Mike Coslo wrote:
William wrote:

MARS is NOT "Amateur Radio."


http://www.asc.army.mil/mars/


Mars certainly consists of Radio amateurs, and according to

http://www.asc.army.mil/mars/join.htm

you need to be an amateur.

And since you can ba an amateur without being in MARS, yet cannot be in
MARS without being an Amateur..........

Her is something from from

http://www.ieway.com/~billw/wamars.htm

which seems to contradict that the MARS people aren't involved in
emergency work.

Quote start:


In times of emergencies, whether local, regional, or national, you will
find MARS radio operators handling logistics and emergency
communications. A part of our membership is equipped to "go portable"
with radio and computer equipment to help with health and welfare radio
traffic handling. During the recent flooding, members assisted local
authorities relaying messages from families to their relatives and
friends in regards to their situations. After the earthquakes in
California, members also handled messages from the earthquake victims to
others outside the area. All phone systems were disabled or overloaded
and the only efficient means of communication was by radio. Members of
the MARS program were there to lend a hand.

NNN0ZSJ / NNN0GCC Five

Quote end.


So what is it guys. Is this person "innacurate?


While MARS "isn't involved in emergency work", we might read

http://www.marsgateway.net/docs/AR25-6.pdf

and sneak a peek at Chapter 1 paragraph 6, sentence a.

Let me know what it says. ;^)

- Mike KB3EIA -


There you go again Mike, upsetting the apple cart with facts. It seems
that some just can't except the fact that amateur radio and the military
have a close relationship and the military does accept amateur radio as
a valuable service when needed, but not cell phones.

Subject: Cell phone woes
From: (William)
Date: 4/24/2004 11:25 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: Cell phone woes
From: "KØHB"
Date: 4/23/2004 1:11 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id: . net

Sorry Hans, MARS IS "Amateur Radio".

Sorry Steve, but MARS is NOT "Amateur Radio."

With the exception of a very few Active Duty personnel assigned to
oversee
the program, every single person in all three branches of MARS are licensed
Amateur Radio Operators.

I don't believe that Ray Collins is an amateur.

Who cares?

Prerequisite #1 for ALL branches is licensure in the Amatuer Radio
Service.

There's never been an exception?

Enough to completely ignore the fact that 99% of all MARS personnel are
licensed Amateurs? I hardly thionk so.

ex NNN0GCM (Area Coordinator, Navy/Marine Corps MARS, Guam/Mariana
Islands)

Congratulations. None of it changes the facts about MARS, however.

Correct. And you have your FACTS wrong.

Which ones, Brian?

YOUR experience in AMRS, please?

MARS is NOT "Amateur Radio."

Formerly NNN0VVU (CHOP, NNN0MOC/MOF, Assistant Islandwide Coordinator
for
Okinawa, 1981), AFA1OQ, AAT4SA.

So there....Nyah.....

Steve, K4YZ

Looks like the military wasted a lot of training on you if you cannot
get even the most basic FACT right.

Now just accept it so that Carl doesn't have to come on here spank you
again.

Hardly, Brian.

So...You going to Dayton?

73

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: Cell phone woes
From: (William)
Date: 4/24/2004 11:42 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

MARS is military. Check out what the acronym means sometime.

I know it quite well.

Military AFFILIATE Radio System.

That means licensed AMATEURS "affiliated" with that particular
MARS/military program.

I am a leader in the BSA.

That's scary.

When I am on my paying job, am I representing the BSA?

Who cares? You may. When I am on my paying job I occassionally get to
discuss CAP, Amateur Radio, EMS and several other "programs" I participate in.

Ergo, you MAY be "representing" BSA when you're on your "paying job"...

When a volunteer is signing AFA3xx, is he or she representing the BSA,
CSA, FFa or the PTA?

Could be.

Nope. And neither are they representing the ARS or the ARRL.

Says you?

No Amateur Radio Operators = No MARS.

Not true. Regulations change every day. The regulations will be
changed to suit new conditions.

Perhaps.

But right now...today...what I stated is true.

TOMORROW they may require that I be wearing Avon when I operate and that I
hang from the shower curtain by my ankles.

But not today.

MARS would have an easier training load by training people off the
street rather than having to retrain a bunch of amateurs.

Unless you were assigned the responsibility of incorportating those
assets
to your plan by higher headquarters, Brian. Are you stating for the record
that if you are tasked with such a requirement that you'd disobey lawful
orders?

Comms was not my functional area, but weather comms were. But I will
state for the record that I'd write anything into the plan or opord
that hhq told me to - as long as it was a legal order.

Then you were not being honest with yourself or faithful to your sworn
oath. Yes, 99.999% of the time I am sure no one would ask you to write dumb
stuff.

No, I would not care to give you an "after action report", other than
to
say I had a good time and a lot WAS learned/accomplished.

Great! You accomplished WAS. Glad you had fun.

Huh...???

Unless, of course, you know of some secret DoD document that would
deploy
Active Duty service persons to flesh out the MARS ranks if they all decided
to
quit...?!?!

I suspect that MARS, if need be, could find volunteers who didn't have
amateur licenses. Isn't that what CAP does? Doesn't CAP use radios
on military frequencies?

What CAP does today is irrelevent to the topic being discussed.

And I have proposed changes to the AFMARS system that would allow CAP
members who have completed "ACUT" (Advanced Communicator User Training) and who
have demonstrated competency to be allowed to enroll in AFMARS.

But that is NOT what the rules allow now, and what MIGHT happen in the
future is irrelevent NOW.

MARS is NOT "Amateur Radio."

Best of Luck, and last this subject.

No Amateur Radio = No MARS.

And best of luck to you.

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: Cell phone woes
From: (Steve Robeson K4CAP)
Date: 4/24/2004 5:54 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

YOUR experience in AMRS, please?

My bust.

MARS. But I could ALSO ask what experience you have IN AMRS since it was
an Air Force program related to Amateur Radio.

Steve, K4YZ

"JJ" wrote in message
...
Jim Hampton wrote:


The military has their way of doing things, and, quite frankly, I think
they
do it very well indeed. No slam on amateur radio, but this is a very
different situation. Even military radios have mil-spec components and
can
operate in conditions that our radios could not stand up to. You might
be
in the Middle East in a desert in summer with sandstorms or in Korea in
the
wintertime. You might be in a jungle with extensive rain and 100%
humidity.
You might be in mountains.

That's why Collins built the S-Line series of equipment, which was also
very widely used by amateurs. I still run an S-Line.


Yep, and the S-line was top notch gear and is still good equipment. KG6AAY
had considerable Collins equipment in it when I was there in the mid to late
60s.

73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA



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JJ wrote in message ...

There you go again Mike, upsetting the apple cart with facts. It seems
that some just can't except the fact that amateur radio and the military
have a close relationship and the military does accept amateur radio as
a valuable service when needed, but not cell phones.

What Mike posted is generally correct.

And nearly anyone who'se anybody in the service has a cell phone on
their hip paid for by you and me. I'd say that the military does
accept cellular telephones as a valuable service daily.

Meanwhile you can call me by name and Mike by name, but we don't know
what to call you.

Subject: Cell phone woes
From: (William)
Date: 4/24/2004 10:25 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

With the exception of a very few Active Duty personnel assigned to
oversee
the program, every single person in all three branches of MARS are
licensed
Amateur Radio Operators.

I don't believe that Ray Collins is an amateur.

Who cares?

You do. You just said that, "With the exception of a very few Active
Duty personnel assigned to oversee the program, every single person in
all three branches of MARS are licensed Amateur Radio Operators."

Ray is neither Active Duty nor an Amateur Radio Operator. He is
merely the Chief of Air Force MARS.

Then you're one up, after...what...three years of getting your tail caught
under the rockers?

Enough to completely ignore the fact that 99% of all MARS personnel
are
licensed Amateurs? I hardly think so.

Now you're saying that 1% of all MARS personnel are not amateurs?

Do you NEED a specific number, Brian? I am sure we can come up with one,
and I am sure that no matter what, it will STILL be under 10% regardless...

ex NNN0GCM (Area Coordinator, Navy/Marine Corps MARS, Guam/Mariana
Islands)

Congratulations. None of it changes the facts about MARS, however.

Correct. And you have your FACTS wrong.

Which ones, Brian?

For starters, this one: "Sorry Hans, MARS IS "Amateur Radio"."

And without Amateur Radio MARS is...what...?!?!

YOUR experience in AMRS, please?

I've never been in AMRS, or even in AMWAY.

Too bad. It was a lot of fun.

I have been in AF MARS at two assignements; base support team at
Andersen AB in 1990-91, and Scott AFB 1993 - 1999. I did sign up for
Army Mars when I arrived in Korea in 1988, but didn't become active
with it.

OK...that takes you up to five years ago. Thanks.

MARS is NOT "Amateur Radio."

Formerly NNN0VVU (CHOP, NNN0MOC/MOF, Assistant Islandwide
Coordinator
for
Okinawa, 1981), AFA1OQ, AAT4SA.

So there....Nyah.....

Steve, K4YZ

Looks like the military wasted a lot of training on you if you cannot
get even the most basic FACT right.

Now just accept it so that Carl doesn't have to come on here spank you
again.

Hardly, Brian.

So...You going to Dayton?

I have a scouting campout the weekend of the Hamvention.

I am sure you do.

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: Cell phone woes
From: (William)
Date: 4/25/2004 10:17 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

But right now...today...what I stated is true.

Nope, you're "FACTS" are moving targets. You've already backtracked
on your original statement and now say that 1% of MARS personnel are
not Amateurs.

OK...here we go again.

Brian, I have ALWAYS stated that there are SOME "non-Amateur" personnel
involved in MARS. Most of those are Active Duty Armed Forces. You provided
the name of ONE person who is neither Amateur nor ADAF. I will accept that
there are probably folks who fall into that same category for N/MC and Army
MARS. I still contend that the numbers will be around 1%, certainly no more
than 10%.

That means 90% of the load is carried by licensed Amateur Radio operators.


No Amateur Radio = No MARS, that 1-10% notwithstanding.

TOMORROW they may require that I be wearing Avon when I operate and
that I
hang from the shower curtain by my ankles.

But not today.

They won't. Trust me.

Try to stay away from extremes.

Hey...You're the one who can't/won't accept that MARS existence is
directly predicated on the participation of licensed Amateur Radio operators.

You're also the one who has made suggestions about what MARS may or may
not be based upon arbitrary rules changes that COULD be enacted SOME time in
the future.

Not what IS in writing...but what MIGHT happen.

That's "extreme".

Comms was not my functional area, but weather comms were. But I will
state for the record that I'd write anything into the plan or opord
that hhq told me to - as long as it was a legal order.

Then you were not being honest with yourself or faithful to your sworn
oath.

How am I not being honest?

You said you'd write "anything" if it were a "legal order".

Your commanding officer could tell you to write "I am gay" on a blackboard
100 times. That would be a legal order. Would you do it, knowing it wasn't
true? (Or is it?)

Yes, 99.999% of the time I am sure no one would ask you to write dumb
stuff.

Lots of dumb stuff is written here. Arguing minutia over and over and
over is what Carl commented on.

I am impressed that several people express angst over "arguing minutia",
but usually what THEY consider "minutia" is inversely proportional to whether
they find it important to themselves...Not what others consider important.

I, for one, do not consider your assertion of "significant role" in the
use of unlicensed radio services in emergency communications, to be valid, well
founded, nor even wise. You, however, considered it "minutia", no doubt due to
the fact taht it was an indefensible idea.

I suspect that MARS, if need be, could find volunteers who didn't have
amateur licenses. Isn't that what CAP does? Doesn't CAP use radios
on military frequencies?

What CAP does today is irrelevent to the topic being discussed.

Yes, it is. The USAF has set a precedent that they don't require
amateur volunteers to operate radios on military frequencies. Do you
disagree?

Yes, I do. (Disagree)

CAP is NOT MARS. It never was. It NEVER required Amateur licensure in
order to participate. CAP has encouraged Amateurs to participate, and
encourages it's members to consider being licensed. However they are also very
adamant that CAP operators not use Amateur frequencies for CAP business, and
"Amateur-like" communications not be conducted on CAP frequencies.

Apples and oranges, Brian.

And I have proposed changes to the AFMARS system that would allow CAP
members who have completed "ACUT" (Advanced Communicator User Training) and
who
have demonstrated competency to be allowed to enroll in AFMARS.

Hopefully you didn't include Avon products and hanging upside down
from the shower rod in your proposal.

Now please allow me to have an opinion.

You have a CAP volunteer who now wants to add AFMARS volunteer to
his/her credentials. Then the big disaster occurs and CAP calls him
up for duty. Then AFMARS calls him up for duty. Then RACES calls him
up for duty. Then the ARC calls him up for duty. Then the ER calls
him up for duty. Then home calls and say they need him there.

Choose one (1) emergency service to volunteer for and do it well.
When work calls and says they need you there, you go to work. When
home calls and says they need you there, you go home.

I am sure you have a point to make, Brian, but I think the point is that
you're jealous that others are capable of being/doing more than one thing.

If you're a one-thing-at-a-time kinda guy, that's fine. There's nothing
to be ashamed of. Lot's of people can't handle more than one thing at a
time...Or one thing at all...

I think some people collect volunteer credentials like some people
collect 10-10 numbers.

Like I said...If you're a OTAAT kinda guy, that's fine.

Some of us realize that there's only one pass at life and a lot of things
to do and experience.

I like to do a lot of things. I may never "master" any of them, but I
will have done them and been made better for it. And in some cases my having
DONE them has made things better for others.

That's the icing on the cake.

But that is NOT what the rules allow now, and what MIGHT happen in the
future is irrelevent NOW.

If future rules are irrelevant, why do you propose changes?

They are irrelevent at this moment. They may not be tomorrow. Can I hold
you accountable TODAY for a yet-to-be enacted law...?!?!

MARS is NOT "Amateur Radio."

Best of Luck, and last this subject.

No Amateur Radio = No MARS.

MARS is NOT "Amateur Radio."

No Amateur Radio = No MARS.

It really is THAT simple.

Steve, K4YZ