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Old March 23rd 04, 10:29 PM
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Default ARRL's Incoming QSL Burro Screwing NON ARRL members!

K8CPA has personally given me permission to post this he

enjoy...

===========

From: "chuck"
To: ; ;
Subject: Envalope
Date: Monday, March 22, 2004 8:25 PM

Greetings,

Did you ever come across my envelope, for my Cards?

73 de K8CPA

-Chuck Adkins

P.S. I know it's been long enough, it's been almost 11 months since I sent the
thing.
===
To: g
From: chuck
Subject: Envalope
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To: . net
References:

Hello Jay,

I'm not quite sure what to make of that reply. However, I did get a e-mail
saying I did have cards a while back and that he needed two dollers and some
change worth of stamps and a envelope, which I did send to him almost 11 months
ago, last I checked, no one had seen the envelope, now, I'm not blaming you all
for this, if it got lost, then, it got lost, I'll just have to send another
one, might send it certified, to make sure it makes it.

I just want to get my cards, that's all, a nasty attitude, is something I
really don't need.

Thank You.

-Chuck K8CPA



At 08:44 PM 3/22/2004 -0500, wrote:
Jim,
If you have an envelope for K8CPA, please send it to him immediately with

however many cards you may have for him, even if it is 1 or less.

Thanks,
Jay, K4ZLE
================================================= ===========
From: "chuck"
Date: 2004/03/22 Mon PM 08:25:26 EST
To: , ,
Subject: Envalope

Greetings,

Did you ever come across my envelope, for my Cards?

73 de K8CPA

-Chuck Adkins

P.S. I know it's been long enough, it's been almost 11 months since I sent the

thing.



================================================= ===========



===

To: "James Weaver"
From: chuck
Subject: Envalope
Cc:
Bcc:

X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To: [email protected]
References: [email protected]

At 10:53 PM 3/22/2004 -0500, James Weaver wrote:



Look Jim, I'm gonn say this one time and one time only, I DO NOT WANT YOUR
MEMBERSHIP OK? I want my cards, if I don't not recieve my card with the next 7
days, I AM going to get a attorney and file a lawsuit in small claims court
against the League for the loss of money, I'm getting stinking sick and tired
of getting the damn run around with you jack asses, and if I don't get what I
want, I'll get it in a court of law!

Now get me my damn cards!

and quit the damn stallin'

-Chuck K8CPA

P.S. I got an e-mail from n8cxq saying I had cards, I sent envelopes and
postage and the damn things never made it, this was over 11 months ago, there's
NO EXCUSE FOR THIS AT ALL!!!!! someone ain't doing their job right or the post
office lost them, way I see it, I should get a check from the ARRL for the
envelopes lost and the postage. and Get my cards sent to ME on YOUR
Organzations Dime!
and this is what I will seek in court, if this doesn't happen. I'm tired of the
games Jim and if it don't stop, I'll take it to court. Consider yourself
warned.


=========

To: Jay Slough
From: chuck
Subject: Envalope
Cc:
,
Bcc:

X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To:
References:

..Chuck,
..This is my last message on this subject. I depart the area for several .weeks
and will not be answering anymore bureau correspondence .until I return.
However, I meant what I said. You provided no data for .me to know what had
transpired previously. I get many inquiries .about bureau status and do not
maintain a file of past .correspondence, assuming you did send me something on
this .previously. Since you said something about 11 months ago and I .was not
the manager 11 months ago, my assumption is that we had .not corresponded
before. Since I read your message as, "Where are .my cards?", I responded to
the letter manager to send you anything .he had, including an empty envelope so
you would know there was .nothing for you. The bureau is a service provided by
volunteers. We .do the best we can to serve all amateurs with an 8 in their
call.

I understand your position, and I in no way wanted to start a ****ing
contest... however, I do believe you were in the position you were in, and I
remember e-mailing a while back, say 2-3 months ago, and asked where my cards
where and all I got was, ZERO response from you or the person doing your job,
and a bleeding heart plea from the Michigan section manager to join the ARRL.
Which I have not the means to do, Nor do I have the interest in belonging to a
organzation that puts the interest of the radio manufactures first and THEN the
hams, if the ARRL is going to get my money, the good ol' boys, need to make
alot of Changes in the way they handle things. But, that isn't the point here,
the point is, my envalope just disappeared from sight, and no one seems to give
a S### about it, or me, because, I'm not a member of the "Good ol' Boys Club",
Well, that's fine, when my attorney contacts the "Boy's" in CT, we'll see who's
gonna blow who off... :-)




..Now, lets examine your situation in a bit more depth.

Sure. I'm good for a fight, no problem...




..FACTS:
..You received notification that you had cards at the bureau and no .envelopes
on file.

Yes, your doing good so far.




..You sent the requested envelope but did not receive your cards after ." x "
amount of time.

Yes, like 5 months... and I asked, and got the same ol' B.S. message and
bleeding heart plea to join an organization. WHICH I DON'T HAVE THE MEANS TO DO
SO, AT THE MOMENT AND REALLY DON'T CARE TO DO!!! and now, 11 months later, I
ask again and get the same thing....






..You made a query to someone, maybe me, about the status and .were informed
that no one had seen your envelope

Yes, and recieved no answer from the 8th area manager.
and N8CXQ said he had not seen my envalope. What I wanna know is, where did it
go??? Did you all even see it?


..Now, "y " time later, you send an email out of the blue asking if we .have
received your envelope yet with no explanation of past history.
..You say you might need to send a new envelope via certified mail.
..You say you just want your cards, not an attitude

I explaned my past history over and over and over and over and ALL I GET IS THE
FLIPPING BLEEDING F'ING HEART PLEA TO JOIN THE ARRL, I DON'T WANT TO JOIN THE
GODDAMNED ARRL, IF I DID I WOULD HAVE ALREADY DO SO, JUST SEND ME MY DAMN
CARDS! WHY IN THE HELL IS IT SO FLIPPING HARD FOR YOU PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND
THIS, MY ENVALOPE GOT LOST. CAN'T YOU PEOPLE JUST PICK UP ANOTHER ENVALOPE AND
PUT A FEW STAMPS ON IT AND SEND MY CARDS TO ME?????!?!?!?!?!?!?!? IS IT THAT SO
HARD?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I hate to start swearing, but I can't seem to get anyone to understand
anything, it's like dealing with a bunch of damn retards!





..RESPONSE:
..If you really wanted your cards why didn't you have envelopes on file .before
you were notified?

Simple. Money issues! ever think that there is people out that, that CANNOT
AFFORD TO HAVE CARDS ON FILE???? HUH? NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT DID YOU????



..No mention is made of timing between when you were notified and .when you
responded. - If you did not respond within 90 days there is .a fair chance
your cards were returned or destroyed before an .envelope arrived.

I responded right away, this isn't the issue, the issue is you guys LOST my
envalope or tossed it in the trash, because you all got a axe to grind with me,
because I happen to think the Michigan section is run by a bunch of LIDS,
NO-CODE Idiots, and you all know this and wanna give me a hard time. well,
fine, do it, but when my attorney gets done with you all, there won't be a
ARRL!



..If the timing was sufficient between when you sent the envelope and .you were
told it had not arrived, why did you not assume it was lost in .the process
someplace and that you needed to send another .envelope then?

again, MONEY ISSUES! I'm out of work, and I had to barrow money from my
parents. is that a good enough answer for you?




..If you think I have an attitude, I appologize. I put in over 8 hours a

Yeah, yeah, yeah.... don't patronize me with your crap. just get me my cards or
I'll sue the league in court.



..week doing bureau business. For this I receive nothing except .reimbursement
for direct out-of-pocket expenses and grief from .people complaining that we
are not meeting their .needs/wants/desires/expectations.

Well, cry me river guy, if you can't handle the position then quit and let
someone else do it.




..What do you do for the hobby?

I operate. good enough for me, and honestly, I don't have an interest in the
league. too many idiots in power.



..If you choose to send a new envelope to the central bureau via .certified
mail, it will only sit at the post office until I return. It will not .be sent
to your letter manager until the next cycle mailing which will .probably be in
May, as I am attempting to get a mailing to them .before I leave this week.
(Do they hold certified mail for 2 plus .weeks?) You may send direcly to your
letter manager.

Well, the way I see you all owe me a 2.65 for the postage you all tossed in the
trash can, and for the envalopes sent to N8CXQ, that never made it. That makes
like 3.50 or so... it's a small amout, I know, but it's the point... you all
lost my stuff, and even if you didn't couldn't you all just grab a envalope and
put some stamps on it and send it, on your guys dime? or is the league that
broke? Hmmmmm...



..I sincerely am not trying to be mean-spirited or display an attitude.

could have fooled me.


..I will not enter into a spitting contest with you.

I won't either, but if my cards aren't in my hands in the next 7 days, my
attorney will be contacting someone at the league. I'm tired of being lied to,
and being put off.




..I will not respond to any further correspondence with you until I return .in
mid-April. Our desire is to deliver bureau cars in as timely a .manner as
should be expected for bureau cards. To do this we need .your cooperation and
you need ours. I pledge ours. Part of what is .expected from you is that we
not have to chase you down to remind .you that you need to send us envelopes.

Well, you can BLOW ME OFF, like your pallys here in Michigan or you all can
talk turkey. and send me my cards on your dime, seeing you all threw my stuff
away. otherwise, my Lawyer will be in touch.




..73,
..Jay, K4ZLE


Yeah, sure.

-Chuck K8CPA
==============

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To: "James Weaver"
From: chuck
Subject: Envalope

At 10:53 PM 3/22/2004 -0500, James Weaver wrote:



Look Jim, I'm gonn say this one time and one time only, I DO NOT WANT YOUR
MEMBERSHIP OK? I want my cards, if I don't not recieve my card with the next 7
days, I AM going to get a attorney and file a lawsuit in small claims court
against the League for the loss of money, I'm getting stinking sick and tired
of getting the damn run around with you jack asses, and if I don't get what I
want, I'll get it in a court of law!

Now get me my damn cards!

and quit the damn stallin'

-Chuck K8CPA

P.S. I got an e-mail from n8cxq saying I had cards, I sent envelopes and
postage and the damn things never made it, this was over 11 months ago, there's
NO EXCUSE FOR THIS AT ALL!!!!! someone ain't doing their job right or the post
office lost them, way I see it, I should get a check from the ARRL for the
envelopes lost and the postage. and Get my cards sent to ME on YOUR
Organzations Dime!
and this is what I will seek in court, if this doesn't happen. I'm tired of the
games Jim and if it don't stop, I'll take it to court. Consider yourself
warned.

========

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id 1B5sBc-0000D3-00; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:07:45 -0800 From: "James Weaver"

To: "'chuck'"
Subject: Envalope
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:07:53 -0500
Organization: ARRL
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Whoa, Chuck,

I'm not stalling. I don't have your cards. I've never had your cards. The
Bureau manager is checking with your letter manager to see what has happened.
Whatever it is I don't know, but it is being determined.

You can sue all you want, but there is no guarantee whatsoever that you will
collect anything. As a matter of fact, I'll bet you wouldn't. This aside, no
one wants to get messed up in a drawn out lawsuit that gains no one but the
attorney anything.

The rules of the Bureau are that it is not necessary for the Bureau folks to
keep cards when an amateur does not have envelopes and adequate postage on
file. Simple. If you didn't have an envelope and adequate postage, the Bureau
folks did not owe you anything. I'd say this is especially true when one
considers that you are not supporting the operation of the Bureau. Why is it
that nonmembers seem to be the people who make the greatest demands on
something they are receiving out of the kindness of members? Lets face it, if
you don't like the Bureau rules, there are other sources through which you can
get your reply QSLs. I'm sure we'd be just as happy to have you choose to
spend a few bucks to some guy to manage your QSLs and quit aggravating our
Bureau people as we are happy to help you at no charge.

Now, then, I'm not angry with you, but there was no reason for your attack on
me. I've done nothing to you. Your conduct is certainly no way to "win
friends and influence (favorably) people."

Lets get back to where we are all fellow amateurs who are pursuing in the case
of DXing the hobby aspects of Amateur Radio and quit acting as though you have
been bilked out of millions of dollars by some con artists. Can we?

73,

Jim
========

To: "James Weaver"
From: chuck
Subject: Envalope
Cc:

Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To: [email protected]
References:

....Whoa, Chuck,

You riding a horse?


..I'm not stalling. I don't have your cards. I've never had your cards.

I never said you did.



..The
..Bureau manager is checking with your letter manager to see what .has
..happened. Whatever it is I don't know, but it is being determined.

I know this, I called N8CXQ, I got his answering machine. I left a message. My
question is why wasn't this answered the first time I checked, instead of me
getting the don't worry about it and join the ARRL please, type message. I'd
join tommmrow, but I cannot afford it.
and BTW, *YOUR* letter manager, not mine, I'm not a member, remember?, told me
he was leaving out of town, *I* checked with N8CXQ, I've yet to hear from HIM
as well...


..You can sue all you want, but there is no guarantee whatsoever that .you will
..collect anything. As a matter of fact, I'll bet you wouldn't. This aside,
..no one wants to get messed up in a drawn out lawsuit that gains no .one but
..the attorney anything.

It isn't the money, it's the point. The point is I asked about this 5 months
ago or so and I got the cold shoulder, got blowed off, whatever you wanna call
it. which is pretty typical for the Michigan section when it relates to me. I
just wanna know what became of my envalope, if it didn't make it to N8CXQ, I
tend to believe it got tossed in the trash by someone who's got a problem with
me.


..The rules of the Bureau are that it is not necessary for the Bureau .folks to
..keep cards when an amateur does not have envelopes and adequate .postage on
..file. Simple. If you didn't have an envelope and adequate postage, .the
..Bureau folks did not owe you anything. I'd say this is especially true .when
..one considers that you are not supporting the operation of the .Bureau. Why
..is it that nonmembers seem to be the people who make the greatest .demands on
..something they are receiving out of the kindness of members? Lets .face it,
..if you don't like the Bureau rules, there are other sources through .which
..you can get your reply QSLs. I'm sure we'd be just as happy to have .you
..choose to spend a few bucks to some guy to manage your QSLs and .quit
..aggravating our Bureau people as we are happy to help you at no .charge.

Now, you've totally missed my message, I SENT THE ENVALOPE! WITH THE POSTAGE!
AND I NEVER GOT MY CARDS! and I haven't heard anything from CXQ at all,as if it
arrived, last I checked 5 months ago, he never seen it, where did it go? and
what the heck does this have to do with membership, you're mixing two totally
different issues up! you people offer a service and when I send my envelopes,
they are missing? and as for the RULES of the burro, yes, I got a problem with
them and YES, I am going to complain and bring this to light in the Internet
newsgroups and let PEOPLE KNOW NOT USE THE ARRL QSL BURRO AS IT IS A RIP OFF!
and if they lose your envelope, YOU GOTTA PAY AGAIN AND THEY WON'T DO A THING
TO HELP!

..Now, then, I'm not angry with you, but there was no reason for your .attack
..on me. I've done nothing to you. Your conduct is certainly no way to ."win
..friends and influence (favorably) people."

I attacked you because YOU FLATLY REFUSED TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE, INSTEAD YOU
WANTED TO SELL ME A ARRL MEMBERSHIP! I want my cards, if I don't get them,
I'll NEVER JOIN the ARRL! You think I just supposed to sit back and shut up and
not care what happened to my 2.75 cents or so worth of pastage, plus the monies
spent on the Envelopes?!?!?! Heck Yes I am going to Complain, I've even called
K1MAN and informed him of the goings on here in the Michigan area, Why can't
the area manager go to the post office and find out, did they have a envalope
from Lincoln Park, Michigan 48146 come through and maybe it was lost, why can't
something be done? to insure this NEVER happens again?


..Lets get back to where we are all fellow amateurs who are pursuing .in the
..case of DXing the hobby aspects of Amateur Radio and quit acting as .though
..you have been bilked out of millions of dollars by some con artists. .Can
..we?

I'm sorry, but No I cannot just sit by idle and forget the fact the ARRL's
incoming QSL Burro LOST my envelope and REFUSES to do anything about it. TALK
ABOUT BAAAD PR!

Have a nice day, usless OM.

-Chuck ADKINS K8CPA

===========

X-Originating-IP: [207.217.120.48]
From: "James Weaver"
To: "'chuck'"
Subject: Envalope
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:39:34 -0500
Organization: ARRL
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Chuck,

You missed my point. The point is that unless YOU have an envelope and postage
at the Bureau when YOUR cards come in, there is no requirement that the Bureau
folks bust their chops to hunt you down to deliver YOUR cards.
The point is that you failed to comply with the rules of the Bureau which are
and have been publicly published for years. Quit trying to place the blame on
someone else for what you did. Become a man and accept that you screwed up and
that whatever the snafu is that resulted in you not getting any cards there may
be or may have been on file with your letter sorter is because of your
screw-up.

A second point is that you totally failed to communicate your need in your
initial E-mail of a few days ago and, instead of communicating your need, you
tore into a fellow who probably is at least twice the man that you are or will
be. Frankly, in my opinion, you insult the Christ you proclaim to believe in
by your fully un-Christian manner of confronting your fellow man.

'Nuf said? Grow up. If you truly profess Christ as your Savior, show it and
quit acting as though you follow Beelzebub! As an aside, you might learn to
spell, as well.

Jim

========

To: "James Weaver"
From: chuck
Subject: Envalope
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
In-Reply-To: [email protected]
References:

All this, including your last will be available on my website as well as
printed to the newsgroups and K1MAN

73 and enjoy the fallout.

-Chuck K8CPA



=============

Chuck K8CPA Sends a envalope and THEY lose it, and just because he's not a
member, because he's unenployed. they want to screw him and not send his
cards..

and they wonder why *I* won't join...

NIW












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