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Lest We Forget
The new Canadian War Museum opens May 7-8
http://www.warmuseum.ca/cwm/opening/celebrate_e.html Some of the windows spell out "Lest We Forget" in Morse Code. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Lest WE forget..."N2EY" NEVER served in ANY war in ANY military.
Let's all stand up and salute this brave "member of the service." [ex-RA16408336] |
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From: N2EY on Apr 12, 4:20 pm
wrote: Lest WE forget..."N2EY" NEVER served in ANY war in ANY military. How do you know for sure, Len? Besides - what does it matter? You want to get all emotional and teary on World War II? Tsk. Go talk to a REAL WW2 veteran. Better yet, visit a VA hospital and keep some of them company. Remember that WW2 ENDED BEFORE you were born. And, you've NEVER served in any military. Yet you make this BIG THING about morse code in a window display...could it be that you just don't give a damn about WW2 and only want to make a big emotional showing for morse? I've seen how you talk to those who *have* served in the US military, and for various departments of the US government. I haven't dissed Bill Sohl about his USN service. I haven't dissed Brian Burke about his USAF service. I HAVE dissed those that want to LIE about their big heroic military "actions" such as Stebie the wonder murine about his famous "seven hostile actions" and his failure to acknowledge that the DoD really does direct MARS. Am I supposed to "respect" the infamous Kolonel Klunk about his very NON-SPECIFIC "service" in Vietnam? Just because he brags without revealing any details? Just because he was in the State Department? Of course I "should." All those infamous types are pro-coders and YOU love morse code, so much so that you think ham radio is all about morse- manship...and MUST connect morse code to some kind of imaginary "gallantry in the service." :-) If the person disagrees with you on almost any issue, you treat them *and their service* with little or no respect at all. Tsk, tsk. Better contact the Department of the Army of the United States and DEMAND my Good Conduct medal be given up and sent back! :-) You make fun of them and their service for no apparent reason other than a failed attempt at what you consider "humor". Tsk, tsk, tsk. Those "veterans" (at least one with "seven hostile actions") have all been about as disrespectful to me FIRST. They got what is known as "return fire." Poor things. Thought they could pull a snow job on everyone else and make themselves real "big" in others' eyes. They should have stayed down at the Legion Hall bar. Except it isn't funny. Not to you. But, you've NOT served in the military. Your body too precious to get it harmed in REAL service for your country? Couldn't get a dinner date with the Captain because the King of the Katapults was already booked on that aircraft carrier? Let's all stand up and salute this brave "member of the service." There you go again! So typical. I served. YOU did NOT. You want to see more of what I did in ARMY service? OK, go to http://kauko.hallikainen.org/history/equipment and drop down to "Stations." Once you've downloaded at least one, we MIGHT have a chat...but then you have this terrible habit of wanting to message on everything at long length. Wastes my time. |
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From: N2EY on Apr 12, 4:20 pm wrote: Lest WE forget..."N2EY" NEVER served in ANY war in ANY military. How do you know for sure, Len? You don't know for sure, do you, Len? Besides - what does it matter? You want to get all emotional and teary on World War II? "You cannot answer a question with another question" You own words, Len. What does it matter whether I served in any military or not? Tsk. Go talk to a REAL WW2 veteran. I've done that - many times. From several branches of the US military. Better yet, visit a VA hospital and keep some of them company. That's a good idea! Remember that WW2 ENDED BEFORE you were born. Why is that of any significance? If anything, it is more important that those of us who weren't alive then keep the history alive. I live just up the hill from Valley Forge, where Washington's army survived a terrible winter. Also down the pike from where the Paoli Massacre took place. That war ended long before *you* were born, Len. And, you've NEVER served in any military. How do you know for sure? And what does it matter anyway? Yet you make this BIG THING about morse code in a window display... Is it wrong to mention an interesting architectural feature? Does it bother you, Len? Here's a hint: The Canadian military forces used Morse Code in WW2. could it be that you just don't give a damn about WW2 and only want to make a big emotional showing for morse? Nope - not at all. I find the history of WW2 to be very interesting. I think it's important to understand that war, both how it got started and the aftermath, to understand current history. And technology. For example, the very first high-speed, general purpose, digital electronic computer, ENIAC, was developed and built right here in Philadelphia - in the basement of the building where I went to EE school. I've actually seen and handled pieces of it, read the original papers in the library there. It was built to compute artillery aiming tables for the US Army, and was used for ten years at the Aberdeen Proving Grounds. There's also an unconfirmed story that it was used for atom bomb calculations. Or let's talk about the lessons to be learned from the US Navy Mark XIV submarine torpedo, and its problems. Perhaps the proximity fuse is more to your liking. Incredible device, made with tubes originally meant for hearing aids. I could go on about the political and economic effects, but since this is a radio newsgroup I thought I'd stick to electronic and radio subjects. If I did talk about any military service I had, you would be certain to make fun of it. It's just what you do, Len. So typical. I've seen how you talk to those who *have* served in the US military, and for various departments of the US government. I haven't dissed Bill Sohl about his USN service. Because he doesn't disagree with you about Morse Code testing in amateur radio. In fact, he pretty much ignores you. I haven't dissed Brian Burke about his USAF service. Because he doesn't disagree with you about Morse Code testing in amateur radio. In fact, he pretty much idolizes you. It's only those who disagree with you about Morse Code testing that get your disrespect, abuse, name calling, and general jackass behavior. I HAVE dissed those that want to LIE about their big heroic military "actions" such as Stebie the wonder murine There you go - calling names. So typical. about his famous "seven hostile actions" Do you know what they are? Where *you* involved in any of them? Is there any reason to doubt that Steve, K4YZ, was involved if he says he was? and his failure to acknowledge that the DoD really does direct MARS. I see. His mistake somehow justifies *your* behavior? Am I supposed to "respect" the infamous Kolonel Klunk There you go again - calling names. Godwin invoked. You lose. Why not use the person's name and callsign? about his very NON-SPECIFIC "service" in Vietnam? Just because he brags without revealing any details? What difference would details make? Your behavior when details are given doesn't change. In fact, you simply use the details as a source of more insults. OTOH, Brian, N0IMD, refuses to give any details about his claimed amateur radio operation from Somalia, but that doesn't bother you a bit. Just because he was in the State Department? Do you mean Dave, K8MN, who served in the US State Department at a number of foreign posts as a communications officer? His service to our country was much longer than your, Len, and in many more foreign countries. I recall when he was transferred to right around the same time the US Embassy in the country he was transferring to was bombed. We didn't hear from him for weeks. Luckily he was OK. Yet you argued with him at length about communications facilities that he used - even though you've never worked for the State Department. Of course I "should." Yes, you should. Perhaps you have forgotten the US Coast Guard radio operator who used to post here? You made fun of his service in that capacity, in your now-famous "sphincter post". Why? All those infamous types are pro-coders and YOU love morse code, so much so that you think ham radio is all about morse- manship... Len - lest we forget - you're not a radio amateur. You've never been a radio amateur. Yet you see fit to tell all how amateur radio should be. You're not and never have been part of the FCC, either. and MUST connect morse code to some kind of imaginary "gallantry in the service." :-) All I did was mention a museum and some windows. That really seems to bother you. Too bad - the fact is, the Canadian armed forces used Morse Code in WW2. Deal with it, Len. If the person disagrees with you on almost any issue, you treat them *and their service* with little or no respect at all. Tsk, tsk. Better contact the Department of the Army of the United States and DEMAND my Good Conduct medal be given up and sent back! :-) I don't demand anything like that, Len. You make fun of them and their service for no apparent reason other than a failed attempt at what you consider "humor". Tsk, tsk, tsk. Those "veterans" (at least one with "seven hostile actions") have all been about as disrespectful to me FIRST. No, they haven't. At least not to anyone rational. You apparently see any disagreement with your cherished beliefs about Morse Code testing in amateur radio as "disrespect", and then proceed in your completely predictable manner. They got what is known as "return fire." For saying good things about Morse Code, apparently. Poor things. Thought they could pull a snow job on everyone else and make themselves real "big" in others' eyes. They should have stayed down at the Legion Hall bar. You mean like somebody who tells us the same story, over and over and over and over again, about his service at a big radio facility 50+ years ago? Then gets mad because people point out his underestimation of distances, and mistakes about Soviet aircraft deployment dates? Except it isn't funny. Not to you. But, you've NOT served in the military. How do you know for sure? Do *you* think it's funny, Len? Why? Those whom you make fun of don't seem to be amused. Besides, the point is that you make fun of the military service of those who disagree with you about Morse code testing in amateur radio. Even though you're not an amateur radio operator, never have been, and probably never will be. Your body too precious to get it harmed in REAL service for your country? Why, no, Len. I don't think that at all. Never have. Is military service the only REAL service, Len? I guess all those police officers, firefighters, EMTs, and other uniformed people who go in harm's way don't count, do they? How about the utility workers who keep the lights on and the water flowing? Or the highway, airline, transit, railroad and maritime workers who keep transportation running? Or health care workers, exposed to who-knows-what every day on the job? Guess they don't count either - to you. Couldn't get a dinner date with the Captain because the King of the Katapults was already booked on that aircraft carrier? More name calling - so typical of you. Let's all stand up and salute this brave "member of the service." There you go again! So typical. I served. YOU did NOT. How does that give you the right to insult others' service? You want to see more of what I did in ARMY service? No. You've told us over and over and over again. That's enough. |
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From: Dave Heil on Apr 12, 9:31 pm
wrote: wrote: From: N2EY on Apr 12, 4:20 pm wrote: Does it bother you, Len? You read his lengthy post and saw the style he used. You bet it bothered him. NAH. I did it. Jimmie didn't do it. To be fair, Len has exhibited jackass behavior toward K0HB and Hans does not support retention of morse code testing. Tsk. Everyone who disagrees with Davie is guilty of "jackass behavior?" :-) Riiiight...only ARRL-speak and the beauty, nobility, and grandeur of morsemanship is spoken in here...:-) about his famous "seven hostile actions" Do you know what they are? Where *you* involved in any of them? He doesn't have any idea what they were. It kills him. NAH. It only shows what a snow-jobbing laid-off murine does under the guise of a U.S. AMATEUR radio extra callsign. Tosses brags like they were bagels. To my knowledge, Steve has never stated that DOD does not direct MARS. His claim is that if there were no radio amateurs, there'd have been no MARS program. In that, he is correct. Bull****. The United States ARMY started MARS...but under a different name before WW2. Tsk. Davie ought to read up on the subject...lots of references. MARS always was and remains a MILITARY radio system. A small one, about as effective as having special services put on shows and entertainment. Morale boosting thing. That's pretty much why I've left details out. As with Steve's military service, Len doesn't know what I did or where I did it and it kills him. No problem with me. If you ain't got the guts to tell the details, you AIN'T done it. Simple as that. ...and Len has invariably demeaned that service. He has always known more about my job that I did. Foreign service tours were dismissed as tropical backwaters, places of insignificance and Cashew capitals. Awwwww...you doing a Rodney Dangerfield? Get no "respect?" :-) Don't leave out his attempts at insult by stating that my name never appeared in any lists of embassy staff. That blew up in his face when I produced a couple of urls in which I was listed. Len's response was to dismiss the lists as some sort of telephone directory. Tsk. Sounds like you are bucking for an Intelligence Star. Couldn't you get a sponsor at the NSA to award you one? Because Len is all about Len. That isn't the important part though. The important part is where Len's sphincter post speaks of what it is like to be in battle. Len was never in battle. Only ONE very brief exchange of gunfire. Doesn't count as a "battle," though. Big Hero Dave...tell us all YOUR "battle experience." Were you behind the Viet Cong lines sending intel to HQ via CW? As far as I'm concerned, amateur radio is about operating any mode I choose on any band I choose. Len isn't involved on any level. Everyone NOT licensed in amateur radio "isn't involved." :-) The point is that some MIGHT want to GET INTO amateur radio. Dave loses his perspective on that. [age causing loss of sight...among other things...] Davie ought to get with Paul Schleck pronto and have EVERYONE without a valid amateur radio license TOSSED OFF this newsgroup! Make it "safe" for the double- standard elitist PCTA EXTRAs to use as their personal chat room and blog... :-) Len knows more about what others did than those involved. Nope. But...I DO recognize a bull**** artist from a long distance. Davie be one of those... Len knows more about the military. I know enough to meet THIS level of homo saps. :-) Been IN the Army...had lots of contact with Army as a civilian after service time done. Len knows more about communications. Tsk. I know some about that. Been IN that as a civilian. :-) Len knows more about radio operation. Tsk. I know HOW they work and the protocols needed in some radio services. You have a need of info on those radio services, big honcho? Len knows more about the U.S. Department of State. I do? Oh, my, aren't you stepping off into denied territory! :-) Len knows more about your work. Tsk. Jimmie "works in the transportation field" according to one Comment in the ECFS. Other than that, Jimmie do NOT say squat. He afraid others find out? Len knows more about Brian Kelly's work. I do? Oh, my. News to me. Isn't Kellie retired? Len knows more about Steve's work. Tsk. Stevie follows REAL DOCTORS' orders...which includes staying OUT of the Sharps box. :-) Whatever Len did at ADA more than a half century ago impacts amateur radio not in the least. Riiiiight old-timer. Ham radio NEVER operated on HF, did it? :-) Len tells it because he wants to be sure that everyone knows of it. You betcha! :-) The U.S. military did NOT use morse code in long-distance fixed-point to fixed-point communications a half century ago and still don't. Tsk. Some of you olde-tyme hammes need to get your noses out of old WW2 surplus radio books and inspect the rest of the radio world. How does it give him the right to insult those who never served? Tsk, tsk, tsk. Those with SUCH thin skin should NOT be ANYWHERE on the Internet!!!! :-) Now you've done it, Jim. You've denigrated a veteran. Jimmie (and Davie...and Stevie...and every other elitist double-standard PCTA EXTRA) will, without doubt, insult ANYONE they care to. It's in the fine print of their ham privileges as super-dooper under-the-dashboard douche bag guar-un-teed morsemanship EXTRA AMATEURS!!!! |
wrote: From: Dave Heil on Apr 12, 9:31 pm about his famous "seven hostile actions" Do you know what they are? Where *you* involved in any of them? He doesn't have any idea what they were. It kills him. NAH. It only shows what a snow-jobbing laid-off murine does under the guise of a U.S. AMATEUR radio extra callsign. Tosses brags like they were bagels. Who's "snow-jobbing"...??? Who's "laid off"...??? How can one toss an intangible...??? To my knowledge, Steve has never stated that DOD does not direct MARS. His claim is that if there were no radio amateurs, there'd have been no MARS program. In that, he is correct. Bull####. There's the definitive, "professional" response. The United States ARMY started MARS...but under a different name before WW2. Tsk. Davie ought to read up on the subject...lots of references. It doesn't matter if it was started by the Hand of God himself, Lennie. No Radio Amateurs = No MARS...Army, Air Force, OR NAVMARCORPS. MARS always was and remains a MILITARY radio system. A small one, about as effective as having special services put on shows and entertainment. Morale boosting thing. Your limited scope of experience and practice is showing, Lennie. That's pretty much why I've left details out. As with Steve's military service, Len doesn't know what I did or where I did it and it kills him. No problem with me. If you ain't got the guts to tell the details, you AIN'T done it. Simple as that. As opposed to YOUR making up details, Lennie? I am not as predisposed to being a braggart about my military service. There's no need to. Guys who make a point of sticking the minute details of what they allegedly did in the Armed Forces usually prove out to be the rear area radio clerks, etc. ...and Len has invariably demeaned that service. He has always known more about my job that I did. Foreign service tours were dismissed as tropical backwaters, places of insignificance and Cashew capitals. Awwwww...you doing a Rodney Dangerfield? Get no "respect?" Please specify there part wherein you feel Dave has misrepresented YOUR representations of his duties, Lennie. I say he's spot-on. Don't leave out his attempts at insult by stating that my name never appeared in any lists of embassy staff. That blew up in his face when I produced a couple of urls in which I was listed. Len's response was to dismiss the lists as some sort of telephone directory. Tsk. Sounds like you are bucking for an Intelligence Star. Couldn't you get a sponsor at the NSA to award you one? Dave produces evidence of his claims of service. You produce excuses. Because Len is all about Len. That isn't the important part though. The important part is where Len's sphincter post speaks of what it is like to be in battle. Len was never in battle. Only ONE very brief exchange of gunfire. Doesn't count as a "battle," though. Tripping and accidentally discharging your weapon is NOT an "exchange of gunfire". Big Hero Dave...tell us all YOUR "battle experience." Please, Lennie...P L E A S E retell the tale of YOUR service under the threat ot the Soviet Bear...And then again your emotional outburst about how somone else doesn't know what it's like to be under incomming artillery fire..as if YOU had been at Khe San or Chosin Resivoir! ! ! ! Len knows more about what others did than those involved. Nope. But...I DO recognize a bull@@@@ artist from a long distance. Davie be one of those... No, he's not. But you sure do "bare the scars" of one. Len knows more about the military. I know enough to meet THIS level of homo saps. How? So far, other than reciting the hearldry of the one unit you were in in 1953, you haven't gotten a single thing about anyone else's service right yet! Been IN the Army... Yeah. When Dwight D Eisenhower was President. ....had lots of contact with Army as a civilian after service time done. Too bad you didn't learn anything about the Army after that. Len knows more about communications. Tsk. I know some about that. Been IN that as a civilian. Not very successful though. Muddled through to retirement. No real accomplishments other than having had the good sense to invest wisely for your leisure years...Of couse at least ONE of your "employers" reports that you were rather leisurely WHILE you were in their "employ". Len knows more about radio operation. Tsk. I know HOW they work and the protocols needed in some radio services. You have a need of info on those radio services, big honcho? You know jack squat about "radio operation", Lennie. You know a lot of theory...but squat about how they are used. Len knows more about the U.S. Department of State. I do? Oh, my, aren't you stepping off into denied territory! But it's true. You've tried to nip at Dave's heels for years but still can't seem to land a good bite in there... Due primarily to your lack of knowledge and experience in such issues. I've not found a single bit of fault in anything Dave has commented on herein...However YOU ahve been caught with your britches down on numerous occassions. Whatever Len did at ADA more than a half century ago impacts amateur radio not in the least. Riiiiight old-timer. Ham radio NEVER operated on HF, did it? Neither did you, according to your MOS's, Lennie...Oh, I have no doubt that in the process of performing your radio mechanic duties that you caused some RF to eminate on HF, but you were NEVER an HF operator. Len tells it because he wants to be sure that everyone knows of it. You betcha! Now if it were only true..... How does it give him the right to insult those who never served? Tsk, tsk, tsk. Those with SUCH thin skin should NOT be ANYWHERE on the Internet!!! I love it... Lennie wrapping himself in patriotic bunting...as he claims others do...Of course when HE does it it's "OK". Now you've done it, Jim. You've denigrated a veteran. Jimmie (and Davie...and Stevie...and every other elitist double-standard PCTA EXTRA) will, without doubt, insult ANYONE they care to. It's in the fine print of their ham privileges as super-dooper under-the-dashboard douche bag guar-un-teed morsemanship EXTRA AMATEURS!!!! There's a "douche bag" in this forum, Lennie, but he doesn't have an Amateur Radio license of ANY class. Steve, K4YZ |
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote: wrote: From: N2EY on Apr 12, 4:20 pm wrote: What does it matter whether I served in any military or not? Tsk. Go talk to a REAL WW2 veteran. I've done that - many times. From several branches of the US military. It would have difficult to grow up in the times we did and not encounter larges numbers of World War II vets. My dad was a U.S. Navy veteran of the Normandy Invasion. A great-uncle was at Bataan. He survived the Death March and was held by the Japanese until the end of the war. I've known many, many WW2 veterans. Many I got to know quite well. Some didn't want to talk, others had lots to say. Just for starters, I know/knew a B-24 navigator who bombed Japan (gave me some of his maps), a USN submarine torpedoman, a USN radioman (gave me some of his books - he also served in the Korean War) and a B-24 pilot who bombed Ploesti three times and spent 18 months as "a guest of the Luftwaffe". I don't think the latter would find Len's "Kolonel Klunk" insults to be very funny. Better yet, visit a VA hospital and keep some of them company. That's a good idea! It is a great idea but it isn't necessary to visit just a VA hospital. I can visit any number here who live quietly with spouses, who are living alone as widowers or who are in nursing homes. Remember that WW2 ENDED BEFORE you were born. Why is that of any significance? If anything, it is more important that those of us who weren't alive then keep the history alive. I live just up the hill from Valley Forge, where Washington's army survived a terrible winter. Also down the pike from where the Paoli Massacre took place. That war ended long before *you* were born, Len. You don't quite have the hang of it, Jim. I'd have used, "That war ended LONG BEFORE YOU WERE BORN, Len". Oh yes. And, you've NEVER served in any military. How do you know for sure? And what does it matter anyway? Notice how Len avoids direct questions? Yet you make this BIG THING about morse code in a window display... Is it wrong to mention an interesting architectural feature? I read your post and looked in vain for the portion in which you made it a BIG THING. It's not a big thing - except to Len. Does it bother you, Len? You read his lengthy post and saw the style he used. You bet it bothered him. Here's a hint: The Canadian military forces used Morse Code in WW2. If I did talk about any military service I had, you would be certain to make fun of it. It's just what you do, Len. So typical. I've seen how you talk to those who *have* served in the US military, and for various departments of the US government. I haven't dissed Bill Sohl about his USN service. Because he doesn't disagree with you about Morse Code testing in amateur radio. In fact, he pretty much ignores you. I haven't dissed Brian Burke about his USAF service. Because he doesn't disagree with you about Morse Code testing in amateur radio. In fact, he pretty much idolizes you. It's only those who disagree with you about Morse Code testing that get your disrespect, abuse, name calling, and general jackass behavior. To be fair, Len has exhibited jackass behavior toward K0HB and Hans does not support retention of morse code testing. Then I guess what bothers Len is when someone says anyhting good about Morse Code. I HAVE dissed those that want to LIE about their big heroic military "actions" such as Stebie the wonder murine There you go - calling names. So typical. ...and utterly predictable. about his famous "seven hostile actions" Do you know what they are? Where *you* involved in any of them? He doesn't have any idea what they were. It kills him. Sure seems to. Is there any reason to doubt that Steve, K4YZ, was involved if he says he was? and his failure to acknowledge that the DoD really does direct MARS. I see. His mistake somehow justifies *your* behavior? To my knowledge, Steve has never stated that DOD does not direct MARS. His claim is that if there were no radio amateurs, there'd have been no MARS program. In that, he is correct. Am I supposed to "respect" the infamous Kolonel Klunk There you go again - calling names. Did you really expect otherwise? No. Utterly predictable. Godwin invoked. You lose. Why not use the person's name and callsign? about his very NON-SPECIFIC "service" in Vietnam? Just because he brags without revealing any details? What difference would details make? Your behavior when details are given doesn't change. In fact, you simply use the details as a source of more insults. That's pretty much why I've left details out. As with Steve's military service, Len doesn't know what I did or where I did it and it kills him. The important fact is that no matter what you actually did, Len would dismiss it. We've seen that over and over and over. That's why I don't mention my employment. Len would simply make fun of it. OTOH, Brian, N0IMD, refuses to give any details about his claimed amateur radio operation from Somalia, but that doesn't bother you a bit. Isn't this about the point at which Leonard or Brian would begin some litany about a double standard? Well, they should know ;-) Just because he was in the State Department? Do you mean Dave, K8MN, who served in the US State Department at a number of foreign posts as a communications officer? His service to our country was much longer than your, Len, and in many more foreign countries. ...and Len has invariably demeaned that service. He has always known more about my job that I did. Foreign service tours were dismissed as tropical backwaters, places of insignificance and Cashew capitals. It wouldn't matter where you were or what you did, Len would demean and insult your service. I recall when he was transferred to right around the same time the US Embassy in the country he was transferring to was bombed. We didn't hear from him for weeks. Luckily he was OK. Luckily, he was on holiday between the assignments and was comfy right here in West Virginia when the news broke. I arrived in Tanzania three weeks after the embassy bombing. The embassy was in ruins. Operations were carried out from a residence for six months while a new temporary embassy was constructed. It was my busiest assignment. I doubt the bombers waited for you to leave when scheduling their attack. Yet you argued with him at length about communications facilities that he used - even though you've never worked for the State Department. Don't leave out his attempts at insult by stating that my name never appeared in any lists of embassy staff. That blew up in his face when I produced a couple of urls in which I was listed. Len's response was to dismiss the lists as some sort of telephone directory. Oh yes - I do recall that now. Of course I "should." Yes, you should. Perhaps you have forgotten the US Coast Guard radio operator who used to post here? You made fun of his service in that capacity, in your now-famous "sphincter post". Why? Because Len is all about Len. That isn't the important part though. The important part is where Len's sphincter post speaks of what it is like to be in battle. Len was never in battle. I think the important part is that Len demeaned and insulted the services of a skilled military radio operator, for no good reason at all. That behavior speaks volumes. All those infamous types are pro-coders and YOU love morse code, so much so that you think ham radio is all about morse- manship... Len - lest we forget - you're not a radio amateur. You've never been a radio amateur. Yet you see fit to tell all how amateur radio should be. You're not and never have been part of the FCC, either. As far as I'm concerned, amateur radio is about operating any mode I choose on any band I choose. Len isn't involved on any level. That's right. If the person disagrees with you on almost any issue, you treat them *and their service* with little or no respect at all. Tsk, tsk. Better contact the Department of the Army of the United States and DEMAND my Good Conduct medal be given up and sent back! :-) I don't demand anything like that, Len. You make fun of them and their service for no apparent reason other than a failed attempt at what you consider "humor". Tsk, tsk, tsk. Those "veterans" (at least one with "seven hostile actions") have all been about as disrespectful to me FIRST. No, they haven't. At least not to anyone rational. No, they haven't. You apparently see any disagreement with your cherished beliefs about Morse Code testing in amateur radio as "disrespect", and then proceed in your completely predictable manner. They got what is known as "return fire." For saying good things about Morse Code, apparently. Poor things. Thought they could pull a snow job on everyone else and make themselves real "big" in others' eyes. They should have stayed down at the Legion Hall bar. Len knows more about what others did than those involved. Len knows more about the military. Len knows more about communications. Len knows more about radio operation. Len knows more about the U.S. Department of State. Len knows more about your work. Len knows more about Brian Kelly's work. Len knows more about Steve's work. Len doesn't know anything about my work. He could not do my job. That *really* bothers him. You mean like somebody who tells us the same story, over and over and over and over again, about his service at a big radio facility 50+ years ago? Then gets mad because people point out his underestimation of distances, and mistakes about Soviet aircraft deployment dates? Whatever Len did at ADA more than a half century ago impacts amateur radio not in the least. Len tells it because he wants to be sure that everyone knows of it. Except it isn't funny. Not to you. But, you've NOT served in the military. How do you know for sure? Do *you* think it's funny, Len? Why? Those whom you make fun of don't seem to be amused. Besides, the point is that you make fun of the military service of those who disagree with you about Morse code testing in amateur radio. Even though you're not an amateur radio operator, never have been, and probably never will be. Your body too precious to get it harmed in REAL service for your country? Why, no, Len. I don't think that at all. Never have. Is military service the only REAL service, Len? I guess all those police officers, firefighters, EMTs, and other uniformed people who go in harm's way don't count, do they? How about the utility workers who keep the lights on and the water flowing? Or the highway, airline, transit, railroad and maritime workers who keep transportation running? Or health care workers, exposed to who-knows-what every day on the job? Guess they don't count either - to you. Couldn't get a dinner date with the Captain because the King of the Katapults was already booked on that aircraft carrier? More name calling - so typical of you. Let's all stand up and salute this brave "member of the service." There you go again! So typical. I served. YOU did NOT. How does that give you the right to insult others' service? How does it give him the right to insult those who never served? Good question! You want to see more of what I did in ARMY service? No. You've told us over and over and over again. That's enough. Now you've done it, Jim. You've denigrated a veteran. How? I simply don't want to read Len's story about ADA again. He's posted it here so many times I can recite it from memory. But he never explains why it has any bearing on amateur radio policy today. I don't want to read it again. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
wrote: Dave Heil wrote: wrote: wrote: From: N2EY on Apr 12, 4:20 pm wrote: To be fair, Len has exhibited jackass behavior toward K0HB and Hans does not support retention of morse code testing. Then I guess what bothers Len is when someone says anyhting good about Morse Code. What bothers Lennie most is that people who DIDN'T get "paid" for their radio expertise know more about radio than he could hope to know. Hans has considerable experience, ergo he catches The Wrath of Lennie. I HAVE dissed those that want to LIE about their big heroic military "actions" such as Stebie the wonder murine What keeps me laughing is that Lennie has mentioned my USMC service far more than I could ever hope to or want to! There you go - calling names. So typical. ...and utterly predictable. about his famous "seven hostile actions" Do you know what they are? Where *you* involved in any of them? He doesn't have any idea what they were. It kills him. Sure seems to. And I am more than happy to pull THAT "trigger"...! Don't leave out his attempts at insult by stating that my name never appeared in any lists of embassy staff. That blew up in his face when I produced a couple of urls in which I was listed. Len's response was to dismiss the lists as some sort of telephone directory. Oh yes - I do recall that now. He's tried to re-open that can of worms on a couple of occassions...It didn't work the first time...didn't work on the subsequent passes. Len knows more about what others did than those involved. Len knows more about the military. Len knows more about communications. Len knows more about radio operation. Len knows more about the U.S. Department of State. Len knows more about your work. Len knows more about Brian Kelly's work. Len knows more about Steve's work. Len doesn't know anything about my work. He could not do my job. That *really* bothers him. Part of Lennie's problem is that he didn't want to do much of HIS work...At least on one occassion that I have inside knowledge of. Or rather I SHOULD say he wasn't CAPABLE of doing his job...Hence his interrupted tenure at Warminster. My bad. Let's all stand up and salute this brave "member of the service." There you go again! So typical. I served. YOU did NOT. How does that give you the right to insult others' service? How does it give him the right to insult those who never served? Good question! Lennie signed on the dotted line and went to boot camp...wore the uniform, even. But can we call what he really did "serving"...?!?!? In even the loosest, most liberal interpretations, I guess he did... And his "I Am A War Hero Because I Served In A Unit That Had KIA's Before I Ever Got There" embellishments is like "negative points". You want to see more of what I did in ARMY service? No. You've told us over and over and over again. That's enough. Now you've done it, Jim. You've denigrated a veteran. How? Take away his Geritol and you'll see how! I simply don't want to read Len's story about ADA again. He's posted it here so many times I can recite it from memory. But he never explains why it has any bearing on amateur radio policy today. I don't want to read it again. Amen. 73 Steve, K4YZ |
wrote:
From: on Apr 12, 8:00 pm wrote: From: N2EY on Apr 12, 4:20 pm wrote: Lest WE forget..."N2EY" NEVER served in ANY war in ANY military. How do you know for sure, Len? You don't know for sure, do you, Len? Tsk. You aren't in the St. Louis database. :-) Does this database cover all military organizations, or just those of the USA? Did you know that people can change their names? What does it matter whether I served in any military or not? This newsgroup is amateur radio policy, not WW2. :-) There you go, Len, behaving like a jackass. Again. What does it matter whether I served in any military or not? Remember that WW2 ENDED BEFORE you were born. Why is that of any significance? If anything, it is more important that those of us who weren't alive then keep the history alive. ...so, you want to keep U.S. amateur radio as a living museum of morsemanship. Understand. Understood before, still understand that. :-) You don't understand jack, Len ;-) I live just up the hill from Valley Forge, where Washington's army survived a terrible winter. Also down the pike from where the Paoli Massacre took place. That's nice. Been there, seen that. So, WHAT does that have to do with amateur RADIO? About as much as you do, Len. IOW, nothing. That war ended long before *you* were born, Len. Absolutely...but, the American Revolutionary War did NOT involve either morse code or radio. So? Remember, this IS an amateur radio policy news- group, not some teary-eyed emotional hangout for those that NEVER served. Who is "teary-eyed"? Not me. And what does it matter anyway? Not to me, personally. Sure it does. You rag on it constantly. But, remember, this isn't the History Channel and you AIN'T a docent in it. Neither are you, Len. Yet you make this BIG THING about morse code in a window display... Is it wrong to mention an interesting architectural feature? Morse code is NOW an "interesting architectural feature?" The windows are an interesting architectural feature. So, you are now an amateur "architect?" :-) Sure - why not? Does it bother you, Len? Only in that you are such a transparent hypocrite. Naw, I'm really more of an honest mirror, showing your mistakes and errors. Really does bug you, it seems, when someone like me - whom you consider your inferior in every way - points out a mistake of yours, or can do something you can't. Here's a hint: The Canadian military forces used Morse Code in WW2. Wow! [...that's a BIG Ben Stein "wowwww...."] could it be that you just don't give a damn about WW2 and only want to make a big emotional showing for morse? Nope - not at all. I find the history of WW2 to be very interesting. I think it's important to understand that war, both how it got started and the aftermath, to understand current history. And technology. Tsk, tsk. Then you MUST understand that THIS venue is NOT for "warfare" or the technology of warfare. Then why do you gas us so much? You should also realize that morse code has HAD its day It's day is today, too. and is now obsolete for modern communications. That's simply not true, Len. Of course you get all worked up if anyone says anything good about Morse Code. So typical, so predictable. Obsolete for everyone but the retrograde self- aggrandizement elitist PCTA extras who USE morse skills to show how much "better" they are than all other "radio operators." Tsk, tsk. There you go - more jackass behavior from Len. For example, the very first high-speed, general purpose, digital electronic computer, ENIAC, was developed and built right here in Philadelphia - in the basement of the building where I went to EE school. I've actually seen and handled pieces of it, read the original papers in the library there. Poor baby, still BEHIND the times, reaching for glory on someone ELSE's work. Look again. Collossus over in the UK's Bletchley Park beat ENIAC in the time frame. Bzzt, wrong. Colussus wasn't general purpose. Not only that, John Atanasoff's little group over at Ohio State was before BOTH of them. :-) The Atanasoff-Berry Computer (ABC) was never fully completed or operational. ENIAC was. You really DON'T know your own industry's history well and you are griping about others. Tsk, tsk, tsk. You don't know jack about computer history, Len. It was built to compute artillery aiming tables for the US Army, and was used for ten years at the Aberdeen Proving Grounds. There's also an unconfirmed story that it was used for atom bomb calculations. Sounds like you've been irradiated to sterility of the mind. Nope. Just the facts. LOTS of calculation places were busy doing ordinance table calculations way back then. Of course. And ENIAC could do in couple of seconds what they took days or weeks to do. That's a fact. Bell Labs had a RELAY calculator...actually three of them in one of the first computer "networks" in NYC. Before ENIAC was started. Those relay machines were electromechanical, not electronic. They worked but were very slow compared to ENIAC - not high-speed at all. Tsk, tsk. Get WITH the history program! Get with the facts, Len. Or let's talk about the lessons to be learned from the US Navy Mark XIV submarine torpedo, and its problems. Oh! You are now an Expert Extra on USN ordinance? I don't claim to be an expert about anything, Len. But I do know the lessons of the Mark XIV. Do you? Remember, this is an AMATEUR RADIO POLICY newsgroup. Then perhaps you should stay on the subject. Perhaps the proximity fuse is more to your liking. Incredible device, made with tubes originally meant for hearing aids. Tsk, tsk. You had a "prox" go off on YOU, sweetums. Remember, this is an AMATEUR RADIO POLICY newsgroup. I could go on about the political and economic effects, but since this is a radio newsgroup I thought I'd stick to electronic and radio subjects. Remember, this is an AMATEUR RADIO POLICY newsgroup. Yet you go off on lot of tangents... If I did talk about any military service I had, you would be certain to make fun of it. It's just what you do, Len. So typical. But...you did NOT serve...so HOW can you "talk about" something that NEVER happened? It's called a hypothetical, Len. If I served, you'd make fun of my service. It's what you do when someone disagrees with you. Remember, this is an AMATEUR RADIO POLICY newsgroup. I haven't dissed Bill Sohl about his USN service. Because he doesn't disagree with you about Morse Code testing in amateur radio. In fact, he pretty much ignores you. Bill hasn't been here much. That means he "ignored" YOU, too! :-) When Bill was here, he and I discussed many amateur radio policy issues in a civil manner. I haven't dissed Brian Burke about his USAF service. Because he doesn't disagree with you about Morse Code testing in amateur radio. In fact, he pretty much idolizes you. Irrelevant for THIS thread, sweetums. :-) No, completely relevant. It's only those who disagree with you about Morse Code testing that get your disrespect, abuse, name calling, and general jackass behavior. Oooooooo! Big PCTA EXTRA tossing your weight around? Not me, Len. Hello? Does the "sign-off" word "PUTZ" mean anything to you? :-) I've never called anyone a PUTZ, here, Len. Does Kolonel Klunk's "you never did any operating 24/7 in the military" mean anything to you? :-) Only that you never did anything requiring consciousness 24/7, Len. Can you stay awake 168 continuous hours? I HAVE dissed those that want to LIE about their big heroic military "actions" such as Stebie the wonder murine There you go - calling names. So typical. Ooooooo! Causing you "great pain and anguish" is it? Nope. Just pointing it out. about his famous "seven hostile actions" Do you know what they are? Nope...the big hero sojer in da TN woods won't say! Are you reading deprived and can't understand what your pet buddy is saying about others? You are more responsible for how he behaves than I am, Len. Where *you* involved in any of them? Now, HOW could I have been "in" them? My service time was 1952 to 1960. Check with St. Louis archives if you don't believe that. :-) Is there any reason to doubt that Steve, K4YZ, was involved if he says he was? HUNDREDS OF DOUBTS! :-) IOW, none at all. and his failure to acknowledge that the DoD really does direct MARS. I see. His mistake somehow justifies *your* behavior? Just ONE of DOZENS of his "mistakes." :-) He'll have to work hard to catch up to you, then. Godwin invoked. You lose. Do you go to the House of Godwin on Sundays? Sorry, sweetums, I've WON but you can't ever admit it. Why not use the person's name and callsign? Why don't others? Why don't you? |
wrote: The new Canadian War Museum opens May 7-8 http://www.warmuseum.ca/cwm/opening/celebrate_e.html Some of the windows spell out "Lest We Forget" in Morse Code. 73 de Jim, N2EY I thought that people went to Canada to avoid war, and here they dedicate a museum to war. Wonder where Jim went to engineering school? |
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From: on Wed,Apr 13 2005 4:28 am
Dave Heil wrote: wrote: wrote: From: N2EY on Apr 12, 4:20 pm wrote: most skipped for brevity... I simply don't want to read Len's story about ADA again. He's posted it here so many times I can recite it from memory. But he never explains why it has any bearing on amateur radio policy today. I've already explained the "bearing it has" years ago. Let's take it again, from the top... Back in the beginning of the 1950s, the U.S. military was NOT using any morse code modes for long-distance point-to-point communications. Most of that message "traffic" was written teleprinter that carried the vast majority of military communications. NO morse code modes were used on such radio circuits afterwards. That SHOULD have some meaning to rational persons insofar as the efficacy of morse code for communications...in short, morse code was way too slow, too prone to human errors by its operators, and generally so inefficient that, by now, EVERY other radio service has either DROPPED the mode (if they used it at all in the past) or NEVER CONSIDERED it when that radio service began. The sole exception is AMATEUR radio...a hobby pursuit, a recreation, something done on free time for enjoyment. For over half a century (actually, since before WW2) the brunt of messaging in the military has been done by modes OTHER than morse code. An approximation of the amount of such military traffic is a minimum of 1 1/2 MILLION messages a MONTH back in 1955. It was not trivial, it wasn't confined to a few ship's radio rooms. It was the logistical supply "glue" that enabled the United States military to support itself worldwide. It was necessary to keep "getting the messages through" as the old, and still current, Signal Corps phrase puts it. It should be obvious to rational people that there is NO need for any morse code testing for a hobby radio activity. It is NOT a "national service." It is NOT needed to "maintain a reserve of 'skilled' radio operators" for the nation or even a locality. What morse code testing for a hobby radio activity has become is a travesty, a gross artificiality kept in there by old-timers who managed to pass such tests and keep insisting that all newcomers MUST do as they did. There is NO rational reason for that. There is only the artificiality of some hazing exercise so that those who pass can adopt the artificiality of doing something that few can. Nonsense. I don't want to read it again. Naturally, since you are one of those old-timers who thinks of little else but morse code operation on the HF amateur bands. You want to enforce your own private desires and accomplishment goals on others regardless of their wishes or the irrationality of your demands. You don't want to read it because someone else was able to be in a position to do REAL HF communications all the time. That's way above the average amateur experience. You resent knowing that another has done it. But...you are going to have to live with it. "It ain't braggin if ya done it..." I did it. |
From: on Wed,Apr 13 2005 4:28 am
Dave Heil wrote: wrote: wrote: From: N2EY on Apr 12, 4:20 pm wrote: most skipped for brevity... I simply don't want to read Len's story about ADA again. He's posted it here so many times I can recite it from memory. But he never explains why it has any bearing on amateur radio policy today. I've already explained the "bearing it has" years ago. Let's take it again, from the top... Back in the beginning of the 1950s, the U.S. military was NOT using any morse code modes for long-distance point-to-point communications. Most of that message "traffic" was written teleprinter that carried the vast majority of military communications. NO morse code modes were used on such radio circuits afterwards. That SHOULD have some meaning to rational persons insofar as the efficacy of morse code for communications...in short, morse code was way too slow, too prone to human errors by its operators, and generally so inefficient that, by now, EVERY other radio service has either DROPPED the mode (if they used it at all in the past) or NEVER CONSIDERED it when that radio service began. The sole exception is AMATEUR radio...a hobby pursuit, a recreation, something done on free time for enjoyment. For over half a century (actually, since before WW2) the brunt of messaging in the military has been done by modes OTHER than morse code. An approximation of the amount of such military traffic is a minimum of 1 1/2 MILLION messages a MONTH back in 1955. It was not trivial, it wasn't confined to a few ship's radio rooms. It was the logistical supply "glue" that enabled the United States military to support itself worldwide. It was necessary to keep "getting the messages through" as the old, and still current, Signal Corps phrase puts it. It should be obvious to rational people that there is NO need for any morse code testing for a hobby radio activity. It is NOT a "national service." It is NOT needed to "maintain a reserve of 'skilled' radio operators" for the nation or even a locality. What morse code testing for a hobby radio activity has become is a travesty, a gross artificiality kept in there by old-timers who managed to pass such tests and keep insisting that all newcomers MUST do as they did. There is NO rational reason for that. There is only the artificiality of some hazing exercise so that those who pass can adopt the artificiality of doing something that few can. Nonsense. I don't want to read it again. Naturally, since you are one of those old-timers who thinks of little else but morse code operation on the HF amateur bands. You want to enforce your own private desires and accomplishment goals on others regardless of their wishes or the irrationality of your demands. You don't want to read it because someone else was able to be in a position to do REAL HF communications all the time. That's way above the average amateur experience. You resent knowing that another has done it. But...you are going to have to live with it. "It ain't braggin if ya done it..." I did it. |
wrote:
From: on Wed,Apr 13 2005 4:28 am Dave Heil wrote: wrote: wrote: From: N2EY on Apr 12, 4:20 pm wrote: most skipped for brevity... I simply don't want to read Len's story about ADA again. He's posted it here so many times I can recite it from memory. But he never explains why it has any bearing on amateur radio policy today. I've already explained the "bearing it has" years ago. Let's take it again, from the top... snip Let's don't. Dave K8MN |
wrote:
From: on Wed,Apr 13 2005 4:28 am Dave Heil wrote: wrote: wrote: From: N2EY on Apr 12, 4:20 pm wrote: most skipped for brevity... I simply don't want to read Len's story about ADA again. He's posted it here so many times I can recite it from memory. But he never explains why it has any bearing on amateur radio policy today. I've already explained the "bearing it has" years ago. Let's take it again, from the top... Not the first time, not the second time. snip Dave K8MN |
bb wrote: wrote: What does it matter whether I served in any military or not? Kind of makes it hard to be a Veteran if you didn't serve. But then comes you. A licensee with no antenna. In your case one has to conclude that becoming a Veteran was easier than putting up an antenna. |
bb wrote: wrote: What does it matter whether I served in any military or not? Kind of makes it hard to be a Veteran if you didn't serve. Where has Jim EVER claimed ANY aspect of military or federal service, Brian? Now answer the man's question. Here's a hint: The Canadian military forces used Morse Code in WW2. Oh, now I see the connections. Because you saw photos of Ham soldiers in QST, and you're a ham, you "served" by extension. The coat-tail connection. You really are in a max-putz mode today, aren't you? WHERE did Jim EVER claim to be a Veteran? WHERE did he EVER say he "served" in the Armed Forces? I could go on about the political and economic effects, but since this is a radio newsgroup I thought I'd stick to electronic and radio subjects. And Canadian war museum topics. That happened to have a connection to radio communications. You see, Brian, THAT is why you catch the flak taht yopu do for your behaviour. Just like Lennie, you like to stop where it serves you to do so and ignore facts. If I did talk about any military service I had, you would be certain to make fun of it. It's just what you do, Len. So typical. You "served" in other ways. And Kelly has "real" military experience. Do YOU, Brain? You were only a weatherman in the USAF. We can make all sorts of issues if you want. It's only those who disagree with you about Morse Code testing that get your disrespect, abuse, name calling, and general jack(expletive deleted] behavior. Do you eat with that mouth? Sure he does. You kiss your wife with the same lips you have on Lennie's butt all the time...Does SHE complain? Is there any reason to doubt that Steve, K4YZ, was involved if he says he was? Is there any reason to not apply Steve's rules of facts to Steve's claims? There are no "rules of facts". Things either "are" or they "are not". Like your ARES claims (are not true). And your Somalia claims (are not true). Then there's your "unlicensed devices" claims. (are not true). I see. His mistake somehow justifies *your* behavior? Mistake? He's had ample opportunity to correct that mistake. Instead he piles up the lies. Thee was no mistake. YOU have yet to cite a single error or lie, Brain. You keep claiming one after another refuse to cite why ANY statement is a "lie". There you go again - calling names. "jack(expletive deleted] behavior" Godwin invoked. You lose. Why not use the person's name and callsign? Kim, W5TIT. Miccolis invoked. You lose. Rest of your double-standards snipped. If "double standards" were "snipped", you'd be extinct already. Steve, K4YZ |
wrote: bb wrote: wrote: What does it matter whether I served in any military or not? Kind of makes it hard to be a Veteran if you didn't serve. But then comes you. A licensee with no antenna. In your case one has to conclude that becoming a Veteran was easier than putting up an antenna. Brian P Burke and Leonard H Anderson both epitomize all of the things that give other veterans a black eye. I would not want to be in a social setting where their status as veterans was known and then announce that I was a vet too. That's one "guilty by association" that I will gladly avoid. Steve, K4YZ |
wrote:
From: on Wed,Apr 13 2005 4:28 am Dave Heil wrote: wrote: wrote: From: N2EY on Apr 12, 4:20 pm wrote: I simply don't want to read Len's story about ADA again. He's posted it here so many times I can recite it from memory. But he never explains why it has any bearing on amateur radio policy today. I've already explained the "bearing it has" years ago. No, you didn't. Not how *your* experience at ADA (a military radio station) has any bearing, or relevance, to amateur radio policy today. Let's take it again, from the top... Back in the beginning of the 1950s, the U.S. military was NOT using any morse code modes for long-distance point-to-point communications. How do you know this for sure? Granted, you didn't see any "morse code modes" in use at ADA. But to say there was none used at all, anywhere in the US military is a different thing. What's interesting is that you have to qualify the statement as "long-distance point-to-point communications" - because Morse Code was then still being used *extensively* by the US Navy, by the maritime radio services, by aircraft and by many other radio services such as press services. Your tunnel vision of "long-distance point-to-point communications" by the US military is about as relevant as the fact that Morse Code wasn't in use on the AM broadcast band in the 1930s. Most of that message "traffic" was written teleprinter that carried the vast majority of military communications. Yep. And it was on fixed, predetermined frequencies, using equipment most individuals could not afford to buy. And it was *not* the kind of communications that make up the vast majority of amateur radio communications. NO morse code modes were used on such radio circuits afterwards. At some point, anyway. The US Navy was still using Morse Code long after the beginning of the 1950s. So was the Coast Guard. They are "US military". That SHOULD have some meaning to rational persons insofar as the efficacy of morse code for communications... There you go, Len, assuming your conclusion. What you're saying is that because the Army didn't use it, nobody should use it. Here's a hint: Ham radio isn't the US Army. When Uncle Sam is willing to buy radios for all hams, then maybe you'll have a point. in short, morse code was way too slow, For some applications, yes. But not for many applications. too prone to human errors by its operators, All communications modes are prone to operator error. The person typing on a teleprinter can make a mistake, too. and generally so inefficient that, Nope. You just don't like the mode. by now, EVERY other radio service has either DROPPED the mode (if they used it at all in the past) or NEVER CONSIDERED it when that radio service began. So what, Len? That's like saying that since almost all motor vehicles don't have manual transmissions anymore, no vehicles should have them. gave up having The main reason Morse Code was replaced by other modes in other radio services is that it required skilled operators at both ends of the circuit. Skilled operators cost money and have to be taken care of, and the speed and accuracy of communications is limited to their skill level. So the skilled operator was eliminated by technology, to save time and money. What you're saying, then, is that you want to eliminate the skilled operators from ham radio, too. The sole exception is AMATEUR radio... It's all those things - and a lot more. For over half a century (actually, since before WW2) the brunt of messaging in the military has been done by modes OTHER than morse code. Even if true, (it's not) so what? Ham radio isn't "the military", and amateur radio communications isn't only about "messaging". You're argument says that since most US Navy ships stopped relying on the wind for propulsion long ago, nobody should own a sailboat today, even for "a hobby pursuit, a recreation, something done on free time for enjoyment." Very illogical. An approximation of the amount of such military traffic is a minimum of 1 1/2 MILLION messages a MONTH back in 1955. So what? Hams don't have the same resources, nor the same basis and purpose. The old Bell Telephone system handled a lot more than 1.5 million "messages" a month back then, too. It was not trivial, it wasn't confined to a few ship's radio rooms. It was the logistical supply "glue" that enabled the United States military to support itself worldwide. It was necessary to keep "getting the messages through" as the old, and still current, Signal Corps phrase puts it. And it required how many people to do it all? At a cost of how many millions of taxpayer dollars? What possible connection does that have to the self-trained, self-funded amateur radio operator? It should be obvious to rational people that there is NO need for any morse code testing for a hobby radio activity. There's where you make an illogical jump. You hold up what the US military allegedly did, then say it's somehow connected to what hams should do. But you never say what the connection is. Just that "it's obvious to rational people" - which it isn't. It is NOT a "national service." Actually, amateur radio is internationally recognized by treaty, and it's a radio service. It is NOT needed to "maintain a reserve of 'skilled' radio operators" for the nation or even a locality. Sure it is. Just ask those folks who ran the recent emergency drills. They were very appreciative of the contributions of amateur radio operators. What morse code testing for a hobby radio activity has become is a travesty, a gross artificiality kept in there by old-timers who managed to pass such tests and keep insisting that all newcomers MUST do as they did. No, that's simply not true at all. It's just your way of rationalizing your hatred, Len. There is NO rational reason for that. Sure there is. Here ya go: Since amateur radio operators *do* use Morse Code extensively, today, on the air, for a wide variety of activities, it is perfectly obvious to rational people that a basic test of Morse code skill is a reasonable test requirement for a license. That's the whole thing, right there. There is only the artificiality of some hazing exercise so that those who pass can adopt the artificiality of doing something that few can. Nope. It's a bout a basic skill, that's all. Almost anyone can do it. Nonsense. Yes, that's what your arguments and insults amount to. I don't want to read it again. Naturally, since you are one of those old-timers who thinks of little else but morse code operation on the HF amateur bands. No, that's not true at all. That's just one of my interests. You want to enforce your own private desires and accomplishment goals on others regardless of their wishes or the irrationality of your demands. That's a pretty good description of *your* purpose here, Len! You don't want to read it because someone else was able to be in a position to do REAL HF communications all the time. So what hams do, and did, isn't "REAL"? Then why are you so concerned about it? And even you can't do it all the time, Len. That's way above the average amateur experience. No it isn't. It's *different from* the amateur radio experience. Just like riding in a commercial airliner is different from flying your own private aircraft. You resent knowing that another has done it. I don't resent it at all, Len. I'm just bored by your constant repetition of the same old story and illogical conclusions. But...you are going to have to live with it. Why? "It ain't braggin if ya done it..." I did it. All by yourself? Or were there hundreds - thousands - of others there too, backed up by the enormous resources of the USA - both civilian and military? And you still haven't explained how what happened at ADA a half-century ago has any relevance to ham radio today. Here's one more analogy to your alleged logic: Inexpensive calculators have been around for a couple of decades now. Almost nobody in business or the professions relies on manual arithmetic anymore - even the smallest businesses, for example, use electronic cash registers to do the calculations. Where such manual calculation was once done, it has been completely replaced by electronic methods. Manual calculation is too slow, too error-prone, and too dependent on human skill. Therefore, we should not require anyone to learn how to do such calculations as addition, subtraction, multiplication or division, let alone square roots or other techniques. That's what you're saying. And it's nonsense. |
bb wrote: wrote: The new Canadian War Museum opens May 7-8 http://www.warmuseum.ca/cwm/opening/celebrate_e.html Some of the windows spell out "Lest We Forget" in Morse Code. 73 de Jim, N2EY I thought that people went to Canada to avoid war, and here they dedicate a museum to war. Wonder where Jim went to engineering school? They do have a significant military. - Mike KB3EIA - |
wrote: wrote: From: on Wed,Apr 13 2005 4:28 am Dave Heil wrote: wrote: wrote: From: N2EY on Apr 12, 4:20 pm wrote: I simply don't want to read Len's story about ADA again. He's posted it here so many times I can recite it from memory. But he never explains why it has any bearing on amateur radio policy today. I've already explained the "bearing it has" years ago. No, you didn't. Not how *your* experience at ADA (a military radio station) has any bearing, or relevance, to amateur radio policy today. Let's take it again, from the top... Back in the beginning of the 1950s, the U.S. military was NOT using any morse code modes for long-distance point-to-point communications. How do you know this for sure? Granted, you didn't see any "morse code modes" in use at ADA. But to say there was none used at all, anywhere in the US military is a different thing. What's interesting is that you have to qualify the statement as "long-distance point-to-point communications" - because Morse Code was then still being used *extensively* by the US Navy, by the maritime radio services, by aircraft and by many other radio services such as press services. Yeah...Let's just forget that this forum has had at least two participants who had career-length service in military communications who have testified that Morse Code was INDEED in daily use. Morse Code is STILL taught to this day in the Armed Forces. Your tunnel vision of "long-distance point-to-point communications" by the US military is about as relevant as the fact that Morse Code wasn't in use on the AM broadcast band in the 1930s. Most of that message "traffic" was written teleprinter that carried the vast majority of military communications. Yep. And it was on fixed, predetermined frequencies, using equipment most individuals could not afford to buy. And it was *not* the kind of communications that make up the vast majority of amateur radio communications. NO morse code modes were used on such radio circuits afterwards. At some point, anyway. The US Navy was still using Morse Code long after the beginning of the 1950s. So was the Coast Guard. They are "US military". Didn't Hans put that well into the 70's for the Navy? And I believe Jeff said the Coast Guard still had SOME facilities into the 80's? For over half a century (actually, since before WW2) the brunt of messaging in the military has been done by modes OTHER than morse code. Even if true, (it's not) so what? Ham radio isn't "the military", and amateur radio communications isn't only about "messaging". You're argument says that since most US Navy ships stopped relying on the wind for propulsion long ago, nobody should own a sailboat today, even for "a hobby pursuit, a recreation, something done on free time for enjoyment." Very illogical. Yep. And since we have drag lines and other "commercial" methods of fishing, no one may use a hook, line and sinker any more. Who needs it? An approximation of the amount of such military traffic is a minimum of 1 1/2 MILLION messages a MONTH back in 1955. So what? Hams don't have the same resources, nor the same basis and purpose. I say that was Bravo Sierra. Bravo Sierra in spades. That would have been 50,000 pieces of traffic A DAY. It should be obvious to rational people that there is NO need for any morse code testing for a hobby radio activity. There's where you make an illogical jump. You hold up what the US military allegedly did, then say it's somehow connected to what hams should do. For CB radio, absolutely. For Radio Control models, no contest. For Part 15 experimenters, no doubt. For an Amateur Radio license on HF...you don't know what you're talking about, Lennie. It is NOT a "national service." Actually, amateur radio is internationally recognized by treaty, and it's a radio service. It's an internationally recognized resource that is codified into law, and, despite Lennie's protestations to the contrary, DOES provide a service within the United States of America. His attempts to draw parallels between "The Amateur Radio Service" and Amateur Radio as a "service" vis-a-vis the Armed Forces is worn, lame, and ineffective. It is NOT needed to "maintain a reserve of 'skilled' radio operators" for the nation or even a locality. Sure it is. Just ask those folks who ran the recent emergency drills. They were very appreciative of the contributions of amateur radio operators. And again Lennie utters an assertion in the face of FACTS to the contrary and demonstrates his own utterly failed understanding of what it's all about... There is only the artificiality of some hazing exercise so that those who pass can adopt the artificiality of doing something that few can. Nope. It's a bout a basic skill, that's all. Almost anyone can do it. Blind and deaf persons have passed the Morse Code exam. Lennie has made occassional statements that he was, at least at one time, proficient in Morse Code at about 8-10WPM. If Lennie can do it, then ABSOLUTELY any one else can do it! Naturally, since you are one of those old-timers who thinks of little else but morse code operation on the HF amateur bands. No, that's not true at all. That's just one of my interests. I wonder why Lennie keeps trying to bouy that lie when tons and tons of conversations in this forum have demonstrated otherwise...?!?! "It ain't braggin if ya done it..." I did it. All by yourself? Or were there hundreds - thousands - of others there too, backed up by the enormous resources of the USA - both civilian and military? We remember the "1.2 million message" claim from two years ago, Lennie...Back then you tried to make it sound as if it was YOUR doings alone. Then you switched gears after a bit of elementary school math rubbed the numbers in your face and 'admitted' that it was a 'team effort' at ADA. It still doesn't put YOU in the comm center other than to change broken black boxes, because YOUR MOS's were as a radio mechanic. You were never a radio operator in the Armed Forces. Now, in THIS post, it was "1 1/5 MILLION messages average for "military traffic" in 1955", so you've even further diluted your original boasts. Before long you'll be claiming how you saved the Postal Service because you licked a stamp to send mom and dad a letter. And you still haven't explained how what happened at ADA a half-century ago has any relevance to ham radio today. Here's one more analogy to your alleged logic: Inexpensive calculators have been around for a couple of decades now. Almost nobody in business or the professions relies on manual arithmetic anymore - even the smallest businesses, for example, use electronic cash registers to do the calculations. Where such manual calculation was once done, it has been completely replaced by electronic methods. Manual calculation is too slow, too error-prone, and too dependent on human skill. Therefore, we should not require anyone to learn how to do such calculations as addition, subtraction, multiplication or division, let alone square roots or other techniques. That's what you're saying. And it's nonsense. A...yup! 73 Steve, K4YZ |
"K4YZ" wrote in message ups.com... Didn't Hans put that well into the 70's for the Navy? No, Hans didn't. The last significant use of Morse in the Navy was in the late 50's/early 60's. This usage was by small-boys, DD and smaller, on "fox" broadcasts and "A1" ship/shore circuits. Both uses ended with fleetwide deployment of Jason and Orestes circuits in the early 60's. Morse training for general duty Navy RM's ceased at the same time, and Morse operator became a specialized NEC (MOS to you grunts) held by only a few sailors, mostly in SPECOM branches (intercept operators, etc.). The single operational Morse use which survived was the VLF SSBN transmissions (two transmitters, one Cutler, ME and the other at Jim Creek, WA). That was a simple slow-speed beaconing system which notified boomers to pop up their satcomm antennas for the actual communications. 73, de Hans, K0HB Master Chief Radioman, US Navy |
K=D8HB wrote: "K4YZ" wrote in message ups.com... Didn't Hans put that well into the 70's for the Navy? No, Hans didn't. Thank-you for the correction. Master Chief Radioman, US Navy You forgot something..."Retired". Steve, K4YZ |
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wrote:
From: Dave Heil on Apr 12, 9:31 pm wrote: wrote: From: N2EY on Apr 12, 4:20 pm wrote: Does it bother you, Len? You read his lengthy post and saw the style he used. You bet it bothered him. NAH. I did it. Jimmie didn't do it. So? To be fair, Len has exhibited jackass behavior toward K0HB and Hans does not support retention of morse code testing. Tsk. Everyone who disagrees with Davie is guilty of "jackass behavior?" :-) That's quite incorrect. You, Lena Anderson, exhibits jackass behavior :-) Riiiight...only ARRL-speak and the beauty, nobility, and grandeur of morsemanship is spoken in here...:-) What is ARRL-speak? about his famous "seven hostile actions" Do you know what they are? Where *you* involved in any of them? He doesn't have any idea what they were. It kills him. NAH. It only shows what a snow-jobbing laid-off murine does under the guise of a U.S. AMATEUR radio extra callsign. Tosses brags like they were bagels. In your view, anyone who does anything not blessed by you is a snow job. Anyone except you who was in the military and is now out of the military is laid off. An Amateur Extra callsign with the "amateur" in capital letters is something to be derided. To my knowledge, Steve has never stated that DOD does not direct MARS. His claim is that if there were no radio amateurs, there'd have been no MARS program. In that, he is correct. Bull****. My statement is quite correct. The United States ARMY started MARS...but under a different name before WW2. Tsk. I'm well aware of that. Davie ought to read up on the subject...lots of references. Lena is the one who should read up on it. AACS and MARS (with the "A" standing for "Amateur" were the names used in the past. The current Military Affliate Radio System would not be in existence without radio amateurs. I first participated in the MARS program in 1969. I last participated in 1985. I participated in the program on the military side in 1969 from the U.S. and in 1971 from Vietnam as a volunteer (quite separate from my other military communications duties. MARS always was and remains a MILITARY radio system. No kidding? Duh. A small one, about as effective as having special services put on shows and entertainment. You must be thinking of something different than MARS. Morale boosting thing. It certainly was that. That's pretty much why I've left details out. As with Steve's military service, Len doesn't know what I did or where I did it and it kills him. No problem with me. Apparently it is a problem for you. You've alluded to it on a number of occasions. If you ain't got the guts to tell the details, you AIN'T done it. Simple as that. No, it isn't quite that simple. It has nothing to do with guts. It has to do with having seen how you treat the experiences of others while trumpeting your own. ...and Len has invariably demeaned that service. He has always known more about my job that I did. Foreign service tours were dismissed as tropical backwaters, places of insignificance and Cashew capitals. Awwwww...you doing a Rodney Dangerfield? Get no "respect?" :-) No comedy, Len, but your insulting behavior over things you aren't in a position to know. Don't leave out his attempts at insult by stating that my name never appeared in any lists of embassy staff. That blew up in his face when I produced a couple of urls in which I was listed. Len's response was to dismiss the lists as some sort of telephone directory. Tsk. Sounds like you are bucking for an Intelligence Star. Couldn't you get a sponsor at the NSA to award you one? Did I write anything of that? Your two-step doesn't disguise that you aren't in a position to deny my statement. Because Len is all about Len. That isn't the important part though. The important part is where Len's sphincter post speaks of what it is like to be in battle. Len was never in battle. Only ONE very brief exchange of gunfire. Did you fire a weapon, Len? Was one fired directly at you? If so, was it from the enemy? Doesn't count as a "battle," though. Then it certain doesn't count as an artillery barrage, does it? Want to recount your "sphincter post" or shall I? Big Hero Dave...tell us all YOUR "battle experience." I've never claimed to be any kind of hero, much less a big one and I've never ever posted or written any kind of manufactured tale like your "sphinter post". Were you behind the Viet Cong lines sending intel to HQ via CW? You might actually find the information if you had enough knowledge of how to use a search engine. As far as I'm concerned, amateur radio is about operating any mode I choose on any band I choose. Len isn't involved on any level. Everyone NOT licensed in amateur radio "isn't involved." :-) Oh, the FCC is involved here in the United States but you don't work for the Commission nor are you a radio amateur. The point is that some MIGHT want to GET INTO amateur radio. Dave loses his perspective on that. [age causing loss of sight...among other things...] I've not lost sight of that, Len. I have a stake in what kind of qualifications aspiring hams demonstrate in order to enter amateur radio. Davie ought to get with Paul Schleck pronto and have EVERYONE without a valid amateur radio license TOSSED OFF this newsgroup! Has Paul Schleck advocated such a thing? I know I haven't. Make it "safe" for the double- standard elitist PCTA EXTRAs to use as their personal chat room and blog... :-) There are plenty of radio amateurs who post here who don't hold Extra Class tickets. FYI, this isn't a chat room or a blog. Familiarize yourself with the definitions of those terms. Len knows more about what others did than those involved. Nope. But...I DO recognize a bull**** artist from a long distance. Davie be one of those... I'm sure you practiced that recognition from a much, much closer range. Len knows more about the military. I know enough to meet THIS level of homo saps. :-) It is evident that you do not. Been IN the Army...had lots of contact with Army as a civilian after service time done. So? Len knows more about communications. Tsk. I know some about that. Been IN that as a civilian. :-) So have many others. I was a civilian in communications in my last position. Len knows more about radio operation. Tsk. I know HOW they work and the protocols needed in some radio services. Some radio services? Whoop-de-doo! You have a need of info on those radio services, big honcho? No, I'm quite comfortable that I knowledge I have is quite sufficient for what I did for a living and what I do now. Len knows more about the U.S. Department of State. I do? Oh, my, aren't you stepping off into denied territory! :-) It wasn't denied territory to me, Len. You made statements about that which you did not and could not know. Len knows more about your work. Tsk. Jimmie "works in the transportation field" according to one Comment in the ECFS. Other than that, Jimmie do NOT say squat. He afraid others find out? I don't believe that Jim is afraid at all. I think he has observed your actions and that he is being prudent. Len knows more about Brian Kelly's work. I do? Oh, my. News to me. Isn't Kellie retired? Is he? Len knows more about Steve's work. Tsk. Stevie follows REAL DOCTORS' orders...which includes staying OUT of the Sharps box. :-) So you know nothing of his work. Whatever Len did at ADA more than a half century ago impacts amateur radio not in the least. Riiiiight old-timer. Ham radio NEVER operated on HF, did it? :-) Are you sure that the above is the response you'd like to make to my statement? Len tells it because he wants to be sure that everyone knows of it. (the frequent retelling of his ADA tale from 50+ years ago) You betcha! :-) It was obvious. The U.S. military did NOT use morse code in long-distance fixed-point to fixed-point communications a half century ago and still don't. Tsk. Some of you olde-tyme hammes need to get your noses out of old WW2 surplus radio books and inspect the rest of the radio world. If we were to desire operating in the rest of the radio world, I'm sure we would. That radio amateur continue to use morse daily, seems to have escaped your notice. How does it give him the right to insult those who never served? Tsk, tsk, tsk. Those with SUCH thin skin should NOT be ANYWHERE on the Internet!!!! :-) Really? Is this from the Gospel according to St. Leonard? Your bluster is just that--bluster. Now you've done it, Jim. You've denigrated a veteran. Jimmie (and Davie...and Stevie...and every other elitist double-standard PCTA EXTRA) will, without doubt, insult ANYONE they care to. ....or they might insult those who have constantly insulted them, someone who is not involved in amateur radio in the smallest way. It's in the fine print of their ham privileges as super-dooper under-the-dashboard douche bag guar-un-teed morsemanship EXTRA AMATEURS!!!! What is any of that to you? You aren't involved in amateur radio. Dave |
K4YZ wrote: wrote: bb wrote: wrote: What does it matter whether I served in any military or not? Kind of makes it hard to be a Veteran if you didn't serve. But then comes you. A licensee with no antenna. In your case one has to conclude that becoming a Veteran was easier than putting up an antenna. Brian P Burke and Leonard H Anderson both epitomize all of the things that give other veterans a black eye. I would not want to be in a social setting where their status as veterans was known and then announce that I was a vet too. That's one "guilty by association" that I will gladly avoid. Steve, K4YZ There is no guilt in military service, unless you lie about it. Like saying that you have "real military experience" when you don't, or saying that you have "seven hostile actions" when you have none. Best of Luck. |
K4YZ wrote: bb wrote: wrote: What does it matter whether I served in any military or not? Kind of makes it hard to be a Veteran if you didn't serve. Where has Jim EVER claimed ANY aspect of military or federal service, Brian? Quiterecently Jim has left it open whether he's served or not. Now answer the man's question. Jim did not direct his question to me. Here's a hint: The Canadian military forces used Morse Code in WW2. Oh, now I see the connections. Because you saw photos of Ham soldiers in QST, and you're a ham, you "served" by extension. The coat-tail connection. You really are in a max-putz mode today, aren't you? Sayonara-head to you, too. WHERE did Jim EVER claim to be a Veteran? WHERE did he EVER say he "served" in the Armed Forces? He said that he served in unmentionable ways. I could go on about the political and economic effects, but since this is a radio newsgroup I thought I'd stick to electronic and radio subjects. And Canadian war museum topics. That happened to have a connection to radio communications. Just "radio communications?" I thought this was the exclusive domain of AMATEUR radio communications? Other forms of radio communications knowledge and experiences have absolutely no bearing on this group. You see, Brian, THAT is why you catch the flak taht yopu do for your behaviour. Spell much? Just like Lennie, you like to stop where it serves you to do so and ignore facts. You'se guys have repeatedly said that this is about AMATEUR radio. Not other radios and other radio services. If I did talk about any military service I had, you would be certain to make fun of it. It's just what you do, Len. So typical. You "served" in other ways. And Kelly has "real" military experience. Do YOU, Brain? You were only a weatherman in the USAF. We can make all sorts of issues if you want. Yup. I aimed high. You aimed low. Jim and Kelly missed the target altogether. It's only those who disagree with you about Morse Code testing that get your disrespect, abuse, name calling, and general jack(expletive deleted] behavior. Do you eat with that mouth? Sure he does. You kiss your wife with the same lips you have on Lennie's butt all the time...Does SHE complain? Interesting statement. Is that an opinion or is it an assertion of fact? Is there any reason to doubt that Steve, K4YZ, was involved if he says he was? Is there any reason to not apply Steve's rules of facts to Steve's claims? There are no "rules of facts". If a "fact" has no documentation, then it's a "lie." Things either "are" or they "are not". Like: No Documentation = Lies. Like "seven hostile actions" is a figment of your disturbed mind. Like your ARES claims (are not true). I proved it true. And your Somalia claims (are not true). Just because I won't send you a QSL card... Then there's your "unlicensed devices" claims. (are not true). What's not true? I see. His mistake somehow justifies *your* behavior? Mistake? He's had ample opportunity to correct that mistake. Instead he piles up the lies. Thee was no mistake. Thee is a mistake. YOU have yet to cite a single error or lie, Brain. You keep claiming one after another refuse to cite why ANY statement is a "lie". Many of your lies are so obviously lies that There you go again - calling names. "jack(expletive deleted] behavior" Godwin invoked. You lose. Why not use the person's name and callsign? Kim, W5TIT. Miccolis invoked. You lose. Rest of your double-standards snipped. If "double standards" were "snipped", you'd be extinct already. I would not exist to you, Steve, because you would cease to exist. How is it that Jim can say to use a person's name and call, yet he repeatedly snipped Kim's call in his replies to her??? Miccolis invoked. Miccolis loses. |
Michael Coslo wrote: bb wrote: wrote: The new Canadian War Museum opens May 7-8 http://www.warmuseum.ca/cwm/opening/celebrate_e.html Some of the windows spell out "Lest We Forget" in Morse Code. 73 de Jim, N2EY I thought that people went to Canada to avoid war, and here they dedicate a museum to war. Wonder where Jim went to engineering school? They do have a significant military. - Mike KB3EIA - Dunno. Maybe they were missing their recruitment quotas and Jim went there to plus them up. |
wrote: wrote: From: on Wed,Apr 13 2005 4:28 am I simply don't want to read Len's story about ADA again. He's posted it here so many times I can recite it from memory. But he never explains why it has any bearing on amateur radio policy today. I've already explained the "bearing it has" years ago. No, you didn't. Not how *your* experience at ADA (a military radio station) has any bearing, or relevance, to amateur radio policy today. How does a Canadian Military Museum have any bearing or relevance to amateur radio policy today? |
wrote: bb wrote: wrote: What does it matter whether I served in any military or not? Kind of makes it hard to be a Veteran if you didn't serve. But then comes you. A licensee with no antenna. In your case one has to conclude that becoming a Veteran was easier than putting up an antenna. How's the antenna install that your sister did for you on her last visit? Hams and non-hams can serve in the military. Which branch did you serve in? |
From: "K4YZ" on Thurs,Apr 14 2005 2:27 am
wrote: bb wrote: wrote: What does it matter whether I served in any military or not? Kind of makes it hard to be a Veteran if you didn't serve. But then comes you. A licensee with no antenna. In your case one has to conclude that becoming a Veteran was easier than putting up an antenna. Brian P Burke and Leonard H Anderson both epitomize all of the things that give other veterans a black eye. I would not want to be in a social setting where their status as veterans was known and then announce that I was a vet too. That's one "guilty by association" that I will gladly avoid. Tsk, tsk. You had BETTER avoid it! Once you step away from the Legion Hall bar YOU are liable to not make it out of the parking lot! :-) Sweetums, I have an HONORABLE discharges from military service. Kellie ain't got a one! Kellie couldn't make it in or got away with staying out (take a pick, prick). What have YOU got? A medical discharge. You claim, and then try to bluff everyone into believing "it was changed to an 'honorable' discharge." Do WE have "proof" of that? NO! Tsk. I can digitize my 1960 HONORABLE discharge and send it (have to get it out of the bank's safety deposit box). It can be verified at the St. Louis military records archives. It can probably be verified through the VA...but I've had NO need to do that myself. My employers have all checked and verified such was true for me, as has Social Security after my 65th birthday. Not a problem in my case. So...we've got BIG MOUTH Cuss-Everyone-Out Stevie bad-mouthing every one who disagrees with him and his claims of "seven hostile actions" and other bull****. We have to take his "word" that all he say is "true." :-) Like his "reference" to my "employment with NADC." [which never happened since I was never employed by the USN in any capacity] Poor Stevie doesn't like to "associate" with myself or Brian. Tsk, tsk, tsk. Poor baby. He should stay at the Legion Hall bar and keep telling his fantasy stories. Maybe someone WILL believe him (if they've had enough to drink). "Belief" is Stevie's BIG PROBLEM. He can't live with it...makes every- one else "prove" theirs and then keeps bad-mouthing them when they do! Psychotic Psteve. Tsk. Me, I got NO problems associating with REAL military veterans. Done it much...and NOT at some Legion Hall bar. Done it for years. I'm proud of what I did and there are NO blemishes on my military record. I'm sure Brian has a good record, too. "It ain't braggin if ya did it." I did it. Get some mental help, Psychotic Pstevie. You need it. ex-RA16408336, U.S. Army 1952-1960, HONORABLE discharge |
From: "bb" on Wed,Apr 13 2005 6:20 pm
wrote: What does it matter whether I served in any military or not? Kind of makes it hard to be a Veteran if you didn't serve. In his "heart" he served in everything... Here's a hint: The Canadian military forces used Morse Code in WW2. Oh, now I see the connections. Because you saw photos of Ham soldiers in QST, and you're a ham, you "served" by extension. The coat-tail connection. Of course. [he does expert "tailoring" on that coat-tail] Don't forget that Jimmie "served" in every morse combat situation...before and after "pioneering the airwaves" with all the first radiomen...not to mention being a personal assistant to Reggie Fessenden. :-) I could go on about the political and economic effects, but since this is a radio newsgroup I thought I'd stick to electronic and radio subjects. And Canadian war museum topics. ...and ANYTHING else that has emotional appeal to all those MORSEMEN out there. If it has MORSE in it, Jimmie MUST stamp it "approved for r.r.a.p. use." :-) If I did talk about any military service I had, you would be certain to make fun of it. It's just what you do, Len. So typical. You "served" in other ways. And Kelly has "real" military experience. Riiiight...Kellie was "served" at the Captain's table. It's only those who disagree with you about Morse Code testing that get your disrespect, abuse, name calling, and general jack(expletive deleted] behavior. Do you eat with that mouth? ...he eats Morse-o-meal for breakfast... Is there any reason to doubt that Steve, K4YZ, was involved if he says he was? Is there any reason to not apply Steve's rules of facts to Steve's claims? Stevie's "facts" are right out of Twilight Zone. Stevie is the National Enquirer's wanna-be reporter who was rejected by the editorial staff en masse as "being too fanciful for National Enquirer's standards." :-) I see. His mistake somehow justifies *your* behavior? Mistake? He's had ample opportunity to correct that mistake. Instead he piles up the lies. It must be eternal spring...whatever Stevie says, Jimmie approves. [kiss, kiss...] Godwin invoked. You lose. Why not use the person's name and callsign? Kim, W5TIT. Miccolis invoked. You lose. Rest of your double-standards snipped. Jimmie is thinking along Henry Ford lines...viz, the old quote about the Model T Ford: "You can have any color you want...as long as its black." Anyone can say anything positive about morse code in here...in any manner the pro-coder wants...and Jimmie will "judge" them "approved" and even "praise" the "manly manner" the pro-coder boosts the glory of Morse. :-) |
From: "K=D8=88B" on Thurs,Apr 14 2005 7:18 am
"K4YZ" wrote in message oups.com... Didn't Hans put that well into the 70's for the Navy? No, Hans didn't. The last significant use of Morse in the Navy was in the late 50's/early 60's. This usage was by small-boys, DD and smaller, on "fox" broadcasts and "A1" ship/shore circuits. Both uses ended with fleetwide deployment of Jason and Orestes circuits in the early 60's. Morse training for general duty Navy RM's ceased at the same time, and Morse operator became a specialized NEC (MOS to you grunts) held by only a few sailors, mostly in SPECOM branches (intercept operators, etc.). The single operational Morse use which survived was the VLF SSBN transmissions (two transmitters, one Cutler, ME and the other at Jim Creek, WA). That was a simple slow-speed beaconing system which notified boomers to pop up their satcomm antennas for the actual communications. 73, de Hans, K0HB Master Chief Radioman, US Navy Thank you for factual corroboration, Hans. As far as I know now, the VLF stations evolved into ELF but at different locations. According to a USN Fact Sheet those locations are at Clam Lake, WI, in the Chequamegon National Forest (operational since 1985) and Republic, MI (operational since 1989). The Republic station is synchronized in time with Clam Lake, all under operational control of NCTAMS LANT headquarters at Norfolk, VA. Their transmission protocol is "Deep Black" slow-speed data and the Boomers' (and Shark's) electronics rooms (what used to be a tiny "radio room" cubicle in WW2 boats) have "Black" ELF receivers always on-line (as are their automatic decoders) for Alerts. For an illustration of a Boomer electronics room, go to the www.fas.org site and search down through a maze of internal links to USN stuff; take info there as old and not containing all the juicy details but has the appearance of unclassified USN documents. My nephew-in-law was an electrician's mate on a shark, involved with reactor power plants, not radio. All he said about his shark boat's electronics room was "we couldn't hang around in there." :-) There was no such thing as a "nuclear boat/ship" in Canada or any other Navy during WW2. The only encryption used by the USA (and Canada as well as the UK) was the "Sigaba" as shown on the USS Pampanito floating museum and at the NSA on-line Museum. The "Sigaba" system (TTY), upgraded to post-WW2 standards was severely compromised by the capture of the USS Pueblo off the North Korean coast in 1968. The replacement system was compromised by CWO Walker who was convicted of espionage and is serving a federal life term. The present encryption methods are apparently two generations later than the Walker- compromised crypto systems...and quite secure. The original "Sigaba" on-line TTY crypto terminal was first installed in the 1940s and used to relay intercepts of the infamous "14-part" diplomatic message of Japan that was supposed to be the formal start of the Japanese declaration of a state of war. "Sigaba" was later used to coordinate USN fleet movements to enable the success of the Battle of Midway. That TTY encryption was never compromised through intercepts. It was compromised by actual capture of later-generation hardware on the USS Pueblo. The "Sigaba" encryption looked like severely distorted TTY to any standard, non-crypto TTY terminal, totally unreadable. The Far East Command Hq (Pershing Heights, Tokyo, Japan) had their crypto room in the sub-sub- basement of the main Hq building, the former Japanese War Ministry Hq. The post-WW2 improved "Sigaba" (known by various other names) was used by US Army Field Radio units in "Angry-26" huts during the Korean War. A few M-209 Code Coverters (WW2 non-electric devices in small cases of the portable typewriter kind) were used in the field in Korea for small-radio encryption but that ceased by the time of the active phase beginning in Vietnam. By interviews and other correspondence, the U.S. Army maintained morsemanship as a requisite for Field Radio MOSs ("NEC" to swabbies?) up to about 1972. USA had several different communications MOSs then, especially in TTY over various systems and including the first of the military satellite communications links. However, tactical use of morse code in the Army was essentially nil at that time. Encrypted voice in the field was first tried operationally during the Vietnam War over the PRC-25s and PRC-77s through peripheral boxes. Such is now easily selectable by front panel controls on the SINCGARS manpack and vehicular sets (COMSEC is built-in to nearly every radio now, including military HTs). During the First Gulf War, Special Forces had slightly old "threes" having 1200 BPS "chiclet" keyboards and LCD text display working on the military aviation band of 225-400 MHz. The mil av band was also relayed by mil satellites as well as "Joint Stars" relay aircraft. Moderate crypto system built-in on the "threes." There was no movie-style "behind enemy lines" use of morse in the 1990-1991 period...or afterwards. |
From: on Thurs,Apr 14 2005 3:42 am
wrote: From: on Wed,Apr 13 2005 4:28 am [etc., etc., etc...] Granted, you didn't see any "morse code modes" in use at ADA. But to say there was none used at all, anywhere in the US military is a different thing. Tsk, tsk, tsk. Changing the subject. Long-distance point-to-point communications bore the brunt of ALL military branchs' message traffic to an amount of GREATER than a million messages a month. What's interesting is that you have to qualify the statement as "long-distance point-to-point communications" - because Morse Code was then still being used *extensively* by the US Navy, by the maritime radio services, by aircraft and by many other radio services such as press services. "Extensively?!?" HOW DO YOU KNOW? :-) Sweetums, I WAS PART OF IT. :-) Army station ADA, as assigned to Far East Command Headquarters, carried not only Army traffic, but some USN traffic, some USAF traffic, some Press Services, even some Red Cross message traffic. ALL on TTY. Not a bit of morse code. And ADA was just the third largest station in ACAN (Army Commmand and Administrative Network). That "little" station (36 transmitters, all over 1 KW and on 24/7) relayed 220 thousand messages a month (1955). WAR (Washington Army Radio) handled over a million a month then. Sweetums, that "extensively" is just your wishful thinking. Of course there was SOME morse being used by all branches in 1953. But, HOW MUCH? YOU DON'T KNOW! YOU WERE NEVER IN. YOU NEVER DID IT FOR THE MILITARY. Your tunnel vision of "long-distance point-to-point communications" by the US military is about as relevant as the fact that Morse Code wasn't in use on the AM broadcast band in the 1930s. Tsk. A reducto ad absurdum. You must be getting rattled, sweetums. You are too young to have listened to Walter Winchell's "news broadcasts" on radio. He "used morse code" at every opening...apparently for some weird "authenticity" since ol' Walt was getting on towards Alzheimers at the time. And it was on fixed, predetermined frequencies, using equipment most individuals could not afford to buy. Tsk, that's called PROFESSIONAL COMMUNICATIONS, sweetums. When one is IN the Cold War and trying NOT to let it develop into a nuclear confrontation, one uses absolutely the BEST stuff to "get the message through." I'm sure the Canadian military did the same within their budget constraints. You want the U.S. military to act like amateurs? :-) Some of us think that POLICY of the U.S. government is "done by amateurs" but that's a whole other story. So, famous historian of radio, DID THE CANADIANS USE MILITARY RADIO LIKE AMATEURS? And it was *not* the kind of communications that make up the vast majority of amateur radio communications. Don't misdirect, sweetums. YOU started this thread with an emotional message about "morse code in the window" at a CANADIAN MILITARY museum. Try to stay within a few light-years of the subject. At some point, anyway. The US Navy was still using Morse Code long after the beginning of the 1950s. HOW DO YOU KNOW? YOU DIDN'T SERVE. So was the Coast Guard. HOW DO YOU KNOW? YOU DIDN'T SERVE. That SHOULD have some meaning to rational persons insofar as the efficacy of morse code for communications... There you go, Len, assuming your conclusion. What you're saying is that because the Army didn't use it, nobody should use it. For the VAST MAJORITY of message traffic in the U.S. military - ALL BRANCHES - morse code mode was NOT used "extensively." What the heck, Jimmie Noserve, you weren't IN any military, not even in Canada. Why are you all upset? Here's a hint: Ham radio isn't the US Army. When Uncle Sam is willing to buy radios for all hams, then maybe you'll have a point. OH! OH! ERROR! MISTAKE! First of all, your buddie and pal, Stevie he say that "MARS IS amateur radio!" Tsk. MARS' first letter in that acronym means MILITARY. Secondly, check with a REAL MARS civilian volunteer. You will find out that the military GIVES them radio goodies. No need to "buy." Military already bought the stuff and used it. Be NICE to MARS folks, Jimmie, maybe they'll GIVE you an AN/FRC-93 for nothing; it's a Collins KWM2 Commercial transceiver with a military nameplate. too prone to human errors by its operators, All communications modes are prone to operator error. The person typing on a teleprinter can make a mistake, too. HOW DO YOU KNOW? Don't see any TTY in that picture of YOUR ham shack! :-) Nope. You just don't like the mode. Sweetums, I just don't LIKE the TEST for it. :-) Tsk. You get SO confused when someone doesn't "like" EVERYTHING about morse code! by now, EVERY other radio service has either DROPPED the mode (if they used it at all in the past) or NEVER CONSIDERED it when that radio service began. So what, Len? That's like saying that since almost all motor vehicles don't have manual transmissions anymore, no vehicles should have them. gave up having "...give up having..." Tsk. Got so flustered you couldn't finish the sentence? :-) Hello? Have you taken a state driver license exam? Lately? Look again and see how many questions there are on MANUAL TRANSMISSION automobile operation. Sweetums, I was talking about the morse code TEST. You began this whole thread with an emotional thing about "morse code in the window" at a Canadian military museum. I wasn't talking about automotive design. There's a rec newsgroup on that but I don't know it's name. Automotive design doesn't belong in here anyway. The main reason Morse Code was replaced by other modes in other radio services is that it required skilled operators at both ends of the circuit. Skilled operators cost money and have to be taken care of, and the speed and accuracy of communications is limited to their skill level. So the skilled operator was eliminated by technology, to save time and money. Riiiight, Jimmie, but you've de-emphasized "other modes" to try and make your case. You didn't for a lot of reasons. Day-in, day-out morse mode manual comms can probably handle 20 WPM rates. If the morsemen are good. I'm talking SUSTAINED hour-by-hour operation, NOT burst mode stuff which CAN be faster. The OLD teleprinters could chug along CONTINUOUSLY at 60 WPM from the 1930s onward. Paper tape could be prepared ahead of time and used in automatic transmitting distributors, be punched at the receiving end also. By the 1960s the NEWER teleprinters were chugging along at 100 WPM SUSTAINED. No problem. Teleprinter makers did excellent electromechanical designs. Just think, SUSTAINED THROUGHPUT at 100 WPM! 24/7 if there were folks to keep feeding the machines paper, p-tape, and electricity. No bathroom breaks, no need to sleep, no need for food breaks. By the 1970s the electromechanical systems were being replaced by DATA, teleprinting by electronics, first with rates of 300 WPM, then 1200 WPM, then 2400 WPM, and finally at 56000 WPM over voice-grade circuits. [getting close to Shannon's limit on today's modems] What you're saying, then, is that you want to eliminate the skilled operators from ham radio, too. NO, sweetums. What I've ALWAYS SAID is to toss, throw away, eliminate the morse code TEST for amateur radio license. THE TEST. In the United States, "ARS" does NOT stand for "Amateur RadioTELEGRAPHY Service." There is NO requirement for any U.S. amateur licensee to operate on morse code mode. ALL allocated modes are optional to use for any class. Why do you keep insisting that the ONLY SKILL in ham radio is morsemanship? If morsemanship is such a wonderful thing, then it should be optional for any ham to become a good morseman ON HIS OR HER OWN. Since the U.S. government doesn't require exclusive morse use, it shouldn't be ON the TEST. For over half a century (actually, since before WW2) the brunt of messaging in the military has been done by modes OTHER than morse code. Even if true, (it's not) so what? HOW DO YOU KNOW? YOU'VE NEVER SERVED IN THE MILITARY. You're argument says that since most US Navy ships stopped relying on the wind for propulsion long ago, nobody should own a sailboat today, even for "a hobby pursuit, a recreation, something done on free time for enjoyment." Sweetums, this newsgroup is NOT about BOATING. YOU started this thread with an emotional message about "morse code in the window" at a Canadian military museum. Now you want to hoist a sail on your lil sabot? :-) Show me the SSBN that uses "sail" as an alternate means of propulsion...or the USS Kennedy aircraf carrier. :-) Better yet, tell us how the USCG appreciates the use of morse modes on harbor and river VHF communications? :-) Very illogical. Sweetums, you almost take the prize for today's reducto ad absurdum message content! The old Bell Telephone system handled a lot more than 1.5 million "messages" a month back then, too. HOW DO YOU KNOW? WERE YOU A TELEPHONE OPERATOR? What possible connection does that have to the self-trained, self-funded amateur radio operator? WHAT POSSIBLE "CONNECTION" does a NON-VETERAN, NON- CANADIAN have with a Canadian military museum that has "morse code in the window?" :-) It should be obvious to rational people that there is NO need for any morse code testing for a hobby radio activity. There's where you make an illogical jump. You hold up what the US military allegedly did, then say it's somehow connected to what hams should do. There's NO "allegedly" going on, Sweetums. It is recorded history. I was THERE, DOING IT. You were NOT. But you never say what the connection is. Just that "it's obvious to rational people" - which it isn't. I never said morsemen are "rational." :-) What morse code testing for a hobby radio activity has become is a travesty, a gross artificiality kept in there by old-timers who managed to pass such tests and keep insisting that all newcomers MUST do as they did. No, that's simply not true at all. It's just your way of rationalizing your hatred, Len. "Hatred?" Ain't NO "hatred," Jimeee. You must think the ARS stands for Amateur RadioTELEGRAPHY Service. You cannot conceive of the possibility that U.S. amateur radio could ever exist without that beloved code TEST and all the "importance" "skill" "grandeur" and "nobility" of morsemanship. :-) Since amateur radio operators *do* use Morse Code extensively, today, on the air, for a wide variety of activities, it is perfectly obvious to rational people that a basic test of Morse code skill is a reasonable test requirement for a license. That's the whole thing, right there. NO! ERROR! MISTAKE! The FCC has NOT *REQUIRED* morse use over an above any other mode, any class licensee, for years. ALL allocated modes are OPTIONAL for use. Since all those allocated modes are OPTIONAL, then there is NO reason to require a morse code test for a license. Of course, that is a rational reason. Since some morsemen are irrational in their absolute DEMAND to RETAIN morse code testing, you might not approve. :-) You resent knowing that another has done it. I don't resent it at all, Len. I'm just bored by your constant repetition of the same old story and illogical conclusions. Poor baby. Just like your buddie and pal, Psycho Psteve. Anything against your Godlike judgement is an "error" or "mistake" and you DISALLOW all such arguments. :-) And you still haven't explained how what happened at ADA a half-century ago has any relevance to ham radio today. Oh, my, you are still "unconvinced?" ADA, as well as AHA, AGA, and lots of other Army stations used vacuum tube transmitters. Seems to me that station N2EY uses TUBES! Tsk, over half a century later and Jimmie still relies on TUBES! :-) Oh, and the SAME principles of physics applied to RADIO then as well as now, regardless of human-designated radio "service." ADA did its operation on HF. By odd coincidence (or is it?) station N2EY also uses HF! Sunnuvagun! :-) Here's one more analogy to your alleged logic: Now, now, Jimmie, you are getting testy... :-) Inexpensive calculators have been around for a couple of decades now. Almost nobody in business or the professions relies on manual arithmetic anymore - even the smallest businesses, for example, use electronic cash registers to do the calculations. Wowee...such "extensive" analogy building. However, some ERRORS! "Pa" Watson, the one who began IBM, began as a cash register salesman for NCR. All-mechanical cash registers. Those worked real well for SMALL businesses before I was born. The HP-35 and all the rest of the scientific calculators that followed obliterated the demand for "slide rules!" Where such manual calculation was once done, it has been completely replaced by electronic methods. Manual calculation is too slow, too error-prone, and too dependent on human skill. Oh, my, yes! Therefore, we should not require anyone to learn how to do such calculations as addition, subtraction, multiplication or division, let alone square roots or other techniques. That's what you're saying. And it's nonsense. Now, now, Jimmie, you are falling into the reducto ad absurdum "argument" again. :-) Maybe there's some situation where a cash register or calculator was "necessary" for radio communication, but dang if'n I know of one. Try to remember I've been doing radio communications for a long time now...longer than you've been alive (or at least born, that is). Never heard of a radio license exam that REQUIRED demonstrating basic arithmetic skills to get that license. :-) Tsk. Anyone wanting logs or trig functions to better than 5 figures needs to do a Taylor Series or other polynomial equations to get an accurate answer?!? That's DUMB, Jimmie, and you SHOULD know that is a complete waste of time. Let the little scientific calculator do it...good to 12 digits...double-precision computer calculations are good to 14 decimal digits. But, you are trying to make an "analogy" of basic math skills to RADIO LICENSING! Good grief. Not ONE bit of morse code involved in basic math skills! Tsk. You ought to get all ARS licensees to WORK SPARK TRANSMITTERS! VERY BASIC! THE *FIRST* TRANSMITTERS FOR AMATEURS! Tradition and all that...long before you were born, Jimmie. Yes, I know "spark" is not allowed as an emission. So, why are you constantly emitting all that nonsense about the NEED TO KNOW morse code? Why do you force your personal desires on all newcomers? Why can't you live and let live...allow the ARS to ADVANCE beyond the "Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society?" |
bb wrote: K4YZ wrote: wrote: bb wrote: wrote: What does it matter whether I served in any military or not? Kind of makes it hard to be a Veteran if you didn't serve. But then comes you. A licensee with no antenna. In your case one has to conclude that becoming a Veteran was easier than putting up an antenna. Brian P Burke and Leonard H Anderson both epitomize all of the things that give other veterans a black eye. I would not want to be in a social setting where their status as veterans was known and then announce that I was a vet too. That's one "guilty by association" that I will gladly avoid. Steve, K4YZ There is no guilt in military service, unless you lie about it. Like saying that you have "real military experience" when you don't, or saying that you have "seven hostile actions" when you have none. Lennie's use of the sacrifice of life for his own glorification is one of the most "intolerable sins" amongst veterans. Period. Best of Luck. None needed, but thanks. Steve, K4YZ |
wrote: From: "K4YZ" on Thurs,Apr 14 2005 2:27 am wrote: bb wrote: wrote: What does it matter whether I served in any military or not? Kind of makes it hard to be a Veteran if you didn't serve. But then comes you. A licensee with no antenna. In your case one has to conclude that becoming a Veteran was easier than putting up an antenna. Brian P Burke and Leonard H Anderson both epitomize all of the things that give other veterans a black eye. I would not want to be in a social setting where their status as veterans was known and then announce that I was a vet too. That's one "guilty by association" that I will gladly avoid. Tsk, tsk. You had BETTER avoid it! Once you step away from the Legion Hall bar YOU are liable to not make it out of the parking lot! I don't drink, Lennie. Sweetums, I have an HONORABLE discharges from military service. Yes, you do. But it's your self-serving use of the deaths of others for your own glorification that dishonored whatever you DID do good, Lennie. Kellie ain't got a one! Kellie couldn't make it in or got away with staying out (take a pick, prick). You've been asked this before, I am asking again: WHAT LAW DID BRIAN KELLY VIOLATE BY NOT SERVING IN THE ARMED FORCES...?!?! (Caps not for yelling, but to make it easier for the old man to read...he has obviouly had a hard with it!) What have YOU got? A medical discharge. Nope. Same Honorable you've got, Lennie. You claim, and then try to bluff everyone into believing "it was changed to an 'honorable' discharge." Do WE have "proof" of that? NO! It was never "changed" to an Honorable, Lennie. It was Honorable all along. I was discharged. Tsk. I can digitize my 1960 HONORABLE discharge...(SNIP) Sure you can. Two problems, though. One, you've already done the "I am going to send you an e-mail" trick wherein you DIDN'T send what you promised you were going to do. Trust blown. Secondly, as I have said over an over, I don't doubt that you have an "Honorable" discharge. But what I HAVE said over and over it's HOW YOU DISGRACED YOUR SERVICE WITH YOUR SELFISH USE OF OTHER'S SACRIFICES THAT MAKE YOU THE SCUMBAG YOU ARE! Me, I got NO problems associating with REAL military veterans. Done it much...and NOT at some Legion Hall bar. Done it for years. I'm proud of what I did and there are NO blemishes on my military record. I'm sure Brian has a good record, too. "It ain't braggin if ya did it." I did it. You also "did it" when you tried to embellish YOUR "record" with the deaths of Soldiers who died in combat before you were even inducted. Get some mental help, Psychotic Pstevie. You need it. Not even remotely as much as you, old man. ex-RA16408336, U.S. Army 1952-1960, HONORABLE discharge Pathologiocal liar and teller of Tall Tales. User Of Other's Sacrifices. Putz. Steve, K4yz |
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