Let me see if I have all of your "facts" straight:

1) there is no problem
2) old farts are cutting edge techs
3) one look will tell you how "progressive" amateur radio is
4) everything just looks wrong, it is really right
5) code is important
6) ARRL is wrong
7) Haynie is wrong
8) FCC is wrong

.... yeah, right!

John
"Dave Heil" wrote in message
ink.net...
wrote:

The mighty macho morsemen cannot conceive of that. They are
immortal. They RULE. [they've said as much...]

Er...actually, you've said as much.

However, "energy and enthusiasm" is a function of both individual
genes and mental outlook. "Enthusiasm" in half-century-old state-
of-the-art techiques and practices should be consigned to niche
nostalgia places, not kept as federal regulations.

Most hams I've encountered aren't locked to old technology. They're
using the latest equipment available to them. They are not, however,
obliged to discard any technology simply because it isn't the newest
and latest.

Many of the stratification crowd seem to hang onto their
"enthusiasm" of their young days as if it were a lifeline to
some imagined fountain of youth promising that they will
remain younger than springtime by holding to old paradigms.

You haven't yet explained what constitutes "the stratification crowd".
Most hams I've encountered are enthusiastic about amateur radio. They
enjoy it immensely. I don't expect you to understand.

[Rodgers and Hammerstein could do a great musical opera on
that if Rodgers wasn't a silent (piano) key and Oscar wasn't
a silent pen...but it wouldn't play in Newington] [well,
maybe a version of "Carousel" since these olde-fahrts keep
going around and around and around...]

You seem to be the oldest fart here. Are you going around and around?

My own viewpoint is different.

I'll say.

By virtue of being born when
I was, my lifetime has seen the comming of the solid-state
era and the definite decay of vacuum tube technology...

What makes that special? Many of us are in the same boat, old timer.

...that
bringing a virtual explosion of different applications, new
and exciting SOCs (Systems On a Chip)...plus a whole new set
of passive and semi-active components and ways to hold them all
together. Technology-wise that is truly WONDERFUL and
MARVELOUS.

A very Andersonesque, masterful statement of the obvious...

We all have the capability of high-speed data and
imagery communications internationally, 24/7...

No, we don't all have that.

...no worries about
the condition of the ionosphere...

...unless we're trying to use HF radio.

all for less than $2000 in
today's dollars to get a "mainframe" computer on a desk and
a year's subscription to an ISP.

Really? You have a "mainframe" computer on your desk?
The only thing close to a "mainframe" computer that I've used is the
Wang VS and it was a "mini". I'd have had to have had a pretty big
desk for it.

Buy-sell-trade, do personal
banking, keep family in touch at all times etc., etc., etc.
My personal enthusiasm on the technology just grows and grows
from keeping in touch with the new developments and seeing
the products (some delivered to my door after electronic
ordering). I'm not going to see the end of even if the
mortal world sees my end. That's the way of humans being.

Yep, long bows, crossbows, gunpowder--there's simply no end to it.

Others, the stratification crowd, the staunch defenders of the
status quo, demand a HALT to progress, NO CHANGE.

That would seem to be a pretty large fib on your part.

Keep all
nice and tidy and belonging just the way it was when they were
young. Psychological reassurances of their "safety." Denial
of the fact that they ARE getting on. Denial of the fact that
other, younger people MIGHT be interested in doing this ham
radio hobby thing. Oh, some of them whip up some adrenaline
and do lip-service to old, trite phrases of "helping youngsters"
and all that but the MUST keep THEIR playground in their order.
NO changes allowed.


Most don't help, don't bother to learn how to help.

Then again, you'd have absolutely no way of knowing it that is the
case.

Why would a young person of today WANT to study morse code just
to communicate on HF?

Uhhhh....to communicate with others who are using the mode or to learn
something different than his peers or maybe, just because it is a
qualification for obtaining an HF amateur radio license.

Other than being in a "ham family?"

Other than being in a ham family, what?

The
Internet opened to the public 14 years ago and most of the world
is connected to the net.

No, most of the world is assuredly not connect to the internet.

A shrink wrap CB transceiver is available
over the counter for less than $100, complete with antenna and
microphone. A pair of FRS hand-helds costs only $50 maximum and
permits 5 mile two-way talking with isolation via digital mode.

What's your point, Leonard? Do you own stock in Cobra?

A cell phone with a built-in camera costs less than $100 and can
communicate anywhere within range of a cell site...to the rest
of the telephonic world.

Neat. Even if I don't have one, I have a telephone. With it, I can
also communicate to the rest of the "telephonic world".

One in five Americans have cell phone
subscriptions.

One in five American hams belong to the ARRL.

Need to send documents across country fast? Go
to chain drugstores and use their FAX machines.

Why would I need to do that? I'd just use my desktop "mainframe"
computer and FAX with it.

All sorts of
quick communications possibilities for all today.

Yeah?

COMPETITION OF INTEREST.

COMPETITION OF INTEREST, what?

Competition of quality and dependability.

What about them?

And all
that hasn't touched on the OTHER advantages the younger folk have
today, things that are entertaining, interesting, mind-holding.

Yeah--hip hop, computer porn, drugs, piercing body parts and video
gaming come to mind.



In truth, some young folks LIKE certain old things.

Then somewhere, there is a young person who must like you.


Today's ham can purchase a top-of-the-line HF transceiver, fancy
antenna and tower, peripheral gizmos up the gazoo, all for less
than $5000.

Where can I get all of that stuff for less than five grand, Leonard?

They get rock-solid frequency stability and read-out
of same down to 10 Hz increments...Digital Signal Processing,
"VFO 'split'" with frequency memories, sharp crystal filters to
reduce QRM and QRN to a minimum...even operate it through a PC!
None of that was available in a single package a half century ago.

None of that was available a quarter-century ago.

But, the olde-fahrts can sit back and dictate all MUST test for
the 161-year-old "technology" skill of morse code on that HF.

Some of 'em are still using human speech to communicate. That dates
back thousands and thousands of years.

Incredible dichotomy. Incredible hypocrisy.

Those don't seem to qualify as sentences.

Actuarial tables will manifest themselves. The mighty macho
morsemen WILL have their morse keys pried out of their cold,
dead fingers.

But actuarial tables being what they are, they'd indicate that this
will be one of those things you aren't likely to be around to see. In
fact, you'll likely miss out on amateur radio altogether.

Dave K8MN

From: "John Smith" on Wed 8 Jun 2005 18:03

Let me see if I have all of your "facts" straight:

1) there is no problem
2) old farts are cutting edge techs
3) one look will tell you how "progressive" amateur radio is
4) everything just looks wrong, it is really right
5) code is important
6) ARRL is wrong
7) Haynie is wrong
8) FCC is wrong

... yeah, right!

John
"Dave Heil" wrote in message
link.net...

John, you forgot one:

9) Leonard is always wrong :-)

wrote:
From: "John Smith" on Wed 8 Jun 2005 18:03


Let me see if I have all of your "facts" straight:

1) there is no problem
2) old farts are cutting edge techs
3) one look will tell you how "progressive" amateur radio is
4) everything just looks wrong, it is really right
5) code is important
6) ARRL is wrong
7) Haynie is wrong
8) FCC is wrong

... yeah, right!

John
"Dave Heil" wrote in message
hlink.net...


John, you forgot one:

9) Leonard is always wrong :-)

Try to be specific and accurate: Leonard H. Anderson is usually wrong. :-)

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:

John, you forgot one:

9) Leonard is always wrong :-)

Try to be specific and accurate: Leonard H. Anderson is usually wrong. :-)

Dave K8MN

To be specific and accurate: David Heil works out of band Frenchmen on
6 meters. :-)

John Smith wrote:
Let me see if I have all of your "facts" straight:

1) there is no problem
2) old farts are cutting edge techs
3) one look will tell you how "progressive" amateur radio is
4) everything just looks wrong, it is really right
5) code is important
6) ARRL is wrong
7) Haynie is wrong
8) FCC is wrong

... yeah, right!

John

Well, "John", let's take 'em in reverse order in honor of your top
posting style:

8. The FCC has been wrong on numerous occasions.

7. Jim Haynie has been wrong more times than the FCC.

6. The ARRL varies between getting it right and getting it wrong.

5. Morse code is important to me.

4. Everything may look wrong to you and Len Anderson; that doesn't mean
that it is.

3. I wrote nothing about "one look".

2. When you use the "old farts" term, I peg you as just another
twenty-year-old with fifty years of experience.

1. I don't see any huge problems for amateur radio.

Now to a guy like Leonard Anderson, a guy who claims several decades of
interest in amateur radio but who has never taken the first step toward
actually obtaining an amateur ticket, I'm sure that amateur radio is in
an awful pickle.

I'm still reserving judgement on your motivations.

Dave K8MN



"Dave Heil" wrote in message
ink.net...

wrote:


The mighty macho morsemen cannot conceive of that. They are
immortal. They RULE. [they've said as much...]

Er...actually, you've said as much.


However, "energy and enthusiasm" is a function of both individual
genes and mental outlook. "Enthusiasm" in half-century-old state-
of-the-art techiques and practices should be consigned to niche
nostalgia places, not kept as federal regulations.

Most hams I've encountered aren't locked to old technology. They're
using the latest equipment available to them. They are not, however,
obliged to discard any technology simply because it isn't the newest
and latest.


Many of the stratification crowd seem to hang onto their
"enthusiasm" of their young days as if it were a lifeline to
some imagined fountain of youth promising that they will
remain younger than springtime by holding to old paradigms.

You haven't yet explained what constitutes "the stratification crowd".
Most hams I've encountered are enthusiastic about amateur radio. They
enjoy it immensely. I don't expect you to understand.


[Rodgers and Hammerstein could do a great musical opera on
that if Rodgers wasn't a silent (piano) key and Oscar wasn't
a silent pen...but it wouldn't play in Newington] [well,
maybe a version of "Carousel" since these olde-fahrts keep
going around and around and around...]

You seem to be the oldest fart here. Are you going around and around?


My own viewpoint is different.

I'll say.


By virtue of being born when
I was, my lifetime has seen the comming of the solid-state
era and the definite decay of vacuum tube technology...

What makes that special? Many of us are in the same boat, old timer.


...that
bringing a virtual explosion of different applications, new
and exciting SOCs (Systems On a Chip)...plus a whole new set
of passive and semi-active components and ways to hold them all
together. Technology-wise that is truly WONDERFUL and
MARVELOUS.

A very Andersonesque, masterful statement of the obvious...


We all have the capability of high-speed data and
imagery communications internationally, 24/7...

No, we don't all have that.


...no worries about
the condition of the ionosphere...

...unless we're trying to use HF radio.


all for less than $2000 in
today's dollars to get a "mainframe" computer on a desk and
a year's subscription to an ISP.

Really? You have a "mainframe" computer on your desk?
The only thing close to a "mainframe" computer that I've used is the
Wang VS and it was a "mini". I'd have had to have had a pretty big
desk for it.


Buy-sell-trade, do personal
banking, keep family in touch at all times etc., etc., etc.
My personal enthusiasm on the technology just grows and grows
from keeping in touch with the new developments and seeing
the products (some delivered to my door after electronic
ordering). I'm not going to see the end of even if the
mortal world sees my end. That's the way of humans being.

Yep, long bows, crossbows, gunpowder--there's simply no end to it.


Others, the stratification crowd, the staunch defenders of the
status quo, demand a HALT to progress, NO CHANGE.

That would seem to be a pretty large fib on your part.


Keep all
nice and tidy and belonging just the way it was when they were
young. Psychological reassurances of their "safety." Denial
of the fact that they ARE getting on. Denial of the fact that
other, younger people MIGHT be interested in doing this ham
radio hobby thing. Oh, some of them whip up some adrenaline
and do lip-service to old, trite phrases of "helping youngsters"
and all that but the MUST keep THEIR playground in their order.
NO changes allowed.


Most don't help, don't bother to learn how to help.

Then again, you'd have absolutely no way of knowing it that is the
case.


Why would a young person of today WANT to study morse code just
to communicate on HF?

Uhhhh....to communicate with others who are using the mode or to learn
something different than his peers or maybe, just because it is a
qualification for obtaining an HF amateur radio license.


Other than being in a "ham family?"

Other than being in a ham family, what?


The
Internet opened to the public 14 years ago and most of the world
is connected to the net.

No, most of the world is assuredly not connect to the internet.


A shrink wrap CB transceiver is available
over the counter for less than $100, complete with antenna and
microphone. A pair of FRS hand-helds costs only $50 maximum and
permits 5 mile two-way talking with isolation via digital mode.

What's your point, Leonard? Do you own stock in Cobra?


A cell phone with a built-in camera costs less than $100 and can
communicate anywhere within range of a cell site...to the rest
of the telephonic world.

Neat. Even if I don't have one, I have a telephone. With it, I can
also communicate to the rest of the "telephonic world".


One in five Americans have cell phone
subscriptions.

One in five American hams belong to the ARRL.

Need to send documents across country fast? Go

to chain drugstores and use their FAX machines.

Why would I need to do that? I'd just use my desktop "mainframe"
computer and FAX with it.


All sorts of
quick communications possibilities for all today.

Yeah?


COMPETITION OF INTEREST.

COMPETITION OF INTEREST, what?

Competition of quality and dependability.

What about them?


And all
that hasn't touched on the OTHER advantages the younger folk have
today, things that are entertaining, interesting, mind-holding.

Yeah--hip hop, computer porn, drugs, piercing body parts and video
gaming come to mind.




In truth, some young folks LIKE certain old things.

Then somewhere, there is a young person who must like you.



Today's ham can purchase a top-of-the-line HF transceiver, fancy
antenna and tower, peripheral gizmos up the gazoo, all for less
than $5000.

Where can I get all of that stuff for less than five grand, Leonard?


They get rock-solid frequency stability and read-out
of same down to 10 Hz increments...Digital Signal Processing,
"VFO 'split'" with frequency memories, sharp crystal filters to
reduce QRM and QRN to a minimum...even operate it through a PC!
None of that was available in a single package a half century ago.

None of that was available a quarter-century ago.


But, the olde-fahrts can sit back and dictate all MUST test for
the 161-year-old "technology" skill of morse code on that HF.

Some of 'em are still using human speech to communicate. That dates
back thousands and thousands of years.


Incredible dichotomy. Incredible hypocrisy.

Those don't seem to qualify as sentences.


Actuarial tables will manifest themselves. The mighty macho
morsemen WILL have their morse keys pried out of their cold,
dead fingers.

But actuarial tables being what they are, they'd indicate that this
will be one of those things you aren't likely to be around to see. In
fact, you'll likely miss out on amateur radio altogether.

Dave K8MN