robert casey wrote:

N2EY wrote:

What if their minds *have* changed? Perhaps they have looked at the
arguments
provided by pro-code-test folks, and at the results of the
reduction/elimination
of code testing in the USA and other countries, and have concluded
that
Element 1 is no big deal. Maybe they've even concluded that it
*does*
serve a useful,
regulatory purpose!

The FCC noted that there's been no noticeable increase in
violations in HF since they let 5wpm'ers loose on it back
in 2000. Trouble spots like 14.313 predate that by many
years. So 13 or 20wpm doesn't serve a regulatory purpose, and
the FCC isn't in the business of handing out "gold star"
awards.

No, they're not.

But they ARE in the business of making sure that thier rules meet
the test of the enabling regulations.

Part 97.1 establishes the Basis and Purpose of the Amateur Radio
Service. The B&P continues to establish an expectation of self
training and communications skills that prepare the licensee to meet
the needs of the B & P.

So...Until Part 97 is altered per process otherwise, Morse Code is
still required for access to HF allocations.

And as Jim noted, so far, the overwhelming opinion of those who
have cared to express an opinion is "Morse Code skills are
needed"...Even if Lennie says they aren't...

73

Steve, K4YZ

K4YZ wrote:
robert casey wrote:

N2EY wrote:

What if their minds *have* changed? Perhaps they have looked at
the
arguments
provided by pro-code-test folks, and at the results of the
reduction/elimination
of code testing in the USA and other countries, and have
concluded
that
Element 1 is no big deal. Maybe they've even concluded that it
*does*
serve a useful,
regulatory purpose!

The FCC noted that there's been no noticeable increase in
violations in HF since they let 5wpm'ers loose on it back
in 2000. Trouble spots like 14.313 predate that by many
years. So 13 or 20wpm doesn't serve a regulatory purpose, and
the FCC isn't in the business of handing out "gold star"
awards.

No, they're not.

Nor merit badges. The Amateur Radio Service is not the Boy Scouts.
The FCC is not BSA Headquarters.

But they ARE in the business of making sure that thier rules
meet
the test of the enabling regulations.

They should start with the "rule" requiring a Morse Code Exam at 5WPM
refer to another "rule" defining Morse Code and how to derive a 5WPM
rate. Then then need to explain how a 13-15WPM character rate can be
legal for a 5WPM exam. Or not.

Part 97.1 establishes the Basis and Purpose of the Amateur Radio
Service. The B&P continues to establish an expectation of self
training and communications skills that prepare the licensee to meet
the needs of the B & P.

The Basis and Purpose does not specify your favorite mode as the one,
true path to rightiousness.

So...Until Part 97 is altered per process otherwise, Morse Code
is
still required for access to HF allocations.

5WPM. Not the 13-15WPM exam currently administered by the ARRL and
W5YI VECs.

And as Jim noted, so far, the overwhelming opinion of those who
have cared to express an opinion is "Morse Code skills are
needed"...Even if Lennie says they aren't...

73

Steve, K4YZ

Then Jim and his commenting cronies march to the beat of a different
drummer. The ARRL's scientific survey of 1998 said that there was no
clear concensus. Since then the ITU has eliminated the requirement for
a Morse Code Exam for HF access.

"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...


5WPM. Not the 13-15WPM exam currently administered by the ARRL and
W5YI VECs.


There are only 5 words sent in each minute of time. There are no tests
being administered at this time in the ARS where more than 5 words are sent
in one minutes time.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

5WPM. Not the 13-15WPM exam currently administered by the ARRL and
W5YI VECs.



There are only 5 words sent in each minute of time. There are no tests
being administered at this time in the ARS where more than 5 words are sent
in one minutes time.


Farnsworth method. 13wpm characters sent at 5wpm spacing.
Supposedly you start newbies like this and soon they can
handle faster code than if you used slow 5wpm characters to start.

Brian Burke wrote on Thurs, Mar 3 2005 7:06 pm concerning the Avenging
Angle's further adventures in "waste of time":

K4YZ wrote:
robert casey wrote:
N2EY wrote:

What if their minds *have* changed? Perhaps they have looked at
the arguments
provided by pro-code-test folks, and at the results of the
reduction/elimination
of code testing in the USA and other countries, and have
concluded that
Element 1 is no big deal. Maybe they've even concluded that it
*does*
serve a useful, regulatory purpose!

The FCC noted that there's been no noticeable increase in
violations in HF since they let 5wpm'ers loose on it back
in 2000. Trouble spots like 14.313 predate that by many
years. So 13 or 20wpm doesn't serve a regulatory purpose, and
the FCC isn't in the business of handing out "gold star"
awards.

No, they're not.

Nor merit badges. The Amateur Radio Service is not the Boy Scouts.
The FCC is not BSA Headquarters.

Guess who used to remark that Boy Scout leaders are pedophiles?
:-)

Can't have any pedophiles in ham radio, no sir! All hams must be
white males of deeply-rooted conservative everything rigidly
preserving the traditions, standards, and practices of the 1930s.

But they ARE in the business of making sure that thier rules
meet
the test of the enabling regulations.

They should start with the "rule" requiring a Morse Code Exam at 5WPM
refer to another "rule" defining Morse Code and how to derive a 5WPM
rate. Then then need to explain how a 13-15WPM character rate can be
legal for a 5WPM exam. Or not.

I rather think that the FCC (that all-powerful adjunct secondary to
the real leader of American ham radio, ARRL) cares much about
a bunch of amateurs fooling around in a hobby activity. It's been
nearly two years since the first of those 18 petitions arrived at
the
FCC and the conservative-traditionalists mounted much cross-fire
to those nasty radicals wanting dirty, rotten change (hack, ptui)
from divine, blessed, noble olde-tyme regulations. Code MUST
stay! It is "right!" :-)

[both guys at the FCC prolly threw up their hands and pigeon-
holed all 18 while they concentrated on other things in their
apprenticeship duties there]

Part 97.1 establishes the Basis and Purpose of the Amateur
Radio
Service. The B&P continues to establish an expectation of self
training and communications skills that prepare the licensee to meet
the needs of the B & P.

The Basis and Purpose does not specify your favorite mode as the one,
true path to rightiousness.

Avengining Angle is a PCTA extra! He always Right, never wrong.

So...Until Part 97 is altered per process otherwise, Morse Code
is
still required for access to HF allocations.

5WPM. Not the 13-15WPM exam currently administered by the ARRL and
W5YI VECs.

Irrelevant to the PCTA extras. Code test IS THE LAW!

[no one, repeat no one, is allowed to change the law!]


And as Jim noted, so far, the overwhelming opinion of those who
have cared to express an opinion is "Morse Code skills are
needed"...Even if Lennie says they aren't...

Then Jim and his commenting cronies march to the beat of a different
drummer.

The Avenging Angle marches to an even stranger drummer...
he thinks I'm here and commenting, saying things even when
I'm not. Weird. He wired. Wired up differntly than others, always
in overload conditions, no fusing. Tsk. [I been off for several
days]

Jimmy Who and cronies have had their craniums dutifully
washed years ago, thinking that morsemanship is a vital,
needed skill to "operate" any radio on HF or below. They had
to take a morse test so EVERYONE has to take a morse
test forever and ever to be allowed in a hobby activity.

The ARRL's scientific survey of 1998 said that there was no
clear concensus. Since then the ITU has eliminated the requirement
for
a Morse Code Exam for HF access.

ARRL's only "science" is that of trying (vainly) to get more
members and to keep the Hq staff on the payroll by selling
lots of ham publications. Their publishing business is still
working well but the membership numbers are rather
stagnant at old numbers.

The ITU-R overhauled and revised nearly ALL of S25 at
WRC-03. One revision allowed individual administrations
the option of keeping their code tests or eliminating them.
The mandatory requirement of a code test for privileges
below 30 MHz was removed, but the OPTION remains.
There's no "necessity" of any logical or legislative kind
to keep the code test in U.S. regulations except in the
fantasies of olde-tyme conservative traditionalist hammes
who psychologically need the rank/status/titles of high-
rate code-tested extra to show they are "better" than
others. They need federal subsidies for the righteousness,
all at the expense of newcomers who aren't coming in
under their shining glory of ham greatness.

wrote:
Brian Burke wrote on Thurs, Mar 3 2005 7:06 pm concerning the
Avenging
Angle's further adventures in "waste of time":

Speaking of a waste of time.....

The FCC noted that there's been no noticeable increase in
violations in HF since they let 5wpm'ers loose on it back
in 2000. Trouble spots like 14.313 predate that by many
years. So 13 or 20wpm doesn't serve a regulatory purpose, and
the FCC isn't in the business of handing out "gold star"
awards.

No, they're not.

Nor merit badges. The Amateur Radio Service is not the Boy Scouts.
The FCC is not BSA Headquarters.

Guess who used to remark that Boy Scout leaders are pedophiles?

Who? I suggested ONE person may be.

YOUR statement suggests "all".

Wasn't me.

Can't have any pedophiles in ham radio, no sir! All hams must be
white males of deeply-rooted conservative everything rigidly
preserving the traditions, standards, and practices of the 1930s.

Oh...I see...And YOU think it's OK to have pedophiles in Amateur
Radio...In ANY avocation...?!?!

(BTW...Pedophiles come in all races, genders ages and faiths,
Lennie)

But they ARE in the business of making sure that thier rules
meet
the test of the enabling regulations.

They should start with the "rule" requiring a Morse Code Exam at
5WPM
refer to another "rule" defining Morse Code and how to derive a 5WPM
rate. Then then need to explain how a 13-15WPM character rate can
be
legal for a 5WPM exam. Or not.

I rather think that the FCC (that all-powerful adjunct secondary
to
the real leader of American ham radio, ARRL) cares much about
a bunch of amateurs fooling around in a hobby activity. It's been
nearly two years since the first of those 18 petitions arrived at
the FCC and the conservative-traditionalists mounted much
cross-fire
to those nasty radicals wanting dirty, rotten change (hack, ptui)
from divine, blessed, noble olde-tyme regulations. Code MUST
stay! It is "right!"

I see.

You have a problem with "majority rules". Just like the
"insurgents" in Iraq who are scared to death, not of American military
might, but of the piece of pater in the ballot box.

You HAVE demonstrated cowardly characteristics...This just
confirms it.

Part 97.1 establishes the Basis and Purpose of the Amateur
Radio
Service. The B&P continues to establish an expectation of self
training and communications skills that prepare the licensee to
meet
the needs of the B & P.

The Basis and Purpose does not specify your favorite mode as the
one,
true path to rightiousness.

Avengining Angle is a PCTA extra! He always Right, never wrong.

Who is "Avenging Angle"...???

Please comment on the statement made...What part of it, vis-a-vis
the B & P of Part 97 is inaccurate?

So...Until Part 97 is altered per process otherwise, Morse
Code
is
still required for access to HF allocations.

5WPM. Not the 13-15WPM exam currently administered by the ARRL and
W5YI VECs.

Neither the ARRL nor W5YI administers a 13-15 WPM test.

Irrelevant to the PCTA extras. Code test IS THE LAW!

The code test IS the law. What part of that don't you understand,
Lennie?

And it's not what "PCTA extras" say...it's what your unlicensed
commissioners at the FCC say...

YOU, after all, are the one who constantly reminds us of that.
Why is it now problematic for you?

[no one, repeat no one, is allowed to change the law!]

Sure they are.

But so far it hasn't happened.

And as Jim noted, so far, the overwhelming opinion of those
who
have cared to express an opinion is "Morse Code skills are
needed"...Even if Lennie says they aren't...

Then Jim and his commenting cronies march to the beat of a different
drummer.

The Avenging Angle marches to an even stranger drummer...
he thinks I'm here and commenting, saying things even when
I'm not. Weird. He wired. Wired up differntly than others,
always
in overload conditions, no fusing. Tsk. [I been off for several
days]

Who is "Avenging Angle"...?!?!

And you HAVE stated Morse COde skills are not needed.

Have you not?

Jimmy Who and cronies have had their craniums dutifully
washed years ago, thinking that morsemanship is a vital,
needed skill to "operate" any radio on HF or below. They had
to take a morse test so EVERYONE has to take a morse
test forever and ever to be allowed in a hobby activity.

Who is "Jimmy Who"...???

The ARRL's scientific survey of 1998 said that there was no
clear concensus. Since then the ITU has eliminated the requirement
for
a Morse Code Exam for HF access.

ARRL's only "science" is that of trying (vainly) to get more
members and to keep the Hq staff on the payroll by selling
lots of ham publications. Their publishing business is still
working well but the membership numbers are rather
stagnant at old numbers.

The ITU-R overhauled and revised nearly ALL of S25 at
WRC-03. One revision allowed individual administrations
the option of keeping their code tests or eliminating them.
The mandatory requirement of a code test for privileges
below 30 MHz was removed, but the OPTION remains.
There's no "necessity" of any logical or legislative kind
to keep the code test in U.S. regulations except in the
fantasies of olde-tyme conservative traditionalist hammes
who psychologically need the rank/status/titles of high-
rate code-tested extra to show they are "better" than
others. They need federal subsidies for the righteousness,
all at the expense of newcomers who aren't coming in
under their shining glory of ham greatness.

Lennie, you have once again DISproven your own assertions of who
attacks who rather than discusses "subjects".

Thanks.

Putz.

Steve, K4YZ

"Cry Baby K4YZ" whined in message

Lennie, you have once again DISproven your own assertions of who
attacks who rather than discusses "subjects".

Thanks.

Putz.

Steve, K4YZ


Oh wissen to wittle cwy baby thievie cwy cwy cwy. He always
wants the wast word. Cwy cwy cwy, that is all thievie does.
Little thieve always wants the wast word.

wrote:

Brian Burke wrote on Thurs, Mar 3 2005 7:06 pm concerning the Avenging
Angle's further adventures in "waste of time":

K4YZ wrote:
robert casey wrote:
N2EY wrote:

Nor merit badges. The Amateur Radio Service is not the Boy Scouts.
The FCC is not BSA Headquarters.

Guess who used to remark that Boy Scout leaders are pedophiles?
:-)

Can't have any pedophiles in ham radio, no sir!

Can you clear this up for us, Leonard? Are you actually FOR pedophiles
in amateur radio or anywhere else?

All hams must be
white males of deeply-rooted conservative everything rigidly
preserving the traditions, standards, and practices of the 1930s.

There are hams of different races, genders, political philosophies and
economic backgrounds. You aren't among them.

But they ARE in the business of making sure that thier rules
meet
the test of the enabling regulations.

They should start with the "rule" requiring a Morse Code Exam at 5WPM
refer to another "rule" defining Morse Code and how to derive a 5WPM
rate. Then then need to explain how a 13-15WPM character rate can be
legal for a 5WPM exam. Or not.

I rather think that the FCC (that all-powerful adjunct secondary to
the real leader of American ham radio, ARRL) cares much about
a bunch of amateurs fooling around in a hobby activity.

The FCC is an agency. An agency doesn't think. There are people
employed in it who do that. I'm pleased that you believe the FCC cares
about radio amateurs though.

It's been
nearly two years since the first of those 18 petitions arrived at
the
FCC and the conservative-traditionalists mounted much cross-fire
to those nasty radicals wanting dirty, rotten change (hack, ptui)
from divine, blessed, noble olde-tyme regulations. Code MUST
stay! It is "right!" :-)

You've really worked yourself into a froth today, old timer. Too much
caffeine?

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:

It's been
nearly two years since the first of those 18 petitions arrived
at
the
FCC and the conservative-traditionalists mounted much cross-fire
to those nasty radicals wanting dirty, rotten change (hack,
ptui)
from divine, blessed, noble olde-tyme regulations. Code MUST
stay! It is "right!" :-)

You've really worked yourself into a froth today, old timer. Too
much
caffeine?

More probably a lack of Geritol, Dave...Ot too much? Does it
matter? He's a putz either way.

73

Steve, K4YZ

K4YZ wrote:

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:

It's been
nearly two years since the first of those 18 petitions arrived
at
the
FCC and the conservative-traditionalists mounted much cross-fire
to those nasty radicals wanting dirty, rotten change (hack,
ptui)
from divine, blessed, noble olde-tyme regulations. Code MUST
stay! It is "right!" :-)

You've really worked yourself into a froth today, old timer. Too
much
caffeine?

More probably a lack of Geritol, Dave...Ot too much? Does it
matter? He's a putz either way.

These demented rants of his grow more strange by the week. His factual
errors are numerous. The legion of lurkers which he claimed would rise
to the defense of his ideas never materialized and he's irrelevant to
amateur radio in this country.

Leonard really needs a new cause.

Dave K8MN