"Robert Casey" wrote in message
...
Dee D. Flint wrote:


The actual problem is stems from several elements. 1) Most people
outside
of amateur radio have never heard of it. So even if they might be
inclined
to pursue this hobby, they will never be involved. 2) Amateur radio, as
with any specialized activity, is only going to appeal to a limited
number
of people in the first place. 3) There is a greater multitude of
hobbies
and activities available today than ever before. People have to make
choices on how to spend their time and money.



Some people probably will choose a hobby that doesn't require taking a
test
to get a license to do it. So we have to get a prospective ham person
past
that chore. Not a big chore, but still a chore.


It only takes a very tiny bit of encouragement to get them to take the test
if their interest is more than just a "that's kind of interesting" level.

The biggest problem remains the fact that so few people have heard of
amateur radio. Today we are at the point where there are even people who
haven't even heard of CB.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo writes:


Now that the element 1 requirement is likely to go away, why do NCVEC,


ARRL, and even Hans' proposals simply set up a new caste system? There
is nothing wrong with levels of certification, but they should make some
sense.

The only logical argument that I can accept for the punitive measures
of power limitations and the ridiculous restrictions on homebrewing and
the "final voltage restrictions for the lowest class of operation is
just the creation of another group of "great unwashed"

We DON'T learn do we?


Apparently there's NO reading, either. The only power limitation of
the NECVEC petition-proposal is in a 400 KHz low sub-band on 10m
for the three lower classes.

Re-read the NECVEC petition-proposal and report back.

I have, and are you talking about something else? I took NECVEC to be a
typo, since NCVEC is a group that put forth a proposal some time ago.
Perhaps you are referring to a different group?

At any rate, No need to modify my argument if you are referring to the
NCVEC and not the NECVEC.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Dave Heil wrote in message ...

I have a caste system for you, Len: Everyone who has an amateur radio
license is "in". You're "out".

Dave K8MN

We'll see.

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

I have, and are you talking about something else? I took NECVEC to be a

typo, since NCVEC is a group that put forth a proposal some time ago.
Perhaps you are referring to a different group?

At any rate, No need to modify my argument if you are referring to the
NCVEC and not the NECVEC.

My apologies, most noble of high rank amateurdom.

A mere typo...and you vulture-wannabes are attracted as to carrion.

NEC = Numerical Electromagnetic Code (method of moments
computer calculation for EM fields)

NEC = National Electrical Code (for electric power distribution)

NC = No Comment...the left hand middle finger trembled on the E
key as I laughed in trying to suppress The Finger sign?

:-)

LHA / WMD

In article , Mike Coslo writes:

Can anyone come up with a good rationale for not teaching RF safety in
some depth at the lowest level of license class? Are these newbies worth
less to us?

Newbies aren't worth anything to you royal, noble AMATEUR
licensees.

That's a given. QED by everything in Google. :-)

Is the FCC supposed to enforce OHSA, too?

Surgeon General's office?

How about the Center for Disease Control? :-)

LHA / WMD

In article ,
(William) writes:

The only logical argument that I can accept for the punitive measures
of power limitations and the ridiculous restrictions on homebrewing and
the "final voltage restrictions for the lowest class of operation is
just the creation of another group of "great unwashed"

We DON'T learn do we?


- Mike KB3EIA -

I can hear Larry now, "I'm a Superior Ham because I have higher voltage
finals..."

Or Bruce, "Know Ham = Know Voltage."

Billy:

I am a superior ham (to you) because I took the time and made the effort
to gain the technical knowledge and operating skill required for me to earn
the privilige of using higher-voltage finals. Unfortunately, all of you lazy,
whining no-coders can only complain about a "caste system!" Well,
don't look now, but you, the unwashed "lower caste," will always be that
way -- since you will obviously not have the same technical competence
and operating skill as your "upper caste" superiors! You have made the
choice to be the underclass, and there you shall remain -- no matter
what happens to the licensing structure!

73 de Larry, K3LT

In article , Mike Coslo writes:

Now that the element 1 requirement is likely to go away, why do NCVEC,
ARRL, and even Hans' proposals simply set up a new caste system? There
is nothing wrong with levels of certification, but they should make some
sense.

Mike,

There are two reasons for low power/limited privileges for the entry level
license:

1) To simplify the tests needed for the entry-level license (if you can't run
more than X watts, or are not allowed on a certain band, you don't need to be
tested on it)

2) To give an incentive (challenge) to learn more and qualify for a higher
class license. (If the entry-level license conveys all privileges, why bother
to upgrade?)

The term "caste" isn't really accurate, though. "Caste" is something a person
is born into and cannot escape, regardless of personal accomplishment. "Class"
would be more accurate, because upward mobility is possible.

The limitations on homebrewing and final voltage proposed by NCVEC are
unenforceable, pointless and would cut off Communicators from an important part
of amateur radio for no justifiable reason.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Len Over 21 wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


I have, and are you talking about something else? I took NECVEC to be a


typo, since NCVEC is a group that put forth a proposal some time ago.
Perhaps you are referring to a different group?

At any rate, No need to modify my argument if you are referring to the
NCVEC and not the NECVEC.


My apologies, most noble of high rank amateurdom.

No need to apologize, Len. Thanks for the clarification.

- Mike KB3EIA -

N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo writes:


Now that the element 1 requirement is likely to go away, why do NCVEC,
ARRL, and even Hans' proposals simply set up a new caste system? There
is nothing wrong with levels of certification, but they should make some
sense.


Mike,

There are two reasons for low power/limited privileges for the entry level
license:

1) To simplify the tests needed for the entry-level license (if you can't run
more than X watts, or are not allowed on a certain band, you don't need to be
tested on it)

Sure, but I'm not even close to convinced that any tests need or should
be simplified. I wonder if anyone can provide evidence that the those
giving the tests are being overburdened?


2) To give an incentive (challenge) to learn more and qualify for a higher
class license. (If the entry-level license conveys all privileges, why bother
to upgrade?)


But my idea, or non-idea does just that, without punitive power
restrictions based on what I consider bogus rationale. For those that
are happy to just ve on VHF and above, the Technician ticket is just the
thing. Want HF access? Take the General test! Without Element one, there
isn't anything to hold ya back.

From what I see, simply removing Element 1 and letting the dust settle
is a better plan than either the NCVEC or ARRL plans.



The term "caste" isn't really accurate, though. "Caste" is something a person
is born into and cannot escape, regardless of personal accomplishment. "Class"
would be more accurate, because upward mobility is possible.

The term caste is used mainly for the class aspect, not based on the
religion aspect. Evil Extra's being reincarnated as CB'ers comes to
mind! ;^)


The limitations on homebrewing and final voltage proposed by NCVEC are
unenforceable, pointless and would cut off Communicators from an important part
of amateur radio for no justifiable reason.

Agreed 100 percent!


- Mike KB3EIA -

Subject: Why the caste system? was: NCVEC files license restructuring
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 3/19/2004 6:58 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:
N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo writes:
Now that the element 1 requirement is likely to go away, why do NCVEC,
ARRL, and even Hans' proposals simply set up a new caste system? There
is nothing wrong with levels of certification, but they should make some
sense.
Mike,

There are two reasons for low power/limited privileges for the entry level
license:

1) To simplify the tests needed for the entry-level license (if you can't
run
more than X watts, or are not allowed on a certain band, you don't need to
be
tested on it)

Sure, but I'm not even close to convinced that any tests need or should

be simplified. I wonder if anyone can provide evidence that the those
giving the tests are being overburdened?

What I am wondering is why everyone wants to set these power levels low to
avoid testing on questions about SAFETY!

We're talking about requiring some knowledge that might prevent the person
from hurting himself or others. Why are we so anxious to avoid them..?!?!

73

Steve, K4YZ