"anon" wrote in message
...

Read the TRUTH about the deliberate Jew attack on the
USS Liberty at this website, which is operated by survivors of
the attack:

www.ussliberty.org


It was the Israelis that attacked the ship. Not the Jews. Many Jewish
people are not Israelis.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"That the attack was deliberate 'just wasn't a disputed issue' within
the National Security Agency"

=Former NSA/CIA Director retired Army Lieutenant General
William Odom on 3 March 2003 in an interview for Naval
Institute Proceedings.

www.ussliberty.org

"That the Liberty could have been mistaken for the Egyptian
supply ship El Quseir is unbelievable."

=Special Assistant to the President Clark Clifford, in his report
to President Lyndon Johnson.


www.ussliberty.org

"I can tell you for an absolute certainty (from intercepted communications)
that the Israelis knew they were attacking an American ship."

=NSA Deputy Director Oliver Kirby


www.ussliberty.org

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"anon" wrote in message
...

Read the TRUTH about the deliberate Jew attack on the
USS Liberty at this website, which is operated by survivors of
the attack:

www.ussliberty.org


It was the Israelis that attacked the ship. Not the Jews. Many Jewish
people are not Israelis.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


Tell that to the surviving family members of the American
sailors deliberately killed by the Jews. Which bullets were
Jew and which were Israeli?

"Never before in the history of the United States Navy has a
Navy Board of Inquiry ignored the testimony of American
military eyewitnesses and taken, on faith, the word of their
attackers."

=Captain Richard F. Kiepfer, Medical Corps, U.S. Navy,
Retired, USS Liberty Survivor.


www.ussliberty.org

"Len" wrote in message
...

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"anon" wrote in message
...

Read the TRUTH about the deliberate Jew attack on the
USS Liberty at this website, which is operated by survivors of
the attack:

www.ussliberty.org


It was the Israelis that attacked the ship. Not the Jews. Many Jewish
people are not Israelis.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


Tell that to the surviving family members of the American
sailors deliberately killed by the Jews. Which bullets were
Jew and which were Israeli?



By your approach, all the Jews in the world should be brought to account for
that event rather than the country of Israel. It is your type of thinking
that perpetuates discrimination. The fault was with the Israeli government
and military not the Jewish people. There are Jewish people in many nations
of the world, including the US, and there were not responsible for this
attack. It would be just as silly and wrong to say that the Christians,
rather than the United States, overthrew the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"Len" wrote in message
...

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"anon" wrote in message
...

Read the TRUTH about the deliberate Jew attack on the
USS Liberty at this website, which is operated by survivors of
the attack:

www.ussliberty.org


It was the Israelis that attacked the ship. Not the Jews. Many Jewish
people are not Israelis.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


Tell that to the surviving family members of the American
sailors deliberately killed by the Jews. Which bullets were
Jew and which were Israeli?



By your approach, all the Jews in the world should be brought to account
for that event rather than the country of Israel. It is your type of
thinking that perpetuates discrimination. The fault was with the Israeli
government and military not the Jewish people. There are Jewish people in
many nations of the world, including the US, and there were not
responsible for this attack. It would be just as silly and wrong to say
that the Christians, rather than the United States, overthrew the Taliban
in Afghanistan.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


Like I said, go tell your theories to the surviving family members of the
innocent American sailors. Another clueless idiot shoots their
clueless mouth off.

"Ron" wrote in message
...

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"Len" wrote in message
...

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"anon" wrote in message
...

Read the TRUTH about the deliberate Jew attack on the
USS Liberty at this website, which is operated by survivors of
the attack:

www.ussliberty.org


It was the Israelis that attacked the ship. Not the Jews. Many Jewish
people are not Israelis.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


Tell that to the surviving family members of the American
sailors deliberately killed by the Jews. Which bullets were
Jew and which were Israeli?



By your approach, all the Jews in the world should be brought to account
for that event rather than the country of Israel. It is your type of
thinking that perpetuates discrimination. The fault was with the Israeli
government and military not the Jewish people. There are Jewish people
in many nations of the world, including the US, and there were not
responsible for this attack. It would be just as silly and wrong to say
that the Christians, rather than the United States, overthrew the Taliban
in Afghanistan.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


Like I said, go tell your theories to the surviving family members of the
innocent American sailors. Another clueless idiot shoots their
clueless mouth off.


No you are the clueless idiot. For if you insist on using the term Jew
instead of Israeli, then you believe that the Jewish people here in the US
are responsible. If you insist on using the term Jew instead of Israeli,
you are saying that the Israelis who are Christians are innocent simply
because they are Christians.

The attack was wrong. There is no doubt about that.

And are you saying that the USS Liberty had NO Jewish members of her crew?
It's a large enough ship that the odds would indicate that some of the US
crew probably was Jewish. Who knows, perhaps even some of the fatalities
were Jewish Americans?

Are you saying that there are NO Christians or people of other
religious/cultural beliefs in the Israeli population, the Israeli
government, or Israeli military?

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

wrote:
wrote:

And, mister wizard, you REWROTE what Robeson wrote.

Not me. You must be thinking of someone else.

"Sorry, Hans, MARS IS amateur radio."

That's not what I wrote.

That IS what I wrote and what Brain has vainly attempted to use as
some messaging point out of context, but that's OK.

In NO way did Pstevie write what YOU say he wrote.

What did I say he wrote?

In NO way did Pstevie's single sentence say what
you IMPLY it did. He is NOT "correct."


You're misquoting all over the place, Len. But it doesn't matter.
Here,
I'll clear it up:

MARS and amateur radio aren't the same thing. But many radio amateurs
are involved in MARS.

As a matter of fact, most MARS operatives are licensed Amateur
Radio operators who are civilians. A few are members of the uniformed
Armed Forces of the United States who are also licensee, and
participate in MARS independent of their duties in the Armed Forces.
The remainder are either uniformed mmebers assigned to work in post
stations or are DoD civilians who run the program.

But the FACT remains that under current regulations and staffing
requirements, without Amateur Radio, there would be NO MARS programs.

Period.

MARS always was and remains a MILITARY radio system.

But most of the participants aren't in the military.

How do YOU know?

I have sources, Len.

Like CQ....QST...The MARS programs themselves...

Haw, that's funny. Len, you pretty much come unglued at the
slightest
opposition to your cherished statements, or when
someone refuses to feed your insult machine.

"Insult machine?"

Yes, that's right. It's what you're all about here.

Now he has Todd and Brian as "Affiliates".

Jimmie Noserve wants the exclusive use of that "machine?"

Do you feel insulted by my posts, Len? It seems so - you seem to find
insult in everything.

Oh, yes, that ties right in with a Canadian museum
having morse code in its window...sure...

Those windows really seem to bother you.

If you ain't got the guts to
tell the details, you AIN'T done it. Simple as that.

Then you must think that Brian Burke, N0IMD-allegedly-
/T5, "ain't done
it", because he won't give any details about his amateur radio
operation in Somalia.

Then you must be as nuts as Psycho Pstevie. Tsk.

Not me, Len. I'm not the one calling people names and telling them to
shut up. You are.

Pstevie pervertedly pejorated hisself at least a
couple orders of magnitude with his alleged
"poor repfit" of NADC on my visit there 34 years
ago...and is still trying (vainly) to rationalize
his LIE as some kind of "truth."

What has that to do with your claim that:

"If you ain't got the guts to tell the details, you AIN'T done it.
Simple as that."

That's what you wrote, Len. Does it only apply to Steve and not to
Brian.

I'm just showing what a damn LIAR he is.

What lie?

The claim he has made is that he found someone who knew you from when
you were allegedly at NADC. And that someone says you didn't do such
a
great job there.

Now maybe it's true and maybe it isn't. But it's basically your word
against that of some unknown person.

And me. Two to one so far.

But,
Pstevie is your BUDDIE and therefore can do NO
wrong.

That's not true at all.

Jim and I have never met save for here and one QSO on the air.

Jim and I have shared many opinions and we have disagreed on many.


Publically. Without name calling.

He is PCTA extra Double Standard class
and can therefore say ANYTHING he wants in
your complete approval.

Not true at all, Len, but you would rather claim so than to face the
facts.

Google archives prove otherwise, Lennie.

Orwell did a good job describing the subjective
reality mindset in his
classic "1984". You remind me of "Big Brother", Len,
in the way you
want to rewrite history to fit your mindset.

Pizz off, sweetie.

What's the matter, Len? Are you insulted? I'm simply
telling you how you appear in this newsgroup.

That was "Absolute Lennie".

And the analogy wa absolutely accurate.

If a person TALKS
about something, that isn't "proof" that they've
DONE it. :-)

Which applies to *you*, Len...

But...but...but...LENNIE!

This very week you've stated that if anyone had done something,
then they SHOULD brag about it.

Certainly YOU do a LOT of talking in this forum and precious little
corroboration of what you say. Some dubiously original by-lines in a
magazine that went belly-up while you were an "associate editor".

Psycho Pstevie still hasn't come up with a SINGLE
detail of "proof" on his insult of my "fitrep" at
NADC.

Nor have you proved him to be mistaken.

And if K4YZ really did participate in seven hostile actions,
then it happened regardless of whether details are given or
not.

HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT IS TRUTH?

It's basic logic, Len. If K4YZ really did participate in seven
hostile
actions, then it happened regardless of whether details are given or
not. That's objective reality.

Let him wallow in his doubts, Jim. Nobody could have done
anything before or better than he, ergo none of the things I did in the
Armed Forces could have happened! (chucklechucklesnortsnort...)

73

Steve, K4YZ

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:07:11 -0700, sam bicke wrote:

GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU SHOOT YOUR
IGNORANT UNINFORMED MOUTH OFF NEXT TIME!

I worked for the NSA at Fort Meade. He's a liar.

And I worked for the Israeli government in the COMMINT field before,
during, and after the Six Day War, and do know what happened.

More NSA cover-up. 'Nuff of this crap. I've broken the links.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

"Phil Kane" wrote in message
ganews.com...
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 03:20:15 GMT, Mel A. Nomah wrote:

Shameful is in the eye of the beholder. Captain Bucher was not punished
for
surrendering, just as the US didn't punish the Jews who attacked his
sister-ship, USS Liberty on a similar mission. Probably because then the
Navy would have needed to punish those who sent those ships in harms way
without proper means to defend themselves

As well as the NSA/USN brass who, when queried by the Israelis,
adamantly denied that the Liberty was a U S Naval vessel even after
being told that the vessel wiil be blown out of the water if it
wasn't a US Naval vessel. The Israelis had every reason to believe
that the Egyptians or their mentors, the Soviets, would fly the US
flag to avoid destruction if they could get away with it.

And the NSA kept denying...

--
73 de K2ASP / 4X4UQ - Phil Kane



"The evidence was clear, both Admiral Kidd and I believed with certainty
that this attack on the USS Liberty was a deliberate effort to sink an
American ship and murder its entire crew. It was our shared belief that the
attack could not possibly have been an accident. I am certain that the
Israeli pilots and their superiors were well aware that the ship was
American."

= Captain Ward Boston, JAGC, US Navy (retired), senior legal
cousel to the US Navy Court of Inquiry.

www.ussliberty.org

From: on Sun,Apr 17 2005 9:29 am

wrote:
From: on Sat,Apr 16 2005 8:44 am


How does that tie in with the use of morse code in
museum windows?

The same way your service at ADA ties in with amateur radio policy.

"My service at ADA" was NOT ever presented as any
form of "justification" about "amateur radio policy."

What I originally presented was factual information
based on personal experience in regards to USE OF
MORSE CODE by a large Army communications station.

Army station ADA (it still exists, by the way) USE OF
MORSE CODE MODE was nil, none, nada from 1953 onwards.

World War II ended in 1945.

Further, I stated that (based on Pacific Stars & Strips
published story of 1955) ADA relayed 220 thousand
messages a month in 1955. ADA (also known by the
TTY message identifier of "RUAP") was only the third
largest Army station in ACAN (Army Command and
Administrative Network). Such traffic operation took
place around the clock, every day ("24/7").

Further, I stated (correctly, from Army documents)
that the ONLY morse code operator training in the
1950s was for Field Radio Operator. Field Radio is
exemplified by operations of Regimental-level
AN/GRC-26 self-contained transmitter-receiver huts
on the bed of a 2 1/2 ton truck. "Angry-26s"
were in use at much lower traffic levels, by unit
command, and also used TTY much more than any morse
code...in Korea, in Japan, or anywhere else in the
Far East Command in the early 1950s. Field radio
did not normally communicate with Far East Command
Headquarters directly, but had the capability.
Such was never witnessed by myself, nor appeared
in any operations orders of the station.

The brunt of military messaging is done by the
(relatively, speaking in 1950s terms) high-speed
TTY that can carry message traffic 24/7. All of
that constituted the NORMAL means of logistical
communications...all of that necessary for troop
movements, shipping of supplies, operational
orders, etc., etc., etc. The total personnel
and installations in the Far East Command then
was akin to a small state, therefore the amount
of communications was quite large. At NO TIME
was any bank of morse code operators seen OR
KNOWN serving either the FEC Hq or Army Central
Command ("central" insofar as Japan). Did I
"know" all that? Yes. It was part of my duty
there to not only be at a part of the
communications station but to make trips to
nearby units. Do I have absolute proof of all
of it by referencible documents? No. Only some.
Am I "lying" in stating any of the above? No.
There is NO reason for me to "lie" about anything
there. There is no reason for N2JTV to say
anything about it, yet Gene was there at the same
time I was, the same station but on a different
operating team. [Gene doesn't access this group]

The gist of all that is that: MORSE CODE WAS NOT
IN USE FOR MAJOR COMMUNICATIONS TRAFFIC. Not in
The Far East Command at the time. That Command
included USAF and USN.

I've seen documents that stated the communications
plans from 1948 onwards would handle ALL normal
message traffic by TTY for the future. I do not
have such a document to "prove" it but can state
that, from 1953 onwards, it WAS TRUE by example,
by all operational orders between 1953 and 1956,
by various Army documents published since 1956,
by various Signal Corps photographs (none of
which show any morse code operators at work) in
the Far East Command.

Was there ANY morse code used in the U.S. military?
Of course. All in Battalion or smaller units for
field radio in the Army...on board ship in what
Hans Brakob describes as "small boys" such as
DDs (destroyers) or lesser-tonnage vessels. Morse
code skill was required by some airborne radio
units (ASW and the like) and for aircraft on long,
over-water flights...also for the (then) Distress
and Safety (international) frequencies shared by
everyone. I do not have any specific cites of
morse code use by SAC units of the 50s or 60s, but
TAC does not include it. Long over-water flights
my USAF military transports required morsemen on
board. What you have to understand is that the
cruiser or heavier class ships had carried RTTY
since first starting with that in 1940. That was
necessary to insure the secure "rotor machine"
encryption terminals (on-line or off-line capable)
for Command orders and responses. Regardless of
nit-picking on the names of such systems or their
absolute, exact nomenclature, their existance was
acknowledged in at least two civilian books first
published in the 1960s (David Kahn's "Codebreakers"
was on the NYT non-fiction bestseller list for
several months, a seminal text on history of
cryptography).

Morse code use in small-unit radio decreased and
decreased from the 1950s onward. All branches,
even the USCG. TTY rates jumped from 60 WPM to
100 WPM, then morphed into "data" in various
forms at rates up to 2400 WPM over HF radio links.
By 1978 the USAF (one of the remaining strong users
of HF) was shutting down HF as a spectrum component
in favor of the new satellite relay and
troposcatter, VHF and UHF (they'd had the 225-400
MHz "military aviation band" since shortly after
WW2). By then the sole use of morse code was
limited to emergency communications as a secondary.
It MAY have been used for ALERT messaging of
submarines but another (with actual experience of
such communications) will have to give details.
By the 1980s, the ALERT messaging to boomers and
sharks was done by some form of encrypted DATA.
As to the SAC messaging on "oil burner routes" or
otherwise on loitering flights, I can't comment
on those formats or content other than to say
morse code was NOT used for those.

So, there has been a lessening NEED for any
"trained morsemen" in the U.S. military over the
past HALF CENTURY. It has VANISHED for use in
actual communications in the military...since
the International Distress and Safesty system
was implemented a few years ago worldwide, the
USCG has stopped monitoring 500 KHz. The military
has had MILLIONS of U.S. citizens in service in
all that time, still has a million-plus serving.
Morse code use in the military is limited solely
to INTELLIGENCE INTERCEPTS (one-way, "silent
listening").

GONE is the NEED for "trained morsemen" of any
kind by the United States government. There is
NO NEED of any sort of "trained pool" of such
morsemen for the national use. That lessening
began about 57 years ago although it was already
happening during WW2 when HF commercial SSB was
carrying TTY messaging to Europe and Asia.

What is left is a lot of daydreaming by amateurs
based on myths begun in WW2 of glorious use of
morse "in battle zones" or as the valiant radio
operators of B-17s and B-24s (actually more
gunners than radio operators) and "fighting men"
in ship radio rooms, etc. Generations of day-
dreaming amateurs passed them on to succeeding
generations until the mythos became almost
palpable. The only radio service in the USA
that requires morsemanship skills is Amateur
Radio Service and that ONLY for privileges below
30 MHz.

When it comes to "handling traffic" on HF, *NO*
amateur radio group or net can come even close
to the amount handled by the third-largest radio
communications station of the Army did a half
century ago. Not even if you use mulltipliers
to make up for the (usually specious) claim that
amateurs "use only their own purchased equipment."
Further, amateurs do NOT do it 24/7 for months
on end, "CW" or not.

You are getting very tiresome on this petulant
complaint about one other radio activity on
HF or bitching about someone who was there.
Put an end to it. All your petulant whining
about the glory and efficacy of morse code is
of NO value in the whole wide world of radio
communications today. All you have left is the
mythology of "greatness in morsemanship" to
rationalize keeping the morse code test for a
HOBBY use of radio by amateur radio hobbyists.

From: on Sun,Apr 17 2005 9:29 am

wrote:
From: on Sat,Apr 16 2005 8:44 am


You're misquoting all over the place, Len. But it doesn't matter.
Here,
I'll clear it up:

This is NOT a court of law and "exactness" of quoting
is NOT required...except by those who live for the
pitiful "word battle" and self-glorification.

MARS and amateur radio aren't the same thing. But many radio amateurs
are involved in MARS.

The MILITARY Affiliate Radio System is DIRECTED by the
Department of Defense. They function quite well by
sole use of military personnel. See the links to the
actual words of the DoD DIRECTIVE posted in here...see
the links to several of the "Grecian Firebolt" radio
exercises posted in here.

That's my position. If Steve says different, argue with *him*.

Considering that James P. Miccolis is a "good buddie"
of that wonderful representative of a modern U.S.
Amateur Extra, that is a specious comment of yours. :-)
You HAVE supported him in the recent past and not long
ago disavowed any attempt to control his emotional
outbursts.

MARS always was and remains a MILITARY radio system.

But most of the participants aren't in the military.

How do YOU know?

I have sources, Len.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. That is acceptible ONLY to reputable
journalistic practice. YOU are NOT a "reputable
journalist." You do NOT have the qualifications.
You are NOT INVOLVED in journalism. :-)


Do you feel insulted by my posts, Len? It seems so - you seem to find
insult in everything.

Not me. You are the one with daydreaming about the
"need" of morsemanship in amateur radio licensing
test.

Oh, yes, that ties right in with a Canadian museum
having morse code in its window...sure...

Those windows really seem to bother you.

? I wash windows. I like Microsoft windows.

What "bothers" me is that a NON-SERVUNG (EVER) person
tried to make out like he was the "expert" on the
United States military use of radio.

You are NOT QUALIFIED for such a judgement. shrug


What has that to do with your claim that:

"If you ain't got the guts to tell the details, you AIN'T done it.
Simple as that."

That's what you wrote, Len. Does it only apply to Steve and not to
Brian.

Simple. Brian has NOT insulted me personally, not even
many times over. Robeson HAS and continues to do it.

I'm just showing what a damn LIAR he is.

What lie?

The claim he has made is that he found someone who knew you from when
you were allegedly at NADC. And that someone says you didn't do such a
great job there.

That's the LIE you are referring to.

Why do you say "allegedly" there? If you don't believe I
was there (I was), then Robeson's claim is irrelevant.
Why do you feel you are INVOLVED with Robeson?
You've already disavowed any capability of controlling
his emotional tantrums in here.

Now maybe it's true and maybe it isn't. But it's basically your word
against that of some unknown person.

IMAGINARY person.

I can't "disprove" something that doesn't exist.

If you wish a reference to the fact that I WAS at NADC
or that I worked with NADC engineers in the 1970s, you
can verify that with KD6JG.

Jimmie boy, you are getting VERY tiring with all this
"intellectual word gaming" in here. All you are doing
is WASTING TIME of others. I have plenty of time but
grow tired of your constant petulance. You have NO
return on any investment. All you seem to do is follow
your buddie's word and SUPPORT him. You have NO proof
that this imaginary "reference" of Robeson exists,
can NOT present it to anyone else. Why bother with
all your foolish word games in here? Are you that hard
up for something to do?

Bye. Off.

From: on Sun,Apr 17 2005 9:29 am

wrote:
From: on Sat,Apr 16 2005 8:44 am




Psycho Pstevie still hasn't come up with a SINGLE
detail of "proof" on his insult of my "fitrep" at
NADC.

Nor have you proved him to be mistaken.

NO ONE can either "prove" or "disprove" the existance
of something that doesn't exist. :-)

PROVE Robeson is "telling the truth" on that "person."

PROVE that "person's" existance to the REST OF THE
NEWSGROUP.



And if K4YZ really did participate in seven hostile actions,
then it happened regardless of whether details are given or
not.

HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT IS TRUTH? :-)

It's basic logic, Len. If K4YZ really did participate in seven hostile
actions, then it happened regardless of whether details are given or
not. That's objective reality.

Sorry, Jimmie, that's just plain BULLSNIT. :-)

The only thing that "happened" is that Robeson tried
to imply that he was an experienced combat veteran.

You have tried to make that an ABSOLUTE TRUTH. Can't
be done.

That's neither "objective" nor "reality."

What seems to be operative here is that you are a BUDDIE
or Robeson and will support him in whatever he says in
here. [do I have to elaborate on what "buddie" means?]

You have presented NO PROOF to anyone on this subject.

If Robeson had merely stated the WHERE and WHEN of those
"seven hostile actions," he MIGHT be believable. He has
not done that yet. Ergo, after months of claiming such
he can only be considered a simple braggart. HE has NO
PROOF at all. Just a simple brag.

Robeson has had ample time to embellish his BRAG or to
PRESENT PROOF to others. He has NOT done so.

Put this matter to rest. You have NOTHING on that subject.
You are wasting everyone's time manufacturing an "issue"
that doesn't exist.

From: "bb" on Sun,Apr 17 2005 4:37 pm

K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:

So, is lie #16 the conversation with a former
colleague of Len's? Or
is lie #16 Steve's tenure on RRAP? Or is it actually
lies #16 and #17?

Neither, but nice try.

Steve, you lied. The only question is which time?

The conversation with a former colleague of Len's?

The length of tenure on RRAP?

Or both.

Fess up.

Well well...Looks like I made an error in math. My
bust.

Well, well...it took you Quitesometime to fess up.

Now where is Len's apology?

Right behind HIS apology to this NG for years of lying,
accusing,
deceiving and antagonism, Brian...Right behind!

Just hold your breath and wait!

Steve, K4YZ

Well, well. So much for your "strength of conviction."

Lennie is YEARS BEHIND coming clean on his errors, lies and
deceit, Brian... Y E A R S ! ! ! !

The old, "two wrongs makes a right" defense.

I have to disagree. Robeson is so caught up in his personal
hatred of me that he cannot possibly discuss anything
rationally...or even act rationally. He is the constant
antagonist of ANYONE who disagrees with him.

Case in point is others' opinions. Robeson labels those
as "LIES," perhaps even "deceit" even though those are
just personal opinions. Apparently, in Stevieworld,
only Stevie Robeson has the "truth." Ergo, in the logic
of Stevieworld, ALL contrary (to Robeson's) opinions
are "LIES" as well as "errors" and "deceit."

That's quite sick. Irrational. Opinions are just
opinions.

However, Robeson seems to take everything against his
opinions as a "personal attack." He then respond but
that response IS a personal attack on his perceived
attacker. He hasn't yet learned that such is NOT the
way discussions go in our society.

On the other hand, if Robeson has been so brainwashed
by the remaining amateur radio membership organization
that he believes ONLY what they say, then any negative
against him is held AS a personal attack. That is NOT
the fault of anyone voicing a negative opinion against
Robeson's, it is Robeson's fault.

You won't do what you know to be right because someone else isn't
doing
what you know to be right.

I AM, repeat AM doing "what's right".

Repeating something doesn't make it any more true or false. But in
this case, it makes lies #19 and #20.

Quite true, but Robeson hasn't learned to communicate
with rational people yet. He simply drives home a
blunt point that HE IS RIGHT with no proof or other
reference that it IS right.

That's either a monstrous ego at work there or it can
be a curious mixture of the reasons I mentioned just
before. Either way, it is not right...to rational
people.

You and Leonard are lairs, Brian.

That's a falsehood, a LIE. Robeson's only justification
of that is that HE IS RIGHT. It is his antagonist style
which is so off-putting to so many...no justification,
just the personal insult and LIE combination.

You don't tell the truth. YOU
make glaring errors, and then when I make a simple one, all of a
sudden
you think your slates are wiped clean.

Robeson's simple LIE-insult in the first quoted sentence
is an absolute statement. It is without any presented
proof...therefore it is Robeson's OPINION. However, any
of Robeson's OPINIONS are - in his communications here -
perfectly "right." HE IS RIGHT in Stevieworld. Problem
is, everyone else is NOT in Stevieworld (wherever that is).

Lessee? 30 hours before Len makes an appearance in one of your
demented threads, you're chiding him for disapproving of what you
said.
Then you have a conversation with a claimed colleague of Len's years
and years before you ever heard of Len. Both cases were smear
campaigns against Len, and you say you make simple errors???

Sorry...Doesn't work that way.

That's right Steve, it doesn't work that way. What you said was an
outright lie.

Robeson's HATRED and ANGER seem to be overriding any
rationality here. Robeson cannot prove the existance
of this "fitrep" determiner. He has compounded that
by numerous statements, none of which have any proof
of truth. [see my previous message on this...]

Actually, several years ago, Robeson tried the same
ploy and embellished that until nearly in the form it
was recently. That was unproveable then and his
claim is unproveable now.

None of this discussion has ANYTHING to do with amateur
radio policy. It is just the usual Stevie psychotic
activity in here, part of his general misuse of the
newsgroup as his own personal "battleground."

Robeson doesn't seem capable of acknowledging that he
ever does anything wrong. That seems to increase his
anger quotient and his personal insults grow to
incomprehensible blatherings of Hatred and Anger.

Robeson is an EXAMPLE of a modern U.S. Amateur Extra.

Other Amateur Extras seem unable to take any strong
action to stop his pollution of all threads in this
newsgroup. All threads eventually turn into Robeson's
insults of all his "opponents" in any discussion.
A few have made negative comments to his style, notably
Hans Brakob. Responses to those by Robeson were less
than civil and uncomplimentary.

wrote:
From: "bb" on Sun,Apr 17 2005 4:37 pm

Case in point is others' opinions. Robeson labels those
as "LIES," perhaps even "deceit" even though those are
just personal opinions. Apparently, in Stevieworld,
only Stevie Robeson has the "truth." Ergo, in the logic
of Stevieworld, ALL contrary (to Robeson's) opinions
are "LIES" as well as "errors" and "deceit."

That's quite sick. Irrational. Opinions are just
opinions.

Opinions are just opinions when they start off "My opinion on the
subject is..." Or "I think it would be better if..." THOSE are
opinions.

Lies and deceit are things like "The ARRL BoD is dishonest" or
"ARES won't be able to respond becasue their members are too old and
oover obligated

Quite true, but Robeson hasn't learned to communicate
with rational people yet. He simply drives home a
blunt point that HE IS RIGHT with no proof or other
reference that it IS right.

(A) Neither Leonard H Anderson or Brian P Burke are rational.
They both make statements in public forum contrary to the presence of
data that contradicts their assertions.

(B) Nice try on the "no proof" assertions, Lennie....And only
MORE proof that I am correct in calling you a liar.

Your marionette is presently avoiding answering questions about
his assertions of the viability of ARES in the face of NUMEROUS news
releases to the contrary.

Huge snip of ususal obnxious verbosity to.....

Other Amateur Extras seem unable to take any strong
action to stop his pollution of all threads in this
newsgroup. All threads eventually turn into Robeson's
insults of all his "opponents" in any discussion.
A few have made negative comments to his style, notably
Hans Brakob. Responses to those by Robeson were less
than civil and uncomplimentary.

While I have no doubt that not everyone approves of my "up in your
face" methology of dealing with the two of you, I DO notice that NONE
of them, other than to acknowledge your "First Amendment Right" to do
so, "support" YOUR presence here, Lennie.

It dosen't take one of those "inquiring minds" to know why....

You are both liiars.

You don't do what you'll say you'll do.

They're tired of the same "Back in 1953...." war satories.

You'e deceitful.

It really is THAT simple.

Steve, K4YZ

wrote:
wrote:

The only thing that "happened" is that Robeson tried
to imply that he was an experienced combat veteran.

Where? Being "involved in a hostile action" doesn't mean someone
actually fought in combat.

And maybe he *is* an experienced combat veteran.

I never said I was a "combat veteran". I don't describe myself as
a combat veteran. I was, however, involved in seven different actions
while I was in the Marine Corps where I was directly involved in the
receipt of or exchange of hostile gunfire.

And no matter how many times Lennie tries to make fun of them, it
doesn't change any facts.

Lennie can just stew in his frustration of not being able to point
and click his way to superior intellect!

Steve, K4YZ

wrote in message
oups.com...


TTY rates jumped from 60 WPM to
100 WPM,

Hardly a "jump", Len. More like a slide.


I'll have to side with Len on this one. It was a JUMP, not a slide or a
slither.

When the USN fleet broadcasts shifted to JASON cover (100WPM) from black
uncovered (60WPM), estimates are that the TTY casualty rate approached 75%.

Machines which had been happily chugging along for years on 60WPM gears
literally self-destructed when 100WPM gears were installed.

73, de Hans, K0HB
Master Chief Radioman, US Navy

wrote in message
oups.com...

That was necessary to insure the secure "rotor machine"
encryption terminals (on-line or off-line capable)
for Command orders and responses.

No, it wasn't necessary. The most popular "rotor machine" crypto system in us
in ALL Navy ships was the off-line KL7 "ADONIS" system. It was incapable of
on-line connection, and did not require TTY to transmit messages. Morse worked
just fine, and 98% of all the "5-letter-coded-group" messages were generated on
KL7 off-line machines.

73, de Hans, K0HB
Master Chief Radioman, US Navy

"KØHB" wrote in message
ink.net...

wrote in message
oups.com...

That was necessary to insure the secure "rotor machine"
encryption terminals (on-line or off-line capable)
for Command orders and responses.

No, it wasn't necessary. The most popular "rotor machine" crypto system
in us in ALL Navy ships was the off-line KL7 "ADONIS" system. It was
incapable of on-line connection, and did not require TTY to transmit
messages. Morse worked just fine, and 98% of all the
"5-letter-coded-group" messages were generated on KL7 off-line machines.

73, de Hans, K0HB
Master Chief Radioman, US Navy


How many other crypto systems were there in existence that you
did not have a "Need To Know" about?

73,

Lloyd

In . com writes:

wrote:
From: on Apr 12, 8:00 pm
wrote:
From: N2EY on Apr 12, 4:20 pm

*snip!*

Yet you make this BIG THING about morse code
in a window display...

Is it wrong to mention an interesting architectural feature?

Morse code is NOW an "interesting architectural feature?"

The windows are an interesting architectural feature.


Way back in Usenet history(early 90's), there were posts signed by an
author named "Serdar Argic" who repetitively posted about the Armenian
murders of Turks in 1918:

http://www.jaedworks.com/shoebox/zumabot.html

(Reputable historians agree that the killing was the other way around.)

Some interesting similarities to Len:


- Serdar responded to each and every mention of "Turkey" or "Armenia,"
no matter the context, with long harangues about his interpretation of
history.

- Len responds to each and every mention of "Morse Code," no matter the
context, with long harangues about his interpretation of history.


- Any attempt to engage Serdar in debate resulted in him insulting
others with invectives like "Gum Brain," "Wieneramus," "your
Criminal Armenian Grandparents" (even others who were, say, ethnic
Japanese), and "A mouthpiece for the fascist x-Soviet Armenian
Government."

- Any attempt to engage Len in debate results in him insulting others
with invectives like "Gunnery Nurse," "Katapult King," "Macho
Morsemen," and "A believer in the Church of St. Hiram."


- While somewhat amusing at first, with posters able to easily rebut
Serdar, even writing parodies mocking the overwrought style of the
posts, the amusement turned to annoyance when the sheer volume of his
posts overwhelmed any on-topic discussion.

- While somewhat amusing at first, with posters able to easily rebut
Len, even writing parodies mocking the overwrought style of the posts,
the amusement turned to annoyance when the sheer volume of his posts
overwhelmed any on-topic discussion.


- Serdar failed his Turing Test for human intelligence when it became
clear that he could not distinguish between Turkey, the country, and
Turkey, the meat. For example, his postings went up dramatically in
the first two weeks preceding American Thanksgiving, strongly
suggesting that the posts were written and posted by some kind of AI
or "bot."

- Len's sentience, and ability to pass the Turing Test, is left as an
exercise for the reader. As a first test, Len is invited to guess my
positions on Morse Code.


--
73, Paul W. Schleck, K3FU

http://www.novia.net/~pschleck/
Finger for PGP Public Key

From: "K4YZ" on Mon,Apr 18 2005 2:26 am

wrote:
From: "bb" on Sun,Apr 17 2005 4:37 pm

Case in point is others' opinions. Robeson labels those
as "LIES," perhaps even "deceit" even though those are
just personal opinions. Apparently, in Stevieworld,
only Stevie Robeson has the "truth." Ergo, in the logic
of Stevieworld, ALL contrary (to Robeson's) opinions
are "LIES" as well as "errors" and "deceit."

That's quite sick. Irrational. Opinions are just
opinions.

Opinions are just opinions when they start off "My opinion on the
subject is..." Or "I think it would be better if..." THOSE are
opinions.

Stop blabbering like a petulant child. Get with the program
in computer-modem communications. YOU DON'T DO WHAT YOU
YOU JUST COMMANDED.

You are NOT a "commander" of a damn thing in here. You can't
control yourself or your angry, petulant, emotional outbursts.

Lies and deceit are things like "The ARRL BoD is dishonest" or
"ARES won't be able to respond becasue their members are too old and
oover obligated

"...oover obligated..." Finish what you write.

Those are OPINIONS. No "law" requires prefacing "every"
OPINION with your orders of the day. Kiss off.


Quite true, but Robeson hasn't learned to communicate
with rational people yet. He simply drives home a
blunt point that HE IS RIGHT with no proof or other
reference that it IS right.

(A) Neither Leonard H Anderson or Brian P Burke are rational.
They both make statements in public forum contrary to the presence of
data that contradicts their assertions.

WHAT "data?" Robeson has presented NO "data."

(B) Nice try on the "no proof" assertions, Lennie....And only
MORE proof that I am correct in calling you a liar.

Robeson has NO "proof." All Robeson has is a seemingly
unending list of personal insults against all those who
disagree with him.

Your marionette is presently avoiding answering questions about
his assertions of the viability of ARES in the face of NUMEROUS news
releases to the contrary.

NO ONE is any "marionette."

Your (usual) petulant outburst in another demonstrated
fit of anger shows you have little "proof" of anything
but your own anger and hatred of anyone saying the least
negative thing about your own opinions.

Huge snip of ususal obnxious verbosity to.....

Other Amateur Extras seem unable to take any strong
action to stop his pollution of all threads in this
newsgroup. All threads eventually turn into Robeson's
insults of all his "opponents" in any discussion.
A few have made negative comments to his style, notably
Hans Brakob. Responses to those by Robeson were less
than civil and uncomplimentary.

While I have no doubt that not everyone approves of my "up in
your
face" methology of dealing with the two of you, I DO notice that NONE
of them, other than to acknowledge your "First Amendment Right" to do
so, "support" YOUR presence here, Lennie.

Tsk. Robeson should have all kinds of "doubt." :-)

Robeson not only acts like the sociopath but has a
monstrous EGO thinking that his "in your face" insult-
fest is "approved" by those that count. :-)

It dosen't take one of those "inquiring minds" to know why....

You are both liiars.

What is a "liiar?" List the "LIES" supposedly said in here.

You don't do what you'll say you'll do.

Robeson has yet to "do what he says he will do." :-)

Namely PROVE the existance of this imaginary "fitrep"
person he says evaluated me at NADC 34 years ago. :-)

Robeson has yet to acknowledge that the Department of
Defense DOES DIRECT MARS...even when given the link to the
latest document issued by the DoD.

Robeson has yet to state the WHEN and WHERE of his mighty
"hostile action" experiences.

They're tired of the same "Back in 1953...." war satories.

Well, regardless of the anger-induced typos ("satories"),
I did work big-time HF communications for three straight
years beginning in 1953. Robeson has NOT done anything
close to that. Robeson has NEVER worked in electronics
engineering as either civilian or military member, yet
presumes to be "knowledgeable" about engineering after a
very short-term job as a purchasing agent!

You'e deceitful.

Present the "proof." Describe the WHY where ALL MUST
do exactly what they (allegedly) "promised" years ago.

Robeson does little else but hurl personal insults at
those who do not agree with him. That gets him the
attention he seems to be desperately seeking. Robeson
manages to turn EVERY thread in this newsgroup into his
own "FIGHT" with all those who disagree with him.

It really is THAT simple.

Robeson IS "that simple."

Robeson is an EXAMPLE of a modern U.S. Amateur Extra.

K=D8HB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

TTY rates jumped from 60 WPM to
100 WPM,

Hardly a "jump", Len. More like a slide.

I'll have to side with Len on this one. It was a JUMP, not a slide
or a
slither.

Poor choice of words on my part, Hans.

A better choice would be "step up" or "incremental increase".
I think of a "jump" as an order-of-magnitude increase, like
60 wpm to 600 wpm, etc.

When the USN fleet broadcasts shifted to JASON cover (100WPM) from
black
uncovered (60WPM), estimates are that the TTY casualty rate
approached 75%.

I can understand why!

Machines which had been happily chugging along for years on 60WPM
gears
literally self-destructed when 100WPM gears were installed.

didn't they test the machines at 100 before the changeover?

73 de Jim, N2EY

wrote:
From: "K4YZ" on Mon,Apr 18 2005 2:26 am

That's quite sick. Irrational. Opinions are just
opinions.

Opinions are just opinions when they start off "My opinion on
the
subject is..." Or "I think it would be better if..." THOSE are
opinions.

Stop blabbering like a petulant child. Get with the program
in computer-modem communications. YOU DON'T DO WHAT YOU
YOU JUST COMMANDED.

I didn't "COMMAND" anything, Lennie.

You are NOT a "commander" of a damn thing in here.

Whoa! Profantiy! I am so impressed, Lennie! You are so strong
when you start hurling profanity in a fitful rage!

You can't
control yourself or your angry, petulant, emotional outbursts.

You insist I am in an angry, petulant mode, Lennie, but from
what...?!?! "Expressing my opinion"...?!?!

That "NCTA" double standard sneaking in???

Lies and deceit are things like "The ARRL BoD is dishonest" or
"ARES won't be able to respond becasue their members are too old and
oover obligated

"...oover obligated..." Finish what you write.

That was it, Lennie.

Those are OPINIONS. No "law" requires prefacing "every"
OPINION with your orders of the day. Kiss off.

OH! Now THAT was a COMMAND, Lennie! And one that even further
endears you to the ones you would seek to dominate and rule.

Too bad were on to you, eh,...?!?!

(A) Neither Leonard H Anderson or Brian P Burke are rational.
They both make statements in public forum contrary to the presence
of
data that contradicts their assertions.

WHAT "data?" Robeson has presented NO "data."

Sure I have!

Brian insisted ARES's usefulness and ability to respond to calls
was "overblown".

In the last week alone I have provided no fewer than four
references that absolutely disprove his assertion, and all of those
from news releases within DAYS of his comments.

(B) Nice try on the "no proof" assertions, Lennie....And only
MORE proof that I am correct in calling you a liar.

Robeson has NO "proof." All Robeson has is a seemingly
unending list of personal insults against all those who
disagree with him.

There's no "unending list of personal insults", Lennie.

All I have to do is recite what YOU have said and what YOU have
said you'd do then point out that you've not done it to make my point.

Your marionette is presently avoiding answering questions about
his assertions of the viability of ARES in the face of NUMEROUS news
releases to the contrary.

NO ONE is any "marionette."

Brain P Burke is. He's yours, as a matter of fact.

But he may get jealous...You've started tossing affectionate
sounding conversation in Todd's direction...We may be ringside for a
cat fight soon!

Your (usual) petulant outburst in another demonstrated
fit of anger shows you have little "proof" of anything
but your own anger and hatred of anyone saying the least
negative thing about your own opinions.

No outburst. That's your imagination running amok, Lennie.

While I have no doubt that not everyone approves of my "up in your
face" methology of dealing with the two of you, I DO notice that
NONE
of them, other than to acknowledge your "First Amendment Right" to
do
so, "support" YOUR presence here, Lennie.

Tsk. Robeson should have all kinds of "doubt."

But why?

Robeson not only acts like the sociopath but has a
monstrous EGO thinking that his "in your face" insult-
fest is "approved" by those that count.

Lennie, you ARE the complete idiot I suggest you are.

In the very paragraph YOU quoted, I stated very clearly that I
"have no doubt" about who does or doesn't approve of my methodology of
dealing with you.

Why would you then make so assinine an assertion as to suggest
that I have some ego to suggest I believe it's "approved"...?!?!

Another snip of ususal pejorative laden rhetoric (that he claims
is only used AGAINST him...)....

Robeson IS "that simple."

Not as "simple" as the alleged ex-radio engineer who makes
assinine assertions based upon quotes that clearly undermine it.

Robeson is an EXAMPLE of a modern U.S. Amateur Extra.



And the IEEE should sue to get you to stop using an IEEE address in
public. You're a humiliation to one and all.

Steve, K4YZ

wrote in message
oups.com...

didn't they test the machines at 100 before the changeover?

Ponder that question a minute! It's pretty hard to test a 60WPM machine at
100WPM until you convert it to 100WPM. Duh!!!

In some cases (CVA's, CL's, CA's, and flag-configured platforms) that was
possible with spare machines, but most hulls did not have that luxury. You just
swapped out the gearset and crossed your fingers. If it broke, you could always
send a CASREPT and shift to the FOX broadcast.

73, de Hans, K0HB

wrote:
wrote:
From: on Sun,Apr 17 2005 9:29 am

wrote:
From: on Sat,Apr 16 2005 8:44 am

You're misquoting all over the place, Len. But it doesn't matter.
Here, I'll clear it up:

This is NOT a court of law and "exactness" of quoting
is NOT required...

Are you afraid of exact quotes, Len? You seem to be.

Especially when they are FROM him...Because sure enough something
he said is going to come back to haunt him...

MARS and amateur radio aren't the same thing. But many radio
amateurs
are involved in MARS.

The MILITARY Affiliate Radio System is DIRECTED by the
Department of Defense. They function quite well by
sole use of military personnel.

No hams are involved in MARS?

Sure they are, Jim. Lennie knows that.

And Lennie ALSO knows that his "sole use of military personnel" is
an absolute lie.

See the links to the
actual words of the DoD DIRECTIVE posted in here...see
the links to several of the "Grecian Firebolt" radio
exercises posted in here.

Were you a part of that exercise, Len?

Of course not.

But Lennie COULD have been...Aafterall, HE said it's possible for
non-Amateurs to become "licensed" in MARS who are not otherwise part of
a relevent DoD program...

Still waiting for him to tell us of how he's now on MARS without a
Morse Code test....

That's my position. If Steve says different, argue with *him*.

Considering that James P. Miccolis is a "good buddie"
of that wonderful representative of a modern U.S.
Amateur Extra, that is a specious comment of yours.

Not specious at all, Len. You hold me responsible for what someone
else does. Doesn't work like that, Len.

Guess Lenie thinks that his sarcastic use of "wonderful
representitive" doesn't work for him too.

But it works just fine...

You HAVE supported him in the recent past and not long
ago disavowed any attempt to control his emotional
outbursts.

What you're saying is that if I agree with him on something,
I'm somehow responsible for everything he does.

As opposed to Lennie who's not even responsible for what Lennie
does!

MARS always was and remains a MILITARY radio system.

But most of the participants aren't in the military.

How do YOU know?

I have sources, Len.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. That is acceptible

"acceptable", Len. A PROFESSIONAL writer doesn't make
such mistakes. ;-)

A TYPO! A TYPO! Lennie's MAD now Boys and Girls!

ONLY to reputable
journalistic practice. YOU are NOT a "reputable
journalist." You do NOT have the qualifications.
You are NOT INVOLVED in journalism.

Neither are you, Len.

I've been paid for papers I've written. Had them published, too.
Guess that means I am "involved in journalism" too, eh...?!?!

Do you feel insulted by my posts, Len? It seems so - you seem to
find
insult in everything.

Not me.

Yes, you.

ESPECIALLY him!

You are the one with daydreaming about the
"need" of morsemanship in amateur radio licensing
test.

You really are unable to handle opposition and difference of
viewpoints, Len.

Oh, yes, that ties right in with a Canadian museum
having morse code in its window...sure...

Those windows really seem to bother you.

? I wash windows. I like Microsoft windows.

I figured you for a Mac user, Len.

What "bothers" me is that a NON-SERVUNG

"SERVUNG"?

What does that mean?

(EVER) person
tried to make out like he was the "expert" on the
United States military use of radio.

I don't claim to be an expert on anything, Len. I think
the fact that I pointed out some of your mistakes really
burns your bacon.

He's made TYPOS! Lennie's REALLY mad now!

You are NOT QUALIFIED for such a judgement. shrug

Sure I am.

Lesseee......I LOVE it when Lennie claims that one MUST have
certain credentials in order to comment on military use of radio (which
Lennie has not participated in in almost 50 years himself...), yet when
any of us suggest that if he were a licensed Amateur with some
PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE in Amateur Radio policy and practice, all he can
tell us about is the licensure status of FCC commissioners and his Army
days in 53-56 while getting profane and demanding!

What has that to do with your claim that:

"If you ain't got the guts to tell the details, you AIN'T done it.
Simple as that."

That's what you wrote, Len. Does it only apply to Steve and not to
Brian.

Simple. Brian has NOT insulted me personally, not even
many times over. Robeson HAS and continues to do it.

Ah, I see.

If someone agrees with you and demonstrates the proper kudos,
you accept what they say as absolute fact, without any details or
supporting evidence.

But if someone disagrees with you, and maybe "returns your fire"
in the form of name calling and other jackass behavior, you
demand "proof" and deny the reality of their experience. In fact,
you claim that:

"If you ain't got the guts to tell the details, you AIN'T done it.
Simple as that."

Of course you've also demonstrated that no matter what proof is
presented, you won't accept it, and will attack the messenger.

So there's no reason to give you details or proof.

Still wondering where Lennie's pictures of his home "radio hobby"
projects are...Of course he insults and

He insists he has some (projects), but never discusses them or
presents them. Has tons of time to insult others over theirs, though.

If you don't believe I
was there (I was), then Robeson's claim is irrelevant.

No, it isn't.

Either you were there, or you weren't. That's objective reality.
Whether I believe it or not doesn't affect whether you were
there or not.

You claim without proof that no such person exists. So it's your
word against his.

Why do you feel you are INVOLVED with Robeson?

What involvement? I'm simply pointing out some facts.

That's what has Lennie confused. Facts are NOT his forte...

You've already disavowed any capability of controlling
his emotional tantrums in here.

So? *You* can't control his emotional tantrums "in here", either,
despite all your alleged knowledge of human nature and psychology,
etc.

In fact, Len, you can't even control your own emotional tantrums "in
here" ;-)

Extremely good point...especially with him making several posts
this day alone with out-and-out demands, multiple typos (his own "rule"
that typos are indicative of anger or "madness"), and frequent use of
profanity and antagonistic comments such as "kiss off".

Now maybe it's true and maybe it isn't. But it's basically your
word
against that of some unknown person.

IMAGINARY person.

The only way that could be proved true is if:

1) You were never at NADC, so nobody could know you from there.

Nope...Lennie was there.

2) Everyone who knew you there is now dead or otherwise unable to
communicate with Steve.

Last I spoke with my contact there was 4 years ago. He may have
passed on since then, but he's in great shape...I really doubt it.

3) You have complete information that no one you knew there has
communicated with Steve.

Ain't happened...Hence Lennie's frequent and lengthy tirades in
here in order to mask his retreat...Problem is all he's doing is
stompping that much harder!

I can't "disprove" something that doesn't exist.

So it's your word against his. Nothing more or less.

A-yup. And it seems pretty evident from all teh rhetoric that I
hit a pretty sensitive chord.

He shudda kept his mouth shut instead of trying to show off!

If you wish a reference to the fact that I WAS at NADC
or that I worked with NADC engineers in the 1970s, you
can verify that with KD6JG.

Why? Was he there with you? How do I know his information is
reliable?

And such corroboration would only further substantiate my
findings.

More important - how would it prove that Steve has not communicated
with someone who knew you there?

=)

Jimmie boy, you are getting VERY tiring with all this
"intellectual word gaming" in here.

Now there you go, Len, trying to make me angry by calling me names.

The fact is you know you've painted yourself into a logical corner,
and you're trying to bluff and bluster your way out.

Can't you take "strong opposition"?

Of course he can't, Jim.

That's why he's so frustrated. He came in here thinking (falsely)
that all those "amateurs" would just fall at his professional feet.

When we not only DIDN'T kneel before him but actually demonstrated
that, Yes, we CAN walk, chew gum AND talk on a radio at the same time,
he got down right indignant...!

All you are doing
is WASTING TIME of others.

How? I'm simply pointing out some of your mistakes and holes in your
logic. Do you consider what you write to be a waste of time?

I have plenty of time but
grow tired of your constant petulance.

What "petulance", Len? I'm not calling you names.

I reiterate my suggestion of Lennie's perception as being better
than "us"...He sees all of us as errant children, and he thinks himself
the father about to administer corporal punishment.

You have NO return on any investment.

That's not what my monthly statements say!

Seems to me all of us with an FCC Form 660 have an investment!

All you seem to do is follow
your buddie's word and SUPPORT him. You have NO proof
that this imaginary "reference" of Robeson exists,
can NOT present it to anyone else.

I'm not trying to prove it one way or the other. That's for
you and Steve to do. I'm just pointing out that your claims
are as unproven as his.

It's just your word against his. Nothing more.

Uh oh...that was rationality, Jim...You'll confuse the old man.

Why bother with
all your foolish word games in here?

Typing practice. Spelling practice. Logic practice.

Plus it's mildly amusing.

I kinda see it like watching a puppy chase his tail...Only I can't
figure out if Lennie is the puppy or the tail.

Are you that hard
up for something to do?

Not me. Obviously *you* are, though...

Sounds to me like Lennie just wants everyone to shut up, get in
line behind him, and don't do anything HE doesn't do!

Bye. Off.

Sounds like a veiled command for me to shut up.

At least you won't call me a "feldwebel".

I am sure Lennie wouldn't have known what it was if not for
"Stalag 17".

73

Steve, K4YZ

K=D8HB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

didn't they test the machines at 100 before the changeover?

Ponder that question a minute! It's pretty hard to test a
60WPM machine at
100WPM until you convert it to 100WPM. Duh!!!

You misunderstand - probably because I wasn't clear. Here's what I
meant to say, but mangled:

"Didn't 'Those In Charge Back On Land'(1), who decided to change to 100
wpm, run some off-air, lab tests on the various types of teleprinters
in use by the fleet before the changeover, to see how the machines
would hold up?"

I guess not. They must have figured that if the teleprinter
manufacturer said the machines would work at 100 wpm, and made 100 wpm
gears, there would be no problem.

In some cases (CVA's, CL's, CA's, and flag-configured
platforms) that was
possible with spare machines, but most hulls did not have that
luxury. You just
swapped out the gearset and crossed your fingers. If it broke, you
could always
send a CASREPT and shift to the FOX broadcast.

I know what FOX is and I assume CASREPT is a request for a repeat. But
I could be mistaken.

73 es tnx de Jim, N2EY

(1) Civilian's made-up term that should be self-explanatory.

wrote:
From: "bb" on Sun,Apr 17 2005 4:37 pm

K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:

So, is lie #16 the conversation with a former
colleague of Len's? Or
is lie #16 Steve's tenure on RRAP? Or is it
actually
lies #16 and #17?

Neither, but nice try.

Steve, you lied. The only question is which time?

The conversation with a former colleague of Len's?

The length of tenure on RRAP?

Or both.

Fess up.

Well well...Looks like I made an error in math. My
bust.

Well, well...it took you Quitesometime to fess up.

Now where is Len's apology?

Right behind HIS apology to this NG for years of lying,
accusing,
deceiving and antagonism, Brian...Right behind!

Just hold your breath and wait!

Steve, K4YZ

Well, well. So much for your "strength of conviction."

Lennie is YEARS BEHIND coming clean on his errors, lies and
deceit, Brian... Y E A R S ! ! ! !

The old, "two wrongs makes a right" defense.

I have to disagree.

I wasn't implying that you were wrong, only that Robeson views you as
wrong, and thusly, he can be as wrong as he needs to be with complete
immunity. In they typical liberal fashion, any means to achieve the
desired end is "good." Like lying about what ARES needs.

Robeson is so caught up in his personal
hatred of me that he cannot possibly discuss anything
rationally...or even act rationally. He is the constant
antagonist of ANYONE who disagrees with him.

Indeed. The moron even harangued me for not giving Coslo grief over
his aborted near-space balloon project. I was characterized as an
antagonist for not exhibiting antagonistic behavio[u]r. Hi. Hi, hi!
What an idiot.

Case in point is others' opinions. Robeson labels those
as "LIES," perhaps even "deceit" even though those are
just personal opinions.

Like the many other assertions that Robeson makes, they are simply
wrong.

Apparently, in Stevieworld,
only Stevie Robeson has the "truth." Ergo, in the logic
of Stevieworld, ALL contrary (to Robeson's) opinions
are "LIES" as well as "errors" and "deceit."

And so his sickness manifests itself.

That's quite sick. Irrational. Opinions are just
opinions.

Robeson is quite sick, irrational.

However, Robeson seems to take everything against his
opinions as a "personal attack." He then respond but
that response IS a personal attack on his perceived
attacker. He hasn't yet learned that such is NOT the
way discussions go in our society.

He's still having problems figuring out what an antagonist is.
Meanwhile, he's got a fan club from the rra.MISC egging him on.

On the other hand, if Robeson has been so brainwashed
by the remaining amateur radio membership organization
that he believes ONLY what they say, then any negative
against him is held AS a personal attack. That is NOT
the fault of anyone voicing a negative opinion against
Robeson's, it is Robeson's fault.

Robeson has many faults.

You won't do what you know to be right because someone else
isn't
doing
what you know to be right.

I AM, repeat AM doing "what's right".

Repeating something doesn't make it any more true or false. But in
this case, it makes lies #19 and #20.

Quite true, but Robeson hasn't learned to communicate
with rational people yet. He simply drives home a
blunt point that HE IS RIGHT with no proof or other
reference that it IS right.

That's either a monstrous ego at work there or it can
be a curious mixture of the reasons I mentioned just
before. Either way, it is not right...to rational
people.

Nefarious Steve. He could be his own Rap Group.

You and Leonard are lairs, Brian.

That's a falsehood, a LIE. Robeson's only justification
of that is that HE IS RIGHT. It is his antagonist style
which is so off-putting to so many...no justification,
just the personal insult and LIE combination.

Robeson is a liar.

You don't tell the truth. YOU
make glaring errors, and then when I make a simple one, all of a
sudden
you think your slates are wiped clean.

Robeson's simple LIE-insult in the first quoted sentence
is an absolute statement. It is without any presented
proof...therefore it is Robeson's OPINION. However, any
of Robeson's OPINIONS are - in his communications here -
perfectly "right." HE IS RIGHT in Stevieworld. Problem
is, everyone else is NOT in Stevieworld (wherever that is).

I'm just glad that Ed McMahon didn't knock on my door saying that I won
a vacation to Stevieworld.

Lessee? 30 hours before Len makes an appearance in one of your
demented threads, you're chiding him for disapproving of what you
said.
Then you have a conversation with a claimed colleague of Len's years
and years before you ever heard of Len. Both cases were smear
campaigns against Len, and you say you make simple errors???

Sorry...Doesn't work that way.

That's right Steve, it doesn't work that way. What you said was an
outright lie.

Robeson's HATRED and ANGER seem to be overriding any
rationality here. Robeson cannot prove the existance
of this "fitrep" determiner. He has compounded that
by numerous statements, none of which have any proof
of truth. [see my previous message on this...]

He is an irrational being. Perhaps if he came clean on the seven
hostile actions, he could buy a couple of credibility points so sorely
needed.

Actually, several years ago, Robeson tried the same
ploy and embellished that until nearly in the form it
was recently. That was unproveable then and his
claim is unproveable now.

It's the seriousness of the accusation that's important, not the truth
in it (or lack thereof). Like his homosexual and pedophilia inuendo.

None of this discussion has ANYTHING to do with amateur
radio policy. It is just the usual Stevie psychotic
activity in here, part of his general misuse of the
newsgroup as his own personal "battleground."

Robeson doesn't seem capable of acknowledging that he
ever does anything wrong. That seems to increase his
anger quotient and his personal insults grow to
incomprehensible blatherings of Hatred and Anger.

Robeson is an EXAMPLE of a modern U.S. Amateur Extra.

Unfortunately. Yet most other Extra's on RRAP are good with Robeson's
behavio[u]r. Steve farts in church and we're to believe it's incense.

Other Amateur Extras seem unable to take any strong
action to stop his pollution of all threads in this
newsgroup. All threads eventually turn into Robeson's
insults of all his "opponents" in any discussion.
A few have made negative comments to his style, notably
Hans Brakob. Responses to those by Robeson were less
than civil and uncomplimentary.




bb

K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
From: "bb" on Sun,Apr 17 2005 4:37 pm

Case in point is others' opinions. Robeson labels those
as "LIES," perhaps even "deceit" even though those are
just personal opinions. Apparently, in Stevieworld,
only Stevie Robeson has the "truth." Ergo, in the logic
of Stevieworld, ALL contrary (to Robeson's) opinions
are "LIES" as well as "errors" and "deceit."

That's quite sick. Irrational. Opinions are just
opinions.

Opinions are just opinions when they start off "My opinion on
the
subject is..."

Is that your official opinion?

Lies and deceit are things like "The ARRL BoD is dishonest" or
"ARES won't be able to respond becasue their members are too old and
oover obligated

Quite true, but Robeson hasn't learned to communicate
with rational people yet. He simply drives home a
blunt point that HE IS RIGHT with no proof or other
reference that it IS right.

(A) Neither Leonard H Anderson or Brian P Burke are rational.
They both make statements in public forum contrary to the presence of
data that contradicts their assertions.

Yet the data also contradict your assertions, and therein is where
one's opinion can be sourced. Even your own attempt at writing a
simple schedule for an ARES exercise refuted your very claims that ARES
alawys satisfies customers needs.

(B) Nice try on the "no proof" assertions, Lennie....And only
MORE proof that I am correct in calling you a liar.

I am correct in calling you a liar.

Your marionette is presently avoiding answering questions about
his assertions of the viability of ARES in the face of NUMEROUS news
releases to the contrary.

Speak of avoiding...

You are free to try rewriting the duty roster for that ARES exercise.
But please do adhere to customers expectations.

Huge snip of ususal obnxious verbosity to.....

That would be "usual."

Other Amateur Extras seem unable to take any strong
action to stop his pollution of all threads in this
newsgroup. All threads eventually turn into Robeson's
insults of all his "opponents" in any discussion.
A few have made negative comments to his style, notably
Hans Brakob. Responses to those by Robeson were less
than civil and uncomplimentary.

While I have no doubt that not everyone approves of my "up in
your
face" methology of dealing with the two of you, I DO notice that NONE
of them, other than to acknowledge your "First Amendment Right" to do
so, "support" YOUR presence here, Lennie.

It dosen't take one of those "inquiring minds" to know why....

You are both liiars.

You don't do what you'll say you'll do.

They're tired of the same "Back in 1953...." war satories.

You'e deceitful.

It really is THAT simple.

Steve, K4YZ

You've piled on the lies at an uprecedented rate in the past two weeks.
Why would we believe anything you might say today?

wrote:
From: "K4YZ" on Mon,Apr 18 2005 2:26 am

Your marionette is presently avoiding answering questions about
his assertions of the viability of ARES in the face of NUMEROUS news
releases to the contrary.

NO ONE is any "marionette."

Robeson is shamed that he could not write a valid schedule with fewer
than the required number of volunteers. He is angry that my opinion
turned out to be correct, as proved by his very own works.

wrote in message
oups.com...



"Didn't 'Those In Charge Back On Land'(1), who decided
to change to 100 wpm, run some off-air, lab tests on the
various types of teleprinters in use by the fleet before the
changeover, to see how the machines would hold up?"

The entire fleet was outfitted with AN/UGC-20 and AN/UGC-25 plus a scattering of
AN/UGC-6 teleprinters. These are just different configurations of what
civilians would call a "Model 28". The were designed to run at 45.5, 55, and 75
baud (60, 75, and 100 WPM) depending on the gearset installed. Properly
maintained and adjusted, they were reliable workhorses at any designed speed.

But for years they'd been plodding along at 45.5-baud in the fleet and never
been exercised at the higher speed rates. Ships didn't carry gearsets for
speeds above 45.5, and even if they did, changing out the gears was not a
trivial task, and besides, there were no higher speed signals available to test
at those higher speed.

But maintenance was uneven, as was the skill level of the repairman. Many ships
carried no trained repairman, and the machines only got professional attention
during shipyard or tender availability periods (stand-downs for upkeep).

These machines have a host of springs/clutches/latches/pivots/adjustments which
each of course have design tolerances. Now at 45.5-baud a machine can tolerate
some level of "out of tolerance" parts and adjustments and still operate quite
satisfactorily. But jump (there's that word again) to 75 baud and all that
tolerance creep would result in an inoperative machine, either printing garbage
or actually physically failing as out of tolerance parts literally "ran into
each other", clutches froze, bearing seized, etc.

I know what FOX is and I assume CASREPT is a request for a repeat.

CASREPT is "Casualty Report" --- a dreaded notice up the operational chain of
command that your ship has some diminished capability to perform. Skippers
don't like to send CASREPTs! Good sailors do some heroic things to protect
their Skippers from such, including cumshawing a helicopter ride in the middle
of the night to carry a sick AN/UGC-20 to the repair shop on a nearby Heavy.
Almost as much as a good stewburner (cook) a Captain would do almost anything to
get (and keep) a good teletype repairman.

73, de Hans, K0HB

"Lloyd" wrote in message
...


How many other crypto systems were there in existence that you
did not have a "Need To Know" about?


Almost none. As a senior member of CINCLANTs communications staff, my job
required me to be familiar with the secure communications capabilities and
interoperability of all US Joint (Army, Navy, Air Force) and Allied Forces
assigned to the OPCON of CINCLANT.

73, de Hans, K0HB
Master Chief Radioman, US Navy

wrote in message
roups.com...

TTY rates jumped from 60 WPM to
100 WPM,

Hardly a "jump", Len. More like a slide.


I'll have to side with Len on this one. It was a JUMP, not a slide or
a
slither.

When the USN fleet broadcasts shifted to JASON cover (100WPM) from
black
uncovered (60WPM), estimates are that the TTY casualty rate approached
75%.

Machines which had been happily chugging along for years on 60WPM
gears
literally self-destructed when 100WPM gears were installed.

In two experiments on a few circuits over RUAP (the
TTY network identifier of messages carried through
ADA) of 1955, the various teleprinters were modified
with "new gears" to operate at 75 WPM. After three
months the downtime on those modified machines
quadrupled. Another experiment was tried in 1956
(after I had been sent back to the states) but that
modified-existing-machine-type was also a negative-
result test. Note: Those circuits were running
24/7 and with backup possible on older 60 WPM stcck
machines.

The newer 100 WPM teleprinters began to come into
operational Army use in the 1960s. See the Model
33s from Teletype Corporation which served both
industry and the military quite well for the next
two decades.

The Army had tried both a punch-card and magnetic
card system for message relay in the late 1960s but
with mixed success. While higher rates were possible
without the strain on P-tape punchers-readers now
replaced by cards, those would evolve into the
all-electronic message relay systems. USAF did the
same.

Sorry, can't think of any fancy names applied to
any of the land-based systems. :-) Guess it isn't
as romantic as what the Navy had with names like
ADONIS or JASON (if you like horror that one might
be considered "romantic" - :-] ).

From: "K4YZ" on Apr 18, 2:31 pm



There's NO such member at the IEEE. IEEE is a worldwide
professional association. I first joined them in 1973
and am a Life Member. You can check that in the annual
Membership Directory.

retired (from regular hours) electronic engineer person

Retired from what he alledges to have been an engineering
career...

Feel free to query the Personnel departments of:
Rocketdyne Division of Boeing Aircraft (when it was
a Division of Rockwell International), Teledyne
Electronics (Newbury Park, CA), Hughes Aircraft
Corporation (now owned by Ford? see ElSegundo radar
and Canoga Park missle divisions), RCA Corporation
EASD (now owned by General Electric), Electro-
Optical Systems (Pasadena, a division of Xerox
Corporation).

That goes back 40 years. I didn't list Micro-
Radionics since they got purchased by Systron-
Donner which was later purchased by another
corporation with the original MRI group moved
from its Van Nuys, CA, building. Same with
Birtcher Corporation bailing out of a competitive
electronics market and into building management.

I left the RCA/GE Retirement Plan in favor of a
lump sum dispersal a couple years ago, worked out
well for me financially; still getting rebates
from our joint tax returns.

Mentioning the part-time job as Associate Editor
(as well as frequent contributor to Ham Radio
Magazine seems to be a sore point with you. Too
bad, but you can still get ALL the articles they
published over their 22-year life from CQ or ARRL
for $150 the set of three CDs (shipping extra if
ordered by mail). Since you don't do any computer
hobby activities, you wouldn't be interested in
my articles in BYTE, Micro, or CALL-A.P.P.L.E
publications; ELECTRONICS magazine, a bi-weekly
published by McGraw-Hill changed into four
separate marketing type periodicals. The old
Hewlett-Packard (calculator) Software Library is
long gone so you can't check there...although at
least one program submittal was in the Top 10
requested programs for months.

Now full time newsgroup insulting.

Tsk, tsk. You mean like calling others "PUTZ"
or "LIAR" or "DECEITFUL?" I don't think I've
done that. Seems to me that little STEVIE does
that on a regular basis!

Sunnuvagun! (as Hans likes to say...)

Poor Stevie, you HAD to comment on "alledged." Tsk.

From: Paul W. Schleck on Mon,Apr 18 2005 12:03 pm

In . com
writes:

wrote:
From: on Apr 12, 8:00 pm
wrote:
From: N2EY on Apr 12, 4:20 pm

*snip!*

Yet you make this BIG THING about morse code
in a window display...

Is it wrong to mention an interesting architectural feature?

Morse code is NOW an "interesting architectural feature?"

The windows are an interesting architectural feature.


Way back in Usenet history(early 90's), there were posts signed by an
author named "Serdar Argic" who repetitively posted about the Armenian
murders of Turks in 1918:

http://www.jaedworks.com/shoebox/zumabot.html

(Reputable historians agree that the killing was the other way
around.)

Some interesting similarities to Len:

1. My ancestry is Scandinavian, not of the Middle East.

2. I have NO disputes on either Armenia or Turkey.

3. I have no "home page" on the Internet, nor am I a
registered domain user on same.

4. Why do you insist there are "similarities" to
anything in or near the Middle East? I have
NEVER used a screen name of "Serdar Argic."

- Serdar responded to each and every mention of "Turkey" or "Armenia,"
no matter the context, with long harangues about his interpretation
of
history.

- Len responds to each and every mention of "Morse Code," no matter
the
context, with long harangues about his interpretation of history.

Explain my "interpretation." As one who was IN
communications for a long time, IN the electronics
industry for a long time, HAVE extensive backup
literature on communications methods, I'm not
"interpreting" anything.

- Any attempt to engage Serdar in debate resulted in him insulting
others with invectives like "Gum Brain," "Wieneramus," "your
Criminal Armenian Grandparents" (even others who were, say, ethnic
Japanese), and "A mouthpiece for the fascist x-Soviet Armenian
Government."

- Any attempt to engage Len in debate results in him insulting others
with invectives like "Gunnery Nurse," "Katapult King," "Macho
Morsemen," and "A believer in the Church of St. Hiram."

AFTER I had been personally insulted a number of ways,
i.e., called a "PUTZ," "LIAR," "deceitful," AND had
members of my family (alive or dead), especially my
wife, insulted in public...I decided to "return fire"
in the same way. Civility in opposition to anything
I wrote was not "discussion" but a series of personal
insults and harrassment actions, both on and off the
newsgroup.

- While somewhat amusing at first, with posters able to easily rebut
Serdar, even writing parodies mocking the overwrought style of the
posts, the amusement turned to annoyance when the sheer volume of
his
posts overwhelmed any on-topic discussion.

- While somewhat amusing at first, with posters able to easily rebut
Len, even writing parodies mocking the overwrought style of the
posts,
the amusement turned to annoyance when the sheer volume of his posts
overwhelmed any on-topic discussion.

"Overwrought?" :-) Merely responses in kind.

"Sheer volume of posts?" Have you examined the Google
statistics for individual messagers or actually
EXAMINED the CONTENT of the newsgroup postings?

Apparently NOT. Or, the "authority" is rather biased.

In the past, I've given what was thought to be some
examples of communications modes and methods that I
was a party to, knew about, or could double-check
through disinterested third parties. What I got in
response was the usual personal insults for NOT
adhering to the "authority" on amateur radio as
stated by the ARRL...or NOT adhering to the pet
desires of individuals whose personal views were
taken as "applying to ALL in amateur radio." [those
did not, but that was irrelevant to such posters]

- Serdar failed his Turing Test for human intelligence when it became
clear that he could not distinguish between Turkey, the country, and
Turkey, the meat. For example, his postings went up dramatically in
the first two weeks preceding American Thanksgiving, strongly
suggesting that the posts were written and posted by some kind of AI
or "bot."

- Len's sentience, and ability to pass the Turing Test, is left as an
exercise for the reader. As a first test, Len is invited to guess
my
positions on Morse Code.

WHAT "Turing Tests" apply in here? Are you implying
(which is transparently obvious on reading) that I am
some kind of "Artificial Intelligence?" Is everyone
required to "pass a test" to perform as a robot and
mechanically utter all the quaint "standards" of
yesteryear? Are all robots in here "supposed" to
obey - without question - what the ARRL commands?

Alan Turing was considered a genius at cryptography
and methods of attack (solutions to cryptographic
problems). Alan Turing was also a homosexual and,
when exposed, took his own life. That was long ago.

Suddenly, for some odd reason, I am implied as
"failing" a "Turing Test" by NOT ACCEPTING old,
antiquated standards in an amateur radio hobby
activity!?! So be it. I am NOT a robot. I am
NOT artificial (all natural ingredients).

If there is any "failing" of a "Turing Test," then
I would judge the "authority of the newsgroup" to
be deficient in handling a public dispute by a
technique of mockery and attempts at humiliation.
As one who has been IN computer-modem communication
for 20 years - not counting sporadic viewing of the
old ARPANET and original USENET before that - and
as a former co-sysop of one BBS and a moderator on
two other BBSs...I find this "technique" of handling
certain individuals to be faulty in the extreme.

You should give careful thought, using whatever
intelligence is there, artificial or not, to closing
access from public to private. Select ONLY those
who conform to Group Think, who say nice-nice to all
the self-defined gurus, and respect the ENTIRETY of
U.S. amateur radio customs and traditions, wishing
to keep OLD standards forever. CLOSE this place off.
Do NOT let any "riff-raff" in. Demand "dedication"
and "committment" to old standards, ideas, and
(especially) the mythology. Demand "involvement"
FIRST...by licensing, something by which "to show
papers." Do NOT, under any circumstances, allow
the First Amendment Rights of Americans to operate
in here. Think of that as the "Orwell Test." It
doesn't have the mythological mystique of "Turing
Test" but it is nonetheless as artificial.

I refuse to meet any "Orwell Test." Have a nice
day, Mr. Asimov...