"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
N2EY wrote:
It's not just time in grade but actual supervised work experience. Back
in the
old days of a 2 year wait for Extra, a ham could just toss the General
license
in a drawer and do nothing for 2 years, yet the "experience" would still
count.

We aren't likely to see such experience requirements reinstated either,
IMHO.

Too bad, that!

My personal view is that I would have no problem with a "time-in-grade"
requirement to go from General to Extra. Odds are that if someone gets
a General and stays then two years later goes for Extra, they were
probably at least active as a ham and getting real experience based on
their interests in operating at whatever mode/band they like.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

Bill Sohl wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

N2EY wrote:

It's not just time in grade but actual supervised work experience. Back

in the

old days of a 2 year wait for Extra, a ham could just toss the General

license

in a drawer and do nothing for 2 years, yet the "experience" would still

count.

We aren't likely to see such experience requirements reinstated either,

IMHO.

Too bad, that!


My personal view is that I would have no problem with a "time-in-grade"
requirement to go from General to Extra. Odds are that if someone gets
a General and stays then two years later goes for Extra, they were
probably at least active as a ham and getting real experience based on
their interests in operating at whatever mode/band they like.


Correct! I know I made Extra a little sooner than I think I should
have. And I know some that made Extra waaay sooner than they should
have. I think that Amateur Extra should mean a little something, and
experience would help a lot in that respect. that hypothetical General
class that just puts the license in a drawer and does nothing for two
years, isn't likely to upgrade anyway.

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Bill Sohl wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

N2EY wrote:

It's not just time in grade but actual supervised work experience. Back

in the

old days of a 2 year wait for Extra, a ham could just toss the General

license

in a drawer and do nothing for 2 years, yet the "experience" would
still

count.

We aren't likely to see such experience requirements reinstated either,

IMHO.

Too bad, that!


My personal view is that I would have no problem with a "time-in-grade"
requirement to go from General to Extra. Odds are that if someone gets
a General and stays then two years later goes for Extra, they were
probably at least active as a ham and getting real experience based on
their interests in operating at whatever mode/band they like.


Correct! I know I made Extra a little sooner than I think I should
have. And I know some that made Extra waaay sooner than they should
have. I think that Amateur Extra should mean a little something, and
experience would help a lot in that respect. that hypothetical General
class that just puts the license in a drawer and does nothing for two
years, isn't likely to upgrade anyway.

- Mike KB3EIA -


I've also believed that time in grade at the General level should be
required (it would have helped me) but that didn't stop me from personally
moving to Extra as fast as I was capable of doing so!

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

I've also believed that time in grade at the General level should be
required (it would have helped me) but that didn't stop me from personally
moving to Extra as fast as I was capable of doing so!

Some time back, I proposed a three-class license structure here. One of the
requirements was a year experience at each level.

Boy did that catch flak!

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:

In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:


I've also believed that time in grade at the General level should be
required (it would have helped me) but that didn't stop me from personally
moving to Extra as fast as I was capable of doing so!


Some time back, I proposed a three-class license structure here. One of the
requirements was a year experience at each level.

Boy did that catch flak!

Was that before I came in? I would support that!

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Some time back, I proposed a three-class license structure here. One of the
requirements was a year experience at each level.

Boy did that catch flak!

Was that before I came in? I would support that!

Here's one version - note the date, and this wasn't the first incarnation:


From: N2EY )
Subject: What SHOULD ham licenses test for?
View: Complete Thread (212 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.policy
Date: 2002-05-23 13:18:22 PST

(some snippage)

So the following license structure/test structure is suggested:

1) Three classes of license: Basic, Intermediate, Full (change the names
if you don't like them)

2) HF/MF bands split into subbands by mode and split again by license class.
Some bands may be split by mode only. ("Mode" meaning "narrow/CW/digital"
vs. "wide/analog phone-image/digital"

3) "Basic" license test is simple 20-25 question exam on regs, procedures,
and safety. Very little technical and RF exposure stuff. Main objective
is to keep Basics out of trouble. Basics get 100-150 watts on HF/MF and
25 watts or so on VHF/UHF (power level determined by RF exposure limits).
Modes are CW, analog voice, PSK31 and many of the other common data
modes
like packet. Basics cannot be VEs, control ops for repeaters, or club
trustees. Basics get most VHF/UHF and about half of HF/MF spectrum. Basic
is meant as the entry level. Easy to get, lots of privs, yet there's still
a reason to upgrade.

4) "Intermediate" license test is more complex 50-60 question exam on regs,
procedures, safety and technical stuff. Intermediates get 300-400 watts
on all bands, all modes. Intermediates can be VEs after qualification
(see below), control ops for repeaters, and club trustees. Intermediates
get all VHF/UHF and about three quarters (or more) of HF/MF spectrum.
Intermediate requires at least one year experience as a Basic.

5) "Full" license test is quite complex 100-120 question exam on regs,
procedures, safety and technical stuff. Mostly technical, with some regs
to cover expanded privs. Fulls get all privileges, modes, bands, etc.
except that Fulls can be VEs only after qualification (see below). Full
license requires at least one year (preferably two years) as an
Intermediate.

6) All licenses are 10 year and fully renewable/modifiable.

7) Basics have six-character calls, Intermediates have five- or six-character
calls, and Fulls have four-, five-, or six-character calls. Nobody has to
give up an existing callsign.

8) There is a separate 30-35 question test for VE qualification, open to
Intermediates and Fulls, which allows them to be VEs. Existing VEs are
grandfathered.

9) Existing Novices become Basics, existing Techs, Tech Pluses, Generals and
Advanceds become Intermediates, and existing Extras become Fulls.

10) Experience requirement is not waived for existing hams to upgrade, but
their time in existing classes counts.

End result is a system that is easy to get into (Basic is envisioned as a 21st
century version of the Novice) and has reasonable but meaningful steps to reach
full privileges. Testing matches the privs granted. Power levels are set about
one S-unit apart. Current hams would be allowed to use the existing power
levels so nobody loses privileges. There are only three license classes and
four written tests, so FCC doesn't have more work.



73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


Some time back, I proposed a three-class license structure here. One of the
requirements was a year experience at each level.

Boy did that catch flak!

Was that before I came in? I would support that!


Here's one version - note the date, and this wasn't the first incarnation:


From: N2EY )
Subject: What SHOULD ham licenses test for?
View: Complete Thread (212 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.policy
Date: 2002-05-23 13:18:22 PST

(some snippage)

So the following license structure/test structure is suggested:

1) Three classes of license: Basic, Intermediate, Full (change the names
if you don't like them)

2) HF/MF bands split into subbands by mode and split again by license class.
Some bands may be split by mode only. ("Mode" meaning "narrow/CW/digital"
vs. "wide/analog phone-image/digital"

3) "Basic" license test is simple 20-25 question exam on regs, procedures,
and safety. Very little technical and RF exposure stuff. Main objective
is to keep Basics out of trouble. Basics get 100-150 watts on HF/MF and
25 watts or so on VHF/UHF (power level determined by RF exposure limits).
Modes are CW, analog voice, PSK31 and many of the other common data
modes
like packet. Basics cannot be VEs, control ops for repeaters, or club
trustees. Basics get most VHF/UHF and about half of HF/MF spectrum. Basic
is meant as the entry level. Easy to get, lots of privs, yet there's still
a reason to upgrade.

4) "Intermediate" license test is more complex 50-60 question exam on regs,
procedures, safety and technical stuff. Intermediates get 300-400 watts
on all bands, all modes. Intermediates can be VEs after qualification
(see below), control ops for repeaters, and club trustees. Intermediates
get all VHF/UHF and about three quarters (or more) of HF/MF spectrum.
Intermediate requires at least one year experience as a Basic.

5) "Full" license test is quite complex 100-120 question exam on regs,
procedures, safety and technical stuff. Mostly technical, with some regs
to cover expanded privs. Fulls get all privileges, modes, bands, etc.
except that Fulls can be VEs only after qualification (see below). Full
license requires at least one year (preferably two years) as an
Intermediate.

6) All licenses are 10 year and fully renewable/modifiable.

7) Basics have six-character calls, Intermediates have five- or six-character
calls, and Fulls have four-, five-, or six-character calls. Nobody has to
give up an existing callsign.

8) There is a separate 30-35 question test for VE qualification, open to
Intermediates and Fulls, which allows them to be VEs. Existing VEs are
grandfathered.

9) Existing Novices become Basics, existing Techs, Tech Pluses, Generals and
Advanceds become Intermediates, and existing Extras become Fulls.

10) Experience requirement is not waived for existing hams to upgrade, but
their time in existing classes counts.

End result is a system that is easy to get into (Basic is envisioned as a 21st
century version of the Novice) and has reasonable but meaningful steps to reach
full privileges. Testing matches the privs granted. Power levels are set about
one S-unit apart. Current hams would be allowed to use the existing power
levels so nobody loses privileges. There are only three license classes and
four written tests, so FCC doesn't have more work.


All sounds good to me, Jim. I don't see any show stoppers or anything dum.

- mike KB3EIA -

Subject: FCC Morse testing at 16 and 20 WPMwa
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 7/20/2004 4:56 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

I've also believed that time in grade at the General level should be
required (it would have helped me) but that didn't stop me from personally
moving to Extra as fast as I was capable of doing so!

Some time back, I proposed a three-class license structure here. One of the
requirements was a year experience at each level.

Where did you get the "year's experience" for the FIRST level, Jim...?!?!

Boy did that catch flak!

Nyuknyuknyuk

Steve, K4YZ

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

I've also believed that time in grade at the General level should be
required (it would have helped me) but that didn't stop me from
personally
moving to Extra as fast as I was capable of doing so!

Some time back, I proposed a three-class license structure here. One of
the
requirements was a year experience at each level.

Boy did that catch flak!

Where I don't see any need for time in grade is between the
entry level (i.e. beginner) and the intermediate (e.g. General).
Perhaps that's why you got such major flak.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

In article et, "Bill Sohl"
writes:

Where I don't see any need for time in grade is between the
entry level (i.e. beginner) and the intermediate (e.g. General).

Why not?

Perhaps that's why you got such major flak.

I think there were other reasons....

73 de Jim, N2EY