Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Len Over 21 wrote:

Why don't you two sweetums move this to private e-mail? Or are
you bound and determined to turn this public-access newsgroup
into a cozy little private chat room suitable only for PCTA extras?

What was it when you and "William" were doing your Charlie Chan routine?


Dave K8MN

I'm tired of trying to set the record straight, but here I go again.

I was playing Hop Sing, the cook on Bonanza. I think Len was playing
Fuji, the POW on Seven Hostile Actions, err, I mean McHale's Navy.
But you'll have to confirm that with Len.

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:

on the SGC 2020...

I hate to bust yer bubble again Sweetums but they're all over the ham
bands used mostly by the "pack radio" crowd. Nice rugged little
minimalist's xcvr but somewhat lacking in rcvr basic performance.

Awwww...not up to Kellie's mighty standards? Tsk.

You bet. Crummy rcvr. Dig up the test lab reports on it. Like this
one.

http://www.arrl.org/members-only/prodrev/pdf/pr9810.pdf

Some observations on the SG 2020....

- It's a nice little rugged 20W box. Continuous HF coverage, which may be a big
plus for those who want to do freeband or cb :-).

- It's lacking in receiver performance in a number of ways. Some of the
deficiencies are made up for by *audio* DSP, at extra cost. But it's
direct-conversion, so things like aftermarket filters don't exist.
Unwanted-sideband suppression is not up to superhet standards.

- BDR and 3rd order 2 tone IMD are way below the competition, and are *noise
limited* due to the synthesizer.

- It's not a bargain. Costs more than many ham xcvrs that perform better. The
basic unit is not too expensive but the add-ons are.

- Almost no internal accessories. (ATU, battery, filters). No noise-blanker
that I could find on the website.

- Heavy, by comparison to the competition

In almost every performance spcification, there are better performing rigs for
the same or less money. About the only place the SG 2020 really shines is that
it's in a rugged case, and puts out up to 20 W.

Are you in the tRoll opinion against the "shack on the belt crowd?"

Nope.

"Minimalist?" It does SSB very well. It includes a lot of self-
check features as standard.

I can check my own radios Sweetums, but you better stick with SGC.

It's not alone in the self-check function. How much test equipment is needed to
do a complete alignment?

Maybe you want a "top of the line contester" transceiver that not
only has all the super selectivity and sensitivity to leap tall pileups
but also keeps the logs and prints out QSLs?

Right on again Sweetums, you're finally starting to get it.

Take a spin over to the Elecraft website and see the mobile computer a ham put
together in the EC2 enclosure. ITX motherboard, tiny LCD display. Big computer
performance. Whole thing runs on 12V.

All on battery power?
:-)

Whatta a great battery-powered rig: Draws over a half amp while simply
listening to a dummy load.

That's more than double the competition's requirement. Some smaller
ultraportables draw about a tenth of that on receive!

Plus SG2020 has no provision for internal battery. There's an external pack so
you can run it on D cells.

Bring a lot of D cells.

You don't wanna think about what it draws while transmitting.

Perhaps some folks' idea of fun is hauling all those batteries around. Good
exercise ;-)

But you missed the big question: Does Len own an SG 2020? How about
accessories?

Or does he do like my old highschool friend - "borrow" others' setups, rather
than have his own?

Well no, fact is Sweetums that I have a very current tech ham radio
catapult, Miccolis and I used it to launch some Field Day antennas
just a few months ago. He has one of a different design which also
works well.

You have the deluxe model, I have the minimalist. Seen service at several
locations.

IIRC, mine has been used on at least 3 Field Days and also to put up permanent
antennas at ham QTHs. Yours is even better-traveled.

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:
In article ,

(N2EY) writes:
In article , Dave Heil

writes:
Len Over 21 wrote:
In article ,

(N2EY) writes:

(Brian Kelly) wrote in message
.com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:
(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:

All that's needed is for
him to obtain a valid amateur radio license, and an amateur radio station.

Why are you so focussed on all MUST have a ham license to
discuss anything in here?

Where did I say that?

Anyone can discuss here. I have seen no postings where somebody has told Len to
"shut up", even though he has told others to "shut the hell up".

Credibility is another issue.

You've discussed. You just have no experience in amateur radio, no
stake in amateur radio and no credibility in amateur radio. You needn't
have an amateur radio license at all. Does that clear things up for you?

I don't think Len understands.

More tsk. My choice of residence location is NOT primarily
motivated by any slavering desire to erect a radio station of
any kind.

Great. It looks like you've got your wish.

To each his own. But from descriptions and mapquest, it appears that Len's
choice was a particularly poor one for HF radio operations.

My Cincinnati home was
somewhat motivated by a desire for a good radio location. My present
home was selected in large part by a desire for a great radio location
with few neighbors. In addition, I have dark skies, a view to die for
and quiet which city and suburban dwellers don't even notice they don't
have.

Some of us notice.

Residences are HOMES, a place of living.

Avocations are part of living. Amateur radio is part of my life, and part of
the definition of "home" to me. Others may differ, of course.

Residences mean many things to many owners. My living here includes
amateur radio, guitars, computers, astronomy, reading, writing,
photography, videography. I have neighbors who do none of those things.
Their residences are for what they enjoy doing in their manner of
living.

What a concept!

I've lived ON a huge radio station long ago, one much bigger than
is possible in any residential area.

But it wasn't Len's radio station. He didn't own it, build it, or pay for it.
He and over 700 others ran it. Was their *job*.

Not my idea of living for the
rest of my life...but important back then.

Yes, it was.

Amateur radio stations are important, too.

If you want to live ON
or IN a radio station, feel free to apply for a broadcasting license
and make sure the local ordinances allow living on business
premises.

It sounds like what Len is saying is that we hams should not be allowed to have
our stations in our homes. He has made similar remarks before. I think if it
were up to Len, most of us hams would be forced off the air by a variety of
forces.

How does Len feel about anti-antenna ordinances?

I currently live in the midst of a goodly sized radio station. I didn't
need to apply for a broadcasting license. I have no business on the
site and it wouldn't matter anyway. This county has very few
restrictions or zoning laws.

I've lived "on" a radio station since 1967.

For a small part of my life the radio station complex was built
ON an old airfield. Not even the old Press Wireless station
in Palos Verdes, CA, (the one bought by a ham) was that large.

But did Len *own* it, or was he simply a resident?

I used to live on, and own, part of the Erie Canal, too.

...but one man, Don Wallace W6AM bought that 25 acre Press Wireless
site, complete with rhombics and the large building which formerly
housed the station. He used it primarily for DXing and contests.

Yup. Do you know where KH6IJ used to live?

End result is "can't fix it because the
parts cannot be had". It is probably easier to restore a 40 year old
R-390A
or 75S3 than a 20 year old R-70, if certain parts are needed.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!!!!

It's true.

Riiiiight.

Yes, it is.

Try to find a replacement for an R-390 power transformer...

Easy. Get one from a hangar queen. Lots of them out there. Not inexpensive but
anyone who deals with '390s knows that.

or anything inside that PTO...even in 1980... :-)

Wrong again, Len.

The modular construction of the R-390A permits a lot of repair to be done by
module-swapping. PTOs for those receivers are not hard to find, and most
versions can be rebuilt and recalibrated in the typical basement workshop with
a few tools and parts.

There are, in fact, numerous sources for such parts.

Yep. Also lots of information and even "professional quality" instruction
videos on how to restore them. In fact, the internet has made them *more*
available. Check out

http://www.r390A.com

for one such source, and links to many others.

btw, the R390A was produced by a number of manufacturers from 1954 to at least
1984. Although many were destroyed (because the govt.either didn't know or
didn't care about what they were worth), many survive as either working
receivers or parts sources.

Last vacuum tube receiver I DESIGNED and built was in 1964-1965.

Did you do that at work or as a "hobby" project?

HF. Wasn't for listening to on-off keyed radiotelegraphy! [horrors!]

Description? Pictures? Performance?

Terrible thing! NOT A LICENSED AMATEUR DESIGNING AND
BUILDING AN HF RADIO! Call out the radio police!

And how many HF receivers have you designed and built as a "hobby" in the
intervening ~40 years?

No license was or is required to build a receiver. In fact, no license
was or is required to build an amateur radio transmitter. You'll need
one if you want to hook it to an antenna and transmit though.

You also need one in order to sell a transmitter.

It didn't use any "recycled parts."

A pity that you had nothing useable on hand.

When I asked Len for help in designing an HF station, all he could offer was to
point me to the Digi-Key catalog. That explained a lot, actually, because it
told me that Len doesn't really know how to do home design and construction of
radios. Nor how to be creative in the use of available components rather than
just what's in the catalogs.

That's not a put-down, just a fact. While Len talks a lot of theory, and what
he did as a "professional" way back when, home construction of HF receivers,
transmitters and transceivers just isn't his thing. Look at his articles in
'ham radio' - none of them are radio construction articles.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 10/5/2004 6:28 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:
In article ,

Why are you so focussed on all MUST have a ham license to
discuss anything in here?

Where did I say that?

Lennie's typo notwithstanding, you didn't.

Just one of Lennie's SOP's (Situationally Obnoxious Posting). Keeps
reciting the same unfounded, baseless rant over and over again.

What Lennie HAS been told is that perhaps if he got an Amateur Radio
license and PARTICIPATED in Amateur Radio, he would actually understand it and
be able to discuss it from an INFORMED position.

Anyone can discuss here. I have seen no postings where somebody has told Len
to
"shut up", even though he has told others to "shut the hell up".

It's that "anger" thing he keeps accusing me and others of. "Shut the
hell up" is a very angry, antagonistic way of trying to brow-beat another.

Credibility is another issue.

Again...perhasp if he could actually discuss matters from an informed,
experienced positon...As it stands, he has zero-point-zero minutes of practical
Amateur Radio experience.

You've discussed. You just have no experience in amateur radio, no
stake in amateur radio and no credibility in amateur radio. You needn't
have an amateur radio license at all. Does that clear things up for you?

I don't think Len understands.

How can he?

He and Brain have thier respective heads up each others backsides so far
that neither can see a thing, and what they can hear is muffled and distorted.

More tsk. My choice of residence location is NOT primarily
motivated by any slavering desire to erect a radio station of
any kind.

Great. It looks like you've got your wish.

Ahhhhhh! But he CAN report to us on the VHF navaids from LAX! Oh joy!

Of course any of us with more than a month or two's experience in Amateur
Radio can attest to the fact that respectable signals can be radiated from and
received by antennas that no one can see.

Having once resided in SoCal antenna controlled neighborhoods myself I can
attest to the fact that a wire around the eaves and fed by a decent roller
tuner and worked against a good ground can work pretty well.

To each his own. But from descriptions and mapquest, it appears that Len's
choice was a particularly poor one for HF radio operations.

My Cincinnati home was
somewhat motivated by a desire for a good radio location. My present
home was selected in large part by a desire for a great radio location
with few neighbors. In addition, I have dark skies, a view to die for
and quiet which city and suburban dwellers don't even notice they don't
have.

Some of us notice.

Last vacuum tube receiver I DESIGNED and built was in 1964-1965.

Did you do that at work or as a "hobby" project?

I'm still waiting for Lennie to regale us with what RF devices our lives
can't do without that he allegedly had a hand in creating.

HF. Wasn't for listening to on-off keyed radiotelegraphy! [horrors!]

Description? Pictures? Performance?

None.

Just like his Padawamn Learner's T5 logs.

Terrible thing! NOT A LICENSED AMATEUR DESIGNING AND
BUILDING AN HF RADIO! Call out the radio police!

And how many HF receivers have you designed and built as a "hobby" in the
intervening ~40 years?

None. Last time he dared to venture a discussion on any kind of direct
participation in radio as a hobby, he had a(n) (alleged) ricebox lineup
including an ICOM R-70.

When I asked Len for help in designing an HF station, all he could offer was
to
point me to the Digi-Key catalog. That explained a lot, actually, because it
told me that Len doesn't really know how to do home design and construction
of
radios. Nor how to be creative in the use of available components rather than
just what's in the catalogs.

That's not a put-down, just a fact. While Len talks a lot of theory, and what
he did as a "professional" way back when, home construction of HF receivers,
transmitters and transceivers just isn't his thing. Look at his articles in
'ham radio' - none of them are radio construction articles.

Lennie's "contribution" to radio was getting coffee for and staying out of
the way of the REAL radio professionals as they did REAL engineering and design
work.

73

Steve, K4YZ

PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:

on the SGC 2020...

I hate to bust yer bubble again Sweetums but they're all over the ham
bands used mostly by the "pack radio" crowd. Nice rugged little
minimalist's xcvr but somewhat lacking in rcvr basic performance.

Awwww...not up to Kellie's mighty standards? Tsk.

You bet. Crummy rcvr. Dig up the test lab reports on it. Like this
one.

http://www.arrl.org/members-only/prodrev/pdf/pr9810.pdf

Some observations on the SG 2020....

- It's a nice little rugged 20W box. Continuous HF coverage, which may be a big
plus for those who want to do freeband or cb :-).

Such negativism. Besides, they're not interested in 20W radios.

Consider wx intercept, rtty wx, and hf fax.

(Brian Kelly) wrote in message . com...
(William) wrote in message . com...
(Brian Kelly) wrote in message . com...
"Phil Kane" wrote in message . net...
On 2 Oct 2004 07:00:32 -0700, William wrote:

Folks have flunked out of first-year engineering and science classes
for less than that.

I don't doubt that. No one ever flunked out of weather school for
that simple equation.

What do they flunk out of law school for?

Being a**holes and not giving proper respect to those of us who
have graduated from law school.

WAAAAAHOOOO!

How about just respecting each other as human beings?

OK: I'll follow your example - on an experimental basis.

Everyone want's to be elevated above the next person, and it is so
typical of the old guard in amateur radio who were raised on the
inventive licensing tit.

Experiment failed.

Lose the false bravado and get back to me.

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...
Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: Dave Heil
Date: 10/4/2004 12:26 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Len Over 21 wrote:

Keep talking snarly at all those non-ham people who have actually
had an entire career in radio-electronics involved in the contstantly-
changing state of the electronics and radio arts...and succeeded.

"Talking snarly"? I didn't note any snarly at all. You may well have
succeeded in the career goals you set for yourself. Dandy. That really
has nothing to do with amateur radio.

Lennie's "success" in "professional radio" was getting by on the works
of others and not gettting sued for it.

Sounds like libel.

More a successful con-man than
"professional in radio"

73

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: (William)
Date: 10/5/2004 5:04 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: Dave Heil
Date: 10/4/2004 12:26 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Len Over 21 wrote:

Keep talking snarly at all those non-ham people who have actually
had an entire career in radio-electronics involved in the
contstantly-
changing state of the electronics and radio arts...and succeeded.

"Talking snarly"? I didn't note any snarly at all. You may well have
succeeded in the career goals you set for yourself. Dandy. That really
has nothing to do with amateur radio.

Lennie's "success" in "professional radio" was getting by on the
works
of others and not gettting sued for it.

Sounds like libel.

Only if it's not true. I have word that his "performance" was less than
expected on at least one assignment.

More a successful con-man than
"professional in radio"

I am gald you agree.

Steve, K4YZ

PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:
In article ,
PAMNO
(N2EY) writes:
In article , Dave Heil

writes:
Len Over 21 wrote:
In article ,

(N2EY) writes:

(Brian Kelly) wrote in message
.com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:
(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:

All that's needed is for
him to obtain a valid amateur radio license, and an amateur radio station.

Why are you so focussed on all MUST have a ham license to
discuss anything in here?

Where did I say that?

Jim, that is a pervasive theme in RRAP, the "requirement" of having an
amateur radio license to discuss things -radio- related.

If you missed it, then you must must be necrotic. If you support it,
then you do so by your silence, as you do so many other topics on
RRAP. Schindler.

So you're either for it or agin it. Support Kelly, Heil, and Robeson?

You decide.

Time to get off of the fence.

Best of Luck.

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...
Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 10/5/2004 6:28 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:
In article ,

Why are you so focussed on all MUST have a ham license to
discuss anything in here?

Where did I say that?

Lennie's typo notwithstanding, you didn't.

Why is Jim in the dark on this one?

The other three horsemen of the apocolypse support it.

He supports it by his silence. Schindler.