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#1
February 28th 05, 05:53 PM
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Mike Coslo wrote: wrote: Alun L. Palmer wrote: wrote in news:1108637750.922635.205620 : Alun L. Palmer wrote: "Alun L. Palmer" wrote in . 30: wrote in news:1108578593.250795.201100 : Alun L. Palmer wrote: Yes, South Africa has abolished the code test! One more domino has fallen. How many countries does that make now, compared to those who still have it? It's getting a little difficult to keep track. However, I think at least the UK, Ireland, France, Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland, Singapore, Australia, New Zealand, Papua Niugini, Hong Kong and South Africa have abolished the code test so far. I think that of these only Austria and the Netherlands even retain an entry level licence that doesn't give HF privileges. That's only 17 countries, but I expect I may have missed some out. I make the combined ham population of the above something over 260,000 (possibly more than half of them no-coders), so probably a little less than half the number of hams in the US. 260,000/670,000 = about 38.9% Quite a bit less than half. However, there are well over 50,000 hams in Canada, which is also likely to abolish the code test very soon. Yep. But there are two big points about Canada: 1) The proposal would increase the written test level This is a biggie. Simply proposing to drop the code test is *not* the same thing as proposing to drop the code test *and* beef up the writtens. I'd like that quite a bit. But that hasn't been proposed in the USA. IIRC, one of the things proposed in Canada was to make the code test optional in that if you passed code you didn't need as high a grade on theory to get the license. Now that just seems strange. How so? It's simply an option. The test should either be or not be. Not some kind of bonus that allows you to be less technically proficient. Then why require more technical knowledge for an Extra? That license does not allow the holder to use any more modes, power, or bands than a General. Just a few additional slices of spectrum. If the nocodetest folks in the USA proposed options like those they might get a lot more support. But instead, we have folks like NCVEC telling us we must drop code *and* reduce the written still more. And how! Let's not forget that NCI also supports lowering the test requirements. So do others that support automatic upgrades. All they have to go on is "gut" feelings. And unfortunately, the first wave of no-code Technicians appear to be dropping like flies. "Gut" feelings can be wrong. I don't see *any* license class "dropping like flies". Check the AH0A data on renewals - thousands of Techs are renewing every month, either before the license runs out or in the grace period. Note that almost 5 years after the 200 restructuring we still retain more than 50% of Novices and 75% of Advanceds. Theirs is a failed and incorrect paradigm. Maybe. The concept of "lowered entry requirements = sustained growth" just hasn't happened in the ARS. We don't need hams that thought that maybe it would be kewl to get a ham license some weekend between coffee at Starbucks and their Pilates classes, and then forget about it. We need hams who want to be hams. Agreed! But of course people have to know what ham radio *is* to do that! 2) Commentary to the Canadian proposal showed a clear majority favored the change. That's not the case in the USA, in any survey done to date, nor in the commentary to FCC. Another biggie. Don't forget that Japan, with a ham population of 1.2 Million (twice that of the US, out of maybe a fifth of your general population), has long had a no-code HF licence, albeit limited to 10 Watts. Check your numbers! Japan has over 3.1 million operator licenses - but they cost nothing and never expire, so that number is really the number of ham operator licenses issued since 1955, not the number of present-day hams. Japanese *station* licenses are a bit over 600,000 now, and have been dropping for a decade. The number of new JA licenses has also been dropping. See the AH0A website. I'm not sure how many Japanese hams have a no-code HF licence, Well over 95%. but they may even rival all the new ones so far put together, although the new guys can use more than 10 Watts! It's probably only a matter of time before Japan lets all of their hams use HF anyway. All Japanese hams have HF privileges *today*. Been that way for decades. But for all classes of ham license except 4th class, JA hams have a code test. And there's no move to change that yet. And for ten years JA ham license numbers have been dropping fast. *With* nocodetest HF. Quick! Let's emulate Japan! Except we can do it better by allowing the newbies full power privileges. Japan's obvious success can be our own! Indeed. Even without the low power Japanese stations, the number of no-coders who have full HF privileges right now is probably about the same as the number of no-code Techs in the US. Close enough. And if there are already that number of no-code hams on HF without any incident, what is the problem with abolishing the code test here? The USA isn't Japan. Different society, different culture, different rules. I don't know if any of us geniuses have though about it, but lets say in a country where a business can get successfully sued for a woman not knowing that here hot coffee was hot, and burning herself when trying to hold the darn thing between her legs. (sorry Phil, but what if she simply ruined her dress because the coffee was wet?- negligent design of the cup?) So lets have a newbie ham that fires up his/her kilowatt rig, and is half fried because no one told him not to touch the wirey thingies on the back of the box thingy. Ohh, I can see the successful lawsuits already! We have that situation today. I've nailed myself with 50 watts, enough to produce a painful burn and a cute little scar on the boo-boo finger. Some dunce that catches a ride on a thousand watts might just have a very successful lawsuit if we don't train them well. The same is true of ordinary house current. And it's not just voltage. Get a metal ring a high current supply and the results aren't pretty. If the ring is on your finger..... Yet the NCVEC folks say the solution is to create a class of ham that can't use rigs with more than 30 volts on the electronics... RF Safety should be the FIRST order of the day, and NO one should be a Ham until they are tested for RF safety to the ability to handle full legal limit. Why? We don't test people on gasoline-handling safety, nor ladder safety, nor many other things that injure thousands of Americans every year. I agree that every ham should be safety-aware. But a true test of safety would be far more extensive than even the Extra writtens. And those who think that limiting the finals voltage, or some other weird thing is the answer, are advised to think about things such as Technician Hams operating under supervision. It only takes a second to drop a paper and reach behind a Rig. Less time than the control op can react. I want those Technicians to be exposed to full power safety requirements. They are - today, anyway. Anything else is criminally negligent. Umm, Mike, you're saying it's the Govt's role to protect people from their own ignorance and unsafe behavior..... It would be interesting to see what the JA 4th class *written* exam looks like. And as mentioned before, the number of JA station licenses and new operator licenses is way down. That's 18, I didn't count both Austria and Australia! OK. But it's still a small fraction of the number of hams and the number of countries. The big questions: Must all countries drop the code test because a few have decided to? Or can each country decide for itself. Each country can do as it chooses, but the trend is to abolish the code test. The trend in most countries is to ban or severely restrict individual ownership of firearms, too. Has the change caused lots of new growth in countries that have dropped code testing? No, but it's increased HF activity in those countries So all it's done is to permit *existing* hams to upgrade. But it *hasn't* brought in lots of new folks. Which means the Morse code isn't the "problem" some people make it out to be. Of course! It's the classic case of a red herring diversion. Blame the code test for everyhting bad while the real problems are not addressed. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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#3
February 28th 05, 09:04 PM
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Alun L. Palmer wrote:
wrote in snippage It's the classic case of a red herring diversion. Blame the code test for everyhting bad while the real problems are not addressed. 73 de Jim, N2EY It depends what you mean. Will repealing the code test provide a vast increase in numbers? No. Will it provide some increase? Yes. Are there thousands of hams that could pass the General or Extra theory trapped above 30 MHz? Yes. Will there be a large increase in HF use? Yes. How are people "trapped" above 30 MHz? When I was limited in that manner, I could take a test and have full access? In addition I would note that many of the No-coded Tech's are perfectly happy to be where they are at. How many that is overall, I don't know, but it's conjecture, same as yours. All of our discussion of how many new HF qualified Hams will show up due to a presumed elimination of the Morse code test is a bit of a red herring in itself. Is it a good thing to have more new Hams? Most people would agree. Is it a good thing to reduce qualifications to get new Hams? Probably somewhat less agreement. What has our experience with uncoded licensees been? I'd say generally good, but I am concerned about retention. What has happened in other countries in which no code has been needed for HF access? I'd have to say that even the idea of trying to argue about it from an HF/VHF access view is a red herring too. Seems like we should be trying to ensure that New Hams remain Hams. Is HF access the secret? I doubt it. HF is in general more difficult to set up for and to operate. - Mike KB3EIA - |
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#4
March 4th 05, 04:04 AM
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"Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message .. . wrote in oups.com: [snip] It's the classic case of a red herring diversion. Blame the code test for everyhting bad while the real problems are not addressed. 73 de Jim, N2EY It depends what you mean. Will repealing the code test provide a vast increase in numbers? No. Will it provide some increase? Yes. I'd say that's more like a maybe rather than a yes. Are there thousands of hams that could pass the General or Extra theory trapped above 30 MHz? Yes. There are no hams "trapped above 30Mhz. Will there be a large increase in HF use? Yes. That is also a maybe. If the code is dropped this year, many will buy the rigs and try it but may be sadly disappointed in the results since we are in the trough of the sunspot cycle and results are so often poor right now. They may not stick with it until conditions improve since they won't have the skills to participate in the second most used mode of shortwave communications. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
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#5
March 4th 05, 07:44 PM
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Dee Flint wrote:
"Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message .. . wrote in groups.com: [snip] It's the classic case of a red herring diversion. Blame the code test for everyhting bad while the real problems are not addressed. 73 de Jim, N2EY It depends what you mean. Will repealing the code test provide a vast increase in numbers? No. Will it provide some increase? Yes. I'd say that's more like a maybe rather than a yes. Are there thousands of hams that could pass the General or Extra theory trapped above 30 MHz? Yes. There are no hams "trapped above 30Mhz. Will there be a large increase in HF use? Yes. That is also a maybe. If the code is dropped this year, many will buy the rigs and try it but may be sadly disappointed in the results since we are in the trough of the sunspot cycle and results are so often poor right now. They may not stick with it until conditions improve since they won't have the skills to participate in the second most used mode of shortwave communications. Wow, good point, Dee! When I first got my license, the band conditions were very good on average. The "work the world on a wet string" days. Now 20 meters is usually half dead around 7 p.m. and the broadcasters are starting to flood 40 meters. So a new HF'er is going to wonder just exactly what those new privileges are worth. As the sunspot cycle winds down, the conditions are only going to get worse. 80 meters will be a crowed pool for the next few years. Personally I think that anyone who is feels trapped by having to learn Morse code will feel equally or more trapped when they discover what they have to do to get a good signal out on 80/75 meters! Maybe they can get the F.C.C. to repeal those stupid propagation conditions! 8^) - Mike KB3EIA - |
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#6
March 4th 05, 07:54 PM
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On Thurs, Mar 3 2005 11:04 pm, "Dee Flint" (calmed down from a previous
hissy fit) jumped into a so-called conversation and shouted out: "Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message . .. wrote in oups.com: [snip] It's the classic case of a red herring diversion. Blame the code test for everyhting bad while the real problems are not addressed. 73 de Jim, N2EY It depends what you mean. Will repealing the code test provide a vast increase in numbers? No. Will it provide some increase? Yes. I'd say that's more like a maybe rather than a yes. What? You don't KNOW? All PCTAs KNOW things EXACTLY! :-) Are there thousands of hams that could pass the General or Extra theory trapped above 30 MHz? Yes. There are no hams "trapped above 30Mhz. Riiiiight, Mama Dee. Nobody is trapped. No-coders are NOBODIES. :-) Will there be a large increase in HF use? Yes. That is also a maybe. If the code is dropped this year, many will buy the rigs and try it but may be sadly disappointed in the results since we are in the trough of the sunspot cycle and results are so often poor right now. Sorry, Dee, you can't be right unless you give the EXACT number. "No one will believe you if you don't give us the exact data." :-) Riiiight, Dee, the "only" purpose of HF is "to work DX with CW." :-) They may not stick with it until conditions improve since they won't have the skills to participate in the second most used mode of shortwave communications. Wow, all that struggle just to be "second best!" Such "incentive!" Gots to "work DX on HF with CW." On "shortwave!" BTW, the rest of the radio world uses the term "shortwave" to refer to small wavelengths measured in centimeters. It's in all the trade magazines. Oops, I forgot. Real hams don't read industry trades. The only approved publications about radio come from the ARRL. Work, struggle with all one's might to become "second best." :-) Mediocre is the word. Or, to keep the "CW" bandplan open as an olde-tymer's playground/sandbox to keep their righteousnesses happy. "Real" radio operators do "CW." All important, vital, necessities, righteous. Get and keep federal LAW to TEST all hobbyists operating below 30 MHz or the sky will fall! |
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#7
March 5th 05, 04:08 AM
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woke up from a long winter's nap and wrote:
On Thurs, Mar 3 2005 11:04 pm, "Dee Flint" (calmed down from a previous hissy fit) jumped into a so-called conversation and shouted out: "Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message . .. wrote in oups.com: [snip] Are there thousands of hams that could pass the General or Extra theory trapped above 30 MHz? Yes. There are no hams "trapped above 30Mhz. Riiiiight, Mama Dee. Nobody is trapped. No-coders are NOBODIES. :-) Incorrect, grizzled ancient one. No coders have the same opportunity to pass the piddling, easy 5 wpm code test as anyone else. :-) :-) Riiiight, Dee, the "only" purpose of HF is "to work DX with CW." :-) Nobody is peddling that claim except for you and you aren't involved with DX or CW. They may not stick with it until conditions improve since they won't have the skills to participate in the second most used mode of shortwave communications. Wow, all that struggle just to be "second best!" Such "incentive!" Gots to "work DX on HF with CW." On "shortwave!" Those of us who care to will. How are you involved? BTW, the rest of the radio world uses the term "shortwave" to refer to small wavelengths measured in centimeters. That's simply incorrect. The term has been defined and understood for many, many decades. If some Johnny-come-lately wants to act as if he has just invented the terms "shortwave" or "wireless" let him join you in looking like a complete boob. It's in all the trade magazines. Oops, I forgot. Real hams don't read industry trades. The only approved publications about radio come from the ARRL. Real hams may read anything they choose and even a non-ham like yourself may look at QST. Work, struggle with all one's might to become "second best." :-) Mediocre is the word. You whine and whine over a measly five wpm morse code test and you dare write of mediocrity? :-) :-) Or, to keep the "CW" bandplan open as an olde-tymer's playground/sandbox to keep their righteousnesses happy. "Real" radio operators do "CW." All important, vital, necessities, righteous. Get and keep federal LAW to TEST all hobbyists operating below 30 MHz or the sky will fall! Seems as if you're really swinging from the chandelier today, Leonard. Dave K8MN |
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#8
March 5th 05, 06:24 PM
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"Dave Heil" wrote in message ... woke up from a long winter's nap and wrote: On Thurs, Mar 3 2005 11:04 pm, "Dee Flint" (calmed down from a previous hissy fit) jumped into a so-called conversation and shouted out: "Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message . .. wrote in oups.com: [snip] Are there thousands of hams that could pass the General or Extra theory trapped above 30 MHz? Yes. There are no hams "trapped above 30Mhz. Riiiiight, Mama Dee. Nobody is trapped. No-coders are NOBODIES. :-) Incorrect, grizzled ancient one. No coders have the same opportunity to pass the piddling, easy 5 wpm code test as anyone else. :-) :-) Riiiight, Dee, the "only" purpose of HF is "to work DX with CW." :-) Nobody is peddling that claim except for you and you aren't involved with DX or CW. Fortunately I only see Len's idiotic comments when someone replies to them. Notice how he has inserted material that wasn't even there. I've worked plenty of non-DX stations on HF. He ignores the fact that the same propagation principles apply to domestic and international communications. I am also amazed at how he keeps flattering me by using the term "Mama Dee", since this is the most important job in the world for any woman with children. He probably intends for it to be derogatory but has failed miserably in that regard. They may not stick with it until conditions improve since they won't have the skills to participate in the second most used mode of shortwave communications. Wow, all that struggle just to be "second best!" Such "incentive!" Gots to "work DX on HF with CW." On "shortwave!" Those of us who care to will. How are you involved? Notice how he cannot distiguish between 2nd best and 2nd most used. These two phrases have entirely different meanings. BTW, the rest of the radio world uses the term "shortwave" to refer to small wavelengths measured in centimeters. That's simply incorrect. The term has been defined and understood for many, many decades. If some Johnny-come-lately wants to act as if he has just invented the terms "shortwave" or "wireless" let him join you in looking like a complete boob. It's in all the trade magazines. Oops, I forgot. Real hams don't read industry trades. The only approved publications about radio come from the ARRL. Real hams may read anything they choose and even a non-ham like yourself may look at QST. Work, struggle with all one's might to become "second best." :-) Mediocre is the word. You whine and whine over a measly five wpm morse code test and you dare write of mediocrity? :-) :-) Again he is totally fuzzy on the difference between 2nd best and 2nd most used. Or, to keep the "CW" bandplan open as an olde-tymer's playground/sandbox to keep their righteousnesses happy. "Real" radio operators do "CW." All important, vital, necessities, righteous. Get and keep federal LAW to TEST all hobbyists operating below 30 MHz or the sky will fall! Seems as if you're really swinging from the chandelier today, Leonard. Dave K8MN Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
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#9
March 6th 05, 03:23 AM
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Dee Flint wrote:
"Dave Heil" wrote in message ... woke up from a long winter's nap and wrote: On Thurs, Mar 3 2005 11:04 pm, "Dee Flint" (calmed down from a previous hissy fit) jumped into a so-called conversation and shouted out: "Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message . .. wrote in oups.com: [snip] Are there thousands of hams that could pass the General or Extra theory trapped above 30 MHz? Yes. There are no hams "trapped above 30Mhz. Riiiiight, Mama Dee. Nobody is trapped. No-coders are NOBODIES. :-) Incorrect, grizzled ancient one. No coders have the same opportunity to pass the piddling, easy 5 wpm code test as anyone else. :-) :-) Riiiight, Dee, the "only" purpose of HF is "to work DX with CW." :-) Nobody is peddling that claim except for you and you aren't involved with DX or CW. Fortunately I only see Len's idiotic comments when someone replies to them. That's likely a good thing. Notice how he has inserted material that wasn't even there. That happens frequently. He often goes off on a diversionary rant. I've worked plenty of non-DX stations on HF. Same here--domestic rag chews, section nets, contests. Plenty of them were done using modes other than CW too. He ignores the fact that the same propagation principles apply to domestic and international communications. It doesn't suit his agenda. I am also amazed at how he keeps flattering me by using the term "Mama Dee", since this is the most important job in the world for any woman with children. He probably intends for it to be derogatory but has failed miserably in that regard. Len finds it quite difficult to use someone's given name. They may not stick with it until conditions improve since they won't have the skills to participate in the second most used mode of shortwave communications. Wow, all that struggle just to be "second best!" Such "incentive!" Gots to "work DX on HF with CW." On "shortwave!" Those of us who care to will. How are you involved? Notice how he cannot distiguish between 2nd best and 2nd most used. These two phrases have entirely different meanings. Again, it doesn't suit his agenda. BTW, the rest of the radio world uses the term "shortwave" to refer to small wavelengths measured in centimeters. That's simply incorrect. The term has been defined and understood for many, many decades. If some Johnny-come-lately wants to act as if he has just invented the terms "shortwave" or "wireless" let him join you in looking like a complete boob. It's in all the trade magazines. Oops, I forgot. Real hams don't read industry trades. The only approved publications about radio come from the ARRL. Real hams may read anything they choose and even a non-ham like yourself may look at QST. Work, struggle with all one's might to become "second best." :-) Mediocre is the word. You whine and whine over a measly five wpm morse code test and you dare write of mediocrity? :-) :-) Again he is totally fuzzy on the difference between 2nd best and 2nd most used. Len really doesn't believe that morse code comes in second in either category. It wouldn't appear that whatever he believes has effected radio amateurs at all. He isn't involved. Dave K8MN |
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#10
March 6th 05, 01:49 PM
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Dee Flint wrote: "Dave Heil" wrote in message ... woke up from a long winter's nap and wrote: On Thurs, Mar 3 2005 11:04 pm, "Dee Flint" (calmed down from a previous hissy fit) jumped into a so-called conversation and shouted out: "Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message . .. wrote in oups.com: [snip] Are there thousands of hams that could pass the General or Extra theory trapped above 30 MHz? Yes. There are no hams "trapped above 30Mhz. Riiiiight, Mama Dee. Nobody is trapped. No-coders are NOBODIES. Incorrect, grizzled ancient one. No coders have the same opportunity to pass the piddling, easy 5 wpm code test as anyone else. Even the unlicensed have the same oppotunities...It's just that SOME of them don't ahve the cajones to take the test...Mostly becasue it's illegal to take the test open-book. Lennie couldn't do it otherwise. He keeps making significant error-of-fact even when he has plenty of opportunity to "get it right" before he posts in here...pity that! Riiiight, Dee, the "only" purpose of HF is "to work DX with CW." Nobody is peddling that claim except for you and you aren't involved with DX or CW. Fortunately I only see Len's idiotic comments when someone replies to them. Notice how he has inserted material that wasn't even there. I've worked plenty of non-DX stations on HF. He ignores the fact that the same propagation principles apply to domestic and international communications. Ironic that Lennie claims that he's such a brilliant engineer. Lot's of NON engineer types have some very enviable "DX" records never operating below 144MHz, let alone on 50MHz. Quite a few DXCC's awarded for VHF operations. THAT takes skill...perseverence...knowledge...determination. In other words...characteristics Lennie lacks. I am also amazed at how he keeps flattering me by using the term "Mama Dee", since this is the most important job in the world for any woman with children. He probably intends for it to be derogatory but has failed miserably in that regard. You'll fogive Lennie's mock-derogatory attack on your gender, Dee. Lennie's own female significant other wouldn't favor him with offspring, hence most of his angst vis-a-vis women, and I assume his misdirected attack on pre-teen licensure in Amateur Radio (no practical experience in child development). He even digs in pretty deep on Kim who's own position on many issues actually parallels his own. Ya gots ta wonder why he would publically slap around a potential ally. They may not stick with it until conditions improve since they won't have the skills to participate in the second most used mode of shortwave communications. Wow, all that struggle just to be "second best!" Such "incentive!" Gots to "work DX on HF with CW." On "shortwave!" Those of us who care to will. How are you involved? Notice how he cannot distiguish between 2nd best and 2nd most used. These two phrases have entirely different meanings. Lennie has a LOT of trouble distinguishing between a LOT of things, Dee... Like "truth" and "mistruth". They are interchangeable in Lennie's world. And if he were a licensed Amateur, Lennie would know how much significantly more challenging it is to obtain a DXCC above 50MHz than below it. Makes those who do it a lot more remarkable in my book... BTW, the rest of the radio world uses the term "shortwave" to refer to small wavelengths measured in centimeters. That's simply incorrect. The term has been defined and understood for many, many decades. If some Johnny-come-lately wants to act as if he has just invented the terms "shortwave" or "wireless" let him join you in looking like a complete boob. It's in all the trade magazines. Oops, I forgot. Real hams don't read industry trades. The only approved publications about radio come from the ARRL. Real hams may read anything they choose and even a non-ham like yourself may look at QST. Work, struggle with all one's might to become "second best." Mediocre is the word. You whine and whine over a measly five wpm morse code test and you dare write of mediocrity? Again he is totally fuzzy on the difference between 2nd best and 2nd most used. Mediocrity kept Lennie away from at least one "aerospace" job I know of. No doubt it kept him from others too. But he DID "have his hands in" several "aerospace" jobs...No doubt some of the early Vanguard missions and at least one Space Shuttle mission. Or, to keep the "CW" bandplan open as an olde-tymer's playground/sandbox to keep their righteousnesses happy. "Real" radio operators do "CW." All important, vital, necessities, righteous. Get and keep federal LAW to TEST all hobbyists operating below 30 MHz or the sky will fall! Seems as if you're really swinging from the chandelier today, Leonard. Ironic then that the ONLY "CW bandplan" is in V/UHF spectrum, huh...?!?! (Lennie and Brain call me "nuts", but then they keep making assinine assertions in the face of well known, publically accepted standards to the contrary of thier "understanding" of things...Sheeeeesh...) 73 Steve, K4YZ |
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