WHICH Extras, Brain?
 

Hello, Steve

Whilst you folks argue on, I'm going to personally thank Mopar (a CBer, no
less) for getting me info on accessing the newsgroups in a decent fashion
after giving up my DSL account.

No one, CB, novice, technician, general, advanced, nor extra, has all of the
answers.

If we learn to live together, we might *all* learn something.

Think about it, guys. ;)

73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA


"Steve Robeson, K4CAP" wrote in message
...
(William) wrote in message
. com...
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
ink.net...
Riley is not a Extra class.

Dan/W4NTI

Quote from several Extra's on RRAP, "So what's his problem?"

Which of "several Extra's", Brain?

There's only a few of us, so it can't be TOO hard to pony up a quote.

Re-quotes from posts, please? FACTS...?!?!

Steve, K4YZ

"JAMES HAMPTON" wrote


No one, CB, novice, technician, general, advanced, nor extra, has all
of the
answers.

If we learn to live together, we might *all* learn something.



Talked to a young fella on the repeater the other day who introduced
himself by saying "my first personal is Jim and you're my first contact,
QSL?".

He seemed like a nice sort, delighted that he had just received his
shiny new call sign, and was anxious to make some new friends. Kinda
sounded like I felt when I put my new call sign on the air the first
time way back when, except probably brighter, cuz Jim is one of those
young computer jocks. Me, I still got problems with the LL scale on my
Pickett slide rule. Yep, I think Jim sounded brighter than me, quick to
catch on to things.

But I don't think Jim will be back on the repeater. Before I had a
chance to really get to know much about Jim, or even wrangle an invite
to lunch, another station, with an impressive "senior" call sign joined
the contact, flashed his shiny Radio Cop badge, and proceeded to issue
Jim a "verbal speeding ticket" for improper lingo on the radio. "Radio
Cop" said the term "personal" (and for that matter "handle") were
unwelcome in ham radio, and that Q-signals were not to be used on VHF
voice. Just generally made my newfound friend feel like an unwashed
interloper. (Gosh, I've been saying "handle" since I was a conditional
class. Slow to catch on, you know.)

Now I should point out that "Radio Cop" took pains to appear very well
meaning. Didn't use any bad words that I noticed, was quite polite, even
seemed like he was trying to be "helpful." In other words, he thought he
was doing Jim a favor by pointing out his transgression from our sacred
Amateur Radio way of doing things. I think Jim felt just the same way I
did back in a new school in third grade when the well meaning teacher
pointed out that "we don't keep our pencil behind our ear in this room."
Sure enough, I looked around and none of my new classmates had pencils
behind their ears. Sure was embarrassing, and at that moment I really
wished I was back with my good old buddies in second grade. Now, if I'd
been allowed to hang out a couple of days, I'm sure I would have learned
how to properly stow my pencil. And if Jim would have hung around a
couple of days on our repeater I just bet he would have noticed that his
lingo, perhaps learned in another radio service, was a bit out of place,
and pretty soon Jim would sound "just like the rest of us." Like I said,
he seemed pretty bright to me, quick to catch on to things.

"Radio Cop", you have kept our hobby uncorrupted. I heard Jim down
around 27 Mhz this morning, and saw his ad on eBay trying to sell his
barely used 2-meter HT. I'm gonna miss my new friend Jim, because I
think I could have learned something from him. Maybe you could have
also.

Like I said, he seemed pretty bright to me, quick to catch on to things.
But he left us. Wonder what he "caught on" to?

73, de Hans, K0HB

Subject: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: "KØHB"
Date: 10/20/2004 3:36 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id: . net

"Radio Cop", you have kept our hobby uncorrupted. I heard Jim down
around 27 Mhz this morning, and saw his ad on eBay trying to sell his
barely used 2-meter HT. I'm gonna miss my new friend Jim, because I
think I could have learned something from him. Maybe you could have
also.

Nice story, Hans.

Read one almost like it in CQ a few years ago.

Coincidence?

I don't think so.

Isn't it off season for trolling?

Steve, K4YZ

"JAMES HAMPTON" wrote in message
...
Hello, Steve

Whilst you folks argue on, I'm going to personally thank Mopar (a CBer, no
less) for getting me info on accessing the newsgroups in a decent fashion
after giving up my DSL account.

No one, CB, novice, technician, general, advanced, nor extra, has all of
the
answers.

If we learn to live together, we might *all* learn something.

Think about it, guys. ;)

73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

Amen, Jim! Thanks for the reminder. :-)

--
Vy 73 de Bert
WA2SI
FISTS #9384
QRP ARCI #11782

"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote


Nice story, Hans.


Thank you.


Read one almost like it in CQ a few years ago.

Coincidence?

I don't think so.


Naturally you'll decline to cite the issue in which you read the story
and provide proof of your slimy ill-disguised accusation of plagarism.

Coincidence?

I don't think so.

So I'll call your bluff, Steve. Cite the CQ issue which contained this
story, not written by me, and I'll send a public apology "Letter to the
Editor" to my buddy W2VU, Editor of CQ. Your move. Put up or shut up.

With warmest personal regards,

de Hans, K0HB

Subject: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: "KØHB"
Date: 10/20/2004 5:37 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id: . net

"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote


Nice story, Hans.


Thank you.


Read one almost like it in CQ a few years ago.

Coincidence?

I don't think so.


Naturally you'll decline to cite the issue in which you read the story
and provide proof of your slimy ill-disguised accusation of plagarism.

Nope...I'll dig for it.

As for "slimy"...That goes with your ill-disguised attempts to be an
upstanding human being.

Coincidence?

I don't think so.

So I'll call your bluff, Steve. Cite the CQ issue which contained this
story, not written by me, and I'll send a public apology "Letter to the
Editor" to my buddy W2VU, Editor of CQ. Your move. Put up or shut up.

Good question, Hans.

When I find it, I'll hand deliver it so I can film you eating it.

No need to send it to your "buddy", Rich. I'm not his "buddy" but I doubt
he'd be interested in pusblishing an "apology" that was a spin-off of a USENET
flame fest.

His character is a bit more robust than yours.

With warmest personal regards

What is it with you, Lennie and Brain making public statements you don't
mean...?!?!

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: (Steve Robeson K4CAP)
Date: 10/20/2004 6:00 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Subject: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: "KØHB"
Date: 10/20/2004 5:37 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id: . net

"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote


Nice story, Hans.


Thank you.


Read one almost like it in CQ a few years ago.

Coincidence?

I don't think so.


Naturally you'll decline to cite the issue in which you read the story
and provide proof of your slimy ill-disguised accusation of plagarism.

Nope...I'll dig for it.

As for "slimy"...That goes with your ill-disguised attempts to be an
upstanding human being.

Coincidence?

I don't think so.

So I'll call your bluff, Steve. Cite the CQ issue which contained this
story, not written by me, and I'll send a public apology "Letter to the
Editor" to my buddy W2VU, Editor of CQ. Your move. Put up or shut up.

fm:
to:

Dear Rich,

Some time ago a story appeared in CQ that told a story about a young,
recently licensed operator who made the mistake of using "CB" lingo on the
repeater.

The story went on to tell about a "crusty" old op that subsequently read
him the riot act on the air, causing the young op to rethink his Amateur
"career".

Can you help me locate this article?

Thanks!

Steve Robeson, LPN
Amateur Call K4YZ
Winchester, TN

"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote

fm:
to:

Dear Rich,

Some time ago a story appeared in CQ that told a story about a
young,
recently licensed operator who made the mistake of using "CB" lingo on
the
repeater.

The story went on to tell about a "crusty" old op that
subsequently read
him the riot act on the air, causing the young op to rethink his
Amateur
"career".

Can you help me locate this article?

Thanks!

Steve Robeson, LPN
Amateur Call K4YZ
Winchester, TN

fm: K0HB
to: W2VU

Hi Rich,

Just so you know what's going on......

Back in 1997 on one of the USENET newsgroups, rec.radio.amateur.policy,
I wrote the story quoted below. Today I repeated it there in response
to a related post from Jim, AA2QA, trying to promote more harmony among
the various license classes.

Another fellow there, K4YZ, has suggested I plagiarized the story from
CQ magazine, and I've called his bluff. You'll get a message from him
asking to locate the story in CQ.

73, de Hans, K0HB

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Where did Jim go?

Talked to a young fella on the repeater the other day who introduced
himself by saying "my first personal is Jim and you're my first contact,
QSL?".

He seemed like a nice sort, delighted that he had just received his
shiny new call sign, and was anxious to make some new friends. Kinda
sounded like I felt when I put my new call sign on the air the first
time way back when, except probably brighter, cuz Jim is one of those
young computer jocks. Me, I still got problems with the LL scale on my
Pickett slide rule. Yep, I think Jim sounded brighter than me, quick to
catch on to things.

But I don't think Jim will be back on the repeater. Before I had a
chance to really get to know much about Jim, or even wrangle an invite
to lunch, another station, with an impressive "senior" call sign joined
the contact, flashed his shiny Radio Cop badge, and proceeded to issue
Jim a "verbal speeding ticket" for improper lingo on the radio. "Radio
Cop" said the term "personal" (and for that matter "handle") were
unwelcome in ham radio, and that Q-signals were not to be used on VHF
voice. Just generally made my newfound friend feel like an unwashed
interloper. (Gosh, I've been saying "handle" since I was a conditional
class. Slow to catch on, you know.)

Now I should point out that "Radio Cop" took pains to appear very well
meaning. Didn't use any bad words that I noticed, was quite polite, even
seemed like he was trying to be "helpful." In other words, he thought he
was doing Jim a favor by pointing out his transgression from our sacred
Amateur Radio way of doing things. I think Jim felt just the same way I
did back in a new school in third grade when the well meaning teacher
pointed out that "we don't keep our pencil behind our ear in this room."
Sure enough, I looked around and none of my new classmates had pencils
behind their ears. Sure was embarrassing, and at that moment I really
wished I was back with my good old buddies in second grade. Now, if I'd
been allowed to hang out a couple of days, I'm sure I would have learned
how to properly stow my pencil. And if Jim would have hung around a
couple of days on our repeater I just bet he would have noticed that his
lingo, perhaps learned in another radio service, was a bit out of place,
and pretty soon Jim would sound "just like the rest of us." Like I said,
he seemed pretty bright to me, quick to catch on to things.

"Radio Cop", you have kept our hobby uncorrupted. I heard Jim down
around 27 MHz this morning, and saw his ad on eBay trying to sell his
barely used 2-meter HT. I'm gonna miss my new friend Jim, because I
think I could have learned something from him. Maybe you could have
also.

Like I said, he seemed pretty bright to me, quick to catch on to things.
But he left us. Wonder what he "caught on" to?

73, de Hans, K0HB

Glad it worked for you, Jim. Now munge that email addy before the spam
overflows your box! :P



"JAMES HAMPTON" wrote:
Hello, Steve

Whilst you folks argue on, I'm going to personally thank Mopar (a CBer,
no less) for getting me info on accessing the newsgroups in a decent
fashion after giving up my DSL account.

No one, CB, novice, technician, general, advanced, nor extra, has all of
the answers.

If we learn to live together, we might *all* learn something.

Think about it, guys. ;)

73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

"Steve Robeson, K4CAP" wrote in message
...
(William) wrote in message
. com...
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
ink.net...
Riley is not a Extra class.

Dan/W4NTI

Quote from several Extra's on RRAP, "So what's his problem?"

Which of "several Extra's", Brain?

There's only a few of us, so it can't be TOO hard to pony up a
quote.

Re-quotes from posts, please? FACTS...?!?!

Steve, K4YZ

In article , "JAMES HAMPTON"
writes:

No one, CB, novice, technician, general, advanced, nor extra, has all of the
answers.

If we learn to live together, we might *all* learn something.

I agree 100%, Jim.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Subject: These EXTRA'S, Steve::: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: (William)
Date: 10/20/2004 6:55 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message
om...
(William) wrote in message
.com...
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
link.net...
Riley is not a Extra class.

Dan/W4NTI

Quote from several Extra's on RRAP, "So what's his problem?"

Which of "several Extra's", Brain?

There's only a few of us, so it can't be TOO hard to pony up a quote.

Re-quotes from posts, please? FACTS...?!?!

Steve, K4YZ

---------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------

From: N2EY )
Subject: Excellent ARRL proposal


View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.policy
Date: 2004-01-25 12:31:04 PST


In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...

In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:
go thru to get on the air. There were neighborhood radio clubs which
didn't allow full voting memberships to Novices and Techs . . .


And in the mid-60s there were still some who did similar things. Indeed,
there
were Advanceds who looked down on Generals, Generals who looked down on
Conditionals, Conditionals who looked down on Techs, and Techs who looked
down
on Novices. Etc.

And it wasn't just kids vs. adults, either.

Yessir, It's 2004 and it's **still** out there. Guy was up late last
year for the vote on approving his membership application into The
Group (the 43rd & Kingsessing "Group" we're both familair with yes?)

You mean the one where the attendance sheet looks like the DXCC Honor Roll?

and somebody asked "what license class does he have?" His sponser:
"Uhhh . . Advanced." Then he ducked. Immediate 180dBA noise level from
the Back Benchers, "what the hell is this guy's problem?"

Well, what IS his problem?

That group is heavily focused on DX and contesting - particularly DX
contesting.
They're "a bit competitive"....

Anything less than an Extra is a big competitive disadvantage in DX
contesting.
Like not being able to work split. So why doesn't the guy get one? Even if he
only works 'phone, all he need do is pass element 4. And he's had almost 4
years.

No, wait, that's not a good reason. Those writtens are really tough. More
than
4 years ago, (Jan 19, 2000, to be exact) a certain verbose nonham here said
he
was going for Extra "right out of the box". But no ham license of any class
yet.
And this nonham says he's a "radio PROFESSIONAL"....

Maybe he should apply to The Group. I'd like to attend that meeting....

Then as now, they were few - but noisy.

Maybe it was different where you were, Dan.

It's all just cycles Dan and the 1968 maneuver was not the first cycle
by any means and welcome to the current cycle. There will be others.

Circle Game.

Dit-dit!

Still nothing from one of "us"

It STILL does not answer your suggestion about "several Extras" in RRAP
suggesting that anything less than an Extra Class is "a problem".

The story relates the telling of some club some time ago wherein some
other group of people may have acted stupidly.

You have yet to quote Brian (W3RV), Hans, Jim, the other Jim, or myself,
among others, as having said anything close to "what's his problem" over not
being an Extra class licensee.

Where's the quotes, Brain?

Steve, K4YZ

Hello, Hans

This group could learn something, but I doubt most are able.

To the group:

I was on Guam when Hans provided communications that the U.S. Navy couldn't.
Yep, ol' stupid Hans loaded up a fence and contacted KG6AAY on Guam and
communications were passed directly to ComNavMar.

So go ahead and say what you may; I know better and so does Hans.

Grow up and try and do something constructive.

73 from Rochester, NY
Jim - AA2QA

"KØHB" wrote in message
ink.net...


"JAMES HAMPTON" wrote


No one, CB, novice, technician, general, advanced, nor extra, has all
of the
answers.

If we learn to live together, we might *all* learn something.



Talked to a young fella on the repeater the other day who introduced
himself by saying "my first personal is Jim and you're my first contact,
QSL?".

He seemed like a nice sort, delighted that he had just received his
shiny new call sign, and was anxious to make some new friends. Kinda
sounded like I felt when I put my new call sign on the air the first
time way back when, except probably brighter, cuz Jim is one of those
young computer jocks. Me, I still got problems with the LL scale on my
Pickett slide rule. Yep, I think Jim sounded brighter than me, quick to
catch on to things.

But I don't think Jim will be back on the repeater. Before I had a
chance to really get to know much about Jim, or even wrangle an invite
to lunch, another station, with an impressive "senior" call sign joined
the contact, flashed his shiny Radio Cop badge, and proceeded to issue
Jim a "verbal speeding ticket" for improper lingo on the radio. "Radio
Cop" said the term "personal" (and for that matter "handle") were
unwelcome in ham radio, and that Q-signals were not to be used on VHF
voice. Just generally made my newfound friend feel like an unwashed
interloper. (Gosh, I've been saying "handle" since I was a conditional
class. Slow to catch on, you know.)

Now I should point out that "Radio Cop" took pains to appear very well
meaning. Didn't use any bad words that I noticed, was quite polite, even
seemed like he was trying to be "helpful." In other words, he thought he
was doing Jim a favor by pointing out his transgression from our sacred
Amateur Radio way of doing things. I think Jim felt just the same way I
did back in a new school in third grade when the well meaning teacher
pointed out that "we don't keep our pencil behind our ear in this room."
Sure enough, I looked around and none of my new classmates had pencils
behind their ears. Sure was embarrassing, and at that moment I really
wished I was back with my good old buddies in second grade. Now, if I'd
been allowed to hang out a couple of days, I'm sure I would have learned
how to properly stow my pencil. And if Jim would have hung around a
couple of days on our repeater I just bet he would have noticed that his
lingo, perhaps learned in another radio service, was a bit out of place,
and pretty soon Jim would sound "just like the rest of us." Like I said,
he seemed pretty bright to me, quick to catch on to things.

"Radio Cop", you have kept our hobby uncorrupted. I heard Jim down
around 27 Mhz this morning, and saw his ad on eBay trying to sell his
barely used 2-meter HT. I'm gonna miss my new friend Jim, because I
think I could have learned something from him. Maybe you could have
also.

Like I said, he seemed pretty bright to me, quick to catch on to things.
But he left us. Wonder what he "caught on" to?

73, de Hans, K0HB

Subject: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: "JAMES HAMPTON"
Date: 10/21/2004 1:21 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Hello, Hans

This group could learn something, but I doubt most are able.

To the group:

I was on Guam when Hans provided communications that the U.S. Navy couldn't.
Yep, ol' stupid Hans loaded up a fence and contacted KG6AAY on Guam and
communications were passed directly to ComNavMar.

So go ahead and say what you may; I know better and so does Hans.

Grow up and try and do something constructive.

There's a lot of "constructive" things that can be done in this world,
Jim. We all do what we can and in our own ways.

No one doubts that Hans has done many of the things he has said. Indeed,
there is much documented to prove his assertions.

However that's not MY current issue with him.

It seems Hans has a problem with anyone threatening his "authority" or
daring to take his bluffs. I wrote a very benign letter to Rich, W2VU at CQ
magazine to try and locate the article that I remembered reading.

Hans felt it necessary to give Rich a "heads up" letter that could do
nothing but induce prejudice on Rich's part in finding the item to which I
refered.

P L E A S E show me the "constructiveness" or "fairness" of Hans'
actions.

Inquiring minds, etc etc etc....

73

Steve, K4YZ

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

I wrote a very benign letter to Rich, W2VU at CQ
magazine to try and locate the article that I remembered reading.


Here's why it looks familiar:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...ews.com&output
=gplain

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...1.deja.com&out
put=gplain

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...1.deja.com&out
put=gplain

I don't read CQ with any regularity so I don't know if it's in there or not.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"My name is Jim and despite being lectured to by numerous 'radio cops' and
'newsgroup cops', I'm still a radio amateur and still online"

"KØHB" wrote in message link.net...
"JAMES HAMPTON" wrote


No one, CB, novice, technician, general, advanced, nor extra, has all
of the
answers.

If we learn to live together, we might *all* learn something.


At least one person on here ought to be living apart from the rest of
society.


Talked to a young fella on the repeater the other day who introduced
himself by saying "my first personal is Jim and you're my first contact,
QSL?".

Wow! A newbie. You don't see many of those these days.

He seemed like a nice sort, delighted that he had just received his
shiny new call sign, and was anxious to make some new friends. Kinda
sounded like I felt when I put my new call sign on the air the first
time way back when, except probably brighter, cuz Jim is one of those
young computer jocks. Me, I still got problems with the LL scale on my
Pickett slide rule. Yep, I think Jim sounded brighter than me, quick to
catch on to things.

But I don't think Jim will be back on the repeater. Before I had a
chance to really get to know much about Jim, or even wrangle an invite
to lunch, another station, with an impressive "senior" call sign joined
the contact, flashed his shiny Radio Cop badge, and proceeded to issue
Jim a "verbal speeding ticket" for improper lingo on the radio. "Radio
Cop" said the term "personal" (and for that matter "handle") were
unwelcome in ham radio, and that Q-signals were not to be used on VHF
voice. Just generally made my newfound friend feel like an unwashed
interloper. (Gosh, I've been saying "handle" since I was a conditional
class. Slow to catch on, you know.)

Now I should point out that "Radio Cop" took pains to appear very well
meaning. Didn't use any bad words that I noticed, was quite polite, even
seemed like he was trying to be "helpful."

There's at least one of those in here, too.

In other words, he thought he
was doing Jim a favor by pointing out his transgression from our sacred
Amateur Radio way of doing things. I think Jim felt just the same way I
did back in a new school in third grade when the well meaning teacher
pointed out that "we don't keep our pencil behind our ear in this room."
Sure enough, I looked around and none of my new classmates had pencils
behind their ears. Sure was embarrassing, and at that moment I really
wished I was back with my good old buddies in second grade. Now, if I'd
been allowed to hang out a couple of days, I'm sure I would have learned
how to properly stow my pencil. And if Jim would have hung around a
couple of days on our repeater I just bet he would have noticed that his
lingo, perhaps learned in another radio service, was a bit out of place,
and pretty soon Jim would sound "just like the rest of us." Like I said,
he seemed pretty bright to me, quick to catch on to things.

"Radio Cop", you have kept our hobby uncorrupted. I heard Jim down
around 27 Mhz this morning, and saw his ad on eBay trying to sell his
barely used 2-meter HT. I'm gonna miss my new friend Jim, because I
think I could have learned something from him. Maybe you could have
also.

Like I said, he seemed pretty bright to me, quick to catch on to things.
But he left us. Wonder what he "caught on" to?

73, de Hans, K0HB

Indeed. I had the opportunity to witness a new ham make a mistake on
a wide area St. Louis repeater. Radio Cop Curt/Advanced blasted him
without even trying to appear nice about it. Another ham intervened
and told Curt that his name was the first half of the word "Curteous."
Didn't phase him - he just kept going.

Subject: These EXTRA'S, Steve::: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: (William)
Date: 10/21/2004 7:01 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: These EXTRA'S, Steve::: WHICH Extras, Brain?

Yessir, It's 2004 and it's **still** out there. Guy was up late last
year for the vote on approving his membership application into The
Group (the 43rd & Kingsessing "Group" we're both familair with yes?)

You mean the one where the attendance sheet looks like the DXCC Honor
Roll?

and somebody asked "what license class does he have?" His sponser:
"Uhhh . . Advanced." Then he ducked. Immediate 180dBA noise level from
the Back Benchers, "what the hell is this guy's problem?"

Well, what IS his problem?

That group is heavily focused on DX and contesting - particularly DX
contesting.
They're "a bit competitive"....

Anything less than an Extra is a big competitive disadvantage in DX
contesting.
Like not being able to work split. So why doesn't the guy get one? Even if
he
only works 'phone, all he need do is pass element 4. And he's had almost 4
years.

No, wait, that's not a good reason. Those writtens are really tough. More
than
4 years ago, (Jan 19, 2000, to be exact) a certain verbose nonham here
said
he
was going for Extra "right out of the box". But no ham license of any
class
yet.
And this nonham says he's a "radio PROFESSIONAL"....

Maybe he should apply to The Group. I'd like to attend that meeting....

Then as now, they were few - but noisy.

Maybe it was different where you were, Dan.

It's all just cycles Dan and the 1968 maneuver was not the first cycle
by any means and welcome to the current cycle. There will be others.

Circle Game.

Dit-dit!

Still nothing from one of "us"

It STILL does not answer your suggestion about "several Extras" in
RRAP
suggesting that anything less than an Extra Class is "a problem".

The story relates the telling of some club some time ago wherein some
other group of people may have acted stupidly.

You have yet to quote Brian (W3RV), Hans, Jim, the other Jim, or
myself,
among others, as having said anything close to "what's his problem" over
not
being an Extra class licensee.

Where's the quotes, Brain?

You are blind.

If you mean the suggestion about slamming Lennie over HIS asertion that
he'd get an "Extra lite out of the box", those were HIS words, you idiot.

And in ANY case, you STILL don't make a case for your "several Extras on
RRAP" assertion.

So..............You're STILL shy of some facts here, Brain.

Try again.

Steve, K4YZ

"KØHB" wrote in message ink.net...
"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote

fm:
to:

Dear Rich,

Some time ago a story appeared in CQ that told a story about a
young,
recently licensed operator who made the mistake of using "CB" lingo on
the
repeater.

The story went on to tell about a "crusty" old op that
subsequently read
him the riot act on the air, causing the young op to rethink his
Amateur
"career".

Can you help me locate this article?

Thanks!

Steve Robeson, LPN
Amateur Call K4YZ
Winchester, TN

fm: K0HB
to: W2VU

Hi Rich,

Just so you know what's going on......(SNIP)

Received the following from Rich, W2VU:

QUOTE:

Dear Steve,

I did a search of our online database, which extends back to 1990, and
found nothing. I also checked and found nothing in CQ VHF. On the
other hand, this is unfortunately such a common experience that it
wouldn't surprise me if some variation on the theme has been published
somewhere before.

I see that you've copied K0HB on your request for information. Hans
and I have been e-mail correspondents over many years now, sometimes
agreeing on things and sometimes disagreeing. But I seem to recall
that some years back, HE wrote something along these lines - posted it
somewhere on the internet as I recall. Internet postings tend to take
on lives of their own, often traveling far beyond their original
intended audiences. Perhaps parts of his story were quoted by a
columnist for some ham magazine? Or maybe it was reprinted (with or
without his permission) in a club newsletter? You might ask Hans if
his story - if I'm remembering things correctly - was ever published
anywhere.

vy 73,
Rich W2VU
Editor, CQ

UNQUOTE

In as far as remembering that the article was from "CQ", I am
apparently wrong. My own personal "library" of "CQ" only goes back to
January 2001.

In as far as stating it was CQ, I was wrong and apologize to Hans
for that.

I have, however, sent a letter to the ARRL to inquire of them if
the story was thiers. If that too comes up empty (and assuming Hans
doesn't feel compelled to send THEM a "heads up", too...) I will
complete the apology. There WAS an story. If I remeber it from here,
then I was wrong as to it's origin and author.

Steve, K4YZ

"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote


P L E A S E show me the "constructiveness" or "fairness" of Hans'
actions.

Inquiring minds, etc etc etc....


"Constructiveness" and "fairness"???? When attacked with unfounded and
untrue suggestions of wrongdoing (in this case, plagiarism) you will
never find me "fair" or "constructive". It was my intention to bare
your lie to public view, which I seem to have done.

I note in a message which the Editor of CQ sent to you and copied me, he
says:

"Dear Steve,

I did a search of our online database, which
extends back to 1990, and found nothing.
I also checked and found nothing in CQ VHF."


But keep looking, Steve, because my offer still stands. Cite the CQ
issue which contained this story, not written by me, and I'll send a
public apology "Letter to the Editor" of CQ.

Your move.

Put up or shut up.

36, de Hans, K0HB

Subject: WHICH Plagiarism, Steve?
From: "KØHB"
Date: 10/21/2004 10:43 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id: . net


"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote


P L E A S E show me the "constructiveness" or "fairness" of Hans'
actions.

Inquiring minds, etc etc etc....


"Constructiveness" and "fairness"???? When attacked with unfounded and
untrue suggestions of wrongdoing (in this case, plagiarism) you will
never find me "fair" or "constructive". It was my intention to bare
your lie to public view, which I seem to have done.

I note in a message which the Editor of CQ sent to you and copied me, he
says:

"Dear Steve,

I did a search of our online database, which
extends back to 1990, and found nothing.
I also checked and found nothing in CQ VHF."


But keep looking, Steve, because my offer still stands. Cite the CQ
issue which contained this story, not written by me, and I'll send a
public apology "Letter to the Editor" of CQ.

Your move.

Put up or shut up.

Uh huh.

I see you've completely ignored the fact that I published that letter
already and APOLOGIZED for having for having got that attribute wrong.

And you misquoted Rich's letter.

Typical.

You truly ARE a scumbag, Hans.

I thought it was just a "summer thing".

Steve, K4YZ

"JAMES HAMPTON" wrote

Hello, Hans

This group could learn something, but I doubt most are able.


Thanks, Jim. Your plea for unity among hams of differing experience
level struck a chord with me, so I dragged out my old missive on that
subject to reinforce your point.

Unfortunately, no good deed goes unpunished!

73, Hans, ex-KG6AQI/Saipan

PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

I wrote a very benign letter to Rich, W2VU at CQ
magazine to try and locate the article that I remembered reading.


Here's why it looks familiar:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...ews.com&output
=gplain

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...1.deja.com&out
put=gplain

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...1.deja.com&out
put=gplain

I don't read CQ with any regularity so I don't know if it's in there or not.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Well there you have it!

----------------
----------------
From: N2EY )
Subject: Excellent ARRL proposal


View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.policy
Date: 2004-01-25 12:31:04 PST


In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:
go thru to get on the air. There were neighborhood radio clubs which
didn't allow full voting memberships to Novices and Techs . . .


And in the mid-60s there were still some who did similar things. Indeed, there
were Advanceds who looked down on Generals, Generals who looked down on
Conditionals, Conditionals who looked down on Techs, and Techs who looked down
on Novices. Etc.

And it wasn't just kids vs. adults, either.

Yessir, It's 2004 and it's **still** out there. Guy was up late last
year for the vote on approving his membership application into The
Group (the 43rd & Kingsessing "Group" we're both familair with yes?)

You mean the one where the attendance sheet looks like the DXCC Honor Roll?

and somebody asked "what license class does he have?" His sponser:
"Uhhh . . Advanced." Then he ducked. Immediate 180dBA noise level from
the Back Benchers, "what the hell is this guy's problem?"

Well, what IS his problem?

-----------------
-----------------

Subject: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: "KØHB"
Date: 10/21/2004 11:49 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id: . net

Unfortunately, no good deed goes unpunished!

What was YOUR last "good deed", Hans?

In THIS century, please...

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: These EXTRA'S, Steve::: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: (N2EY)
Date: 10/21/2004 12:07 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

It STILL does not answer your suggestion about "several Extras" in
RRAP
suggesting that anything less than an Extra Class is "a problem".

That's right.


The story relates the telling of some club some time ago wherein some
other group of people may have acted stupidly.

That depends on the definition of "stupid".

That's why I said "may", Jim. Nothing in what Brain cited was
inappropriate.

You have yet to quote Brian (W3RV), Hans, Jim, the other Jim, or
myself,
among others, as having said anything close to "what's his problem" over
not
being an Extra class licensee.

Let's clear this up.

The club referred to above is a special-interest amateur radio
organization, not a general-purpose club. Their focus is HF contesting
and DXing, setting up stations to do those things better, and not
much else. They don't do domestic contests or QSO parties; they focus
on the big stuff. Their members are highly competitive, and
progressive. (Example: They were among the very first to have
computers in their hamshacks).

Which would answer why the possession of an Extra MIGHT make the
difference.

In pursuit of the club goals, an Extra class license is pretty much a
necessity, because the DX is often in those subbands. That's just the
way it is.

Then that IS the difference.

So the fact that somebody without an Extra would even apply for
membership and expect to be taken as a serious DXer/contester by that
bunch indicates a problem someplace.

The "what's his problem" reaction above happened a relatively short
time ago, not the 1960s, so the code test wasn't the issue at all.

Is that an "elitist" situation? Maybe - but that club is an elite
group. Their accomplishments in their chosen field tell the tale.

Nothing like documented results to prove a point.

The emphasis, for Brain's benefit, on the word DOCUMENTED.

73

Steve, K4YZ

"Steve Robeson, K4CAP" wrote


In as far as stating it was CQ, I was wrong and apologize to Hans
for that.


Apology accepted. Thank you.

I have, however, sent a letter to the ARRL to inquire of them if
the story was thiers. If that too comes up empty (and assuming Hans
doesn't feel compelled to send THEM a "heads up", too...) I will
complete the apology. There WAS an story. If I remeber it from here,
then I was wrong as to it's origin and author.

Apology accepted in advance.

de Hans, K0HB

N2EY wrote:

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:


I wrote a very benign letter to Rich, W2VU at CQ
magazine to try and locate the article that I remembered reading.



Here's why it looks familiar:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...ews.com&output
=gplain

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...1.deja.com&out
put=gplain

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...1.deja.com&out
put=gplain

I don't read CQ with any regularity so I don't know if it's in there or not.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"My name is Jim and despite being lectured to by numerous 'radio cops' and
'newsgroup cops', I'm still a radio amateur and still online"

It is a good point you make, Jim. First time I ever used an autopatch,
a local Ham came on afterward, and let me know about some mistakes I was
making. I thanked him, and we went on our merry ways. Even now, last
weekend, when I was operating in a contest, another Ham came on and
asked if I could move "upwind a bit". I asked him if he had a pref of
how far, he told me, and I moved. We both went on our merry ways.

Later in the same contest on 20 meters, a Ham (presumably, since he
didn't ID) broke in on a QSO to chastize me for using speech compression
- which I do if I need to. I asked him if he wanted to make a QSO with
me, and he said "Hell NO, you stupid asshole!" I thanked him and noted
that it was good to see there were still gentlemen on the air, and we
both went our merry ways.

Point is that its a big world with all types, and if you are going to
allow one early experience to convince you to call it quits, then you
must have had some interest issues going on.

Lessee, a person studies the writtens, takes the time to learn Morse
code to 13wpm, takes the time and trouble and expense to take the tests.
Then in his first QSO is chastized for using "my first personal is"
instead of "My name is", so they quit?

I can only assume Hans is telling the truth, as he seems a pretty
straight shooter to me. I draw a different conclusion tho'. Mr Newbie
Ham was waaaayyy too sensitive, either from embarrassment or ego.

We cannot control how others talk. The simple attempt to control teh
behavior often reinforces the behavior.

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote


I can only assume Hans is telling the truth, as he seems a pretty
straight shooter to me. I draw a different conclusion tho'. Mr Newbie
Ham was waaaayyy too sensitive, either from embarrassment or ego.


It was a story, Mike, a fictional tale, or a fable if you wish,
obviously exaggerated, and only intended to illustrate a point.

Sheeeeesshhhhhhhhh! This is certainly a damned tough audience!

73, de Hans, K0HB

KØHB wrote:

"Mike Coslo" wrote


I can only assume Hans is telling the truth, as he seems a pretty
straight shooter to me. I draw a different conclusion tho'. Mr Newbie
Ham was waaaayyy too sensitive, either from embarrassment or ego.



It was a story, Mike, a fictional tale, or a fable if you wish,
obviously exaggerated, and only intended to illustrate a point.

Sheeeeesshhhhhhhhh! This is certainly a damned tough audience!


Okay, so what you're trying to say is "Be excellent to one another, eh?

Although in the original thread that wa dug up in teh wayback machine,
I thought you noted that you were interviewing the guy for a job?

But at any rate, it is a good little sstory and good advice to
nexperienced Hams.

- Mike KB3EIA -

-I still think the biggest problem in the US is that people drink too
darn much coffee.

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: These EXTRA'S, Steve::: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: (N2EY)
Date: 10/21/2004 12:07 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

It STILL does not answer your suggestion about "several Extras" in
RRAP
suggesting that anything less than an Extra Class is "a problem".

That's right.

The claim was that "several Extras here on rrap" said it. That's simply false.

The story relates the telling of some club some time ago wherein some
other group of people may have acted stupidly.

That depends on the definition of "stupid".

That's why I said "may", Jim. Nothing in what Brain cited was
inappropriate.

You have yet to quote Brian (W3RV), Hans, Jim, the other Jim, or
myself,
among others, as having said anything close to "what's his problem" over
not
being an Extra class licensee.

Let's clear this up.

The club referred to above is a special-interest amateur radio
organization, not a general-purpose club. Their focus is HF contesting
and DXing, setting up stations to do those things better, and not
much else. They don't do domestic contests or QSO parties; they focus
on the big stuff. Their members are highly competitive, and
progressive. (Example: They were among the very first to have
computers in their hamshacks).

Which would answer why the possession of an Extra MIGHT make the
difference.

What the back benchers were saying was: "How come this guy doesn't realize that
any serious DXer/contester who wants to join our club would get an Extra
first?"

How could anyone disagree with that?

In pursuit of the club goals, an Extra class license is pretty much a
necessity, because the DX is often in those subbands. That's just the
way it is.

Then that IS the difference.

Exactly. Having that license *does* make a difference in how well someone can
do what the club is focused on. "What's his problem", in that context, meant
"doesn't this guy understand how basic that is?"

Take contesting, for example. There are folks who think they are doing well if
they make 15 QSOs/hr in a major contest, and can keep that rate up for 12
hours. And for their setups and skills, they *are* doing well! Yet among other
folks, 30 QSOs/hr for 24 hours (twice the rate, twice as long, four times the
score or more) isn't considered "doing well" at all. All depends on your
concept of what "doing well in the contest" is.

So the fact that somebody without an Extra would even apply for
membership and expect to be taken as a serious DXer/contester by that
bunch indicates a problem someplace.

The "what's his problem" reaction above happened a relatively short
time ago, not the 1960s, so the code test wasn't the issue at all.

Is that an "elitist" situation? Maybe - but that club is an elite
group. Their accomplishments in their chosen field tell the tale.

btw, Steve, no disrespect intended, but among those folks, 115 countries isn't
a big deal. Twice that many isn't! It's just a matter of what they focus on.

To paraphrase what was written earlier: Nobody, regardless of license class,
has all the answers or knows all of it.

That doesn't mean everyone's knowledge is the same, or that everyone's opinion
is equally valid/of equal value.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Subject: These EXTRA'S, Steve::: WHICH Extras, Brain?
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 10/22/2004 5:54 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

btw, Steve, no disrespect intended, but among those folks, 115 countries
isn't
a big deal. Twice that many isn't! It's just a matter of what they focus on.

No offense taken.

I know that a lot of the "big ones" are in the bottom 25kHz, but at the
same time, a lot of them transmit in the bottom 25 and listen up. That's where
I caught a lot of them.

Although I know you can use "past" callsigns collectively to get your
DXCC, I reworked almost all of them again under K4YZ to get my DXCC. A few
were left overs from when I held my 2X1, but most were done over...just to do
it.


73

Steve, K4YZ