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#81
June 5th 05, 03:16 AM
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#82
June 5th 05, 03:29 AM
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Mike:
That would really be funny--if it wasn't so pathetic... How about a few calculus questions on the test, how about having to write short story with grammar, spelling and punctuation correct. How about having to give a description of the physics of the electron-hole theory, argument at to why the theory should be considered valid, and an opposing argument on why it should be considered flawed. How about demonstrating how the quadratic formula relates to thermal physics, electrical physics--some examples of its' uses in both... Gesus, the ham exams are for dummies... get real... When the hams talk about how difficult the test EVER was it is a joke, the damn test can be passed by any second year college student after a day of study... you guys end up describing the size of your own mind when you do this--and still after all these years you have not figured it out--people laugh--haven't you seen them laughing before, surely you caught one or two out of the corner of your eye? Wake up... the only reason people don't rub your nose in your own dog poop is they are not like you--they have been raised differently--they try to be nice no matter what... but there is an end to tolerance of bad behavior... John "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... wrote: Look at the old ham mags and other publications (ARRL and non-ARRL, doesn't matter as long as it was a ham- oriented publication) of the so-called golden years of, say, the '50s. Back when we had annual growth of about 8% year after year. They *weren't* specifically aimed at "young'uns". The license requirements *weren't* reduced (as NCVEC and others want to do) to make the tests easier for kids to pass. The "Beginner And Novice" columns weren't aimed at teenagers or any other age group. And that may be a big part of what made them so attractive to kids! Let us assume that a company makes a video game. It's pretty popular and sells a lot. They would like to sell more. Should they make their next game really easy? Will millions more teenagers buy the game because they can beat the game the first time they play it? Do they want to make it so hard that it is impossible to beat? BTW, the answer is no on both counts. People who would play video games do not buy games that are too easy to beat. Nor too hard. Comparisons to the ease or difficulty of the ARS licensing process are invited. - Mike KB3EIA - |
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#84
June 5th 05, 07:28 PM
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wrote:
wrote: wrote: wrote: wrote: wrote: 3) The ARS has the image of an "old white guy's hobby" in some circles. In a *lot* of circles and they're basically right. This phenomenon is a result of evolutionary forces at work within the hobby. There are two choices he Go with the obvious flow and accept where Mother Nature is leading us and take advantage of it -OR- fight Mother which is always a losing battle and try to keep applying the mores, values and expectations of the yesteryears when we came into the hobby50, 30 even 20 years ago. Actually I we should go back to those "mores, values and expectations of the yesteryears" Liked that one dinya? Heh. "Going back" ain't gonna happen but let's not dig this one up for the umpteenth time. - in a way. Look at the old ham mags and other publications (ARRL and non-ARRL, doesn't matter as long as it was a ham- oriented publication) of the so-called golden years of, say, the '50s. Back when we had annual growth of about 8% year after year. They *weren't* specifically aimed at "young'uns". Kids in that timeframe lived in the remnants of the old "children should be seen and not heard" mindset. Unless some publication was somehow directly related to school classwork it was written for adults. Particulary if there was any technical content and the ARRL followed suite. Bingo - why can't that be the way things are again? The license requirements *weren't* reduced (as NCVEC and others want to do) to make the tests easier for kids to pass. Of course not, no more so than the state made it easier for kids to get drivers licenses. For the same underlying regulatory reasons. Yet there were plenty of "young'uns". Which proves my point, thanks. The "Beginner And Novice" columns weren't aimed at teenagers or any other age group. And that may be a big part of what made them so attractive to kids! Nah, never entered our minds. Not consciously. Ham radio was an adult hobby and we accepted it. Period. 'zactly. If ya wanted to be part of it you met the standards for it. Watta concept, huh? Somebody tell NCVEC. We were used to having to read at the adult level when it came to technical publications, there were no options, we didn't know the difference. There were beginners publications in some hobby fields but I don't remember any in ham radio "How To Become A Radio Amateur" "Learning The Radiotelegraph Code" "Understanding Amateur Radio" "So You Want To Be A Ham" "ABC's of Hma Radio" and they were all written for adults. BINGO! In another direction kid hams were a tiny and poverty-struck book and magazine market, there's no money in a market like that so nobody wrote for specifically for us. In yet another direction all the kid hams I knew had adult-level reading skills by the time they were twelve or so and wouldn't have bothered with being spoon-fed kiddie sorts of writings even if they were available. All those basic factors are the same today. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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#85
June 5th 05, 07:46 PM
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.... yeah, in other words, let's just kick back, have a drink and see if
this all pans out--hell, these oldsters just may pull off what they have planned and live forever--then again, we should be prepared if not... Warmest regards, John wrote in message oups.com... wrote: wrote: wrote: wrote: wrote: wrote: 3) The ARS has the image of an "old white guy's hobby" in some circles. In a *lot* of circles and they're basically right. This phenomenon is a result of evolutionary forces at work within the hobby. There are two choices he Go with the obvious flow and accept where Mother Nature is leading us and take advantage of it -OR- fight Mother which is always a losing battle and try to keep applying the mores, values and expectations of the yesteryears when we came into the hobby50, 30 even 20 years ago. Actually I we should go back to those "mores, values and expectations of the yesteryears" Liked that one dinya? Heh. "Going back" ain't gonna happen but let's not dig this one up for the umpteenth time. - in a way. Look at the old ham mags and other publications (ARRL and non-ARRL, doesn't matter as long as it was a ham- oriented publication) of the so-called golden years of, say, the '50s. Back when we had annual growth of about 8% year after year. They *weren't* specifically aimed at "young'uns". Kids in that timeframe lived in the remnants of the old "children should be seen and not heard" mindset. Unless some publication was somehow directly related to school classwork it was written for adults. Particulary if there was any technical content and the ARRL followed suite. Bingo - why can't that be the way things are again? The license requirements *weren't* reduced (as NCVEC and others want to do) to make the tests easier for kids to pass. Of course not, no more so than the state made it easier for kids to get drivers licenses. For the same underlying regulatory reasons. Yet there were plenty of "young'uns". Which proves my point, thanks. The "Beginner And Novice" columns weren't aimed at teenagers or any other age group. And that may be a big part of what made them so attractive to kids! Nah, never entered our minds. Not consciously. Ham radio was an adult hobby and we accepted it. Period. 'zactly. If ya wanted to be part of it you met the standards for it. Watta concept, huh? Somebody tell NCVEC. We were used to having to read at the adult level when it came to technical publications, there were no options, we didn't know the difference. There were beginners publications in some hobby fields but I don't remember any in ham radio "How To Become A Radio Amateur" "Learning The Radiotelegraph Code" "Understanding Amateur Radio" "So You Want To Be A Ham" "ABC's of Hma Radio" and they were all written for adults. BINGO! In another direction kid hams were a tiny and poverty-struck book and magazine market, there's no money in a market like that so nobody wrote for specifically for us. In yet another direction all the kid hams I knew had adult-level reading skills by the time they were twelve or so and wouldn't have bothered with being spoon-fed kiddie sorts of writings even if they were available. All those basic factors are the same today. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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#86
June 6th 05, 02:02 AM
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Mike Coslo wrote: wrote: Look at the old ham mags and other publications (ARRL and non-ARRL, doesn't matter as long as it was a ham- oriented publication) of the so-called golden years of, say, the '50s. Back when we had annual growth of about 8% year after year. They *weren't* specifically aimed at "young'uns". The license requirements *weren't* reduced (as NCVEC and others want to do) to make the tests easier for kids to pass. The "Beginner And Novice" columns weren't aimed at teenagers or any other age group. And that may be a big part of what made them so attractive to kids! Let us assume that a company makes a video game. It's pretty popular and sells a lot. They would like to sell more. Should they make their next game really easy? Will millions more teenagers buy the game because they can beat the game the first time they play it? Do they want to make it so hard that it is impossible to beat? BTW, the answer is no on both counts. People who would play video games do not buy games that are too easy to beat. Nor too hard. Comparisons to the ease or difficulty of the ARS licensing process are invited. - Mike KB3EIA - Now if they were to make a game that you weren't allowed to play until you could beat it, your analogy would be closer to amateur reality. bb |
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#87
June 6th 05, 02:55 AM
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Mike Coslo wrote:
wrote: Look at the old ham mags and other publications (ARRL and non-ARRL, doesn't matter as long as it was a ham- oriented publication) of the so-called golden years of, say, the '50s. Back when we had annual growth of about 8% year after year. They *weren't* specifically aimed at "young'uns". The license requirements *weren't* reduced (as NCVEC and others want to do) to make the tests easier for kids to pass. The "Beginner And Novice" columns weren't aimed at teenagers or any other age group. And that may be a big part of what made them so attractive to kids! Let us assume that a company makes a video game. It's pretty popular and sells a lot. They would like to sell more. Should they make their next game really easy? Of course not. Will millions more teenagers buy the game because they can beat the game the first time they play it? If anything, that will cause the game to be unpopular because it presents no challenge and requires no skill. Do they want to make it so hard that it is impossible to beat? Probably not. BTW, the answer is no on both counts. People who would play video games do not buy games that are too easy to beat. Nor too hard. Comparisons to the ease or difficulty of the ARS licensing process are invited. Some points: 1) Amateur radio is not a video game. It's much more complex than that. 2) Anybody can buy a video game - all you need is cash. And if you're satisfied to play older games, they can often be had for very little money, or even free. The need for skill comes only when you go to play the game. 3) The tests for an amateur radio license in the USA have varied in the degree and types of knowledge required. (Skills are a type of knowledge). But they have never required a very high level of knowledge to pass. And the licenses have been earned by people of all ages and all walks of life. 4) Reducing the license test requirements has not brought sustained growth to US amateur radio. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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#88
June 6th 05, 03:02 AM
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The only way I could think you could reduce the number of games
sold/played on computers is to make the kids get a license before they can have a computer. Now the test could be pretty damn complicate, but if you require them to pass a 50 wpm typing test the numbers will drop... now consider that they will view having to learn code for a license as totally preposterous and you are close to getting a clue... It is the code, not the exam... John wrote in message oups.com... Mike Coslo wrote: wrote: Look at the old ham mags and other publications (ARRL and non-ARRL, doesn't matter as long as it was a ham- oriented publication) of the so-called golden years of, say, the '50s. Back when we had annual growth of about 8% year after year. They *weren't* specifically aimed at "young'uns". The license requirements *weren't* reduced (as NCVEC and others want to do) to make the tests easier for kids to pass. The "Beginner And Novice" columns weren't aimed at teenagers or any other age group. And that may be a big part of what made them so attractive to kids! Let us assume that a company makes a video game. It's pretty popular and sells a lot. They would like to sell more. Should they make their next game really easy? Of course not. Will millions more teenagers buy the game because they can beat the game the first time they play it? If anything, that will cause the game to be unpopular because it presents no challenge and requires no skill. Do they want to make it so hard that it is impossible to beat? Probably not. BTW, the answer is no on both counts. People who would play video games do not buy games that are too easy to beat. Nor too hard. Comparisons to the ease or difficulty of the ARS licensing process are invited. Some points: 1) Amateur radio is not a video game. It's much more complex than that. 2) Anybody can buy a video game - all you need is cash. And if you're satisfied to play older games, they can often be had for very little money, or even free. The need for skill comes only when you go to play the game. 3) The tests for an amateur radio license in the USA have varied in the degree and types of knowledge required. (Skills are a type of knowledge). But they have never required a very high level of knowledge to pass. And the licenses have been earned by people of all ages and all walks of life. 4) Reducing the license test requirements has not brought sustained growth to US amateur radio. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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#89
June 6th 05, 03:48 AM
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John Smith wrote:
Mike: That would really be funny--if it wasn't so pathetic... How about a few calculus questions on the test, how about having to write short story with grammar, spelling and punctuation correct. How about having to give a description of the physics of the electron-hole theory, argument at to why the theory should be considered valid, and an opposing argument on why it should be considered flawed. How about demonstrating how the quadratic formula relates to thermal physics, electrical physics--some examples of its' uses in both... Gesus, the ham exams are for dummies... get real... When the hams talk about how difficult the test EVER was it is a joke, the damn test can be passed by any second year college student after a day of study... you guys end up describing the size of your own mind when you do this--and still after all these years you have not figured it out--people laugh--haven't you seen them laughing before, surely you caught one or two out of the corner of your eye? Wake up... the only reason people don't rub your nose in your own dog poop is they are not like you--they have been raised differently--they try to be nice no matter what... but there is an end to tolerance of bad behavior... Go back, re-read my post, and then tell me just what I wrote. Then let me know if I wrote anything along the lines of what you just tried to slippery-slope my post into. Some things to point out are the parts where I am suggesting making the tests quite difficult. My tolerance has not been exceeded. You may wish to continue the canine excrement comments at will. - Mike KB3EIA - John "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... wrote: Look at the old ham mags and other publications (ARRL and non-ARRL, doesn't matter as long as it was a ham- oriented publication) of the so-called golden years of, say, the '50s. Back when we had annual growth of about 8% year after year. They *weren't* specifically aimed at "young'uns". The license requirements *weren't* reduced (as NCVEC and others want to do) to make the tests easier for kids to pass. The "Beginner And Novice" columns weren't aimed at teenagers or any other age group. And that may be a big part of what made them so attractive to kids! Let us assume that a company makes a video game. It's pretty popular and sells a lot. They would like to sell more. Should they make their next game really easy? Will millions more teenagers buy the game because they can beat the game the first time they play it? Do they want to make it so hard that it is impossible to beat? BTW, the answer is no on both counts. People who would play video games do not buy games that are too easy to beat. Nor too hard. Comparisons to the ease or difficulty of the ARS licensing process are invited. - Mike KB3EIA - |
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#90
June 6th 05, 03:51 AM
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bb wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote: wrote: Look at the old ham mags and other publications (ARRL and non-ARRL, doesn't matter as long as it was a ham- oriented publication) of the so-called golden years of, say, the '50s. Back when we had annual growth of about 8% year after year. They *weren't* specifically aimed at "young'uns". The license requirements *weren't* reduced (as NCVEC and others want to do) to make the tests easier for kids to pass. The "Beginner And Novice" columns weren't aimed at teenagers or any other age group. And that may be a big part of what made them so attractive to kids! Let us assume that a company makes a video game. It's pretty popular and sells a lot. They would like to sell more. Should they make their next game really easy? Will millions more teenagers buy the game because they can beat the game the first time they play it? Do they want to make it so hard that it is impossible to beat? BTW, the answer is no on both counts. People who would play video games do not buy games that are too easy to beat. Nor too hard. Comparisons to the ease or difficulty of the ARS licensing process are invited. - Mike KB3EIA - Now if they were to make a game that you weren't allowed to play until you could beat it, your analogy would be closer to amateur reality. Beating the game would be a little like passing the test. I thought I was arguing for a middle of the road difficulty test. "John Smith" seems to think otherwise. - Mike KB3EIA - |
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