In article ,
(William) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Sucks to be you, Putz.

Tsk. The Stalker put away is Amateur Corps Class A uniform and the
recruiting posters for the United States Amateur Corps ("A few good
men...")
and lapsed into his hate-filled snarliness mode.

I see a glimpse of humanity from Steve every few weeks. I like him
much better that way. I'll pray for him tonight.

Well, Stalker IS a representative of top-of-the-line amateur radio
licensee.

Let's back away from that idea for a while. What? We've got maybe
four or five Extras on here who are congenital liars, spinmasters, or
just cranky old farts VS how many did Jim just post are in the ARS?

I don't think Steve and the others on here are representative of
top-of-the-line amateurs at all. As a matter of fact, I feel kind of
sorry for Jim. I think he's hung in here about a year too long. He
should have bailed before his lost his last remnant of dignity. His
post about "Morse Code Exams are a disincentive to CW use" really told
the tale. Since then he's gone over to the dark side and can't find
his way back. He's truly committed.

All the PCTA love him. He be Tuff and Loud. Yell-Yell alla time.

I think they only support him because they think they'll all hang
separately if they don't hang together. I can't imagine them actually
coming forwad to say they love him. Just another case of group-think.
So suprised when Jim first said Bruce might be brilliant (hi, hi),
then said he wasn't proper amateur material.

In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

"William" wrote in message
. com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message
...

The important question is, who is the best judge of what the
requirements
should be? The newcomer or the experienced ham?

73 de Jim, N2EY

Jim, many experienced amateurs have spoken agains the continued use of
the Morse Code as a filter. You ignore them, or say they must be
wrong. Luckily, hams don't decide, necomer or otherwise. The FCC
does, and they see merit in the reasonable arguments put forth by
those experienced hams.

Best of Luck

Please post the URLs of the surveys to back up your claim. How "many?" Is
it a majority or is it just a vocal minority?

So far the FCC has done nothing with the innumerable petitions nor have the
acted unilaterally to implement the change now allowed by the international
treaty. At this point it is premature to say that the FCC sees merit in
either side of the question.

Any intelligent person doesn't consider it a filter. It is simply a useful
element of ham radio that should be maintained. Some of the people against
using it as a filter are for keeping it as a part of the ham's required
knowledge.

In article ,
(William) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(N2EY) writes:

Have you ever seen a family where the kids are given everything they want
but
not required to contribute anything? Ever see what sort of adults those
kids
become?

Six-year-old Novices and Nine-year-old Extras? :-)

LHA / WMD

August QST: Twelve year old Extra in Kentucky. And a shack to die for.

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: FCC Morse testing at 16 and 20 WPM
From: "Dee D. Flint"
Date: 7/17/2004 10:32 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


"N2EY" wrote in message
...
[snip]
The important question is, who is the best judge of what the requirements
should be? The newcomer or the experienced ham?


That is the very crux of the problem. Somehow too many have lost sight of
the fact that those with experience should be the ones to define the
requirements.

But it also needs to be the RIGHT experience.

Lennie the Liar has a lot of "experience" in SOME radio matters, but
zero-point-zero percent of it is as an Amateur Radio licensee. Also
zero-point-zero experience in "emergency communications". His "traffic
handling" experience was as a radio clerk in the Army in the FIFTIES, and his
experience in practical avionics goes back to his days as a STUDENT (never
licensed) pilot back when Lear organ-grinder radios were the "state of the
art".

Would you want HIM making binding decisions for you in regards to
Amateur
Radio policy?

When Lennie discusses matters of technical interest I sit up and pay
attention...but that's ALL people like him CAN talk about.

I know people like him in my professional life too...people who can
recite the textbooks and history annals inside and out...but don't have a
valid
clue as to HOW to apply what they know. People like that are dangerous.

73

Steve, K4YZ

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: FCC Morse testing at 16 and 20 WPM
From: (William)
Date: 7/17/2004 9:50 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Steve

Some in a position to know your "professional" services directly
quantify
your skills as "mediocre, at best..."

A LIE, nursie. Bald-faced, out and out LIE.

Lennie, you can keep repeating that until you die, but it will not make
it
any less true.

Believe it or not, not everyone in your "profession" was enamored with
your knowledge and skill. They certainly weren't enamored with your
personality. Perhaps if you had stepped off of your self-grandizing pedestal
once in a while...?!?!

You don't know squat about the electronics industry or military
electronics or civilian electronics other than reading about ham
radio in QST. YOU DON'T KNOW.

I know more than you care to acknowledge, but that's OK by me.

Now YOU produce those NAMES of the "some" you ALLEGE
"know."

Nope. They spoke to me on assurance that I'd guard thier
confidentiality.
That they were career engineers at NADC and had occassion to "know" you is
adequate enough.

You can't because they DON'T EXIST. They are a fermentation of
your hate-filled obsessional, delusional psychosis in here.

Again, you may continue to make that assertion over and over but it will
not make it true. There is nothing "hate-filled" or "obsessional" about
having
taken the time to do some research on some of the references YOU provided. I
just lucked up on the right people.

Should have kept your mouth shut, Lennie. You set your own trap.

Get some mental therapy. From a real shrink.

You mean YOUR "evaluation" wasn't adequate...?!?! Your "experience" in
psychiatry is invalid...?!?! Say it isn't so!

It will help everyone, even yourself.

What would "help" here, Lennie, is if you would take it upon yourself to
act your age, stop making assertions and proclamations that are easy to prove
wrong, and actually DO the things you claim you are going to do.

Pbththththth.

My point is made. Thanks for doing it for me.

Len, he's a freak. Stay away. "Danger Will Robinson. Danger!"

And PuppetBoy chimes in...

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(William) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...

That's nutso-ville. Aberrant delusional psychosis. Whacko-land.

Yep. He have Big Drama in head.

Poor nursie must think we are Ebert & Roeper who just gave him
two "thumbs down" early Sunday evening on national TV. :-)

"Stepford Hams." Not an original idea at all.

In article ,
(Len Over 21) writes:

That is the very crux of the problem. Somehow too many have lost sight of
the fact that those with experience should be the ones to define the
requirements.

But it also needs to be the RIGHT experience.

[introduction to another hate-filled obsessive need to defame
another...]

By whom?

Lennie the Liar has a lot of "experience" in SOME radio matters, but
zero-point-zero percent of it is as an Amateur Radio licensee.

"SOME?" Like since 1953? Like since 1956?

Living in the past again, I see....

What has nursie done in that other "SOME" of radio? Answrer:
Nottadamnthing. :-)

Then he shouldn't be making the rules for it...right?

Also
zero-point-zero experience in "emergency communications".

WRONG. Use Rev. Jim's Time Mashine and go back to 1994.
Some earth-shaking news awaits you, nursie.

What did you do back then, Len? And why are you still living in the past? 1994
was TEN YEARS AGO ;-) ;-)

His "traffic
handling" experience was as a radio clerk in the Army in the FIFTIES, and
his
experience in practical avionics goes back to his days as a STUDENT (never
licensed) pilot back when Lear organ-grinder radios were the "state of the
art".

WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

How is it wrong?

MOS 281.6 - Microwave Radio Relay Operations and Service
Supervisor plus brevet MOSs of Fixed Station Transmitter
Operations and Service, Carrier Systems Operations and
Service. [the "point-6" in that old MOS numbering is the
indicator of supervisory duties which I had as an E-5 S/Sgt]
1953 to 1956. "Three up and one down" after just 2 1/2
years. Earned.

So? That was your *job*, wasn't it, Len?

What's interesting is that you don;t mention that there were more than 700
*other* people at ADA when you were there...

"Practical avionics" includes airborne radar (both military and
civilian), airborne radionavigation equipment (TACAN, DME,
VOR, Localizer, Glideslope, and Marker Beacon) plus several
missle systems which few will know about, such as the old
Hughes Aircraft "Falcon" series or "Maverick." That at, in
chronological order, Ramo-Wooldridge (the "R" and "W" of
TRW now), Micro-Radionics Inc., Van Nuys, CA, EOS
[Electro-Optical Systems] a division of Xerox, Pasadena, CA
(mostly spacecraft stuff), RCA Corporation EASD (Electro-
magnetic and Aviation Systems Division), Van Nuys, CA,
Hughes Aircraft Missle Division (Hughes for the 2nd time,
this at the same buildings once leased by R-W), Canoga
Park, CA, and Teledyne Electronics, Newbury Park, CA
[designers and manufacturers of military transponders, what
civilians call "IFF"]. Wanna talk how that marvelous VOR
works? No problem...old NARCO box or an RCA 3 1/2"
instrument package that has it all...Nav and Com, with
MB and LOC and GS all packed in behind the OBS.
Wanna talk ground station VOR or TACAN? No problem
there, either. Wanna talk on-the-air while airborne? No
problem, done that too and not just with some UNICOM at
a grass field. More like the Western Airlines maintenance
facility at LAX.

So...did you work at all those places or just talk about them? Were you in sole
charge, or part of a much larger team?

BTW, oh great and ignorant bird of the radio universe, the
Army didn't have a "message center" at ADA. Other Army
message centers fed it and were fed in turn...ADA kept the
radio circuits working.

With over 700 people, when you were there. Yet you don't mention the team, just
yourself. Interesting, very interesting.

They still do that as they did at Fort
Irwin in 1989 for regimental level field radio (quite a bit different
than 35 years prior).

And they manage quite well without you, Len.

No manual telegraphy in the 50s, not in
the 80s, the 90s, or this new millennium.

So?

Sunnuvagun! Who would a thought it? No CW! :-)

How is that relevant to amateur radio?

Would you want HIM making binding decisions for you in regards to
Amateur Radio policy?

Yes, why trust the FCC to regulate amateur radio?

You're not the FCC, Len.

None at the
FCC need have ham licenses to do that.

Actually, there are a few hams at FCC, making the rules and recommendations
about those rules.

More importantly, those folks are professional regulatory people. You're not.

Riiiiiight...keep the beepers in charge of hum raddio...those mighty
macho morsemen keeping the airwaves pristine with the musick of
morse as they did in the old, old days. Archaic Radio Service, the
ARS of yeasteryear! [all rise...]

Sounds like you are jealous, Len.


Want radio OPERATING? Sure. No problem. Done it from
land, from water, from a cockpit while aloft. Want space comms?
Sorry, you can't do that yet, NASA can't afford to send Morose
Dysfunctionals off on expensive spaceships. I'll just stand in the
JPL mission control room (as I've done for a few missions) and
watch the live data come in from Mars or wherever. That be happy.
I've "worked" a station ON the moon. Stalker Stevie never did.

Just a spectator.

Goldstone more fun place, though it be hot, hot. Clear Lake fun
for a visit but I wouldn't wanna work there ("failure no option" in
the old days, not quite so now). Wanna get up at Oh-Dark-
Thirty to prep telemetry for an avionics package on a fast mover?
Done that too. Edwards. China Lake. Kern County Airport #7
(Mojave). Phooey, like my mornings quiet and late. Who needs
all that sweat to push envelopes? :-) Given my sweat, pushed an
envelope a couple times, sweated in the labs producing goodness
and newness, seen it work.

Just another groundpounder. Heck, even I can use the lingo. But you keep
reliving the past, leaving out the important details.

Ham radio would be fun.

It is. But you're just a spectator there, too.

What really burns your bacon is that even with all your alleged professional
experience, the FCC won't act on your recommendations and those of us who
actually *are* radio amateurs won't bow down to you. And despite all your
verbiage, you can't get some of us to respond in kind to your name calling and
other word games.

But, all the "intelligent people" wanna
recreate the hoary halcion days of the 1920s and 1930s.

How, Len?

By requiring a simple one-time 5 wpm code test?

Methinks you dost protest too much.

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

More spectrum is simply the reward system in use. It was chosen in
large
part because it's easy to enforce.


Another thought is that at HF frequencies, a inexperienced or poor
operator can propagate their signal over the whole world.

Under the right conditions, yes.

If I were to
be making a training ground for amateurs, it would be using line of
sight type signals

I disagree!

The greatest sustained period of growth in US amateur history was from the
end
of WW2 until the mid-to-late 1980s. From 60,000 hams on VJ day to about
600,000
40 or so years later. And this included a period of almost no growth in
the mid
1960s. Through most of that time, the training ground for new US amateurs
was
predominantly HF.
73 de Jim, N2EY

I agree with Jim's historical view. The advent of reliable VHF/UHF with
digital readouts and digital frequency selection at reasonable prices is
what ultimately opened up the significant amateur use at VHF and above.
The addition of repeaters also contibuted greatly to the VHF UHF
increase in operations.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Did you highlight the right answers or black out the wrong ones?

Neither!

Impressive.

When I was preparing for the old Extra test (pre-April 2000) all I did was
keep retaking the QRZ.COM practice tests until I consistently got 90%
or better. I actually started getting concictently at 100%.

Continued taking the online tests. For every question I got wrong on
the tests, I researched out the answer. Sources were reference books
and
the 'net.

Yep.

Continued until I scored 100 percent pretty consistently.

And the actual test was a breeze, right?

Wasn't too bad.

Of course you passed.

When I took the actual test, I thinkI completed it in less
than 10 minutes and handed it in.

What you did was to 'study the test'. Which isn't "wrong" or illegal,
despite
what some may rant about it. You did what worked for you, within the
rules.

Here's the thing, Jim. I can still remember the right answers. So did I
learn the material?

Maybe. If you were given a new exam on the same material that used
completely
different questions and answers, could you pass it? If so, then you know
the
material.

Given the subject material at the time and my lack of any specific
use of much of that material since, I'm not sure how I'd do. Answers to
questions
on space operations (FCC notification intervals), licensing and VE testing
rules, etc. don't stay with most people unless they have reason to
need that knowledge. Additionally, rules and regs can and do change
as we all know...so band edges, especially mode restrictions within a
specific band (e.g. novice sub-bands) change over time.

*If* you only care about right answers rather than understanding.

Not really. I saw a electrician licensing test book with question pool
recently. Lives depend on the electrician doing safe and proper work.
and they are depending on the Electrician knowing.

But someone cannot become a licensed electrician by written tests
alone.
There
are extensive practical tests and experience requirements as well, and
several
levels of licensing. IIRC, here in PA it takes 9000 hours of documented
work
experience under the supervision of a licensed electrician to be
licensed
at
the highest level.

Sure, but if you flunk the test, question pool and all, then you
aren't an electrician. 9000 hours of training aside.

Point is, if you pass the test but don;t have the 9000 hours you aren't an
electrician either.

True, but No similar "time in grade" applies to ham licensing.

(SNIP)

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


N2EY wrote:


In article , Mike Coslo
writes:



Did you highlight the right answers or black out the wrong ones?

Neither!


Impressive.


Well, there wasn't much point in going through the motions unless I was
actually going to learn something. Just the way I'm put together.

Continued taking the online tests. For every question I got wrong on
the tests, I researched out the answer. Sources were reference books and
the 'net.

Yep.


Continued until I scored 100 percent pretty consistently.

And the actual test was a breeze, right?

Wasn't too bad.


Of course you passed.

What you did was to 'study the test'. Which isn't "wrong" or illegal,
despite
what some may rant about it. You did what worked for you, within the rules.

Here's the thing, Jim. I can still remember the right answers. So did I
learn the material?


Maybe. If you were given a new exam on the same material that used completely
different questions and answers, could you pass it? If so, then you know the
material.

Yup, I could.


*If* you only care about right answers rather than understanding.

Not really. I saw a electrician licensing test book with question pool
recently. Lives depend on the electrician doing safe and proper work.
and they are depending on the Electrician knowing.



But someone cannot become a licensed electrician by written tests alone.
There
are extensive practical tests and experience requirements as well, and
several
levels of licensing. IIRC, here in PA it takes 9000 hours of documented
work
experience under the supervision of a licensed electrician to be licensed
at
the highest level.

Sure, but if you flunk the test, question pool and all, then you
aren't an electrician. 9000 hours of training aside.


Point is, if you pass the test but don;t have the 9000 hours you aren't an
electrician either.

Equal results, eh?

For example, I could ask:

- Which of the following are blunatrons? (Flufnagles, zinthorps, calinars,
rhenotors)

A) Fluffnagles and rhenotors only
B) Zinthorps only
C) Calinars and zinthorps only
D) Calinars, zinthorps and fluffnagles

(Of course the correct answer is C)

Your not going to catch me in a trick question, Mr. Micollis! Zinthorps


only exist at a temperature of absolute zero, and even then it's only a
theory!..........


Doesn't matter because the question pool committee has determined that C is the
correct answer. Note that there is no answer which reads "Calinars only".

Besides, you should know by now that a new type of superconducting
nanotechnology zinthorp has been developed that is real, not theory.
Impractical now because of the requirements for liquid helium cooling but in a
few years, who knows?

Now, if you remember that calinars and zinthorps are blunatrons but
fluffnagles
and rhenotors aren't, you'll always get the question right. But do you
really understand anything about blunatrons?




There was an old song called "Patches" that you may recall from high

school

days. Man is remembering how tough he had it as a kid. Among the folks I
grew up with, we still use the line

"And then the rains came, and washed all the crops away"

whenever somebody starts geezering.

hehe, I used to do a good rendition of the line after that - "And at
the age of thirteen, I felt I had the weight of the whooole world on my
shoulders" 8^)


"And Mama knew what I was going through..."

That's the one!

It's particularly effective when someone is going on and one about

something

like how tough it was to find a parking space, or how long the line at
Starbucks was this morning,

That's how the Republican party got started isn't it? ;^)


Exactly.

and three people do it, one taking each line...


"in harmony"



If the test administrator looks like Heidi Klum, or if I get to be *her*
test
administrator, I'll volunteer to put the system throuigh its paces. Heck,
I'll sign up for two weeks......

I've got dibs on Ms. Klum if she ever needs a ham radio instructor.

Nice lass. Can you believe I had to look her up on the web?


You must not pay attention to the magazine racks in the supermarket checkout
line...

Ahh, there it is. I probably go in a grocery store about once every two
years

Big problem is the name. I keep thinking of the old story of "Heidi", although

the

real one bears no resemblance!!


I also claim dibs on Molly Sims...

I can understand that. Just don't get too greedy here! 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -