"Bill Sohl" wrote in message link.net...
"N2EY" wrote in message
om...
(SNIP)
Besides, what it all comes down to is this:

Hams - old and new - didn't change the exam procedures. Neither did
ARRL, NCI, NCVEC or any other ham group. FCC did, because it saved
them resources.

We aren't going to a system other than multiple-choice
published-Q&A-pool exams in the foreseeable future. Just not gonna
happen.

73 de Jim, N2EY

More accurate to say: The systemn of multiple choice with
published Q&A is here to stay.

How's that more accurate, Bill?

It's always possible that the test system could change. Not very
probable, but possible.

But I wouldn't bet on it.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Hams - old and new - didn't change the exam procedures. Neither did
ARRL, NCI, NCVEC or any other ham group. FCC did, because it saved
them resources.

We aren't going to a system other than multiple-choice
published-Q&A-pool exams in the foreseeable future. Just not gonna
happen.



ANd then there's the question of what knowledge should be expected from
applicants anyway. Does it really require more knowledge and skill to
operate on 14.167 vs 14.344?

In article , Robert Casey
writes:

Hams - old and new - didn't change the exam procedures. Neither did
ARRL, NCI, NCVEC or any other ham group. FCC did, because it saved
them resources.

We aren't going to a system other than multiple-choice
published-Q&A-pool exams in the foreseeable future. Just not gonna
happen.

ANd then there's the question of what knowledge should be expected from
applicants anyway. Does it really require more knowledge and skill to
operate on 14.167 vs 14.344?

More spectrum is simply the reward system in use. It was chosen in large part
because it's easy to enforce.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Avery Hightower wrote:
Quote from FCC web, http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/t2.html

"Telegraphy Examinations Elements

Element 1 - 16 code groups per minute.

Element 2 - 20 code groups per minute.


Why was it 13 for hams, and 16 for the above? And
do they even give these tests anymore?

4 more months, not 4 more years!

In article , Robert Casey
writes:

Element 1 - 16 code groups per minute.

Element 2 - 20 code groups per minute.


Why was it 13 for hams, and 16 for the above?

Professional requirements were higher than amateur requirements. Code groups
are harder to copy than plain language, too.

And do they even give these tests anymore?

In theory they do. In practice you'd have to search high and low and set
something up.

4 more months, not 4 more years!

Hopefully.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"N2EY" wrote


Code groups are harder to copy than plain language, too.


On the contrary, when copying for a speed test (verbatim hard copy) 5
letter coded groups are FAR easier to copy than plain text. Most Navy
operators could copy coded groups at a about speed 20% higher than plain
text press.

73, de Hans, K0HB

In article et, "KØHB"
writes:

"N2EY" wrote

Code groups are harder to copy than plain language, too.

On the contrary, when copying for a speed test (verbatim hard copy) 5
letter coded groups are FAR easier to copy than plain text.

Well, Hans, IIRC the test standards usually worked the other way. IOW the
required speed was higher for plain text than for coded groups.

However, that doesn't necessarily mean it was harder. Since truly coded groups
lose the advantage of variable-lenght (Hoffman?) coding, that could account for
the speed difference.

It does make sense that copying code groups eliminates the need for one skill:
figuring out word spaces. You *know* that each group is 5 characters long.

Most Navy
operators could copy coded groups at a about speed 20% higher than plain
text press.

Well, that proves your point. Perhaps the difference in percevied difficulty
comes from the fact that most nonmilitary CW ops don't get a lot of practice on
code groups.

So I'll revise my statement:

"Whether code groups or plain language is harder to copy depends entirely on
the operator. Those with extensive experience in both report that code groups
are actually easier to copy."

Thanks for the info.

73 de Jim, N2EY

PAMNO (N2EY) wrote

It does make sense that copying code groups eliminates
the need for one skill: figuring out word spaces. You
*know* that each group is 5 characters long.

That's one factor, but a more important one is that the operator
copying coded groups has no temptation to 'understand' the message
being copied. This has two implications ---

1) The operator will not (consciously or unconsciously) attempt to
anticipate the word being sent, thus will not get 'flummoxed' when the
expected word is incorrect (for example hearing 't h e s' he might
expect the word to be "these" and transcribe it that way, only to have
it turn out to be "thespian", causing him to drop out of his "zone" to
fix the error, perhaps missing the following word.

2) If the operator is not trying to 'understand' the message being
copied, the mechanics of copying become more 'automatic' with (as one
old telegrapher described to me) a mode in which "the message follows
a short circuit between the eardrum and the fingertips without passing
through the brain". From this mode come the (true) tales of operators
who could seemingly "multi-task" copying Morse at a subcounscious
level, and carry on other activitives like carry on a conversation,
retune the receiver, or read a book at the same time.

73, de Hans, K0HB

"Avery Hightower" wrote in message link.net...
Quote from FCC web, http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/t2.html

"Telegraphy Examinations Elements

Element 1 - 16 code groups per minute.

Element 2 - 20 code groups per minute.
Telegraphy exams consist of both transmitting and receiving tests. Examinees
must copy by ear and send by hand plain text and code groups in the
international Morse code using all the letters of the alphabet, numerals
0-9, period, comma, question mark, slant mark, and prosigns AR, BT, and SK.
Examinees must copy and send at the required speeds for one continuous
minute without making any errors. Each test lasts approximately five
minutes. The failing of any code test automatically terminates the
examination.

Code speeds are computed using five letters per word or code group.
Punctuation symbols and numbers count as two letters each.

Examinees may use their own typewriter to copy the 25 words-per-minute
receiving test, but must copy tests at lower speeds by hand. Likewise,
examinees may use their own semi-automatic key to send the 25
word-per-minute sending test, but must send tests at lower speeds using a
hand key.

The Commission will grant credit for Telegraphy Elements 1 and 2 to
applicants who hold an unexpired (or within the grace period) FCC-issued
Amateur Extra Class operator license."


For those who just have to be tested.

Subject: FCC Morse testing at 16 and 20 WPM
From: "Tony Viglio"
Date: 7/14/2004 10:11 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

"KØHB" wrote in message
ink.net...

On the contrary, when copying for a speed test (verbatim hard copy) 5
letter coded groups are FAR easier to copy than plain text. Most Navy
operators could copy coded groups at a about speed 20% higher than plain
text press.

73, de Hans, K0HB

BULL####!

Well...there we have it...Another unqualified opinon from someone who
hasn't got the gonads of a two year old and can't express an opinon without
profanity.

Read that: CBer.

Steve, K4YZ