N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

wrote:

Michael Coslo wrote:

I felt kinda bad about being mean to Len,


When were you mean to Len, Mike?

Unless you count disagreeing with him and proving him wrong as
"being
mean", you've been nothing but nice to him.

Well, he probably thinks so!

Mike Deignan had him pegged. Len's really ticked that somewhere, out
there,
somebody is having fun with ham radio.

so I'll try to meet him
halfway with a Morse code topic.

His definition of meeting halfway is that you agree with him 100%.

That is certainly possible...

It's self-evident...

So maybe we can ressurect this old one...

I hear lots of Hams declare that Morse code is a binary mode.

It is most certainly not.

Depends how you define "binary".

One state equals "0" or "off".
The other state equals "1" or "on".

You have to define "state". If "key up" and "key down" are the
states, it's
binary. Time isn't the factor you make it - look at how Baudot works.


Let us look at the situation.

Is the Dit a "0"?

No.

Is the Dah a "1"?

No.

Is the space between characters a "0"? and the Dih a "1"? Oh wait,
what is the Dah then? Oh, and what about the space between words?

Key up is "0". Key down is "1". Also known as "space" and "mark",
respectively.

Unfortunately, there are two separate "1" states, and the zero state
is
not a constant thing.

Doesn't have to be. It's a time code.

There is the matter of time. A zero might me the space between
letters,
or one half of a dit. It might also mean the space between words.
All
different things.

No. The characters are built from the basic elements, which are key
up and key
down, just like, say, Baudot RTTY.

That Morse code can be turned into binary is not at argument here.
It
obviously can, just as images, emails and everything else we do on
the
computer. Are they binary because someone has written a program to
turn
them into strings of 1's and 0's?

Their basic transmission form is binary, same as Morse.

A non-binary code is one that has more than two *transmission*
states, like
QPSK. Which is typically implemented as 0, 90, 180 and 270 degrees
shift. Four
transmission states rather than two.

It isn't binary,

Depends on how you define "binary".

and the way our noodles process it isn't binary.

Different subject.

Not really. If you look at the string of 1's and 0's that Doug
posted
as the binary result of my hypothetical CQ, is that something that
you
would recognize as that CQ? That string IS binary.

I would recognize it easily.

Why does the - and . method of typing out the code convey the
information? the dashes and the spaces convey time information to
the
person looking at them. I'm counting more than two states here.

It's not the simplest way, though. It shows the time differently.

It's not binary.

Most Morse operators with any skill (that excludes Len) process a
complete character as one "sound". "didahdidit" is recognized as
"L",
in the same way that when you hear the word "cat", you think of
the
animal. The Morse operator does not think in terms of dits and
dahs any
more than a person thinks in terms of the consonant and vowel
sounds
(phonemes) making up "cat".

Of course *really* skilled Morse ops hear entire words as units of
sound. And at some level, they begin to think in Morse, just as
fluent
speakers of a language think in that language.
Of course Len wouldn't know about that...

The big question is: what does it matter if Morse is binary or not?

. . . finally . . of course not. But you already knew that . .

73 de Jim, N2EY

w3rv

In article .com,
writes:

The big question is: what does it matter if Morse is binary or not?

. . . finally . . of course not. But you already knew that . .

Quite true. The coslonaut (reaching for the threashold of space
through surplus helium balloons) originally posted a troll message
to liven up this "members-only" chat room cum group blog.

Webster's New World Compact School and Office Dictionary
(1989) has the definition of BINARY as following:

"1. Made up of two parts: double 2. designating or of a number
system in which the base used is two, each number being
expressed by using only two digits, specifically 1 and 0."

As used in all electronics, the first definition is used with an
emphasis on STATE of something, such as on or off, there or
not there. Two-state.

In on-off keying (OOK) CW the carrier is either present or not
there. Two states.

In PSK morse code, the carrier is either phase-shifted or not
phase-shifted. Two states.

In MCW the tone is either there or not there. Two states.

In the original Morse-Vail Telegraph System (beginning 1844),
there was either current flowing in the wire lines or not flowing.
Two states.

In later "polar keying" telegraphy, the current was either flowing
in one direction or flowing in the opposite direction. Two states.
However, such "polar keying" (originally "polarized keying"), those
are implemented as TRINARY since there is the state where no
current is flowing in the loop.

It is not known if Reggie Fessenden invented polarized keying in
1900 (Rev. Jimmie Who will be sure to sermonize on that later),
but polar keying was often used in old teleprinter wired systems.

Morse code is definitely BINARY. Binary does not refer to the
time or duration of maintaining either of two states.

None of that really matters to any policy discussions. It matters
greatly to those chat-roomers or morse-bloggers who MUST fill
space with all kinds of miscellaneous dreck subjects reveling in
the sanctity, efficacy, nobility of an archaic communications
system coming up on its 161st anniversary of existance. It's so
damn good that every other communications service uses morse
code, right? :-)

Meanwhile, let's all give hearty congratulations to the coslonaut
for having achieved a 100,000 foot attitude!

Len Anderson wrote:
In article .com,
writes:


The big question is: what does it matter if Morse is binary or not?

. . . finally . . of course not. But you already knew that . .


Quite true. The coslonaut (reaching for the threashold of space
through surplus helium balloons) originally posted a troll message
to liven up this "members-only" chat room cum group blog.

You betchya!

Webster's New World Compact School and Office Dictionary
(1989) has the definition of BINARY as following:

"1. Made up of two parts: double 2. designating or of a number
system in which the base used is two, each number being
expressed by using only two digits, specifically 1 and 0."

How many states are there in Morse code? On, and Off? Is that all?

- Mike KB3EIA -

Len Anderson wrote:
In article .com,
writes:

In later "polar keying" telegraphy, the current was either flowing
in one direction or flowing in the opposite direction. Two
states.
However, such "polar keying" (originally "polarized keying"),
those
are implemented as TRINARY since there is the state where no
current is flowing in the loop . . .

Welp then that means CW is a tertiary mode. Given a slice of RF
spectrum space in which CW is being transmitted there are actually
three states: Key down, key up and the noise between up n' down. OYeah,
the noise matters as a "state".


Morse code is definitely BINARY. Binary does not refer to the
time or duration of maintaining either of two states.

None of that really matters to any policy discussions. It matters
greatly to those chat-roomers or morse-bloggers who MUST fill
space with all kinds of miscellaneous dreck subjects reveling in
the sanctity, efficacy, nobility . . .

Sweetums for God's sake it's drek . . as in "Drek mit Leber" . .

w3rv