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Dan/W4NTI wrote: "bb" wrote in message ups.com... Dan/W4NTI wrote: "bb" wrote in message oups.com... Dee Flint wrote: I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)? Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Dee, I'm going to guess (i.e., don't ask me for facts, figures, substantive studies, reports from the FCC/ARRL, etc) that of the Techs that have stayed in amateur radio, most have done so for the emergency communications aspect of the service. As such, they would typically stay on FM. The ones who could learn Morse Code and have had to time to do so have moved up. Those who didn't have the time or couldn't learn it have moved on. It's nice to see Miss Manners finally noticing something amiss in the ARS. "bb" is just full of all sorts of assumptions, ain't he boys and girls? Using his logic then all us "higher" class operators need to get out of EMCOM, eh? I'll be sure to tell the Extra class Emergency Net Control operator next time I see her. Dan/W4NTI Dan, you're welcome to tell her anything you want. She's probably already aware that you usually get it wrong anyway. Do you have trouble chewing gum and walking Bryan? I don't chew gum. I don't smoke, either. Did you have a point? |
From: "bb" on Sun 19 Jun 2005 15:2
wrote: From: "bb" on Sun 19 Jun 2005 08:50 wrote: From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Sun 19 Jun 2005 00:07 "bb" wrote in message You sir, are nothing but a agitator and a disgrace to ham radio in general, assuming you have a license that is. Godwin invoked. [ :-) ] Attitude-wise, Dan = Stebie. It's a NEW "Godwin" observation in here. Whenever someone goes against the league-published grain of the olde-tyme hammes, they are immediately labeled "slamming ham radio" or, in Danterms, "agitator and disgrace." :-) Them olde-fahrt morsemen gotta have...: ALL shall march to the same drummer, in ranks, with one voice counting cadence as taught in the Church of St. Hiram. NONE shall speak against the Elite, the PCTA Extras. ONE "service," all wearing the same "uniform." Totalitarian. March, march, beep, beep... Dan and Dave and the remaining living PCTAs haven't much changed since '98 in here. They command a consensus of common thought; i.e., CONCEDE to THEIR consensus, none others. You can have any opinion you like as long as it's theirs. Henry Ford invoked! ["you can have any car color you want as long as it is black"] Same thing in this "newsgroup" I guess. :-) I see there's a Jim Miccolis N2EY posting below. I haven't gotten to it yet, as I'm saving the best for last. Hope he doesn't disappoint as he has ever since he made the comment, "A Morse Exam would be a barrier to CW use." Oh, oh...dat put Sister Nun of the Above into ruler-spank mode again. She demand posting quote of where, when she make dat. Dis be court of law! Bang da gavel, heah come de judge, heah come de judge... I think, after she stated that ALL exams are arbitrary, that she decided to duck and run. Apparently, none of the PCTA heard her remark, which included the Morse/Farnsworth exam. Right now she's zagging across the lawn in Newington, looking for sanctuary. Heh, I think I'd rather watch a DVD of "Logan's Run." :-) Jimmie can't bear to acknowledge that the current percentage of Technician and Technican Plus class licensees are now at 48.4 percent of all individual (non-club) licensees in the USA. Jimmie has to rationalize that with all sorts of rather irrelevant "excuses" common to the Elitist PCTA viewpoint of all those commonfolk not embracing morsemanship with loving open arms. Jim is somewhat frail. He's much better off not thinking about it. The beginning of the end... Tsk, since Jimmie became "tollmaster" in here, he ought to get up a Pool on when the two Tech class license totals reach 50%! Should be less than a year from now the way I see it. :-) "Jes tellin' da truth an' they cain't stand it!" [Danism] ARS (aka Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society) is in full flower in here, their self-appointed self-righteous "representatives" damning all who do not respect their mighty elitist rule. The ARS only has "fun" when all licensees do as the Elites do, that is, doing narrowband morse beeping. And one keeps asking me where the Techs have gone. Hi! They haven't gone to the "lower part of the bands" (on HF). Olde-fahrt morsemen ought to be very happy. :-) They aren't. Still so ANGRY! The LAW is the LAW and NO LAWS CAN EVER BE CHANGED according to these "guardians of amateur paradise." Code test MUST remain. PCTA say so. No arguments against. Period. [sigh...] There must still be some of them working for the FCC. Must be. Or FCC cares so little about amateur radio that they aren't doing anything about those 18 Petitions. No sign of reaching a decision on which or what. Happy Father's Day to you, Brian. And to you, Len. Thank you. Maybe next year it might be (for me) "great-grand" instead of just "grand." :-) Watch for responses to THAT little gem! :-) Davie gonna chime in with "all those years you said you were 'interested' in radio you never got a ham license!" Tsk, tsk, Too bad I got a commercial ticket and then went into the electronics industry, huh? :-) Sister Nun of the Above gonna try some ruler-spank on that, too, lotsa stuff about "how many children I parented." Sister NOT say how many he have parented...will ignore and try misdirection to avoid answering. Lotsa fun wid dese PCTA Extra folk allatime "sitting in judgement" and hollering "order in da court!" :-) "Book 'em, Danno!" beep, beep |
From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Sun 19 Jun 2005 22:36
"bb" wrote in message oups.com... Dan/W4NTI wrote: "Dave Heil" wrote in message Indeed it does. David has articulated, and Dan has agreed that a Tech really isn't worth much as an amateur if they don't do the things that Dave, Dan and Dee want them to be doing. I'm sure that your attitudes spill over into your communication with those unworthy Techs. Not only a Dip****, but a dumbass as well, eh N0IMD? Just keep making up what you want. The FCC wants the Technician to UPGRADE. So do we......whats wrong with that? Dip****/Dumbass Plenty WRONG, "dip**** dumbass Dan." FCC did NOT "want anyone" to do anything but obey the law. Here's a clue, you southern-fried Einstein: FCC is NOT in ANY position to endorse or motivate any radio amateur. They aren't charterd by Congress to do so. "Wanting anyone to upgrade" is a subject for clubs and private organizations. Mostly that means the ARRL. Here's another clue: The ARRL does NOT regulate U.S. amateur radio...regardless of what they infer. Sunnuvagun! [thank you Hans for originating that into the mainstream of American colloquialisms over a century or so back... :-) ] Thanks for the insight into the "Mind of Dan." Just tellin the truth and you cain't stand it. Tsk, dip**** dumbass Dan, the southern-fried Einstein (wannabe). Good luck with that now... |
From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Sun 19 Jun 2005 22:46
"Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... Some folks back then wanted the General but settled for a tech license when they couldn't pass muster at 13. Unfortunately, if you got on the air (back when, 2 meters was the novice voice band to try and get more activity on 2 meters!) it was possible to *never* work on the code and you were stuck as a tech. Most likely 6 meters was the band of choice as the best front ends might have had a 4.5 dB noise figure on 440 MHz. Even 2 meters wasn't all that busy; Heathkit sixers and twoers were the rigs of the day. I really wan't familiar with any territory above 30 MHz back then. When is "back then?" And how can an LOS path be "busy" in a non-urban area? Picture sitting around waiting for ducting or temperature inversion to reach out beyond 30 to 40 miles... The other choice was to work on your code. The novice license was issued for one year and was not renewable. I took this choice and it took me a while to get my code speed up. When I did take the test and pass 13, I was good for about 18 (which helps when you're nervous and travel 60 miles to take the test administered by the FCC, not a VEC). So? I traveled 90 miles by train to the Chicago FCC office for my First 'Phone test. No snow and I kept my shoes on all the way. Of course, there were those that were only interested in VHF and above. The Army's Project Diana proved the feasibility of moonbounce right after WW2. 70 to 90 MHz and 250 MHz VHF radio relay was already operational at that time and capable of working 24/7. Aircraft radios were already up in VHF via the SCR-522 and the last versions of the ARC-5 sets. Many, many VHF radios for vehicular mobile were working away, first for the military during WW2 and a few police departments before WW2...FM of course. TV broadcast had already begun right after WW2 on VHF and production was beginning to ramp up for the virtual explosion in set making for ordinary consumers. AT&T was planning the microwave links that would span the country and making the prototypes in the lab. FM broadcast had already started on low VHF and was reassigned at double the frequency after WW2. Consumers could get "AM/FM" table model radios off the shelf. Raytheon near Santa Barbara, CA, was testing something new called a "Radarange" that would shortly afterwards evolve into a microwave oven...and would be sold entire (big mistake financially) to Amana. All that taking place in the latter half of the 1940s. USA amateur radio was all about "working DX on HF with CW" at the same time...real "radio pioneering." Read all about it in library copies of QST. Moonbounce was just starting to happen and dx records at 1.2 GHz and above were likely measured in miles. Not many. A very low noise pre-amp on 440 MHz probably had a 4.5 dB noise figure. Once you headed into microwaves, you simply had a diode mixer front end and not only noise, but signal loss as well. Not at all like today. Most vacuum tubes had interelectrode capacitances and delays in getting electrons across the void that prohibited most from operation much above 500 MHz. There were lighthouse tubes, travelling wave tubes, and others (I had a couple of gizmos that looked like Sputnik. I never knew what they were intended for LOL). Vacuum tube transit time was an already known phenomenon prior to WW2. A magnetron was a vacuum diode...it's path from cathode to plate(s) was MUCH longer than a wavelength at 10 GHz yet it worked quite well at high-KW power levels. TWTs were a post-WW2 innovation and were already flying in the McDonnell "Quail" decoy missles in 1958. GE and others were already using inverted lighthouse 2C39s at 1.8 GHz in 1953 for multichannel radio relay. Funny thing is that if you do get to a reasonable level of code proficiency (as required by the General class and above back when) there was yet another danger: you just might enjoy it :)) The olde-fahrts in ham radio had already decreed that amateurs had to begin as they did in the 20s and 30s...working to make sure the rules would make all newcomers do AS THEY HAD TO DO. "Excellence" in ham radio of the 40s and 50s was radiotelegraphy on HF...as it is a half century later. [olde-fahrts breed other olde-fahrts in some strange twist on perverse Darwinism] Communications carriers were ALREADY ESTABLISHED on HF prior to WW2, including SSB (but at a wider format of 12 KHz BW for SSB). The Solar cycle was known as was the ionosphere (courtesy of the academics, not the amateurs) and all that remained post-WW2 was to study more intimate details of the ionospheric layers...which was mapped by commercially-made ionospheric sounders. Returning veterans were busy at the Legion Halls, telling stories of radio derring-do "during the WAR" with CW saving the day, etc. The more alcohol intake, the greater their telegraphic "heroism" became. Pretty soon they were all "sending intel from behind enemy lines with CW" until tossed out of the Hall at closing. That dip****ness kept on with some all the way to 1991, including one in here whose "son did that in the first Gulf War." BS. Yep indeed....it was "up or out". Novice good for 1 year, non renewable and can't get it again. Talk about incentive licensing. INCENTIVE! WORK HARD! SHOW DEDICATION AND COMMITTMENT TO THE AMATEUR COMMUNITY!!! For WHAT? A HOBBY? A recreation? A passtime? Prior to 1956 ANYONE could go to an FCC Field Office and take a First Class exam for a COMMERCIAL license for WORK. None of that hoop-jumping of union-enforced "skill levels" and "going through the ranks" bull****. For money-paying WORK. No, the HOBBY rules HAD to be like some union hall or guild or craftsmanlike apprentice-journeyman-master with CW being the ultimate "skill." A bunch of olde-fahrt-inspired "rules" of PRETENSE AT EXPERTISE AS IF THEY WERE "AT WORK." Hobbyists, making like they were pros. Make-believe. A very good friend mine, Ray, K8DEN recently passed away. I am so happy he finally was able to get on HF. Thats right as a 5wpm General. He was like you said, just could NOT learn the code. Whether physical or mental I don't know. Sorry, that's NOT GOOD ENOUGH. In order to DEDICATION AND COMMITTMENT TO THE AMATEUR COMMUNITY AND THE "SERVICE" one *MUST* show morsemanship of high rates. According to all these "radio experts" in hamdom, ANYONE CAN LEARN THE CODE! WORK HARD FOR A HOBBY! Make CW your prime committment in life! Radiotelegraphy is EVERYTHING in amateur radio!!! ...then was tough. But it was fun. I had it both ways. [we aren't interested in your early sex life...] It is much easier for the beginning ham now than it was for us Jim. Perhaps it is too easy and that is the problem. AWWWWWWW...... Poor babies...you WORKED SO HARD, ALL THE EFFORT, SWEAT, STRAIN, STRESS and now nobody respects your mighty accomplishments of overcoming pre-WW2 standards and practices in a HOBBY RADIO!!! I can wear out my ticket punch on all your TS cards, southern- fried Einstein, but I'll toss 'em right back in your florid face. Fifty-two years ago I and two other newbies got one afternoon's "schooling" on QSYing a 1 KW HF transmitter. Do this, do that, all without having done it before. See MSgt Ouye for manuals on "how it works." One HF transmitter out of three dozen ranging up to 15 KW at that time (bigger ones to come). 24/7 operation for a headquarters command, the Korean War still going. We all learned that and more, did our thing. No stories, no phony braggart herioism. This was WORK. Wanna be better? OK, just grab a TM and study. Nobody gets neat certificates suitable for framing, no "high scores" in "contests," no "personal callsigns" to make out like we were "big shots." We just kept the messages going through. 24/7 on HF. OH! how "tough" you AMATEURS had it! How you must have suffered! Nobody worked as hard for a HOBBY as you mighty morsemen did! Have you considered Grief Counseling, mighty troubled warrior of the AMATEUR airwaves? |
From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Sun 19 Jun 2005 22:53
wrote in message oups.com... From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Sun 19 Jun 2005 00:07 "bb" wrote in message You sir, are nothing but a agitator and a disgrace to ham radio in general, assuming you have a license that is. Godwin invoked. [ :-) ] Attitude-wise, Dan = Stebie. ALL shall march to the same drummer, in ranks, with one voice counting cadence as taught in the Church of St. Hiram. NONE shall speak against the Elite, the PCTA Extras. ONE "service," all wearing the same "uniform." Totalitarian. Hey Lennie....did that beating you took with the lye soap leave any permanent scars? No "beating," no "lye soap," no "scars," you southern-fried dumbass dip****. I never ever suffered something that YOU must have gone through. I've figured this guy out folks. He was a barracks lawyer that got caught up in several barracks parties. A total loser. "Loser?" In what? I was in Signal, not Judge Advocate Corps. A long time ago. Radio communications for a major area command. Began that as an E-2 no-striper, ended it as an E-5 with three up and one down after three years in last assignment. Half a century ago. Never had to learn/use radiotelegraphy then or since in a career in electronics design...nor in electronics AND radio as a hobby activity. What am I a "loser" IN, southern-fried dumbass dip**** Dan? I've got an education via formal schooling and self-study, money in the bank, house(s) long-ago all paid off, a brand-new car in the garage since Friday (all paid off fully this Monday) and am happily married to my high school sweetheart. Oh, yeah...I'm a "loser" because I don't "respect" and "honor" your amateur radio ethos and mythology about morsemanship? I'm a "loser" because I won't sit back and take your FILTHY comments when you act all "tuff" in words? It's absurdly easy to call others all sorts of filthy names like "dip****," "dumbass," "putz" and other things. Maybe that's it...I'll have to get all "manly" and start calling others names? I'm a "loser" because I was interested in ALL radio and did NOT get a ham license first as I "was supposed to?" Must be. I "cheated" and got a COMMERCIAL license FIRST and then went to WORK in the aerospace industry. Yeah, a "loser" because I don't worship at the Church of St. Hiram and tell tales down at the Hall about radio heroism in southern Asia, a war that ENDED THIRTY YEARS AGO. Yeah, I'm a "loser" because I don't kiss your extra ass and give you TLC when you make all your sob stories about "how tough YOU had it" long ago...? Is that it? Oh yeah, I'm a "loser" because I just want the government to eliminate the code test for a HOBBY radio license...and watch all those PCTA extra "winners" sit here and call the NCTAs lots of filthy names and make up stories about what I "did." Dip**** Dan, ordinarily I'd tell you to just "go to hell." I don't need to. You've made it there on your own. Enjoy. |
bb Jun 19, 10:51 pm show options
Dan/W4NTI wrote: "bb" wrote in message ups.com... Dan/W4NTI wrote: "bb" wrote in message oups.com... It's nice to see Miss Manners finally noticing something amiss n the ARS. "bb" is just full of all sorts of assumptions, ain't he boys and girls? Using his logic then all us "higher" class operators need to get out of EMCOM, eh? I'll be sure to tell the Extra class Emergency Net Control operator next time I see her. Dan/W4NTI Dan, you're welcome to tell her anything you want. She's probably already aware that you usually get it wrong anyway. Do you have trouble chewing gum and walking Bryan? I don't chew gum. I don't smoke, either. Did you have a point? Probably on his head... |
wrote in message oups.com... From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Sun 19 Jun 2005 22:53 wrote in message oups.com... From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Sun 19 Jun 2005 00:07 "bb" wrote in message You sir, are nothing but a agitator and a disgrace to ham radio in general, assuming you have a license that is. Godwin invoked. [ :-) ] Attitude-wise, Dan = Stebie. ALL shall march to the same drummer, in ranks, with one voice counting cadence as taught in the Church of St. Hiram. NONE shall speak against the Elite, the PCTA Extras. ONE "service," all wearing the same "uniform." Totalitarian. Hey Lennie....did that beating you took with the lye soap leave any permanent scars? No "beating," no "lye soap," no "scars," you southern-fried dumbass dip****. I never ever suffered something that YOU must have gone through. I've figured this guy out folks. He was a barracks lawyer that got caught up in several barracks parties. A total loser. "Loser?" In what? I was in Signal, not Judge Advocate Corps. A long time ago. Radio communications for a major area command. Began that as an E-2 no-striper, ended it as an E-5 with three up and one down after three years in last assignment. Half a century ago. Lennie's angry tirade snipped... My, my, Lennie. You are obviously, as evidenced by your tantrum, much more capable of handing out insults than you are at receiving them. What ever is the matter, Lennie? Did big, mean and nasty old Southern Fried Dan, as you put it, hit a soft spot on Poor Lennie's overly inflated cranium? Three up and one down? An E-5?? In whose Army? My, my. That big, nasty old Dan sure got you riled! WAY TO GO, DAN!!!! |
Dee Flint wrote:
All the licensing requirements are arbitrary. Every single one of them. I would use the phrase "only based on FCC's judgement and experience" rather than "arbitrary", but that's a minor point. Otherwise agree 100%. Not only that, but many if not most of the rules are only based on FCC's judgement and experience too. For example, the maximum power an amateur station may use in the USA is 1500 W peak output. Why 1500 W - why not 1000 W, or 2000 W, or something else? Why not any power level that an amateur can put on the air and still meet RF exposure and spurious emission rules? Tthere are several radio services for which no testing is required. So if some services do not need testing, then it is arbitrary for those that do. However the goals and purposes of amateur radio make it desireable to test candidates for these licenses. And those goals and purposes are based on FCC's judgement and experience as well. FCC could, if they wanted, simply define amateur radio as "hobby radio", but they haven't done so. If you wish to discontinue healthy, legitimate discourse with respect to amateur policy, I understand. It is not for the faint of heart. Best of Luck, Brian The problem with the Morse discussion is that every possible conceivable argument on either side has been aired dozens, if not hundreds, of times. It is not healthy to continue discussing this policy issue. No new data comes to light. No new rational has come up. There's no point in rehashing the same issues. I disagree! There's always the possibility that some new idea, argument, or information will result from a discussion. Even the passage of time gives new insights. For example, the 2000 restructuring that reduced both code and written testing did not result in sustained growth of the number of US hams. We saw a small rise for a few years, but since April 2003 or so the numbers have been in a slow decline. This data clearly indicates that the license test requirements aren't the limiting factor to longterm growth. Sooner or later the FCC will rule and we'll all have to live with the consequences good or bad. Yep. But until they do, we can refine and develop our arguments on both sides. As for it being unhealthy to discuss, I'd say that as long as the discussion remains at a civil level, without misquotes and personal attacks, it's healthy. If the result is as the NCTA state that it will be, i.e. a big wave of new hams plus a big wave of hams upgrading and getting on HF, just watch the DX stations, especially the rare ones, hide down on CW even more than they are now. That's one big reason we have subbands-by-mode. If you exclude Japan, the US has more amateur radio operators than the rest of the world combined. If the bands get as busy as the NCTAs imply they will from this rush of new and upgrading hams, a lot of us will be drifting even more to CW just to find some room. Or the data modes. On the other hand, if the PCTAs are correct, i.e. the impact will be insignificant just as other changes of the recent past have been, then there is NO reason to change the requirements. Changes that have little to no noticeable impact aren't worth the bother of implementing. That's true. But there are other factors: - Reducing the license requirements still further may have negative effects. - If there's no real effect, the solution obviously lies elsewhere. But some may not want to accept that fact. - Once the requirements are reduced, it may be near-impossible to get them raised back up. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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bb wrote: wrote: For example, the maximum power an amateur station may use in the USA is 1500 W peak output. Why 1500 W - why not 1000 W, or 2000 W, or something else? Why not any power level that an amateur can put on the air and still meet RF exposure and spurious emission rules? Why are you telling us this, and not the FCC? He wasn't "telling" anything... They are interrogatives...Questions...Preceeded with "Why" and eneded with a question mark. There's always the possibility that some new idea, argument, or information will result from a discussion. Even the passage of time gives new insights. Ther's not if you continually avoid such discussions. So far, only you and Lennie are avoiding anything... For example, the 2000 restructuring that reduced both code and written testing did not result in sustained growth of the number of US hams. We saw a small rise for a few years, but since April 2003 or so the numbers have been in a slow decline. This data clearly indicates that the license test requirements aren't the limiting factor to longterm growth. Were the sunspots in decline during this period? Does it matter? I don't remember the FCC making a point of sunspot numbers in licensing requirements other than discussing propagation characteristics. Sooner or later the FCC will rule and we'll all have to live with the consequences good or bad. Yep. But until they do, we can refine and develop our arguments on both sides. Showing disdain for Technicians who cannot or choose not to learn The Code certainly tells a lot. How did you get "disdain" from that...?!?! As for it being unhealthy to discuss, I'd say that as long as the discussion remains at a civil level, without misquotes and personal attacks, it's healthy. Don't worry, be healthy. Good advice, Brian. Are you going to take it, or are you about to take us on yet another "...'they' chased all the Techs away.." story..?!?! If the result is as the NCTA state that it will be, i.e. a big wave of new hams plus a big wave of hams upgrading and getting on HF, just watch the DX stations, especially the rare ones, hide down on CW even more than they are now. That's one big reason we have subbands-by-mode. Wow, I never realized that. We have subbands-by-mode so that DX can hide from us. You, as usual, missed the point, Brian. Many of the "dx" operators do NOT have the means by which to obtain megabucks multimode/digital Amateur facilities. Jim is right. Civil discourse leads to new insights on arbitrarines and prejudices. Where did he say that, Brian...?!?! A quote, please, or is this yet another "I said it but I really didn't say it" dance? If you exclude Japan, the US has more amateur radio operators than the rest of the world combined. If the bands get as busy as the NCTAs imply they will from this rush of new and upgrading hams, a lot of us will be drifting even more to CW just to find some room. Or the data modes. No CW skill required for that. On the other hand, if the PCTAs are correct, i.e. the impact will be insignificant just as other changes of the recent past have been, then there is NO reason to change the requirements. Changes that have little to no noticeable impact aren't worth the bother of implementing. That's true. But there are other factors: - Reducing the license requirements still further may have negative effects. As it already has, right? The "requirements" (ie required knowledge) for an Amateur license are as steep as they've ever been...But when there's no real incentive to LEARN the material, of what use is it...?!?! - If there's no real effect, the solution obviously lies elsewhere. But some may not want to accept that fact. There may be a number of problems which must be addressed by a number of solutions. - Once the requirements are reduced, it may be near-impossible to get them raised back up. 73 de Jim, N2EY Arbitrariness should be easy enough to increase. That's what makes it arbitrary. In some other universe that made sense...But here...well, it just doesn't work. Steve, K4YZ |
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"Louis Tyler" Nospam@anon wrote in message ... wrote in message oups.com... From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Sun 19 Jun 2005 22:53 wrote in message roups.com... From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Sun 19 Jun 2005 00:07 "bb" wrote in message You sir, are nothing but a agitator and a disgrace to ham radio in general, assuming you have a license that is. Godwin invoked. [ :-) ] Attitude-wise, Dan = Stebie. ALL shall march to the same drummer, in ranks, with one voice counting cadence as taught in the Church of St. Hiram. NONE shall speak against the Elite, the PCTA Extras. ONE "service," all wearing the same "uniform." Totalitarian. Hey Lennie....did that beating you took with the lye soap leave any permanent scars? No "beating," no "lye soap," no "scars," you southern-fried dumbass dip****. I never ever suffered something that YOU must have gone through. I've figured this guy out folks. He was a barracks lawyer that got caught up in several barracks parties. A total loser. "Loser?" In what? I was in Signal, not Judge Advocate Corps. A long time ago. Radio communications for a major area command. Began that as an E-2 no-striper, ended it as an E-5 with three up and one down after three years in last assignment. Half a century ago. Lennie's angry tirade snipped... My, my, Lennie. You are obviously, as evidenced by your tantrum, much more capable of handing out insults than you are at receiving them. What ever is the matter, Lennie? Did big, mean and nasty old Southern Fried Dan, as you put it, hit a soft spot on Poor Lennie's overly inflated cranium? Three up and one down? An E-5?? In whose Army? My, my. That big, nasty old Dan sure got you riled! WAY TO GO, DAN!!!! Thank you, thank you. It is obvious that I was not the ONLY one to make note of that extra Chevron. Oh Lennie.....Chevron is a stripe. Dan/W4NTI |
From: "Dip**** Dumbass Dan/W4NTI" on Jun 20, 7:40 pm
Yep......he had his ass beat in a barracks party, more than one I am sure. Never happened. However, because of your insistence on that "subject" we can guess that it happened to YOU at least once. Is that how you got your military "disability?" Enjoy the hell you've made for yourself... |
From: "bb" on Tues 21 Jun 2005 03:15
wrote: From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Sun 19 Jun 2005 22:46 "Jim Hampton" wrote in message Some folks back then wanted the General but settled for a tech license when they couldn't pass muster at 13. Unfortunately, if you got on the air back when, 2 meters was the novice voice band to try and get more activity on 2 meters!) it was possible to *never* work on the code and you were stuck as a tech. Most likely 6 meters was the band of choice as the best front ends might have had a 4.5 dB noise figure on 440 MHz. Even 2 meters wasn't all that busy; Heathkit sixers and twoers were the rigs of the day. I really wan't familiar with any territory above 30 MHz back then. When is "back then?" And how can an LOS path be "busy" in a non-urban area? Picture sitting around waiting for ducting or temperature inversion to reach out beyond 30 to 40 miles... The twoers and sixers were rock-bound. Anyway, he said that he wasn't familiar with VHF. "Familiarity with VHF" wasn't needed. ALL that counted was getting the morse code speed UP...that yielded absolute knowledge of all theory thus guaranteeing rank-status-privilege. I designed and built an external VFO for a few Sixers. Worked fine. One of the recipients was showing an olde-fahrt extra how it operated and olde-fahrt said "Nice, did you build it?" "No," said my friend and, pointing to me, "He did." "THAT'S ILLEGAL!" shouted the olde-fahrt. Heh heh heh...the same anal attitudes existed four decades ago as they do now. The other choice was to work on your code. The novice license was issued for one year and was not renewable. I took this choice and it took me a while to get my code speed up. When I did take the test and pass 13, I was good for about 18 (which helps when you're nervous and travel 60 miles to take the test administered by the FCC, not a VEC). So? I traveled 90 miles by train to the Chicago FCC office for my First 'Phone test. No snow and I kept my shoes on all the way. Aha! Gotcha! You forgot to mention the changes in elevation over changes in distance!!! Heh heh heh. In northern Illinois the elevation changes amount to +/- a yard. Not even close to bragging rights... :-) However, to kill time waiting for the return train, I saw a matinee of "Oklahoma." Sat in the balcony, undisturbed. That was good for a change of a couple stories in height! :-) Too bad it was a sunny day in Chicago. No snow to brag to anyone ("uphill both ways through"). Passed no problem, even with the interruption of a fire drill in the Federal Building halfway through the test. [a lot of the anony-mousies won't know what we're talking about on this subject...they weren't here to see some of the astounding bragging going on by the late Dick Carroll and others in here] |
From: "bb" on Tues 21 Jun 2005 03:33
wrote: Dee Flint wrote: All the licensing requirements are arbitrary. Every single one of them. I would use the phrase "only based on FCC's judgement and experience" rather than "arbitrary", but that's a minor point. Otherwise agree 100%. Not only that, but many if not most of the rules are only based on FCC's judgement and experience too. Well there you have it. Right. The FCC has all the "judgement and EXPERIENCE" even though not a single staffer or Commissioner is required to have an amateur radio license! But here's an interesting point. If the FCC rules in favor of something about morse code, Jimmie will say it was due to the league or other amateur's comments...no credit is given to the FCC. If the FCC rules against morse code in any form, then it is the FCC's "fault" and they are to "blame." :-) For example, the maximum power an amateur station may use in the USA is 1500 W peak output. Why 1500 W - why not 1000 W, or 2000 W, or something else? Why not any power level that an amateur can put on the air and still meet RF exposure and spurious emission rules? Why are you telling us this, and not the FCC? Jimmie IS amateur radio! He is the Lawgiver... :-) Tthere are several radio services for which no testing is required. So if some services do not need testing, then it is arbitrary for those that do. However the goals and purposes of amateur radio make it desireable to test candidates for these licenses. And those goals and purposes are based on FCC's judgement and experience as well. FCC could, if they wanted, simply define amateur radio as "hobby radio", but they haven't done so. There we have it. Amateur radio is a HOBBY activity...but it isn't a hobby activity. :-) There's no such thing as "ham" radio in Part 97 but hams like to use that term almost to a man. Gotta love some of this "reasoning." :-) There's always the possibility that some new idea, argument, or information will result from a discussion. Even the passage of time gives new insights. Ther's not if you continually avoid such discussions. Avoidance and misdirection are a standard ploy of the PCTA extras. They seem to figure that stalling for time will be to their advantage. Like WRC-03 and the rewrite of S25 endorsed and promulgated by the IARU and opposed to by the ARRL. With more stalling of time and some adroit spin by the league the league will say that they no longer oppose that international change. :-) For example, the 2000 restructuring that reduced both code and written testing did not result in sustained growth of the number of US hams. We saw a small rise for a few years, but since April 2003 or so the numbers have been in a slow decline. This data clearly indicates that the license test requirements aren't the limiting factor to longterm growth. Were the sunspots in decline during this period? Jimmie seems to suffer "sunspots" of thinking. He gets his neurons ionized by all of us free radicals...! :-) The NUMBERS are unmistakable. Without the creation of the no-code-test Technician class in 1991, the total number of amateur radio licenses would have continued to DECLINE, "restructuring" or not. The number of Technician class licenses have kept on growing until no-code-test Techs are now 40+% of all U.S. amateur licensees! If there is a "slight decline" in ham numbers (there is), but the no-code-test Tech is markedly INCREASING (it is), then, arithmetically, the total of other classes are DECLINING (they are). Jimmie will probably, as he has in the past, go into some creative rationalizing of DENIAL on that, say "I'm wrong!" and the usual spin (trying to disguise the denial). :-) [that's very predictable] I'm not a part of either growth or decline, just observing the numbers as they change...and he will say I am "wrong," "mistaken," or other equivalent phrases. Jimmie will look around at his immediate "ham neighborhood" and see little change...he gets his ham magazines regularly, hears the beep-beeping every time he turns on his ham receiver...and sees "no change," his little ham world is still intact, no problem. Regretably for the hobby, the ARRL is only RECENTLY starting to realize all those NUMBERS! They aren't attracting the (now) 40% of all licensees as they once expected they would. ARRL membership has declined. Olde-fahrt morsemen hams don't much seem to give a ****. [Hans Brakob seems a rare exception] They strut around, posturing and preening, babbling about "good old days" and emptying their mental chamber pots on the "lesser classes." Sooner or later the FCC will rule and we'll all have to live with the consequences good or bad. Yep. But until they do, we can refine and develop our arguments on both sides. Showing disdain for Technicians who cannot or choose not to learn The Code certainly tells a lot. It tells a very BAD tale. But, they ARE the self-righteous, self-promoted "superiors" who seem to feel they "control" it all and have some "qualifications" for disdaining those "lesser" folk. But, they cannot be convinced they are hurting the hobby. They RULE it in their minds. As for it being unhealthy to discuss, I'd say that as long as the discussion remains at a civil level, without misquotes and personal attacks, it's healthy. Don't worry, be healthy. Jimmie gonna HAVE to concede that he is NOT the voice of amateur radio. In here. He be only ONE individual licensee. If the result is as the NCTA state that it will be, i.e. a big wave of new hams plus a big wave of hams upgrading and getting on HF, just watch the DX stations, especially the rare ones, hide down on CW even more than they are now. That's one big reason we have subbands-by-mode. Wow, I never realized that. We have subbands-by-mode so that DX can hide from us. Jim is right. Civil discourse leads to new insights on arbitrarines and prejudices. Well, adding new fresh blood to the hobby will just upset the hell out of the Elite RF Territory of these extra homies. Their "work DX with CW on HF" sandbox is going to be invaded? If you exclude Japan, the US has more amateur radio operators than the rest of the world combined. If the bands get as busy as the NCTAs imply they will from this rush of new and upgrading hams, a lot of us will be drifting even more to CW just to find some room. Or the data modes. No CW skill required for that. Operating ANYWHERE below 30 MHz REQUIRES morse code testing! That's the LAW!!! On the other hand, if the PCTAs are correct, i.e. the impact will be insignificant just as other changes of the recent past have been, then there is NO reason to change the requirements. Changes that have little to no noticeable impact aren't worth the bother of implementing. That's true. But there are other factors: - Reducing the license requirements still further may have negative effects. As it already has, right? The HF sandbox is in DANGER, Will Robinson! - If there's no real effect, the solution obviously lies elsewhere. But some may not want to accept that fact. There may be a number of problems which must be addressed by a number of solutions. Damn, Brian, you're getting GOOD at this Truthspeak! :-) Careful, you are beginning to phrase just like them PCTA extras! - Once the requirements are reduced, it may be near-impossible to get them raised back up. 73 de Jim, N2EY Arbitrariness should be easy enough to increase. That's what makes it arbitrary. FCC needs to hire an Arbitrator? :-) |
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wrote: From: "bb" on Tues 21 Jun 2005 03:15 wrote: From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Sun 19 Jun 2005 22:46 "Jim Hampton" wrote in message Some folks back then wanted the General but settled for a tech license when they couldn't pass muster at 13. Unfortunately, if you got on the air back when, 2 meters was the novice voice band to try and get more activity on 2 meters!) it was possible to *never* work on the code and you were stuck as a tech. Most likely 6 meters was the band of choice as the best front ends might have had a 4.5 dB noise figure on 440 MHz. Even 2 meters wasn't all that busy; Heathkit sixers and twoers were the rigs of the day. I really wan't familiar with any territory above 30 MHz back then. When is "back then?" And how can an LOS path be "busy" in a non-urban area? Picture sitting around waiting for ducting or temperature inversion to reach out beyond 30 to 40 miles... The twoers and sixers were rock-bound. Anyway, he said that he wasn't familiar with VHF. "Familiarity with VHF" wasn't needed. ALL that counted was getting the morse code speed UP...that yielded absolute knowledge of all theory thus guaranteeing rank-status-privilege. We're trying to change that, all in vain. Only the actuarial tables bring about change in the ARS. I designed and built an external VFO for a few Sixers. Worked fine. One of the recipients was showing an olde-fahrt extra how it operated and olde-fahrt said "Nice, did you build it?" "No," said my friend and, pointing to me, "He did." "THAT'S ILLEGAL!" shouted the olde-fahrt. Heh heh heh...the same anal attitudes existed four decades ago as they do now. In RRAP, we have the uniformed, and the uninformed! The other choice was to work on your code. The novice license was issued for one year and was not renewable. I took this choice and it took me a while to get my code speed up. When I did take the test and pass 13, I was good for about 18 (which helps when you're nervous and travel 60 miles to take the test administered by the FCC, not a VEC). So? I traveled 90 miles by train to the Chicago FCC office for my First 'Phone test. No snow and I kept my shoes on all the way. Aha! Gotcha! You forgot to mention the changes in elevation over changes in distance!!! Heh heh heh. In northern Illinois the elevation changes amount to +/- a yard. Not even close to bragging rights... :-) Darnit!!! We're supposed to hear about how it was uphill both ways juss like the real hammes claim. However, to kill time waiting for the return train, I saw a matinee of "Oklahoma." Sat in the balcony, undisturbed. That was good for a change of a couple stories in height! :-) Did you try a "balcony" antenna while there? Too bad it was a sunny day in Chicago. No snow to brag to anyone ("uphill both ways through"). Passed no problem, even with the interruption of a fire drill in the Federal Building halfway through the test. No real hamme could have survived that. [a lot of the anony-mousies won't know what we're talking about on this subject...they weren't here to see some of the astounding bragging going on by the late Dick Carroll and others in here] Dick was not unique unto himself. There are plenty of Dick imposters in the ARS. |
K4YZ wrote: wrote: From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Sun 19 Jun 2005 22:53 Hey Lennie....did that beating you took with the lye soap leave any permanent scars? No "beating," no "lye soap," no "scars," you southern-fried dumb### dip####. Whoa! We got profanity, abuse AND bigotry all in one sentence! Way to go Lennie! Yet PCTA Larry Roll/K3LT's ubiquitous use of "persons with a southern accent" was perfectly acceptable. And Dan's initial use of profanity in an otherwise civil debate on amateur radio policy issues is not a problem. Oh, the PCTA double-standard! When will it end? Where will it end? |
Dan/W4NTI wrote: "bb" wrote in message oups.com... I was told, when Novice Enhancement came along, not to pick up a microphone because I would never get good at the Morse Code and advance. That was good advice. I did the same thing. I had my Novice for 3 months, skipped the Technician, and got the General. I could have got on 2m AM as a Novice. I had a Gonset II on load from Civil Defense. I flat refused to do so until I got the General. Glad I did. Dan/W4NTI Perhaps it was good advise in your case. I tested for General. The Morse Code sped by at an incredible rate, and I did not pass. In retrospect, this must have been the diff between Morse Code and the advent of the ARRL VEC use of the Farnsworth Code. Anyway, the consolation prize was the Technician license. The Novice enhancement came later, so was not a player. |
"bb" wrote in message oups.com... K4YZ wrote: wrote: From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Sun 19 Jun 2005 22:53 Hey Lennie....did that beating you took with the lye soap leave any permanent scars? No "beating," no "lye soap," no "scars," you southern-fried dumb### dip####. Whoa! We got profanity, abuse AND bigotry all in one sentence! Way to go Lennie! Yet PCTA Larry Roll/K3LT's ubiquitous use of "persons with a southern accent" was perfectly acceptable. And Dan's initial use of profanity in an otherwise civil debate on amateur radio policy issues is not a problem. Oh, the PCTA double-standard! When will it end? Where will it end? Dip**** and Dumbass is a commonly used term in the US Military. I don't consider it profane, if you do.....tuff. Dan/W4NTI |
K4YZ wrote: bb wrote: wrote: For example, the maximum power an amateur station may use in the USA is 1500 W peak output. Why 1500 W - why not 1000 W, or 2000 W, or something else? Why not any power level that an amateur can put on the air and still meet RF exposure and spurious emission rules? Why are you telling us this, and not the FCC? He wasn't "telling" anything... I see it differently. They are interrogatives...Questions...Preceeded with "Why" and eneded with a question mark. So why are you nuts? There's always the possibility that some new idea, argument, or information will result from a discussion. Even the passage of time gives new insights. Ther's not if you continually avoid such discussions. So far, only you and Lennie are avoiding anything... We're avoiding your incessant explanations of your claims of seven (7) hostile actions. Hi! (inside joke) For example, the 2000 restructuring that reduced both code and written testing did not result in sustained growth of the number of US hams. We saw a small rise for a few years, but since April 2003 or so the numbers have been in a slow decline. This data clearly indicates that the license test requirements aren't the limiting factor to longterm growth. Were the sunspots in decline during this period? Does it matter? Why wouldn't it? I don't remember the FCC making a point of sunspot numbers in licensing requirements other than discussing propagation characteristics. Hint: they're making a point of it. Sooner or later the FCC will rule and we'll all have to live with the consequences good or bad. Yep. But until they do, we can refine and develop our arguments on both sides. Showing disdain for Technicians who cannot or choose not to learn The Code certainly tells a lot. How did you get "disdain" from that...?!?! Other posts. You find them. Best of Luck. As for it being unhealthy to discuss, I'd say that as long as the discussion remains at a civil level, without misquotes and personal attacks, it's healthy. Don't worry, be healthy. Good advice, Brian. Good advice for you, too. That's why I gave it. Are you going to take it, or are you about to take us on yet another "...'they' chased all the Techs away.." story..?!?! The attitudes of Dee, Dan, and Dave certainly give insight into such stories. If the result is as the NCTA state that it will be, i.e. a big wave of new hams plus a big wave of hams upgrading and getting on HF, just watch the DX stations, especially the rare ones, hide down on CW even more than they are now. That's one big reason we have subbands-by-mode. Wow, I never realized that. We have subbands-by-mode so that DX can hide from us. You, as usual, missed the point, Brian. That was precisely the point that N2EY made. What part of it didn't you understand? Many of the "dx" operators do NOT have the means by which to obtain megabucks multimode/digital Amateur facilities. How can they "hide down on CW EVEN MORE THAN THEY ARE NOW" possible if they don't now have other modes available??? Idiot! And I don't recall David Heil K8MN as RARE DX hiding "down on CW in downtown Dar El Salaam" to avoid calls on SSB from out-of-band Frenchmen on 6 Meters!!! He went for it!!! Jim is right. Civil discourse leads to new insights on arbitrarines and prejudices. Where did he say that, Brian...?!?! A quote, please, or is this yet another "I said it but I really didn't say it" dance? "Jim said it but really didn't say it" If you exclude Japan, the US has more amateur radio operators than the rest of the world combined. If the bands get as busy as the NCTAs imply they will from this rush of new and upgrading hams, a lot of us will be drifting even more to CW just to find some room. Or the data modes. No CW skill required for that. No CW skills required for that. And why would we "exclude" Japan? On the other hand, if the PCTAs are correct, i.e. the impact will be insignificant just as other changes of the recent past have been, then there is NO reason to change the requirements. Changes that have little to no noticeable impact aren't worth the bother of implementing. That's true. But there are other factors: - Reducing the license requirements still further may have negative effects. As it already has, right? The "requirements" (ie required knowledge) for an Amateur license are as steep as they've ever been...But when there's no real incentive to LEARN the material, of what use is it...?!?! So make it even steeper. Make them bleed. - If there's no real effect, the solution obviously lies elsewhere. But some may not want to accept that fact. There may be a number of problems which must be addressed by a number of solutions. - Once the requirements are reduced, it may be near-impossible to get them raised back up. 73 de Jim, N2EY Arbitrariness should be easy enough to increase. That's what makes it arbitrary. In some other universe that made sense...But here...well, it just doesn't work. Obviously, you don't understand the concept of arbitrariness. N2EY has it down to an Art! And you have it down to a dumb shrug and a question mark! Let's face it square on. You're just N2EY's unwitting, unintelligent little hatchet man. Steve, K4YZ |
wrote in message oups.com... From: "Dip**** Dumbass Dan/W4NTI" on Jun 20, 7:40 pm Yep......he had his ass beat in a barracks party, more than one I am sure. Never happened. However, because of your insistence on that "subject" we can guess that it happened to YOU at least once. Is that how you got your military "disability?" Enjoy the hell you've made for yourself... I thought you weren't interested in what my disability was. Oh I remember you made an attempt to belittle it. That is expected from you. So now you are showing your true colors, eh Loser Len? I eventually get my "enemies" to show their true colors. You have the record BTW. Takes most of the goofs a lot longer to lower themselves to this level. Unlike you Loser Len I have real combat time. You on the other hand are caught in your lies. Shall we continue to elaborate or will you just simply crawl back under your wanabee chairbourn ranger chair? Dan/W4NTI |
wrote: bb Jun 19, 10:51 pm show options Dan/W4NTI wrote: "bb" wrote in message ups.com... Dan/W4NTI wrote: "bb" wrote in message oups.com... It's nice to see Miss Manners finally noticing something amiss n the ARS. "bb" is just full of all sorts of assumptions, ain't he boys and girls? Using his logic then all us "higher" class operators need to get out of EMCOM, eh? I'll be sure to tell the Extra class Emergency Net Control operator next time I see her. Dan/W4NTI Dan, you're welcome to tell her anything you want. She's probably already aware that you usually get it wrong anyway. Do you have trouble chewing gum and walking Bryan? I don't chew gum. I don't smoke, either. Did you have a point? Probably on his head... He should have it biopsied. Save him an early date with the actuarial tables. |
Mike Coslo wrote: wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: wrote: Bill Turner wrote: On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 22:53:51 GMT, "K=D8HB" wrote: Let's go beyond the SO1R/SO2R question and look at the bigger picture. OK I think it's time to revise the basic structure of contest competition. Contesting hardware has evolved to the point that one must spend a small fortune to be competitive, and I think that is hurting contesting itself. That depends on what you mean by "competitive" and "a small fortune". I don't agree with the basic premise, Jim. The operator is a lot more important than the equipment. To a point, yes. But the guy with 100 W and a dipole at 40 feet isn't going to win CQWW or even SS no matter how good he is. He's not even going to make Top Ten. That doesn't mean he can't do well, just that winning is a different game. Who do ya want - a impatient knob twiddler with a FTDX 9000 and an antenna farm of (insert your favorite antenna here), or a good capable contester with say a dipole and an IC-746. What we want is a seperate transmiter and receiver. Make it a Collins. For some hams, "competitive" means winning outright, or at least making the Top Ten. For others, "competitive" means winning their section, or maybe division, or maybe getting into the top ten of same. And for others it's simply doing better than last year. And if they keep it up, they will eventually become the top dogs. But there comes a point where doing better becomes equipment limited. All other things being equal. Way too many people seem to think that you plunk down the money, and you are an instant contester. Way too many people? I didn't think contestors were that numerous. In similar fashion, cost is relative. A $5000 station is small change to some and beyond others' wildest dreams. Same for many other spending levels. Just a few years back, having a dedicated computer in the shack was a major expense. Not any more! I believe there are two general groups of contesters: 1. People who like the head-to-head competition on a personal level and are not motivated by having large amounts of expensive hardware. These people focus on operating skill, knowledge and strategy instead of = equipment. -and- 2. People who will do anything legal to maximize their score, including spending huge amounts of money on rigs, antennas and any other hard= ware which gives them an advantage. I disagree strongly! I think there are many more basic groups, from the casual types just putting in a few hours and maybe picking up a new state or country, to the all-out multi-multis, to the middle-of-the- pack folks, to the special-interest ones (like the QRP types with incredible antenna farms). On top of this is the fact that the superstations require operating skill, knowledge and strategy just like the 100 W and dipole folks. Both groups have good points and neither is superior to the other. Agreed! In fact the superstations need the little guys in order to make super scores. And the little guys need the superstations. What is wrong with contesting today is both groups are combined into one= when it comes to competing, and that is hurting contesting. Well, there's division by power level, by multiop vs. single, and packet spotting. I propose that there be two basic classes of competition: 1. A Limited Class which clearly spells out maximum hardware, i.e. one radio, one antenna per band, no receiving while transmitting, and perhaps some others, -and- 2. An Unlimited Class which allows anything legal. Within those two classes there could be subclasses for power level and number of operators, but the basic hardware definitions would remain the same. This would allow an operator to choose his class and know he = is competing against others who are equipped similarly. The trouble is where the lines are drawn. What does "one radio" mean? Is a second receiver allowed? How about if the second receiver is built into the rig? One antenna per band could work a hardship on even some modest stations. At my previous location I had an inverted V for 80/40 that could be made to work on 20. Also had a 20 meter vertical with elevated radials. 100 W homebrew transceiver. Hardly a superstation but I did pretty well. On 20 the vertical was usually better, but sometimes the inverted V would do the trick. "One antenna per band" would eliminate that. The whole concept is way way way to complicated. Also unenforceable. Will the contest committee send out Hamcops to ensure compliance? Who enforces the present rules? Power level, packet spotting, etc.? Good question. The answer is it is a gentleman's agreement, and you trust the person to abide by the rules. So you make the rules as rock-bottom simple as possible. Rules like no receiving while transmitting, are simply not enforceable. Ideas such as monoband antennas are going to knock a lot of people right out of the contest - unless of course they decide to cheat, as is the one receiver idea. But, but, but... If the ARRL DX desk don't approve it ain't ham radio. They approved the Frenchmen's excursion outside of France's 6M band!!! Finally, the idea of separating the contesters by limited and unlimited classes is incredibly counterproductive. So these small number of superoperaters are just going to work among themselves and then sign off, I suppose. It is common knowledge that many small contestors are ther to snag DX and nothing else. Whenever I hear rules change suggestions, I ask how this is going to affect the person suggesting the changes. Funny how it is always to give this person a big advantage, even when they claim they are just trying to level the playing field. At the end of the day, the big $$$ stations win. Everyone else supplies contacts. When wasn't it so? This is just a punitive plan toward the big stations. So you think the big $$$ stations won't go for it? One time I listened to one of the high-powered, high scoring stations noting how *they* should get extra points for listening to all those low power stations with the weak signals! Yep. Recall the many, many, many times you've had to say to the qrp station, "Say again all after xxx." The present hardware situation reminds me of a boxer who has acquired a set of brass knuckles but who still wants to fight those not so equipped. That's not right and neither is contesting in its present form. I don't see it that way at all. I think we need an "iron" class for a very different reason. One thing that makes a contest fun (for me) is the competition. It's radiosport, pure and simple. I think the message that needs to be emphasized more is that you don't need a superstation to have a good time. No you don't. But it takes more than the average station to win. Define average? I've got an IC-745 and used a ladder line fed dipole (96 feet long @50 feet high) to work the NEQP from Pennsylvania. Used a MFJ-949E tuner on it. Didja win? Total outlay was around 350 dollars, and this has got to be a below average station setup if there ever was one, especially by these "contest standards". Far, far, far below. Revisit the notion when you've got that 746 and a tri-bander at 60'. That is the bottom of "average." But I put in a big booming signal to New England, and was definitely limited by my own skills, (still working on 'em) and not my below average station setup. Got a certificate one year. Ahem. Scan it and post it in place of Steve's photo. Please. Somebody... I know too many hams with "100W and dipole" stations who think contesting with such a setup isn't practical. 100 watts and a dipole is only about 90 percent of contesters! And they don't win. Sometimes. Depends on the class and their skills. What? What kind of contesting are you thinking about? People have a tendency to operate with the stations that they have, save for portable operations. Sounds like a "Well Duh!" statement, but it is what most of us have to offer. People have a tendency to improve their stations.... And compared to the results of superstations, they're right. But if they could see how they did against similar setups, we might get more of them - which is a good thing all around. My experience is that contests have two different aspects. Operator skill and power. This is assuming that the operator has a receiver of adequate performance. If you have to get rid of one parameter, go with operator skill. "Power" is actually signal strength. I'd rather have really good antennas and QRP than high power and poor antennas. How about high power AND good antennas? 8^) Now you're talking contesting. |
"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message nk.net... "bb" wrote in message oups.com... K4YZ wrote: wrote: From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Sun 19 Jun 2005 22:53 Hey Lennie....did that beating you took with the lye soap leave any permanent scars? No "beating," no "lye soap," no "scars," you southern-fried dumb### dip####. Whoa! We got profanity, abuse AND bigotry all in one sentence! Way to go Lennie! Yet PCTA Larry Roll/K3LT's ubiquitous use of "persons with a southern accent" was perfectly acceptable. And Dan's initial use of profanity in an otherwise civil debate on amateur radio policy issues is not a problem. Oh, the PCTA double-standard! When will it end? Where will it end? Dip**** and Dumbass is a commonly used term in the US Military. I don't consider it profane, if you do.....tuff. Dan/W4NTI Besides they are only vulgar not profane. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"bb" wrote in message oups.com... Dan/W4NTI wrote: "bb" wrote in message oups.com... and I did not pass. In retrospect, this must have been the diff between Morse Code and the advent of the ARRL VEC use of the Farnsworth Code. I'm not sure I understand that. As I remember the FCC universally used those paper tape machines. And the method, although not called Farnsworth that I can recall, was the same. I.E. Code sent at a fast rate with spacing larger. This is the Farnsworth method. Of course I may be wrong. But explain what you mean. Dan/W4NTI |
"Mike Coslo" wrote Who do ya want - a impatient knob twiddler with a FTDX 9000 and an antenna farm of (insert your favorite antenna here), or a good capable contester with say a dipole and an IC-746. Your example is specious, Mike. Generally the contester who builds a competition grade station has also invested in building the skills and techniques to take advantage of the capabilities they have sought in their station design. 73, de Hans, K0HB |
KØHB wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote Who do ya want - a impatient knob twiddler with a FTDX 9000 and an antenna farm of (insert your favorite antenna here), or a good capable contester with say a dipole and an IC-746. Your example is specious, Mike. Generally the contester who builds a competition grade station has also invested in building the skills and techniques to take advantage of the capabilities they have sought in their station design. 73, de Hans, K0HB Generally but not always, Hans. Here's an example: Joe Moneybags has always admired the photos which Hans Brakob takes. He notes that Hans always uses a top of the line Nikon. Joe sells his Canon and buys the expensive Nikon. His photos are still not up to the Brakob standard. Joe fails to realize that the skill of the photographer is more important than the price or model of the camera. You have to have seen something similar a dozen times in DXing or contesting. Dave K8MN |
KØHB wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote Who do ya want - a impatient knob twiddler with a FTDX 9000 and an antenna farm of (insert your favorite antenna here), or a good capable contester with say a dipole and an IC-746. Your example is specious, Mike. Generally the contester who builds a competition grade station has also invested in building the skills and techniques to take advantage of the capabilities they have sought in their station design. Do you think so Hans? I have examples of just that, and it has been my personal experience. Your statement is true as far as it goes, but I've seen what happens when the newbies have access to the competition grade setups, as sometimes happens during events such as Field day So many of the newbies I have worked with come in with the expectations of sitting down, throwing the tuning knob around, and calling, then waiting for the pileup. They get frustrated with the work that you have to put into the more modest setups. Many times we are told that the station "isn't working". And of course it is. An experienced and patient operator can start making QSO's immediately. One of the newbies decided that he wanted to use the QRO station and referred to the GOTA as a "toy station". Those QRO stations are powerful competition for lower powered ones. It is not terribly difficult to twiddle the knob, start calling CQ, and getting return calls. Problem is, it doesn't tend to make you a good contester. - Mike KB3EIA - |
Dave Heil wrote:
KØHB wrote: "Mike Coslo" wrote Who do ya want - a impatient knob twiddler with a FTDX 9000 and an antenna farm of (insert your favorite antenna here), or a good capable contester with say a dipole and an IC-746. Your example is specious, Mike. Generally the contester who builds a competition grade station has also invested in building the skills and techniques to take advantage of the capabilities they have sought in their station design. 73, de Hans, K0HB Generally but not always, Hans. Here's an example: Joe Moneybags has always admired the photos which Hans Brakob takes. He notes that Hans always uses a top of the line Nikon. Joe sells his Canon and buys the expensive Nikon. His photos are still not up to the Brakob standard. Joe fails to realize that the skill of the photographer is more important than the price or model of the camera. You have to have seen something similar a dozen times in DXing or contesting. And that is my basic point. If people want to claim it is specious, then I guess they mean that the equipment is much more important than the operators skills. All you have to do is pump money into the contest station, and assuming you pump the most money into it, you will win. Sounds ridiculous to me. Perhaps my with my setup, I should just give up. I don't stand a chance of even doing well, much less winning, eh? Or perhaps a person can hone their skills using a modest setup, then move on to a hot station and start doing very well. I wonder how many Ops have started at the top? I think I'll buy an Indy car. If I buy the mostest expensivist one, I'll surely win all the races, eh? - Mike KB3EIA - |
From: "bb" on Wed 22 Jun 2005 15:48
wrote: From: "bb" on Tues 21 Jun 2005 03:15 wrote: From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Sun 19 Jun 2005 22:46 "Jim Hampton" wrote in message The twoers and sixers were rock-bound. Anyway, he said that he wasn't familiar with VHF. "Familiarity with VHF" wasn't needed. ALL that counted was getting the morse code speed UP...that yielded absolute knowledge of all theory thus guaranteeing rank-status-privilege. We're trying to change that, all in vain. Only the actuarial tables bring about change in the ARS. Well, that's how it goes... :-) I designed and built an external VFO for a few Sixers. Worked fine. One of the recipients was showing an olde-fahrt extra how it operated and olde-fahrt said "Nice, did you build it?" "No," said my friend and, pointing to me, "He did." "THAT'S ILLEGAL!" shouted the olde-fahrt. Heh heh heh...the same anal attitudes existed four decades ago as they do now. In RRAP, we have the uniformed, and the uninformed! The "uniformed and the uninformed!" I LIKE that phrase. Apt. :-) You forgot to mention the changes in elevation over changes in distance!!! Heh heh heh. In northern Illinois the elevation changes amount to +/- a yard. Not even close to bragging rights... :-) Darnit!!! We're supposed to hear about how it was uphill both ways juss like the real hammes claim. That was for a COMMERCIAL license, Brian. No braggin' rights allowed in here on that. :-) However, to kill time waiting for the return train, I saw a matinee of "Oklahoma." Sat in the balcony, undisturbed. That was good for a change of a couple stories in height! :-) Did you try a "balcony" antenna while there? Nobody to communicate with. Was a slow day for matinees, I guess. Too bad it was a sunny day in Chicago. No snow to brag to anyone ("uphill both ways through"). Passed no problem, even with the interruption of a fire drill in the Federal Building halfway through the test. No real hamme could have survived that. You're probably right. [a lot of the anony-mousies won't know what we're talking about on this subject...they weren't here to see some of the astounding bragging going on by the late Dick Carroll and others in here] Dick was not unique unto himself. There are plenty of Dick imposters in the ARS. You mean the beepers are all just dildoes?!? Good grief! Maybe Dr. Ruth Westheimer needs to be informed of this!?! Brrrr...what a group! |
From: "bb" on Wed 22 Jun 2005 17:03
wrote: bb Jun 19, 10:51 pm show options Dan/W4NTI wrote: "bb" wrote in message ups.com... Dan/W4NTI wrote: "bb" wrote in message oups.com... It's nice to see Miss Manners finally noticing something amiss n the ARS. "bb" is just full of all sorts of assumptions, ain't he boys and girls? Using his logic then all us "higher" class operators need to get out of EMCOM, eh? I'll be sure to tell the Extra class Emergency Net Control operator next time I see her. Dan/W4NTI Dan, you're welcome to tell her anything you want. She's probably already aware that you usually get it wrong anyway. Do you have trouble chewing gum and walking Bryan? I don't chew gum. I don't smoke, either. Did you have a point? Probably on his head... He should have it biopsied. Save him an early date with the actuarial tables. Sounds like a plan! Ol' Danny is getting worse. Now he thinks I am claiming "combat action." Maybe I'll claim SEVEN of them just to keep him happy? It works for another. :-) The Vietnam War ended 30 years ago. I guess this post-traumatic stress stuff really gets to some...and lasts a long time... More and more I'm thinking the PCTA extras are going bonkers from too much beeping. |
wrote: From: "bb" on Wed 22 Jun 2005 17:03 wrote: bb Jun 19, 10:51 pm show options Dan/W4NTI wrote: "bb" wrote in message ups.com... Dan/W4NTI wrote: "bb" wrote in message oups.com... It's nice to see Miss Manners finally noticing something amiss n the ARS. "bb" is just full of all sorts of assumptions, ain't he boys and girls? Using his logic then all us "higher" class operators need to get out of EMCOM, eh? I'll be sure to tell the Extra class Emergency Net Control operator next time I see her. Dan/W4NTI Dan, you're welcome to tell her anything you want. She's probably already aware that you usually get it wrong anyway. Do you have trouble chewing gum and walking Bryan? I don't chew gum. I don't smoke, either. Did you have a point? Probably on his head... He should have it biopsied. Save him an early date with the actuarial tables. Sounds like a plan! Ol' Danny is getting worse. Now he thinks I am claiming "combat action." Maybe I'll claim SEVEN of them just to keep him happy? It works for another. But you HAVE claimed combat action, Lennie! You repeatedly try to impress us with how you "served" with guys who were KIA, and you were quite eloquent trying to tell yet another person what it was REALLY like being under "incomming artillery fire"... ! ! ! ! ! The Vietnam War ended 30 years ago. I guess this post-traumatic stress stuff really gets to some...and lasts a long time... It must...You've been suffering PTSD from Korean War service even though you weren't anywhere near the fight. More and more I'm thinking the PCTA extras are going bonkers from too much beeping. No....It only seems that way as you fall deeper into your OWN psychosis, Lennie...Comes from too much ranting and raving in newsgroups that you don't belong in. Steve, K4YZ |
Dave Heil wrote: K=D8HB wrote: "Mike Coslo" wrote Who do ya want - a impatient knob twiddler with a FTDX 9000 and an ante= nna farm of (insert your favorite antenna here), or a good capable conteste= r with say a dipole and an IC-746. Your example is specious, Mike. Generally the contester who builds a competition grade station has also invested in building the skills and techniques to take advantage of the capabilities they have sought in th= eir station design. 73, de Hans, K0HB Generally but not always, Hans. Here's an example: Joe Moneybags has always admired the photos which Hans Brakob takes. He notes that Hans always uses a top of the line Nikon. Joe sells his Canon and buys the expensive Nikon. His photos are still not up to the Brakob standard. Joe fails to realize that the skill of the photographer is more important than the price or model of the camera. You have to have seen something similar a dozen times in DXing or contesting. Dave K8MN In music. Some guy see's Joe Walsh playing a guitar and buys one just like it... |
Mike Coslo wrote:
K=D8HB wrote: "Mike Coslo" wrote Who do ya want - a impatient knob twiddler with a FTDX 9000 and an antenna farm of (insert your favorite antenna here), or a good capable contester with say a dipole and an IC-746. Your example is specious, Mike. Generally the contester who builds= a competition grade station has also invested in building the skills and techniques to take advantage of the capabilities they have sought in their station design. Do you think so Hans? I have examples of just that, and it has been my personal experience. Your statement is true as far as it goes, but I've seen what happens when the newbies have access to the competition grade setups, as sometimes happens during events such as Field day The difference is that they didn't build that station themselves. So many of the newbies I have worked with come in with the expectations of sitting down, throwing the tuning knob around, and calling, then waiting for the pileup. They get frustrated with the work that you have to put into the more modest setups. I think one of the main purposes of FD is that sort of education. Let folks try out new (to them) rigs, new antennas, operating techniques, etc., and see what *really* works. And let the newbies see how it's done. Many times we are told that the station "isn't working". And of course it is. Cockpit trouble. Short-circuit between the headphones. An experienced and patient operator can start making QSO's immediately. One of the newbies decided that he wanted to use the QRO station and referred to the GOTA as a "toy station". "younger and more capable minds".... I've had similar experiences on FD. Some folks think they're doing well to make QSOs on SSB at a certain rate with a beam and 100 W transceiver, with an op and a logger. Exhausted after an hour or two, they wander over to the CW tent and find me working them at 2, 3 or more times their rate, with a dipole, "old" transceiver, and no logger. The reactions when presented with a manual transmatch were priceless, too. Those QRO stations are powerful competition for lower powered ones. It is not terribly difficult to twiddle the knob, start calling CQ, and getting return calls. Problem is, it doesn't tend to make you a good co= ntester. That's why it might be a good idea - next year - to run all ~100 W setups. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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