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June 1st 05, 06:16 PM

wrote:
From: on Tues 31 May 2005 15:55

Have you ever been a teacher of young people, Len?

An invited speaker at a couple of local "magnet" schools,
Jimmie. Went over rather well. You see, I've had some
experience speaking before groups and can "gauge" an
audience's attention while speaking. That comes from
practice. "Young people" (teen-agers to everyone else)
is just another group having different likes/dislikes
than adults.

You just couldn't bring yourself to answer the question, could you
Leonard? Jim didn't ask if you'd been a public speaker.

You don't seem to be able to do any teaching here, though, Len.

Tsk, tsk. Some groups remain UNABLE to learn, heads of
incredible density bone, anchored in their brainwashed
BELIEFS. NOBODY human can get through to them... :-)

....and some people are simply unable to become good teachers. They
simply have no knack for it. You seem to fall into that category.
Alienating the students doesn't make for an attentive class.

So? You've never been a radio amateur, either.

It's very difficult for me to step down to what YOU call
"amateur radio." Been too long in grown-up commercial
radio and electronics.

There's part of your problem, Len. The condescension isn't going to win
you many points. Many of us here have been professionally involved in
radio and electronics *and* we're also hams. You're a stuffed shirt and
a non-ham.

Tsk, tsk. A radio does NOT operate by different laws of
physics because some government agency designates it as
"amateur." Didn't you learn that in Ivy school?

You might have a point if all there was to amateur radio was sitting
around discussing radio theory.

And they don't require any license by the user. They're almost
totally automatic in operation, too. Is that what
you think amateur radio should be?

My argument in here is simply to eliminate the morse code test
for a radio license. I have NO desire to "tell you what to do,"
and such a thing you would never obey anyway...NO ONE can tell
Jimmie what to do! :-)

1. You want to eliminate morse testing in an endeavor in which you are
not a participant.

2. You don't want to tell anyone what to do.

Those two things look to be mutually exclusive.

I'm not the one bringing up my 6-year-old comment on amateur
radio minimum age. YOU are. You've done that several times,
twice now after I've said I had not pursued the matter since
1999.

Neither have you disavowed your comment. You've not followed up to the
FCC with an "I was wrong about a minimum age for entry into amateur
radio". Not pursuing something further isn't the same as reversing your
views.

The paradigms of yesterday just DON'T apply today.

Some of them do. Or do you insist on a continuous techno-cultural
revolution?

I'm immediately suspicious of anyone who ever uses the term "paradigm".

NOBODY is considering "TXT-ing" as any sort of replacement for
modern data modes for written communications. That "test" on
an Entertainment show was deliberately staged to poke fun at
this relatively recent FAD of "TXT-ing." People in the Staff
of the Tonight Show on NBC at Burbank, CA, have informed me of
the intent of that short bit.

I'm sure the Tonight Show staff check in with you from time to time,
just to make certain that they've got their ducks in a row.

Drop the discussion, Jimmie. You haven't "won" any sort of
argument...rather you've helped FABRICATE a non-issue.

Actually, Leonard, I think Jim has gotten your goat on the issue.

And it's rather surreal to see you lecturing and posturing on
"young'uns in Ham Radio" when it was *you* who suggested to FCC that
*no-one* below the age of 14
years be allowed to obtain *any* class of amateur radio license.

Jimmie boy, STOP bringing up that six-year-old argument which
(I perceive) you tried to use as some kind of "character flaw."
Hans Brakob floated the first argument on that in here, we
argued on it, but YOU have to keep bringing it up, bringing it
up, bringing it up. It's like you have intellectual bullemia.
If you must vomit so much please do it someplace else.

Izzat one of your "Go away" lines, Leonard? I'm sure you'd like folks
to stop bringing up things you've written which appear to have been
boneheaded moves.

YOU are NOT going to "win" OLD arguments that you didn't "win"
some time ago. Quit acting the age of that old Comment of mine
on FCC 98-143. Two little tykes of 6 years got their amateur
radio licenses (Novice and Technician) plus got their pictures
taken with a kindly, grandfatherly-looking VE who "administered"
their tests. It was on the ARRL web page news some time ago.
LET IT GO.

You intimated at the time that they must have cheated in order to obtain
their licenses. You stated that you didn't believe that "CHILDREN"
should be permitted to operate amateur radio stations without
supervision. You commented to the FCC that their should be a minimum
entry age for amateur radio even though 1) there is no record of a
problem with adolescent licensees and 2) you have nothing whatever to do
with amateur radio.

Dave K8MN

June 2nd 05, 12:57 AM

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
From: on Tues 31 May 2005 15:55

Drop the discussion, Jimmie. You haven't "won" any sort of
argument...rather you've helped FABRICATE a non-issue.

Actually, Leonard, I think Jim has gotten your goat on the
issue.

Actually, Dave, I'm not trying to get anyone's goat. The subject is
about "young'uns in ham radio", and it's obvious that things
like parenting, teaching, and age limits for a license are right
on-subject.

And it's rather surreal to see you lecturing and posturing on
"young'uns in Ham Radio" when it was *you* who suggested to
FCC that *no-one* below the age of 14
years be allowed to obtain *any* class of amateur radio
license.

The USA has never had such an age limit. Some other countries,
like Canada, had them at one time but got rid of them.

Jimmie boy, STOP bringing up that six-year-old
argument which
(I perceive) you tried to use as some kind of "character
flaw."
Hans Brakob floated the first argument on that in here, we
argued on it, but YOU have to keep bringing it up,
bringing it
up, bringing it up. It's like you have intellectual
bullemia.
If you must vomit so much please do it someplace else.

Izzat one of your "Go away" lines, Leonard?

It's a "shut up" line, Dave. Not as obvious as the classic
"feldwebel post", but that's what it means nonetheless.

I'm sure you'd like folks
to stop bringing up things you've written which appear to
have been boneheaded moves.

YOU are NOT going to "win" OLD arguments that you
didn't "win"
some time ago. Quit acting the age of that old
Comment of mine
on FCC 98-143. Two little tykes of 6 years got
their amateur
radio licenses (Novice and Technician) plus got
their pictures
taken with a kindly, grandfatherly-looking VE
who "administered"
their tests. It was on the ARRL web page news
some time ago.
LET IT GO.

You intimated at the time that they must have cheated
in order to obtain their licenses.

IIRC, Dave, the claim was that the children could not
have obtained their licenses honestly - that they
must have gotten some "help" from the VEs. Len
claimed "very mild fraud" in the whole process.

Of course Len wasn't there, doesn't know the people
involved, and bases his opinion on what some teacher
told him about the reading skills of a six-year-old.
That the children might have passed the tests honestly
was dismissed by Len.

btw, a six-year-old earned her General a year or so ago.

How the example of the six-year-olds translates into an
age limit of 14 has never been explained.

The fact is that if someone gets enough right answers on
the written test, they get the credit.

You stated that you didn't believe that "CHILDREN"
should be permitted to operate amateur radio stations without
supervision.

That would include folks like me as a Novice. With my homebrew
transmitter.

Why would Len want to keep young folks out of ham radio?

Here's one possibility:

Back in 1996, ARRL had Readex conduct a survey of 1500 amateurs.
One results display showed the support for code testing in
relation to the age of the amateur responding to the survey.

The group that showed the most positive support for code testing
(85%!) was the *youngest* age group.

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