Lenof21 wrote:

In article .com, "bb"
writes:

Kim wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...

As a matteer of fact, I think Jim IS one of the idiots.

Nah. Prolly has a good IQ and all that, but along the way he got
mentally sidetracked on things in reality. He gots "turf disease,"
wherein hanging out daily in some group, being portentiously and
pretensiously veddy correct in everything he say makes him a
"guru"...well, at least in his own eyes. Inside, he gots a mean streak
wherever someone don't think super-highly of his opinions...which are
many and varied about nearly everything.

Why, Leonard! You seem to be writing about someone very much like YOU.

Folkses who is full o' themselves are most especially Very Important
Peoples that should never ever be harmed, lest such harm hurt their
divine, noble, righteous thoughts within.

Again, this sounds much like you.

Their country owes THEM a living and they need do nothing for it other
than act anal-retentively lawful...and superior to others not as "gifted" as
they be.

Now I'm assuming that you're still writing about Jim. Where did you
come up with the idea that he believes anything like what you've
written? After all, he works for a living.

You have to understand something of their motivations to see where they
are coming from (mostly the fantasies of their own imaginations). If you
served with the USAF in some distant land, they think that you HAD to
ask the FCC for legal counsel FIRST before operating any radio there...
and then they get ****ed at you for obeying your real orders from the
USAF instead of them. shrug

Those fine superiors in here are all, naturally, morsemen tested at high
rates code cognition before the federal government. They are superior
supermen and anything they say is the Absolute Truth. No one else
can deny that Absolute lest they be buried in a veritable avalanche of
smug superiorness of hate mail. They will LIE, cheat, maybe even
steal, but whatever they do is Terribly Correct, Righteous.
They are the PCTA extras. That should say it all.

The above reads like something written in the dayroom of a mental
hospital, Leonard. Get a grip on yourself, man!

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote:

Get a grip on yourself, man!

Let's say he DOES "get a grip on (him)self", Dave...What does
Lennie do with the other three fingers...?!?!

73

Steve, K4YZ

In article , "Kim"
writes:


Uh huh. I did ask. And, you came back with this argument initially
that--paraphrasing--were you not entitled to your opinion. You are
entitled.

Incorrect. Brian Burke was specifically talking about those in
here who belong to the "PCTA extra" persuasion and who
continually try to put those who are against the morse code test.

Those "PCTA extras" persist in claiming turf on who should
direct EVERYTHING about U.S. amateur radio - including all
federal regulations thereof - just because of tenure as an
amateur or because they feel they "own" the hobby and are
somehow "entititled" to be of the noble calling of amateurism.

PCTA extras imply they are "superior" about everything and
are busy trying to shove out the NCTAs from this newsgroup.

You are entitled to believe that the ground a military person
walks on is sacred and that no one else is "entitled" to the same benefits
from the United States as a person who has served in the military.

You are off on your own fantasy there. Brian Burke served in the
USAF, overseas. I served in the US Army, also overseas, and
specifically in radio communications. It is safe to say that we are
both proud of serving our country.

What has grown into this overlong thread is a bunch of NON-
servers who imply that they are "superior" in all respects to those
of us who served but who are not favoring any morse code test for
U.S. amateur radio licenses. Further, those same NON-servers
imply/claim that Their knowledge of the military and government
is "superior" to Brian and myself.

It gets worse when an ex-serviceman (a PCTA extra) brags of
his "seven hostile actions" yet cannot identify their where or
when, AND has NO claimed experience in any specific radio
communications, AND falsely accuses others of "dishonoring"
their military unit members. That individual has NO displayed
knowledge of military radio communications, networks, or
regulations thereof (see the specious claim that "MARS
IS amateur radio" instead of the Department of Defense).
On top of that this individual continually uses Yiddish pejoratives
as personal insults despite having no knowledge of Yiddish nor
of central European languages.

You are
entitled to believe that we don't all, in some form or other, contribute to
the integrity, continuance, and strength of the United States--some of us by
just damned getting up out of bed every morning and going to some dorky job
where a damned good portion of our income goes to supporting the military,
and the government, and the "other" people (you know...those who are not
worthy)...

Well, you claim, solely by birthright, that you are "entitled" to MORE
than those of us who spent years in the military, serving our country
the best way we could? All because you did NOT serve yourself?

That's a remarkable claim of "citizenship" which you wear. It is not
an article that I wish to put on at any time.

About the only thing that can be said about the extreme polarization
in here is that the PCTA extras must certainly believe they are so
damned "superior" in radio BECAUSE they took and passed a
civilian amateur radio morse code test. Yes, that's the ticket.
Moresemen are always "superior." They say so all the time. All
others must bow down to them. They are royalty.

But, they are still AMATEURS in radio. Try to remember that.

Even when those PCTA extras expound on socio-political issues
that don't even come close to U.S. amateur radio or its policy,
they remain superior and aloof to all NCTA.

So, yeah. I asked. And, I should have known better...

Quite true.

But, you have aligned yourself with the PCTA extra mob in here.
As a friendly suggestion, wear some armor next time and the
severity of newsgroup wounds won't cause so much apparent
psychological trauma.

In article ,
(Len Over 21) writes:

In article , "Kim"
writes:


Uh huh. I did ask. And, you came back with this argument initially
that--paraphrasing--were you not entitled to your opinion. You are
entitled.

Incorrect. Brian Burke

N0IMD

was specifically talking about those in
here who belong to the "PCTA extra" persuasion and who
continually try to put those who are against the morse code test.

"continually try to put those who are against the morse code test"? Put them
where?

Those "PCTA extras"

Who are they, Len? Specifically? Use callsigns because names aren't necessarily
unique.

persist in claiming turf on who should
direct EVERYTHING about U.S. amateur radio - including all
federal regulations thereof - just because of tenure as an
amateur or because they feel they "own" the hobby and are
somehow "entititled" to be of the noble calling of amateurism.

Where, specifically, has this been claimed? By whom?

Perhaps you and N0IMD have very thin skins...;-)

PCTA extras imply they are "superior" about everything and
are busy trying to shove out the NCTAs from this newsgroup.

Really? You're the only person here I've seen tell another to "shut the hell
up".

You imply your own superiority in all things here ;-) ;-)

You are entitled to believe that the ground a military person
walks on is sacred and that no one else is "entitled" to the same benefits
from the United States as a person who has served in the military.

You're also entitled to believe that the moon is made of cheese. Or that the
earth is flat.

Or that your lifelong avoidance of Morse Code has some relevance to amateur
radio policy.

You are off on your own fantasy there.

Naw, Len, she hit the nail really square.

Brian Burke served in the
USAF, overseas. I served in the US Army, also overseas, and
specifically in radio communications. It is safe to say that we are
both proud of serving our country.

As you should be. Others feel the same way about *their* military service, too.


But is the military the only way a citizen can serve our country? Or are there
other ways? Does it have to be "overseas"?

What has grown into this overlong thread is a bunch of NON-
servers who imply that they are "superior" in all respects to those
of us who served but who are not favoring any morse code test for
U.S. amateur radio licenses. Further, those same NON-servers
imply/claim that Their knowledge of the military and government
is "superior" to Brian and myself.

"Superior in all respects"? Who has claimed that? Where have they claimed it?

Seems to me you just take any opposition to your opinions as an insult.

It gets worse when an ex-serviceman (a PCTA extra)

Who?

brags of
his "seven hostile actions" yet cannot identify their where or
when,

N0IMD won't give any details about his /T5 operation, yet you
accept it as fact. "Leo" won't even identify himself, but you have
no qualms that his claims are valid.

Yet you question a fellow serviceman's military experience. Odd.

AND has NO claimed experience in any specific radio
communications, AND falsely accuses others of "dishonoring"
their military unit members.

Maybe he's just pulling your leg, Len. ;-)

You know, the way you "pull his leg" by calling him "nursie", "murine" and many
other names, and referring to him in the wrong gender.

That individual has NO displayed
knowledge of military radio communications, networks, or
regulations thereof (see the specious claim that "MARS
IS amateur radio" instead of the Department of Defense).

Is he entitled to that opinion, Len? Or are only opinions you agree with
allowed to exist?

On top of that this individual continually uses Yiddish pejoratives
as personal insults despite having no knowledge of Yiddish nor
of central European languages.

Perhaps he's just using sarcasm to make a point, Len ;-) ;-)

Did you know that Colin Powell is fluent in Yiddish? It's a fact.

Len, you go on and on about Morse Code and Morse Code tests even though
you have no demonstrated practical knowledge of either. ;-) ;-) ;-)

You are
entitled to believe that we don't all, in some form or other, contribute to
the integrity, continuance, and strength of the United States--some of us by
just damned getting up out of bed every morning and going to some dorky job
where a damned good portion of our income goes to supporting the military,
and the government, and the "other" people (you know...those who are not
worthy)...

Little sarcasm there, in case you missed it, Len. But Kim got it right - again.

Well, you claim, solely by birthright, that you are "entitled" to MORE
than those of us who spent years in the military, serving our country
the best way we could? All because you did NOT serve yourself?

More? Where do you get that, Len? Kim just is saying that everyone contributes.
Don't you agree?

Or don't "non-servers" count for anything at all? Perhaps you would like to
call them "unpersons".

That's a remarkable claim of "citizenship" which you wear. It is not
an article that I wish to put on at any time.

I see. You think some citizens are more equal than others. Oink, oink ;-) ;-)
;-)

W4NTI served our country in Southeast Asia. In the military, during a war. Yet
you threatened him with your "ounces of pressure" post.

K8MN served our country in Southeast Asia. In the military, during a war. He
also had a long career serving our country in the State Department. Yet you
repeatedly insult him because of his last name, denied his knowledge of State
Department communications, and have told him to "shut the hell up" in your
classic "feldwebel" post.

KH6O served our country in the Coast Guard. ( I don't know if he's still
active-duty). Yet you don't consider maritime communications on the largest
ocean of the planet to be "big time radio". He's also a teacher at the
university level. Yet you repeatedly insult him and his service, most clearly
in the your classic "sphincter" post.

There's a lot more...

About the only thing that can be said about the extreme polarization
in here is that the PCTA extras must certainly believe they are so
damned "superior" in radio BECAUSE they took and passed a
civilian amateur radio morse code test.

They're superior to you in Morse Code skill, Len. And in amateur radio
experience. The rest of the difference is a matter of opinion. I'm superior to
you in many ways. You are superior to me in some other ways (tapdancing around
the facts, for example).

Deal with it, pink boy ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

However, you've shown that no matter what military service, education,
employment or other accomplishment someone has, you'll make fun of them and
their accomplishments if they dare to disagree with you. You'll even say they
are lying about the accomplishments, without any evidence.

Of course you're not a stickler for evidence anyway, as shown by your demanding
an age limit of 14 years for amateur radio licenses, without any evidence that
the licensing of young people causes problems. And without any demonstrated
practical experience with young people ("teeners", you call them?)

So there's no point in anyone mentioning their education, military/government
service, employment, etc., around you, because you'll just insult it and say
it's inferior.

Yes, that's the ticket.
Moresemen are always "superior." They say so all the time.

"Moresemen"? You mean "Morris men"?

All
others must bow down to them. They are royalty.

Or maybe they're using sarcasm and leg-pulling on you, Len. ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

Can't you deal with a little strong opposition? ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

But, they are still AMATEURS in radio. Try to remember that.

And you're not one of them. Your Extra is still in its box.

Even when those PCTA extras expound on socio-political issues
that don't even come close to U.S. amateur radio or its policy,
they remain superior and aloof to all NCTA.

Tug, tug! ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

Here's a clue, Len: You're not the newsgroup moderator.

So, yeah. I asked. And, I should have known better...

Quite true.

But, you have aligned yourself with the PCTA extra mob in here.
As a friendly suggestion, wear some armor next time and the
severity of newsgroup wounds won't cause so much apparent
psychological trauma.

Somehow I think Kim's a bit tougher than you are, Len. ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)
;-) ;-)

Oh, btw - your buddy Mike Deignan is *against* code testing. At least that's
what he told FCC back in 1999.

On 14 Jan 2005 11:30:40 GMT, PAMNO (N2EY) wrote:

In article ,
(Len Over 21) writes:

In article , "Kim"
writes:

snip

Who are they, Len? Specifically? Use callsigns because names aren't necessarily
unique.

Such as you do with Kim's, which I see has been (as always) removed
from this thread......

People who live in glass houses..... :)

remainder of blather snipped

73, Leo

Leo wrote:
On 14 Jan 2005 11:30:40 GMT, PAMNO (N2EY) wrote:

In article ,

(Len Over 21) writes:

In article , "Kim"
writes:

snip

Who are they, Len? Specifically? Use callsigns because names aren't
necessarily
unique.

Such as you do with Kim's, which I see has been (as always) removed
from this thread......

Nope:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...c?dmode=source

People who live in glass houses..... :)

See the post above.

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:
In article ,
(Len Over 21) writes:


In article , "Kim"
writes:



Uh huh. I did ask. And, you came back with this argument initially
that--paraphrasing--were you not entitled to your opinion. You are
entitled.

Incorrect. Brian Burke


N0IMD


was specifically talking about those in
here who belong to the "PCTA extra" persuasion and who
continually try to put those who are against the morse code test.


"continually try to put those who are against the morse code test"? Put them
where?

Those "PCTA extras"


Who are they, Len? Specifically? Use callsigns because names aren't necessarily
unique.

Much easier to not put a name or face on the evil "PCTA Extras". Makes
it a lot easier to demonize them. Fact is, of the Extras in here who are
PCTA, there are a lot of different personalities, from abrasive to mild
mannered.

One cannot stereotype a spectrum easily.



persist in claiming turf on who should
direct EVERYTHING about U.S. amateur radio - including all
federal regulations thereof - just because of tenure as an
amateur or because they feel they "own" the hobby and are
somehow "entititled" to be of the noble calling of amateurism.


Where, specifically, has this been claimed? By whom?

Perhaps you and N0IMD have very thin skins...;-)

PCTA extras imply they are "superior" about everything and
are busy trying to shove out the NCTAs from this newsgroup.


Really? You're the only person here I've seen tell another to "shut the hell
up".


Let us not forget the recent offers for one poster to engage in
fornication with himself, and for another to stick something up his "I/O
port". All in response to civil posts.



You imply your own superiority in all things here ;-) ;-)


You are entitled to believe that the ground a military person
walks on is sacred and that no one else is "entitled" to the same benefits

from the United States as a person who has served in the military.


You're also entitled to believe that the moon is made of cheese. Or that the
earth is flat.

Or that your lifelong avoidance of Morse Code has some relevance to amateur
radio policy.


You are off on your own fantasy there.


Naw, Len, she hit the nail really square.


Brian Burke served in the
USAF, overseas. I served in the US Army, also overseas, and
specifically in radio communications. It is safe to say that we are
both proud of serving our country.


As you should be. Others feel the same way about *their* military service, too.


But is the military the only way a citizen can serve our country? Or are there
other ways? Does it have to be "overseas"?

There are other, direct ways of doing this.


What has grown into this overlong thread is a bunch of NON-
servers who imply that they are "superior" in all respects to those
of us who served but who are not favoring any morse code test for
U.S. amateur radio licenses. Further, those same NON-servers
imply/claim that Their knowledge of the military and government
is "superior" to Brian and myself.


"Superior in all respects"? Who has claimed that? Where have they claimed it?

Seems to me you just take any opposition to your opinions as an insult.


It gets worse when an ex-serviceman (a PCTA extra)


Who?


brags of
his "seven hostile actions" yet cannot identify their where or
when,


BTW, except in the case of a dishonorable discharge, there are no
ex-Marines. just ones who are retired or not on active duty.



N0IMD won't give any details about his /T5 operation, yet you
accept it as fact. "Leo" won't even identify himself, but you have
no qualms that his claims are valid.



Yet you question a fellow serviceman's military experience. Odd.


Depends on which side of the Morse code issue they are on. In fact,
considering the number of insults hurled at various people who have done
Military service and happen to be PCTA, I would have to conclude that
Len does *not*' show respect for military service.


AND has NO claimed experience in any specific radio
communications, AND falsely accuses others of "dishonoring"
their military unit members.


Maybe he's just pulling your leg, Len. ;-)

You know, the way you "pull his leg" by calling him "nursie", "murine" and many
other names, and referring to him in the wrong gender.


That individual has NO displayed
knowledge of military radio communications, networks, or
regulations thereof (see the specious claim that "MARS
IS amateur radio" instead of the Department of Defense).


Is he entitled to that opinion, Len? Or are only opinions you agree with
allowed to exist?

We all know that answer.


On top of that this individual continually uses Yiddish pejoratives
as personal insults despite having no knowledge of Yiddish nor
of central European languages.


Perhaps he's just using sarcasm to make a point, Len ;-) ;-)

Did you know that Colin Powell is fluent in Yiddish? It's a fact.

Len, you go on and on about Morse Code and Morse Code tests even though
you have no demonstrated practical knowledge of either. ;-) ;-) ;-)


As in all things, lack of experience makes it easier to form a strong
opinion.


You are
entitled to believe that we don't all, in some form or other, contribute to
the integrity, continuance, and strength of the United States--some of us by
just damned getting up out of bed every morning and going to some dorky job
where a damned good portion of our income goes to supporting the military,
and the government, and the "other" people (you know...those who are not
worthy)...


Little sarcasm there, in case you missed it, Len. But Kim got it right - again.

Well, you claim, solely by birthright, that you are "entitled" to MORE
than those of us who spent years in the military, serving our country
the best way we could? All because you did NOT serve yourself?


More? Where do you get that, Len? Kim just is saying that everyone contributes.
Don't you agree?

Or don't "non-servers" count for anything at all? Perhaps you would like to
call them "unpersons".

That's a remarkable claim of "citizenship" which you wear. It is not
an article that I wish to put on at any time.


I see. You think some citizens are more equal than others. Oink, oink ;-) ;-)
;-)

W4NTI served our country in Southeast Asia. In the military, during a war. Yet
you threatened him with your "ounces of pressure" post.

K8MN served our country in Southeast Asia. In the military, during a war. He
also had a long career serving our country in the State Department. Yet you
repeatedly insult him because of his last name, denied his knowledge of State
Department communications, and have told him to "shut the hell up" in your
classic "feldwebel" post.

KH6O served our country in the Coast Guard. ( I don't know if he's still
active-duty). Yet you don't consider maritime communications on the largest
ocean of the planet to be "big time radio". He's also a teacher at the
university level. Yet you repeatedly insult him and his service, most clearly
in the your classic "sphincter" post.

Speaking of the Coast Guard, I wonder how much guts it takes to go out
in one of those rollers and spend a little quality time upside down,
while trying to rescue someone. That has to be an *intense* Sphincter
pucker moment!

There's a lot more...

About the only thing that can be said about the extreme polarization
in here is that the PCTA extras must certainly believe they are so
damned "superior" in radio BECAUSE they took and passed a
civilian amateur radio morse code test.


They're superior to you in Morse Code skill, Len. And in amateur radio
experience. The rest of the difference is a matter of opinion. I'm superior to
you in many ways. You are superior to me in some other ways (tapdancing around
the facts, for example).

Deal with it, pink boy ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

However, you've shown that no matter what military service, education,
employment or other accomplishment someone has, you'll make fun of them and
their accomplishments if they dare to disagree with you. You'll even say they
are lying about the accomplishments, without any evidence.

Of course you're not a stickler for evidence anyway, as shown by your demanding
an age limit of 14 years for amateur radio licenses, without any evidence that
the licensing of young people causes problems. And without any demonstrated
practical experience with young people ("teeners", you call them?)

So there's no point in anyone mentioning their education, military/government
service, employment, etc., around you, because you'll just insult it and say
it's inferior.


Yes, that's the ticket.
Moresemen are always "superior." They say so all the time.


"Moresemen"? You mean "Morris men"?


All
others must bow down to them. They are royalty.


Or maybe they're using sarcasm and leg-pulling on you, Len. ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

Can't you deal with a little strong opposition? ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

I think we already knew that. If a person shows no ability to engage in
debate without remaining civil, then they can't handle any opposition at
all.


But, they are still AMATEURS in radio. Try to remember that.


And you're not one of them. Your Extra is still in its box.

Even when those PCTA extras expound on socio-political issues
that don't even come close to U.S. amateur radio or its policy,
they remain superior and aloof to all NCTA.


Tug, tug! ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

Here's a clue, Len: You're not the newsgroup moderator.


So, yeah. I asked. And, I should have known better...


Quite true.


But, you have aligned yourself with the PCTA extra mob in here.
As a friendly suggestion, wear some armor next time and the
severity of newsgroup wounds won't cause so much apparent
psychological trauma.


Somehow I think Kim's a bit tougher than you are, Len. ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)
;-) ;-)

psychological trauma?


Oh, btw - your buddy Mike Deignan is *against* code testing. At least that's
what he told FCC back in 1999.



- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:
N2EY wrote:
In article ,

(Len Over 21) writes:

In article , "Kim"
writes:

Uh huh. I did ask. And, you came back with this argument
initially
that--paraphrasing--were you not entitled to your opinion. You
are
entitled.
Incorrect. Brian Burke

N0IMD

was specifically talking about those in
here who belong to the "PCTA extra" persuasion and who
continually try to put those who are against the morse code test.

"continually try to put those who are against the morse code test"?
Put them
where?

Those "PCTA extras"

Who are they, Len? Specifically? Use callsigns because names aren't
necessarily
unique.

Much easier to not put a name or face on the evil "PCTA Extras".
Makes
it a lot easier to demonize them.

Very true, Mike.

But I think Len just doesn't like to use our callsigns.

Fact is, of the Extras in here who are
PCTA, there are a lot of different personalities, from abrasive to
mild
mannered.

Same goes for NCTAs.

For example, I've had many detailed discussions with K2UNK, yet there's
never a harsh word, even though we're poles apart on most amateur radio
policy issues. Heck, K2UNK is a *director* of NCI!

One cannot stereotype a spectrum easily.

That's why Len denies there is a spectrum. All are blamed for what
someone
supposedly did decades ago.

persist in claiming turf on who should
direct EVERYTHING about U.S. amateur radio - including all
federal regulations thereof - just because of tenure as an
amateur or because they feel they "own" the hobby and are
somehow "entititled" to be of the noble calling of amateurism.

Where, specifically, has this been claimed? By whom?

Perhaps you and N0IMD have very thin skins...;-)

PCTA extras imply they are "superior" about everything and
are busy trying to shove out the NCTAs from this newsgroup.

Really? You're the only person here I've seen tell another to "shut
the hell
up".

Let us not forget the recent offers for one poster to engage in
fornication with himself,

That was me. And it wasn't an offer, it was a command. ;-)

and for another to stick something up his "I/O
port". All in response to civil posts.

For Len, "civil" equals "agrees with Len". All else is uncivil.

You imply your own superiority in all things here ;-) ;-)

You are entitled to believe that the ground a military person
walks on is sacred and that no one else is "entitled" to the same
benefits
from the United States as a person who has served in the military.

You're also entitled to believe that the moon is made of cheese. Or
that the
earth is flat.

Or that your lifelong avoidance of Morse Code has some relevance to
amateur
radio policy.

You are off on your own fantasy there.

Naw, Len, she hit the nail really square.

Brian Burke served in the
USAF, overseas. I served in the US Army, also overseas, and
specifically in radio communications. It is safe to say that we
are
both proud of serving our country.

As you should be. Others feel the same way about *their* military
service, too.

But is the military the only way a citizen can serve our country?
Or are there
other ways? Does it have to be "overseas"?

There are other, direct ways of doing this.

What about indirect ways?

What has grown into this overlong thread is a bunch of NON-
servers who imply that they are "superior" in all respects to
those
of us who served but who are not favoring any morse code test for
U.S. amateur radio licenses. Further, those same NON-servers
imply/claim that Their knowledge of the military and government
is "superior" to Brian and myself.

"Superior in all respects"? Who has claimed that? Where have they
claimed it?

Seems to me you just take any opposition to your opinions as an
insult.

It gets worse when an ex-serviceman (a PCTA extra)

Who?

brags of
his "seven hostile actions" yet cannot identify their where or
when,

BTW, except in the case of a dishonorable discharge, there are no
ex-Marines. just ones who are retired or not on active duty.

I've heard that.

N0IMD won't give any details about his /T5 operation, yet you
accept it as fact. "Leo" won't even identify himself, but you have
no qualms that his claims are valid.

Yet you question a fellow serviceman's military experience. Odd.

Depends on which side of the Morse code issue they are on.

Exactly. Like education, employment, and other accomplishments, they
drop out of the equation.

In fact,
considering the number of insults hurled at various people who have
done
Military service and happen to be PCTA, I would have to conclude that

Len does *not*' show respect for military service.

Unless the person is NCTA. And sometimes not even then.

AND has NO claimed experience in any specific radio
communications,

This is not true. The person being described here, if it's K4YZ,
has lots of "claimed experience in specific radio communications".
For example, I've worked him on 40 meters.

AND falsely accuses others of "dishonoring"
their military unit members.

Maybe he's just pulling your leg, Len. ;-)

You know, the way you "pull his leg" by calling him "nursie",
"murine" and many
other names, and referring to him in the wrong gender.

That individual has NO displayed
knowledge of military radio communications, networks, or
regulations thereof (see the specious claim that "MARS
IS amateur radio" instead of the Department of Defense).

Is he entitled to that opinion, Len? Or are only opinions you agree
with
allowed to exist?

We all know that answer.

Will Len answer that simple question with a direct answer?

On top of that this individual continually uses Yiddish
pejoratives
as personal insults despite having no knowledge of Yiddish nor
of central European languages.

Perhaps he's just using sarcasm to make a point, Len ;-) ;-)

Did you know that Colin Powell is fluent in Yiddish? It's a fact.

Len, you go on and on about Morse Code and Morse Code tests even
though
you have no demonstrated practical knowledge of either. ;-) ;-) ;-)

As in all things, lack of experience makes it easier to form a strong

opinion.

Like whether people under 14 are capable of being responsible amateur
radio
operators.

You are
entitled to believe that we don't all, in some form or other,
contribute to
the integrity, continuance, and strength of the United
States--some of us by
just damned getting up out of bed every morning and going to some
dorky job
where a damned good portion of our income goes to supporting the
military,
and the government, and the "other" people (you know...those who
are not
worthy)...

Little sarcasm there, in case you missed it, Len. But Kim got it
right - again.

Well, you claim, solely by birthright, that you are "entitled" to
MORE
than those of us who spent years in the military, serving our
country
the best way we could? All because you did NOT serve yourself?

More? Where do you get that, Len? Kim just is saying that everyone
contributes.
Don't you agree?

Or don't "non-servers" count for anything at all? Perhaps you would
like to
call them "unpersons".

That's a remarkable claim of "citizenship" which you wear. It is
not
an article that I wish to put on at any time.

I see. You think some citizens are more equal than others. Oink,
oink ;-) ;-)
;-)

W4NTI served our country in Southeast Asia. In the military, during
a war. Yet
you threatened him with your "ounces of pressure" post.

K8MN served our country in Southeast Asia. In the military, during
a war. He
also had a long career serving our country in the State Department.
Yet you
repeatedly insult him because of his last name, denied his
knowledge of State
Department communications, and have told him to "shut the hell up"
in your
classic "feldwebel" post.

Of the people named in this post, K8MN has probably the most experience
in military and government service. Yet Len shows no respect for him.

I recall a series of postings some years back where K8MN described
using Morse Code to "synchronize" (as in coordinate) RTTY operations
for the State Department - as a State Department staffer. Len simply
refused to accept that such things were done in the time frame K8MN
describes. Never mind that K8MN was there and Len wasn't.

KH6O served our country in the Coast Guard. ( I don't know if he's
still
active-duty). Yet you don't consider maritime communications on the
largest
ocean of the planet to be "big time radio". He's also a teacher at
the
university level. Yet you repeatedly insult him and his service,
most clearly
in the your classic "sphincter" post.

Speaking of the Coast Guard, I wonder how much guts it takes to go
out
in one of those rollers and spend a little quality time upside down,
while trying to rescue someone. That has to be an *intense* Sphincter

pucker moment!

One of my favorite images of the USCG shows a stormy coastline in the
Pacific Northwest. Vessels of all descriptions are heading for the
harbor as fast as they can - except for the USCG ones, which are headed
out into the storm the others are fleeing.

Kinda says it all.

Mike, if you haven't read KH6O's writings about his experiences, do a
search and have yourself a treat.

There's a lot more...

About the only thing that can be said about the extreme
polarization
in here is that the PCTA extras must certainly believe they are
so
damned "superior" in radio BECAUSE they took and passed a
civilian amateur radio morse code test.

They're superior to you in Morse Code skill, Len. And in amateur
radio
experience. The rest of the difference is a matter of opinion. I'm
superior to
you in many ways. You are superior to me in some other ways
(tapdancing around
the facts, for example).

Deal with it, pink boy ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

However, you've shown that no matter what military service,
education,
employment or other accomplishment someone has, you'll make fun of
them and
their accomplishments if they dare to disagree with you. You'll
even say they
are lying about the accomplishments, without any evidence.

Of course you're not a stickler for evidence anyway, as shown by
your demanding
an age limit of 14 years for amateur radio licenses, without any
evidence that
the licensing of young people causes problems. And without any
demonstrated
practical experience with young people ("teeners", you call them?)

So there's no point in anyone mentioning their education,
military/government
service, employment, etc., around you, because you'll just insult
it and say
it's inferior.

Yes, that's the ticket.
Moresemen are always "superior." They say so all the time.

"Moresemen"? You mean "Morris men"?

All
others must bow down to them. They are royalty.

Or maybe they're using sarcasm and leg-pulling on you, Len. ;-) ;-)
;-) ;-)

Can't you deal with a little strong opposition? ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

I think we already knew that. If a person shows no ability to engage
in
debate without remaining civil, then they can't handle any opposition
at
all.

Actually, Len doesn't even try to engage in debate here. That's why I
don't take him seriously.

But, they are still AMATEURS in radio. Try to remember that.

And you're not one of them. Your Extra is still in its box.

Even when those PCTA extras expound on socio-political issues
that don't even come close to U.S. amateur radio or its policy,
they remain superior and aloof to all NCTA.

Tug, tug! ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

Here's a clue, Len: You're not the newsgroup moderator.

So, yeah. I asked. And, I should have known better...

Quite true.

But, you have aligned yourself with the PCTA extra mob in here.
As a friendly suggestion, wear some armor next time and the
severity of newsgroup wounds won't cause so much apparent
psychological trauma.

Somehow I think Kim's a bit tougher than you are, Len. ;-) ;-) ;-)
;-) ;-) ;-)
;-) ;-)

psychological trauma?

I guess Len is traumatized whenever someone disagrees with him....;0 ;0


Oh, btw - your buddy Mike Deignan is *against* code testing. At
least that's
what he told FCC back in 1999.

73 de Jim, N2EY

On 14 Jan 2005 04:53:33 -0800, wrote:


Leo wrote:
On 14 Jan 2005 11:30:40 GMT, PAMNO (N2EY) wrote:

In article ,

(Len Over 21) writes:

In article , "Kim"
writes:

snip

Who are they, Len? Specifically? Use callsigns because names aren't
necessarily
unique.

Such as you do with Kim's, which I see has been (as always) removed
from this thread......

Nope:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...c?dmode=source

People who live in glass houses..... :)

See the post above.

My apologies - you are correct, it's there!

73 de Jim, N2EY

73, Leo

Leo wrote:
On 14 Jan 2005 04:53:33 -0800, wrote:


Leo wrote:
On 14 Jan 2005 11:30:40 GMT, PAMNO (N2EY) wrote:

In article ,

(Len Over 21) writes:

In article ,
"Kim"
writes:

snip

Who are they, Len? Specifically? Use callsigns because names
aren't
necessarily
unique.

Such as you do with Kim's, which I see has been (as always)
removed
from this thread......

Nope:


http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...c?dmode=source

People who live in glass houses..... :)

See the post above.

My apologies - you are correct, it's there!

Spoken like a gentleman, sir!

No problem, Leo. Kim's call appears only once or twice in that long
post. Easy to miss.
73 de Jim, N2EY



73 de Jim, N2EY

73, Leo

Mike Coslo wrote:

N2EY wrote:
In article ,

Speaking of the Coast Guard, I wonder how much guts it takes to go out
in one of those rollers and spend a little quality time upside down,
while trying to rescue someone. That has to be an *intense* Sphincter
pucker moment!

It has to be much more intense than the sphincter-tightening moment
which comes about as a result of artillery shelling one didn't
experience (see the classic "sphincter post" by Len Anderson). :-)

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:

N2EY wrote:
In article ,


Speaking of the Coast Guard, I wonder how much guts it
takes to go out
in one of those rollers and spend a little quality time upside
down,
while trying to rescue someone. That has to be an *intense*
Sphincter
pucker moment!

It has to be much more intense than the sphincter-tightening moment
which comes about as a result of artillery shelling one didn't
experience (see the classic "sphincter post" by Len Anderson).

Ahhhhyes! And there's always his posts about being under the
threat of the Tu-95...And let's not forget his 2.2 million messages he
sigle handedly passed!

73

Steve, K4YZ

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:

N2EY wrote:

In article ,



(Len Over 21) writes:

In article , "Kim"
writes:

Uh huh. I did ask. And, you came back with this argument
initially
that--paraphrasing--were you not entitled to your opinion. You
are entitled.

Incorrect. Brian Burke

N0IMD

was specifically talking about those in
here who belong to the "PCTA extra" persuasion and who
continually try to put those who are against the morse code test.

"continually try to put those who are against the morse code test"?
Put them where?

Ever notice how Len avoids direct questions?

Those "PCTA extras"

Who are they, Len? Specifically? Use callsigns because names aren't
necessarily unique.

Much easier to not put a name or face on the evil "PCTA Extras".
Makes it a lot easier to demonize them.

Very true, Mike.

But I think Len just doesn't like to use our callsigns.

Because I'm a PCTA Extra,(KB3EIA) and so are you,(N2EY) and so is
Dave,(K8MN) and Steve,(K4YZ) and Dan (W4NTI).

And Brian, W3RV. Plus many others, some departed.

Now if THAT isn't a diverse group, I don't know what is. TRying to put
us all in one "Olde tyme Hammes" group is doomed to failure.

Nonetheless, Len tries to.

Fact is, of the Extras in here who are
PCTA, there are a lot of different personalities, from abrasive to
mild mannered.

Same goes for NCTAs.

For example, I've had many detailed discussions with K2UNK, yet there's
never a harsh word, even though we're poles apart on most amateur radio
policy issues. Heck, K2UNK is a *director* of NCI!

Yes, same here, although I believe I got him pretty irratated a few
times. THat's okay, because I'm an irratating person some times! 8^)

Yet even when irritated, I cannot recall K2UNK ever calling people names or
turning a difference of opinion into a personal attack. The closest thing to it
was when we were discussing highway speed limits and Bill referred to "safety
Nazis" as one source of the 55 mph rule. And IIRC he apologized for that,
later.

One cannot stereotype a spectrum easily.

That's why Len denies there is a spectrum. All are blamed for what
someone supposedly did decades ago.

Perhaps there was some sort of prenatal terror induced by a Ham?

Could be. Len appears to have been bested in a debate by KH2D, and so now takes
out his vengenance on all who resemble KH2D in any way that's significant to
Len.

persist in claiming turf on who should
direct EVERYTHING about U.S. amateur radio - including all
federal regulations thereof - just because of tenure as an
amateur or because they feel they "own" the hobby and are
somehow "entititled" to be of the noble calling of amateurism.

Where, specifically, has this been claimed? By whom?

Perhaps you and N0IMD have very thin skins...;-)

PCTA extras imply they are "superior" about everything and
are busy trying to shove out the NCTAs from this newsgroup.

Really? You're the only person here I've seen tell another to "shut
the hell up".

Let us not forget the recent offers for one poster to engage in
fornication with himself,

That was me. And it wasn't an offer, it was a command. ;-)

Isn't it okay to refuse an immoral command?? hehe ;^)

How would I know? I'm supposedly a "nonserver", remember?

and for another to stick something up his "I/O
port". All in response to civil posts.

For Len, "civil" equals "agrees with Len". All else is uncivil.

Let us not forget the post where Len made fun of a Coast Guard
radio operator (the classic "sphincter post").

Also, there's the classic where Len talksed about W4NTI "filling the sight
target" and how it would only take "ounces of pressure"...

My lack of civility must be distressing indeed.

?? You're arguably the most civil poster here, Mike.

You imply your own superiority in all things here ;-) ;-)

You are entitled to believe that the ground a military person
walks on is sacred and that no one else is "entitled" to the same
benefits
from the United States as a person who has served in the military.

You're also entitled to believe that the moon is made of cheese. Or
that the earth is flat.

Or that your lifelong avoidance of Morse Code has some relevance to
amateur radio policy.

You are off on your own fantasy there.

Naw, Len, she hit the nail really square.

Kim and I disagree on many things. But every so often she really nails
one point or another. Like the one above.

Brian Burke served in the
USAF, overseas. I served in the US Army, also overseas, and
specifically in radio communications. It is safe to say that we
are both proud of serving our country.

As you should be. Others feel the same way about *their* military
service, too.

But is the military the only way a citizen can serve our country?

Or are there other ways? Does it have to be "overseas"?

There are other, direct ways of doing this.

What about indirect ways?

Sure, but I'm surprised that these good folk can't figure out other
direct ways that are not specifically serving in the military.

To do so would be to admit that someone like me is right about something.

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


wrote:


Mike Coslo wrote:


N2EY wrote:


In article ,




(Len Over 21) writes:



In article , "Kim"
writes:



Uh huh. I did ask. And, you came back with this argument
initially
that--paraphrasing--were you not entitled to your opinion. You
are entitled.


Incorrect. Brian Burke



N0IMD


was specifically talking about those in
here who belong to the "PCTA extra" persuasion and who
continually try to put those who are against the morse code test.



"continually try to put those who are against the morse code test"?
Put them where?


Ever notice how Len avoids direct questions?


Those "PCTA extras"



Who are they, Len? Specifically? Use callsigns because names aren't
necessarily unique.


Much easier to not put a name or face on the evil "PCTA Extras".
Makes it a lot easier to demonize them.


Very true, Mike.



But I think Len just doesn't like to use our callsigns.


Because I'm a PCTA Extra,(KB3EIA) and so are you,(N2EY) and so is
Dave,(K8MN) and Steve,(K4YZ) and Dan (W4NTI).


And Brian, W3RV. Plus many others, some departed.

Oh yes, and each addition makes it harder to group us as one "type".


Now if THAT isn't a diverse group, I don't know what is. TRying to put
us all in one "Olde tyme Hammes" group is doomed to failure.


Nonetheless, Len tries to.


Fact is, of the Extras in here who are
PCTA, there are a lot of different personalities, from abrasive to
mild mannered.


Same goes for NCTAs.


For example, I've had many detailed discussions with K2UNK, yet there's
never a harsh word, even though we're poles apart on most amateur radio
policy issues. Heck, K2UNK is a *director* of NCI!


Yes, same here, although I believe I got him pretty irratated a few
times. THat's okay, because I'm an irratating person some times! 8^)


Yet even when irritated, I cannot recall K2UNK ever calling people names or
turning a difference of opinion into a personal attack. The closest thing to it
was when we were discussing highway speed limits and Bill referred to "safety
Nazis" as one source of the 55 mph rule. And IIRC he apologized for that,
later.


One cannot stereotype a spectrum easily.



That's why Len denies there is a spectrum. All are blamed for what
someone supposedly did decades ago.


Perhaps there was some sort of prenatal terror induced by a Ham?


Could be. Len appears to have been bested in a debate by KH2D, and so now takes
out his vengenance on all who resemble KH2D in any way that's significant to
Len.


persist in claiming turf on who should
direct EVERYTHING about U.S. amateur radio - including all
federal regulations thereof - just because of tenure as an
amateur or because they feel they "own" the hobby and are
somehow "entititled" to be of the noble calling of amateurism.



Where, specifically, has this been claimed? By whom?



Perhaps you and N0IMD have very thin skins...;-)



PCTA extras imply they are "superior" about everything and
are busy trying to shove out the NCTAs from this newsgroup.


Really? You're the only person here I've seen tell another to "shut
the hell up".



Let us not forget the recent offers for one poster to engage in
fornication with himself,



That was me. And it wasn't an offer, it was a command. ;-)


Isn't it okay to refuse an immoral command?? hehe ;^)


How would I know? I'm supposedly a "nonserver", remember?


and for another to stick something up his "I/O
port". All in response to civil posts.



For Len, "civil" equals "agrees with Len". All else is uncivil.


Let us not forget the post where Len made fun of a Coast Guard
radio operator (the classic "sphincter post").

Also, there's the classic where Len talksed about W4NTI "filling the sight
target" and how it would only take "ounces of pressure"...


My lack of civility must be distressing indeed.


?? You're arguably the most civil poster here, Mike.

And occasionally, that can be incredibly irritating to some people! ;^)


You imply your own superiority in all things here ;-) ;-)


You are entitled to believe that the ground a military person
walks on is sacred and that no one else is "entitled" to the same
benefits

from the United States as a person who has served in the military.


You're also entitled to believe that the moon is made of cheese. Or
that the earth is flat.


Or that your lifelong avoidance of Morse Code has some relevance to
amateur radio policy.


You are off on your own fantasy there.


Naw, Len, she hit the nail really square.


Kim and I disagree on many things. But every so often she really nails
one point or another. Like the one above.

Of course she is correct in this case. The "service" argument is too
often thrown out as a way to stifle discussion. No one wants to look
like they don't support our servicemen and women, so more often than
not, the person just shuts up rather than risk the "unpatriotic" moniker
about to be thrust on them.


Brian Burke served in the
USAF, overseas. I served in the US Army, also overseas, and
specifically in radio communications. It is safe to say that we
are both proud of serving our country.



As you should be. Others feel the same way about *their* military
service, too.


But is the military the only way a citizen can serve our country?



Or are there other ways? Does it have to be "overseas"?


There are other, direct ways of doing this.


What about indirect ways?


Sure, but I'm surprised that these good folk can't figure out other
direct ways that are not specifically serving in the military.

To do so would be to admit that someone like me is right about something.

Ahh, but you are.

- Mike KB3EIA -

N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:

N2EY wrote:

In article ,



(Len Over 21) writes:

In article ,
"Kim"
writes:

Uh huh. I did ask. And, you came back with this argument
initially
that--paraphrasing--were you not entitled to your opinion. You
are entitled.

Incorrect. Brian Burke

N0IMD

was specifically talking about those in
here who belong to the "PCTA extra" persuasion and who
continually try to put those who are against the morse code
test.

"continually try to put those who are against the morse code
test"?
Put them where?

Ever notice how Len avoids direct questions?
Ever notice how Miccolis does?

I do every day.

In article .com, "bb"
writes:

N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:

N2EY wrote:

In article ,



(Len Over 21) writes:

In article ,
"Kim"
writes:

Uh huh. I did ask. And, you came back with this argument
initially
that--paraphrasing--were you not entitled to your opinion. You
are entitled.

Incorrect. Brian Burke

N0IMD

was specifically talking about those in
here who belong to the "PCTA extra" persuasion and who
continually try to put those who are against the morse code
test.

"continually try to put those who are against the morse code
test"?
Put them where?

Ever notice how Len avoids direct questions?

Ever notice how Miccolis does?

I do every day.

Careful, Brian...remember that J.P. "serves his country" (by being
a super-special amateur morseman).

If you say nasty to him or Coslo, you will be accused of TRYING
TO DESTROY HAM RADIO!!!! :-)

Heh. All their expertise and "radio operator skills" go in the toilet
when trying to defend the need for morse code testing. They
resort to defamation/denigration/disassembly of those wanting to
eliminate the morse code test, all on the person but not the
subject. QED.



Posted on 16 Jan 05

Lenof21 wrote:

Heh. All their expertise and "radio operator skills" go in the
toilet
when trying to defend the need for morse code testing. They
resort to defamation/denigration/disassembly of those wanting to
eliminate the morse code test, all on the person but not the
subject. QED.

So far, all of the "defamation" comes from YOU, Lennie...YOU
provide all of the "fuel" for that fire!

So, Mr Professional Radio Engineer...tell us all about the
legalities of operating past the expiration date of the license...You
STILL ahve not acknowledged your error or retracted it. What's your
problem?

Steve, K4YZ

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:

N2EY wrote:

In article ,


(Len Over 21) writes:

In article , "Kim"
writes:

Uh huh. I did ask. And, you came back with this argument
initially
that--paraphrasing--were you not entitled to your opinion. You
are entitled.

Incorrect. Brian Burke

N0IMD

was specifically talking about those in
here who belong to the "PCTA extra" persuasion and who
continually try to put those who are against the morse code test.

"continually try to put those who are against the morse code test"?
Put them where?

Ever notice how Len avoids direct questions?

N0IMD does too. But he demands that others answer his questions.

Doesn't work that way.

Those "PCTA extras"

Who are they, Len? Specifically? Use callsigns because names aren't
necessarily unique.

Much easier to not put a name or face on the evil "PCTA Extras".
Makes it a lot easier to demonize them.

Very true, Mike.

But I think Len just doesn't like to use our callsigns.

Because I'm a PCTA Extra,(KB3EIA) and so are you,(N2EY) and so is
Dave,(K8MN) and Steve,(K4YZ) and Dan (W4NTI).

And Brian, W3RV. Plus many others, some departed.

Oh yes, and each addition makes it harder to group us as one "type".

(moment of silence for N0BK and W0EX)

Let us also recall that Cecil, W5DXP/W6RCA, was an ardent nocodetest Advanced
here for years. Then, after the 2000 restructuring, he got his
Extra, stopped posting here - and IIRC, renounced his NCI membership
and stated that keeping Element 1 was the right thing to do.

Now if THAT isn't a diverse group, I don't know what is. TRying to put
us all in one "Olde tyme Hammes" group is doomed to failure.

Nonetheless, Len tries to.

Fact is, of the Extras in here who are
PCTA, there are a lot of different personalities, from abrasive to
mild mannered.

Same goes for NCTAs.

For example, I've had many detailed discussions with K2UNK, yet there's
never a harsh word, even though we're poles apart on most amateur radio
policy issues. Heck, K2UNK is a *director* of NCI!

Yes, same here, although I believe I got him pretty irratated a few
times. THat's okay, because I'm an irratating person some times! 8^)

Yet even when irritated, I cannot recall K2UNK ever calling people names or
turning a difference of opinion into a personal attack. The closest thing
to it
was when we were discussing highway speed limits and Bill referred to
"safety
Nazis" as one source of the 55 mph rule. And IIRC he apologized for that,
later.

OTOH, all you have to do is disagree with Len and he'll go berserk...;-)

One cannot stereotype a spectrum easily.

That's why Len denies there is a spectrum. All are blamed for what
someone supposedly did decades ago.

Perhaps there was some sort of prenatal terror induced by a Ham?

Could be. Len appears to have been bested in a debate by KH2D, and so now
takes
out his vengenance on all who resemble KH2D in any way that's significant
to Len.

persist in claiming turf on who should
direct EVERYTHING about U.S. amateur radio - including all
federal regulations thereof - just because of tenure as an
amateur or because they feel they "own" the hobby and are
somehow "entititled" to be of the noble calling of amateurism.

Where, specifically, has this been claimed? By whom?

Perhaps you and N0IMD have very thin skins...;-)

PCTA extras imply they are "superior" about everything and
are busy trying to shove out the NCTAs from this newsgroup.

Really? You're the only person here I've seen tell another to "shut
the hell up".

Let us not forget the recent offers for one poster to engage in
fornication with himself,

That was me. And it wasn't an offer, it was a command. ;-)

Isn't it okay to refuse an immoral command?? hehe ;^)

How would I know? I'm supposedly a "nonserver", remember?

and for another to stick something up his "I/O
port". All in response to civil posts.

For Len, "civil" equals "agrees with Len". All else is uncivil.

Let us not forget the post where Len made fun of a Coast Guard
radio operator (the classic "sphincter post").

Also, there's the classic where Len talksed about W4NTI "filling the sight
target" and how it would only take "ounces of pressure"...

My lack of civility must be distressing indeed.

?? You're arguably the most civil poster here, Mike.

And occasionally, that can be incredibly irritating to some people! ;^)

I have seen that in action.

You imply your own superiority in all things here ;-) ;-)

You are entitled to believe that the ground a military person
walks on is sacred and that no one else is "entitled" to the same
benefits
from the United States as a person who has served in the military.

You're also entitled to believe that the moon is made of cheese. Or
that the earth is flat.

Or that your lifelong avoidance of Morse Code has some relevance to
amateur radio policy.

You are off on your own fantasy there.

Naw, Len, she hit the nail really square.

Kim and I disagree on many things. But every so often she really nails
one point or another. Like the one above.

Of course she is correct in this case. The "service" argument is too
often thrown out as a way to stifle discussion. No one wants to look
like they don't support our servicemen and women, so more often than
not, the person just shuts up rather than risk the "unpatriotic" moniker
about to be thrust on them.

Indeed. As if supporting our troops means the military and the administration
can do no wrong.

Brian Burke served in the
USAF, overseas. I served in the US Army, also overseas, and
specifically in radio communications. It is safe to say that we
are both proud of serving our country.

As you should be. Others feel the same way about *their* military
service, too.

Like in the USCG

But is the military the only way a citizen can serve our country?

Or are there other ways? Does it have to be "overseas"?

There are other, direct ways of doing this.

What about indirect ways?

Sure, but I'm surprised that these good folk can't figure out other
direct ways that are not specifically serving in the military.

To do so would be to admit that someone like me is right about something.

Ahh, but you are.


73 de Jim, N2EY

In article ,
(Lenof21) writes:

Ever notice how Len avoids direct questions?

Ever notice how Miccolis does?

I do every day.

Yes, Brian and Len do avoid direct questions - every day.

Careful, Brian...remember that J.P. "serves his country" (by being
a super-special amateur morseman).

Well, if you think so. I don't recall ever claiming that.

I do recall asking whether the only way someone could serve our country was by
joining the uniformed military services. So far, Len and Brian have avoided
that direct question.

If you say nasty to him or Coslo, you will be accused of TRYING
TO DESTROY HAM RADIO!!!! :-)

So you admit to "saying nasty". Tsk, tsk.

Heh. All their expertise and "radio operator skills" go in the toilet
when trying to defend the need for morse code testing.

"Go in the toilet"? How so?

We pose valid arguments but you avoid them.

They
resort to defamation/denigration/disassembly of those wanting to
eliminate the morse code test, all on the person but not the
subject.

"defamation/denigration/disassembly"? How so?

Do we call you names? Tell you to shut up? Call you "anal-retentive" or
"Republican"?

Or is that *your* game?

Lenof21 wrote:

In article .com, "bb"
writes:

N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:

N2EY wrote:

In article ,



(Len Over 21) writes:

Careful, Brian...remember that J.P. "serves his country" (by being
a super-special amateur morseman).

Did Jim ever write anything like that, Leonard, or is it something you
claim?

If you say nasty to him or Coslo, you will be accused of TRYING
TO DESTROY HAM RADIO!!!! :-)

Say nasty? Why would you do that?

Heh. All their expertise and "radio operator skills" go in the toilet
when trying to defend the need for morse code testing. They
resort to defamation/denigration/disassembly of those wanting to
eliminate the morse code test, all on the person but not the
subject. QED.

"They" do? What are you doing, Leonard?

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote:
Lenof21 wrote:

In article .com, "bb"
writes:


N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


wrote:


Mike Coslo wrote:


N2EY wrote:


In article ,




(Len Over 21) writes:


Careful, Brian...remember that J.P. "serves his country" (by being
a super-special amateur morseman).


Did Jim ever write anything like that, Leonard, or is it something you
claim?

Jim never said the "serves his country", at least followed with the
rest of that sentence. I wonder what the deal is with a qoute followed
by an statement in paren? An inferred quote? OY!


If you say nasty to him or Coslo, you will be accused of TRYING
TO DESTROY HAM RADIO!!!! :-)


Say nasty? Why would you do that?

My deduction is taken from what he has written that is *not* the saying
nasty part. The pejoratives and insults are just part of the background
noise.


Heh. All their expertise and "radio operator skills" go in the toilet
when trying to defend the need for morse code testing. They
resort to defamation/denigration/disassembly of those wanting to
eliminate the morse code test, all on the person but not the
subject. QED.


"They" do? What are you doing, Leonard?

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Lenof21 wrote:

In article .com, "bb"
writes:

N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:

N2EY wrote:

In article ,



(Len Over 21) writes:

Careful, Brian...remember that J.P. "serves his country" (by being
a super-special amateur morseman).

Did Jim ever write anything like that, Leonard, or is it something you
claim?

Which "Jim?"

Don't mighty macho morsemen "serve their country in OTHER ways?"

:-)


If you say nasty to him or Coslo, you will be accused of TRYING
TO DESTROY HAM RADIO!!!! :-)

Say nasty? Why would you do that?

Say what?

Tsk. Mighty macho morsemen seem to think that removal of the
morse code test is "destroying ham radio!"

Tsk, tsk. I'll bet you do. You seem to want to CONTROL all to
your way of thinking...ONLY your way...which is also what you've
been brainwashed into thinking by some kind of organization
headquartered in Newington.

You sure couldn't have learned your dictatorial ways in the State
Department. State isn't quite that bad, despite what a lot of
U.S. citizens (and a bunch of foreigners) think of it.


"They" do? What are you doing, Leonard?

I'm TRYING to argue against the morse code test. You are trying
to squelch such arguments by misdirection into defamation of any
who are against the morse code test.

I'd say that is against democratic principles. You wouldn't. You
control amateur radio because you are a participant. You claim
"turf" and want to exclude non-participants...even just TALK about
elimination of the morse code test.

Anyplace else that would be called "dictatorship." :-)

Yup, the World According To Dave is all about Beliefs in the Church
of St. Hiram, Pope Dave the 1st as emperor. Obey Him! :-)



Posted on 18 Jan 05

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Dave Heil wrote:
Lenof21 wrote:

In article .com, "bb"
writes:


N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


wrote:


Mike Coslo wrote:


N2EY wrote:


In article ,




(Len Over 21) writes:


Careful, Brian...remember that J.P. "serves his country" (by being
a super-special amateur morseman).


Did Jim ever write anything like that, Leonard, or is it something you
claim?

Jim never said the "serves his country", at least followed with the
rest of that sentence. I wonder what the deal is with a qoute followed
by an statement in paren? An inferred quote? OY!

Tsk. Don't YOU "serve your country in other ways?"

What are those "other" ways?

Are you preserving and protecting morse code for posterity like a
national treasure?

Or are you just preserving and protecting your posterior by running
around saying "I never said that and neither did anyone else?" :-)



If you say nasty to him or Coslo, you will be accused of TRYING
TO DESTROY HAM RADIO!!!! :-)


Say nasty? Why would you do that?

My deduction is taken from what he has written that is *not* the saying

nasty part. The pejoratives and insults are just part of the background
noise.

HYPOCRISY ALERT!

Tsk. Tsk. Tsk. PCTA extra Double Standard.

OK, let us work with your paranoia. Anyone against the morse code
test for a license is "destroying amateur radio!"

So...U.S. amateur radio is all about morse code and taking the morse
code test?

That seems very odd. In fact, it seems irrational...to normal folks.

But, to the irrational, plus those with such thin skins to be sorely
wounded by the slightest negativism against morse code, being
against the morse code test is "destroying amateur radio!"

I'm sure you feel obliged to sync your phants with those irrationalists.


"They" do? What are you doing, Leonard?

Trying to argue for the elimination of the morse code test. :-)

Tsk. There's so much background noise about personalities in
here it's almost impossible to get back to the subject.

Now, you go back to "serving your country in those OTHER ways."

Your country thanks you.

Did dit.



Posted on 18 Jan 05

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:


Lenof21 wrote:

In article .com, "bb"
writes:


N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


wrote:


Mike Coslo wrote:


N2EY wrote:


In article ,




(Len Over 21) writes:

Careful, Brian...remember that J.P. "serves his country" (by being
a super-special amateur morseman).

Did Jim ever write anything like that, Leonard, or is it something you
claim?


Which "Jim?"

Don't mighty macho morsemen "serve their country in OTHER ways?"

:-)


If you say nasty to him or Coslo, you will be accused of TRYING
TO DESTROY HAM RADIO!!!! :-)

Say nasty? Why would you do that?


Say what?

Tsk. Mighty macho morsemen seem to think that removal of the
morse code test is "destroying ham radio!"

Tsk, tsk. I'll bet you do. You seem to want to CONTROL all to
your way of thinking...ONLY your way...which is also what you've
been brainwashed into thinking by some kind of organization
headquartered in Newington.

You sure couldn't have learned your dictatorial ways in the State
Department. State isn't quite that bad, despite what a lot of
U.S. citizens (and a bunch of foreigners) think of it.



"They" do? What are you doing, Leonard?


I'm TRYING to argue against the morse code test. You are trying
to squelch such arguments by misdirection into defamation of any
who are against the morse code test.

Hmm, you possibly could:

Start a Morse code thread

Try to refrain from the pejoratives

You never know what might happen.

Then again, I suspect you enjoy things just the way they are. 8^)


I'd say that is against democratic principles. You wouldn't. You
control amateur radio because you are a participant. You claim
"turf" and want to exclude non-participants...even just TALK about
elimination of the morse code test.

Anyplace else that would be called "dictatorship." :-)

Yup, the World According To Dave is all about Beliefs in the Church
of St. Hiram, Pope Dave the 1st as emperor. Obey Him! :-)


.................shudder.........

- Mike KB3EIA -

Len Over 21 wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Jim never said the "serves his country", at least followed with the

rest of that sentence. I wonder what the deal is with a qoute
followed
by an statement in paren? An inferred quote? OY!

Tsk. Don't YOU "serve your country in other ways?"

What are those "other" ways?

Are you preserving and protecting morse code for posterity like a
national treasure?

Or are you just preserving and protecting your posterior by
running
around saying "I never said that and neither did anyone else?"

What ways are YOU serving, Lennie?

Filling sandbags at one mysterious "diaster" in 19 70-something
was the LAST contribution we were treated to.

Of course, considering your embittered and belittling rants
against anyone who dares to do anything that doesn't involve an
exchange of coin-of-the-realm for thier services, one could
successfully argue that by staying out of our way was, in it's own
twisted way, a "service". You'd just get your feelings trampelled on
when no one immediately recognized your infinite wisdom on yet ANOTHER
discipline in which you have no practical experience and you'd then be
on yet another rantfest.

So...U.S. amateur radio is all about morse code and taking the
morse
code test?

That seems very odd. In fact, it seems irrational...to normal
folks.

Actually, YOU are the ONLY one in this forum trying to make that
assertion!

That you are neither an Amateur licensee, nor have you ever been
one is the really irrational part.

Tsk. There's so much background noise about personalities in
here it's almost impossible to get back to the subject.

There's nothing to discuss. Lennie.

Nothing else said in this forum will affect the decisions to be
made in Washington.

Now, you go back to "serving your country in those OTHER ways."

In what ways do YOU serve your country, Lennie?

Please do not tell us about all those battlefield sacrifices in
1950. You weren't there. If you suffered so much as a scuffed knee in
the Army, it was from being down on them trying to convince SOMEone of
your value to the Army.

As we can see, it was ineffectual.

Your country thanks you.

Yours would thank you, Lennie, if we could find something in the
last 50 years to thank you FOR.

Putz.

Steve, K4YZ

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

some snippage for clarity



Careful, Brian...remember that J.P. "serves his country" (by being
a super-special amateur morseman).


Did Jim ever write anything like that, Leonard, or is it something you
claim?

Jim never said the "serves his country", at least followed with the
rest of that sentence. I wonder what the deal is with a qoute followed
by an statement in paren? An inferred quote? OY!


Tsk. Don't YOU "serve your country in other ways?"

Well, I'm off sick today. But otherwise yes.

What are those "other" ways?

You could try to find out

Are you preserving and protecting morse code for posterity like a
national treasure?

No. I don't have anything to do with Morse code.

Or are you just preserving and protecting your posterior by running
around saying "I never said that and neither did anyone else?" :-)

That is a job much better done by others.


If you say nasty to him or Coslo, you will be accused of TRYING
TO DESTROY HAM RADIO!!!! :-)


Say nasty? Why would you do that?

My deduction is taken from what he has written that is *not* the saying
nasty part. The pejoratives and insults are just part of the background
noise.


HYPOCRISY ALERT!

Tsk. Tsk. Tsk. PCTA extra Double Standard.

OK, let us work with your paranoia. Anyone against the morse code
test for a license is "destroying amateur radio!"

Incorrect. There is a world of difference between yourself and people
such as Bill Sohl and Carl Stevenson.

So...U.S. amateur radio is all about morse code and taking the morse
code test?

That seems very odd. In fact, it seems irrational...to normal folks.

As it should.

But, to the irrational, plus those with such thin skins to be sorely
wounded by the slightest negativism against morse code, being
against the morse code test is "destroying amateur radio!"

I'm sure you feel obliged to sync your phants with those irrationalists.



"They" do? What are you doing, Leonard?


Trying to argue for the elimination of the morse code test. :-)

Well start some Morse code threads! 8^) I might even drop in on them
from time to time.

Tsk. There's so much background noise about personalities in
here it's almost impossible to get back to the subject.

I believe that is your job.

Mike Coslo wrote:

Len Over 21 wrote:

I'd say that is against democratic principles. You wouldn't. You
control amateur radio because you are a participant. You claim
"turf" and want to exclude non-participants...even just TALK about
elimination of the morse code test.

Anyplace else that would be called "dictatorship." :-)

Yup, the World According To Dave is all about Beliefs in the Church
of St. Hiram, Pope Dave the 1st as emperor. Obey Him! :-)


................shudder.........

Oh, this was one of Len's more polite and rational posts, Mike. At
least in this one, I'm not painted as a Nazi.

Dave K8MN

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Oh, this was one of Len's more polite and rational posts, Mike. At
least in this one, I'm not painted as a Nazi.

Tsk. You don't need "paint." You IS.



Posted on 18 Jan 05

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


I'm TRYING to argue against the morse code test. You are trying
to squelch such arguments by misdirection into defamation of any
who are against the morse code test.

Hmm, you possibly could:

Start a Morse code thread

I have.

Try to refrain from the pejoratives

Sorry. Someone insults me, I give 'em back lots more.

So far, in this Din of Inequity, the few, the proud (of themselves),
the murines (eyewash) wan't to pummel and pound on any
NCTA...especially using personal pejoratives.

You never know what might happen.

Sorry, sweetums, I've seen what has already happened. So have
you and everyone else accessing this newsgrope.

Then again, I suspect you enjoy things just the way they are. 8^)

You are WRONG. The PCTA just can't take opposing views
on the morse code test. They get so very bitchy and angry
and demand to get all who argue against the retention that it
becomes a repeated comedy of brainwashing phrases by them.

No problem on my replying in kind to the PCTA...if I have the
time to spend on their trite, tired, tintabulation of olde-tyme
phrases. I'm busy with lots of other things, but I can find time
once in a while to puncture their arrogant balloons of old, stale,
hot air.



Posted on 18 Jan 05

Lenof21 wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


I'm TRYING to argue against the morse code test. You are
trying
to squelch such arguments by misdirection into defamation of
any
who are against the morse code test.

Hmm, you possibly could:

Start a Morse code thread

I have.

Actually, in most cases, you take threas on other topics and try
to insert a Morse Code redirect.

People don't want to discuss Morse Code testing anymore because
most people (those who read something OTHER than their own work...)
know that the issue is moot at this point. Nothing else stated in this
forum will change Federal policy.

Try to refrain from the pejoratives

Sorry. Someone insults me, I give 'em back lots more.

Yet another monumental lie.

Neither Jim Miccolis nor Mike Coslo do anything of the kind, yet
you pour it over Jim like molasses, and you've started in on Mike.

You did it to me, you'v done it to EVERYone who's ever dared to
suggest that YOUR opinion doesn't match theirs.

You do it on a whim, then cry foul when it gets fed back to YOU.

So far, in this Din of Inequity, the few, the proud (of
themselves),
the murines (eyewash) wan't to pummel and pound on any
NCTA...especially using personal pejoratives.

Sorry Lennie...it's the level at which you function, and I'd hate
to leave you out of the conversations.

You never know what might happen.

Sorry, sweetums...(SNIP)

Point made.

I have yet to see Mike refr to you by anything other than your
expressed preferred names.

Thanks for proving my point right here in THIS post (as if I would
have had to wait long anyway.....)

(UNSNIP)...I've seen what has already happened. So have
you and everyone else accessing this newsgrope.

And they just got a prime example of why everyone else in this
newsgoup is justified in their opinion of you and why you are a
disreputable liar.

Thanks.

Then again, I suspect you enjoy things just the way they are. 8^)

You are WRONG.

IF Mike had been wrong, you would have continued to address
him with out the insulting diminutives and "endearments".

The PCTA just can't take opposing views
on the morse code test. They get so very bitchy and angry
and demand to get all who argue against the retention that it
becomes a repeated comedy of brainwashing phrases by them.

Actually the comedy comes from watching a pathological liar
continue to make excuses for his lies and misdeeds, only to get caught
up in even MORE lies and misdeeds.

No problem on my replying in kind to the PCTA...if I have the
time to spend on their trite, tired, tintabulation of olde-tyme
phrases.

Then why the continued use of diminutives against people who do
not do it to you?

Why do you insist that you ONLY do it to people who do it to you,
when there's almost a decades worth of evidence to the contrary with
Jim Miccolis alone, and now you have started in on Mike Coslo.

I'm busy with lots of other things...(SNIP)

No you're not. There's not one iota of any evidence in any other
forum of a single contructive effort with your name attached to it.

You're an egotistical, mean old man with nothing left to do in his
life except make other people as miserable as you are.

(UNSNIP)...but I can find time
once in a while to puncture their arrogant balloons of old, stale,
hot air.

You can TRY, but so far all you've done is prove what WE have been
saying all along.

Leonard H. Anderson is a liar.

Leonard H. Anderson is untrustworthy.

Leonard H. Anderson is deceitful.

And it's Leonard H. Anderson who provides the proof of the
accusations.

Thanks.

You've single handedly done more to undermine your "advocacy" than
any other VALID arguments could ahve done.

Who wants to be associated with an issue that is so voiciferously
and embarassingly represented by the likes of you...??? Just do the
world a favor and stay away from such issues as finding an AIDS
vaccine, cures for cancer, or preventing birth defects.
Putz.

Steve, K4YZ

Lenof21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:


Oh, this was one of Len's more polite and rational posts, Mike. At
least in this one, I'm not painted as a Nazi.


Tsk. You don't need "paint." You IS.

So you are saying that Dave is a Nazi?

- Mike KB3EIA -

Lenof21 wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:



I'm TRYING to argue against the morse code test. You are trying
to squelch such arguments by misdirection into defamation of any
who are against the morse code test.

Hmm, you possibly could:

Start a Morse code thread


I have.


Try to refrain from the pejoratives


Sorry. Someone insults me, I give 'em back lots more.

So when have I insulted you? You aren't considering disagreement as
insulting are you?


So far, in this Din of Inequity, the few, the proud (of themselves),
the murines (eyewash) wan't to pummel and pound on any
NCTA...especially using personal pejoratives.

Bill Sohl seems to have escaped that fate when he posts here.

You never know what might happen.


Sorry, sweetums, I've seen what has already happened. So have
you and everyone else accessing this newsgrope.

Chicken and egg syndrome? Given the history of posters here, I would
suspect that if you were to adopt a different strategy, there would be
some posts that would be provoking. However, if ignored, that stuff goes
away.


Then again, I suspect you enjoy things just the way they are. 8^)


You are WRONG.

Seriously? You don't enjoy tweaking people? So another description of
what you are doing is that you are engaging in something that you hate
to do, in the interests of eliminating the Morse code test, in a Usenet
newsgroup? Are you making some sort of Quixotic sacrifice in a Usenet
newsgroup in an attempt to eliminate Morse code testing?

The PCTA just can't take opposing views
on the morse code test. They get so very bitchy and angry
and demand to get all who argue against the retention that it
becomes a repeated comedy of brainwashing phrases by them.

No problem on my replying in kind to the PCTA...if I have the
time to spend on their trite, tired, tintabulation of olde-tyme
phrases. I'm busy with lots of other things, but I can find time
once in a while to puncture their arrogant balloons of old, stale,
hot air.

All the arguments are old and we've heard them a lot. From both sides.

- Mike KB3EIA

Mike Coslo wrote:

Lenof21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:


Oh, this was one of Len's more polite and rational posts, Mike. At
least in this one, I'm not painted as a Nazi.


Tsk. You don't need "paint." You IS.

So you are saying that Dave is a Nazi?

It looks that way to me. Len doesn't play well with others.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:

Lenof21 wrote:


In article , Dave Heil
writes:



Oh, this was one of Len's more polite and rational posts, Mike. At
least in this one, I'm not painted as a Nazi.


Tsk. You don't need "paint." You IS.

So you are saying that Dave is a Nazi?


It looks that way to me. Len doesn't play well with others.

Hmm, some things are not to be said even in jest. I guess Mr. Godwin
just handed you a free lifetime pass.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:

Dave Heil wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:

Lenof21 wrote:


In article , Dave Heil
writes:



Oh, this was one of Len's more polite and rational posts, Mike. At
least in this one, I'm not painted as a Nazi.


Tsk. You don't need "paint." You IS.

So you are saying that Dave is a Nazi?


It looks that way to me. Len doesn't play well with others.

Hmm, some things are not to be said even in jest. I guess Mr. Godwin
just handed you a free lifetime pass.

You see, Mike, this is just another occasion in which Len has done the
things he says he never does. To balance things out, he often doesn't
do the things he says he'll do.

Dave K8MN

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Lenof21 wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:



I'm TRYING to argue against the morse code test. You are trying
to squelch such arguments by misdirection into defamation of any
who are against the morse code test.

Hmm, you possibly could:

Start a Morse code thread


I have.


Try to refrain from the pejoratives


Sorry. Someone insults me, I give 'em back lots more.

So when have I insulted you? You aren't considering disagreement as
insulting are you?


So far, in this Din of Inequity, the few, the proud (of themselves),
the murines (eyewash) wan't to pummel and pound on any
NCTA...especially using personal pejoratives.

Bill Sohl seems to have escaped that fate when he posts here.

You never know what might happen.


Sorry, sweetums, I've seen what has already happened. So have
you and everyone else accessing this newsgrope.

Chicken and egg syndrome? Given the history of posters here, I would
suspect that if you were to adopt a different strategy, there would be
some posts that would be provoking. However, if ignored, that stuff goes
away.

Given the "history of posters here," especially the PCTA extras,
your good idea is merely impractical bull****.

PCTA extras all pretend to be "superior" and let everyone know it.


Then again, I suspect you enjoy things just the way they are. 8^)


You are WRONG.

Seriously? You don't enjoy tweaking people?

The "tweaking" is easy for me to do. Most of the postings I do
simply "write themselves." :-)

You seem to forget that I've had a long career of working in electronics.
Electrons (in electronics) do NOT get influenced by human desires.
All humans who work with electrons have to play be electron's rules.
I enjoy that kind of work. It appears cold, hard, logical but can be
quite creative once you learn electron's rules. Once that is done, they
CAN follow human orders.

The odd part of human nature is that the PCTA extras think that all
must follow Their rules, obey them, etc., and some get quite
fanciful in imagining the "motivations" of the NCTA.

So another description of
what you are doing is that you are engaging in something that you hate
to do, in the interests of eliminating the Morse code test, in a Usenet
newsgroup?

Incorrect. Your speculation is nonsense.

You forget that many more readers follow what goes on in here.
They, too, can see/read the propaganda nonsense about the
nobility and efficacy of morse code and the alleged "necessity"
of the amateur radio morse code test. Those readers need a bit
of boost on the reasons AGAINST it. Myself and others have
presented opposing reasons for that code test.

Are you making some sort of Quixotic sacrifice in a Usenet
newsgroup in an attempt to eliminate Morse code testing?

No. If you will bother to read the 18 petitions at the FCC you
would see that it isn't some Cervantes fictional character
exercise...but, some of the proponents of the code test are
indeed human windmills whirling in dead air.

The PCTA just can't take opposing views
on the morse code test. They get so very bitchy and angry
and demand to get all who argue against the retention that it
becomes a repeated comedy of brainwashing phrases by them.

No problem on my replying in kind to the PCTA...if I have the
time to spend on their trite, tired, tintabulation of olde-tyme
phrases. I'm busy with lots of other things, but I can find time
once in a while to puncture their arrogant balloons of old, stale,
hot air.

All the arguments are old and we've heard them a lot. From both sides.

Poor baby. You seem distressed. Or perhaps your lordship
wishes better entertainment?

Here is a suggestion for your lordship: Use your amateur radio
license and operate your mighty transceiver on the air instead of
accessing this newsgroup. Chat with other human beings (or what
passes for same).

Or, your lordship could take the lead and open up a real Chat Room
all about morse code on amateur radio and how wonderful it is and
that morsemanship should be done by all the "superior" beings. You
could develop a real following and become a Name in Chat Room
circles, get known, develop a "rep." Or even a website where you
could post "awards" given by the certificate makers and praise
yourself for being so damn good.

This is NOT a "Chat Room" for idle gossip and cracker-barrel
philosophy by a few regulars who have grown overly full of themselves.
Even though they think they own the place (and can therefore dictate
who gets to sit in), they don't. True. They don't even when their
feathers get very ruffled by opposing opinions. (poor things...)

Morse code is an old, primitive communications mode. The first
morse code was used in 1844...on a commercial wired system, not
on radio (radio had yet to be proved to exist). Early radio used on-
off keying codes because that was the ONLY practical way to
communicate given that there were no vacuum tubes and certainly
no transistors. Primitive stuff that was first demonstrated in 1896.
What passes for truisms about morse code "superiority" as
spouted by the ARRL was formed in the 1930s, seven decades ago.
Of course the reasons to maintain morse code testing are OLD.

The silly part of it is that so many olde-tymers insist that the old
is "best" and that nothing should change. They can't devise any
good reasons to keep that code test, nothing new during the seven
decades they've tried. All those reasons are tired, trite, cliches'
and the reasons against them are true, familiar, easy to repeat.
Again, refutation of the pro-code-test-advocates' "reasons" almost
"write themselves."

The only thing "new" with the PCTA extras is their propensity for
"replying" by personal insults against the NCTA. All NCTA are
"inferior" to them and their mighty accomplishments with morse.
In short, they are so full of themselves that they cannot accept
any others' inputs. They are stuffed and over-stuffed. Some go to
the bursting point. Two former PCTA extras in here may have
done just that. Other PCTA extras are expected to follow.

Perhaps you should go to Church more often...such as to the
Church of St. Hiram, the patron saint of Newington. There you
could mass with other morsemen and celebrate the mode in
chorus with a heavenly choir. Wash your brain regularly lest all
the old, tired, trite cliches' fall out. By all means, exercise your
morsemanship regularly to be ready for the Second Coming of
Aliens so you can defeat them via morse code and thereby
Save the World. After all, you are "superior" through morse code.



Posted on 19 Jan 05

Len Over 21 wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Lenof21 wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:



I'm TRYING to argue against the morse code test. You are
trying
to squelch such arguments by misdirection into defamation of
any
who are against the morse code test.

Hmm, you possibly could:

Start a Morse code thread


I have.


Try to refrain from the pejoratives


Sorry. Someone insults me, I give 'em back lots more.

So when have I insulted you? You aren't considering disagreement as

insulting are you?


So far, in this Din of Inequity, the few, the proud (of
themselves),
the murines (eyewash) wan't to pummel and pound on any
NCTA...especially using personal pejoratives.

Bill Sohl seems to have escaped that fate when he posts here.

You never know what might happen.


Sorry, sweetums, I've seen what has already happened. So have
you and everyone else accessing this newsgrope.

Chicken and egg syndrome? Given the history of posters here, I
would
suspect that if you were to adopt a different strategy, there would
be
some posts that would be provoking. However, if ignored, that stuff
goes
away.

Given the "history of posters here," especially the PCTA extras,
your good idea is merely impractical bull****.

In your very first sentence of reply, Lennie, you prove Mike
correct.

The "impracticality" comes from YOUR unwillingness to stop lying,
deceiving and being antagonistic. It's just not in what little bit of
a character you have to do....

And your use of emphatic profanity to try and "make your point"
only further serves to demonstrate just how angry you get when someone
makes such a well said and valid observation.

You've been bested once again, Lennie, and it cuts to the core.
Bravo, Mike

Steve, K4YZ

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Dave Heil wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:

Lenof21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil

writes:

Oh, this was one of Len's more polite and rational posts, Mike. At
least in this one, I'm not painted as a Nazi.

Tsk. You don't need "paint." You IS.

That was posted on the 60th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz. A
message is in there, someplace.

So you are saying that Dave is a Nazi?

It looks that way to me. Len doesn't play well with others.

Hmm, some things are not to be said even in jest. I guess Mr. Godwin
just handed you a free lifetime pass.

Mike, there's a long history of Len using that sort of imagery when writing
here. Although Len will sometimes use smileys or dismiss it as a joke, it isn't
funny.

As you have experienced yourself, Len considers disagreement with his cherished
views, pointing out his mistakes, or criticizing his behavior here to be an
insult to him personally.

73 de Jim, N2EY