In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

Things are changing with more and more citizens able to lobby the
FCC without having to join special interest groups. Changes are
coming....

You've lobbied. I don't see any changes in your status vis a vis amateur
radio.

Don't hold yer breath, Dave!

You're still not a participant after decades of self-declared
interest. You're still not involved despite a boast of getting an
"Extra right out of the box" years back.

January 19, 2000, to be exact. Right in this-here newsgroup. Of course he was
"Lenof21" then.

Some changes must come very slowly.

Fun facts:

- Despite his claims of being online since dirt was new, Len could not get ECFS
to work for him back in early 1999. Couldn't keep up with the times, I suspect.
Most of us poor old backward hams got ECFS to work for us, though. He wound up
submitting his 98-143 comments by US mail, on disk and paper. He's been a busy
wordsmith since then, though, deluging the FCC with commentary. Most of it is
obvious cut-and-paste. Poor Bill Cross.

- FCC got about 2500 comments on 98-143, the last big restructuring. Back in
the mid-1960s, FCC got over 6000 comments on "incentive licensing", most of
them from individuals, even though there was no ECFS back then and all
commentary was plain old words-on-paper.

- ARRL lobbied to increase the code test speed from 10 to 12.5 wpm in 1936.
That was the last time ARRL lobbied for an increase in code test speeds.
Indeed, the 1963 ARRL incentive licensing proposal called for no increase in
code test speeds (full privileges would have been allowed to Advanceds under
that plan) and ARRL *opposed* the FCC idea of a new 16 wpm test for "Amateur
First Class" which FCC wanted in 1965.

- No class of US amateur radio license has required more than 5 wpm code test
since 2000. No class of US amateur radio license has required more than 5 wpm
code test since 1990 (with an easily-obtained medical waiver, and a long list
of possible accomodations).


Yet Len's sole involvement is the harangue of an outsider. Kibitzer. Sidewalk
superintendent.

Gladys Kravitz effect.

"Not that there's anything wrong with that!"

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

Things are changing with more and more citizens able to lobby the
FCC without having to join special interest groups. Changes are
coming....

You've lobbied. I don't see any changes in your status vis a vis amateur
radio.

Don't hold yer breath, Dave!

Oh, I won't. I don't expect Leonard (despite often writing of "getting
into" amateur radio) to actually obtain a license during his present
incarnation.

You're still not a participant after decades of self-declared
interest. You're still not involved despite a boast of getting an
"Extra right out of the box" years back.

January 19, 2000, to be exact. Right in this-here newsgroup. Of course he was
"Lenof21" then.

I remember that one and Cutey Boy's memorable statement. They are,
you'll have to admit, quite similar in outcome.

Some changes must come very slowly.

Fun facts:

- Despite his claims of being online since dirt was new, Len could not get ECFS
to work for him back in early 1999. Couldn't keep up with the times, I suspect.
Most of us poor old backward hams got ECFS to work for us, though. He wound up
submitting his 98-143 comments by US mail, on disk and paper. He's been a busy
wordsmith since then, though, deluging the FCC with commentary. Most of it is
obvious cut-and-paste. Poor Bill Cross.

It'd be interesting to see if our resident r.r.a.p. g.o.m. (grumpy old
man) is the most prolific of commenters.

- FCC got about 2500 comments on 98-143, the last big restructuring. Back in
the mid-1960s, FCC got over 6000 comments on "incentive licensing", most of
them from individuals, even though there was no ECFS back then and all
commentary was plain old words-on-paper.

Did Leonard comment on incentive licensing? His declared interest in
amateur radio would have taken him back to that era.

- ARRL lobbied to increase the code test speed from 10 to 12.5 wpm in 1936.
That was the last time ARRL lobbied for an increase in code test speeds.
Indeed, the 1963 ARRL incentive licensing proposal called for no increase in
code test speeds (full privileges would have been allowed to Advanceds under
that plan) and ARRL *opposed* the FCC idea of a new 16 wpm test for "Amateur
First Class" which FCC wanted in 1965.

So the mythical "Church of St. Hiram" isn't at all as Len has attempted
to portray it?

- No class of US amateur radio license has required more than 5 wpm code test
since 2000. No class of US amateur radio license has required more than 5 wpm
code test since 1990 (with an easily-obtained medical waiver, and a long list
of possible accomodations).

Yet Len's sole involvement is the harangue of an outsider. Kibitzer. Sidewalk
superintendent.

I've pointed that out to him on numerous occasions. Len could have
easily passed a no code exam. I feel sure that, despite the enormous
obstacle of a 5 wpm code test, he could have met the qualifications of
at least one of the HF license classes. He hasn't. If his intention is
to wait until there is no code test for an HF amateur radio license,
fine. He's really showing us.

Gladys Kravitz effect.

Does Len have a chin?

"Not that there's anything wrong with that!"

Dave K8MN

Subject: ARRL to propose subband-by-bandwidth regulation
From: Dave Heil
Date: 8/28/2004 8:02 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

N2EY wrote:

In article , Dave Heil

writes:

- Despite his claims of being online since dirt was new, Len could not get
ECFS
to work for him back in early 1999. Couldn't keep up with the times, I
suspect.
Most of us poor old backward hams got ECFS to work for us, though. He wound
up
submitting his 98-143 comments by US mail, on disk and paper. He's been a
busy
wordsmith since then, though, deluging the FCC with commentary. Most of it
is
obvious cut-and-paste. Poor Bill Cross.

It'd be interesting to see if our resident r.r.a.p. g.o.m. (grumpy old
man) is the most prolific of commenters.

Well ya KNOW he is!

I counted at least 12 "reply comments" to recent actions wherein Lennie
did what Lennie does best...Tried to attack the messenger. And there were even
more that I didn't open.

Oh, he polishes it up well...(Or was that his ghost writer...I never can
tell...), but bottom line...Lennie did his best to attack anyone who presented
an effective argument by trying to diminish the messenger...

Gee...

Where have we seen THAT before...?!?!

73

Steve, K4YZ

Dave Heil wrote in message ...

I remember that one and Cutey Boy's memorable statement. They are,
you'll have to admit, quite similar in outcome.

I don't think Len ever "crapped his hands."

William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...

I remember that one and Cutey Boy's memorable statement. They are,
you'll have to admit, quite similar in outcome.

I don't think Len ever "crapped his hands."

Not actually. Not his hands.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...

I remember that one and Cutey Boy's memorable statement. They are,
you'll have to admit, quite similar in outcome.

I don't think Len ever "crapped his hands."

Not actually. Not his hands.

Dave K8MN

Maybe they just peed in your branchwater.

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

N2EY wrote:

In article , Dave Heil

writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

Things are changing with more and more citizens able to lobby the
FCC without having to join special interest groups. Changes are
coming....

You've lobbied. I don't see any changes in your status vis a vis amateur
radio.

Don't hold yer breath, Dave!

Oh, I won't. I don't expect Leonard (despite often writing of "getting
into" amateur radio) to actually obtain a license during his present
incarnation.

The license is the least of it. Setting up a station and actually operating it,
without government or corporate backing is the bigger challenge these days.

You're still not a participant after decades of self-declared
interest. You're still not involved despite a boast of getting an
"Extra right out of the box" years back.

January 19, 2000, to be exact. Right in this-here newsgroup. Of course he
was "Lenof21" then.

I remember that one and Cutey Boy's memorable statement. They are,
you'll have to admit, quite similar in outcome.

You mean neither has yet made good on what they said they'd do.

Some changes must come very slowly.

Fun facts:

- Despite his claims of being online since dirt was new, Len could not get
ECFS
to work for him back in early 1999. Couldn't keep up with the times, I
suspect.
Most of us poor old backward hams got ECFS to work for us, though. He
wound up
submitting his 98-143 comments by US mail, on disk and paper. He's been a
busy
wordsmith since then, though, deluging the FCC with commentary. Most of it
is obvious cut-and-paste. Poor Bill Cross.

It'd be interesting to see if our resident r.r.a.p. g.o.m. (grumpy old
man) is the most prolific of commenters.

In sheer volume, he's probably pretty close to the top for an induhvidual
commenter.

Poor Bill Cross.

- FCC got about 2500 comments on 98-143, the last big restructuring. Back
in
the mid-1960s, FCC got over 6000 comments on "incentive licensing", most of
them from individuals, even though there was no ECFS back then and all
commentary was plain old words-on-paper.

Did Leonard comment on incentive licensing?

I don't know. His recall of that regulatory proceeding is quite innaccurate.

His declared interest in
amateur radio would have taken him back to that era.

I "have an interest" in learning Japanese. I know about a half-dozen words in
that language.

- ARRL lobbied to increase the code test speed from 10 to 12.5 wpm in 1936.
That was the last time ARRL lobbied for an increase in code test speeds.
Indeed, the 1963 ARRL incentive licensing proposal called for no increase
in
code test speeds (full privileges would have been allowed to Advanceds
under
that plan) and ARRL *opposed* the FCC idea of a new 16 wpm test for
"Amateur First Class" which FCC wanted in 1965.

So the mythical "Church of St. Hiram" isn't at all as Len has attempted
to portray it?

If you mean the ARRL, its policy and operations are quite different than what
Len portrays.

- No class of US amateur radio license has required more than 5 wpm code
test
since 2000. No class of US amateur radio license has required more than 5
wpm
code test since 1990 (with an easily-obtained medical waiver, and a long
list of possible accomodations).

Yet Len's sole involvement is the harangue of an outsider. Kibitzer.
Sidewalk superintendent.

I've pointed that out to him on numerous occasions. Len could have
easily passed a no code exam. I feel sure that, despite the enormous
obstacle of a 5 wpm code test, he could have met the qualifications of
at least one of the HF license classes. He hasn't. If his intention is
to wait until there is no code test for an HF amateur radio license,
fine. He's really showing us.

Gladys Kravitz effect.

Does Len have a chin?

"Not that there's anything wrong with that!"

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

N2EY wrote:

In article , Dave Heil

writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

Things are changing with more and more citizens able to lobby the
FCC without having to join special interest groups. Changes are
coming....

You've lobbied. I don't see any changes in your status vis a vis amateur
radio.

Don't hold yer breath, Dave!

Oh, I won't. I don't expect Leonard (despite often writing of "getting
into" amateur radio) to actually obtain a license during his present
incarnation.

The license is the least of it. Setting up a station and actually operating it,
without government or corporate backing is the bigger challenge these days.

His "big time" operations always had government or corporate backing.

You're still not a participant after decades of self-declared
interest. You're still not involved despite a boast of getting an
"Extra right out of the box" years back.

January 19, 2000, to be exact. Right in this-here newsgroup. Of course he
was "Lenof21" then.

I remember that one and Cutey Boy's memorable statement. They are,
you'll have to admit, quite similar in outcome.

You mean neither has yet made good on what they said they'd do.

Precisely.

Some changes must come very slowly.

Fun facts:

- Despite his claims of being online since dirt was new, Len could not get
ECFS
to work for him back in early 1999. Couldn't keep up with the times, I
suspect.
Most of us poor old backward hams got ECFS to work for us, though. He
wound up
submitting his 98-143 comments by US mail, on disk and paper. He's been a
busy
wordsmith since then, though, deluging the FCC with commentary. Most of it
is obvious cut-and-paste. Poor Bill Cross.

It'd be interesting to see if our resident r.r.a.p. g.o.m. (grumpy old
man) is the most prolific of commenters.

In sheer volume, he's probably pretty close to the top for an induhvidual
commenter.

Poor Bill Cross.

I don't think Bill suffers from Len's copious output. He likely glosses
over when his eyes glaze over.

- FCC got about 2500 comments on 98-143, the last big restructuring. Back
in
the mid-1960s, FCC got over 6000 comments on "incentive licensing", most of
them from individuals, even though there was no ECFS back then and all
commentary was plain old words-on-paper.

Did Leonard comment on incentive licensing?

I don't know. His recall of that regulatory proceeding is quite innaccurate.

His declared interest in
amateur radio would have taken him back to that era.

I "have an interest" in learning Japanese. I know about a half-dozen words in
that language.

I'm "interested" in learning to weld. I know three people with welders.

- ARRL lobbied to increase the code test speed from 10 to 12.5 wpm in 1936.
That was the last time ARRL lobbied for an increase in code test speeds.
Indeed, the 1963 ARRL incentive licensing proposal called for no increase
in
code test speeds (full privileges would have been allowed to Advanceds
under
that plan) and ARRL *opposed* the FCC idea of a new 16 wpm test for
"Amateur First Class" which FCC wanted in 1965.

So the mythical "Church of St. Hiram" isn't at all as Len has attempted
to portray it?

If you mean the ARRL, its policy and operations are quite different than what
Len portrays.

I do mean the ARRL. I share your view.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
N2EY wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

The license is the least of it. Setting up a station and actually operating it,
without government or corporate backing is the bigger challenge these days.

His "big time" operations always had government or corporate backing.

His ONLY operating has always been dependent upon the STATION
license or other federal grant or approval.

That grant has always specified the mode and power. Lennie has
never had the discretion of choosing the mode, time, power or
application other thanwhat the grant allowed.

Poor Bill Cross.

I don't think Bill suffers from Len's copious output. He likely glosses
over when his eyes glaze over.

I imagine a person in Mr Cross' position can seperate the bull
from the bullstuff. His protestations to the contrary, Lennie's own
"replies" are pretty much "kill the messenger" kinda stuff.

- FCC got about 2500 comments on 98-143, the last big restructuring. Back
in
the mid-1960s, FCC got over 6000 comments on "incentive licensing", most of
them from individuals, even though there was no ECFS back then and all
commentary was plain old words-on-paper.

Did Leonard comment on incentive licensing?

I don't know. His recall of that regulatory proceeding is quite innaccurate.

His declared interest in
amateur radio would have taken him back to that era.

I "have an interest" in learning Japanese. I know about a half-dozen words in
that language.

I'm "interested" in learning to weld. I know three people with welders.

Don't forget "My best friend is an Army buddy who is a Ham..."

- ARRL lobbied to increase the code test speed from 10 to 12.5 wpm in 1936.
That was the last time ARRL lobbied for an increase in code test speeds.
Indeed, the 1963 ARRL incentive licensing proposal called for no increase
in
code test speeds (full privileges would have been allowed to Advanceds
under
that plan) and ARRL *opposed* the FCC idea of a new 16 wpm test for
"Amateur First Class" which FCC wanted in 1965.

So the mythical "Church of St. Hiram" isn't at all as Len has attempted
to portray it?

If you mean the ARRL, its policy and operations are quite different than what
Len portrays.

I do mean the ARRL. I share your view.

Tritto on the ditto.

73

Steve, K4YZ

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Oh, I won't. I don't expect Leonard (despite often writing of "getting
into" amateur radio) to actually obtain a license during his present
incarnation.

The license is the least of it. Setting up a station and actually operating
it,
without government or corporate backing is the bigger challenge these days.

His "big time" operations always had government or corporate backing.

Except they weren't "his" operations. Len did not design, build, or pay for
ADA, for example. Nor did he "operate" the transmitters there, in the sense
that hams "operate" their stations.

If you read his exploits carefully, you begin to realize that in most
situations he was one of a large group, not an independent operator. Not that
there's anything wrong with either.

I wonder at Steve/K4YZ's repeated challenges for Len to get a ham license.
Would Steve rather have Len on the ham bands or here?

I remember that one and Cutey Boy's memorable statement. They are,
you'll have to admit, quite similar in outcome.

You mean neither has yet made good on what they said they'd do.

Precisely.

So why get all upset? I sure don't. Len's not going to show up on the ham
bands. He's not going to write any new technical articles of any consequence
for amateur radio publications. He's not going to show up on 7037 kHz CW, nor
best any of us in a contest or DXCC.

Some changes must come very slowly.

Fun facts:

- Despite his claims of being online since dirt was new, Len could not
get ECFS
to work for him back in early 1999. Couldn't keep up with the times, I
suspect.
Most of us poor old backward hams got ECFS to work for us, though. He
wound up
submitting his 98-143 comments by US mail, on disk and paper. He's been
a busy
wordsmith since then, though, deluging the FCC with commentary. Most of
it is obvious cut-and-paste. Poor Bill Cross.

It'd be interesting to see if our resident r.r.a.p. g.o.m. (grumpy old
man) is the most prolific of commenters.

In sheer volume, he's probably pretty close to the top for an induhvidual
commenter.

Poor Bill Cross.

I don't think Bill suffers from Len's copious output. He likely glosses
over when his eyes glaze over.

*Somebody* at FCC has to read all of it.

- FCC got about 2500 comments on 98-143, the last big restructuring.
Back in
the mid-1960s, FCC got over 6000 comments on "incentive licensing",
most of
them from individuals, even though there was no ECFS back then and all
commentary was plain old words-on-paper.

Did Leonard comment on incentive licensing?

I don't know. His recall of that regulatory proceeding is quite
inaccurate.

What's interesting, too, is that back in those pre-ECFS times, FCC got more
than twice as many comments, even though there were far fewer hams and far
fewer Americans than today.

His declared interest in
amateur radio would have taken him back to that era.

I "have an interest" in learning Japanese. I know about a half-dozen words
in that language.

I'm "interested" in learning to weld. I know three people with welders.

Domo arigato.

- ARRL lobbied to increase the code test speed from 10 to 12.5 wpm in
1936.
That was the last time ARRL lobbied for an increase in code test speeds.
Indeed, the 1963 ARRL incentive licensing proposal called for no
increase in
code test speeds (full privileges would have been allowed to Advanceds
under
that plan) and ARRL *opposed* the FCC idea of a new 16 wpm test for
"Amateur First Class" which FCC wanted in 1965.

So the mythical "Church of St. Hiram" isn't at all as Len has attempted
to portray it?

If you mean the ARRL, its policy and operations are quite different than
what Len portrays.

I do mean the ARRL. I share your view.

So Len does, indeed, promulgate myths.

73 de Jim, N2EY