"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...

"KC8GXW" wrote in message
...


Jim Hampton wrote:
Hello, Dan

A 1X2 call starting with "W" or "K"? How many of these folks do you
think
are around that are *not* in possession of a vanity call? C'mon! Give
us a
break! The original holders of 1X2 calls are mostly, if not entirely,
sk.
A dear friend of mine, W2ZS (almost the end of the 1X2 calls) has been
sk
for decades. Like about 3 decades.

My original call, issued in 1962, was WN2CJV. That would have made me
WB2CJV had I passed the 13 word per minute code test. Unfortunately,
it
took me another year to get to 13 and I obtained WB2OSP in 1964.

With the issuance of vanity call signs, most of the 1X3 calls are
gone -
mostly vanity call signs. Depending upon the call district, some of
the
states were as far as a WD prefix.

Since I doubt many folks would spend money to get a call sign beginning
with
WA, WB, etc., those are the folks that you can be certain have been
licensed
since the early 60s. I did obtain WA3RJX in 1970, however, when I
moved
to
Pennsylvania. Still, had I kept that call, it would be 35 years old!
Moving back then might also require a call sign change - along with a
"newbie" type call sign.

When the FCC allowed extra class licensees to choose their own call
sign
in
the early 70s, I obtained N2JH. At that point, I'm not sure if they
would
allow you to grab an old expired call.

Once the gates were opened for vanity call signs, all bets are off as
to
how
long an amateur has been licensed. My bet would be that the WA and WB
type
prefixes would be the only ones that would *almost* guarantee the
individual
has been licensed long enough to qualify for the quarter century club.
It
won't be long (and may have already happened) that there are some 5
word
per
minute folks with a 1X2 call (which means fairly new hams).

I know a few with N8*** that are/were 5 wpm and were licensed in 1983 or
earlier, I don't think that would make them fairly new hams. A few more
years and they will qualify for the quarter century club.

I have to ask what the heck you were thinking with your response that a
1X2
or 1X3 call indicates an old timer?

???



73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA



This is true; I had the call N2JH back in the 70s. The N prefix was made
available to amateurs sometime in the late 60s, but I'm not sure exactly
when. My point, however, is that a WA or WB prefix pretty well indicates
someone who has been licensed for 40 years or so (depending upon
district).
My WB2OSP license was issued in 1964, so figure the WA2 calls were a few
years earlier (WB2CJV would have been in May, 1962).

My point was that no one, I suspect, would apply for a WA or WB prefix
under
the vanity callsign rules. This would, to me, certify that individual as
an
old-timer. As to the 1X3 calls with a prefix of "W" or "K", my point is
that most of them have probably been issued as a vanity call after the FCC
started that sometime in the 1990s.

I knew Dwight Hill, K2BRE and he has been an sk for quite a while. Were
he
still alive, he would be close to 90 years old. Certainly, there are some
still around with us with a 1X3 issued back in the 50s or earlier (Wayne,
W2NSD comes to mind), but I suspect *most* current 1X3 or 1X2 holders are
holders due to having a vanity call.


They did not run out of sequentially issued 1x3 calls until sometime in 1993
(varying slightly by call area). Sequentially issued 1x2 calls were still
available in come call areas into the early 1990s. The 1x2s really went
fast in late 1980s and the very early 1990s. I knew a great many hams who
had finally chosen to upgrade to Extra so that they could contribute to
amateur radio by becoming VEs and got their 1x2s. Although you didn't have
to be an Extra to be a VE, you were limited on who you could administer
tests to if you were not.

I received my call (N8UZE) in 1992 and my daughter received her call (N8ZNW)
in 1993.

Dan's point of a 1X3 being an indicator of an old timer does not hold
water.

Definitely not. Many holders of 1x3 calls got their licenses in the 1990s
and many new licenses today are getting 1x3 calls through the vanity system
since there are none available for sequential issue. However if one looks
only at the sequentially issued calls, the Ws are older than the Ks which in
turn are older than the Ns.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...

"KC8GXW" wrote in message
...


Jim Hampton wrote:
Hello, Dan

A 1X2 call starting with "W" or "K"? How many of these folks do you
think
are around that are *not* in possession of a vanity call? C'mon!
Give
us a
break! The original holders of 1X2 calls are mostly, if not
entirely,
sk.
A dear friend of mine, W2ZS (almost the end of the 1X2 calls) has
been
sk
for decades. Like about 3 decades.

My original call, issued in 1962, was WN2CJV. That would have made
me
WB2CJV had I passed the 13 word per minute code test. Unfortunately,
it
took me another year to get to 13 and I obtained WB2OSP in 1964.

With the issuance of vanity call signs, most of the 1X3 calls are
gone -
mostly vanity call signs. Depending upon the call district, some of
the
states were as far as a WD prefix.

Since I doubt many folks would spend money to get a call sign
beginning
with
WA, WB, etc., those are the folks that you can be certain have been
licensed
since the early 60s. I did obtain WA3RJX in 1970, however, when I
moved
to
Pennsylvania. Still, had I kept that call, it would be 35 years old!
Moving back then might also require a call sign change - along with a
"newbie" type call sign.

When the FCC allowed extra class licensees to choose their own call
sign
in
the early 70s, I obtained N2JH. At that point, I'm not sure if they
would
allow you to grab an old expired call.

Once the gates were opened for vanity call signs, all bets are off as
to
how
long an amateur has been licensed. My bet would be that the WA and
WB
type
prefixes would be the only ones that would *almost* guarantee the
individual
has been licensed long enough to qualify for the quarter century
club.
It
won't be long (and may have already happened) that there are some 5
word
per
minute folks with a 1X2 call (which means fairly new hams).

I know a few with N8*** that are/were 5 wpm and were licensed in 1983
or
earlier, I don't think that would make them fairly new hams. A few more
years and they will qualify for the quarter century club.

I have to ask what the heck you were thinking with your response that
a
1X2
or 1X3 call indicates an old timer?

???



73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA



This is true; I had the call N2JH back in the 70s. The N prefix was
made
available to amateurs sometime in the late 60s, but I'm not sure exactly
when. My point, however, is that a WA or WB prefix pretty well
indicates
someone who has been licensed for 40 years or so (depending upon
district).
My WB2OSP license was issued in 1964, so figure the WA2 calls were a few
years earlier (WB2CJV would have been in May, 1962).

My point was that no one, I suspect, would apply for a WA or WB prefix
under
the vanity callsign rules. This would, to me, certify that individual
as
an
old-timer. As to the 1X3 calls with a prefix of "W" or "K", my point is
that most of them have probably been issued as a vanity call after the
FCC
started that sometime in the 1990s.

I knew Dwight Hill, K2BRE and he has been an sk for quite a while. Were
he
still alive, he would be close to 90 years old. Certainly, there are
some
still around with us with a 1X3 issued back in the 50s or earlier
(Wayne,
W2NSD comes to mind), but I suspect *most* current 1X3 or 1X2 holders
are
holders due to having a vanity call.


They did not run out of sequentially issued 1x3 calls until sometime in
1993
(varying slightly by call area). Sequentially issued 1x2 calls were still
available in come call areas into the early 1990s. The 1x2s really went
fast in late 1980s and the very early 1990s. I knew a great many hams who
had finally chosen to upgrade to Extra so that they could contribute to
amateur radio by becoming VEs and got their 1x2s. Although you didn't
have
to be an Extra to be a VE, you were limited on who you could administer
tests to if you were not.

I received my call (N8UZE) in 1992 and my daughter received her call
(N8ZNW)
in 1993.

Dan's point of a 1X3 being an indicator of an old timer does not hold
water.

Definitely not. Many holders of 1x3 calls got their licenses in the 1990s
and many new licenses today are getting 1x3 calls through the vanity
system
since there are none available for sequential issue. However if one looks
only at the sequentially issued calls, the Ws are older than the Ks which
in
turn are older than the Ns.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


Hello, Dee

I am pretty sure you are correct. I also believe that WV2 was the novice
prefix which would turn into WA2 when the tech or general was obtained (no
quick routes to the extra back then; you had to have some time with a
license before you could even take the test). WN2 turned into WB2. Not
sure about the K prefix. The novice goes back into the 50s, I believe.

You are right, when the Ws were exhausted, they ran through the Ks. Then
they started with WA and so on. The N prefix became available in the very
late 60s or very early 70s. WA and WB predate the N prefix.

Still haven't heard from Dan. Perhaps we could sked for a nice chat - as
long as he can put up with a "newbie". Better keep it slow, say 30 words
per minute cw with no automated copy devices. I suppose if he pushes me, I
might consider 40. Not much more, however; I'm not up to that stuff
anymore. Of course, if push came to shove .... I might be willing to give
the high-speed stuff a crack, but don't expect much from a former WN prefix.

If he *really* wants to push the envelope, I'd be willing to take a week and
meet him using American Land-Line Morse. Should be good for a hoot. No
more than 16, however, as I'd be using a mental look-up table. Not enough
call for land-line Morse to make it worthwhile to get good at it. I only
used it once in 1968. Of course, I hadn't copied Morse since 1969 when I
retook the extra in 1993 .... at 20 words per minute ....



73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA, newbie extrodinaire
ps - the new guys and gals deserve respect too. I guess I just didn't care
for his implication on the prefix.

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...


You are right, when the Ws were exhausted, they ran through the Ks. Then
they started with WA and so on. The N prefix became available in the very
late 60s or very early 70s. WA and WB predate the N prefix.

I don't know about all area's but I can say this, for the 8th
district...circa summer of 1961 they did indeed re-issue K calls. I
received KN8BHH, my friend received KN8BBL, another friend received KN8DEN,
etc. however just a month or so later another group of buds received WN8
which turned into WA8 calls. Go figure.


Still haven't heard from Dan. Perhaps we could sked for a nice chat - as
long as he can put up with a "newbie". Better keep it slow, say 30 words
per minute cw with no automated copy devices. I suppose if he pushes me,
I
might consider 40. Not much more, however; I'm not up to that stuff
anymore. Of course, if push came to shove .... I might be willing to give
the high-speed stuff a crack, but don't expect much from a former WN
prefix.

If he *really* wants to push the envelope, I'd be willing to take a week
and
meet him using American Land-Line Morse. Should be good for a hoot. No
more than 16, however, as I'd be using a mental look-up table. Not enough
call for land-line Morse to make it worthwhile to get good at it. I only
used it once in 1968. Of course, I hadn't copied Morse since 1969 when I
retook the extra in 1993 .... at 20 words per minute ....


Haven't heard from me? This is the first time I saw this. Sure I'll sked
ya. I'm on 3.575 every evening at 1900CST, that would be 2000Z. On
Sundays I am net control (local time).

I have not used the railroad code in 40 years, so I'll pass on that one.

The only thing that is automatic in my cw is my ability to copy. Should
still do well at 50 or so. If not we qrs.

Send me a e-mail and follow my SPAM catchers instructions. I don't give a
rip who believe me here.

Dan/W4NTI

Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...


You are right, when the Ws were exhausted, they ran through the Ks. Then
they started with WA and so on. The N prefix became available in the very
late 60s or very early 70s. WA and WB predate the N prefix.


I don't know about all area's but I can say this, for the 8th
district...circa summer of 1961 they did indeed re-issue K calls.

Same in 5 land, my K call was a re-issue.

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...


You are right, when the Ws were exhausted, they ran through the Ks.
Then
they started with WA and so on. The N prefix became available in the
very
late 60s or very early 70s. WA and WB predate the N prefix.

I don't know about all area's but I can say this, for the 8th
district...circa summer of 1961 they did indeed re-issue K calls. I
received KN8BHH, my friend received KN8BBL, another friend received
KN8DEN,
etc. however just a month or so later another group of buds received WN8
which turned into WA8 calls. Go figure.


Still haven't heard from Dan. Perhaps we could sked for a nice chat -
as
long as he can put up with a "newbie". Better keep it slow, say 30
words
per minute cw with no automated copy devices. I suppose if he pushes
me,
I
might consider 40. Not much more, however; I'm not up to that stuff
anymore. Of course, if push came to shove .... I might be willing to
give
the high-speed stuff a crack, but don't expect much from a former WN
prefix.

If he *really* wants to push the envelope, I'd be willing to take a week
and
meet him using American Land-Line Morse. Should be good for a hoot. No
more than 16, however, as I'd be using a mental look-up table. Not
enough
call for land-line Morse to make it worthwhile to get good at it. I
only
used it once in 1968. Of course, I hadn't copied Morse since 1969 when
I
retook the extra in 1993 .... at 20 words per minute ....


Haven't heard from me? This is the first time I saw this. Sure I'll sked
ya. I'm on 3.575 every evening at 1900CST, that would be 2000Z. On
Sundays I am net control (local time).

I have not used the railroad code in 40 years, so I'll pass on that one.

The only thing that is automatic in my cw is my ability to copy. Should
still do well at 50 or so. If not we qrs.

Send me a e-mail and follow my SPAM catchers instructions. I don't give a
rip who believe me here.

Dan/W4NTI




Hello, Dan

Should be fun. I could well loose, who knows? But I'll tell you what, I
hope both of us learn a bit of respect for each other. I honestly don't
know how well I'll do much past 40 as it has been quite a few years - but
I'm willing to give it a try. I will get your addy minus the spam catcher
and explain further.

Hang on to your shorts, it might be a bumpy ride LOL

Seriously, Dan, I hope we can end this one on a friendly note. I get upset
sometimes with some of the threads. I bear no ill will against newcomers
nor old timers. I do hope you read what I stated concerning the 1X3 and 1X2
call signs. I was being honest there.

In any case, I'll be in touch. Wanna bet that we'll hear from Len on this
one? A beer? LOL

BTW, you are right about the KN prefixes. Those became the KX3 calls. At
the time, however, New York was the most populus state and the 2 district
was into the WB2 calls. I've still got my original novice license issued in
1962 as WN2CJV which would have become a WB2 call. I'm willing to try and
take a digital photo of it and send it to you if you wish. There are
differences between districts. And I still abide by my thoughts that the
average WA or WB has been licensed longer than the average 1X2 or 1X3 call
simply because of the FCC and its' vanity call sign program.

All other stuff aside, when did you use land-line? How long have you been
licensed? I am not trying to say I'm a real old-timer; I'm not. I am
simply making the argument that due to the vanity call sign program, a lot,
if not most, of the 1X2 and 1X3 calls are vanity calls. I also was WA3RJX
some 6 years *after* being WB2OSP. It is a matter of the call district. If
you move, you loose (at least back in the days). I was N2JH in the early
70s, given the time to renew one's license, that was some 10 years and more
after the WN2CJV (or even the WB2OSP) ticket.

Heck, maybe after we get a time and frequency (and the 4 call district might
be tough except for 40 meters), perhaps we can get a few others on the
frequency.

I'd almost bet that Hans could wipe us both out ... but we can see ....

Tell ya what, if Lennie comes up on frequency on CW, I'm gonna quit right
then and there!

Let's give it a go.



73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...
[snip]

I am
simply making the argument that due to the vanity call sign program, a
lot,
if not most, of the 1X2 and 1X3 calls are vanity calls.

I disagree. Most of the 1x2 and 1x3 calls seem to be "original issue" not
vanity calls. I know only a handful of people that have gotten vanity calls
and they have had a tough time finding a call that they liked as there just
aren't (and haven't been) that many of the calls available.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

From: "Jim Hampton" on Sun 5 Jun 2005 06:01


"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
thlink.net...

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...


Tell ya what, if Lennie comes up on frequency on CW, I'm gonna quit right
then and there!

Start packing. Pick up last check in Accounting Department.

Fort Monmouth, NJ, a June afternoon in 1952, basic radio skills
for Microwave Radio Relay MOS at the Signal School in a general
purpose school building: Small 6AG7-6L6 MOPA transmitter on
about 7.5 MHz, crystal controlled, CW only with a "straight key."
Measure RF power into "dummy load" (light bulb), then connect
to wire antenna and "load up," see difference in meter readings,
hear keying from instructor's simple five-tube receiver. Hear
instructor cuss out one for "sending nasty words on-air" with
morse key. Sent "CQ" for "keying," nice easy pattern to beat
of characters already memorized before service. Maybe 20 Watts
RF output. Measure frequency with BC-221. Adjust crystal
oscillator for exact frequency and see range of adjustment
possible (not much). Satisfaction on getting very close to
"on frequency." [not on ham band frequency but still legal
for Signal School]

53 years later the boat anchor afficionados are still "peaking
the grid, dipping the plate" on their glow-in-the-dark PAs.
Ho hum. No big change.

Improvement: Modern luggage much, much better. Easy
handling, better packing.

Let's give it a go.

Good luck on your new whatever. :-)

Now-a-days, hookup mosfet 1KW amp with 2-50 Mhz coverage to BIG discone
ant, hookup 2-50 freeband transceiver, adjust L-Match as needed....
GO!!!!

John
wrote in message
oups.com...
From: "Jim Hampton" on Sun 5 Jun 2005 06:01


"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
rthlink.net...

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...


Tell ya what, if Lennie comes up on frequency on CW, I'm gonna quit
right
then and there!

Start packing. Pick up last check in Accounting Department.

Fort Monmouth, NJ, a June afternoon in 1952, basic radio skills
for Microwave Radio Relay MOS at the Signal School in a general
purpose school building: Small 6AG7-6L6 MOPA transmitter on
about 7.5 MHz, crystal controlled, CW only with a "straight key."
Measure RF power into "dummy load" (light bulb), then connect
to wire antenna and "load up," see difference in meter readings,
hear keying from instructor's simple five-tube receiver. Hear
instructor cuss out one for "sending nasty words on-air" with
morse key. Sent "CQ" for "keying," nice easy pattern to beat
of characters already memorized before service. Maybe 20 Watts
RF output. Measure frequency with BC-221. Adjust crystal
oscillator for exact frequency and see range of adjustment
possible (not much). Satisfaction on getting very close to
"on frequency." [not on ham band frequency but still legal
for Signal School]

53 years later the boat anchor afficionados are still "peaking
the grid, dipping the plate" on their glow-in-the-dark PAs.
Ho hum. No big change.

Improvement: Modern luggage much, much better. Easy
handling, better packing.

Let's give it a go.

Good luck on your new whatever. :-)

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...


You are right, when the Ws were exhausted, they ran through the Ks.
Then
they started with WA and so on. The N prefix became available in the
very
late 60s or very early 70s. WA and WB predate the N prefix.

I don't know about all area's but I can say this, for the 8th
district...circa summer of 1961 they did indeed re-issue K calls. I
received KN8BHH, my friend received KN8BBL, another friend received
KN8DEN,
etc. however just a month or so later another group of buds received WN8
which turned into WA8 calls. Go figure.


Still haven't heard from Dan. Perhaps we could sked for a nice chat -
as
long as he can put up with a "newbie". Better keep it slow, say 30
words
per minute cw with no automated copy devices. I suppose if he pushes
me,
I
might consider 40. Not much more, however; I'm not up to that stuff
anymore. Of course, if push came to shove .... I might be willing to
give
the high-speed stuff a crack, but don't expect much from a former WN
prefix.

If he *really* wants to push the envelope, I'd be willing to take a
week
and
meet him using American Land-Line Morse. Should be good for a hoot.
No
more than 16, however, as I'd be using a mental look-up table. Not
enough
call for land-line Morse to make it worthwhile to get good at it. I
only
used it once in 1968. Of course, I hadn't copied Morse since 1969 when
I
retook the extra in 1993 .... at 20 words per minute ....


Haven't heard from me? This is the first time I saw this. Sure I'll
sked
ya. I'm on 3.575 every evening at 1900CST, that would be 2000Z. On
Sundays I am net control (local time).

I have not used the railroad code in 40 years, so I'll pass on that one.

The only thing that is automatic in my cw is my ability to copy. Should
still do well at 50 or so. If not we qrs.

Send me a e-mail and follow my SPAM catchers instructions. I don't give
a
rip who believe me here.

Dan/W4NTI




Hello, Dan

Should be fun. I could well loose, who knows? But I'll tell you what, I
hope both of us learn a bit of respect for each other. I honestly don't
know how well I'll do much past 40 as it has been quite a few years - but
I'm willing to give it a try. I will get your addy minus the spam catcher
and explain further.

Hang on to your shorts, it might be a bumpy ride LOL

Seriously, Dan, I hope we can end this one on a friendly note. I get
upset
sometimes with some of the threads. I bear no ill will against newcomers
nor old timers. I do hope you read what I stated concerning the 1X3 and
1X2
call signs. I was being honest there.


Must have missed that.

In any case, I'll be in touch. Wanna bet that we'll hear from Len on this
one? A beer? LOL

Only if he has a code reader on his computer and sound card interface... hi.

BTW, you are right about the KN prefixes. Those became the KX3 calls. At
the time, however, New York was the most populus state and the 2 district
was into the WB2 calls. I've still got my original novice license issued
in
1962 as WN2CJV which would have become a WB2 call. I'm willing to try and
take a digital photo of it and send it to you if you wish.

No need....I have my very first license in a file. KN8BHH, issued summer of
1961.
In fact this month (June).

There are
differences between districts. And I still abide by my thoughts that the
average WA or WB has been licensed longer than the average 1X2 or 1X3 call
simply because of the FCC and its' vanity call sign program.

Your probably right Jim, now a days having a pre vanity 1X2 or 1X3 means
nothing
because every one assumes you paid for it.


All other stuff aside, when did you use land-line?
Just before I went off to the military in 64. Was just getting into it, and
dropped out for many years. Haven't done it since.

How long have you been
licensed?
As stated above, got my first ticket in summer of 61, got the general 3
months
later. Went off to the military and after traveling around Asia and Europe.
I operated
from Thailand and not quite legally from Vietnam, and of course out of
Europe in
the 70s. I took my Advanced test in mid 70s while stationed at Ft.
McClellan, got
that in Atlanta. Then went back to Germany and took my Extra there at
Ramstein
Air Base. This was when the FCC was sending teams out to do that. Amazing.

I am not trying to say I'm a real old-timer; I'm not. I am
simply making the argument that due to the vanity call sign program, a
lot,
if not most, of the 1X2 and 1X3 calls are vanity calls.

You were licensed 43 years ago. Thats a old timer. Most of those older are
dead. Boy thats a cheery thought.

I agree about the call sign situation. W4XYZ licensed in 2001? What a
deal.

I also was WA3RJX
some 6 years *after* being WB2OSP. It is a matter of the call district.
If
you move, you loose (at least back in the days). I was N2JH in the early
70s, given the time to renew one's license, that was some 10 years and
more
after the WN2CJV (or even the WB2OSP) ticket.

As a Novice and new General I worked so many WN, WA,WB2's I thought that
is all there was on 40cw.

I dropped my K8 call in the mid 70s. When I decided I was going to stay
here in
Bama after I got out in 79. So I had to change my callsign due to the move.


Heck, maybe after we get a time and frequency (and the 4 call district
might
be tough except for 40 meters), perhaps we can get a few others on the
frequency.

Fine by me.
I'd almost bet that Hans could wipe us both out ... but we can see ....

I don't know....I know I have worked him several times on SSB in a contest.
Don't remember if I did in CW or not.

Tell ya what, if Lennie comes up on frequency on CW, I'm gonna quit right
then and there!

Let's give it a go.



73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA



Dan/W4NTI

Jim Hampton wrote:

I am pretty sure you are correct. I also believe that WV2 was the novice
prefix which would turn into WA2 when the tech or general was obtained (no
quick routes to the extra back then; you had to have some time with a
license before you could even take the test). WN2 turned into WB2. Not
sure about the K prefix. The novice goes back into the 50s, I believe.

Novices who got K calls were KN, the N being dropped with upgrade. When
I got my Novice I recieved a K call, friends who were licensed at the
same time got WN calls which became WA on upgrade. The WA lasted until
they ran out of A's then they started issuing WB's.