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K=D8HB wrote: wrote I also disagree because when you get right down to it it's functionally the same as using the spots. No, it's not functionally equivalent. If you use cluster spots, then you= are using information the some OTHER RADIOMAN at a DIFFERENT STATION provided= .. If you have your own robo-hound searching FROM YOUR STATION then you acquire= d the information of the air without assistance from outside sources. If you work a mult you didn't find with your own ears you're using assistance. =20 =20 73, de Hans, K0HB w3rv |
wrote If you work a mult you didn't find with your own ears you're using assistance. Truely I could argue that any aid in your station is "assistance" --- but not OUTSIDE assistance. Dupe sheets and electric pencil sharpeners are "assistance" at some stations! If you can harness technology to gain some advantage in the radiosport game, so long as that technology is in YOUR station and under YOUR control, then more power to you. Only if that assistance originates at ANOTHER station as the result of efforts of other radiomen (ie., cluster spots), then your log should no longer qualify as an SO entry. That's my story and I'm sticking to it! 73, de Hans, K0HB |
K=D8HB wrote: wrote If you work a mult you didn't find with your own ears you're using assistance. Truely I could argue that any aid in your station is "assistance" --- but= not OUTSIDE assistance. Dupe sheets and electric pencil sharpeners are "assi= stance" at some stations! If you can harness technology to gain some advantage in the radiosport ga= me, so long as that technology is in YOUR station and under YOUR control, then m= ore power to you. Only if that assistance originates at ANOTHER station as t= he result of efforts of other radiomen (ie., cluster spots), then your log s= hould no longer qualify as an SO entry. That's my story and I'm sticking to it! OK, OK, OK! SHEEEESH . . #@%x#$ . . . !=20 =20 73, de Hans, K0HB |
"Dee Flint" wrote in message ... "Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message ink.net... [snip] Why do I contest? To improve my score by improving my station and myself. Its as simple as that. Have a good day PS; I worked a bunch of sporadic skip yesterday on six meters in the June VHF contest.....with 8 watts and a 3 ele yagi at 20'. It's all a matter of perspective. Dan/W4NTI I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)? Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Hey Dee, Good question actually. Perhaps they are part of the vast majority of hams that are inactive. More likely they are all "stuck" on FM and have not a clue what else is going on with V/Uhf. What a shame. Dan/W4NTI |
wrote in message oups.com... Dee Flint wrote: I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)? It's Techs being Techs again, they're too busy "advancing the state of the art" to be bothered with learning the code and contesting. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE w3rv BWAHHHHHHHHH....we both know the "Tech" license stopped being technical in nature way back in the early 60s. And MOST VHF/UHF contesting is done in SSB mode. Dan/W4NTI |
wrote in message ups.com... Dan/W4NTI wrote: Winning is beating the Yankee Clippers. Try operating at that "level" for the ultimate contesting experience. 73 de Jim, N2EY w3rv You got that right. Keep an eye on W4AN. The new call for the SECC (South East Contest Club). NQ4I is another super station to watch for. Also SECC. Uh-oh! This is news to me. A real three-way brawl amongst the Unlimiteds would inject some new fire into the game for certain. But you better be able to pull up around 250 Meg aggregate to get into it. Dan/W4NTI Oh I know.... I know....keep a watch for the SECC. Were on the way. Dan/W4NTI |
wrote in message oups.com... wrote: wrote: KØHB wrote: "Bill Turner" wrote Contesting hardware has evolved to the point that one must spend a small fortune to be competitive.......... I don't think money is what makes you competitive. Depends on what's competitive, the op, the station or both. A competitive op doesn't have spend a dime on a station. Which is where some of the hotshot multi-op guys come from. One of ours lives in Manhatten for instance, zero chance for having a home station no matter how much money he might be willing to spend. Have skills will travel. It's an important factor, though. Always has been. Part of the game in most contests. I agree with that. One can take a $200 station or even a $1,000 station into the contests and have some fun with it but it won't be a competitive station by a long shot *if* the frame of reference is a decent score in the DX contests. A decent score in SS at the section level with a budget station is another story altogether. "Pick the fights you can win", as a wise man once wrote. 73 de Jim, N2EY Which is why Sweeps is such a major contest. Lots of small stations in all sorts of locations. It is a blast. In the last 7 years I have 5 clean sweep cups. Both for phone and CW. Thats the challange for me. Dan/W4NTI |
wrote in message ups.com... KØHB wrote: wrote If you work a mult you didn't find with your own ears you're using assistance. Truely I could argue that any aid in your station is "assistance" --- but not OUTSIDE assistance. Dupe sheets and electric pencil sharpeners are "assistance" at some stations! If you can harness technology to gain some advantage in the radiosport game, so long as that technology is in YOUR station and under YOUR control, then more power to you. Only if that assistance originates at ANOTHER station as the result of efforts of other radiomen (ie., cluster spots), then your log should no longer qualify as an SO entry. That's my story and I'm sticking to it! OK, OK, OK! SHEEEESH . . #@%x#$ . . . ! 73, de Hans, K0HB I don't know about all you big guns but I need all the help I can get. But I still do it the old fashioned way. I hunt and find. Dan/W4NTI |
"KØHB" wrote in message ink.net... I hear real estate is very reasonably priced in VY0-land. 73, de Hans, K0HB But Hans......won't the SB-220 melt the igloo? Dan/W4NTI |
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
wrote in message oups.com... Oddly enough, much of the advancement in ham rigs has come about because of contesting. For example, one of the first uses of computers in ham radio was their use in logkeeping. I think one of the university stations gets credit for that, using the U's mainframe to dupe and print out their SS logs circa 1968. The improvements in receiver sections to have better dynamic range, phase noise, and filtering is, IMHO, largely driven by the contest/DX folks. And primarily the big guns, who would plunk down big bucks for a top-of-the-line rig if it gave them an advantage. Then, of course, the technology that first appeared in the top-of-the-line rigs worked its way into less expensive ones. So we all benefit. (makes me wonder if Hans has his IC-7800 yet...) 73 de Jim, N2EY Stop picking on Hans, Who's picking on Hans? If there's anybody who can get the most out of an IC-7800, and deserves to be using one, it's K0HB. I'm just wondering if he's got one yet. I hear his...well at least his call, real regular in the contests. g I've worked you and he in SS many, many times. Thanks for the points and AL, btw. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
wrote in message oups.com... Dan/W4NTI wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Oddly enough, much of the advancement in ham rigs has come about because of contesting. For example, one of the first uses of computers in ham radio was their use in logkeeping. I think one of the university stations gets credit for that, using the U's mainframe to dupe and print out their SS logs circa 1968. The improvements in receiver sections to have better dynamic range, phase noise, and filtering is, IMHO, largely driven by the contest/DX folks. And primarily the big guns, who would plunk down big bucks for a top-of-the-line rig if it gave them an advantage. Then, of course, the technology that first appeared in the top-of-the-line rigs worked its way into less expensive ones. So we all benefit. (makes me wonder if Hans has his IC-7800 yet...) 73 de Jim, N2EY Stop picking on Hans, Who's picking on Hans? If there's anybody who can get the most out of an IC-7800, and deserves to be using one, it's K0HB. I'm just wondering if he's got one yet. I hear his...well at least his call, real regular in the contests. g I've worked you and he in SS many, many times. Thanks for the points and AL, btw. 73 de Jim, N2EY My pleasure....same back to you. Dan/W4NTI |
Dee Flint wrote:
"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message ink.net... [snip] Why do I contest? To improve my score by improving my station and myself. Its as simple as that. Have a good day PS; I worked a bunch of sporadic skip yesterday on six meters in the June VHF contest.....with 8 watts and a 3 ele yagi at 20'. It's all a matter of perspective. Dan/W4NTI I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)? Oh, they're still trapped on VHF, Dee. Most of 'em are so trapped that they know only one mode--FM and do all of their operating via repeaters. Dave K8MN |
"Dave Heil" wrote in message ink.net... Dee Flint wrote: "Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message ink.net... [snip] Why do I contest? To improve my score by improving my station and myself. Its as simple as that. Have a good day PS; I worked a bunch of sporadic skip yesterday on six meters in the June VHF contest.....with 8 watts and a 3 ele yagi at 20'. It's all a matter of perspective. Dan/W4NTI I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)? Oh, they're still trapped on VHF, Dee. Most of 'em are so trapped that they know only one mode--FM and do all of their operating via repeaters. Dave K8MN Hello, Dave Yep, I'm only on 10 and 440. On 10 meters, I use SSB (one FM contact) as the thing has no provision for CW. On 440 I stay on FM. One guy was really talking up the need for CW so I did, with the repeater owner's permission, change to MCW. 40 words per. No problem. :) 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA |
Dave Heil wrote: Dee Flint wrote: "Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message ink.net... [snip] Why do I contest? To improve my score by improving my station and myself. Its as simple as that. Have a good day PS; I worked a bunch of sporadic skip yesterday on six meters in the June VHF contest.....with 8 watts and a 3 ele yagi at 20'. It's all a matter of perspective. Dan/W4NTI I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)? Oh, they're still trapped on VHF, Dee. Most of 'em are so trapped that they know only one mode--FM and do all of their operating via repeaters. Dave K8MN What a wunnerful attitude you have toward Techs, Oh Mighty DXer. And people have to ask who chased away the Techs. I guess the only time you would embrace a Tech is if he were calling you out of band on 6M. Hi! |
Dan/W4NTI wrote: "Dee Flint" wrote in message ... I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)? Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Hey Dee, Good question actually. Perhaps they are part of the vast majority of hams that are inactive. More likely they are all "stuck" on FM and have not a clue what else is going on with V/Uhf. What a shame. Dan/W4NTI Ah, yes. The Shameful, Clueless Techs. With attitudes like yours, it's no wonder they don't hang around. |
Dee Flint wrote: I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)? Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Dee, I'm going to guess (i.e., don't ask me for facts, figures, substantive studies, reports from the FCC/ARRL, etc) that of the Techs that have stayed in amateur radio, most have done so for the emergency communications aspect of the service. As such, they would typically stay on FM. The ones who could learn Morse Code and have had to time to do so have moved up. Those who didn't have the time or couldn't learn it have moved on. It's nice to see Miss Manners finally noticing something amiss in the ARS. |
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Dan/W4NTI wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Dee Flint wrote: I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)? It's Techs being Techs again, they're too busy "advancing the state of the art" to be bothered with learning the code and contesting. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE w3rv BWAHHHHHHHHH....we both know the "Tech" license stopped being technical in nature way back in the early 60s. Dan, I've never seen you advocating "Truth in Licensing." Have you said as much to the FCC in any of your NPRM comments? And MOST VHF/UHF contesting is done in SSB mode. Dan/W4NTI If most of the VHF/UHF Contestors are Extra's as Dee says, why isn't CW used most often? |
bb wrote:
Dave Heil wrote: Dee Flint wrote: "Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message thlink.net... [snip] Why do I contest? To improve my score by improving my station and myself. Its as simple as that. Have a good day PS; I worked a bunch of sporadic skip yesterday on six meters in the June VHF contest.....with 8 watts and a 3 ele yagi at 20'. It's all a matter of perspective. Dan/W4NTI I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)? Oh, they're still trapped on VHF, Dee. Most of 'em are so trapped that they know only one mode--FM and do all of their operating via repeaters. What a wunnerful attitude you have toward Techs, Oh Mighty DXer. And people have to ask who chased away the Techs. I guess the only time you would embrace a Tech is if he were calling you out of band on 6M. Hi! I don't embrace radio amateurs at all, "bb". A firm handshake is good enough for me. My attitude toward many of the current crop of new techs is one bathed upon five years observation, since returning to the U.S. I haven't chased them anywhere. In fact, it has been just the opposite. I've tried to encourage them to use simplex on FM. I've tried to encourage them to try 6 meters along with 432 and 144 MHz SSB and CW. I can't be faulted that they don't act after being encouraged. If these folks are, in fact "trapped" in a world of 2m only FM repeater operation, they have fashioned the trap themselves by not being more curious about the rest of VHF/UHF amateur radio. There are avenues open to them but they aren't participating. Dave K8MN |
bb wrote:
Dan/W4NTI wrote: "Dee Flint" wrote in message ... I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)? Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Hey Dee, Good question actually. Perhaps they are part of the vast majority of hams that are inactive. More likely they are all "stuck" on FM and have not a clue what else is going on with V/Uhf. What a shame. Dan/W4NTI Ah, yes. The Shameful, Clueless Techs. With attitudes like yours, it's no wonder they don't hang around. They'd have to come around in order to hang around. Dave K8MN |
bb wrote:
Dan/W4NTI wrote: wrote in message groups.com... Dee Flint wrote: I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)? It's Techs being Techs again, they're too busy "advancing the state of the art" to be bothered with learning the code and contesting. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE w3rv BWAHHHHHHHHH....we both know the "Tech" license stopped being technical in nature way back in the early 60s. Dan, I've never seen you advocating "Truth in Licensing." Have you said as much to the FCC in any of your NPRM comments? And MOST VHF/UHF contesting is done in SSB mode. Dan/W4NTI If most of the VHF/UHF Contestors are Extra's as Dee says, why isn't CW used most often? It is used, "bb", but ops are attempting to maximize score by working everyone, even those not using CW. I switch modes quite often during the course of a VHF/UHF contest. During heavy aurora, CW works much better than SSB. I'd have thought you'd have already known it. Dave K8MN |
"bb" wrote in message oups.com... Dee Flint wrote: I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)? Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Dee, I'm going to guess (i.e., don't ask me for facts, figures, substantive studies, reports from the FCC/ARRL, etc) that of the Techs that have stayed in amateur radio, most have done so for the emergency communications aspect of the service. As such, they would typically stay on FM. The ones who could learn Morse Code and have had to time to do so have moved up. Those who didn't have the time or couldn't learn it have moved on. There are none who cannot learn the code. However there are those for whom other activities can and should have priority on their time. However that is no excuse for eliminating it as a test element since the same argument can be applied to the theory. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"bb" wrote in message oups.com... Dan/W4NTI wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Dee Flint wrote: I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)? It's Techs being Techs again, they're too busy "advancing the state of the art" to be bothered with learning the code and contesting. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE w3rv BWAHHHHHHHHH....we both know the "Tech" license stopped being technical in nature way back in the early 60s. Dan, I've never seen you advocating "Truth in Licensing." Have you said as much to the FCC in any of your NPRM comments? And MOST VHF/UHF contesting is done in SSB mode. Dan/W4NTI If most of the VHF/UHF Contestors are Extra's as Dee says, why isn't CW used most often? How do you know it wasn't/isn't? I worked a fair number of stations on CW in that contest. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"Dave Heil" wrote in message ink.net... bb wrote: Dave Heil wrote: Dee Flint wrote: "Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message rthlink.net... [snip] Why do I contest? To improve my score by improving my station and myself. Its as simple as that. Have a good day PS; I worked a bunch of sporadic skip yesterday on six meters in the June VHF contest.....with 8 watts and a 3 ele yagi at 20'. It's all a matter of perspective. Dan/W4NTI I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)? Oh, they're still trapped on VHF, Dee. Most of 'em are so trapped that they know only one mode--FM and do all of their operating via repeaters. What a wunnerful attitude you have toward Techs, Oh Mighty DXer. And people have to ask who chased away the Techs. I guess the only time you would embrace a Tech is if he were calling you out of band on 6M. Hi! I don't embrace radio amateurs at all, "bb". A firm handshake is good enough for me. My attitude toward many of the current crop of new techs is one bathed upon five years observation, since returning to the U.S. I haven't chased them anywhere. In fact, it has been just the opposite. I've tried to encourage them to use simplex on FM. I've tried to encourage them to try 6 meters along with 432 and 144 MHz SSB and CW. I can't be faulted that they don't act after being encouraged. If these folks are, in fact "trapped" in a world of 2m only FM repeater operation, they have fashioned the trap themselves by not being more curious about the rest of VHF/UHF amateur radio. There are avenues open to them but they aren't participating. Dave K8MN I agree with you Dave, I and the OM (who is our local club's VHF/UHF SSB guru) have worked hard at trying to get Techs involved with something other than repeater FM. While we have had some modest success, it's only a small percentage of the Techs who have jumped into these waters. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"Dave Heil" wrote in message ink.net... bb wrote: Dan/W4NTI wrote: wrote in message egroups.com... Dee Flint wrote: I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)? It's Techs being Techs again, they're too busy "advancing the state of the art" to be bothered with learning the code and contesting. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE w3rv BWAHHHHHHHHH....we both know the "Tech" license stopped being technical in nature way back in the early 60s. Dan, I've never seen you advocating "Truth in Licensing." Have you said as much to the FCC in any of your NPRM comments? And MOST VHF/UHF contesting is done in SSB mode. Dan/W4NTI If most of the VHF/UHF Contestors are Extra's as Dee says, why isn't CW used most often? It is used, "bb", but ops are attempting to maximize score by working everyone, even those not using CW. I switch modes quite often during the course of a VHF/UHF contest. During heavy aurora, CW works much better than SSB. I'd have thought you'd have already known it. Dave K8MN In one case the other station wasn't hearing me through the pile up (SSB) so I switched to CW and threw in the call sign. He immediately called for me (in voice) so I switched back to voice to do the contact. Worked pretty slick. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Dee Flint wrote: "bb" wrote in message oups.com... Dan/W4NTI wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Dee Flint wrote: I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)? It's Techs being Techs again, they're too busy "advancing the state of the art" to be bothered with learning the code and contesting. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE w3rv BWAHHHHHHHHH....we both know the "Tech" license stopped being technical in nature way back in the early 60s. Dan, I've never seen you advocating "Truth in Licensing." Have you said as much to the FCC in any of your NPRM comments? And MOST VHF/UHF contesting is done in SSB mode. Dan/W4NTI If most of the VHF/UHF Contestors are Extra's as Dee says, why isn't CW used most often? How do you know it wasn't/isn't? I worked a fair number of stations on CW in that contest. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE I only know what you told us. Extra's working Extras on SSB. |
Dave Heil wrote: bb wrote: Dan/W4NTI wrote: wrote in message groups.com... Dee Flint wrote: I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)? It's Techs being Techs again, they're too busy "advancing the state of the art" to be bothered with learning the code and contesting. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE w3rv BWAHHHHHHHHH....we both know the "Tech" license stopped being technical in nature way back in the early 60s. Dan, I've never seen you advocating "Truth in Licensing." Have you said as much to the FCC in any of your NPRM comments? And MOST VHF/UHF contesting is done in SSB mode. Dan/W4NTI If most of the VHF/UHF Contestors are Extra's as Dee says, why isn't CW used most often? It is used, "bb", but ops are attempting to maximize score by working everyone, even those not using CW. I switch modes quite often during the course of a VHF/UHF contest. During heavy aurora, CW works much better than SSB. I'd have thought you'd have already known it. Dave K8MN Dee made it sound like Extras were working Extras on SSB. I guess it wasn't at all like Dee claimed. |
Dee Flint wrote: "bb" wrote in message oups.com... Dan/W4NTI wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Dee Flint wrote: I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)? It's Techs being Techs again, they're too busy "advancing the state of the art" to be bothered with learning the code and contesting. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE w3rv BWAHHHHHHHHH....we both know the "Tech" license stopped being technical in nature way back in the early 60s. Dan, I've never seen you advocating "Truth in Licensing." Have you said as much to the FCC in any of your NPRM comments? And MOST VHF/UHF contesting is done in SSB mode. Dan/W4NTI If most of the VHF/UHF Contestors are Extra's as Dee says, why isn't CW used most often? How do you know it wasn't/isn't? I worked a fair number of stations on CW in that contest. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Because Dan said, "And MOST VHF/UHF contesting is done in SSB mode." Was Dan wrong? You know, you and David Heil K8MN ought to let Dan answer the questions that I asked of Dan instead of jumping in here and getting it wrong. Best of Luck. |
Dave Heil wrote: bb wrote: Dave Heil wrote: Dee Flint wrote: "Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message thlink.net... [snip] Why do I contest? To improve my score by improving my station and myself. Its as simple as that. Have a good day PS; I worked a bunch of sporadic skip yesterday on six meters in the June VHF contest.....with 8 watts and a 3 ele yagi at 20'. It's all a matter of perspective. Dan/W4NTI I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)? Oh, they're still trapped on VHF, Dee. Most of 'em are so trapped that they know only one mode--FM and do all of their operating via repeaters. What a wunnerful attitude you have toward Techs, Oh Mighty DXer. And people have to ask who chased away the Techs. I guess the only time you would embrace a Tech is if he were calling you out of band on 6M. Hi! I don't embrace radio amateurs at all, "bb". A firm handshake is good enough for me. That's not what the French do. They kiss you on both cheeks, especially for handing out contacts and QSL cards for out of band contacts. My attitude toward many of the current crop of new techs is one bathed upon five years observation, since returning to the U.S. I haven't chased them anywhere. In fact, it has been just the opposite. I've tried to encourage them to use simplex on FM. I've tried to encourage them to try 6 meters along with 432 and 144 MHz SSB and CW. I can't be faulted that they don't act after being encouraged. If these folks are, in fact "trapped" in a world of 2m only FM repeater operation, they have fashioned the trap themselves by not being more curious about the rest of VHF/UHF amateur radio. There are avenues open to them but they aren't participating. Dave K8MN A penny for your thoughts. Maybe they are on FM yet not trapped at all. Maybe if you let Dee and Dan finish their thoughts on why they think the Techs are trapped we would have something worth discussing. My opinion (that means it's my opinion and I don't have to spend weeks at the Library of Congress to back up anything that I might say or forever be known as a liar and/or a gay man) is that those who joined for emergency communications purposes are perfectly happy with FM, and do not consider themselves as "trapped." All the "encouragement" in the world doesn't change their perspective. They're getting what they want out of amateur radio. What they don't need is to be denigrated by the Extras that think they need to do more to be a "real" ham. |
"Dave Heil" wrote in message ink.net... My attitude toward many of the current crop of new techs is one bathed upon five years observation, since returning to the U.S. I haven't chased them anywhere. In fact, it has been just the opposite. I've tried to encourage them to use simplex on FM. I've tried to encourage them to try 6 meters along with 432 and 144 MHz SSB and CW. I can't be faulted that they don't act after being encouraged. If these folks are, in fact "trapped" in a world of 2m only FM repeater operation, they have fashioned the trap themselves by not being more curious about the rest of VHF/UHF amateur radio. There are avenues open to them but they aren't participating. Dave K8MN Man does that say it all in a well articulated paragraph. Valid points out there in tech land. The Technician ticket originally was envisioned to enable those that had a technical slant that needed a place to play on the "air". It has degenerated into a defacto "entry level" to present day Ham Radio. What a bummer. I bet a lot of those out there don't know that the original Tech written was exactly the same as the General. The ONLY difference was the General had a 13 WPM cw test. Send and Receive. And the Tech had a 5wpm......and was available by mail. Dan/W4NTI |
Dee Flint wrote: "Dave Heil" wrote in message ink.net... bb wrote: Dave Heil wrote: Dee Flint wrote: "Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message rthlink.net... [snip] Why do I contest? To improve my score by improving my station and myself. Its as simple as that. Have a good day PS; I worked a bunch of sporadic skip yesterday on six meters in the June VHF contest.....with 8 watts and a 3 ele yagi at 20'. It's all a matter of perspective. Dan/W4NTI I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)? Oh, they're still trapped on VHF, Dee. Most of 'em are so trapped that they know only one mode--FM and do all of their operating via repeaters. What a wunnerful attitude you have toward Techs, Oh Mighty DXer. And people have to ask who chased away the Techs. I guess the only time you would embrace a Tech is if he were calling you out of band on 6M. Hi! I don't embrace radio amateurs at all, "bb". A firm handshake is good enough for me. My attitude toward many of the current crop of new techs is one bathed upon five years observation, since returning to the U.S. I haven't chased them anywhere. In fact, it has been just the opposite. I've tried to encourage them to use simplex on FM. I've tried to encourage them to try 6 meters along with 432 and 144 MHz SSB and CW. I can't be faulted that they don't act after being encouraged. If these folks are, in fact "trapped" in a world of 2m only FM repeater operation, they have fashioned the trap themselves by not being more curious about the rest of VHF/UHF amateur radio. There are avenues open to them but they aren't participating. Dave K8MN I agree with you Dave, Of course you do. I and the OM (who is our local club's VHF/UHF SSB guru) have worked hard at trying to get Techs involved with something other than repeater FM. Why? While we have had some modest success, it's only a small percentage of the Techs who have jumped into these waters. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Have you asked them why they are reluctant to jump into those waters? Since they've not jumped in, does that change your attitude about them? |
Dee Flint wrote: "bb" wrote in message oups.com... Dee Flint wrote: I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)? Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Dee, I'm going to guess (i.e., don't ask me for facts, figures, substantive studies, reports from the FCC/ARRL, etc) that of the Techs that have stayed in amateur radio, most have done so for the emergency communications aspect of the service. As such, they would typically stay on FM. The ones who could learn Morse Code and have had to time to do so have moved up. Those who didn't have the time or couldn't learn it have moved on. There are none who cannot learn the code. Really? Why do you say that? However there are those for whom other activities can and should have priority on their time. However that is no excuse for eliminating it as a test element since the same argument can be applied to the theory. You hold a very interesting point of view. You say that since everyone can learn the code, that it must be retained as a test element? I say that it should be removed as a test element because it no longer serves a regulatory purpose. |
"bb" wrote in message oups.com... Dan/W4NTI wrote: "Dee Flint" wrote in message ... I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)? Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Hey Dee, Good question actually. Perhaps they are part of the vast majority of hams that are inactive. More likely they are all "stuck" on FM and have not a clue what else is going on with V/Uhf. What a shame. Dan/W4NTI Ah, yes. The Shameful, Clueless Techs. With attitudes like yours, it's no wonder they don't hang around. I don't recall anyone on here, other than you "bb", using the word Shameful or Clueless regarding the Technician licensees. All I see is folks stating they don't understand why the Techs don't take full advantage of their full license privileges. You sir, are nothing but a agitator and a disgrace to ham radio in general, assuming you have a license that is. Dan/W4NTI |
"bb" wrote in message oups.com... Dee Flint wrote: I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)? Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Dee, I'm going to guess (i.e., don't ask me for facts, figures, substantive studies, reports from the FCC/ARRL, etc) that of the Techs that have stayed in amateur radio, most have done so for the emergency communications aspect of the service. As such, they would typically stay on FM. The ones who could learn Morse Code and have had to time to do so have moved up. Those who didn't have the time or couldn't learn it have moved on. It's nice to see Miss Manners finally noticing something amiss in the ARS. "bb" is just full of all sorts of assumptions, ain't he boys and girls? Using his logic then all us "higher" class operators need to get out of EMCOM, eh? I'll be sure to tell the Extra class Emergency Net Control operator next time I see her. Dan/W4NTI |
"bb" wrote in message oups.com... wrote: Dee Flint wrote: I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)? It's Techs being Techs again, they're too busy "advancing the state of the art" to be bothered with learning the code and contesting. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE w3rv It's so refreshing to see Extras being Extras again; having their usual disdain for the No Code Techs. And some people have to ask who chased away the Techs. Does the name "DIP****" mean anything to you "bb" ? Just curious. Dan/W4NTI |
Dan/W4NTI wrote: "Dave Heil" wrote in message ink.net... My attitude toward many of the current crop of new techs is one bathed upon five years observation, since returning to the U.S. I haven't chased them anywhere. In fact, it has been just the opposite. I've tried to encourage them to use simplex on FM. I've tried to encourage them to try 6 meters along with 432 and 144 MHz SSB and CW. I can't be faulted that they don't act after being encouraged. If these folks are, in fact "trapped" in a world of 2m only FM repeater operation, they have fashioned the trap themselves by not being more curious about the rest of VHF/UHF amateur radio. There are avenues open to them but they aren't participating. Dave K8MN Man does that say it all in a well articulated paragraph. Valid points out there in tech land. Indeed it does. David has articulated, and Dan has agreed that a Tech really isn't worth much as an amateur if they don't do the things that Dave, Dan and Dee want them to be doing. I'm sure that your attitudes spill over into your communication with those unworthy Techs. The Technician ticket originally was envisioned to enable those that had a technical slant that needed a place to play on the "air". It has degenerated into a defacto "entry level" to present day Ham Radio. What a bummer. Degenerated? Dan, I'd like to introduce you to the FCC sometime. It was the FCC that turned the Technician license into your disdained entry level to present day "Ham Radio." I bet a lot of those out there don't know that the original Tech written was exactly the same as the General. The ONLY difference was the General had a 13 WPM cw test. Send and Receive. And the Tech had a 5wpm......and was available by mail. Dan/W4NTI Thanks for the insight into the "Mind of Dan." |
"bb" wrote in message oups.com... Dan/W4NTI wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Dee Flint wrote: I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)? It's Techs being Techs again, they're too busy "advancing the state of the art" to be bothered with learning the code and contesting. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE w3rv BWAHHHHHHHHH....we both know the "Tech" license stopped being technical in nature way back in the early 60s. Dan, I've never seen you advocating "Truth in Licensing." Have you said as much to the FCC in any of your NPRM comments? And MOST VHF/UHF contesting is done in SSB mode. Dan/W4NTI If most of the VHF/UHF Contestors are Extra's as Dee says, why isn't CW used most often? No I have not commented on anything with the FCC other than BPL and sending in reports about K1MAN. I figured out a long time ago the FCC was basically a lap dog of the ARRL when it comes to dumbing down of the license structure. And my pitiful input wasn't going to have any affect at all. So "bb".....does that blow your mind, or what? Dan/W4NTI |
Dan/W4NTI wrote: "bb" wrote in message oups.com... Dee Flint wrote: I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)? Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Dee, I'm going to guess (i.e., don't ask me for facts, figures, substantive studies, reports from the FCC/ARRL, etc) that of the Techs that have stayed in amateur radio, most have done so for the emergency communications aspect of the service. As such, they would typically stay on FM. The ones who could learn Morse Code and have had to time to do so have moved up. Those who didn't have the time or couldn't learn it have moved on. It's nice to see Miss Manners finally noticing something amiss in the ARS. "bb" is just full of all sorts of assumptions, ain't he boys and girls? Using his logic then all us "higher" class operators need to get out of EMCOM, eh? I'll be sure to tell the Extra class Emergency Net Control operator next time I see her. Dan/W4NTI Dan, you're welcome to tell her anything you want. She's probably already aware that you usually get it wrong anyway. |
"Dave Heil" wrote in message ink.net... bb wrote: Dan/W4NTI wrote: wrote in message egroups.com... Dee Flint wrote: I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)? It's Techs being Techs again, they're too busy "advancing the state of the art" to be bothered with learning the code and contesting. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE w3rv BWAHHHHHHHHH....we both know the "Tech" license stopped being technical in nature way back in the early 60s. Dan, I've never seen you advocating "Truth in Licensing." Have you said as much to the FCC in any of your NPRM comments? And MOST VHF/UHF contesting is done in SSB mode. Dan/W4NTI If most of the VHF/UHF Contestors are Extra's as Dee says, why isn't CW used most often? It is used, "bb", but ops are attempting to maximize score by working everyone, even those not using CW. I switch modes quite often during the course of a VHF/UHF contest. During heavy aurora, CW works much better than SSB. I'd have thought you'd have already known it. Dave K8MN Correct.....in fact I see CW activity INCREASING on VHF. At least 6 meters, which is all I have running, right now. Years ago it was nearly impossible to get a CW contact on VHF. In fact a lot of rigs, homebrew and/or commercial didn't even have a key jack in them. I like seeing CW on VHF. I do like everyone else does, if their trying to maximize QSO's, contest or otherwise. Both modes. Dan/W4NTI |
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