|
"John Smith" wrote in message ... Dee: Now you are the official spokesmen for ALL these women, I'd rather hear that directly from all the other girls here... John-listens-to-the-echoes-from-this-silent-and-empty-room-and-Dee-speaking-for-ALL-the-other-females John Once again you draw conclusions unwarranted by the comment, a comment based not only on personal experience but articles that I have read by some of the leaders of the women's organizations. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"John Smith" wrote in message ... Dee: "Physical skills?" You use this in reference to banging a key... you josh right, the weakest woman in the world finds that no real task... It is more akin to being able to whittle wood, throw a baseball or play a musical instrument... ... well, not even that, it is in a class all itself and deserves a burial into history... John Last time I tried it, playing a musical instrument was a physical skill as well as throwing a basketball. You seem to confuse "skill" with "strength." Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Dee Flint wrote:
"John Smith" wrote in message ... ... oh, I love that argument!!! Let me see if I have it correctly, either: 1) Women are too stupid for the technical fields. How you managed to twist Mike's words to come up with this interpretation is amazing. He neither said nor implied anything of the sort. 2) We are no worse than any other technical field about baring women. He said nothing about barring women from technical fields. Again how you managed to come up with this inverted interpretation is one of the mysteries of the world. Women choose not to go into technical fields for their own reasons. That includes hobby activities like ham radio. Thank you. I work with a number of female engineers, and they seem to have no problem working with me. My opinion on the issue is based on conversations with them. Especially one who bristles at being called a "female" engineer. She says "Just call me an engineer, if you don't mind!" - Mike KB3EIA - |
"John Smith" wrote in message ... Dee: Certainly everyone over 50 needs to step back and let the younger men have a go--we are stagnated right now--I won't argue that point--it is MUCH too obvious... What is obvious is that the younger people are inexperienced. You fail to realize that we need people of ALL ages involved and each contributes to the benefit of amateur radio (or any other activity for that matter). And since there is no limit on the number of hams, there is nothing stopping the younger men from getting in and developing what they wish within the technical limitations of the medium (i.e. HF cannot support ultrawide modes without causing detrimental effects on the number of people who can use the bands simultaneously). What "modes" are you using? I am using a 56k modem my son modified to modulate a transmitter... any other person able to interface an old 56k modem to their computer can get the data... now a nice 10mbs per second mode would be nice, where is some cheap equipment? You do realize that a 56k modem is no use on HF. There isn't enough bandwidth and the FCC rightly limits the speed of the digital modes. As to what I've worked, I used to do RTTY, Amtor, packet, and some others. All were deadly boring. I've put the equipment away to free up desk space. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... [snip] The idea of "recruiting" people into the ARS is likely never going to work - at least as far as snagging people that are thinking about a hobby, but don't know what to pick up. If you wanna be a Ham - you *know* it. I must disagree to some extent with this, Mike. There are people who would love being hams if only they knew about it and knew what it was like. I never knew I wanted to be a ham until after I became one. My ex dragged me to a ham class as something we could do together and I have to admit that it did not sound interesting at the time. I found that it was something I liked and now I would fight tooth and nail to keep my license. If we are going to "recruit," we need to find those who would like it but haven't had the opportunity to know about it or to know enough about it. [snip] A local oldster was inquiring as to when his license expired, because he couldn't find his F.C.C. Wallpaper. We help him figure it out. We need to keep the geezers on the air. I love talking to them. I hope someone is looking out for me when I'm 91! I hope so too. I had the great pleasure and honor of speaking with W5BQU (Big, Quick, and Ugly) a year or two before he passed away. He was over 100 at the time and still in pretty good control of his faculties and still with a zest for life, enjoying those things he still could do. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Dee:
Now you coax me into going down to the level of, in you own words, "a comment based not only on personal experience but articles that I have read by some of the leaders of the women's organizations." .... so that now I argue against your interpretations of materials and a "special interest group"... what next, "Lesbian hams?" The women are NOT there on the bands--you claim they are "hiding", well great--they still ain't there in any REAL sense! John "Dee Flint" wrote in message ... "John Smith" wrote in message ... Dee: Now you are the official spokesmen for ALL these women, I'd rather hear that directly from all the other girls here... John-listens-to-the-echoes-from-this-silent-and-empty-room-and-Dee-speaking-for-ALL-the-other-females John Once again you draw conclusions unwarranted by the comment, a comment based not only on personal experience but articles that I have read by some of the leaders of the women's organizations. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Dee:
My sons have used my equipment--they have no interest--there are just too few here of interest to them--they ride the internet... .... me, I have a vested interest, I try to get as many kids into the hobby as I can--I am in a good position and have access to many of their minds--no women are interested in learning code... not a one has stuck through to become a ham, I won't gauge the whole world on these statistics--it is just fact--and code by far is the worst turn off... .... I am NOT very successful at getting many young men in the math/engineering/technical fields interested even--now, I will stand slurs on my ability to motivate them, perhaps I am not well suited, I really don't see this in my other works with them, but I will accept the possibility... however, then when you look at the numbers entering amateur radio you realize I must not be the only one with such flaws... .... and, if you get past all that--look at the mind set of the individuals I argue with here--you think there is any chance in hell young people are going to tolerate such limited views and individuals "religious devotion" to cw? I don't think, I have asked them, the answer is, "NO!" Warmest regards, John "Dee Flint" wrote in message ... "John Smith" wrote in message ... Dee: That is another interesting statistic--most women in radio are the wives of hams--there is certainly some interesting reasons behind that, I am sure... I think it directly relates to "Good-Old Boy's Club" but them accepting the wife, daughter, relative of a member of the club... John Most hams (male or female) got into ham radio because they were the relatives and/or friends of hams. New hams get into the hobby by contact with existing hams for the most part. My brother became a ham because I was one. I've not seen any "Good-Old Boy's Club" attitude at all. When I joined the local club after moving to this area, I was single and none of the members had ever met or talked to my ex. They accepted me immediately as a fellow ham. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Dee Flint wrote: There certainly are women in Ham radio, and although a minority, they are probably no more of a minority than women's representation in other technical fields. This would mean that any problem is shared with those other technical fields, and not a Ham radio specific problem. - Mike KB3EIA - Actually I know more women in ham radio than women in engineering. In all my 43 years in engineering I've met a grand total of four woman engineers, two MEs, one EE and a Chem E. Our contesting club alone has three female members, an old girlfriend is a ham and I met W3CUL. Out of Lord only knows how many engineers and hams I've met over the years. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE w3rv |
Dee:
Yes, I do confuse "physical" and "strength", the both inspire manual tasks as opposed to mental tasks to me... cw is like the tying I do here, neither requiring thought, strength or a particular skill... it just looks like rote (brain dead) acquired learning to me... I learned to type so I could communicate with the computer BETTER and FASTER and LEARN more... cw does not offer me that worthwhile reward to make me give it any such respect, devotion, or "religious worship" at all... John "Dee Flint" wrote in message ... "John Smith" wrote in message ... Dee: "Physical skills?" You use this in reference to banging a key... you josh right, the weakest woman in the world finds that no real task... It is more akin to being able to whittle wood, throw a baseball or play a musical instrument... ... well, not even that, it is in a class all itself and deserves a burial into history... John Last time I tried it, playing a musical instrument was a physical skill as well as throwing a basketball. You seem to confuse "skill" with "strength." Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Dee:
Wide band FM is much more than enough band width--it can be done with some success on narrow band... .... even the ancient terminology "mode" is disgusting to a real engineer--hams need to get with it and realize these are "protocols"... ham radio is beginning to look like a bunch of would be "Egyptian priests" attempting control though ignorance generated by specialized terminology... John "Dee Flint" wrote in message ... "John Smith" wrote in message ... Dee: Certainly everyone over 50 needs to step back and let the younger men have a go--we are stagnated right now--I won't argue that point--it is MUCH too obvious... What is obvious is that the younger people are inexperienced. You fail to realize that we need people of ALL ages involved and each contributes to the benefit of amateur radio (or any other activity for that matter). And since there is no limit on the number of hams, there is nothing stopping the younger men from getting in and developing what they wish within the technical limitations of the medium (i.e. HF cannot support ultrawide modes without causing detrimental effects on the number of people who can use the bands simultaneously). What "modes" are you using? I am using a 56k modem my son modified to modulate a transmitter... any other person able to interface an old 56k modem to their computer can get the data... now a nice 10mbs per second mode would be nice, where is some cheap equipment? You do realize that a 56k modem is no use on HF. There isn't enough bandwidth and the FCC rightly limits the speed of the digital modes. As to what I've worked, I used to do RTTY, Amtor, packet, and some others. All were deadly boring. I've put the equipment away to free up desk space. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Dee:
I really can't believe some are so devoted to arguing as this while amateur radio declines... First, I DO believe there is a problem with the numbers of licenses... Second, there have been things tried, and there are just echos here of RE-TRYING failed ideas here--they didn't work then, they won't work now! Third, I don't think anyone here is into any real want to do anything better--most are locked in a state of firm and heavy denial and the numbers must drop much more before this will improve... Fourth, I DO believe time and Jim Haynie will provide real fixes--eventually... Fifth, my opinion is that almost everyone here, to the last man/woman, is going to let things go to hell for their own self-interests--and that to me is as disgusting as someone masturbating in public--NO ONE ELSE ENJOYS IT! John "Dee Flint" wrote in message ... "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... [snip] The idea of "recruiting" people into the ARS is likely never going to work - at least as far as snagging people that are thinking about a hobby, but don't know what to pick up. If you wanna be a Ham - you *know* it. I must disagree to some extent with this, Mike. There are people who would love being hams if only they knew about it and knew what it was like. I never knew I wanted to be a ham until after I became one. My ex dragged me to a ham class as something we could do together and I have to admit that it did not sound interesting at the time. I found that it was something I liked and now I would fight tooth and nail to keep my license. If we are going to "recruit," we need to find those who would like it but haven't had the opportunity to know about it or to know enough about it. [snip] A local oldster was inquiring as to when his license expired, because he couldn't find his F.C.C. Wallpaper. We help him figure it out. We need to keep the geezers on the air. I love talking to them. I hope someone is looking out for me when I'm 91! I hope so too. I had the great pleasure and honor of speaking with W5BQU (Big, Quick, and Ugly) a year or two before he passed away. He was over 100 at the time and still in pretty good control of his faculties and still with a zest for life, enjoying those things he still could do. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Dee Flint wrote: There certainly are women in Ham radio, and although a minority, they are probably no more of a minority than women's representation in other technical fields. This would mean that any problem is shared with those other technical fields, and not a Ham radio specific problem. - Mike KB3EIA - Actually I know more women in ham radio than women in engineering. .. . . and I might add FWIW that with the exception of W3CUL who had been a professional CW op none of the woman hams I've met personally were technologists of any flavor. One is a lifetime housewife, one is a public school elemantary teacher and the other is a grants manager for a philanthropic trust fund. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE w3rv |
Dee Flint wrote:
"John Smith" wrote in message ... Dee: Michael's own words: "There certainly are women in Ham radio, and although a minority, ..." What does that mean--they are being held out by the old farts? The women too want no-code? He is not claiming anything of the sort. Once again you see what isn't there. Just what is the reason he was claiming? He is not claiming any reason but simply stating that the same factors that cause women not to choose technical careers also cause them not to choose technical hobbies. He has made no statement about what those factors may be. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Wonder how many organizations that are mostly joined by women does Johnny Smith belong to? Hey Johnnyboy, why don't you join the Red Hat Society? You might just look good in a purple dress and red hat. |
John Smith wrote:
Dee: cw is like the tying I do here, neither requiring thought, strength or a particular skill. So you should have no trouble copying 30-40 wpm then. |
John Smith wrote:
"special interest group"... what next, "Lesbian hams?" The women are NOT there on the bands--you claim they are "hiding", well great--they still ain't there in any REAL sense! So what is this hang-up you have about women, why do you think the bands should be populated with lots of women hams? As a whole, women aren't attracted to a technical hobby like ham radio. Ever go out to the model airplane radio control field? See lots of women there flying toy airplanes? How many women get their pilots license as compared to men? Ever go to a quilting meeting? How many men did you see there? Ever go to an antique radio swap meet? You will find a lot more men collecting and fixing old radios than women. Do you collect dolls, tea sets, china dishes? No? Lots of women do. When I taught Novice classis some years ago, there were always several women in the class and they ejoyed learning the code as much as anyone. There are things that interest men as a hobby and things that interest women as a hobby, and most often they are different things. If all you can see is doom and gloom for ham radio, I suggest you go back to the 'freeband' where you seem to think radio life is great. |
John Smith wrote: I'd say those figures are certainly pressing the envelope... either way, you don't see 'em on the bands in those numbers... your 1-in-20 seems more like a 1-in-a-hundred-or-better to me! "Seems like" is not knowledge of the facts and you obviously don't know the difference. Which is a well-known trait amongst mindless trolls. John |
Kelly:
Ahhh, that explains it, being the "women magnet" you are, they are all busy chatting in secret to you--and that is why I never catch them--well, except for a few of the aussie girls... John wrote in message oups.com... John Smith wrote: I'd say those figures are certainly pressing the envelope... either way, you don't see 'em on the bands in those numbers... your 1-in-20 seems more like a 1-in-a-hundred-or-better to me! "Seems like" is not knowledge of the facts and you obviously don't know the difference. Which is a well-known trait amongst mindless trolls. John |
John Smith wrote:
Buzzard Bozo: What thoughtful responses. |
John Smith wrote:
Dee: I really can't believe some are so devoted to arguing as this while amateur radio declines... You're arguing more than anyone here at the moment, John. First, I DO believe there is a problem with the numbers of licenses... OK, fine. How much are the numbers down, percentagewise, from the peak? How about the ratio of hams to the overall population? Show us some solid numbers. Second, there have been things tried, and there are just echos here of RE-TRYING failed ideas here--they didn't work then, they won't work now! I agree! In 1987, 1990, 1991, and 2000, the test requirements for an FCC-issued amateur license were successively reduced. The greatest reduction came in 2000, when the code tests were reduced from three speeds to one, and the written tests reduced from 5 tests totalling 190 questions to three tests totalling 120 questions. And yet the numbers are now declining. Third, I don't think anyone here is into any real want to do anything better--most are locked in a state of firm and heavy denial and the numbers must drop much more before this will improve... I'm for doing something better. But what I think of as better, you dismiss. Fourth, I DO believe time and Jim Haynie will provide real fixes--eventually... The FCC makes the rules... Fifth, my opinion is that almost everyone here, to the last man/woman, is going to let things go to hell for their own self-interests-- That includes you, John. Which of your own self-interests are you willing to sacrifice? and that to me is as disgusting as someone masturbating in public--NO ONE ELSE ENJOYS IT! Somehow I don't think you're the ideal person to present amateur radio to young people... "Dee Flint" wrote in message ... "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... [snip] The idea of "recruiting" people into the ARS is likely never going to work - at least as far as snagging people that are thinking about a hobby, but don't know what to pick up. If you wanna be a Ham - you *know* it. I must disagree to some extent with this, Mike. There are people who would love being hams if only they knew about it and knew what it was like. I never knew I wanted to be a ham until after I became one. My ex dragged me to a ham class as something we could do together and I have to admit that it did not sound interesting at the time. I found that it was something I liked and now I would fight tooth and nail to keep my license. So what you really needed was exposure - publicity - examples - demos. Were you attracted to amateur radio because it was like the internet, or because it was something very different? If we are going to "recruit," we need to find those who would like it but haven't had the opportunity to know about it or to know enough about it. I say you toss it out there for everyone. [snip] A local oldster was inquiring as to when his license expired, because he couldn't find his F.C.C. Wallpaper. We help him figure it out. We need to keep the geezers on the air. I love talking to them. I hope someone is looking out for me when I'm 91! I hope so too. I had the great pleasure and honor of speaking with W5BQU (Big, Quick, and Ugly) a year or two before he passed away. He was over 100 at the time and still in pretty good control of his faculties and still with a zest for life, enjoying those things he still could do. I've been a ham for 38 years now and I hope I'm not even halfway done yet. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Buzzard Boy:
.... John "Cmd Buzz Corey" wrote in message ... Dee Flint wrote: "John Smith" wrote in message ... Dee: Michael's own words: "There certainly are women in Ham radio, and although a minority, ..." What does that mean--they are being held out by the old farts? The women too want no-code? He is not claiming anything of the sort. Once again you see what isn't there. Just what is the reason he was claiming? He is not claiming any reason but simply stating that the same factors that cause women not to choose technical careers also cause them not to choose technical hobbies. He has made no statement about what those factors may be. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Wonder how many organizations that are mostly joined by women does Johnny Smith belong to? Hey Johnnyboy, why don't you join the Red Hat Society? You might just look good in a purple dress and red hat. |
Buzzard Bozo:
.... John "Cmd Buzz Corey" wrote in message ... John Smith wrote: "special interest group"... what next, "Lesbian hams?" The women are NOT there on the bands--you claim they are "hiding", well great--they still ain't there in any REAL sense! So what is this hang-up you have about women, why do you think the bands should be populated with lots of women hams? As a whole, women aren't attracted to a technical hobby like ham radio. Ever go out to the model airplane radio control field? See lots of women there flying toy airplanes? How many women get their pilots license as compared to men? Ever go to a quilting meeting? How many men did you see there? Ever go to an antique radio swap meet? You will find a lot more men collecting and fixing old radios than women. Do you collect dolls, tea sets, china dishes? No? Lots of women do. When I taught Novice classis some years ago, there were always several women in the class and they ejoyed learning the code as much as anyone. There are things that interest men as a hobby and things that interest women as a hobby, and most often they are different things. If all you can see is doom and gloom for ham radio, I suggest you go back to the 'freeband' where you seem to think radio life is great. |
Buzzard Bugger:
.... John "Cmd Buzz Corey" wrote in message ... John Smith wrote: Dee: cw is like the tying I do here, neither requiring thought, strength or a particular skill. So you should have no trouble copying 30-40 wpm then. |
Buzzard Bummer:
.... John "Cmd Buzz Corey" wrote in message ... John Smith wrote: Buzzard Bozo: What thoughtful responses. |
John Smith wrote:
"Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... John, You could make the same assertion about a driver's license. Memorize some rules and take a road test. Do you support eliminating motor vehicle tests? Perhaps only for college educated folks? Might it make sense to require folks to know where the band edges are, or would you think it doesn't matter. If you travel to the U.K., do you think it might be smart to understand that they drive on the *left* side of the road rather than the right? Even if you are a pedestrian? I suspect you'd be upset if someone started transmitting on your Direct Tv frequencies and killed your reception. There are rules and folks wishing licenses are supposed to demonstrate some knowledge of those rules. These rules do not require the calculus, yet even a college grad has to demonstrate some knowledge of them. 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA "John Smith" wrote in message ... ... the amateur tests are a trivial problem to men with real educations... ... the cw part makes as much sense as learning to play a "jew's harp"--a lot of sense if you wish to, none if you don't... I just support removing code because no new hams are using it in any meaningful numbers. "Meaningful numbers"... That suggests that you ahve some definitive research numbers...Some scientifically controlled poll. Please cite the poll...Or was this just your "opinion" based upon no one wanting to talk to you? The new state of the art hams are interested in hooking a modem up and interfacing the radio to the computer... Great...that's what some are interested in... Hook up a code key and they loose interest immediately... No... You meant YOU lose interest immediately. Now, a bunch of old guys who are computer illiterate have no choice than to try to amuse themselves with a damn key... Yep...there it is. Steve, K4YZ |
John Smith wrote:
N2EY: You should be ashamed of yourself- Why? -you damn well know young cw'ers are rarer than... How would you know, John? You've told us you don't use Morse Code. So how would you know how many young hams there are using the mode? You've made fun of the mode and those who use it. A young ham who uses and likes Morse Code would probably just avoid you, rather than get involved in a confrontation with you. Most are no-code licenses! How do you know? Here's a clue: - Age information in the FCC database is incomplete. The birthdate of some but not all licensees are in there. The times when age information was collected are such that the ages of young hams may be underrepresented in the database. - Not all Technicians are "nocodetest". The FCC has been renewing all Technician and Technician Plus licenses as Technician for more than 5 years, and in less than 5 more years there will be no more Technician Pluses at all, because they will all have either expired or been renewed as Technicians. In that same time period, Novices who pass Element 2 get Technician licenses, not Technician Pluses. And any Technician who passes Element 1 is still shown as Technician on the database. - You haven't defined "young" - does it mean hams under age 20? 30? 40? Does it mean hams licensed less than a year? 5 years? 10 years? Perhaps you have simply concluded that the code test is the boogeyman responsible for all problems in the amateur radio service, and that when it's gone, all will be well. - wrote in message ups.com... John Smith wrote: I just support removing code because no new hams are using it in any meaningful numbers. I've seen plenty of new hams use Morse Code on the air. And plenty who use other modes. What information do you have to show that "no new hams are using it in any meaningful numbers." The new state of the art hams are interested in hooking a modem up and interfacing the radio to the computer... Some are - some aren't. Hook up a code key and they loose interest immediately... Depends on how you present it. And the word is "lose".... Now, a bunch of old guys who are computer illiterate have no choice than to try to amuse themselves with a damn key... Well, that leaves me out, because I'm neither old nor computer illiterate. "Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... John, You could make the same assertion about a driver's license. Memorize some rules and take a road test. Do you support eliminating motor vehicle tests? Perhaps only for college educated folks? Might it make sense to require folks to know where the band edges are, or would you think it doesn't matter. If you travel to the U.K., do you think it might be smart to understand that they drive on the *left* side of the road rather than the right? Even if you are a pedestrian? I suspect you'd be upset if someone started transmitting on your Direct Tv frequencies and killed your reception. There are rules and folks wishing licenses are supposed to demonstrate some knowledge of those rules. These rules do not require the calculus, yet even a college grad has to demonstrate some knowledge of them. 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA "John Smith" wrote in message ... ... the amateur tests are a trivial problem to men with real educations... ... the cw part makes as much sense as learning to play a "jew's harp"--a lot of sense if you wish to, none if you don't... Warmest regards, John |
Mike Coslo wrote: wrote: Michael Coslo wrote: . . . The ham was Gene Reynolds W3EAN who went out of his way to answer my unending stream of questions that night. I probably drove him nuts but I think he enjoyed it. There was no turning back after that night, I was gonna become a ham. I enjoyed the story, Brian. I've enjoyed the whole trip Michael. But I gotta break in here. What you have described is the real reason that people become hams. You were bitten by the bug, and it sounds like no one was going to stop you from becoming one. Yessir that's about right certainly in my case. I too was hooked early in life, although it took a long time to finally get my ticket. I'm just P****d that I didn't get it years earlier. Sorry about the previous rant but once in awhile somebody around here bumps my babble button and there I go again . . You bumped the bloomin' button again Coslo. Rant Mode = ON I didn't exactly leap toward the FCC office to take the test either, far from it. One problem being that I had a number of other interests too like photography, Boy Scouts, model railroading and GIRLS. They all absobred my time and what little money I could scrounge via paper routes and such. While my folks cheerfully funded Scouting they did not fund any of my other hot buttons. Probably because they knew I'd drive them broke if they did. They did encourage my pursuit of ham radio though, I guess they thought it had educatinal value and it kept me off the streets and outta trouble. The latter didn't work very well though. I never had an Elmer, I had no idea how to connect with a ham club when I was 10-12 so I scrounged books and magazines about ham radio and tuned the bands with my junk radios. When I finally got to high school I found a bunch of hams and and "the rest is history". Took me about five years to go from my encounter with W3EAN to passing the Novice test and getting on the air with it. Which was in a much different regime than we have today. The Novice license was a stick and carrot ticket with the emphasis on the stick. We had 365 days from the date the license was issued to upgrade to a 13WPM General or get booted out of ham radio. Of the dozens of local Novices I knew I don't recall of any who failed to upgrade or bitched about the code tests. I think I'm very typical of the kids who got into the hobby back then and there were great heaps of us. The adults who took up ham radio back then were a different story, they had the money and they had control of their lives which us kids did not have. Net result today is that us kids from back then are obviously the grouchy old farts of today and almost universally have disdain to one degree or another for the current state of affairs in the giveaway requirements for licensing. It's not that we're mentally frozen in time at all, that's 100% BS. It's because we've been there and done it all and we know what works and what does not given the fact that except for the current licensing nonsense ham radio hasn't changed nearly as much as many would try to have us believe. Fuhgeddit, we see right thru it. Im convinced that events in the future will prove us right. Today we have a "bloat the numbers at any cost" game which is doomed to backfire eventually. The big question is how badly it will backfire and how much damage will have been be done before it happens. The history of this country over last couple decades is chock full of eamples of backing away from failed giveaways. It's only a matter of time until ham radio gets it's turn. Whew: Got that one out of my system too. Thanks Mike. The idea of "recruiting" people into the ARS is likely never going to work - at least as far as snagging people that are thinking about a hobby, but don't know what to pick up. I agree right down the line. You can't "recruit" anybody into a hobby unless some kernel of interest already exists in the mind of the "target" and even then it's a dicey proposition in most cases. It's like trying to herd cats, doesn't work. The best we can do is toss out PR to raise the awareness of ham radio and let the chips fall where they might. The League is in the right direction in this respect. If you wanna be a Ham - you *know* it. Yupper but how one gets there varies hugely to the point where all 670,000 of us have probably taken 300,000 different routes. Compare the way Dee got into the hobby vs. my route. How different can they get?! A local oldster was inquiring as to when his license expired, because he couldn't find his F.C.C. Wallpaper. We help him figure it out. We need to keep the geezers on the air. I love talking to them. I hope someone is looking out for me when I'm 91! They're all treasures we have a responsibilty to protect. Often from themselves. Heh. - Mike KB3EIA - w3rv |
Mike Coslo wrote: Dee Flint wrote: "John Smith" wrote in message ... ... oh, I love that argument!!! Let me see if I have it correctly, either: 1) Women are too stupid for the technical fields. Uh-Huh. You trump all of 'em in that game. How you managed to twist Mike's words to come up with this interpretation is amazing. He neither said nor implied anything of the sort. 2) We are no worse than any other technical field about baring women. He said nothing about barring women from technical fields. Again how you managed to come up with this inverted interpretation is one of the mysteries of the world. Women choose not to go into technical fields for their own reasons. That includes hobby activities like ham radio. He's another Burke Dee, a male ditz/troll, he isn't worth the effort, ignore the goofball. Thank you. I work with a number of female engineers, and they seem to have no problem working with me. My opinion on the issue is based on conversations with them. I smell an oddity here. Dee is an engineer who apparently works in academia. You also work in academia and know some number of woman engineers who are also in academia. I've been out here in the commercial side for decades and per previous have had very few encounters with woman engineers. Is it possible that the woman engineers I don't see out here are operating in academia instead?? Would not surprise me a bit if that's the case. Especially one who bristles at being called a "female" engineer. She says "Just call me an engineer, if you don't mind!" Oh crap . . been there, done that . . my middle daughter was an over-the-edge NOW street warrior in her college days back when the battle over abortions rights was in full bloom. I can't tell you how much I enjoyed watching her in action on the six PM news. TWICE. Of course she had "problems" with this male chauvinist pig. Finally got down to me suggesting that instead of differentiating by the man/woman thing we differtiate by using "X-Chromosone people" and "Y-Chromosone people" instead. Only got me about ten seconds of peace before she recovered and got all over me again. sigh - Mike KB3EIA - w3rv |
Kelly:
Yep. Personal attacks, don't discuss what is not in your personal self-interests. Call those with differing ideas a troll, deny a problem exists, etc, etc, etc... Gee, where have I seen this behavior before... John wrote in message oups.com... Mike Coslo wrote: Dee Flint wrote: "John Smith" wrote in message ... ... oh, I love that argument!!! Let me see if I have it correctly, either: 1) Women are too stupid for the technical fields. Uh-Huh. You trump all of 'em in that game. How you managed to twist Mike's words to come up with this interpretation is amazing. He neither said nor implied anything of the sort. 2) We are no worse than any other technical field about baring women. He said nothing about barring women from technical fields. Again how you managed to come up with this inverted interpretation is one of the mysteries of the world. Women choose not to go into technical fields for their own reasons. That includes hobby activities like ham radio. He's another Burke Dee, a male ditz/troll, he isn't worth the effort, ignore the goofball. Thank you. I work with a number of female engineers, and they seem to have no problem working with me. My opinion on the issue is based on conversations with them. I smell an oddity here. Dee is an engineer who apparently works in academia. You also work in academia and know some number of woman engineers who are also in academia. I've been out here in the commercial side for decades and per previous have had very few encounters with woman engineers. Is it possible that the woman engineers I don't see out here are operating in academia instead?? Would not surprise me a bit if that's the case. Especially one who bristles at being called a "female" engineer. She says "Just call me an engineer, if you don't mind!" Oh crap . . been there, done that . . my middle daughter was an over-the-edge NOW street warrior in her college days back when the battle over abortions rights was in full bloom. I can't tell you how much I enjoyed watching her in action on the six PM news. TWICE. Of course she had "problems" with this male chauvinist pig. Finally got down to me suggesting that instead of differentiating by the man/woman thing we differtiate by using "X-Chromosone people" and "Y-Chromosone people" instead. Only got me about ten seconds of peace before she recovered and got all over me again. sigh - Mike KB3EIA - w3rv |
Kelly:
Yep. I think you are unaware that some of us out here have our licenses, got our radios fired up, tune the bands--and it is nothing but the same old, same old... We do see all the rag chews, boring rants, same operators, same gripes, same rants, same little groups, same ideas, same conversations as yesterday--day, after day, after day... I am sure a lot of 'em are sitting there waiting for us poor ignorant ops to "get with it" and "come to the realization" of just how vital and interesting this all is and SHOULD BE to us... Well I am one which does not and cannot appreciate it... if the fault lies with me and my interests and views--so be it... If I am wrong and all these young guys just can't wait to get a license and startup a QSO so they hear these old guys fart and rant--well, that is just a short coming of mine--and, those young dynamic guys who are running the world right now and providing new ideas, designs and methods are probably on the way here right now to find the old farts.... I'll just sit here and wait for 'em, I need a change... maybe I can chat with one or two of 'em--if they can quit their hero worship of you guys long enough... grin John wrote in message oups.com... Mike Coslo wrote: wrote: Michael Coslo wrote: . . . The ham was Gene Reynolds W3EAN who went out of his way to answer my unending stream of questions that night. I probably drove him nuts but I think he enjoyed it. There was no turning back after that night, I was gonna become a ham. I enjoyed the story, Brian. I've enjoyed the whole trip Michael. But I gotta break in here. What you have described is the real reason that people become hams. You were bitten by the bug, and it sounds like no one was going to stop you from becoming one. Yessir that's about right certainly in my case. I too was hooked early in life, although it took a long time to finally get my ticket. I'm just P****d that I didn't get it years earlier. Sorry about the previous rant but once in awhile somebody around here bumps my babble button and there I go again . . You bumped the bloomin' button again Coslo. Rant Mode = ON I didn't exactly leap toward the FCC office to take the test either, far from it. One problem being that I had a number of other interests too like photography, Boy Scouts, model railroading and GIRLS. They all absobred my time and what little money I could scrounge via paper routes and such. While my folks cheerfully funded Scouting they did not fund any of my other hot buttons. Probably because they knew I'd drive them broke if they did. They did encourage my pursuit of ham radio though, I guess they thought it had educatinal value and it kept me off the streets and outta trouble. The latter didn't work very well though. I never had an Elmer, I had no idea how to connect with a ham club when I was 10-12 so I scrounged books and magazines about ham radio and tuned the bands with my junk radios. When I finally got to high school I found a bunch of hams and and "the rest is history". Took me about five years to go from my encounter with W3EAN to passing the Novice test and getting on the air with it. Which was in a much different regime than we have today. The Novice license was a stick and carrot ticket with the emphasis on the stick. We had 365 days from the date the license was issued to upgrade to a 13WPM General or get booted out of ham radio. Of the dozens of local Novices I knew I don't recall of any who failed to upgrade or bitched about the code tests. I think I'm very typical of the kids who got into the hobby back then and there were great heaps of us. The adults who took up ham radio back then were a different story, they had the money and they had control of their lives which us kids did not have. Net result today is that us kids from back then are obviously the grouchy old farts of today and almost universally have disdain to one degree or another for the current state of affairs in the giveaway requirements for licensing. It's not that we're mentally frozen in time at all, that's 100% BS. It's because we've been there and done it all and we know what works and what does not given the fact that except for the current licensing nonsense ham radio hasn't changed nearly as much as many would try to have us believe. Fuhgeddit, we see right thru it. Im convinced that events in the future will prove us right. Today we have a "bloat the numbers at any cost" game which is doomed to backfire eventually. The big question is how badly it will backfire and how much damage will have been be done before it happens. The history of this country over last couple decades is chock full of eamples of backing away from failed giveaways. It's only a matter of time until ham radio gets it's turn. Whew: Got that one out of my system too. Thanks Mike. The idea of "recruiting" people into the ARS is likely never going to work - at least as far as snagging people that are thinking about a hobby, but don't know what to pick up. I agree right down the line. You can't "recruit" anybody into a hobby unless some kernel of interest already exists in the mind of the "target" and even then it's a dicey proposition in most cases. It's like trying to herd cats, doesn't work. The best we can do is toss out PR to raise the awareness of ham radio and let the chips fall where they might. The League is in the right direction in this respect. If you wanna be a Ham - you *know* it. Yupper but how one gets there varies hugely to the point where all 670,000 of us have probably taken 300,000 different routes. Compare the way Dee got into the hobby vs. my route. How different can they get?! A local oldster was inquiring as to when his license expired, because he couldn't find his F.C.C. Wallpaper. We help him figure it out. We need to keep the geezers on the air. I love talking to them. I hope someone is looking out for me when I'm 91! They're all treasures we have a responsibilty to protect. Often from themselves. Heh. - Mike KB3EIA - w3rv |
N2EY:
Oh forget I mentioned anything--lets just chat with the younger guys under 35--they are more interesting anyway... Hey, when are they going to get here? John wrote in message oups.com... John Smith wrote: N2EY: You should be ashamed of yourself- Why? -you damn well know young cw'ers are rarer than... How would you know, John? You've told us you don't use Morse Code. So how would you know how many young hams there are using the mode? You've made fun of the mode and those who use it. A young ham who uses and likes Morse Code would probably just avoid you, rather than get involved in a confrontation with you. Most are no-code licenses! How do you know? Here's a clue: - Age information in the FCC database is incomplete. The birthdate of some but not all licensees are in there. The times when age information was collected are such that the ages of young hams may be underrepresented in the database. - Not all Technicians are "nocodetest". The FCC has been renewing all Technician and Technician Plus licenses as Technician for more than 5 years, and in less than 5 more years there will be no more Technician Pluses at all, because they will all have either expired or been renewed as Technicians. In that same time period, Novices who pass Element 2 get Technician licenses, not Technician Pluses. And any Technician who passes Element 1 is still shown as Technician on the database. - You haven't defined "young" - does it mean hams under age 20? 30? 40? Does it mean hams licensed less than a year? 5 years? 10 years? Perhaps you have simply concluded that the code test is the boogeyman responsible for all problems in the amateur radio service, and that when it's gone, all will be well. - wrote in message ups.com... John Smith wrote: I just support removing code because no new hams are using it in any meaningful numbers. I've seen plenty of new hams use Morse Code on the air. And plenty who use other modes. What information do you have to show that "no new hams are using it in any meaningful numbers." The new state of the art hams are interested in hooking a modem up and interfacing the radio to the computer... Some are - some aren't. Hook up a code key and they loose interest immediately... Depends on how you present it. And the word is "lose".... Now, a bunch of old guys who are computer illiterate have no choice than to try to amuse themselves with a damn key... Well, that leaves me out, because I'm neither old nor computer illiterate. "Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... John, You could make the same assertion about a driver's license. Memorize some rules and take a road test. Do you support eliminating motor vehicle tests? Perhaps only for college educated folks? Might it make sense to require folks to know where the band edges are, or would you think it doesn't matter. If you travel to the U.K., do you think it might be smart to understand that they drive on the *left* side of the road rather than the right? Even if you are a pedestrian? I suspect you'd be upset if someone started transmitting on your Direct Tv frequencies and killed your reception. There are rules and folks wishing licenses are supposed to demonstrate some knowledge of those rules. These rules do not require the calculus, yet even a college grad has to demonstrate some knowledge of them. 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA "John Smith" wrote in message ... ... the amateur tests are a trivial problem to men with real educations... ... the cw part makes as much sense as learning to play a "jew's harp"--a lot of sense if you wish to, none if you don't... Warmest regards, John |
|
John Smith wrote: Kelly: Yep. Personal attacks, don't discuss what is not in your personal self-interests. Call those with differing ideas a troll, deny a problem exists, etc, etc, etc... Gee, where have I seen this behavior before... John (yawn) Zzzzzz . . . |
|
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:24:54 -0400, Dee Flint wrote:
Wait 'till they hit the course or assignment that throws them back into the mortal realm. We've all hit that point at one time or another.... And it's a real shock the first time it happens. Can you say grad school "Advanced Atomic Physics" ? ggg -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane |
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 21:03:51 -0400, Cmd Buzz Corey wrote:
How many women get their pilots license as compared to men? I don't know. I'll have to ask our friend Jane who owns and flys her own air taxi service.... Ever go to a quilting meeting? How many men did you see there? Quilting, I have no idea. I do know that our friend Paul is one of the better local crochet artists - he does specialty work such as Jewish skullcaps with intricate designs and teaches same at local congregations. Ever go to an antique radio swap meet? You will find a lot more men collecting and fixing old radios than women. One of the more prominent collectors and restorers of WW-II-era military radios is a woman - who is also the communications chief for one of the major California cities. Do you collect dolls, tea sets, china dishes? No? Lots of women do. As do most of the dealers in that field, who are overwhelmingly male. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane |
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 21:11:41 GMT, robert casey wrote:
Perhaps what bothers some people the most about the code test is that it isn't something most people already know. And it isn't something that can be learned by reading a book, watching a video, etc. It's a skill, not "book learning". That makes it a real PITA to people who are good at book learnin' and not so hot at motor skills. Those are the same people who get As in Chemistry but Ds in Chem Lab..... -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane |
- Not all Technicians are "nocodetest". The FCC has been renewing all Technician and Technician Plus licenses as Technician for more than 5 years, and in less than 5 more years there will be no more Technician Pluses at all, because they will all have either expired or been renewed as Technicians. In that same time period, Novices who pass Element 2 get Technician licenses, not Technician Pluses. And any Technician who passes Element 1 is still shown as Technician on the database. I used to be an "old" tech plus. Partly to avoid the above ambiguity I upgraded. Could have just got a paperwork only upgrade to general, but decided to go for extra. |
John Smith wrote: Kelly: Yep. I think you are unaware that some of us out here have our licenses, got our radios fired up, tune the bands--and it is nothing but the same old, same old... We do see all the rag chews, boring rants, same operators, same gripes, same rants, same little groups, same ideas, same conversations as yesterday--day, after day, after day... I am sure a lot of 'em are sitting there waiting for us poor ignorant ops to "get with it" and "come to the realization" of just how vital and interesting this all is and SHOULD BE to us... Well I am one which does not and cannot appreciate it... if the fault lies with me and my interests and views--so be it... If I am wrong and all these young guys just can't wait to get a license and startup a QSO so they hear these old guys fart and rant--well, that is just a short coming of mine--and, those young dynamic guys who are running the world right now and providing new ideas, designs and methods are probably on the way here right now to find the old farts.... I'll just sit here and wait for 'em, I need a change... maybe I can chat with one or two of 'em--if they can quit their hero worship of you guys long enough... grin Dayum "John", YEAH, absolutely, boycott RRAP, refuse to post again until the thirtysometings roll in! All in favor say aye . . ? John wrote in message oups.com... Mike Coslo wrote: wrote: Michael Coslo wrote: . . . The ham was Gene Reynolds W3EAN who went out of his way to answer my unending stream of questions that night. I probably drove him nuts but I think he enjoyed it. There was no turning back after that night, I was gonna become a ham. I enjoyed the story, Brian. I've enjoyed the whole trip Michael. But I gotta break in here. What you have described is the real reason that people become hams. You were bitten by the bug, and it sounds like no one was going to stop you from becoming one. Yessir that's about right certainly in my case. I too was hooked early in life, although it took a long time to finally get my ticket. I'm just P****d that I didn't get it years earlier. Sorry about the previous rant but once in awhile somebody around here bumps my babble button and there I go again . . You bumped the bloomin' button again Coslo. Rant Mode = ON I didn't exactly leap toward the FCC office to take the test either, far from it. One problem being that I had a number of other interests too like photography, Boy Scouts, model railroading and GIRLS. They all absobred my time and what little money I could scrounge via paper routes and such. While my folks cheerfully funded Scouting they did not fund any of my other hot buttons. Probably because they knew I'd drive them broke if they did. They did encourage my pursuit of ham radio though, I guess they thought it had educatinal value and it kept me off the streets and outta trouble. The latter didn't work very well though. I never had an Elmer, I had no idea how to connect with a ham club when I was 10-12 so I scrounged books and magazines about ham radio and tuned the bands with my junk radios. When I finally got to high school I found a bunch of hams and and "the rest is history". Took me about five years to go from my encounter with W3EAN to passing the Novice test and getting on the air with it. Which was in a much different regime than we have today. The Novice license was a stick and carrot ticket with the emphasis on the stick. We had 365 days from the date the license was issued to upgrade to a 13WPM General or get booted out of ham radio. Of the dozens of local Novices I knew I don't recall of any who failed to upgrade or bitched about the code tests. I think I'm very typical of the kids who got into the hobby back then and there were great heaps of us. The adults who took up ham radio back then were a different story, they had the money and they had control of their lives which us kids did not have. Net result today is that us kids from back then are obviously the grouchy old farts of today and almost universally have disdain to one degree or another for the current state of affairs in the giveaway requirements for licensing. It's not that we're mentally frozen in time at all, that's 100% BS. It's because we've been there and done it all and we know what works and what does not given the fact that except for the current licensing nonsense ham radio hasn't changed nearly as much as many would try to have us believe. Fuhgeddit, we see right thru it. Im convinced that events in the future will prove us right. Today we have a "bloat the numbers at any cost" game which is doomed to backfire eventually. The big question is how badly it will backfire and how much damage will have been be done before it happens. The history of this country over last couple decades is chock full of eamples of backing away from failed giveaways. It's only a matter of time until ham radio gets it's turn. Whew: Got that one out of my system too. Thanks Mike. The idea of "recruiting" people into the ARS is likely never going to work - at least as far as snagging people that are thinking about a hobby, but don't know what to pick up. I agree right down the line. You can't "recruit" anybody into a hobby unless some kernel of interest already exists in the mind of the "target" and even then it's a dicey proposition in most cases. It's like trying to herd cats, doesn't work. The best we can do is toss out PR to raise the awareness of ham radio and let the chips fall where they might. The League is in the right direction in this respect. If you wanna be a Ham - you *know* it. Yupper but how one gets there varies hugely to the point where all 670,000 of us have probably taken 300,000 different routes. Compare the way Dee got into the hobby vs. my route. How different can they get?! A local oldster was inquiring as to when his license expired, because he couldn't find his F.C.C. Wallpaper. We help him figure it out. We need to keep the geezers on the air. I love talking to them. I hope someone is looking out for me when I'm 91! They're all treasures we have a responsibilty to protect. Often from themselves. Heh. - Mike KB3EIA - w3rv |
Phil:
My gawd, the bands are crawling with them, there must be heavy congestion somewhere with 'em all trying to communicate... I think my radio has stopped working--can't find a one--heck, perhaps some chauvinist engineer designed this piece of junk and it would pass female voices though the audio stages--SOMETHING IS WRONG!!! John "Phil Kane" wrote in message ganews.com... On 15 Jun 2005 17:01:18 -0700, wrote: In all my 43 years in engineering I've met a grand total of four woman engineers, two MEs, one EE and a Chem E. In my 50 years in engineering I've =dated= more women engineers than you seem to have met, was engaged to one (nuclear engineer) and married another (EE). In my wife's office alone there are more than 4 =PEs= on her floor, including the chief of the structural engineering section (imagine that, a lady tower engineer). Had my wife gone through the paperwork as she talked about twenty years ago she, too, would have been a PE. Our contesting club alone has three female members, an old girlfriend is a ham and I met W3CUL. Out of Lord only knows how many engineers and hams I've met over the years. In our club, the largest radio club in the state if not in the Pacific Northwest, about 1/3 of the hams are women, and of them, about half are active on the air in some fashion or other. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:25 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
RadioBanter.com