Jim Hampton wrote:
Hello, Kim

Dang, top post or bottom post, but who cares?

Reality is that they changed the rules and it cut my pension by around $300
per month! I was lucky, however. A few folks were just shy off 55 (one guy
was 2 weeks short of 55) and they get no health coverage nor life insurance.

They pulled the plug a bit late on me. Although not big, I'm looking at
over $300 per week after taxes. After working a contract job at $13.00 per
hour (what a whack in pay!) and we all were let go after 3 months, I've
decided to heck with it. I can live on the $300 to $350 per week. I've
only a few years before Social Insecurity and I have health insurance. I
have to make adjustments, but I can pay my taxes.

I'm certain that changes will occur when enough folks get hurt. I'm just
tired of banging my head into a brick wall. I read the same old tired
threads and the claims that the left-wing groups lied when they reported
stories. Certainly mistakes have been made, but I cannot help but note that
as time goes by and more stories leak out, it would appear that some folks
will just not let go of the official stance. Whether amateur radio or the
current administration.

I did have a laugh. Years ago, I wrote a program which generated ladder
code for a programmable ladder controller. I could do the work of 8 hours
of tool engineering time in 15 minutes. A lot of credit was given to other
folks. Amazingly, the program "disappeared".

I had left and then went back to that company some 7 years later. When our
department was getting ready to close, I spoke with one supervisor about the
fact that the programming in the controllers was terrible and I could
increase production about 20% (I proved a 50% increase back in 1982). When
he suggested we approach the manager I told him the truth. It wouldn't save
his job nor mine. I let it go. I honestly don't care and after the
requisite two years I will e-mail the code to a competitor. A foreign
competitor. I generally avoid confrontation and tend to not be nasty, but
in this case .... )

Make my day.

I have generally found that the well educated are either labeled as "geeks"
or "left-wing radicals". The self-righteous folks haven't seen real flack.
It is about time that they did.

So you noticed that education is a "bad thing" too, eh, Jim?

I've seen good old "Dave" talking about "old timers". He's off by a mile,
but anyone with a ticket should be welcomed and accepted with none of the
B.S. concerning license classes. There are codeless techs that can run
rings around me, and I can run rings around most of the extras. I'm not
talking Morse, but I could there too.

Superiority based on either Morse code or the contents of the new or
old tests is shallow superiority indeed.

Thinking that such things impart superiority is even shallower.

I can assure you, anyone with a "holier than thou" attitude on one group I
co-own will be gone in a heartbeat. We all have enough troubles without
some idiot adding to the garbage.

Yeah!

- Mike KB3EIA -

The most hilarious Indian with an accent I have heard was one which preaches
the Bible. Heard on SW recently!
So funny!

"uncle arnie" wrote in message
...
Those who are interested, here's a link to a radio program about Indian
call
centres and the social conditions that bring them to India.

http://www.cbc.ca/dispatches/summer2003.html

This is the text, search for India and you'll come to the real audio link:

College graduates often complain how hard it is to find a job these days.
But imagine living in India, where unemployment among young people can be
more than 50 percent.

Getting work on the subcontinent is kind of like staying dry in monsoon
season.

Except in the southern city of Bangalore, where the CBC's Mihira Lakshman
says the ability to sound like you're from the American heartland, is the
key to a whole new kind of career.

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Jim Hampton wrote:
Hello, Kim

Dang, top post or bottom post, but who cares?

Reality is that they changed the rules and it cut my pension by around
$300
per month! I was lucky, however. A few folks were just shy off 55 (one
guy
was 2 weeks short of 55) and they get no health coverage nor life
insurance.

They pulled the plug a bit late on me. Although not big, I'm looking at
over $300 per week after taxes. After working a contract job at $13.00
per
hour (what a whack in pay!) and we all were let go after 3 months, I've
decided to heck with it. I can live on the $300 to $350 per week. I've
only a few years before Social Insecurity and I have health insurance.
I
have to make adjustments, but I can pay my taxes.

I'm certain that changes will occur when enough folks get hurt. I'm
just
tired of banging my head into a brick wall. I read the same old tired
threads and the claims that the left-wing groups lied when they reported
stories. Certainly mistakes have been made, but I cannot help but note
that
as time goes by and more stories leak out, it would appear that some
folks
will just not let go of the official stance. Whether amateur radio or
the
current administration.

I did have a laugh. Years ago, I wrote a program which generated ladder
code for a programmable ladder controller. I could do the work of 8
hours
of tool engineering time in 15 minutes. A lot of credit was given to
other
folks. Amazingly, the program "disappeared".

I had left and then went back to that company some 7 years later. When
our
department was getting ready to close, I spoke with one supervisor about
the
fact that the programming in the controllers was terrible and I could
increase production about 20% (I proved a 50% increase back in 1982).
When
he suggested we approach the manager I told him the truth. It wouldn't
save
his job nor mine. I let it go. I honestly don't care and after the
requisite two years I will e-mail the code to a competitor. A foreign
competitor. I generally avoid confrontation and tend to not be nasty,
but
in this case .... )

Make my day.

I have generally found that the well educated are either labeled as
"geeks"
or "left-wing radicals". The self-righteous folks haven't seen real
flack.
It is about time that they did.

So you noticed that education is a "bad thing" too, eh, Jim?

I've seen good old "Dave" talking about "old timers". He's off by a
mile,
but anyone with a ticket should be welcomed and accepted with none of
the
B.S. concerning license classes. There are codeless techs that can run
rings around me, and I can run rings around most of the extras. I'm not
talking Morse, but I could there too.

Superiority based on either Morse code or the contents of the new or
old tests is shallow superiority indeed.

Thinking that such things impart superiority is even shallower.

I can assure you, anyone with a "holier than thou" attitude on one group
I
co-own will be gone in a heartbeat. We all have enough troubles without
some idiot adding to the garbage.

Yeah!

- Mike KB3EIA -

Hello, Mike

True enough. Interestingly, although I had some problems with The Calculus,
I've overcome much of it in the past 3 months simply because I suddenly
found it "interesting".

As to education, I'm surprised at the number of folks with "associates" or
"baccalaureate" degrees that are totally lacking in the sciences. They do
seem proficient, however, at "cut and paste".

Most interesting.


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

"Kim" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
uncle arnie wrote:

Those who are interested, here's a link to a radio program about Indian
call
centres and the social conditions that bring them to India.

http://www.cbc.ca/dispatches/summer2003.html

This is the text, search for India and you'll come to the real audio
link:

College graduates often complain how hard it is to find a job these
days.
But imagine living in India, where unemployment among young people can
be
more than 50 percent.

Getting work on the subcontinent is kind of like staying dry in monsoon
season.

Except in the southern city of Bangalore, where the CBC's Mihira
Lakshman
says the ability to sound like you're from the American heartland, is
the
key to a whole new kind of career.

Depending on what you are calling about the last time I called for
assistance with my Dell was last month the call went to Manilla. The
month before that it was Deli.


It will generally depend upon the time of day that you are calling in for
assistance. Companies route their calls to the area of the world that is
"awake" when you are calling.

Mind everyone on ths thread: I keep seeing posts as though it is only
computer help that has call centers in foreign lands. That is incorrect.
There's a huge swing in the United States to outsource
any--*any*--telephone
contact to foreign "BPOs" (Business Process Outsourcers). That means any
customer service you can think of, is more than likely being answered
overseas. Why? It's not that call centers here in the United States
can't
be personed (being politically correct) 24-hrs a day. It's the bottom
line.
It's supposedly cheaper to have the work done overseas. I doubt that it
is,
given frustration levels of customers and, more definitely, the long term
effect of taking all that kind of work out of this country, putting people
out of work, and ultimately destroying your own customer base by not being
able to sell product. However, the short-term, money hungry, uncaring CEO
and affiliated BOD who are lining their pockets with their savings don't
care.

Kim W5TIT



Hello, Kim

A few years ago, I was with AT&T. It took, perhaps, only a minute or so to
be connected with the help desk.

I left for DSL and after two years went back to dial-up. Frontier (the DSL
provider) was good with the help desk. I only needed it once when they
changed my ISP address.

I needed the help desk once with AT&T. Reasonably fast, but obviously
Indian in origin, they kept offering me all of these "extras". Heck, I had
a problem with newgroups. Oh, no newsgroups. OK.

Well, I went back to Frontier. I received a new modem, but called the help
desk to see if I could use the old one from two years before. They answered
immediately. It was a local help desk. Yes, I could.

Well, no DSL signal. I called again and they informed me it would be turned
on two days later. Fine. I hung up and started watching television.

Suddenly, there were some "clicks" on the telephones in the house. I became
suspicious and turned on the modem. Sure enough, it synchronized with a DSL
signal. I turned on the computer and the internet came up with a rush that
I wasn't used to. A 3 megabaud pipe between me and the Internet. I was up
and running! Oh yes, free newsgroups

For this change from "decent" help support from India to "immediate" local
response and a change from 56k to 3,000k I had in increase from $15.00 per
month to $30.00 per month (ok, $29.95). I can handle that

You betcha. This short sighted sh*t will catch up with various companies.

Meanwhile, I'm waiting for my "agreement" to not work for a competitor to
end (24 months). I am thinking seriously of e-mailing a most interesting
program to a competitor. It was developed entirely at home on my computer
with my (purchased and legal) software. If they wish, they (the foreign
competitor) can mail me a dollar. No American company would pay me for it,
so the foreigners can have it; the former employer can deal with it later

In the meantime, by not working, not only don't I have to pay taxes off the
top (and worry about paying for gasoline off what I am left), I may be
entitled to free care at the V.A. next year! Of course, I'll still have to
pay co-payments for prescriptions, but WTH.

Also, I am keeping up the modest payments to maintain my health coverage
from my former employer. Life is sweet )

All I need is 4 more years to Social Insecurity.

As was stated in one of the "Startrek" movies, revenge is a dish best served
cold.



73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

Jim Hampton wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

Jim Hampton wrote:

Hello, Kim

Dang, top post or bottom post, but who cares?

Reality is that they changed the rules and it cut my pension by around

$300

per month! I was lucky, however. A few folks were just shy off 55 (one

guy

was 2 weeks short of 55) and they get no health coverage nor life

insurance.

They pulled the plug a bit late on me. Although not big, I'm looking at
over $300 per week after taxes. After working a contract job at $13.00

per

hour (what a whack in pay!) and we all were let go after 3 months, I've
decided to heck with it. I can live on the $300 to $350 per week. I've
only a few years before Social Insecurity and I have health insurance.

I

have to make adjustments, but I can pay my taxes.

I'm certain that changes will occur when enough folks get hurt. I'm

just

tired of banging my head into a brick wall. I read the same old tired
threads and the claims that the left-wing groups lied when they reported
stories. Certainly mistakes have been made, but I cannot help but note

that

as time goes by and more stories leak out, it would appear that some

folks

will just not let go of the official stance. Whether amateur radio or

the

current administration.

I did have a laugh. Years ago, I wrote a program which generated ladder
code for a programmable ladder controller. I could do the work of 8

hours

of tool engineering time in 15 minutes. A lot of credit was given to

other

folks. Amazingly, the program "disappeared".

I had left and then went back to that company some 7 years later. When

our

department was getting ready to close, I spoke with one supervisor about

the

fact that the programming in the controllers was terrible and I could
increase production about 20% (I proved a 50% increase back in 1982).

When

he suggested we approach the manager I told him the truth. It wouldn't

save

his job nor mine. I let it go. I honestly don't care and after the
requisite two years I will e-mail the code to a competitor. A foreign
competitor. I generally avoid confrontation and tend to not be nasty,

but

in this case .... )

Make my day.

I have generally found that the well educated are either labeled as

"geeks"

or "left-wing radicals". The self-righteous folks haven't seen real

flack.

It is about time that they did.

So you noticed that education is a "bad thing" too, eh, Jim?


I've seen good old "Dave" talking about "old timers". He's off by a

mile,

but anyone with a ticket should be welcomed and accepted with none of

the

B.S. concerning license classes. There are codeless techs that can run
rings around me, and I can run rings around most of the extras. I'm not
talking Morse, but I could there too.

Superiority based on either Morse code or the contents of the new or
old tests is shallow superiority indeed.

Thinking that such things impart superiority is even shallower.


I can assure you, anyone with a "holier than thou" attitude on one group

I

co-own will be gone in a heartbeat. We all have enough troubles without
some idiot adding to the garbage.

Yeah!

- Mike KB3EIA -


Hello, Mike

True enough. Interestingly, although I had some problems with The Calculus,
I've overcome much of it in the past 3 months simply because I suddenly
found it "interesting".

As to education, I'm surprised at the number of folks with "associates" or
"baccalaureate" degrees that are totally lacking in the sciences. They do
seem proficient, however, at "cut and paste".

Science is troublesome for "modern" humans. While so many enjoy
technology, they get rapidly uncomfortable with the underlying science.

Don't worry though, we're moving to "Faith Based Science". The pilot
program is going on right now in Kansas.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Aristotle wrote in
:


Most Indians speak very good English, at least in the cities, AFAIK.
I've never been to India, but all the Indians I've met elsewhere spoke
perfect English, albeit sometimes heavily accented. They have many
different languages and use English as a lingua franca to talk to other
Indians in their own country, so complete fluency is more the rule than
the exception.

I know that most Indians speak good English, and I have no problem
with their accent. But I had one once who apparently did not
understand English. It was as if he was reading from a script and was
expecting a certain answer back. It was VERY frustrating. Perhaps if
these call centers were a little more discriminating in who they
hired.







Reading from a script reminds me of encounters in various fast food places
that go something like this:-

Customer: I'd like a burger and fries please

Staff person: Would you like fries with that?

The moral is that you don't have to be ignorant of the language to be
reading from a script

JS,

UA,

Mike Coslo wrote:

Science is troublesome for "modern" humans.

Well, at least some of them. A very vocal group, though.

While so many enjoy
technology, they get rapidly uncomfortable with the underlying
science.

"Inherit The Wind" all over again.

Don't worry though, we're moving to "Faith Based Science".

An oxymoron if there ever was one!

The pilot program is going on right now in Kansas.

The surreal thing about it is that it comes down to trying to
understand a complex Book, not science. In fact, it's all about
just the first few chapters of that Book.

Yet one wonders if those who are most adamant about said Book
have actually read it, because in its first few chapters, it
tells two different creation stories that contradict each
other.

73 de Jim, N2EY

On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 20:23:07 -0400, Cmd Buzz Corey
wrote:

Blue Cornchips wrote:


Vijay Mukhi, a call centre analyst, said websites have sprung up in the
US giving phone numbers of companies which use call centres in India,
and listing Hindi swear words to be used to abuse staff. 'When you move
jobs away from a country, there's going to be a lot of pent-up
frustration which gets let out on Indian workers,' he said.

There might not be so much frustration if they could understand enough
English to understand your problem. I delt with a help desk in India
over a credit card issue...never could get it across what my problem was
no matter how many ways I attempted to expalin it, when I asked to speak
to a manager, she hung up.
Maybe these companies will finally get the message that customers are
getting tired of dealing with people who can't understand enough English
to be of any help and bring the support centers back to the U.S. Don't
hold your breath.

The best I ever heard was the guy in the US who couldn't tell
from the accesn whom he was dealing with. The clue came when the help
desk guy told him the problem was because he didn't have sufficient
rupees in his account.

Personally I've had good and bad Indians and good and bad
USians.

If I can't understand either kind, I ask for someone who can
speak and troubleshoot in ubderstandable English.