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K4YZ wrote:
"Now You're Talking" is for folks with no prior background. The idea being to introduce those who DON'T have that prior background. They insisted that everyone had to buy the book, no matter their background. I offered to help maintain their club equipment but they brushed me off because I don't have a ham ticket. I still have a half way decent RF bench, but nothing compared to the $1,000,000 plus benches of test equipment I had at Microdyne. I am sure the offer was appreicated, Mike, it it IS an "Amateur Radio" club. Do you have an aversion to getting licensed? No, but If I had to send CW I would have to use a computer keyboard because my hands are stiff and I have almost no feeling left, other than a constant dull pain. The ability to do delicate work at any reasonable speed is gone. I have severe tinitus and get migraines easily so listening to the heterodynes and static quickly trigger headaches so I can't even think about long hours of listening to HF signals like I did as a kid. Welcome to RRAP, wherein our resident "used-to-be-an-engineer-and-know-everything-better-than-you" representitive, Len "Lennie" Anderson endears himself and makes friends by calling them Nazis, thugs, elitists, etc, then crying foul when "called" on it. Thanks! Trust me on that if you haven't seen others' received flak. Trusting Lennie Anderson on ANYthing is like letting Jack Kevorkian make your health care decisions for you. Do a Google on ", ", (before winter 2001, I believe...) Lennie's "reputation" for honesty, trustworthiness and dependability are less than adequate. Still a professional electron pusher (and long-time electronics hobbyist) but one doesn't do it during regular office hours. You don't do it during OFF hours either, judging by your complete lack of evidence on ANY "hobbyist" project other than listening to the ATIS at LAX on your scanner. Hope you'll get a ticket at one level or another, Mike...there's a lot of fun to be had...If some club was rude to you, don't think it's the whole tamale. I have been around hams and radio clubs since the '60s. Some are the salt of the earth, and others are a pain in the ass just like any other large group of people. One club was strictly for the rich blowhards who did nothing but argue about who spent the most o their radios, had the biggest lightning farm in their back 40 but they never seemed to do anything but argue with each other. A few other small groups were interested in homebrewing a complete station, and had a good grounding in electronics. You could have conversations about equipment, design and operating the equipment and they knew what they were talking about. I helped start the ham radio club at my high school in the late '60s. The school system provided us with a small corner for the radios and a teacher for a couple hours a week so we could be in the school after hours. I got people to donate dead radios and TVs. I repaired them, sold them and raised close to $1000 to buy parts and equipment. As soon as the station was on the air the three licensed hams in the club spent all their time either on the air tying up all the equipment or arguing that it wasn't their fault no one else could use it because they didn't have a license, rather than do like they promised and help others learn the code and get their ticket. Not long after that I was drafted and spent a couple years in the Army. After that I did two way radio repair, broadcast and electronics manufacturing. These days the only mode i would enjoy would be VHF or higher, and I'd probably spend more time building radios than using them. BTW, the board of directors of the local club has a couple retired EEs who look down on everyone else who doesn't have a degree, or hasn't been on the air for teen years or more. I know a number of local hams who dropped out of the club and gave up on ham radio altogether because of club politics. The only thing they seem to do right is have their small hamfest at their club headquarters and not charge people for a ticket to enter to buy or browse. I went to the last one to try to find some old friends and came home with a full truckload of parts and damaged old equipment to repair or use for parts. I ran into a half dozen people I had lost contact with and had a little fun, till my legs gave out. When I lived in Ohio I sold parts and reconditioned equipment at the Dayton and Cincinnati hamfests. I made a lot of friends and had a lot of repeat customers but I find very few hams in Florida who even know which end of a soldering iron to pick up. I had on guy yelling at me at the last hamfest I sold at because I had computer cable and connectors, but they weren't assembled. He was yelling, The day I can't buy what I need already assembled, is the day i sell my station. I politely suggested he sell it right away and do other hams a big favor by getting off the air. 73 Steve, K4YZ -- Former professional electron wrangler. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
cl wrote:
Leave it in, take it out, the riff raff is already invading the bands. Like the clowns that hung out at 14.313 back in the days when hams who could operate there had to pass a 13WPM or higher code test? I'm not a "lover" of code, but I have hold a license which required code. Requirements are fine as long as they are sensible. Back 50 years ago it made sense to require code. Today...? |
"Bert Craig" wrote in message ... "Barry OGrady" wrote in message ... Morse gone by the beginning of last year. Barry Sad that many folks will likely never give themselves the opportunity to bag some of that rare DX that seems to only show up on the bottom of the bands. Just bagged HZ1EX on 7013 kHz. 99.999% CW op and luvin' it. -- Vy 73 de Bert WA2SI FISTS #9384/CC #1736 QRP ARCI #11782 Know what you mean. I just received a card from the 2003 Burkina Faso DXpedition and would not have bagged it without CW. And I'm only a so-so CW op that just uses it for major contests. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Hey, wait a minnit here . . we also had to walk uphill both ways to the FCC offices in raging blizzards. Ya WEENIES . . . grumble . . And that was in the summer! I had to do a code sending test at 5wpm at the old FCC field office in New York City (I've heard the place is now condos). |
From: "Mel A. Nomah" on Mon,Apr 18 2005 4:28 pm
"Michael Coslo" wrote in message ... : : I've looked at some of the older questions. The only thing about them : that is difficult is that they tend to pertain to operating with : equipment and different condition than today. : No, the only thing harder was that those were just samples, and you had to actually understand the underlying material because the question on the examination would be different. Fromyour description of "take the online test until I can pass it, then rush down to the VE session", I expect that you'd be another Len Anderson under those conditions, on the outside looking in. Tsk, tsk, tsk, "Melanoma," I've been INSIDE the world of electronics and radio for the last half century. Slightly MORE than a half century. As a professional, that is. Gave up trying to add an amateur radio license to the old (1956 granted) First 'Phone license collection about four decades ago (give or take). I thought it might be nice to take it up again now in retirement, like for fun, but U.S. amateur radio seems to have evolved into SERIOUS BUSINESS! Everyone all uptight and demanding absolute and instant obediance from all the Dill Instructors swaggering about, trying to whack the hobbyists into SHAPE for the SERVICE!!! :-) I don't see where many are into ham radio for "fun" in here. All are acting like RADDIO KOPS, complete with shiny badges of RANK, etc. :-) Good luck on your chemotherapy... |
"Cmd Buzz Corey" wrote in message ... cl wrote: For some - it may! One argument I've heard, is that those musically inclined pick it up quicker than others, yet I knew some who "were" musically inclined and claimed to have a hell of a time with it. Reason? I don't know. I can't get inside their head. I used to teach Novice classes, and I always assumed that anyone could learn the code if they really wanted to. I found that some people had difficulty telling the difference between a dit from a dah unless it was sent very slowy and the dah made a lot longer than the dit, but when sending a character that contained several dits or dahs or combinations, they simply could not tell one from the other. It wasn't that they lacked the skill to learn the code, I could right out characters in dits and dahs on the board and they could recoginize them, it was an interpertation problem with the brain of telling the sound of a dit from the sound of a dah. People with hearing aids often had a difficult time. You can get special tests and use special accomodations (such as code with longer dahs than normal making for more of a distinction in dits and dahs) if their hearing is truly a problem. My ex had a 70% hearing loss in each ear AND constant ringing in the ears. However, he managed his 5wpm without special accomodations other than using headphones and a very loud volume. Other people might need a different pitch or need the dits and dahs separated by pitch either for their initial learning exercise or even for the test. People with hearing aids will often have problems with many sounds not just code. The training and test material must be set to a pitch that they can hear. The number one reason people have problem with code is unrealistic expectations on how quickly they can learn it. They see the "wunderkinds" who can do it in a few days and think they are failures if they can't duplicate it. In reality the average person needs TWO MONTHS OF DAILY PRACTICE FOR 30 MINUTES PER DAY. Until they have done that, they can't say whether they have a problem learning it or not. And of course they must use good training methods. After that period of time, even if they don't yet have it down, they will be seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. The second biggest reason people have a problem with code is simply not committing to learning it. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... cl wrote: which required code. 5 WPM is not impossible to learn. It only takes a few minutes a day and about 2 weeks at least to get enough to pass a test. Took me 45 minutes a day for over 6 months, plus one failed test to get to 5 wpm. I'm all in favor of Morse code testing, but you guys have to show some understanding that it isn't that easy for a lot of people. I aced the writtens, without a whole lot of study by comparison to a lot of people. I don't go around calling them retards or stupid. - Mike KB3EIA - I agree with you Mike. I hate it when I hear someone say "it only took me a few days" as that raises unrealistic expectations on the part of the students. It becomes very hard to convince them that they will probably need more time than that and to keep them motivated to keep working on it. The average person needs 30 hours of study (1/2 per EVERY day for 60 days) to get there. Some will take longer such as yourself but at least once they have put in the 30 hours, they will be able to tell that they are making progress even if it takes longer for them. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
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"Mike Andrews" wrote in message ... In (rec.radio.amateur.misc), Cmd Buzz Corey wrote: I used to teach Novice classes, and I always assumed that anyone could learn the code if they really wanted to. I found that some people had difficulty telling the difference between a dit from a dah unless it was sent very slowy and the dah made a lot longer than the dit, but when sending a character that contained several dits or dahs or combinations, they simply could not tell one from the other. It wasn't that they lacked the skill to learn the code, I could right out characters in dits and dahs on the board and they could recoginize them, it was an interpertation problem with the brain of telling the sound of a dit from the sound of a dah. People with hearing aids often had a difficult time. You hit that part right on the head. My XYL has a deep notch in her hearing response curve, from about 400 Hz to about 2 KHz, due to playing viola in a symphony orchestra for 15 years, sitting right in front of the brass section[1]. She's having the very devil of a time with Morse, mostly because she has problems distinguishing between dit and dah. She has learned not to trust her ears, and now she's trying to learn to read with them. The deep notch right where most people tune to read CW and where the various tapes, CDs, and tutor programs all put the tone, also makes it very difficult for her. Most of the computer programs let you select a pitch you like. Of course you would have to arrange with the VE team well in advance of the test to have one set up at that pitch for her testing. Or just make sure that you can turn the volume WAY up just like my ex had to (70% hearing loss in each ear and constant ringing of the ears). When she passes Element 1, I have to go learn American Sign Language and pass a proficiency test. Sounds fair to me. [1] I'll bet most people don't think much about hearing damage in people playing in symphony orchestras. It's fairly common. Being an amateur musician, I've read quite a bit about it. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"Mel A. Nomah" wrote in message link.net... "Michael Coslo" wrote in message ... : : I've looked at some of the older questions. The only thing about them : that is difficult is that they tend to pertain to operating with : equipment and different condition than today. : No, the only thing harder was that those were just samples, and you had to actually understand the underlying material because the question on the examination would be different. From your description of "take the online test until I can pass it, then rush down to the VE session", I expect that you'd be another Len Anderson under those conditions, on the outside looking in. M.A.N. -- "I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it." - Voltaire The test pools are large enough that it's much easier to learn the material than memorize all the questions and answers. The Extra class pool is something like 800 questions even though only 50 appear on the test. I'd much rather learn the equation and how to use it than try to memorize say 10 different question/answer combinations for the material covered by that equation. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
come to pass.
Absolutely. But...that will be the END of the ARS (Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society). retired (from regular hours) electronic engineer person Correction - I'm "not" Caveat Lector........ I use small case cl, he uses capitals. See my address within! cl Sorry, Mr. Lowercase. Apologies redered. Correction so noted. |
Michael A. Terrell wrote: cl wrote: The local ham club is looking for people to take classes with "Now Your Talking" rather than try to find people with any electronics background. I offered to help maintain their club equipment but they brushed me off because I don't have a ham ticket. I still have a half way decent RF bench, but nothing compared to the $1,000,000 plus benches of test equipment I had at Microdyne. That's all well and good Mike and no doubt you're a quite competent RF tech, not even a discussion. But I think you're missing some critical points here. Rumors to the contrary ham radio is overwhelmingly a communications hobby, it is NOT an electronics hobby as such. Sure there are any number of high-end electronics gurus who also have ham tickets and exercise their skills on the bands, in the clubs and even in this funny-farm of a USENET group. But they're not the heart & soul of ham radio today for certain and I'm not particularly convinced they ever were. In general the average ham learns as much about electronics as he/she needs to satisfy their enjoyment of the hobby. Which on average ain't much in this day of cheap whizzy plug 'n play equipment. Beast on reality as you might but that's the way it is. In this sense and given the obvious lack of interest in the arcane details of electronics amongst the average members of the average neighborhood ham radio club you should not have known that your offer to participate was a no-counter. They don't "maintain" their radios, they don't need your expertise, they simply ship their broken radios off to the repair shops to get fixed. In short "Now You're Talking" fits their agenda and your's simply does not. In another sense ham radio clubs are private entities conventionally for hams and prospective hams only. As an analogy what you did was show up at a bow-hunters club with a .45-70 powder-burner and expect any interest in an offer to "help". -- Former professional electron wrangler. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida w3rv |
From: Michael A. Terrell on Apr 18, 8:00 pm
wrote: when I had the full copy." I was awarded 26T20 as a civilian acquired skill that was a three year school at Ft. Monmoth. I worked in CATV, CARS, installed a nice PA system for the General's conference room at Ft Rucker, and did a little RADAR before I was sent to Alaska to the AFRTS radio & TV station to work as one of the engineers. I made E4 in 18 months and received a letter of commendation from the commanding general of the three Army bases in Alaska. Great! But Fort Monmouth changed considerably from when I was there in '52 to when you were there 20 years later. :-) A prime example was that there was NO CATV or any TV courses available nor the curricula for same. I'm not even sure where the AFRS (later AFRTS) guys went to get electronics training for their broadcast stations. AFRS was quite separate from regular Army communications. Also, in an odd quirk at the time, ALL rank promotions were frozen while IN any school. Once one got out (no "graduation ceremonies"), they started counting time-in-grade. :-) Just before I got out of the Army the FCC stopped allowing veterans to convert the 26T20 rating to a First phone without taking the test again. I was bored with broadcast anyway so I did commercial sound and industrial electronics. Later I did early personal computer and monitor repair. Sigh. I didn't know the Army had gotten so generous with conversions of skills to civilian licenses. :-) I lucked out on assignments after Signal School, even though it was overseas. Couldn't have asked for a better assignment except maybe in Europe as part of ACAN. We had basic models that were customized to the customer's needs. I also did a lot of preliminary testing of new components, boards, and modules before they were released to production so I had a lot of data books and marked drawings on my bench. ISO 9001, as they set it up did not let the techs keep any notes or write anything on any drawing for future reference. I was no longer allowed to maintain test software I wrote for an automated test fixture and I didn't want a pencil pushing outsider in my way while I was working. I had a 350 MHz four channel scope on my bench, but if a test procedure specified a 20 Mhz scope the idiots insisted that you couldn't use the 20 Mhz filter in a better scope. Even worse, they sent someone new for every audit so we had to go through the same mess each time. One would insist a process was wrong. We would change it to suit him or her. The next one wanted it changed back. Heh heh heh...sounds all too familiar. While we may not have been in the same place, we got T-shirts in the same style! :-) BTW I worked on almost every board or module for a special broadband telemetry receiver we built for the International Space Station. These days I work on old ham receivers and test equipment when I feel well enough to spend a couple hours at the bench. Outstanding that you are still active! My old office cubicle buddy from RCA days (only a month younger than myself) suffers from Parkinson's disease (kept down from deleterious effects, thank God), yet he had enough soup left that he fixed me up with an HP 608 and HP 606 generator when I got married (again). He's on 20 meters every Saturday after fixing up his old tube clunker transceiver. I'm still bopping around with only minor problems, none worth mentioning. But, I come from a family of long livers (oh...about three feet or so, some would say). :-) |
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Bert Craig wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Serious HF dxers aren't serious unless they work both phone and CW, ya have to do both or else yer shooting yerself in the foot. Thanks Brian. I'm havin' gobs of fun and have broken out the K2/100 running approx. 70 Watts. I'm about a third of the way through toward DXCC Whoa, boy you're moving fast, good show! How much sleep are you getting these days? and need an Asian contact for WAC. Condx from here on the east coast to the north Pacific rim have been somewhere between lousy and hideous for weeks. A JA or a UA0 will pop into your sights eventually. I will heed your advice re. using both phone and CW. If the name of your game is building your mixed-mode total, which is usually the Holy Grail, you really don't have any choice. It's simple statistics and the immutable math of the decibles. CW gets you an automatic 10 dB advantage over ssb but if the rarie only runs ssb well then the ten dB obviously don't mean squat, etc. I haven't done any "card counting" for years but I suspect that if I did I'd find that 25-30% of my total are phone contacts. Despite the fact that I'm a terrible weak-signal phone op and spend 95% of my time lurking in the lower 25s. I do hop on 10 using phone while commuting to and from work, but in the shack, well... ;-) Heh. Keeping an eye on 10 from the vehicle is not a bad idea actually. If ten opens up you know the lower bands are probably cooking. To be honest, I suppose I just find the CW itself fun. I'm also a big WW II buff and was quite honored to work W5E over the weekend, who was operating from a Boeing B-17 bomber. The op was using the vintage onboard gear. It's humbling to think of the transmissions that have traveled through that gear. Hap and his Eighth; "Yankee Doodle went to . . BERLIN?!" Yee-haw! Only those who were there will ever really know what it was like. Tnx agn es hpe c u ota. Take care es... Later. Dit-dit. -- Vy 73 de Bert WA2SI FISTS #9384/CC #1736 QRP ARCI #11782 w3rv |
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
... cl wrote: "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... cl wrote: which required code. 5 WPM is not impossible to learn. It only takes a few minutes a day and about 2 weeks at least to get enough to pass a test. Took me 45 minutes a day for over 6 months, plus one failed test to get to 5 wpm. I'm all in favor of Morse code testing, but you guys have to show some understanding that it isn't that easy for a lot of people. I aced the writtens, without a whole lot of study by comparison to a lot of people. I don't go around calling them retards or stupid. - Mike KB3EIA - Ok.... It took "me" 2 weeks, I know others who learned it quickly, but I can't provide a time frame. Yes, code "can" be harder for others to pick up. I don't doubt that for a minute. Point is, you have to put one foot in front of the other and stick with it, to get down the path to learn it. Yup. I must confess that I kind of drew you and some folks into this a bit, because I have some significant hearing defects. Several 60+ db notches,esp at the mid and higher frequencies and two separate tones of tinnitis, a different frequency for each ear. I haven't had a quiet moment for 30 years or more. When conversing with people, I read lips. I understand vey much the situation of the fellow whose wife has notches in her hearing.(conjecture alert) I would also say I suspect that the constant noise in my ears has turned of parts of my brain that process sound. And that is probably why I had such a hard time (conjecture alert off) All I can say for teh folks with hearing problems is that study, practice, and most importantly, relaxation during copying is the key. I can only imagine what it must be like with a significant hearing deficit. I can not and will not put anyone down who has such a problem. As to how they can learn code, there are many ways, but I guess it comes down to whatever works best for that person. Not everyone's condition is the same. I've tested folks with some difficulties, I followed the guidelines as given by the VEC/FCC. There are ways to test folks with such problems, but getting them to be able to learn the code - is the first hurdle. Does 6 months of constant hard effort indicate the desire to "stick with it"? Yes, I'd say it certainly does! You are to be commended for doing such. You're not a "quitter". And from the sounds of things, you didn't "whine" about it either. Many don't want to start, and whine about it without ever putting forth effort. Hell, I know people who bitched about having to look at the "basic" Q/A manual! One remark was "Do I "have" to learn all this?" Another - "Do I "have" to read all these questions?" But yet they want a license. Pure laziness. Licenses should be "earned" not given away. People are least likely to respect something "given" to them. Most of what you say , I agree with. If a person doesn't want to study, they shouldn't have a license The bands are already showing signs of deterioration from people who just don't care. I've heard of some pretty wild times long before things were "dumbed down"! - Mike KB3EIA - Yeah, I know the bands started going to hell before that. Used to be I bragged about Ham to people who wanted their kids to get into radio but didn't want the CB garbage. I said Ham is clean. Today, you couldn't pay me to advertise ham as being clean. It is NOT. That is sad..... It really is. The exams test for proficiency in code, theory, rules and regulations. They're not psychological tests to weed out all the riff raff. IF such tests existed for Ham and all the other fields, maybe we'd have a better world. There are people in every field, be it a hobby or profession - who ruin it or at the very least - make it look bad for the rest. cl |
"Dee Flint" wrote in message
... "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... cl wrote: which required code. 5 WPM is not impossible to learn. It only takes a few minutes a day and about 2 weeks at least to get enough to pass a test. Took me 45 minutes a day for over 6 months, plus one failed test to get to 5 wpm. I'm all in favor of Morse code testing, but you guys have to show some understanding that it isn't that easy for a lot of people. I aced the writtens, without a whole lot of study by comparison to a lot of people. I don't go around calling them retards or stupid. - Mike KB3EIA - I agree with you Mike. I hate it when I hear someone say "it only took me a few days" as that raises unrealistic expectations on the part of the students. It becomes very hard to convince them that they will probably need more time than that and to keep them motivated to keep working on it. The average person needs 30 hours of study (1/2 per EVERY day for 60 days) to get there. Some will take longer such as yourself but at least once they have put in the 30 hours, they will be able to tell that they are making progress even if it takes longer for them. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE NOT EVERYONE - can learn code in a few days or whatever. There are some things I can't learn in a month where others picked it up right away. Different strokes for different folks. Each person has to take whatever time as needed to learn whatever it is they're needing/desiring to learn. Some fields don't allow a lot of time to learn, while others - such as ham - do. There is nothing saying that ANYONE has to learn code overnight or they're a failure. Just because I was fortunate enough to get enough in - in that 2 weeks - to pass the exam, doesn't make me a "CW" king. I use code "rarely". But, I had a chance once to teach some youngsters the code. One picked it up pretty quick, the others - were a bit slower. If anyone wants/needs to learn the code to get a license, they will - in whatever time it takes - IF they start on it and don't give up. The last part is the key...... To get started and stick with it. As to time, when they get all the characters down, then they'll have learned the code. Be it 2 weeks or 2 years. cl |
"cl" wrote in message o.verio.net... "Dee Flint" wrote in message ... "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... cl wrote: which required code. 5 WPM is not impossible to learn. It only takes a few minutes a day and about 2 weeks at least to get enough to pass a test. Took me 45 minutes a day for over 6 months, plus one failed test to get to 5 wpm. I'm all in favor of Morse code testing, but you guys have to show some understanding that it isn't that easy for a lot of people. I aced the writtens, without a whole lot of study by comparison to a lot of people. I don't go around calling them retards or stupid. - Mike KB3EIA - I agree with you Mike. I hate it when I hear someone say "it only took me a few days" as that raises unrealistic expectations on the part of the students. It becomes very hard to convince them that they will probably need more time than that and to keep them motivated to keep working on it. The average person needs 30 hours of study (1/2 per EVERY day for 60 days) to get there. Some will take longer such as yourself but at least once they have put in the 30 hours, they will be able to tell that they are making progress even if it takes longer for them. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE NOT EVERYONE - can learn code in a few days or whatever. There are some things I can't learn in a month where others picked it up right away. Different strokes for different folks. Each person has to take whatever time as needed to learn whatever it is they're needing/desiring to learn. Some fields don't allow a lot of time to learn, while others - such as ham - do. There is nothing saying that ANYONE has to learn code overnight or they're a failure. Just because I was fortunate enough to get enough in - in that 2 weeks - to pass the exam, doesn't make me a "CW" king. I use code "rarely". But, I had a chance once to teach some youngsters the code. One picked it up pretty quick, the others - were a bit slower. If anyone wants/needs to learn the code to get a license, they will - in whatever time it takes - IF they start on it and don't give up. The last part is the key...... To get started and stick with it. As to time, when they get all the characters down, then they'll have learned the code. Be it 2 weeks or 2 years. cl Maybe someone would care to explain to me and to the rest of the world, how Gordon West's mini camps held on a "weekend" - were designed to work to get people ready to pass an exam by the end of the weekend. At least that is the understanding "I" got from reading the ads. I can't recall if some of those weekends were just for NO Code Tech OR if perhaps they also may have been for "code" as well. IF SO, and someone never had code, then how the hell did they do it in 3 days? Two weeks is a reasonable amount of time - as it took me. Three days? I don't know...... Is it possible? Even if it were just for the theory, most I know, can't learn all that in 3 days. You'd have live, eat, sleep, breathe and take the books to the can with you. IF anyone took one of those weekends, speak up. IF maybe "I" misunderstood the ad wordage, someone - anyone - feel free to correct me. cl |
On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 02:41:32 GMT, robert casey wrote:
And that was in the summer! I had to do a code sending test at 5wpm at the old FCC field office in New York City (I've heard the place is now condos). When the rats started to outnumber the people in that building, something had to be done.... A shame - 641 Washington Street was a beautiful example of 1920s Federal office buildings. A family friend who was my inspiration in joining the Federal workforce worked there most of her career as a secretary and then a claims examiner for the pre-OSHA Labor Department - may she rest in peace. I was in the FCC facilities there only six times - twice for amateur exams, three times for commercial exams, and once to the office (which was at the opposite end of the building from the exam rooms) to pick up travel orders to my first duty post in San Francisco. I still can't comprehend those old buildings as upscale condos.... -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane |
On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 06:05:03 GMT, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
The radio station at Ft Greely, Ak was built in 1948 as the first permanent "Armed Forces Radio Network" station. It was the first site built with commercial broadcast equipment instead of modified military gear used at some sites during WW II. The radio transmitter was a gates BC250 In the early '70s AFRTS claimed to be the only all tube network in the world. A former subordinate of mine at the FCC, Don Browne, was an EE and ROTC-trained AFRTS officer in the late 1960s and after his three years on active duty with the Signal Corps went Reserve and came to work for me. He spent several years at the field office and several more at headquarters. His reserve billet was abolished in an AFRTS reorganization (even though he was a MAJ) but when a vacancy on the civilian engineering staff of the AFRTS came up he transferred to that. He retired as the chief of engineering for AFRTS several years ago and still hangs around the broadcast business. AFRTS IS NOT Amateur Radio -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane |
"cl" wrote in message o.verio.net... "cl" wrote in message o.verio.net... "Dee Flint" wrote in message ... "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... cl wrote: which required code. 5 WPM is not impossible to learn. It only takes a few minutes a day and about 2 weeks at least to get enough to pass a test. Took me 45 minutes a day for over 6 months, plus one failed test to get to 5 wpm. I'm all in favor of Morse code testing, but you guys have to show some understanding that it isn't that easy for a lot of people. I aced the writtens, without a whole lot of study by comparison to a lot of people. I don't go around calling them retards or stupid. - Mike KB3EIA - I agree with you Mike. I hate it when I hear someone say "it only took me a few days" as that raises unrealistic expectations on the part of the students. It becomes very hard to convince them that they will probably need more time than that and to keep them motivated to keep working on it. The average person needs 30 hours of study (1/2 per EVERY day for 60 days) to get there. Some will take longer such as yourself but at least once they have put in the 30 hours, they will be able to tell that they are making progress even if it takes longer for them. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE NOT EVERYONE - can learn code in a few days or whatever. There are some things I can't learn in a month where others picked it up right away. Different strokes for different folks. Each person has to take whatever time as needed to learn whatever it is they're needing/desiring to learn. Some fields don't allow a lot of time to learn, while others - such as ham - do. There is nothing saying that ANYONE has to learn code overnight or they're a failure. Just because I was fortunate enough to get enough in - in that 2 weeks - to pass the exam, doesn't make me a "CW" king. I use code "rarely". But, I had a chance once to teach some youngsters the code. One picked it up pretty quick, the others - were a bit slower. If anyone wants/needs to learn the code to get a license, they will - in whatever time it takes - IF they start on it and don't give up. The last part is the key...... To get started and stick with it. As to time, when they get all the characters down, then they'll have learned the code. Be it 2 weeks or 2 years. cl Maybe someone would care to explain to me and to the rest of the world, how Gordon West's mini camps held on a "weekend" - were designed to work to get people ready to pass an exam by the end of the weekend. At least that is the understanding "I" got from reading the ads. I can't recall if some of those weekends were just for NO Code Tech OR if perhaps they also may have been for "code" as well. IF SO, and someone never had code, then how the hell did they do it in 3 days? Two weeks is a reasonable amount of time - as it took me. Three days? I don't know...... Is it possible? Even if it were just for the theory, most I know, can't learn all that in 3 days. You'd have live, eat, sleep, breathe and take the books to the can with you. IF anyone took one of those weekends, speak up. IF maybe "I" misunderstood the ad wordage, someone - anyone - feel free to correct me. cl It was for no code Tech and students were expected to have read the book once through before attending the weekend seminar. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Phil Kane wrote:
A former subordinate of mine at the FCC, Don Browne, was an EE and ROTC-trained AFRTS officer in the late 1960s and after his three years on active duty with the Signal Corps went Reserve and came to work for me. He spent several years at the field office and several more at headquarters. His reserve billet was abolished in an AFRTS reorganization (even though he was a MAJ) but when a vacancy on the civilian engineering staff of the AFRTS came up he transferred to that. He retired as the chief of engineering for AFRTS several years ago and still hangs around the broadcast business. A lot of people got caught in RIFS. I worked with an E5 who was riffed from Captain to E3 a few years before. he decided to stay in the service so he took the reduction. I spent more time in the TV end, but I had to take care of the radio station as well. AFRTS IS NOT Amateur Radio I know its not but those old stations were maintained like a lot of homebrew ham stations. Jury rigged repairs to get back on the air, running a very marginal signal because you weren't allowed to shut the transmitter down till scheduled maintenance, which was once every six months. Repairs done with used parts salvaged from old radios and TVs. You could see the handiwork and creativity used by former staff and I always wondered how many were hams. The station manager at Ft Greely was, but he was a real lid. He truly believed in tuning for minimum smoke rather than learn how a transmitter worked, but he was the only one like that I met in the service. Instead of using the station monitor, he would call his wife to ask how the picture was as he screwed with the transmitter. BTW, I was offered a civil service job while at Ft Rucker and turned it down. I would have finished my active duty there while I filled the slot, then the slot would become a civilian job again. -- Former professional electron wrangler. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
cl wrote: "bb" wrote in message oups.com... cl wrote: A whole bunch snipped. Those who defy wanting to learn the code jump at any chance to perpetuate rumors of code being eliminated. Similarly, those who promote Morse Code will latch on to any idea, no matter how wrong, to claim the Code Exam remains valid. Leave it in, take it out, the riff raff is already invading the bands. My comments with respect to the NPRM were, "What I fear most about changing the Morse Code exam requirements is a lack of enforcement, and what I fear most about maintaining the status quo is a lack of enforcement." You're right, it will take a while, even if they were to decide to write a NPRM to do such. If these people jumped into Alligator infested waters as fast as they do rumors, the population would take a sudden drop. I'm not a "lover" of code, but I have hold a license which required code. Ditto. 5 WPM is not impossible to learn. It only takes a few minutes a day and about 2 weeks at least to get enough to pass a test. 2 weeks is not long, It may be impossible for some. I learned it over a considerably longer period of time with frequent practice. you probably drove longer on a permit before being allowed to drive on your own. Probably studied the book longer too! It takes little effort. I disagree. It took a great effort. For some - it may! One argument I've heard, is that those musically inclined pick it up quicker than others, yet I knew some who "were" musically inclined and claimed to have a hell of a time with it. Reason? I don't know. I can't get inside their head. Steve can. He can even have them incarcerated with a simple phone calls. The biggest problem with most is "laziness". Was that your problem? If you hadn't been so lazy you could have learned the code in under a week? Eh - I had the code down in 2 weeks for the Novice exam. AND I'm now an Extra. Been licensed since the early 80s. Yeah, I probably could have learned it in under a week, if I pushed myself. That wasn't my point. My point is that everyone is different, and the length of time it takes to learn 5WPM varies greatly. The time it takes to learn 20WPM could be lifetimes. Not everyone is even capable of 13WPM. Most anyone will tell you - it isn't good to do such. Besides, at that time, I was chasing rug rats - so study time was premium. I've been told that is absolutely no excuse. Nothing in your personal or professional life can be more important than learning the code. Most recommendations are 15 minutes to a half hour a day. That hardly makes it possible in a week. I used the words " "AT LEAST" 2 WEEKS". Some are faster learners than others, that is a given. BUT my point was, you have to get started to learn ANYTHING. You can't absorb it through osmosis. Back to the timing thing, I hope someone from the military can step in to tell us how much time they were given to get the code down. I think they had to "Cram". They've finally left the group. They were paid to learn the code, and they kept getting paid even if they failed. Of course, insteading of doing intercept comms, they were peeling potatoes. Maybe you never will use it again. Perhaps. I've found little use for it so far. Maybe once I'm an old fart, have loads of time, and wax nostalgic for things that never were, I'll take it up and enjoy it, and demand that all learn it. Probably the same age bracket as me. I do listen to call signs now and then on the scanner to pick out the services they represent - if I don't immediately know who the service is. I do listen some times to code on the H.F. Bands. I don't dislike the code. It was difficult for me to make the few QSO's that I did make as a novice. I'd like to pick it up again someday. There are many things you learn in life and may never use again, unless you plan to play on Jeopardy. Many people learned the skeletal system in health class, microorganisms in Biology class. It doesn't mean they use it now. Probably forgot it as soon as they graduated. But, it was "required". It's not a big deal people. Once you get past the "do I have to" and start doing it, you'll amaze yourself at how fast and easy it can be. Indeed. I never had the "do I have to?" attitude as there was no code-free license when I became a ham. Yet it took me about 9 weeks of daily practice. And you stuck with it!!!!!!!! You didn't quit, and it got you where you wanted to be. OR had to be - for your class of license. 2 weeks, 9 weeks, so what... you did it. A milestone to be proud of. No one can fault you for that effort. My ex-wife certainly can. I DO use code now and then, but not daily like many others do. Everyone has their own thing. Some are into Packet, RTTY, AMTOR, etc, I'm not... To each his own. But we all had to learn "something" about those modes to pass an exam. cl Use it all you want. I'm against the Code Exam as an unnecessary government requirement. Funny thing is, we're all arguing pros and cons and in the end, it won't matter. WE do not have control. So, if we're going to debate the issues we have no control over, may as well keep it clean. Hardly any of us know the other and it isn't worth making enemies over. Certainly not worth name calling.... Whether I'm right or wrong, I do value opposing view points. Everyone has a right to his/her own opinion. It sure will be interesting to see how it all unfolds. I think in the end, we both know the answer to that. Pro or con, it is a matter of time. May be a year, may be 5, but it will come to pass. cl I don't think that's 100% correct. You and me don't write the FCC regulations, but the FCC looked to the ARRL to put forth modern exam requirements. The ARRL movers and shakers wrung their hands and bit "thier" knuckles and said that there was no concensus. So the FCC plowed ahead with modernization, and the ARRL came up with reductions in the Morse requirements lickety split. Amazing, all that. So in the end, if more folks has been exposed to viewpoints other than the ARRL's, there just might have been a concensus. Just my opinions, of course, but by tomorrow I'll probably be labeled a liar, a homosexual, and maybe even a horse thief. |
Dee Flint wrote: Most of the computer programs let you select a pitch you like. Of course you would have to arrange with the VE team well in advance of the test to have one set up at that pitch for her testing. Dee, not everyone has a ham-husband to tell them all of the modifications that the VE may make to an examination |
"cl" wrote in message o.verio.net... I hope someone from the military can step in to tell us how much time they were given to get the code down. I think they had to "Cram". Navy RM "A" School, the basic school which trained Navy Radiomen, was 13-weeks long. Morse practice was 3 hours per day, 4 days per week, but students could come in after-hours for additional practice. Graduation requirement was to be able to copy 5-letter coded groups at 18WPM for 10 minutes, with 3 uncorrected errors allowed. 73, de Hans, K0HB |
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K4YZ wrote: wrote: From: "cl" on Sun,Apr 17 2005 11:33 pm Eh - I had the code down in 2 weeks for the Novice exam. AND I'm now an Extra. Been licensed since the early 80s. Yeah, I probably could have learned it in under a week, if I pushed myself. Most anyone will tell you - it isn't good to do such. Sorry, according to many in here you have to approach it as THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN YOUR LIFE!!! Actually, Lennie, YOU are the only one making that assertion. Nope, in-between homosexual and pedophilia inuendo, you have made such assertions. So that makes lie #25. |
Phil Kane wrote: AFRTS IS NOT Amateur Radio -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Hi! Awesome! Can I borrow that sometime? |
K=D8HB wrote: "cl" wrote in message o.verio.net... I hope someone from the military can step in to tell us how much time they were given to get the code down. I think they had to "Cram". Navy RM "A" School, the basic school which trained Navy Radiomen, was 13-weeks long. Morse practice was 3 hours per day, 4 days per week, but students could come in after-hours for additional practice. Graduation requirement was to be able to copy 5-letter coded groups at 18WPM for 10 minutes, with 3 uncorrected errors allowed. And they had a choice of Morse Code or Farnsworth Code, and could vary the pitch. Hi! What was the wash-out rate? What happened to the wash-outs? |
cl wrote: Pure laziness. Licenses should be "earned" not given away. People are least likely to respect something "given" to them. The bands are already showing signs of deterioration from people who just don't care. cl So how is Bruce? |
Mike Coslo wrote: I've heard of some pretty wild times long before things were "dumbed down"! - Mike KB3EIA - Mike, I've been meaning to ask. Are you still sore at me for not giving your grief about the balloon project? I've been stressing over Steve's label of "antagonist" for not giving you grief for some time now. I'm such a terrible person. Hi! |
"bb" wrote in message oups.com... What was the wash-out rate? I don't have any statistics, but it was fairly small, probably on the order of 8-10%. Most washouts were for academic reasons. Very few failed because of the code. What happened to the wash-outs? They were transferred to the fleet, where most of them were immediately snapped up by the Chief Radioman as undesignated strikers. Since we were chronically short of operators, any training at all was an asset, and a "second chance" is a great motivator. Usually these turned out to be above average sailors. 73, de Hans, K0HB Master Chief Radioman, US Navy |
cl wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... cl wrote: "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... cl wrote: which required code. 5 WPM is not impossible to learn. It only takes a few minutes a day and about 2 weeks at least to get enough to pass a test. Took me 45 minutes a day for over 6 months, plus one failed test to get to 5 wpm. I'm all in favor of Morse code testing, but you guys have to show some understanding that it isn't that easy for a lot of people. I aced the writtens, without a whole lot of study by comparison to a lot of people. I don't go around calling them retards or stupid. - Mike KB3EIA - Ok.... It took "me" 2 weeks, I know others who learned it quickly, but I can't provide a time frame. Yes, code "can" be harder for others to pick up. I don't doubt that for a minute. Point is, you have to put one foot in front of the other and stick with it, to get down the path to learn it. Yup. I must confess that I kind of drew you and some folks into this a bit, because I have some significant hearing defects. Several 60+ db notches,esp at the mid and higher frequencies and two separate tones of tinnitis, a different frequency for each ear. I haven't had a quiet moment for 30 years or more. When conversing with people, I read lips. I understand vey much the situation of the fellow whose wife has notches in her hearing.(conjecture alert) I would also say I suspect that the constant noise in my ears has turned of parts of my brain that process sound. And that is probably why I had such a hard time (conjecture alert off) All I can say for teh folks with hearing problems is that study, practice, and most importantly, relaxation during copying is the key. I can only imagine what it must be like with a significant hearing deficit. I can not and will not put anyone down who has such a problem. It really isn't so bad. In fact, it is sometimes hilarious, when I badly misinterpret what someone says. My family usually tells people of my "predicament" before I meet them, when they have the chance, so they don't think I'm whacked when I give them some off the wall response! 8^) Though there are some sleepless nights when the ears are really roaring.... So I just wear a headset to Op, and turn the sound up...... As to how they can learn code, there are many ways, but I guess it comes down to whatever works best for that person. Not everyone's condition is the same. I've tested folks with some difficulties, I followed the guidelines as given by the VEC/FCC. There are ways to test folks with such problems, but getting them to be able to learn the code - is the first hurdle. Does 6 months of constant hard effort indicate the desire to "stick with it"? Yes, I'd say it certainly does! You are to be commended for doing such. You're not a "quitter". And from the sounds of things, you didn't "whine" about it either. Whining doesn't help anything. And I am proud of having learned Morse code. Yes, that part was more difficult for me than some others. Big deal - I'm not going to demand that everything be changed to suit me. I fully support Morse code testing. Many don't want to start, and whine about it without ever putting forth effort. Hell, I know people who bitched about having to look at the "basic" Q/A manual! One remark was "Do I "have" to learn all this?" Another - "Do I "have" to read all these questions?" But yet they want a license. Pure laziness. Licenses should be "earned" not given away. People are least likely to respect something "given" to them. Most of what you say , I agree with. If a person doesn't want to study, they shouldn't have a license The bands are already showing signs of deterioration from people who just don't care. I've heard of some pretty wild times long before things were "dumbed down"! - Mike KB3EIA - Yeah, I know the bands started going to hell before that. Used to be I bragged about Ham to people who wanted their kids to get into radio but didn't want the CB garbage. I said Ham is clean. Today, you couldn't pay me to advertise ham as being clean. It is NOT. That is sad..... It really is. The exams test for proficiency in code, theory, rules and regulations. They're not psychological tests to weed out all the riff raff. IF such tests existed for Ham and all the other fields, maybe we'd have a better world. There are people in every field, be it a hobby or profession - who ruin it or at the very least - make it look bad for the rest. I don't know if you do PSK31 or not. But if you want to QSO with gentlemen and gentlewomen, it is the place to go. I've yet to hear a curse or even complaining gossip on that mode. The worst I ever heard was one ham (deservedly) upbraiding another for a horribly overdriven and powerful signal that was wreaking havoc with the rest of the segment. But even that was tame by comparison with the rest of the bands. 20 is great for DX, and 80 is the place to go to ragchew. And on psk31, I have no hearing problems at all, haha! - Mike KB3EIA - |
bb wrote:
Dee Flint wrote: Most of the computer programs let you select a pitch you like. Of course you would have to arrange with the VE team well in advance of the test to have one set up at that pitch for her testing. Dee, not everyone has a ham-husband to tell them all of the modifications that the VE may make to an examination Brian, Dee is a VE..... - Mike KB3EIA - Hey, are you going to Dayton this year? I have a batch of what promises to be an awesome Red Ale which should be ready to drink about that time...... |
bb wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote: I've heard of some pretty wild times long before things were "dumbed down"! - Mike KB3EIA - Mike, I've been meaning to ask. Are you still sore at me for not giving your grief about the balloon project? HEH! Now you confused me Brian. But seriously, that you *didn't* give me grief was duly noted! I've been stressing over Steve's label of "antagonist" for not giving you grief for some time now. I'm such a terrible person. Hi! Ohh, you know how newsgroups are..... - Mike KB3EIA - |
Dee Flint wrote:
"Mel A. Nomah" wrote in message link.net... "Michael Coslo" wrote in message ... : : I've looked at some of the older questions. The only thing about them : that is difficult is that they tend to pertain to operating with : equipment and different condition than today. : No, the only thing harder was that those were just samples, and you had to actually understand the underlying material because the question on the examination would be different. From your description of "take the online test until I can pass it, then rush down to the VE session", I expect that you'd be another Len Anderson under those conditions, on the outside looking in. M.A.N. -- "I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it." - Voltaire The test pools are large enough that it's much easier to learn the material than memorize all the questions and answers. The Extra class pool is something like 800 questions even though only 50 appear on the test. I'd much rather learn the equation and how to use it than try to memorize say 10 different question/answer combinations for the material covered by that equation. Exactly. And as for my testing preparation method, it is effective. THe questions I got correct, I had no need to go any further with. But the ones I got wrong were corrected by a trip to the books, or internet research. By the time I took the real test, I knew the material very well indeed. - Mike KB3EIA - |
Dee Flint wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... cl wrote: which required code. 5 WPM is not impossible to learn. It only takes a few minutes a day and about 2 weeks at least to get enough to pass a test. Took me 45 minutes a day for over 6 months, plus one failed test to get to 5 wpm. I'm all in favor of Morse code testing, but you guys have to show some understanding that it isn't that easy for a lot of people. I aced the writtens, without a whole lot of study by comparison to a lot of people. I don't go around calling them retards or stupid. - Mike KB3EIA - I agree with you Mike. I hate it when I hear someone say "it only took me a few days" as that raises unrealistic expectations on the part of the students. It becomes very hard to convince them that they will probably need more time than that and to keep them motivated to keep working on it. The average person needs 30 hours of study (1/2 per EVERY day for 60 days) to get there. Some will take longer such as yourself but at least once they have put in the 30 hours, they will be able to tell that they are making progress even if it takes longer for them. Correct, Dee. Bless those who find it easy, but that isn't what I needed to hear when I was learning. But I'm glad I did it, and it was indeed worth it. I feel sorry for those that have decided to wait for Morse to go away. they still wait...... - Mike KB3EIA - |
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
wrote: That's all well and good Mike and no doubt you're a quite competent RF tech, not even a discussion. But I think you're missing some critical points here. Rumors to the contrary ham radio is overwhelmingly a communications hobby, it is NOT an electronics hobby as such. Sure there are any number of high-end electronics gurus who also have ham tickets and exercise their skills on the bands, in the clubs and even in this funny-farm of a USENET group. But they're not the heart & soul of ham radio today for certain and I'm not particularly convinced they ever were. Most of the hams I knew as a kid were home brewers. They were not designers but they could build a piece of equipment form a magazine article or the handbook. I lived about an hour from Mendelson's in dayton Ohio, and I ran into a lot of hams there, digging through the unmarked bins of parts to build their latest project or repair one of their projects. In general the average ham learns as much about electronics as he/she needs to satisfy their enjoyment of the hobby. Which on average ain't much in this day of cheap whizzy plug 'n play equipment. Beast on reality as you might but that's the way it is. The whole idea of a rig that isn't intended to be serviced is what kills my interest in the hobby. Too many custom parts made of "Unobtaium" and refusing to release schematics and manuals really don't inspire any confidence in imported whiz bang rigs. Not that I prefer tube only rigs, but they were built to do their job for years. I like the modern equipment, but hollow state equipment is simply cool. Now that I have my main station set up, I'm going to start putting together some old tube rigs. Oh yeah! Maybe the rest of the ham's life if he took decent care of his equipment. A lot of newer rigs end up as parts units because some cheap component is NLA. Do you think many of these all plastic LCD display radios will still work when they are 20 years old? I was told that a couple retired EEs in the local club did all their repairs and I didn't know enough to be of any help. Then they told me to "stuff" my offer of free electronic components to help them with repairs. Mike, if I may be blunt, that is a pretty ****ty club. Pardon my French! In this sense and given the obvious lack of interest in the arcane details of electronics amongst the average members of the average neighborhood ham radio club you should not have known that your offer to participate was a no-counter. They don't "maintain" their radios, they don't need your expertise, they simply ship their broken radios off to the repair shops to get fixed. In short "Now You're Talking" fits their agenda and your's simply does not. In another sense ham radio clubs are private entities conventionally for hams and prospective hams only. As an analogy what you did was show up at a bow-hunters club with a .45-70 powder-burner and expect any interest in an offer to "help". w3rv Sorry, but that analogy just doesn't work. Several members told me they wanted to do minor repairs on their equipment but they didn't have access to the tools or equipment anymore. I offered them free use of my shop and to give them most of the components from my old repair business if I had what they needed and was laughed at. AS I said, a poor excuse for a club..... As far as weapons, I have used a bow but I prefer an M-72. ;-) A lot of hams in Ohio were glad that I was willing to help out including an old ham in his late 70s that brought me a home brew receiver that a SK friend of his had built 20 years before. He had lost the hand drawn schematics and had a tear rolling down his cheek as he asked if there was any way I could possibly help him. He told me that he had been to every two way shop and ham equipment dealer to try to find someone to work on it and that one of them told him I was the only one in the county crazy enough to even attempt a repair. I tore it down and found a couple burnt resistors and shorted caps. I did a little math, dug around and found the parts. He was crying when the receiver came to life and kept thanking me. I charged him $10 and he hurried home to get back on the air. Helping someone like that is better than spending hours on the air to me. Different strokes? Different strokes indeed. The ARS has room for many different types. It sounds as if we would get along just fine. I'll bet you felt just darn good when you got to help that fellow. Sounds to me as if you *have* found your place in the hobby. Seems like a good one to me. - Mike KB3EIA - |
"Dee Flint" wrote in message ... "cl" wrote in message o.verio.net... "cl" wrote in message o.verio.net... "Dee Flint" wrote in message ... "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... cl wrote: which required code. 5 WPM is not impossible to learn. It only takes a few minutes a day and about 2 weeks at least to get enough to pass a test. Took me 45 minutes a day for over 6 months, plus one failed test to get to 5 wpm. I'm all in favor of Morse code testing, but you guys have to show some understanding that it isn't that easy for a lot of people. I aced the writtens, without a whole lot of study by comparison to a lot of people. I don't go around calling them retards or stupid. - Mike KB3EIA - I agree with you Mike. I hate it when I hear someone say "it only took me a few days" as that raises unrealistic expectations on the part of the students. It becomes very hard to convince them that they will probably need more time than that and to keep them motivated to keep working on it. The average person needs 30 hours of study (1/2 per EVERY day for 60 days) to get there. Some will take longer such as yourself but at least once they have put in the 30 hours, they will be able to tell that they are making progress even if it takes longer for them. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE NOT EVERYONE - can learn code in a few days or whatever. There are some things I can't learn in a month where others picked it up right away. Different strokes for different folks. Each person has to take whatever time as needed to learn whatever it is they're needing/desiring to learn. Some fields don't allow a lot of time to learn, while others - such as ham - do. There is nothing saying that ANYONE has to learn code overnight or they're a failure. Just because I was fortunate enough to get enough in - in that 2 weeks - to pass the exam, doesn't make me a "CW" king. I use code "rarely". But, I had a chance once to teach some youngsters the code. One picked it up pretty quick, the others - were a bit slower. If anyone wants/needs to learn the code to get a license, they will - in whatever time it takes - IF they start on it and don't give up. The last part is the key...... To get started and stick with it. As to time, when they get all the characters down, then they'll have learned the code. Be it 2 weeks or 2 years. cl Maybe someone would care to explain to me and to the rest of the world, how Gordon West's mini camps held on a "weekend" - were designed to work to get people ready to pass an exam by the end of the weekend. At least that is the understanding "I" got from reading the ads. I can't recall if some of those weekends were just for NO Code Tech OR if perhaps they also may have been for "code" as well. IF SO, and someone never had code, then how the hell did they do it in 3 days? Two weeks is a reasonable amount of time - as it took me. Three days? I don't know...... Is it possible? Even if it were just for the theory, most I know, can't learn all that in 3 days. You'd have live, eat, sleep, breathe and take the books to the can with you. IF anyone took one of those weekends, speak up. IF maybe "I" misunderstood the ad wordage, someone - anyone - feel free to correct me. cl It was for no code Tech and students were expected to have read the book once through before attending the weekend seminar. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE ONCE??????? Many can't do it in 3............ I didn't see that disclaimer as I'll call it - listed in the ad. cl |
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