"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:
wrote:

. . .

On the other hand, I believe that we should have a good
mix of ages.

Sure - but how much is enough? If, say, 10% of the US amateur
population were under the age of 21, would that be enough?

What "dire fate" would befall ham radio if there wasn't a single
licensee under 21? What do they actaully bring to hobby which is so
important?? Sorry, makes no sense, I just don't get it.

If it's a numbers game why not shift gears and recruit retirees instead
of chasing kids? The retirees are far more independent than kids,
they're more mature, on average they don't care about nonsense like
instant gratification and peer pressure and they have the time the kids
don't have. And in most cases they also have the money the kids don't
have.

w3rv


I've often suggested recruiting people in the 40 to 50 year old range.
Their kids are grown or nearly so. They have a better income than when
they
were younger and a little more free time than when they were younger. And
they are still young enough to have energy and enthusiasm for new
activities.

Personally I try to encourage everyone of all ages who shows even a hint
of
interest.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE



Hello, Dee

You are one who is an asset to amateur radio. One who doesn't quibble over
someone's age, gender, or background (heaven help us if it is a cber wanting
to get in LOL).

Go tell 'em, gal!


The best of 73s from Rochester, NY (someone will gripe about a plural here
LOL)
Jim

ps - I consider the best of 73s to be a singular collective and think Dee
deserves a big *thanks* for encouraging anyone and everyone!


pps - anyone who thinks not, just be my guest and ZBM-2

)

wrote:
wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:
wrote:
. . .
On the other hand, I believe that we should have a good
mix of ages.

Sure - but how much is enough? If, say, 10% of the US amateur
population were under the age of 21, would that be enough?

What "dire fate" would befall ham radio if there wasn't a single
licensee under 21? What do they actaully bring to hobby which
is so
important?? Sorry, makes no sense, I just don't get it.

Whole bunch of things:

1) Youth is the future

2) One of the Basis and Purposes of the ARS is education - which
includes things like educating youth. Even if a young ham does
not become an engineer or technical type, the technical background
of ham radio is a good thing to have.

3) The ARS has the image of an "old white guy's hobby" in some
circles. While that's not an accurate picture, losing younger
hams isn't going to help things

4) Young folks have a lot to offer the ARS.

If it's a numbers game why not shift gears and recruit retirees instead of chasing kids?

That's been going on for a couple decades now. Look at the folks
we did FD with a few years ago - most of the older folks in that
crowd were licensed after age 55.

The thing to do is what Dee says - recruit anyone with an interest.

The retirees are far more independent than kids,

Very true.

they're more mature,

HAH! Look at the FCC enforcement letters - you don't see many
young people being cited for serious operating violations.

There was a guy in Florida named Flippo or some such, and now
Gerritsen in LA. They have no counterparts in the younger
crowd.

Or you can look at the behavior of one "retired from
regular hours" frequent poster here....Maturity?

on average they don't care about nonsense like
instant gratification and peer pressure
and they have the time the kids
don't have. And in most cases they also have the money the kids don't have.

Those I'll agree with.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Jim Hampton wrote:
wrote in message

.. . . . .

Kelly,

I think we're batting our gums over nothing.

When you get right down to it you're probably right. Which is typical
of just about all threads in this NG.

The original post, in my mind,
hit the nail on the head.
Technical folks seem to be almost unwanted in the
United States. One reason for amateur radio (at least in the past) was to
attract the technically oriented and hopefully some would persue their
interest and become engineers.

Nice warm fuzzy theory and it worked in a number of cases. Fact is
though that if a ham ticket was some sort of prerequisite for becoming
an EE the EE discipline would be basically to invisible in this
country. Which it certainly is not.

Engineers don't make tons of money these days. Skilled trades folks are
almost unwanted. I had to laugh, there were ads for toolmakers (a number of
years minimum experience) that ran $10.00 to $12.00 per hour.

I was raised in my Dad's 20-man took & die works but I wised up after a
couple years on the bench and went to engineering school, I know that
biz well. The job shop rate around here is in the $25/hr range. One of
my brothers who has his papers is knocking down $30+/hr and has UAW
bennies I'd kill for plus he has all the OT he can be bothered with.
Must be a *flock* of unemployed toolmakers around Rochester . .

I just saw an
ad for a parking lot attendent at $11.00 per hour. Of course, the
requirements for that job were tough. Almost as tough as amateur radio
requirements. Not only did you need a high school diploma (or ged, or
equivalent experience), you had to be able to make change without the use of
a computer or calculator!

Meanwhile, Russia launches Direct TVs latest hi-definition satellite, China
does the manufacturing.

As to your suggestion about putting a minimum age limit for amateurs,

Whoa: Stop Jim. Go back and read my post and point out where I
suggested anything about an age limit on anybody or anything.

raising it enough (say to 55) would ensure that mostly appliance operators
apply.

Sorry, I can't agree on an age limit for amateurs (although I understand
what you mean about the numbers game - therefor the suggestion). Meanwhile,
we have to get rid of manufacturing and perhaps teachers too. We have more
important stuff to deal with, such as the weapons of mass destruction.


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

w3rv

wrote in message
oups.com...
Jim Hampton wrote:
wrote in message

. . . . .

Kelly,

I think we're batting our gums over nothing.

When you get right down to it you're probably right. Which is typical
of just about all threads in this NG.

The original post, in my mind,
hit the nail on the head.
Technical folks seem to be almost unwanted in the
United States. One reason for amateur radio (at least in the past) was
to
attract the technically oriented and hopefully some would persue their
interest and become engineers.

Nice warm fuzzy theory and it worked in a number of cases. Fact is
though that if a ham ticket was some sort of prerequisite for becoming
an EE the EE discipline would be basically to invisible in this
country. Which it certainly is not.

Engineers don't make tons of money these days. Skilled trades folks are
almost unwanted. I had to laugh, there were ads for toolmakers (a
number of
years minimum experience) that ran $10.00 to $12.00 per hour.

I was raised in my Dad's 20-man took & die works but I wised up after a
couple years on the bench and went to engineering school, I know that
biz well. The job shop rate around here is in the $25/hr range. One of
my brothers who has his papers is knocking down $30+/hr and has UAW
bennies I'd kill for plus he has all the OT he can be bothered with.
Must be a *flock* of unemployed toolmakers around Rochester . .

I just saw an
ad for a parking lot attendent at $11.00 per hour. Of course, the
requirements for that job were tough. Almost as tough as amateur radio
requirements. Not only did you need a high school diploma (or ged, or
equivalent experience), you had to be able to make change without the
use of
a computer or calculator!

Meanwhile, Russia launches Direct TVs latest hi-definition satellite,
China
does the manufacturing.

As to your suggestion about putting a minimum age limit for amateurs,

Whoa: Stop Jim. Go back and read my post and point out where I
suggested anything about an age limit on anybody or anything.

raising it enough (say to 55) would ensure that mostly appliance
operators
apply.

Sorry, I can't agree on an age limit for amateurs (although I understand
what you mean about the numbers game - therefor the suggestion).
Meanwhile,
we have to get rid of manufacturing and perhaps teachers too. We have
more
important stuff to deal with, such as the weapons of mass destruction.


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

w3rv


Hello, Kelly

As I re-read the thread, I agree. You were stating "if a numbers game",
etc.

As to this area, Rochester is about as depressed as it gets right now. We
were rated number one or two a couple weeks ago.

You are correct in that a good toolmaker should be knocking down $30.00 per
hour or so. I made $12.00 plus an hour in 1978! I've heard some toolmakers
that were loosing their jobs that they refused to work for $10.00 per hour
and I don't blame them.

What goes around, comes around. 20 years from now, there won't be the
skilled workforce nor the engineers to fill positions. It will be sad, but
once we have sunk to equal to the lowest common denominator, there will be
no folks to fill the positions.

Of course, we can Kaizaan the problem (is the spelling correct?). The
managers can have a coffee and doughnut party, but it will be to no avail.


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

wrote in message
ups.com...
wrote:
wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:
wrote:
. . .
On the other hand, I believe that we should have a good
mix of ages.

Sure - but how much is enough? If, say, 10% of the US amateur
population were under the age of 21, would that be enough?

What "dire fate" would befall ham radio if there wasn't a single
licensee under 21? What do they actaully bring to hobby which
is so
important?? Sorry, makes no sense, I just don't get it.

Whole bunch of things:

1) Youth is the future

2) One of the Basis and Purposes of the ARS is education - which
includes things like educating youth. Even if a young ham does
not become an engineer or technical type, the technical background
of ham radio is a good thing to have.

3) The ARS has the image of an "old white guy's hobby" in some
circles. While that's not an accurate picture, losing younger
hams isn't going to help things

4) Young folks have a lot to offer the ARS.

If it's a numbers game why not shift gears and recruit retirees
instead of chasing kids?

That's been going on for a couple decades now. Look at the folks
we did FD with a few years ago - most of the older folks in that
crowd were licensed after age 55.

The thing to do is what Dee says - recruit anyone with an interest.

The retirees are far more independent than kids,

Very true.

they're more mature,

HAH! Look at the FCC enforcement letters - you don't see many
young people being cited for serious operating violations.

There was a guy in Florida named Flippo or some such, and now
Gerritsen in LA. They have no counterparts in the younger
crowd.

Or you can look at the behavior of one "retired from
regular hours" frequent poster here....Maturity?

on average they don't care about nonsense like
instant gratification and peer pressure
and they have the time the kids
don't have. And in most cases they also have the money the kids don't
have.

Those I'll agree with.

73 de Jim, N2EY


Hello, Jim

I sent an off-group message to Dee. You are correct in that she is correct.

The less arguing and more recruiting we can do, the better.


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

wrote in message
ups.com...
wrote:
wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:
wrote:
. . .
On the other hand, I believe that we should have a good
mix of ages.

Sure - but how much is enough? If, say, 10% of the US amateur
population were under the age of 21, would that be enough?

What "dire fate" would befall ham radio if there wasn't a single
licensee under 21? What do they actaully bring to hobby which
is so
important?? Sorry, makes no sense, I just don't get it.

Whole bunch of things:

1) Youth is the future


Old thought pattern. Amateur Radio has turned into a hobby for the "older
crowd".
The youth of today are too busy getting daddy and mommy to buy them a new
cell phone
and/or laptop.

2) One of the Basis and Purposes of the ARS is education - which
includes things like educating youth. Even if a young ham does
not become an engineer or technical type, the technical background
of ham radio is a good thing to have.

So who is going to educate them? How many ham stations have you
seen at a school lately? For that matter....when is your club going to put
on a school demo?

3) The ARS has the image of an "old white guy's hobby" in some
circles. While that's not an accurate picture, losing younger
hams isn't going to help things

4) Young folks have a lot to offer the ARS.


Sure they do.....so go recruit them. Stop jacking your jaws and do
something.

If it's a numbers game why not shift gears and recruit retirees instead
of chasing kids?


There you go....were zero beat now.


That's been going on for a couple decades now. Look at the folks
we did FD with a few years ago - most of the older folks in that
crowd were licensed after age 55.

The thing to do is what Dee says - recruit anyone with an interest.


Correct.


The retirees are far more independent than kids,

Very true.

they're more mature,


And they got the money to buy a rig, antenna, house and lot to put it
on...etc.

HAH! Look at the FCC enforcement letters - you don't see many
young people being cited for serious operating violations.

Of course not. They have a signal to be heard. FCC can't hear anything
below 20/9.

There was a guy in Florida named Flippo or some such, and now
Gerritsen in LA. They have no counterparts in the younger
crowd.

Oh really? How about that computer geek in California that hacked all the
computer
systems????? He was a ham....forgot his call.

Or you can look at the behavior of one "retired from
regular hours" frequent poster here....Maturity?

on average they don't care about nonsense like
instant gratification and peer pressure
and they have the time the kids
don't have. And in most cases they also have the money the kids don't
have.

Those I'll agree with.

73 de Jim, N2EY


There are pro/con on all the above. IMHO the basic thing....recruit all
those you can and
let the chips fall where they will. You have to love Ham Radio to come and
join us. If you
don't.......(this will tick em off) WE DON'T NEED YA.

Dan/W4NTI

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Jim Hampton wrote:
wrote in message

. . . . .

Kelly,

I think we're batting our gums over nothing.

When you get right down to it you're probably right. Which is typical
of just about all threads in this NG.

The original post, in my mind,
hit the nail on the head.
Technical folks seem to be almost unwanted in the
United States. One reason for amateur radio (at least in the past) was
to
attract the technically oriented and hopefully some would persue their
interest and become engineers.

Nice warm fuzzy theory and it worked in a number of cases. Fact is
though that if a ham ticket was some sort of prerequisite for becoming
an EE the EE discipline would be basically to invisible in this
country. Which it certainly is not.

Engineers don't make tons of money these days. Skilled trades folks
are
almost unwanted. I had to laugh, there were ads for toolmakers (a
number of
years minimum experience) that ran $10.00 to $12.00 per hour.

I was raised in my Dad's 20-man took & die works but I wised up after a
couple years on the bench and went to engineering school, I know that
biz well. The job shop rate around here is in the $25/hr range. One of
my brothers who has his papers is knocking down $30+/hr and has UAW
bennies I'd kill for plus he has all the OT he can be bothered with.
Must be a *flock* of unemployed toolmakers around Rochester . .

I just saw an
ad for a parking lot attendent at $11.00 per hour. Of course, the
requirements for that job were tough. Almost as tough as amateur radio
requirements. Not only did you need a high school diploma (or ged, or
equivalent experience), you had to be able to make change without the
use of
a computer or calculator!

Meanwhile, Russia launches Direct TVs latest hi-definition satellite,
China
does the manufacturing.

As to your suggestion about putting a minimum age limit for amateurs,

Whoa: Stop Jim. Go back and read my post and point out where I
suggested anything about an age limit on anybody or anything.

raising it enough (say to 55) would ensure that mostly appliance
operators
apply.

Sorry, I can't agree on an age limit for amateurs (although I
understand
what you mean about the numbers game - therefor the suggestion).
Meanwhile,
we have to get rid of manufacturing and perhaps teachers too. We have
more
important stuff to deal with, such as the weapons of mass destruction.


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

w3rv


Hello, Kelly

As I re-read the thread, I agree. You were stating "if a numbers game",
etc.

As to this area, Rochester is about as depressed as it gets right now. We
were rated number one or two a couple weeks ago.

You are correct in that a good toolmaker should be knocking down $30.00
per
hour or so. I made $12.00 plus an hour in 1978! I've heard some
toolmakers
that were loosing their jobs that they refused to work for $10.00 per hour
and I don't blame them.

What goes around, comes around. 20 years from now, there won't be the
skilled workforce nor the engineers to fill positions. It will be sad,
but
once we have sunk to equal to the lowest common denominator, there will be
no folks to fill the positions.

Of course, we can Kaizaan the problem (is the spelling correct?). The
managers can have a coffee and doughnut party, but it will be to no avail.


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA




Your right Jim. I see no chance for the USA to stay on top. IMHO it is due
to the liberal mindset that started in the 60s and has taken over our public
schools and Universities.

And I see no help for it.

Dan/W4NTI

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
link.net...

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Jim Hampton wrote:
wrote in message

. . . . .

Kelly,

I think we're batting our gums over nothing.

When you get right down to it you're probably right. Which is typical
of just about all threads in this NG.

The original post, in my mind,
hit the nail on the head.
Technical folks seem to be almost unwanted in the
United States. One reason for amateur radio (at least in the past)
was
to
attract the technically oriented and hopefully some would persue
their
interest and become engineers.

Nice warm fuzzy theory and it worked in a number of cases. Fact is
though that if a ham ticket was some sort of prerequisite for becoming
an EE the EE discipline would be basically to invisible in this
country. Which it certainly is not.

Engineers don't make tons of money these days. Skilled trades folks
are
almost unwanted. I had to laugh, there were ads for toolmakers (a
number of
years minimum experience) that ran $10.00 to $12.00 per hour.

I was raised in my Dad's 20-man took & die works but I wised up after a
couple years on the bench and went to engineering school, I know that
biz well. The job shop rate around here is in the $25/hr range. One of
my brothers who has his papers is knocking down $30+/hr and has UAW
bennies I'd kill for plus he has all the OT he can be bothered with.
Must be a *flock* of unemployed toolmakers around Rochester . .

I just saw an
ad for a parking lot attendent at $11.00 per hour. Of course, the
requirements for that job were tough. Almost as tough as amateur
radio
requirements. Not only did you need a high school diploma (or ged,
or
equivalent experience), you had to be able to make change without the
use of
a computer or calculator!

Meanwhile, Russia launches Direct TVs latest hi-definition satellite,
China
does the manufacturing.

As to your suggestion about putting a minimum age limit for amateurs,

Whoa: Stop Jim. Go back and read my post and point out where I
suggested anything about an age limit on anybody or anything.

raising it enough (say to 55) would ensure that mostly appliance
operators
apply.

Sorry, I can't agree on an age limit for amateurs (although I
understand
what you mean about the numbers game - therefor the suggestion).
Meanwhile,
we have to get rid of manufacturing and perhaps teachers too. We
have
more
important stuff to deal with, such as the weapons of mass
destruction.


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

w3rv


Hello, Kelly

As I re-read the thread, I agree. You were stating "if a numbers game",
etc.

As to this area, Rochester is about as depressed as it gets right now.
We
were rated number one or two a couple weeks ago.

You are correct in that a good toolmaker should be knocking down $30.00
per
hour or so. I made $12.00 plus an hour in 1978! I've heard some
toolmakers
that were loosing their jobs that they refused to work for $10.00 per
hour
and I don't blame them.

What goes around, comes around. 20 years from now, there won't be the
skilled workforce nor the engineers to fill positions. It will be sad,
but
once we have sunk to equal to the lowest common denominator, there will
be
no folks to fill the positions.

Of course, we can Kaizaan the problem (is the spelling correct?). The
managers can have a coffee and doughnut party, but it will be to no
avail.


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA




Your right Jim. I see no chance for the USA to stay on top. IMHO it is
due
to the liberal mindset that started in the 60s and has taken over our
public
schools and Universities.

And I see no help for it.

Dan/W4NTI



Hello, Dan

Cutting aid to eduation, the V.A., and other programs is a function of the
liberal mindset?

Meanwhile, a ton of cuts for the rich. BTW, they want to eliminate the
deposit (5 cents) per can of soda (and other stuff such as beer) in NYS.
They wish to replace it with a similar *tax*! Have you noticed that they
wish to eliminate (or have they already) a deduction for energy efficient
vehicles - yet retain a deduction for SUVs weighing over .... what is it, 3
tons?

The so-called liberals wanted the deposit to encourage folks to return the
cans and not leave them all over the place. Pataki (our governor) and his
gang (republicans) want to replace the deposit with a *tax*! They can't
stand to see the money returned to the people.

The reality is that the Republicans want to kill the poor to save the rich.

Nice try.

Given a few years of our troups being killed in Iraq, I'll be interested in
seeing how they will replace them. Duty *forever* in Iraq is not likely to
work.

I had no problems with attacking Afganistan. Iraq, however, with its'
weapons of mass destruction .... well, sooner or later the folks with the
modest double-digit I.Q.s will wake up. How many weapons of mass
destruction have they found? England is really upset with Tony Blair. They
want him out. I offered to trade Bush for him, but, unfortunately, no one
wants Bush.

Of course, the Democrats that get elected because of this will be blamed
when they have to make changes. Changes will have to be made, whether we
like it or not.

BTW, I didn't inhale )




Best regards from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
link.net...

wrote in message
ups.com...
wrote:
wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:
wrote:
. . .
On the other hand, I believe that we should have a good
mix of ages.

Sure - but how much is enough? If, say, 10% of the US amateur
population were under the age of 21, would that be enough?

What "dire fate" would befall ham radio if there wasn't a single
licensee under 21? What do they actaully bring to hobby which
is so
important?? Sorry, makes no sense, I just don't get it.

Whole bunch of things:

1) Youth is the future


Old thought pattern. Amateur Radio has turned into a hobby for the "older
crowd".
The youth of today are too busy getting daddy and mommy to buy them a new
cell phone
and/or laptop.

2) One of the Basis and Purposes of the ARS is education - which
includes things like educating youth. Even if a young ham does
not become an engineer or technical type, the technical background
of ham radio is a good thing to have.

So who is going to educate them? How many ham stations have you
seen at a school lately? For that matter....when is your club going to
put
on a school demo?

3) The ARS has the image of an "old white guy's hobby" in some
circles. While that's not an accurate picture, losing younger
hams isn't going to help things

4) Young folks have a lot to offer the ARS.


Sure they do.....so go recruit them. Stop jacking your jaws and do
something.

If it's a numbers game why not shift gears and recruit retirees
instead
of chasing kids?


There you go....were zero beat now.


That's been going on for a couple decades now. Look at the folks
we did FD with a few years ago - most of the older folks in that
crowd were licensed after age 55.

The thing to do is what Dee says - recruit anyone with an interest.


Correct.


The retirees are far more independent than kids,

Very true.

they're more mature,


And they got the money to buy a rig, antenna, house and lot to put it
on...etc.

HAH! Look at the FCC enforcement letters - you don't see many
young people being cited for serious operating violations.

Of course not. They have a signal to be heard. FCC can't hear anything
below 20/9.

There was a guy in Florida named Flippo or some such, and now
Gerritsen in LA. They have no counterparts in the younger
crowd.

Oh really? How about that computer geek in California that hacked all
the
computer
systems????? He was a ham....forgot his call.

Or you can look at the behavior of one "retired from
regular hours" frequent poster here....Maturity?

on average they don't care about nonsense like
instant gratification and peer pressure
and they have the time the kids
don't have. And in most cases they also have the money the kids don't
have.

Those I'll agree with.

73 de Jim, N2EY


There are pro/con on all the above. IMHO the basic thing....recruit all
those you can and
let the chips fall where they will. You have to love Ham Radio to come
and
join us. If you
don't.......(this will tick em off) WE DON'T NEED YA.

Dan/W4NTI


Point well made, Dan

73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

Your right Jim. I see no chance for the USA to stay on top. IMHO it is
due
to the liberal mindset that started in the 60s and has taken over our
public
schools and Universities.

And I see no help for it.

Dan/W4NTI



Hello, Dan

Cutting aid to eduation, the V.A., and other programs is a function of the
liberal mindset?

No. The liberals want to increase taxes to pay for these entitlements.
Trouble is the Liberal mindset is that there is never enough taxation.
Who pays these taxes?
Liberals brought us Medicare, a system fraught with fraud and theft. Dittos
for Food Stamps. Likewise for Govt. subsidized housing, now in the third and
fourth generations.

Meanwhile, a ton of cuts for the rich. BTW, they want to eliminate the
deposit (5 cents) per can of soda (and other stuff such as beer) in NYS.
They wish to replace it with a similar *tax*! Have you noticed that they
wish to eliminate (or have they already) a deduction for energy efficient
vehicles - yet retain a deduction for SUVs weighing over .... what is it, 3
tons?

Look at the facts. The "rich" pay far more than the every day Joe Sixpack
worker.
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/men...s .guest.html

The so-called liberals wanted the deposit to encourage folks to return the
cans and not leave them all over the place. Pataki (our governor) and his
gang (republicans) want to replace the deposit with a *tax*! They can't
stand to see the money returned to the people.

The reality is that the Republicans want to kill the poor to save the rich.

Yet more Liberal invective based on emotion rather than facts. Why not do
what other states are doing. Eliminate the silly deposit requirement?
Typical Liberal mindset. More Goverment intervention into personal lives...

Nice try.

Poor try.

Given a few years of our troups being killed in Iraq, I'll be interested in
seeing how they will replace them. Duty *forever* in Iraq is not likely to
work.

Yet the morale of our troops is extremely high and despite the liberal
press, they come home feeling as though they are doing a good thing. Dan
Rather and you excluded.

I had no problems with attacking Afganistan. Iraq, however, with its'
weapons of mass destruction .... well, sooner or later the folks with the
modest double-digit I.Q.s will wake up. How many weapons of mass
destruction have they found? England is really upset with Tony Blair. They
want him out. I offered to trade Bush for him, but, unfortunately, no one
wants Bush.

That explains why he won a second term, hands down, despite rampant voter
fraud in the blue states.

Of course, the Democrats that get elected because of this will be blamed
when they have to make changes. Changes will have to be made, whether we
like it or not.

After 8 years of our troops, ships, and yes, the First Ever World Trade
Center Bombing under Clinton's rule...changes indeed must be made.
Terrorists were emboldened by Clinton's inaction and yes, cowardice.

BTW, I didn't inhale )

Not necessary. Your thought processes are already befuddled enough.


Best regards from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

Dittos.

And while I have the podium, Jim, I agree with Dan on this one. The Liberal
mindset has turned our schools inside out. Our kids cannot recite the Pledge
of Allegiance because it has, GASP!, the God word in it. Yet the Muslim kids
in New York are allowed to kneel toward Mecca several times a day and the
Liberals say not one word about that. That is called "tolerance", while any
mention of God has to be dealt with and eliminated quickly lest the
Christians "indoctrinate" our kids.
Graduating eighth-graders have never heard of the Getteysburg Address,
Antietam or Atlanta. I guess their liberal teachers were too busy teaching
them to be "tolerant" of alternate lifestyles. Our sixth graders have no
idea who Abe Lincoln was, that he enacted the Emancipatiion Proclamation,
but they know all about Martin Luther King and Muhammed.
Our fifth graders know nothing of our Constitution, but they know that guns
are bad and Rap Music is good.
Our fourth graders don't understand why their mommy and daddy got a divorce,
but they know that it is OK for Little Johnny to have two Dads or two
Mommies.
Our third graders are fast learning that they cannot bring to school photos
of their dads or moms who are serving in the military for Show and Tell.
Allah forbid that the kids should be subjected to a photo of a proud Marine
doing his or her duty for our country. The liberal teachers call that "zero
tolerance".
Oh, the latest Liberal hoot? A couple of school systems are now being ever
so gracious in allowing the kids to recite The Pledge, but they must now
omit the Gasp!, God word and replace it with "your belief". How sickeningly
politically correct.

The Liberals, accompanied by the likes of Chappaquiddic Ted are doing our
country great harm. You could't pay me to be a Democrat, but obviously there
are those who can be.

Dan is correct on this one. You lose.