Jim Hampton wrote:
"stewart" wrote in message
om...

"KØHB" wrote in message

link.net...

"stewart" wrote

There is virtually no difference between the current General and
Technician written exams.


That's funny... there are 11 questions in the Technician question pool
on TOWER SAFETY... and there are 0 questions in the General question
pool.


Perhaps everyone believes that if you have a license you actually
know something.

Apparently, recent Technicians know MORE than recent Generals, in
regards to your litmus test issue of TOWER SAFETY.



Uh, don't look now, but each new recent General has to first take the
enty level Technician examination. Since tower safety is a basic
requirement for any class operator it is tested on the basic test.
Wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to ask the same questions on both
tests, so the General examination does not repeat the same material.
Kinda puts the lie to your assertion about "virtually no difference"
though, doesn't it!


With all kind regards,

de Hans, K0HB

Still fighting the LOSING battle with non-logic, I see.

Man! Don't you fools have ANYTHING better to do with your lives?

Don't look now, but there's only a few of you left... progress WILL be

made.

- Stewart
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MURS-OPEN


Hello, Stewart

Ok, let me pose a simple question for you. Assume you have a base and a
mobile MURS station. Both have very good antennas and you have a minimum 10
mile solid range of communications. You are talking to your wife. She is 7
miles away from you. 11 miles away, another mobile MURS station comes over
a hill and is now in your range. He has a base station 8 miles further away
that you can't hear. He is using the same channel that you and your wife
are using. He is running a 5/8 wave on his car. Oh, and he is using a
modified 50 watt 2 meter rig (both at his base and in his car).

Do the math. He can be on the opposite side of you from your wife in the
mobile. His electric field is 5 times your wife's (and likely at least
twice yours). Can we spell "capture effect"? Without extensive f layer
propogation that exists on 11 meters at times, these problems won't become
apparent until there are more MURS users and even then, most of the problem
will be in urban areas .... but .... meanwhile, you won't be able to
communicate with your wife (most likely).

My suspicion is that this is the first time that one has heard of the
capture effect. Remember, nothing makes for a solid and simple argument
like ignorance of the details.


I darn well think that amateurs should be tested in at least basic rules and
safety for an entry level class license. I tend to get nervous when I see
questions about SWR and coax lengths from amateur extra class licenses.

I'm not sure what can be done about that one, Jim. When the increasing
Morse code speed requirements were in place, the prospective Extra was
likely on the air and learning more about things as he or she went. It
was simply a slowing of the process that enabled knowledge gain and
practical experience in the interim. Now with 5wpm and testing, those
brakes aren't there.

I became an Extra "too quickly" and I know of others that got it much
more too quickly than me! 8^)

I've wanted to propose a waiting period between General and Extra, (2
years) but I seem to be the only person that thinks that is a good idea.



As far as the old timers wasting their time, there is one older guy around
here whose repeaters won't go down easily. One is windmill powered; the
other is solar powered. Then there are a *ton* of others in his system.
All interconnected and cover 10 meters to 1.2 GHz.

Most excellent!

Hey Jim, Are you going to be at the Rochester Hamfest this Saturday?
i'm thinking of making it there on Saturday, then swinging down to catch
the Butler fest on Sunday.

- Mike KB3EIA

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...
Subject: The dam is leaking...
From: "Jim Hampton"
Date: 6/3/2004 8:51 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


"William" wrote in message
. com...

Folks have been killed while driving to the FCC for exams. They might
have known the material, and they might not have. We'll never know.

So, back to your statement and my question: what does driving a car have to
do with radio/electronics/rf/ac/dc and safety?

A rhetorical question at best, isn't it, Jim...?!?! =)

A skilled LennieRanter uses such diversions to redirect our attention from
thier lack of substance in the exchange, Jim!

73

Steve, K4YZ

The point was, "We'll never know (if they knew the material).

Some of you OF's try to make it sound like getting to the FCC office
for an examination was inconvenient at best, or even dangerous. So
you petitioned your government to let you get a mail order license, or
to have some other local ham(s) test you. Lots of hand wringing and
whining.

"William" wrote in message
om...
(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: The dam is leaking...
From: "Jim Hampton"
Date: 6/3/2004 8:51 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


"William" wrote in message
. com...

Folks have been killed while driving to the FCC for exams. They
might
have known the material, and they might not have. We'll never know.

So, back to your statement and my question: what does driving a car
have to
do with radio/electronics/rf/ac/dc and safety?

A rhetorical question at best, isn't it, Jim...?!?! =)

A skilled LennieRanter uses such diversions to redirect our
attention from
thier lack of substance in the exchange, Jim!

73

Steve, K4YZ

The point was, "We'll never know (if they knew the material).

Some of you OF's try to make it sound like getting to the FCC office
for an examination was inconvenient at best, or even dangerous. So
you petitioned your government to let you get a mail order license, or
to have some other local ham(s) test you. Lots of hand wringing and
whining.

Huh?

I thought most of the OFs were trying to get the tests a bit more difficult.
You can't have it both ways.

Next, you'll blame the OFs because your washing machine is over-sudsing LOL!

The reality is that the real flamers on both ends of the spectrum are the
hold up. That mention of a trip to the FCC being dangerous had no relation
to the material on the test. We could say the same thing about sending our
kids to school. A very few have been killed and/or raped. That is hardly
a reason for not attending school.

These newsgroups get sillier every month, if not every week.

73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA



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"Jim Hampton" wrote in message ...
"William" wrote in message
om...
(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: The dam is leaking...
From: "Jim Hampton"
Date: 6/3/2004 8:51 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


"William" wrote in message
. com...

Folks have been killed while driving to the FCC for exams. They
might
have known the material, and they might not have. We'll never know.

So, back to your statement and my question: what does driving a car
have to
do with radio/electronics/rf/ac/dc and safety?

A rhetorical question at best, isn't it, Jim...?!?! =)

A skilled LennieRanter uses such diversions to redirect our
attention from
thier lack of substance in the exchange, Jim!

73

Steve, K4YZ

The point was, "We'll never know (if they knew the material).

Some of you OF's try to make it sound like getting to the FCC office
for an examination was inconvenient at best, or even dangerous. So
you petitioned your government to let you get a mail order license, or
to have some other local ham(s) test you. Lots of hand wringing and
whining.

Huh?

I thought most of the OFs were trying to get the tests a bit more difficult.

Yep, now that they got theirs, they're trying to make things more
difficult. Can you recall when Amateur Radio got mail order upgrades
and hams testing hams?

You can't have it both ways.

I never have.

Next, you'll blame the OFs because your washing machine is over-sudsing LOL!

Stay away from my washing machine.

The reality is that the real flamers on both ends of the spectrum are the
hold up. That mention of a trip to the FCC being dangerous had no relation
to the material on the test. We could say the same thing about sending our
kids to school. A very few have been killed and/or raped. That is hardly
a reason for not attending school.

Wow! I hope that didn't happen because of frustrated amateurs on
their way to an exam.

These newsgroups get sillier every month, if not every week.

Actually, No. Fewer and fewer PCTA post each month, and the newsgroup
is improving.

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
snip
Most excellent!

Hey Jim, Are you going to be at the Rochester Hamfest this Saturday?
i'm thinking of making it there on Saturday, then swinging down to catch
the Butler fest on Sunday.

- Mike KB3EIA

Mike,

I wish I was going to be there. I dunno, but some friends are going to be
over here tomorrow so I suspect that I won't. I haven't had a chance to
talk to Tim, WB2KAO and see when he may be there .... sigh .... I made it to
the hamfest perhaps 4 years ago


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA



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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Subject: The dam is leaking...
From: "Jim Hampton"
Date: 6/4/2004 12:45 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


"William" wrote in message
. com...
(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: The dam is leaking...
From: "Jim Hampton"
Date: 6/3/2004 8:51 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


"William" wrote in message
. com...

Folks have been killed while driving to the FCC for exams. They
might
have known the material, and they might not have. We'll never know.

So, back to your statement and my question: what does driving a car
have to
do with radio/electronics/rf/ac/dc and safety?

A rhetorical question at best, isn't it, Jim...?!?! =)

A skilled LennieRanter uses such diversions to redirect our
attention from
thier lack of substance in the exchange, Jim!

73

Steve, K4YZ

The point was, "We'll never know (if they knew the material).

Some of you OF's try to make it sound like getting to the FCC office
for an examination was inconvenient at best, or even dangerous. So
you petitioned your government to let you get a mail order license, or
to have some other local ham(s) test you. Lots of hand wringing and
whining.

Huh?

I thought most of the OFs were trying to get the tests a bit more difficult.
You can't have it both ways.

It wasn't the "OF's" who were trying to get the tests thinned out. It was
the Johhny-come-lately 10-4 Good Buddy crowd that wanted NO code test and
written questions that were "in the public domain".

Next, you'll blame the OFs because your washing machine is over-sudsing LOL!

He'll blame anyone for anything as long as it means defering any
responsibility from himself.

The reality is that the real flamers on both ends of the spectrum are the
hold up. That mention of a trip to the FCC being dangerous had no relation
to the material on the test. We could say the same thing about sending our
kids to school. A very few have been killed and/or raped. That is hardly
a reason for not attending school.

These newsgroups get sillier every month, if not every week.

I had high expectations that there would be some sort of meaningful
exchanges here.

Boy did I ever get my bubble broken.

It's a nice place to get that "stomping in the mud puddle" thing out of
your system so you can wash up and go back to "the real world".

73

Steve, K4YZ

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: The dam is leaking...
From: "Jim Hampton"
Date: 6/4/2004 12:45 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

"William" wrote in message
.com...
(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: The dam is leaking...
From: "Jim Hampton"
Date: 6/3/2004 8:51 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


"William" wrote in message
. com...

Folks have been killed while driving to the FCC for exams. They might
have known the material, and they might not have. We'll never know.

So, back to your statement and my question: what does driving a car have
to
do with radio/electronics/rf/ac/dc and safety?

A rhetorical question at best, isn't it, Jim...?!?! =)

A skilled LennieRanter uses such diversions to redirect our
attention from
thier lack of substance in the exchange, Jim!

73

Steve, K4YZ

The point was, "We'll never know (if they knew the material).

Some of you OF's try to make it sound like getting to the FCC office
for an examination was inconvenient at best, or even dangerous. So
you petitioned your government to let you get a mail order license, or
to have some other local ham(s) test you. Lots of hand wringing and
whining.

Huh?

I thought most of the OFs were trying to get the tests a bit more difficult.
You can't have it both ways.

It wasn't the "OF's" who were trying to get the tests thinned out. It
was
the Johhny-come-lately 10-4 Good Buddy crowd that wanted NO code test and
written questions that were "in the public domain".

By definition, AMATEUR radio is not professional. Ergo, a HOBBY,
done for personal recreation, enjoyment, without accepting any
money for communications services rendered anyone.

As such, the rules and regulations need only to reflect the radio
environment, other radio services, and, of course, the international
radio world effect (which involves some politicking). Hobbies don't
need any professional guild-union-craft structure of apprentice-
journeyman-master kind of hierarchy...except in the imagination
of those who use an amateur license to merely show off.

The public question (and answer) pool came about through other
government regulations as Phil pointed out years ago. In reality,
such public data has been around for over a half century
beginning with the "Q&A" books that were once on the market
right after WW2. The Dick Bash material came later and was
not the start of such things. Bash did better marketing,
combining his radio schools with the books, plus some
noteriety, all added up to his being "known" better. The "Q&A"
books began it with commercial radio operator licenses plus
the amateur radio operator licenses.

The "no code movement" existed over four decades ago and
has grown in that time, finally achieving organizations (NCI is
the largest to date) which emphasized that. The use of manual
telegraphy has continued to decline in non-amateur radio for
half a century and the hoary old maxims of "a good radio op
is a good telegrapher" went out of date long, long ago...every-
where but among the greying heads of old amateurs.

Next, you'll blame the OFs because your washing machine is over-sudsing LOL!

He'll blame anyone for anything as long as it means defering any
responsibility from himself.

Jim Hampton made a little remark with humor and should be
taken as such. That wasn't a springboard for you to suddenly
turn on fury and go on yet-another personal attack.

The reality is that the real flamers on both ends of the spectrum are the
hold up. That mention of a trip to the FCC being dangerous had no relation
to the material on the test. We could say the same thing about sending our
kids to school. A very few have been killed and/or raped. That is hardly
a reason for not attending school.

These newsgroups get sillier every month, if not every week.

I had high expectations that there would be some sort of meaningful
exchanges here.

Boy did I ever get my bubble broken.

Tsk, tsk, tsk, you broke it yourself.

You can't have "meaningful exchanges" when you soil the
communications environment with personal attacks of any kind
on those who do not agree with you.

"Meaningful exchanges" do not equate with capitulation to your
personal ideas of what amateur radio is (fantasy or otherwise).

It's a nice place to get that "stomping in the mud puddle" thing out of
your system so you can wash up and go back to "the real world".

That's just the opposite of what you just said about "meaningful
exchanges."

You DO play in lots of mud. If there isn't any mud, you hose down
the ground and MAKE mud...then whine and complain that all
others are being so nasty to poor little you.

Poor nursie...no TLC received because of throwing all that mud.

You broke the levees over five years ago along with all the
other mud bulldozers in here and think you are mighty and powerful
for saying what's on your mind...and then getting angrier when
anyone throws the mud right back at you. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

On top of that, you can't get government regulations straight or
what they mean, such as "MARS is amateur radio," a statement
that is incorrect.

Stewart started off this thread with some rather vague generality
that wasn't any "rant" but just a general comment. I really don't
know, nor can I decrypt what Stewart meant (from many possible
choices). I can see that the Personal Attack mode has been
turned on by yourself. Again. On specifics of what certain others
say so that you can claim bulldoze rights of breaking the
behavior dam to add more troubled waters over calm land.

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...
Yes, I and can see a lot of 2 meter gear being sold/modified for use -
where?

I personally see no need for Morse, but do have a concern about the
continuing movement to reduce technical requirements. This would include
grandfathering techs to general. Folks have been killed trying to erect
towers. Perhaps everyone believes that if you have a license you actually
know something.

And what makes you think that techs don't erect towers, Jim???

Carl - wk3c

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...
[snip]

I also don't want some idiot running 200 watts into a 5/8 wave groundplane
on 2 meters next door to me. He may be ignorant, but I am not.

And what is to stop a tech from doing so? (as long as he/she does the RF
exposure analysis ... which will probably show that it's just fine from the
RF exposure standpoint ...)

Jim, your class elitism/prejudice is showing - why don't you stop acting
like all techs are dimwits? Many are more technically accomplished than
many extras.

Carl - wk3c

In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes:

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...
[snip]

I also don't want some idiot running 200 watts into a 5/8 wave groundplane
on 2 meters next door to me. He may be ignorant, but I am not.

And what is to stop a tech from doing so? (as long as he/she does the RF
exposure analysis ... which will probably show that it's just fine from the
RF exposure standpoint ...)

Jim, your class elitism/prejudice is showing - why don't you stop acting
like all techs are dimwits? Many are more technically accomplished than
many extras.

Carl,

Please read the thread from the beginning to see the context of the comments.
Note the claims and tone of the person who started the thread.

Jim is *supporting* the idea of meaningful written tests for all - including
the entry-level license, whatever it is.

He is not saying all or even some techs are "dimwits" - just that we need
appropriate technical testing in place.

73 de Jim, N2EY