RadioBanter - Putting ARRL back "mainstream" with hometown hams

RadioBanter (https://www.radiobanter.com/)

- Policy (https://www.radiobanter.com/policy/)

- - Putting ARRL back "mainstream" with hometown hams (https://www.radiobanter.com/policy/70262-putting-arrl-back-%22mainstream%22-hometown-hams.html)

"KØHB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Dee Flint" wrote

In any activity it would be normal for the "beginners" group to be the
largest segment. There are always a
lot of people who start activities but then drop out
for a wide variety of reasons.

Astute observation. It would be nice to find a way reduce that "first
termer" attrition by promoting an atmosphere which reinforces the reasons
they took the time and trouble to come aboard. To steal an idea from
marketing, "It's usually a lot easier and cheaper to keep an old customer
than to identify and recruit a new one."

73, de Hans, K0HB

There will always be some we won't be able to keep no matter how hard we
try. There will always be some who were just trying it out to see if they
would like it but then found that they preferred other activities more. And
that's ok. At least they have broadened there knowledge of the world a bit
even if they don't stay with it.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"KØHB" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

Overall I like the ideas. So who is going to take on the job of
spearheading this.

As many of us as possible!

But it might not be as big a battle as you'd guess. I posted this same
idea on QRZ.COM this morning and within the hour received a phone call
from W5JBP. We spent a full half-hour exploring the PBI.

73, de Hans, K0HB

Didn't say it would be a battle. However, even multititudes participate in
trying to get this implement, you still need a leader to keep the herd
going.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Dee Flint wrote:

"KØHB" wrote in message
ink.net...

wrote in message
egroups.com...

KØHB wrote:

The growth in numbers of Amateurs over the past decade
has been overwhelmingly via the Technician license.

.... since about 1987 or so, most new hams
have started out as Technicians.

Jim, we can nit-pick the semantics if you really think that's productive,
but the two statements above both seem to convey the same notion, which
we might more clearly state "Most new hams since 1991 have entered via
the Technician class which is now the largest single license class in the
US, comprising almost half (47.7%) of the population of licensees in this
country, nearly equal to the combined total population of the three
higher classes.".

73, de Hans, K0HB

In any activity it would be normal for the "beginners" group to be the
largest segment. There are always a lot of people who start activities
but then drop out for a wide variety of reasons.

Every person that drops out is one small failure on our part.

I disagree. Everyone who has been convinced to give it a try is a success
on our part. Not everyone who tries it will find it to be interesting to
them in the long run. However, they have enriched their lives and broadened
their horizons by even an introductory participation.

We need to cultivate these new folk into the ARS. They are a resource that
is being largely ignored by the "better Hams".

- Mike KB3EIA -

We do need to spend more time in working with people to determine if they
have a long term interest and help them develop that. Just because some
drop out doesn't mean that the ARS has failed. It is perfectly legitimate
for a person to start an activity and once they have learned something about
it to make the judgement that their interets do no lie in that particular
hobby. That's not an ARS failure.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Cmd Buzz Corey" wrote in message
...
Bill Sohl wrote:

From the different organizations I've been involved with, I think the
larger beginner "drop-out" is just a truth of human nature. I've seen it
in scouting, college, classic car clubs, etc. Exactly why newcomers move
on to other pursuits is one of life's mysteries in most cases.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

With many people as soon as the new wears off and their initial curiosity
is satisfied, they move on to something new. Call it a short attention
span I guess.

I disagree and do not believe that it is a short attention span. Life is
rich with possible activities and interests. To sort among them and
determine what you like for the long haul is often best done by sampling the
activity. This means starting and then "dropping out" of some things.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Cmd Buzz Corey" wrote in message
...
bb wrote:

You're a bit early. The Novice was the entry level license at that
time. Technician was the consolation prize for passing the General
exam, but failing the 13wpm exam.

Which still granted one the Novice privilege. Someone earlier posted that
when the Novice upgraded he lost Novice priviledges. Not so.

Actually there was a time decades ago that it was so. There was a time that
people had to hold a separate Novice license and a separate Technician
license to participate in the privileges of both license levels. It was
before my (ham) time but I've read about it in some book or another on the
history of ham radio.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

KØHB wrote:
wrote

I'll stick with my proposal vs. Hans' proposal.

Is there a copy of your proposal that I can point my browser at? I'd be
interested in your view.

He kind of gave it, Hans. Hire a marketing firm.

My concern is that Marketing firms tend to work to the lowest common
denominater. Not what we need.

Marketing is what gave us Ketchup that you can't get out of a bottle
(Thicker!.... Richer!) and milkshakes that you have to eat with
jackhammer....

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Dee Flint" wrote

There will always be some we won't be able to keep no
matter how hard we try.

I can't argue with that. (And by extension, the less hard we try, the less
we'll be able to keep.)

But my PBI has little (if anything) to do with "keeping" them in the hobby.

It has to do with ARRL membership growing more representative of the whole
population of amateurs. (See the "Subject" line)

73, de Hans, K0HB

"KØHB" wrote in message
ink.net...
The growth in numbers of Amateurs over the past decade has been
overwhelmingly
via the Technician license. This segment of the Amateur population does
not seem
highly attracted to ARRL membership, nor affiliate with the "national
association" nature of ARRL.

That's because most new hams can recognize a garden
variety classic New England "mutual admiration society"
of wannabe blue-bloods who's only reason for existence
is to maintain their monuments to the past which nobody
cares about anymore and to keep a magazine going
which is composed of 80% advertising.

Face it boys. the ARRL blew it BIG TIME when they had
the chance to eliminate the dammed Code for HF way
back in the early 1980's with the "Plain Language" rewrite
of the amateur rules. Today most of the ham fossils who
opposed this are either in their graves or waiting to expire
and we're stuck with an obsolete hobby as a result.

Thanks boys! (posthumously)

"Robert L. Giggles (Mrs.)" wrote in message
groups.com...

"KØHB" wrote in message
ink.net...
The growth in numbers of Amateurs over the past decade has been
overwhelmingly
via the Technician license. This segment of the Amateur population does
not seem
highly attracted to ARRL membership, nor affiliate with the "national
association" nature of ARRL.

That's because most new hams can recognize a garden
variety classic New England "mutual admiration society"
of wannabe blue-bloods who's only reason for existence
is to maintain their monuments to the past which nobody
cares about anymore and to keep a magazine going
which is composed of 80% advertising.

The ARRL has fought and continues to fight to protect our spectrum, hardly
the action of a "mutual admiration society". They might be able to do a
better job if some of you non-members would get off YOUR high horses, join
the group, and start working towards what you would like to see them doing.
So long as you stay on the outside, they have no reason to represent you or
your views.

You obviously have not investigated their various classes for all levels of
interest in areas of ham radio activity such as the many emergency courses,
etc. It is all too apparent that you speak from preconceived notions and
haven't bothered to get involved. You simply sit there on the outside and
whine and complain.

You want it to be different? Get in there and do the work to change it.
Oh, that's too hard you say. Then you are just a parasite waiting for some
one else to do the work so you can benefit without having contributed.

Face it boys. the ARRL blew it BIG TIME when they had
the chance to eliminate the dammed Code for HF way
back in the early 1980's with the "Plain Language" rewrite
of the amateur rules. Today most of the ham fossils who
opposed this are either in their graves or waiting to expire
and we're stuck with an obsolete hobby as a result.

Do a better job of reading up on history. The ARRL had NO chance of
eliminating the code in the 1980s as the US was signatory to an
international treaty that mandated code for HF privileges.

Thanks boys! (posthumously)

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"bb" wrote

The ARRL may not be just about HF
radio using Morse Code, but the Technicians think it is.

I think that's probably a reasonably accurate statement.

And it is what my PBI is intended to address --- putting ARRL back into
"mainstreet amateur radio" where the Technicians live, and connecting with them
in the activities that are relevant to them.

73, de Hans, K0HB

K=D8HB wrote:
"bb" wrote

The ARRL may not be just about HF
radio using Morse Code, but the Technicians think it is.

I think that's probably a reasonably accurate statement.

But why should they?

Almost every aspect of ARRL policy and practice is focused on
getting MORE people into Amateur Radio and USING those people in their
programs, ie ARES.

There's not one sentence, nay one letter in any ARRL policy or
program that "disses" anyone because of their level of licensure.

And it is what my PBI is intended to address --- putting ARRL back
into
"mainstreet amateur radio" where the Technicians live, and connecting
with them
in the activities that are relevant to them.

ARES isn't? Special Services Clubs?

They've accomodated NCT's at almost every turn...Even most of the
League's long time awards have been adapated or modified in some form
to accomodate them.

I just don't see it. I didn't see it when I was a Novice. Nor
when I was a Tech, General, Advanced or Extra.

The ARRL is a NATIONAL organization. I think they do the best
that they can to help promote Amateur Radio, and if they were to do
anything more for the grass roots level, it would be with getting more
air-time/print in national media.

Several years ago we all got into a turn over how it seems like
there are certain mindsets drawn to Amateur Radio...EMS-types,
experimenters, "gadget freaks" and competitors.

Instead of trying to "recruit" persons from other (most likely
disinterested) demographics, why not just capitalize on the ones that
seem to have a large drawing? EMS, Aviation, "orienteering" and
outdoors types, engineering, etc.

Steve, K4YZ

"K4YZ" wrote in message
oups.com...

Almost every aspect of ARRL policy and practice is focused on
getting MORE people into Amateur Radio....

My PBI isn't concerned with "getting more people into Amateur Radio".

Instead of trying to "recruit" persons from other (most likely
disinterested) demographics, why not just capitalize on the
ones that seem to have a large drawing?

My PBI has nothing to do with recruiting persons into Amateur Radio.

It deals with a program aimed at putting ARRL back on mainstreet where is was
when over 50% of "1 year Novices" were card carrying ARRL members.

de Hans, K0HB

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"Robert L. Giggles (Mrs.)" wrote in message
groups.com...

"KØHB" wrote in message
ink.net...
The growth in numbers of Amateurs over the past decade has been
overwhelmingly
via the Technician license. This segment of the Amateur population does
not seem
highly attracted to ARRL membership, nor affiliate with the "national
association" nature of ARRL.

That's because most new hams can recognize a garden
variety classic New England "mutual admiration society"
of wannabe blue-bloods who's only reason for existence
is to maintain their monuments to the past which nobody
cares about anymore and to keep a magazine going
which is composed of 80% advertising.

The ARRL has fought and continues to fight to protect our spectrum, hardly
the action of a "mutual admiration society". They might be able to do a
better job if some of you non-members would get off YOUR high horses, join
the group, and start working towards what you would like to see them
doing. So long as you stay on the outside, they have no reason to
represent you or your views.

You obviously have not investigated their various classes for all levels
of interest in areas of ham radio activity such as the many emergency
courses, etc. It is all too apparent that you speak from preconceived
notions and haven't bothered to get involved. You simply sit there on the
outside and whine and complain.

You want it to be different? Get in there and do the work to change it.
Oh, that's too hard you say. Then you are just a parasite waiting for
some one else to do the work so you can benefit without having
contributed.

Face it boys. the ARRL blew it BIG TIME when they had
the chance to eliminate the dammed Code for HF way
back in the early 1980's with the "Plain Language" rewrite
of the amateur rules. Today most of the ham fossils who
opposed this are either in their graves or waiting to expire
and we're stuck with an obsolete hobby as a result.

Do a better job of reading up on history. The ARRL had NO chance of
eliminating the code in the 1980s as the US was signatory to an
international treaty that mandated code for HF privileges.

And, for what it is worth the code test will be gone for General
sometime down the road. It isn't a matter of if, it is simply
when at this point. ARRL's proposal recommends ending code
and ONLY retaining a code test for Extra.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

wrote

Does definitely NOT work for those olde-tyme
morsemen locked into the standards and
practices of seven decades ago...they're
still scratching their balding heads wondering
why the rest of the radio world gave up on "CW."

Armenian judges gave it a 9.8 on the Olympic Troll-O-Meter,
but they were over-ruled by the umpires in instant replay, who
award it a 2.1.

The Armenian judges lodged a formal protest!

It was sufficiently trollish, of course, but way too obvious.
It was poorly written, poorly executed, and was so incredibly
lame as to lack the true drawing power of a really masterful
troll. Maybe as high as a 2.3 for the sheer stupidity of the
premise, but a 9.8? Never! The Armenian judges tear their
hair out, throw their balalaikas down in dismay, and perform
the traditional Armenian Dismay Chant! They demand a recount!

Regards,

Hans, K0HB
Lord High Keeper of the Troll-O-Meter

0 2 4 6 8 10
\
\
\
\
\
\
TROLL-O-METER

Where is the PBI at now, Hans?

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Michael Coslo" wrote

Where is the PBI at now, Hans?

It's here and at QRZ.COM forum for open-comment.

It's in the hands of W5JBP and the Dakota Division elected leadership for
feedback.

73, de Hans, K0HB

From: "Dee Flint" on Wed,May 4 2005 8:00 pm

"Robert L. Giggles (Mrs.)" wrote in
message
sgroups.com...

"K=D8=88B" wrote in message
ink.net...
The growth in numbers of Amateurs over the past decade has been
overwhelmingly
via the Technician license. This segment of the Amateur population
does not seem
highly attracted to ARRL membership, nor affiliate with the
"national
association" nature of ARRL.

That's because most new hams can recognize a garden
variety classic New England "mutual admiration society"
of wannabe blue-bloods who's only reason for existence
is to maintain their monuments to the past which nobody
cares about anymore and to keep a magazine going
which is composed of 80% advertising.

The ARRL has fought and continues to fight to protect our spectrum,
hardly
the action of a "mutual admiration society".

Tsk, tsk, tsk..."protecting [your] spectrum"...

The 40 meter issue then sounds like the "24 years war"
in "fighting to protect" since it went UNresolved from
1979 to 2003...

Look at 60 meters...ARRL "fought" to get FIVE
CHANNELS?

Dee, you did NOT address the main point: ARRL is NOT
"representative" of the MAJORITY of licensed U.S.
radio amateurs...by anyone's count, including the
demographics published by the ARRL itself.

They might be able to do a
better job if some of you non-members would get off YOUR high horses,
join
the group, and start working towards what you would like to see them
doing.

Oh, my, the LECTURE on How To Behave again. Tsk.

So long as you stay on the outside, they have no reason to represent
you or your views.

As long as the ARRL does LITTLE to attract Technician
class licensees, it will REMAIN the "mutual admiration
society" seen by SO many others.

You obviously have not investigated their various classes for all
levels of
interest in areas of ham radio activity such as the many emergency
courses,
etc.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. YOU "obviously" have not investigated
what the ARRL is NOT doing for the largest group of
licensed U.S. radio amateurs. Why else would there be
such enmity by so many?

Marie, are you saying that eating cake is BETTER for
all than bread? [don't lose your head about that]

It is all too apparent that you speak from preconceived notions and
haven't bothered to get involved.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. My "preconceived notions" are the
result of about 55 years of observation, talking to
many other radio amateurs, seeing/hearing what others
have to say, etc., etc.

There's NOTHING "preconceived" about the MASS opinion
that EXISTS.

You simply sit there on the outside and whine and complain.

Shut them out if it disturbs your royalness. Can't
have you Elitists getting all hot and huffy about
the masses out there.

You want it to be different? Get in there and do the work to change
it.
Oh, that's too hard you say.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Now you are getting a mite hostile.

ARRL is IN CONTROL of what the ARRL DOES...and, by
all the possible objective observation, the BoD acts
like they are the Elite who Know What Is Good For All
...because that is what the BoD likes.

Then you are just a parasite waiting for some
one else to do the work so you can benefit without having contributed.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Now you ARE getting hostile!

Ooops, I forgot...the Elite KNOW What Is Good For
Everyone! All should OBEY the Elite...

How does the Elitist position of the ARRL "encourage"
anyone to enter amateur radio? Learn morse code?!?

Dee...I was WORKING IN HF 52 years ago and NEVER had
to know any morse code then, nor in all the years
that followed in my engineering career. In EVERY
other radio service in the USA, government included,
morse code is GOING or was NEVER CONSIDERED for ANY
communications. The ARRL still champions morse code
as the "requirement" for "working below 30 MHz" as
a radio amateur.

Hello? Can you NOT recognize how OUTMODED the notion
of "requiring" morse code testing as a "qualification"
is?

If you can't, then you have NO business of being so
Elitist and Knowing What Is Good For All.

Face it boys. the ARRL blew it BIG TIME when they had
the chance to eliminate the dammed Code for HF way
back in the early 1980's with the "Plain Language" rewrite
of the amateur rules. Today most of the ham fossils who
opposed this are either in their graves or waiting to expire
and we're stuck with an obsolete hobby as a result.

Do a better job of reading up on history.

Dee, YOU "read up on history" and be sure to include
all the recent documents from WRC-03. :-)

The ARRL had NO chance of
eliminating the code in the 1980s as the US was signatory to an
international treaty that mandated code for HF privileges.

That is SUCH crude nonsense that I almost want to use
Hans' method of dealing with it...i.e., "hurling it aside
with great force!"

Hello, Dee, are you with the sentient beings again?
Did you think the revision of S25 (almost entire) was
"done by the ARRL" at Geneva in 2003?!?

Dee, the ARRL got aced out in 2003 because of pressure
mainly from their "buddies" at the IARU and the largely-
extra-class-movers-and-shakers at No Code International.
The ARRL OPPOSED almost ALL the revisions that made S25
MORE modern for the international community of radio
amateurs. The revisions were done by VOTE...of the
INTERNATIONAL radio community.

Back two decades, the ARRL was OPPOSED to CHANGE. They
did LITTLE if anything to effect change. WARCs didn't
bring it up because the ARRL was "fighting" to preserve
the status quo...to stop change anathema to the elders
at the Newington admiration society.

The International Amateur Radio Union finally got tired
of that stick-in-the-mud, stick-it-up-somewhere attitude
of the ARRL and began their OWN lobbying for changes in
S25 about the year 2000. ARRL could have joined with the
IARU to be a part of PROGRESSIVE LEADERSHIP. It did not.
The ARRL continued its opposition for at least three
years into this new millennium. They still can't take
a positive position, remain in the ineffective We Know
What Is Best For All vacillating state.

The ARRL could have taken a position of MODERN LEADER-
SHIP a decade ago. They could have pressured the
administrations to change S25 THEN. They didn't do that.
They haven't done that since. They've only promoted
themselves, their products, and their olde-tyme members.
The olde-tymers are pleased. THEY "know what is good
for all" yet they don't. They don't understand that
such Elitist tunnel-vision viewpoints do NOT attract
newcomers, nor does it do any good for all but the
olde-tymer minority.

From: "K=D8=88B" on Thurs,May 5 2005 9:44 am

wrote

Armenian judges gave it a 9.8 on the Olympic Troll-O-Meter,
but they were over-ruled by the umpires in instant replay, who
award it a 2.1.

The Armenian judges lodged a formal protest!

I HURL YOUR "UMPIRES" ASIDE WITH GREAT FORCE...

premise, but a 9.8? Never! The Armenian judges tear their
hair out, throw their balalaikas down in dismay, and perform
the traditional Armenian Dismay Chant! They demand a recount!

CAN YOUR "UMPIRES" COUNT PAST SEVEN?

Or do they need permission to stay up late?

I didn't know you knew ANY Armenians. Lots and lots
of them living here in bordering Glendale, CA. Don't
know of any that have "balalaikas." Do you have a
"balalaika" or are you just pulling your strings?

Get a rag and wipe up all that condescension
collecting on your pipes...makes you look all
drippy...

Lord High Keeper of the Sanity Clauses

wrote

I HURL YOUR "UMPIRES" ASIDE WITH GREAT FORCE...

Yawn

KØHB wrote:

wrote

I HURL YOUR "UMPIRES" ASIDE WITH GREAT FORCE...

Yawn

No doubt your yawn will be hurled aside with great force! Maybe even
dismissed with great prejudice! 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote in

Yawn

No doubt your yawn will be hurled aside with great force!

There's plenty more where that one came from! BSEG

73, de Hans, K0HB
--
"Hark! I Have Hurled My Words To The Far Corners Of
The Earth! What King Of Old Could Do Thus?"
--AC6V

KØHB wrote:

"Mike Coslo" wrote in

Yawn

No doubt your yawn will be hurled aside with great force!

There's plenty more where that one came from! BSEG

73, de Hans, K0HB
--
"Hark! I Have Hurled My Words To The Far Corners Of
The Earth! What King Of Old Could Do Thus?"
--AC6V

Kewl!

Let me know what I can do to help tho'.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Hi All,

Seeing as how there's finally something worthwhile to chime in on here
(a refreshing break before getting back to the mindless flame wars
that have characterized this NG for the last year or two), I'll
de-lurk and contribute my $0.02 on this subject, in the hope that it
might turn out to be worth at least $0.02.

In the comments that follow, I've quoted comments from several other
posters as well as from Hans' original post, so as to get all my
comments into one place rather than having them fragmented in several
replies throughout the thread. As a result, this post is rather on the
lengthy side, but...well, like i said, hopefully it's at least worth
the $0.02. Here goes:

On Tue, 03 May 2005 14:21:48 GMT, "KØHB" got
us started with his now well-known (to regulars anyway) PBI:

The growth in numbers of Amateurs over the past decade has been overwhelmingly
via the Technician license. This segment of the Amateur population does not seem
highly attracted to ARRL membership, nor affiliative with the "national
association" nature of ARRL.

Interestingly, however, these new Amateurs are "local joiners". They attach some
importance to public service communications events such as disaster drills,
SkyWarn, flood relief, marathons, parade communications, and similar functions
of a local nature. Interestingly, even though their on-the-air participation is
limited, they represent a significant portion of the crew at Field Day, hamfest
staffs, and similar "local" events. They are also well represented on the
rosters of many local clubs.

I think it's worth noting here, the old adage about birds of a feather
flocking together. It's been my experience that people join the local
ham radio clubs for a variety of reasons, just as they get involved
with amateur radio to begin with for a wide variety of reasons. When
you bottom-line it, though, a local club remains a sure-fire way for a
newcomer to meet others who share at least some of their interests in
amateur radio. For many it's a way of introducing themselves to the
other hams in their area, sort of like, "I've got my license and I'm
here now, so when you hear me on the local repeaters you don't have to
worry that I might be a bootlegger."

When they get to the local clubs and hook up with other newcomers (and
the observation that the vast majority of newcomers to the ARS enter
via the Technician route is dead on...that's why it's called the
"entry-level license class"), they find the other Techs basically
doing the only things they're permitted to do, absent any meaningful
HF privileges unless they pass a code test - they're doing Skywarn;
tactical comms for parades, bike races, marathons; Field Day, etc.

Another old adage: When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Thus, it's no
surprise that many new Techs join in these activities. This is the
same route I myself took when I entered into the ARS back in '99 and
I'm still active in these pursuits now, except it's in a leadership
role rather than as one who is learning the ropes, so to speak.

Following is a PBI (Partially Baked Idea) to favorably position ARRL (and
Amateur Radio in general) with these newcomers to our hobby.

I propose that the ARRL BoD consider an initiative to attract these newcomers to
an interest in ARRL by establishment of a new "Department of Community Support".

The mission of this department of ARRL would be to organize, train, support, and
nurture a system of tactical communications teams on the LOCAL level. I use the
term "tactical" as opposed to "emergency" intentionally to broaden the scope of
the mission to include a wide variety of community-level communications needs.

Mike Coslo contributed on this that many of the people he can count on
for such activites are Techs, and added:

"That is a good idea. Tactical communications would serve as a good training ground."

For what it's worth, I concur. In fact, I think tactical
communications is a skill that is too often ignored as many public
service and emergency communications groups opt for developing
proficiency in formal traffic handling - which is a valuable skill in
the right circumstances, but unless a group is located somewhere that
circumstances warrant the frequent use of formal traffic handling
(like being somewhere that often gets smacked by earthquakes,
tornadoes, hurricanes, and other major disasters that result in
relatively long relief efforts and a lot of health & Welfare
traffic)...well, many groups will only rarely need formal traffic
handling skills. Tactical communications skills, on the other hand,
are something I think any such group is going to always need,
especially if they are doing parades, races, etc.

Incidentally, I personally use the term "public service
communications" to distinguish this type of work from the more
commonly thought of "emergency" communications that is used during and
in the aftermath of some sort of disaster.

At any rate, to continue...

This "department" would be outside the current Field Organization, and given
VISIBLE and COMMITTED volunteer leadership at Director or Vice President rank.

Did I hear someone muttering "Isn't that what ARES is all about?" or "Our
current field organization already provides for this." Good points -- ARRL
already has some of the pieces in place, and it looks good on paper.
Unfortunately these "pieces" tend to be scattered around the ARRL organization
and are not linked into a cohesive program. Support and leadership
responsibility, from Newington all the way down to the local level, is often a
collateral duty and the attention level is spotty and often diluted by competing
responsibilities and personal interests. Leadership attention at the SM level
is widely variable, and SM's have a diminished mindshare of the general
membership by the unfortunate H.Q. decision to remove "Section News" from the
national journal of our Association.

On this passage, Steve, K4YZ, commented as follows:

First of all, there's already flexibility written into the ARES
program to allow for it's implementation based upon local needs or
concerns. The needs of emergency planners in Plymouth, MN or
Winchester, TN are going to be different than those of New York City or
Miami, FL.

As I see it, Steve, the problem with this is that in many (most?)
areas, the local ARES group wears two hats, serving also as the local
RACES group, and because FEMA guidelines for RACES call for its
implementation at the County level, there's often a lack of ARES/RACES
groups having established relationships with local governments (city,
town, village, etc.). That is something that, as a result, often falls
to the local clubs - but ARRL sees it as an ARES function and local
clubs looking for support for their efforts in this area end up
getting referred to the local ARES leadership...which is often
hesitant to help because they see the clubs' efforts as undermining
their own.

Steve continued:

I don't see how a nationally directed program could possibly do
anything more than appear to be micromanaging.

Again, admitting that their is a niche for local groups to be involved
at a local level and offering some support to them independent of the
ARES (or ARES/RACES) mechanism would not be micromanaging. Often there
are entirely different missions involved, and even when the missions
overlap, again it does not hurt ARES all that much for the local clubs
to have a relationship with a city government's disaster preparedness
officials in a county where the ARES group has a relationship with the
county's disaster prearedness office.

In other words, this would eliminate the "turf war" mentality that
often crops up when the local clubs, or other groups independent of
ARES, start to actually succeed at what they're doing.

Steve went on...

Secondly, the ARRL Special Services Club's program already offers
assistance for helping to manage some aspects of club activities,
offers of sponsorship, etc.

What they (the ARRL) COULD do, without creating a whole new
"branch" and field directorship with it, would be to start spending
some more money to get more recruiting materials, including TV/Radio
"commercials" into the field. They could "regionalize" the materials
with pictures of local clubs, landmarks, etc in them to help "identify"
them to the target audience.

To this I say, "Bingo!"

As one of two co-coordinators of the public service communications
team sponsored by a local SSC, I know from personal experience that
one of our biggest challenges is just letting people know we are here.
This is exactly the kind of support I had in mind above.

OK, back to Hans' original PBI:

Without dwelling overlong on the
shortcomings of the current situation, I think we can all agree on four points:

I'd settle for seeing everyone agree on ONE point. Four is really
asking a lot. But... grin

1) A focused national program with Director (or higher) level leadership would
have more impact than the current fragmented attention to "local" Amateur Radio.

I'd say that depends on whether the program deals directly with
amateurs operating at the local level (in which case I tend to agree),
or attempts to use the existing field organization to accomplish its
goals (in which case I have serious doubts, mainly because I'm
convinced that in many areas the existing field organization is so
completely out of touch with "local" amateur radio as to render any
meaningful progress in a project of this nature highly unlikely).

2) Such a program, if successful, would give Amateur Radio valuable credibility
in the regulatory and legislative arenas, and with national organizations like
Homeland Security, FEMA, and the Red Cross.

I'm not so sure about this. As far as FEMA is concerned, and FEMA is
part of the DHS, they're primarily looking at RACES, and their
guidelines call for implmentation at the county level. To me, "local"
means this city, this town, this village. In some areas, county-level
might work. In my own area, I'm quite sure it would not. As for the
Red Cross, in my area the two Red Cross chapters are served agencies
of two different county ARES groups. As for the group I co-coordinate,
we have a relationship with a city that is served by the Red Cross
chapter that is based in a county whose ARES/RACES group has them as a
served agency, but it is not the same county our city is in!

3) Such a program, if successful, would serve to elevate the perceived value of
Amateur Radio with local civil authorities, perhaps softening the effects of
issues like tower ordinances, etc.

I'm in complete agreement.

4) Such a program, strongly identified with the League, would provide a
membership "attractor" to those classes of Amateurs that are now only locally
"affiliative". Gaining some traction into this huge reservoir of
potential members would be a godsend to the health and growth of ARRL.

Again, I'm in complete agreement.

What would need to be done to implement such a plan. Here are some "off the top
of my head" thoughts.

-- Define the mission and organizational structure.

You've already defined the mission quite well. The organizational
structure definitely needs to be defined.

-- Many of the people (SEC/EC's, etc) are already in place. The organization
structure would need to include a short chain-of-command headed by a focused
leader at Newington.

If you're going through the SEC/EC's, you're going through ARES. In my
opinion, this is not going to work in many areas, including my own.
This needs to be totally separated from the existing field
organization, in my opinion.

-- Move Field Day and SET into this organization as "their" events.

This is throwing the new dog a bone...however, I think the local
amateur radio clubs that sponsor public service communications groups
are probably already active in Field Day and already consider FD to be
one of "their" events - I know we do. Much less so with SET, which is
the "other" annual ARRL-sponsored EmComm event, and (in this area at
least) gets far less attention than Field Day.

My feeling is that Field Day and SET are fine the way they are, and
let both the ARES groups and the new local public service
communications groups participate.

-- Devise a recognition vehicle to give visibility to noteworthy work by
individuals and teams in this Department. This visibility (QST?) should extend
outside the organization to the "general population" of hams as a recruiting
tool.

You've already noted the boneheaded mistake the league made in
removing the section news from QST - undoing that mistake would be a
good start.

The user here who goes by Billy Beeper has commented:

The ARRL has made an effort to get web pages up for each division and
section. That is the method they use of distributing regional and
local information.

It's easy to forget that not everyone has Internet access. As far as
the section news on the net is concerned, I'm subscribed to the
section news summary and am supposed to receive it monthly via e-mail,
but have received nothing since December. If they are going to call
QST "The Official Journal Of The ARRL" then the section news should be
in each month's issue, period. That's the only way of insuring that it
reaches each and every member. ARRL membership is about ham radio, not
about the Internet. When they have a magazine that is sent to each
and every member on a monthly basis, relying on the Internet to
distribute regional and local information is just plain bull****, IMO.

-- Establish a new periodical (like NCJ for contesters and QEX for
experimenters) to help build a "sense of community" among the participants.

I can see another magazine like QST, full of advertising, with a
little note at the bottom of a page somewhere inviting you to visit
the ARRL website if you want anything really useful. In which case,
thanks, but I'm going to pass. There's also the problem of how to get
the word out about this new periodical to its target audience. Since
the audience you want to reach isn't ARRL members, talking about it in
QST isn't going to cut it, because your target audience isn't
receiving QST and isn't reading it.

-- Educate local civil authorities about this organization, their capabilities,
and how to best interface with them to take advantage of their capabilities.

Definitely. This is exactly the kind of support that is lacking now,
in terms of what the local clubs are able to do in this regard.

In order to build some critical mass and gain traction, the outreach effort to
build these teams should not initially stress ARRL membership for "grassroots"
level players, but rather depend on a strong ARRL identity to build esprit de
corps and lead to an attitude of support and affiliation with the parent
organization. Perhaps appointment to team leadership positions would be
conditioned on ARRL membership.

Well, first of all, I think you produce a more effective team if you
base appointment to leadership positions on ability rather than on
what cards one does or doesn't have stuffed into one's wallet.

Beyond that, though, if you start to tie in ARRL membership, at that
point, with many Techs you crash head-on into the other issue that a
couple of guys here have already raised, namely, the perception held
by many people about the ARRL and the Morse code issue. Based on what
many people have said to me in eye-to-eye discussions, this issue is
one of the major reasons why a lot of people choose not to join ARRL.

Len Anderson commented with respect to the ARRL position on code
testing over the years as follows:

The ARRL could have taken a position of MODERN LEADER-
SHIP a decade ago.

Actually, the ARRL could have taken a position of modern leadership
THREE decades ago when the mid-1970's Communicator Class proposal was
out there. Instead, the League chose to register strong opposition to
the idea of any no-code license class, delaying the introduction of a
codeless license class for another twenty years - something that many
have never forgotten, myself included.

In fact, personally, I never will forget it.

Oh, yes, I've gotten over it - I'm now an ARRL member, I'm a duly
appointed (by the SM) PIO in this section, and have a leadership role
in an ARRL SSC here - but a lot of guys my age would have been
involved in amateur radio twenty years earlier, and many retain that
*perception* of the League today despite the current ARRL proposal for
retaining the code test only for the Extra class license. Whether the
perception is accurate or not, it is the *perception* in the minds of
Tech licensees that matters, especially NCTs.

If someone sees ARRL as acting in opposition to their best interests,
they're probably not going to join ARRL...and this is how many hams
have felt about ARRL for years.

In this respect, Len and Billy are quite correct - the ARRL has shot
itself in the foot more than once on this issue, at least with respect
to the hams who would otherwise have benefitted from reduced emphasis
on code proficiency in the testing procedures.

How they go about fixing that now, I don't know. For one thing, they
should push hard for and hope for the FCC to get off its collective
duff and allow Techs some meaningful HF privileges without a code
test. Then, they need to take advantage of the opportunity this will
present by providing some support for the newcomers once they start to
exercise their new privileges. Sponsoring a new contest aimed at the
new operators might help. Incorporating a new award perhaps - or maybe
bring back RCC and...what was it called, the Friendship Award (where
you tried to get a contact with callsigns ending in all the letters
from A to Z)? But they've got to do something to offset the perception
many people have of the League having crapped on no-coders for thirty
years if they want to ever see those hams joining ARRL in any
significant numbers.

Obviously a lot of this proposal needs a great deal of "fleshing out" and
refinement, but I present it in the spirit of a "topic for discussion". I'm
sure that the minds gathered here will not be bashful about improving my PBI.

Hans, anything would be better than the endless flame wars in here,
but you've actually come up with something constructive that just
might be a good start toward doing something positive for the ARRL and
for the ARS. Here's hoping it works out!

73 de John, KC2HMZ

John Kasupski wrote:

I think it's worth noting here, the old adage about birds of a
feather
flocking together. It's been my experience that people join the local
ham radio clubs for a variety of reasons, just as they get involved
with amateur radio to begin with for a wide variety of reasons. When
you bottom-line it, though, a local club remains a sure-fire way for
a
newcomer to meet others who share at least some of their interests in
amateur radio. For many it's a way of introducing themselves to the
other hams in their area, sort of like, "I've got my license and I'm
here now, so when you hear me on the local repeaters you don't have
to
worry that I might be a bootlegger."

Exactly...And that's where a "national" organization can
help...Recruiting materials, media bites, testing/training materials.

It should be up to the "locals" to deceide where the focus of the
organization is going.

When they get to the local clubs and hook up with other newcomers
(and
the observation that the vast majority of newcomers to the ARS enter
via the Technician route is dead on...that's why it's called the
"entry-level license class"), they find the other Techs basically
doing the only things they're permitted to do, absent any meaningful
HF privileges unless they pass a code test - they're doing Skywarn;
tactical comms for parades, bike races, marathons; Field Day, etc.

"...absent any meaningful HF privileges..."

Sounds like a set-up for the "If you don't have HF you're not a
Ham" argument, John. Not only are well over 90% of all Amateur
allocations above 50Mhz, so are most ACTIVITIES above 50MHz.

I went on up to Extra thinking all the activities were on HF only
to find I keep pulling back to 50Mhz and up for a lot of my hamming
activities.

I think the "failure" comes only from thinking that there's
"nothing to do" above 50Mhz. That's just wrong.

Another old adage: When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Thus, it's no
surprise that many new Techs join in these activities. This is the
same route I myself took when I entered into the ARS back in '99 and
I'm still active in these pursuits now, except it's in a leadership
role rather than as one who is learning the ropes, so to speak.

And it's in fellowship that we learn more effectively. My only
"problem" with clubs is that they often try to be too many things to
too many people with too few resources.

"That is a good idea. Tactical communications would serve as a good
training ground."

For what it's worth, I concur. In fact, I think tactical
communications is a skill that is too often ignored as many public
service and emergency communications groups opt for developing
proficiency in formal traffic handling - which is a valuable skill in
the right circumstances, but unless a group is located somewhere that
circumstances warrant the frequent use of formal traffic handling
(like being somewhere that often gets smacked by earthquakes,
tornadoes, hurricanes, and other major disasters that result in
relatively long relief efforts and a lot of health & Welfare
traffic)...well, many groups will only rarely need formal traffic
handling skills. Tactical communications skills, on the other hand,
are something I think any such group is going to always need,
especially if they are doing parades, races, etc.

I agree on the use of those skills, John...and those are some
roots we shouldn't get too far away from.

We've done exactly that here in Tennessee CAP, and now we are
"re-energizing" those basic communicator skills along with the techie
web-rat things. We're creating a "Communications College" to start
from Ground Zero and re-establish basic communicator skills.

On this passage, Steve, K4YZ, commented as follows:

First of all, there's already flexibility written into the ARES
program to allow for it's implementation based upon local needs or
concerns. The needs of emergency planners in Plymouth, MN or
Winchester, TN are going to be different than those of New York City
or
Miami, FL.

As I see it, Steve, the problem with this is that in many (most?)
areas, the local ARES group wears two hats, serving also as the local
RACES group, and because FEMA guidelines for RACES call for its
implementation at the County level, there's often a lack of
ARES/RACES
groups having established relationships with local governments (city,
town, village, etc.). That is something that, as a result, often
falls
to the local clubs - but ARRL sees it as an ARES function and local
clubs looking for support for their efforts in this area end up
getting referred to the local ARES leadership...which is often
hesitant to help because they see the clubs' efforts as undermining
their own.

My experiences here in TN are that all those hats are being worn
by ARES now. certainly not in all areas, but RACES as a seperate entity
is dwindling. Since the Feds have actually pulled the rug out from
under a lot of the RACES regulations the lines have blurred and one hat
seems to fit better!

Steve continued:

I don't see how a nationally directed program could possibly do
anything more than appear to be micromanaging.

Again, admitting that their is a niche for local groups to be
involved
at a local level and offering some support to them independent of the
ARES (or ARES/RACES) mechanism would not be micromanaging. Often
there
are entirely different missions involved, and even when the missions
overlap, again it does not hurt ARES all that much for the local
clubs
to have a relationship with a city government's disaster preparedness
officials in a county where the ARES group has a relationship with
the
county's disaster prearedness office.

In other words, this would eliminate the "turf war" mentality that
often crops up when the local clubs, or other groups independent of
ARES, start to actually succeed at what they're doing.

I think a lot of this is being answered by having the EC's or
DEC's oversee the ARES groups and coordinate the ARES representation
with the various EOC's.

The folks in the EOC's aren't concerned with where the operators
come from or what club sponsors them...Just as long as that cah do what
they say they can do.

BTW...Part of Tennessee's Homeland Security implementation was to
issue a funded mandate that all hospitals within the state have
operating Amateur Radio facilites. We have a short tower with the
V/UHF antennas installed already.

Steve went on...

Secondly, the ARRL Special Services Club's program already offers
assistance for helping to manage some aspects of club activities,
offers of sponsorship, etc.

What they (the ARRL) COULD do, without creating a whole new
"branch" and field directorship with it, would be to start spending
some more money to get more recruiting materials, including TV/Radio
"commercials" into the field. They could "regionalize" the
materials
with pictures of local clubs, landmarks, etc in them to help
"identify"
them to the target audience.

To this I say, "Bingo!"

Thanks.

73

Steve, K4YZ

From: "bb" on Thurs,May 5 2005 6:51 pm

wrote:
From: "bb" on Wed,May 4 2005 4:13 pm

wrote:
From: "K0HB" on Tues,May 3 2005 5:59 pm

etc

It's awful. Those olde-tymers just CAN'T understand
why all the newcomers DON'T worship the olde-tymers'
ideals of long ago.

Hell, I'm OLDER than most of them and I STARTED on
HF...but NOT doing a bit of "CW." :-)

And so they still search for the answer.

So far, all I see is RATIONALIZATION for the
alleged efficacy of morse code. LOTS and LOTS
of old-style BS that went invalid around 1950
or so.

For the BRAINWASHED, their "search" is ONLY
through the olde-tymer's Rah-Rah on how "CW
gets through when nothing else will..." :-)
They can't think any different...the conditioned
thinking (fancy word for brainwashing) is too
strongly embedded.

The answer will only be
meaningful if they work hard for it (uphill both ways).

Oh, it's MUCH more than that! Example -

"Work HARD [at ham radio] to show DEDICATION and
COMMITMENT to the 'amateur community!'" :-)

That's a typical conditioned thinker output,
imagining they are part of some "service" to
the nation, a "corps" a la some military force.

It's all ARTIFICIALITY, this group-think. Amateur
radio is a HOBBY, a recreational pursuit involving
radio, done for personal pleasure. Brainwashing
(by guess who) has conditioned the mental activity
of many that it is much more than a "mere" hobby.

So...the conditioned thinkers allow themselves to
be led into an imaginary state of "importance"
and "service" to justify their having fun with
their radio sets. They perceive themselves as
"better" than other humans/citizens and are
therefore "superior." [some NEED that self-applied
tag of "superior"]

Sufficient
time must pass for them to forget what you or I have said, and for
them
to arrive at the answer independantly.

Not for those morsemen who won't give in until the
morse key is pried out of their cold, dead fingers.

Some just cannot go along with reality.

To borrow from Edison: 100% perspiration, 0% inspiration.

Well, not quite that exaggerated on values... :-)

But darn close! :-)

Does definitely NOT work for those olde-tyme
morsemen locked into the standards and
practices of seven decades ago...they're
still scratching their balding heads wondering
why the rest of the radio world gave up on "CW."

Maybe one day, once they forget that you told them why already,
they'll
arrive at that answer independantly, too.

I'm basically an optimist that a few will see and
understand. Unfortunately, too many are stuck in
their own ego-boo (self boasting) of "excellence"
at morsemanship that they cannot possibly see
the rest of the world.

The rest of the radio world HAS given up on morse
code. None of them in that great big outer world
"needed to learn CW" in order to show them it was
too slow, too error prone to be worth applying to
REAL communications. Once, long ago, when there
was NOTHING ELSE in radio, morse code was good.
None of the morse proponents were ever alive in
those long-ago days so they can't speak of personal
activity of such morsemanship.

Amateur morsemen just cannot be convinced of any
of that. Most live in the fantasy that this new
millenium is still using the standards and practices
of the 20s and 30s..."keeping the 'tradition'" and
all that while they refuse to learn what today is
all about.

Several things are operative with these morsemen:
The strongest of them ARE skilled at morsemanship
and they have a NEED to be recognized for that...
much more than just being satisfied by themselves.
They MUST have many giving them honor and respect
for their accomplishments. They will prioritize
their skill as "above" any newcomer and thus will
demand adherence to what they had to meet long ago;
forget trying to change regulations with them.
Some are just so brainwashed that it may be beyond
medical science to get them to see reality.

Mix all of those together (in various parts) and
there's the "we're better than you 'no-coders'"
nyah-nyahs because they fancy themselves as "REAL"
hams. Homeboy stuff, "turf" staked out, and da
boys in da 'hood are ready to FIGHT all that don't
agree with their "superiority."

So, we've got FLAME WARS in here.

Not only that, we get re-runs of tired old cliches
or the anonymous middle-schoolers who love to
be kids again so they can cuss out others with
NO sense of civility or comportment. A few of
those (such as Barnabus Blowhard...or whatever
IT is) making like some not-quite-funny Miss
Manners chiding all the other children. :-)

Well, they have their imaginary universes
locked up in their heads. They seem to be
happy in their status quondam...

I give up.

Never give up! :-)

Of course, for those of us doing OTHER things
(like trying to work with Win32 APIs and actual
electronic hardware designs NOT written up in
QST), there isn't enough time left to play with
the adolescents "serving" in the mighty fifth
branch of the military...the Archaic Radio-
telegraphy Society (ARS), a "service to the
nation!" :-)

I salute all them...one finger at a time...

wrote:
From: "bb" on Thurs,May 5 2005 6:51 pm

wrote:
From: "bb" on Wed,May 4 2005 4:13 pm

wrote:
From: "K0HB" on Tues,May 3 2005 5:59 pm

etc

It's awful. Those olde-tymers just CAN'T understand
why all the newcomers DON'T worship the olde-tymers'
ideals of long ago.

Hell, I'm OLDER than most of them and I STARTED on
HF...but NOT doing a bit of "CW." :-)

And so they still search for the answer.

So far, all I see is RATIONALIZATION for the
alleged efficacy of morse code. LOTS and LOTS
of old-style BS that went invalid around 1950
or so.

So far the only two people I see beating anyone up over it is you
and Brian. And no one is likely to want to talk to either of you...in
ANY mode...

The rest of us moved on.

Huge snip of usual "I hate anyone who's not me" drivel snipped

I salute all them...one finger at a time...

Of course you're waving from the outside looking in...But we'd
expect nothing less...It's all you've ever had to offer Amateur Radio.

Steve, K4YZ

"K4YZ" wrote in message
ups.com...

John Kasupski wrote:

[snip]

When they get to the local clubs and hook up with other newcomers
(and
the observation that the vast majority of newcomers to the ARS enter
via the Technician route is dead on...that's why it's called the
"entry-level license class"), they find the other Techs basically
doing the only things they're permitted to do, absent any meaningful
HF privileges unless they pass a code test - they're doing Skywarn;
tactical comms for parades, bike races, marathons; Field Day, etc.

"...absent any meaningful HF privileges..."

Sounds like a set-up for the "If you don't have HF you're not a
Ham" argument, John. Not only are well over 90% of all Amateur
allocations above 50Mhz, so are most ACTIVITIES above 50MHz.

I went on up to Extra thinking all the activities were on HF only
to find I keep pulling back to 50Mhz and up for a lot of my hamming
activities.

I think the "failure" comes only from thinking that there's
"nothing to do" above 50Mhz. That's just wrong.

Have you noticed how the majority of participants in non-repeater
VHF/UHF/and up activities are NOT the Technicians. Just get on during the
ARRL VHF contest and count the percentage of stations that are General class
and higher that you end up working.

My OM is a fan of the VHF realm and has made presentations to the club on
what you can do in these area of the hobby. The result? Well maybe 2 out
of 100 work satellites and SSB and another couple work FM simplex and SSB.
That's it (sigh).

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:
"K4YZ" wrote in message
ups.com...

John Kasupski wrote:

[snip]

When they get to the local clubs and hook up with other newcomers
(and
the observation that the vast majority of newcomers to the ARS
enter
via the Technician route is dead on...that's why it's called the
"entry-level license class"), they find the other Techs basically
doing the only things they're permitted to do, absent any
meaningful
HF privileges unless they pass a code test - they're doing
Skywarn;
tactical comms for parades, bike races, marathons; Field Day, etc.

"...absent any meaningful HF privileges..."

Sounds like a set-up for the "If you don't have HF you're not a
Ham" argument, John. Not only are well over 90% of all Amateur
allocations above 50Mhz, so are most ACTIVITIES above 50MHz.

I went on up to Extra thinking all the activities were on HF
only
to find I keep pulling back to 50Mhz and up for a lot of my hamming
activities.

I think the "failure" comes only from thinking that there's
"nothing to do" above 50Mhz. That's just wrong.

Have you noticed how the majority of participants in non-repeater
VHF/UHF/and up activities are NOT the Technicians. Just get on
during the
ARRL VHF contest and count the percentage of stations that are
General class
and higher that you end up working.

My OM is a fan of the VHF realm and has made presentations to the
club on
what you can do in these area of the hobby. The result? Well maybe
2 out
of 100 work satellites and SSB and another couple work FM simplex and
SSB.
That's it (sigh).

I guess it's a regional thing, Dee...The bands down here are alive
with a lot of stuff, including 2M SSB, etc...And lot's of the NCT's
that some other ill-informed individuals suggest have been "chased
away"...

73

Steve, K4YZ

K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
From: "bb" on Thurs,May 5 2005 6:51 pm

wrote:
From: "bb" on Wed,May 4 2005 4:13 pm

wrote:
From: "K0HB" on Tues,May 3 2005 5:59 pm

etc

It's awful. Those olde-tymers just CAN'T understand
why all the newcomers DON'T worship the olde-tymers'
ideals of long ago.

Hell, I'm OLDER than most of them and I STARTED on
HF...but NOT doing a bit of "CW." :-)

And so they still search for the answer.

So far, all I see is RATIONALIZATION for the
alleged efficacy of morse code. LOTS and LOTS
of old-style BS that went invalid around 1950
or so.

So far the only two people I see beating anyone up over it is
you
and Brian. And no one is likely to want to talk to either of
you...in
ANY mode...

The rest of us moved on.

Hi!!!

Looks like Steve can't take any more of Steve-Style Abuse. Poor thing.

Wonder why he thinks the rest of us like it?

"Dee Flint" wrote

Have you noticed how the majority of participants in non-repeater VHF/UHF/and
up activities are NOT the Technicians.

The Northern Lights Radio Society here in Minnesota is an organization of
operators who are active in weak signal (SSB/CW) work on the VHF, UHF, and
Microwave bands. I'm sure your OM has heard of the club. A significant number
of the members are Technician licensees.

May be different where you live, but in this area the Technicians do a lions
share of the work in Skywarn, Grandmas Marathon, Twin Cities Marathon, and a
host of public service events. During disaster recovery (floods and tornados)
events they are major contributors of time and talent.

Contrary to common sentiment, they are extraordinarily engaged in the local ham
scene and not just "shack-on-a-belt-repeater-lizards" as some like to
characterize them.

The sooner ARRL membership has Technicians as members in numbers proportional to
their population, the sooner ARRL will truly represent the full spectrum of
amateur licensees. My PBI seeks to make that happen.

73, de Hans, K0HB

"KØHB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Dee Flint" wrote

Have you noticed how the majority of participants in non-repeater
VHF/UHF/and up activities are NOT the Technicians.

The Northern Lights Radio Society here in Minnesota is an organization of
operators who are active in weak signal (SSB/CW) work on the VHF, UHF, and
Microwave bands. I'm sure your OM has heard of the club. A significant
number of the members are Technician licensees.

And half our members are Technicians also. And almost half our officers are
Technicians. We've been very successful in getting them engaged in the
club.

May be different where you live, but in this area the Technicians do a
lions share of the work in Skywarn, Grandmas Marathon, Twin Cities
Marathon, and a host of public service events. During disaster recovery
(floods and tornados) events they are major contributors of time and
talent.

As they do here.

Contrary to common sentiment, they are extraordinarily engaged in the
local ham scene and not just "shack-on-a-belt-repeater-lizards" as some
like to characterize them.

The Technicians here are also quite engaged in all the public service,
community, and club activities. What the participation seems to lag here is
in the wide range of on air activities.

The sooner ARRL membership has Technicians as members in numbers
proportional to their population, the sooner ARRL will truly represent the
full spectrum of amateur licensees. My PBI seeks to make that happen.

I thought that I had seen a statistic where close to half of the ARRL
membership were Technicians. If so, then it simply means that the Techs
need to get more involved on the management side to make things happen.
Afterall there is no reason that a Tech couldn't be President.

Perhaps if this PBI were more aimed at expanding the membership at all
levels it would be more fruitful. Very little change would be needed to
what you propose other than seeking out non-members of all classes.

73, de Hans, K0HB

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
From: "bb" on Thurs,May 5 2005 6:51 pm

wrote:
From: "bb" on Wed,May 4 2005 4:13 pm

wrote:
From: "K0HB" on Tues,May 3 2005 5:59 pm

etc

It's awful. Those olde-tymers just CAN'T understand
why all the newcomers DON'T worship the olde-tymers'
ideals of long ago.

Hell, I'm OLDER than most of them and I STARTED on
HF...but NOT doing a bit of "CW." :-)

And so they still search for the answer.

So far, all I see is RATIONALIZATION for the
alleged efficacy of morse code. LOTS and LOTS
of old-style BS that went invalid around 1950
or so.

So far the only two people I see beating anyone up over it is
you
and Brian. And no one is likely to want to talk to either of
you...in
ANY mode...

The rest of us moved on.
..
Looks like Steve can't take any more of Steve-Style Abuse. Poor
thing.

Wonder why he thinks the rest of us like it?

There's a small difference there, Brian.

When I make a mistake, I admit it.

When you ask for information (other than about non-radio aspects
of my military service), I tell you.

You, on the other hand, are a habitual liar. As is Leonard H.
Anderson.

It really is THAT simple.

Steve, K4YZ

Dee Flint wrote:

And half our members are Technicians also. And almost half our officers are
Technicians. We've been very successful in getting them engaged in the
club.

The Technicians have been kicked around by the 'higher class' licensees
or some time for some strange reason. There seems to be some elitists
attitude among some holding higher class licenses towards the Techs,
that they haven't quite attained the status of being a 'real ham' yet.
However, it seems that the Techs are doing one of the very things that
hams have long been noted for and helps justify our existance, that of
using ham radio for public service. They seem to be a class of folk who
aren't much interested in setting in front of an HF rig just to chat
with someone in the next state or country, but had much rather put their
energy into using ham radio to benefit others. Hooray for the Techs.

Dee Flint wrote:
"K=D8HB" wrote in message

.. . . .

The sooner ARRL membership has Technicians as members in numbers
proportional to their population, the sooner ARRL will truly
represent the
full spectrum of amateur licensees. My PBI seeks to make that
happen.

I thought that I had seen a statistic where close to half of the ARRL

membership were Technicians.

This thread was started by Hans who stated in so many words that Techs
are under-represented by the ARRL because they don't join in the
quantities other class licensees join that some changes need to be
made, etc., etc. ~Half the hams in this country are Techs. If, as you
state, half the Techs are also ARRL members then what's the point to
this whole thread?? Or is it me again?

If so, then it simply means that the Techs
need to get more involved on the management side to make things
happen.
Afterall there is no reason that a Tech couldn't be President.

Perhaps if this PBI were more aimed at expanding the membership at
all
levels it would be more fruitful. Very little change would be needed
to
what you propose other than seeking out non-members of all classes.
=20
73, de Hans, K0HB

=20
Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

w3rv

wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:

"Senior moment . . . "

This thread was started by Hans who stated in so many words that Techs
are under-represented by the ARRL because they don't join in the
quantities other class licensees join that some changes need to be
made, etc., etc. ~Half the hams in this country are Techs.

Change to:

If, as you state, *half the ARRL members are Techs* then what's the
point to this whole thread?? Or is it me again?

w3rv

From: "Dee Flint" on Sat,May 7 2005 5:08 am

"K=D8=88B" wrote in message
link.net...

"Dee Flint" wrote

Contrary to common sentiment, they are extraordinarily engaged in
the
local ham scene and not just "shack-on-a-belt-repeater-lizards" as
some
like to characterize them.

The Technicians here are also quite engaged in all the public service,

community, and club activities. What the participation seems to lag
here is
in the wide range of on air activities.

We can be sure some of your best friends are Technicians...

The sooner ARRL membership has Technicians as members in numbers
proportional to their population, the sooner ARRL will truly
represent the
full spectrum of amateur licensees. My PBI seeks to make that
happen.

I thought that I had seen a statistic where close to half of the ARRL
membership were Technicians.

Whose pipe smoke were you gazing at for that factoid?

The ARRL remains silent on demographics of its
membership. On the QST "Publisher's Sworn
Circulation Statement" [www.arrl.org/ads/circ.html]
page marked "last revised 17 March 2005," the
ARRL membership as of 31 December 2004 was 151,727.
The "individuals who are ARRL members" is given
as 138,127. Obvious discrepancy there. ARRL
does not clarify what seems to be a glaring error
in arithmetic...

That's about ALL that is given BY the ARRL on their
membership...or any other demographics.

According to www.hamdata.com, the total licensees
for U.S. radio amateurs was 733,080 on 7 May 2005.
Of those, 310,455 were Technician classes...which
works out to 42.35% of the total. If the ARRL
membership is really as high as 151,727 then that
represents only 20.70% of the total number of
licensed U.S. radio amateurs.

If so, then it simply means that the Techs
need to get more involved on the management side to make things
happen.

Long jump of a conclusion. Tsk, tsk. What
would your class say about that?

Afterall there is no reason that a Tech couldn't be President.

Quite true. The only requirement is that they
are natural-born citizens of the United States,
are at least 35 years old and been a resident of
the United States for at least 14 years.
- Article II, Section 1, Constitution of the
United States of America

Oh, you meant the ARRL? The ARRL laready has TWO
Presidents...Sumner and Haynie. Are you suggesting
they try for THREE? [incroyable...]

Perhaps if this PBI were more aimed at expanding the membership at all

levels it would be more fruitful. Very little change would be needed
to
what you propose other than seeking out non-members of all classes.

ARRL membership is dropping. [go look at older
BoD Membership reports] Dropping with essentially
NO change in their requirements. That is NOT good
for the League.

What is "seeking out non-members of all classes?"

First you say that "half the ARRL membership is
Technicians," then you want more attraction for
all classes? You aren't being clear in what you
are saying.

BTW, how DID the cake taste?

wrote

ARRL membership as of 31 December 2004 was 151,727.
The "individuals who are ARRL members" is given
as 138,127. Obvious discrepancy there. ARRL
does not clarify what seems to be a glaring error
in arithmetic...

No "discrepancy" exits; no "glaring error in arithmetic" exists.

QST circulation numbers will always be lower than ARRL membership numbers
because multi-member households recieve a single copy of QST.

Sunuvagun!

The ARRL laready has TWO Presidents...Sumner and Haynie.

Glaring error in arithmetic, Kindly Old Sir. There is only ONE President of
ARRL, Jim Haynie. Dave Sumner is Secretary and CEO.

Sunuvagun!

With all kind wishes,

de Hans, K0HB
--
The moving cursor prints, and having printed, blinks on.