pecuniary interest." Even the FCC defines amateur radio that way.

Looks like you're tangled in another Andersonian misdefinition.

Lots of us are hobbyists in any number of fields.

You are out standing in your field now.

You're some kind of hobbyist. You aren't a radio amateur.

Poor baby. Still so confused, scrunching up his fat little fingers,
bound and determined to Have His Way! :-)

It isn't my way. You are not a radio amateur under anyone's defintion
of the term.

Hobbyists in radio are defineable as amateurs in radio if they do not
make any income from it.

Only some SWL with delusions of grandeur would tell his friends that he
is a radio amateur. The terms "amateurs in radio" are not synonymous
with "amateur radio" or "radio amateur".

LICENSES in amateur radio are required to transmit RF on allocated
amateur radio bands in order to be legal with the federal government.

Really? You constantly amaze those of us who hold such licenses. We
had NO IDEA that such was the reason for those licenses. You're a
fountain of readily obtainable and commonly known information.

Poor baby, doesn't understand that amateur radio licenses are NO
GOOD outside of allocated amateur bands. That's true. Anyone can
verify that with Title 47 Code of Federal Regulations, especially in
Parts 1 and 2..

Well, poor Leonard, I think those of us holding such licenses are well
aware of just where in the RF sprectrum we may use them. That's another
great piece of commonly known information you've provided. I'm ever so
grateful.

Did you know that the federal government can operate all kinds of RF
emitters without having ANY operators licensed? True. A ham license
there isn't worth the price of a ham sandwich. No criminal liability!

Super "news", Len, though I don't have the slightest idea of why I'm
supposed to care.

Don't you just HATE it when your rant gets destroyed?

I dunno about anything being destroyed. It seems you've decided on a
detour.

I've been involved with radio and electronics, both with and without
pecuniary interest since 1947.

Bully for you. You haven't been involved in amateur radio at all.

:-) I haven't been involved in LICENSED amateur radio.

Just a bootlegger, huh?

Too bad I can't bring up Jim Fisk as a reference (he is SK). I don't
know about Alf Wilson, W6NIF, or Rich Rosen.

Yep, "Ham Radio" magazine and Jim Fisk are both defunct.

They were rather
involved with HAM RADIO. :-)

Yep. They were also involved in ham radio. You aren't.

I guess you really showed us, huh?

That's not difficult. :-)

You'll have to do a lot better than you've been doing.

I returned your snipped line to its rightful place. We wouldn't want
you to mislead others now, would we?

Anyone can read these public postings without your selective
editing. :-)

You did the selective edit. I replaced what you cut.

You don't seem to comprehend half of it, but that's quite another
problem and all yours.

I don't think so. If you were better able to express your thoughts and
if they reflected facts, there might not be a problem.

Right. U.S. amateur radio is a SECRET, classified service which NO
outsider can possibly know about, therefore no one can comment
unless they have an amateur license.

You can read up on it in "Now You're Talking".

Morsemanship isn't "talking." It's beeping.

You'll have to start somewhere, Len. Since the 5 wpm "Extra right out
of the box" was too high a hurdle, you might want to start with no code
test.


Right. NOBODY can become involved unless they are already involved.

Wrong. NOBODY can become unvolved until they take steps to do so.
You can read up on astronomy. That alone does not make you an
astronomer.

Oh? Astronomers need to be "licensed" and take a morse test?

Is that what you think I wrote? I'm beginning to see that you and Brian
share more than a few traits.

You can peruse magazines and books on auto repair. Those things alone
do not make you a car mechanic.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!

Riiiiight. I guess Kragen and all those auto parts stores are doomed
for lack of sales, right? :-)

I didn't bring up auto parts stores. I wrote that simply reading a book
or magazine doesn't make you a car mechanic.

Right. In order to "show interest in radio," everyone has to learn morse
code and get a ham license.

Wrong. You've been corrected on this same mis-statement of yours on a
number of occasions. It is "interest in AMATEUR radio", Leonard.

Noooo, noooo. You are desperately trying to hang on but are
inexorably drawn over the edge. It's a very long drop below you...

You can type "Noooo, noooo" until your fingers bleed. That won't change
things. Every time I've written "interest in amateur radio" or
"interested in amateur radio", you've responded with this "interest in
radio" thing. Your "interest in radio" can be satisfied by tuning in
Sean Hannity.

LICENSED amateur radio is what you are trying (vainly) to say and then
only to be legal with the federal government on transmitting RF energy
WITHIN allocated amateur radio bands. As the FCC explains, an
amateur radio license is NOT required for transmitting RF energy outside
of amateur radio bands. That sort of thing is quite illegal. :-).

Where've you been? Have a nice nap, did you?

That's only for CIVILIAN radio services and the FCC has NO jurisdiction
over government users of radio.

Great. Become a government user of radio.

But, did you know that UNLICENSED civilians can use certain allocated
radio bands and transmit RF energy without taking a single test? True!
Been several of those since 1958! Ask the FCC about non-amateur
radio services if you are too "involved" in amateur radio activity to go
look it up. :-)

Super. Enjoy your channelized slices of post-1958 spectrum. You still
aren't a radio amateur.

Neither your decades-long "interest" nor your "Extra right out of the
box" boast of several years ago have resulted in your having taken a
single step toward obtaining even the most basic level of amateur radio
license.

Poor baby. Still angry over the past?

Why would I be angry that you haven't lived up to your boast?

You STILL can't understand why I am here. I've explained it enough
times, but your have this set-in-concrete mind that can't get flexible
enough to understand. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

Nobody seems to understand why you're here. You aren't a regulator.
You aren't a radio amateur. You've commented to your government.

Right. The First Amendment of the United States Constitution states
that no citizen can comment about any amateur radio regulations unless
they already possess an amateur radio license. Right.

You've commented. End of involvement.

Not even close to the "end."

"Comments" are NOT "involvement" even in your distorted little Middle
Earth view, Frodo. [you aren't Golem, but the resemblance is there]

Comments are much involvement as you'll have in amateur radio, Leonard.

A number of them did merit explanation after you attempted to twist them
into something else. It is "interested in AMATEUR radio". Why do you
persist in deleting that very important word?

Sigh..."amateur" refers to an activity without pecuniary interest. The
FCC uses those same words. [the FCC granted your amateur radio
license]

*Sigh* You aren't a radio amateur. The FCC did not grant you an amateur
radio license.

The word "amateur" (with or without all-capitals) does not explicitly
say TRANSMISSION OF RF ENERGY IN ALLOCATED AMATEUR
RADIO BANDS. Your prized amateur radio license is NO GOOD for
legal transmission of RF energy OUTSIDE of allocated amateur bands.

More info from Leonard H. Anderson, fountain of already known
information.

In fact, in some U.S. civilian radio services it is perfectly legal to
transmit RF energy WITHOUT a license of any kind!!! Sunovagun!

That's great. Go there. Do that.

Poor baby. Another Heilian rant shot down in flames.

Len, you wouldn't want it put to a vote about who is the r.r.a.p.
ranter.


You've misdefined your interest.

Not me. YOU. All wrong, Golem...er, I mean Frodo.

I HAVE defined my "interest" quite correctly.

That you totally refuse to believe it is not my problem. Yours.

You've have never stated your obvious interest: to post frequent,
lengthy items in a newsgroup about amateur radio.

Your intellectual presbyopia is glaringly obvious.

Is it as obvious as your obsessive-compulsive need to haunt an amateur
radio newsgroup?

You have interest in internet newsgroup posting.

No more so than regular physical exercise. :-)

Typing is your idea of regular physical excercise? :-) :-)

You have interest in outlining your past professional glories.

I've spent 51 years in professional radio-electronics activity and none
of it can qualify as "glorious."


I believe you. Now just sell that idea to yourself.


Intellectually INTERESTING, yes, and
some of it quite enjoyable. If some of it was more involved than what
you did, TS, that's the breaks of life.

....and if some of it was less interesting and less involved that what I
did, you'll have to live with it. Besides, I'm a radio amateur in
addition.

Maybe your distemper is flaring up again because I got assigned to
a very large HF transmitting facility while in the U.S. Army...and got
rank and responsibility operating many high-powered HF transmitters.
51 years ago. Before your first hamme raddio license. TS for you.

Your kidding, right?

You aren't involved in amateur radio.

Not involved in TRANSMITTING RF ENERGY ON ALLOCATED HAM
BANDS, true. :-)

Don't sweat it, Len. You can inhale some of that transmitted RF energy
on allocated ham bands with your trusty Icom receiver, as an SWL.

TRANSMIT, Baggins, TRANSMIT. Like in legal RF energy within
those tight, confining HF band bounds.

Oh, we're allowed to receive too, Len. It is actually highly encouraged
to do some of both. We can even turn the stuff off and watch a movie or
read a book. I have all the room I need within to tight, confining
amateur bands denied to you.

I'm just advocating the elimination of morse code testing for any radio
license but you desperately want to make that some kind of grande
production of drama and pathos, a giant mountain built out of a mole
hill of your old morse message blanks. Tsk, tsk, tsk, you try such
theatrics! Do you have an interest in the theater? :-)

"I'm just", "I'm just". Who asked you?

Do I have an interest in theater? Oh yes. My interest extends to
attending plays and watching films. I don't attempt to tell anyone
associated with theater how to act, nor would I attempt to outline how
regulations governing theater production or movie making should be
changed. I'd never call for a minimum age for actors either.

I'll just put you down in the same emotional category as other
emotionally-seven-year-old Extras.

Those are very "involved" as long as their attention spans last... :-)

They are as involved as they'd like to be. You are as involved as you
can be.

Dave K8MN

In article , Dave Heil
writes:



I'll just put you down in the same emotional category as other
emotionally-seven-year-old Extras.

Those are very "involved" as long as their attention spans last... :-)

They are as involved as they'd like to be. You are as involved as you
can be.

Poor baby. Still INVOLVED with tossing personal insults and nasty
comments to others that don't agree with your views.

Your behavior remains constant at emotional tantrum level equal to
the average seven-year-old.

Try addressing SUBJECTS instead of the personalities who comment
against your views. Few care one whit about your perceived personal
affronts or the emotional injuries you seem to suffer while reading
these posts. Grow thicker skin.

Now go sit down in front of your tansceiver and have an oriongasm.

LHA / WMD

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

I'll just put you down in the same emotional category as other
emotionally-seven-year-old Extras.

Those are very "involved" as long as their attention spans last... :-)

They are as involved as they'd like to be. You are as involved as you
can be.

Poor baby. Still INVOLVED with tossing personal insults and nasty
comments to others that don't agree with your views.

Poor Leonard. Unable to accept a simple statement of fact. It would
make no difference if you agreed with my views. You'd still have no
involvement in amateur radio.

Your behavior remains constant at emotional tantrum level equal to
the average seven-year-old.

Leonard, meet Leonard.

Try addressing SUBJECTS instead of the personalities who comment
against your views. Few care one whit about your perceived personal
affronts or the emotional injuries you seem to suffer while reading
these posts. Grow thicker skin.

So I'm to do as you say and not as you do. Is that it?

Now go sit down in front of your tansceiver and have an oriongasm.

I'll sit in front of it or not as I choose. I'll excercise the
privileges granted by my license or I won't given my mood. I'll do as I
like; you do as you can.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote:

Len Over 21 wrote:


In article , Dave Heil
writes:



I'll just put you down in the same emotional category as other
emotionally-seven-year-old Extras.

Those are very "involved" as long as their attention spans last... :-)


They are as involved as they'd like to be. You are as involved as you
can be.


Poor baby. Still INVOLVED with tossing personal insults and nasty
comments to others that don't agree with your views.



Poor Leonard. Unable to accept a simple statement of fact. It would
make no difference if you agreed with my views. You'd still have no
involvement in amateur radio.



Your behavior remains constant at emotional tantrum level equal to
the average seven-year-old.



Leonard, meet Leonard.



Try addressing SUBJECTS instead of the personalities who comment
against your views. Few care one whit about your perceived personal
affronts or the emotional injuries you seem to suffer while reading
these posts. Grow thicker skin.



So I'm to do as you say and not as you do. Is that it?



Now go sit down in front of your tansceiver and have an oriongasm.



I'll sit in front of it or not as I choose. I'll excercise the
privileges granted by my license or I won't given my mood. I'll do as I
like; you do as you can.

Dave K8MN


Just get the damn license Len, it aint rocket science.

In article , Robert Casey
writes:

Just get the damn license Len, it aint rocket science.

I know "rocket science" after working three years at
Rocketdyne Division of Rockwell International, the makers
of the Space Shuttle Main Engine and the F1 main-stage
engines of the Saturn Rocket (Apollo Program lifter).

I've also had four other [expletive deleted] radio licenses.

[Rev. Jim don' lak no cuss words in heah, he say dat...]

Over a half century ago I was OPERATING on HF with not
one, but 43 transmitters each 8 hour shift...plus the VHF,
UHF, and microwave radio relay equipment associated
with it.

At no time in my career have I been required to know or to
use morse code to legally transmit on HF. In order to
transmit on HF in the U.S. ham bands I MUST test for that.
Why? No other radio service requires anything of the kind.

This newsgroup isn't moderated, doesn't have restricted
access. No ham license (from either FCC or FDA) is
required in here. It sounds fishy that you have a beef with
someone in here and I'd say y'all just laid a aig.

Until you close off this place to any but "your own kind,"
I be here when _I_ want to be here. You can bet your
[expletive deleted] [expletive deleted] on that, [expletive
deleted] !

Have fun with all the rest of the mental seven-year-old
extras.

LHA / WMD

Subject: New Candidate for 'Youngest Extra'
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 4/2/2004 4:19 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article , Robert Casey
writes:

Just get the damn license Len, it aint rocket science.

I know "rocket science" after working three years at
Rocketdyne Division of Rockwell International, the makers
of the Space Shuttle Main Engine and the F1 main-stage
engines of the Saturn Rocket (Apollo Program lifter).

I am sure that while cleaning the floors and emptying out thier ashtrays
and coffee cups, you got to know a LOT of "rocket scientists"...Probably even
picked up enough "lingo" to impress some "young thing" at a bar long enough to
get his pants off....

I've also had four other [expletive deleted] radio licenses.

The best [expletive deleted] radio licenses money could buy.

But none of them an Amateur Radio license.

Putz.

Steve, K4YZ

I hereby propose that we rename RRAP to "rec.Steve, Len, and a few others
rag on each other endlessly.alt"
and create a new newsgroup for those of us who really would like to discuss
amateur radio regulatory and policy
issues ...

I'm getting REALLY tired of all of this endless, childish bickering that is
OT and doesn't belong here ...
most days, it's hard to find the stuff that this newsgroup is supposed to
be for because of the volume
of petty, personal bickering that you guys load the newsgroup up with ...

Or, alternatively, you guys can go rag on each other in
rec.radio.amateur.misc like it used to be (and why
this group was created in the first place if memory serves me correctly - to
provide a place for the serious
regulatory/policy discussion after rec.radio.amateur.misc turned into the
sort of argue_about_off_topic_things
fest that you guys have going on here ...

OK, there ... I've said my peace and now you can tell me to [expletive
deleted for Jim's benefit] off ...

Carl - wk3c

"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message
...
Subject: New Candidate for 'Youngest Extra'
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 4/2/2004 4:19 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article , Robert Casey
writes:

Just get the damn license Len, it aint rocket science.

I know "rocket science" after working three years at
Rocketdyne Division of Rockwell International, the makers
of the Space Shuttle Main Engine and the F1 main-stage
engines of the Saturn Rocket (Apollo Program lifter).

I am sure that while cleaning the floors and emptying out thier
ashtrays
and coffee cups, you got to know a LOT of "rocket scientists"...Probably
even
picked up enough "lingo" to impress some "young thing" at a bar long
enough to
get his pants off....

I've also had four other [expletive deleted] radio licenses.

The best [expletive deleted] radio licenses money could buy.

But none of them an Amateur Radio license.

Putz.

Steve, K4YZ

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...

Putz.

Steve, K4YZ

Forever calling other people names.