Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message

Wrong. Incorrect. Not true at all in the real world of HF radio.

Len has just demonstrated, once more, that he just doesn't get it.

You expected anything else??

"Real world of HF radio?" The one that goes from 3 MHz to 30 MHz?

Amateur activity is concerned only with a fraction of that.

That's right. That portion of the radio spectrum used by radio
amateurs.
That's the portion of the spectrum of concern to those in this
newsgroup.

Amateur licenses aren't legal for out-of-amateur band transmission
even if one has a four-on-the-floor extra license.

Right again. We all knew that. It hasn't bothered us in the least.

Has nothing to do with the subject at hand, which is HF amateur radio.

Spank.

Kellie has a spanking fetish?

The SUBJECT AT HAND is "US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???

Look at the subject line in the message header.

Try to get your subject threads in a row, ducks.

Wouldn't you just love to know the last date on which you commented on
the topic in that header? Shall I google it up for you?

As far as on-off keyed radiotelegraphy, your mention of "phase noise"
as being "crud" in synthesizer frequency control is akin to making
a big case for gold-plated music system speaker wires. :-)

Wrong again, Len.

What a goofball . . .

Where was all the noise about phase noise BEFORE the
cellular equipment expansion? There were oscillators around
then, even PLL frequency control systems.

You didn't read about it; therefore, it could not have taken place.
Izzat about it?

Phase noise was NOT an important buzzword then. Now it is,
coincidental with the cell phone equipment and component
makers using it in their advertisements.

Your facts are wrong.

Conclusion: Too many hams get their "technical expertise"
by memorizing advertisement copy instead of theory texts.

And if your facts are wrong, you end up with a wrong conclusion.


How many points did Len get with it in the last CQWW? Or even the last SS
or Field Day?

Or in RRAP.

Tsk. Jimmie and Kellie avoid answering or discussing. Misdirection
is all they can do...but that is traditional in Usenet since before it was
split from the ARPANET. Saw it then, still see it now...all the
self-professed "experts" making like renowned gurus, dissing and
cussing anyone who disagrees with their immortal words.

I dunno, Len...That sounds an awfully lot like you.


However, I HAVE had experience in civilian and military radio
communications, radionavigation equipment (TACAN, DME, VOR,
Localizer, Glideslope), IFF transponders, radars (search, weather,
target acquisition and tracking), earlier air-to-air missle systems
(principally the first Hughes Aircraft GARs 1 through 4), and the
strange McDonnel decoy drone that could imitate formations of
B-52s to Russky radar...using a TWT as a broadband mixer
covering many octaves.

You just had to get him started again, eh Brian?


Sweetums is a
perfect example of these windbags.

"Windbags?" :-)

That pretty well sums it up.


Kellie and Jimmie want "my scores from the last Field Day" as
one loaded "challenge." :-) Not all amateurs participate in
"Field Day" and no non-amateur-licensee can possibly operate
legally. An example of a NON-challenge, already-known answer
disguised as a sort-of (sort off, really) "civil discourse" question.

No non-amateur-licensee can possibly operate legally on Field Day? I'd
think you'd get one right once in a great while, Leonard. That response
would be wrong.

Dave K8MN

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Kellie and Jimmie want "my scores from the last Field Day" as
one loaded "challenge." :-) Not all amateurs participate in
"Field Day" and no non-amateur-licensee can possibly operate
legally. An example of a NON-challenge, already-known answer
disguised as a sort-of (sort off, really) "civil discourse" question.

No non-amateur-licensee can possibly operate legally on Field Day? I'd
think you'd get one right once in a great while, Leonard. That response
would be wrong.

No, he's right, Dave.

FCC specifically defines the term "operate an amateur radio station". It means
to be the control oeprator, responsible for rules compliance. By definition,
only a licensed ham can do that. Others "participate in amateur radio". Len
cannot legally operate an amateur radio station, according to FCC. Nor can
Michael Powell, for that matter.

But all that is besides the point. What matters most in amateur radio - or any
field of endeavor, really - is what is actually done, not what's theoretically
possible. That's the point of the story about my highschool friend who had lots
of great ideas (and lots of criticism) but no station of his own. The computer
folks have a word for it: Vaporware.

Who do you have more respect for, Dave:

The person with a modest amateur station who is actually on the air making QSOs

or

The person who talks endlessly about "state of the art", "better modes and
modulations", "the future of amateur radio", "progress", etc., etc., yet who
isn't on the ham bands at all?

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article , PAMNO
(N2EY) writes:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Kellie and Jimmie want "my scores from the last Field Day" as
one loaded "challenge." :-) Not all amateurs participate in
"Field Day" and no non-amateur-licensee can possibly operate
legally. An example of a NON-challenge, already-known answer
disguised as a sort-of (sort off, really) "civil discourse" question.

No non-amateur-licensee can possibly operate legally on Field Day? I'd
think you'd get one right once in a great while, Leonard. That response
would be wrong.

No, he's right, Dave.

FCC specifically defines the term "operate an amateur radio station". It means
to be the control oeprator, responsible for rules compliance. By definition,
only a licensed ham can do that. Others "participate in amateur radio". Len
cannot legally operate an amateur radio station, according to FCC. Nor can
Michael Powell, for that matter.

Tsk, tsk. I CAN "legally" operate lots of OTHER radio service
radios...and radio amateur licensees can NOT do so... :-)

Mikey ("Mr. BPL") Powell and papa Colin both operated radios when
they were in the U.S. Army. Not amateur radios. Professional
soldier radios. [they are both former Army officers]

Sunnuvagun!

But all that is besides the point. What matters most in amateur radio - or any
field of endeavor, really - is what is actually done, not what's theoretically
possible. That's the point of the story about my highschool friend who had
lots
of great ideas (and lots of criticism) but no station of his own. The computer
folks have a word for it: Vaporware.

"Vaporware" is best suited for newsgroup commentary by self-
styled PCTA radio police describing their "reasons" for retention
of the morse code test. :-)

Who do you have more respect for, Dave:

Any PCTA who worships at the Church of St. Hiram.

The person who talks endlessly about "state of the art", "better modes and
modulations", "the future of amateur radio", "progress", etc., etc., yet who
isn't on the ham bands at all?

Tsk. Keep the faith, Jimmie, make that Living Museum of Archaic
Radiotelegraphy continue...hold everyone back in the tube era
with all those "recycled" parts.

Keep talking snarly at all those non-ham people who have actually
had an entire career in radio-electronics involved in the contstantly-
changing state of the electronics and radio arts...and succeeded.

Work that key and collect those points and QSLs, remake tube
bases into plug-in coil forms, memorize all those schematics to
be the Ninth Wonder of the Radio world to anyone visiting your
shack. Force everyone to learn telegraphy to play in your ham
sandbox on HF.

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , PAMNO
(N2EY) writes:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:
Tsk, tsk. I CAN "legally" operate lots of OTHER radio service
radios...and radio amateur licensees can NOT do so... :-)

Izzat supposed to impress us? What's keeping you from it? Have a ball.

Mikey ("Mr. BPL") Powell and papa Colin both operated radios when
they were in the U.S. Army. Not amateur radios. Professional
soldier radios. [they are both former Army officers]

Sunnuvagun!

That should thrill the gang at alt.I.used.to.be.a.sojer

Who do you have more respect for, Dave:

Any PCTA who worships at the Church of St. Hiram.

That'd be wrong.

The person who talks endlessly about "state of the art", "better modes and
modulations", "the future of amateur radio", "progress", etc., etc., yet who
isn't on the ham bands at all?

Tsk. Keep the faith, Jimmie, make that Living Museum of Archaic
Radiotelegraphy continue...hold everyone back in the tube era
with all those "recycled" parts.

Couldn't you come up with a real response to Jim's query to me?

Keep talking snarly at all those non-ham people who have actually
had an entire career in radio-electronics involved in the contstantly-
changing state of the electronics and radio arts...and succeeded.

"Talking snarly"? I didn't note any snarly at all. You may well have
succeeded in the career goals you set for yourself. Dandy. That really
has nothing to do with amateur radio. You've certainly failed to act on
your several decades of declared interest in amateur radio. You've not
even *attempted* to obtain the most basic of licenses, much less that
"Extra right out of the box". Do you see this statement of facts as
"talking snarly"?

Work that key and collect those points and QSLs, remake tube
bases into plug-in coil forms, memorize all those schematics to
be the Ninth Wonder of the Radio world to anyone visiting your
shack. Force everyone to learn telegraphy to play in your ham
sandbox on HF.

He can do that or anything else permitted by an amateur radio license.
You simply aren't involved.

Dave K8MN

Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: Dave Heil
Date: 10/4/2004 12:26 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Len Over 21 wrote:

Keep talking snarly at all those non-ham people who have actually
had an entire career in radio-electronics involved in the contstantly-
changing state of the electronics and radio arts...and succeeded.

"Talking snarly"? I didn't note any snarly at all. You may well have
succeeded in the career goals you set for yourself. Dandy. That really
has nothing to do with amateur radio.

Lennie's "success" in "professional radio" was getting by on the works
of others and not gettting sued for it. More a successful con-man than
"professional in radio"

73

Steve, K4YZ

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...
Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: Dave Heil
Date: 10/4/2004 12:26 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Len Over 21 wrote:

Keep talking snarly at all those non-ham people who have actually
had an entire career in radio-electronics involved in the contstantly-
changing state of the electronics and radio arts...and succeeded.

"Talking snarly"? I didn't note any snarly at all. You may well have
succeeded in the career goals you set for yourself. Dandy. That really
has nothing to do with amateur radio.

Lennie's "success" in "professional radio" was getting by on the works
of others and not gettting sued for it.

Sounds like libel.

More a successful con-man than
"professional in radio"

73

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: (William)
Date: 10/5/2004 5:04 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: Dave Heil
Date: 10/4/2004 12:26 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Len Over 21 wrote:

Keep talking snarly at all those non-ham people who have actually
had an entire career in radio-electronics involved in the
contstantly-
changing state of the electronics and radio arts...and succeeded.

"Talking snarly"? I didn't note any snarly at all. You may well have
succeeded in the career goals you set for yourself. Dandy. That really
has nothing to do with amateur radio.

Lennie's "success" in "professional radio" was getting by on the
works
of others and not gettting sued for it.

Sounds like libel.

Only if it's not true. I have word that his "performance" was less than
expected on at least one assignment.

More a successful con-man than
"professional in radio"

I am gald you agree.

Steve, K4YZ

PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Kellie and Jimmie want "my scores from the last Field Day" as
one loaded "challenge." :-) Not all amateurs participate in
"Field Day" and no non-amateur-licensee can possibly operate
legally. An example of a NON-challenge, already-known answer
disguised as a sort-of (sort off, really) "civil discourse" question.

No non-amateur-licensee can possibly operate legally on Field Day? I'd
think you'd get one right once in a great while, Leonard. That response
would be wrong.

No, he's right, Dave.

FCC specifically defines the term "operate an amateur radio station". It means
to be the control oeprator, responsible for rules compliance. By definition,
only a licensed ham can do that. Others "participate in amateur radio". Len
cannot legally operate an amateur radio station, according to FCC. Nor can
Michael Powell, for that matter.

That's your interpetation of the rules and I consider it far too
literal James. By any normal standards the individual punching the
buttons, doing the tuning and doing the communicating or in any
combination is defined as the operator. Everywhere, not just in ham
radio. In the case of ham radio Part 97 requires that a licensed ham
has to be onsite, watching and listening if the operator does not have
a ham license.

But all that is besides the point.

THAT I agree with!


What matters most in amateur radio - or any
field of endeavor, really - is what is actually done, not what's theoretically
possible. That's the point of the story about my highschool friend who had lots
of great ideas (and lots of criticism) but no station of his own. The computer
folks have a word for it: Vaporware.

Who do you have more respect for, Dave:

The person with a modest amateur station who is actually on the air making QSOs

or

The person who talks endlessly about "state of the art", "better modes and
modulations", "the future of amateur radio", "progress", etc., etc., yet who
isn't on the ham bands at all?

Windbags.


73 de Jim, N2EY

w3rv

(Brian Kelly) wrote in message . com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Kellie and Jimmie want "my scores from the last Field Day" as
one loaded "challenge." :-) Not all amateurs participate in
"Field Day" and no non-amateur-licensee can possibly operate
legally. An example of a NON-challenge, already-known answer
disguised as a sort-of (sort off, really) "civil discourse" question.

No non-amateur-licensee can possibly operate legally on Field Day? I'd
think you'd get one right once in a great while, Leonard. That response
would be wrong.

No, he's right, Dave.

FCC specifically defines the term "operate an amateur radio station". It means
to be the control oeprator, responsible for rules compliance. By definition,
only a licensed ham can do that. Others "participate in amateur radio". Len
cannot legally operate an amateur radio station, according to FCC. Nor can
Michael Powell, for that matter.

That's your interpetation of the rules and I consider it far too
literal James.

Literal interpretation not permissible.

I.E., morse code exams at 5 wpm vice anything else (Farnsworth) at
12-15wpm.

I.E., monetary compensation for making a transmission (repeater
owners).

Oh, well. So much for literalisms.

By any normal standards the individual punching the
buttons, doing the tuning and doing the communicating or in any
combination is defined as the operator.

Such as the "attendant" at a military communications switch?

The Op at Brandywine wouldn't have time for your illigitimate
complaints.

Everywhere, not just in ham
radio.

Everywhere? Even at military switches? Oh, my!

In the case of ham radio Part 97 requires that a licensed ham
has to be onsite, watching and listening if the operator does not have
a ham license.

It gets mightly lonely at those mountaintop repeater sites.

But all that is besides the point.

THAT I agree with!

Amateur regulations are besides the point?

Be sure to send that sentiment to Riley, and sign it, "Extra."

What matters most in amateur radio - or any
field of endeavor, really - is what is actually done, not what's theoretically
possible. That's the point of the story about my highschool friend who had lots
of great ideas (and lots of criticism) but no station of his own. The computer
folks have a word for it: Vaporware.

Firmware? Software controlled radios?

Is an Icom R-70 evil vaporware?

A beat-up Budbox is wholesome hardware?

I think your prejudice is showing.

Who do you have more respect for, Dave:

The person with a modest amateur station who is actually on the air making QSOs

or

The person who talks endlessly about "state of the art", "better modes and
modulations", "the future of amateur radio", "progress", etc., etc., yet who
isn't on the ham bands at all?

Windbags.

That's all quite easy to say if that person has amateur operating
priveleges. Plenty of Windbags in amatuer radio. One is attributed
with high status if they have passed a Morse Code exam. Woo Hoo!

The person without operating priveleges may yet own the best ideas and
concepts wrt HF radio. You choose to deny him or her the opportunity
advance amateur radio. Too bad for all of us because of your
inexcusable prejudice.

Meanwhile, you bootlegged as a kid. But its all "good." You're an
Extra now.

(William) wrote in message . com...
(Brian Kelly) wrote in message . com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Kellie and Jimmie want "my scores from the last Field Day" as
one loaded "challenge." :-) Not all amateurs participate in
"Field Day" and no non-amateur-licensee can possibly operate
legally. An example of a NON-challenge, already-known answer
disguised as a sort-of (sort off, really) "civil discourse" question.

No non-amateur-licensee can possibly operate legally on Field Day? I'd
think you'd get one right once in a great while, Leonard. That response
would be wrong.

No, he's right, Dave.

FCC specifically defines the term "operate an amateur radio station". It means
to be the control oeprator, responsible for rules compliance. By definition,
only a licensed ham can do that. Others "participate in amateur radio". Len
cannot legally operate an amateur radio station, according to FCC. Nor can
Michael Powell, for that matter.

That's your interpetation of the rules and I consider it far too
literal James.

Literal interpretation not permissible.

I.E., morse code exams at 5 wpm vice anything else (Farnsworth) at
12-15wpm.

I.E., monetary compensation for making a transmission (repeater
owners).

Oh, well. So much for literalisms.

By any normal standards the individual punching the
buttons, doing the tuning and doing the communicating or in any
combination is defined as the operator.

Such as the "attendant" at a military communications switch?

The Op at Brandywine wouldn't have time for your illigitimate
complaints.

Everywhere, not just in ham
radio.

Everywhere? Even at military switches? Oh, my!

In the case of ham radio Part 97 requires that a licensed ham
has to be onsite, watching and listening if the operator does not have
a ham license.

It gets mightly lonely at those mountaintop repeater sites.

But all that is besides the point.

THAT I agree with!

Amateur regulations are besides the point?

Be sure to send that sentiment to Riley, and sign it, "Extra."

What matters most in amateur radio - or any
field of endeavor, really - is what is actually done, not what's theoretically
possible. That's the point of the story about my highschool friend who had lots
of great ideas (and lots of criticism) but no station of his own. The computer
folks have a word for it: Vaporware.

Firmware? Software controlled radios?

Is an Icom R-70 evil vaporware?

A beat-up Budbox is wholesome hardware?

I think your prejudice is showing.

Who do you have more respect for, Dave:

The person with a modest amateur station who is actually on the air making QSOs

or

The person who talks endlessly about "state of the art", "better modes and
modulations", "the future of amateur radio", "progress", etc., etc., yet who
isn't on the ham bands at all?

Windbags.

That's all quite easy to say if that person has amateur operating
priveleges. Plenty of Windbags in amatuer radio. One is attributed
with high status if they have passed a Morse Code exam. Woo Hoo!

The person without operating priveleges may yet own the best ideas and
concepts wrt HF radio. You choose to deny him or her the opportunity
advance amateur radio. Too bad for all of us because of your
inexcusable prejudice.

Meanwhile, you bootlegged as a kid. But its all "good." You're an
Extra now.


Asinine from to bottom. Do yourself a big favor Burke. GROW UP.