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Navy Radiomen
by Bob 'Dex' Armstrong
In the old gravel-gut boat service, your only link with the civilized world was via the radio shack. A cubby hole on Requin aft of the scope wells in the control room... It was the home of the spark shufflers. If you were in tight with a radioman, you could get ball scores. Sewer pipe sailors lost touch with the teams they followed... A hazard common to submarine sailors and people who take a moon walk and miss the ride home. Actually, we lost touch with just about everything. In the war movies when they come across some guy who claims to be an American, they ask him questions only an American could answer. If they had picked me up and asked me anything but (A) The names of Roy's and Gene's horses (B) Who won World War II and (C) Blaze Starr's bust size, I would have been one 'up the creek' sonuvabitch. Hell, we didn't know Jack Kennedy was the president until we snorkeled a day later. Only a complete idiot would make a bet with a radioman. Chances were, the radioman had the final score before you tossed your wampum on the mess table. I remember one great night brought to us by the spark pushers in the radio shack. We had finished whatever nonsense they sent us out to do and were making turns for home. The Old Man opened the showers... Guys were bumming razor blades and rooting around in side lockers for something that would pass for a towel. Next thing you know, the foo-foo juice came out. Now there's a myth that all smoke boat sailors eventually bought into, sooner or later... Aqua Velva was never meant to disguise poor personal hygene. No matter how much of the stuff you poured on a dungaree shirt you had been inside of for two weeks, you were still one disgustingly foul smelling sonuvabitch. You could spray French perfume on an engineman with a fire hose and buzzards would still circle around the ******* when he went topside. But I digress... A group of us were sitting around in the crew's mess drinking coffee and ragging guys heading fore and aft. A radioman came in and told us we were in for one helluva good laugh. He monkeyed around with the RBO and patched it into something in the radio shack. For those of you who never had the pleasure of riding diesel boats or other seagoing steel-hulled garbage scows, I must explain something here. You could make phone calls from a ship at sea. Here is how it worked. The radioman would raise someone ashore called a 'marine operator'. Then the radioman would give the marine operator the name and phone number of whoever the bluejacket aboard ship wanted to call. The marine operator would then place a collect call and when the party answered and accepted the charges, the marine operator would form a radio link with the ship and 'Bill the Bluejacket' could talk to his sweetie. From sweetie to the marine operator was private and confidential... From the marine operator to Barnicle Bill, it was up for grabs... Great evening entertainment. "Poopsie, is that you?" "Yes ducky doo, it's me." "You miss me, peach blossom?" "Oh yes... YES, darling!" "Miss me a lot?" "Oh, I miss you soooo much I can't wait to hold you and..." "Okay darling... Are you going to meet the ship?" "No sweetheart, I parked the car in the pier head lot... Keys are under the mat." "Why aren't you meeting the boat, sweetheart?" "Oh, it was supposed to be a suprise... If you must know, the kids are spending the night with the Webbers. I bought a new nightie and I figured we'd break it in tonight." The animals would cheer, "LET'S HEAR IT FOR MAMMA AND HER NEW NIGHTIE!!" And so it went. Bluejackets phoning in after six months in the Med... Great entertainment. "Darlin' can't wait... Just you and me and a can of Crisco!" We heard it all... It was great... Laugh after laugh. A very memorable evening... Best and cheapest fun we ever had on Requin. There were times... Moments that we took for granted and that passed with little notice. It's funny how they come back late in life when you have the time to reshuffle your memories... The collected moments that constitute your life. Radiomen linked us with the world. Another thing we just took for granted and that was so damned important looking back. Never thanked them... Should have. Great guys, all of them. |
"KØHB" wrote in message ink.net... by Bob 'Dex' Armstrong In the old gravel-gut boat service, ////drivel flushed///// Poor Hans. The guys down at the Legion Hall have forbidden Hans from telling any more of his borrrrrrrrring sea tales. |
"KØHB" wrote in message ink.net... by Bob 'Dex' Armstrong In the old gravel-gut boat service, your only link with the civilized world was via the radio shack. A cubby hole on Requin aft of the scope wells in the control room... It was the home of the spark shufflers. If you were in tight with a radioman, you could get ball scores. Sewer pipe sailors lost touch with the teams they followed... A hazard common to submarine sailors and people who take a moon walk and miss the ride home. Actually, we lost touch with just about everything. In the war movies when they come across some guy who claims to be an American, they ask him questions only an American could answer. If they had picked me up and asked me anything but (A) The names of Roy's and Gene's horses (B) Who won World War II and (C) Blaze Starr's bust size, I would have been one 'up the creek' sonuvabitch. Hell, we didn't know Jack Kennedy was the president until we snorkeled a day later. Only a complete idiot would make a bet with a radioman. Chances were, the radioman had the final score before you tossed your wampum on the mess table. I remember one great night brought to us by the spark pushers in the radio shack. We had finished whatever nonsense they sent us out to do and were making turns for home. The Old Man opened the showers... Guys were bumming razor blades and rooting around in side lockers for something that would pass for a towel. Next thing you know, the foo-foo juice came out. Now there's a myth that all smoke boat sailors eventually bought into, sooner or later... Aqua Velva was never meant to disguise poor personal hygene. No matter how much of the stuff you poured on a dungaree shirt you had been inside of for two weeks, you were still one disgustingly foul smelling sonuvabitch. You could spray French perfume on an engineman with a fire hose and buzzards would still circle around the ******* when he went topside. But I digress... A group of us were sitting around in the crew's mess drinking coffee and ragging guys heading fore and aft. A radioman came in and told us we were in for one helluva good laugh. He monkeyed around with the RBO and patched it into something in the radio shack. For those of you who never had the pleasure of riding diesel boats or other seagoing steel-hulled garbage scows, I must explain something here. You could make phone calls from a ship at sea. Here is how it worked. The radioman would raise someone ashore called a 'marine operator'. Then the radioman would give the marine operator the name and phone number of whoever the bluejacket aboard ship wanted to call. The marine operator would then place a collect call and when the party answered and accepted the charges, the marine operator would form a radio link with the ship and 'Bill the Bluejacket' could talk to his sweetie. From sweetie to the marine operator was private and confidential... From the marine operator to Barnicle Bill, it was up for grabs... Great evening entertainment. "Poopsie, is that you?" "Yes ducky doo, it's me." "You miss me, peach blossom?" "Oh yes... YES, darling!" "Miss me a lot?" "Oh, I miss you soooo much I can't wait to hold you and..." "Okay darling... Are you going to meet the ship?" "No sweetheart, I parked the car in the pier head lot... Keys are under the mat." "Why aren't you meeting the boat, sweetheart?" "Oh, it was supposed to be a suprise... If you must know, the kids are spending the night with the Webbers. I bought a new nightie and I figured we'd break it in tonight." The animals would cheer, "LET'S HEAR IT FOR MAMMA AND HER NEW NIGHTIE!!" And so it went. Bluejackets phoning in after six months in the Med... Great entertainment. "Darlin' can't wait... Just you and me and a can of Crisco!" We heard it all... It was great... Laugh after laugh. A very memorable evening... Best and cheapest fun we ever had on Requin. There were times... Moments that we took for granted and that passed with little notice. It's funny how they come back late in life when you have the time to reshuffle your memories... The collected moments that constitute your life. Radiomen linked us with the world. Another thing we just took for granted and that was so damned important looking back. Never thanked them... Should have. Great guys, all of them. Hello, Hans You should have seen the RM1s on Guam when they wanted to find out results as to who made chief. Grab the orderwire to Hono. Ask for a patch to San Diego. Ask for a patch to Washington .... Had the results in 15 minutes LOL :)) 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA |
"Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... "KØHB" wrote in message ink.net... by Bob 'Dex' Armstrong In the old gravel-gut boat service, your only link with the civilized world was via the radio shack. A cubby hole on Requin aft of the scope wells in the control room... It was the home of the spark shufflers. If you were in tight with a radioman, you could get ball scores. Sewer pipe sailors lost touch with the teams they followed... A hazard common to submarine sailors and people who take a moon walk and miss the ride home. Actually, we lost touch with just about everything. In the war movies when they come across some guy who claims to be an American, they ask him questions only an American could answer. If they had picked me up and asked me anything but (A) The names of Roy's and Gene's horses (B) Who won World War II and (C) Blaze Starr's bust size, I would have been one 'up the creek' sonuvabitch. Hell, we didn't know Jack Kennedy was the president until we snorkeled a day later. Only a complete idiot would make a bet with a radioman. Chances were, the radioman had the final score before you tossed your wampum on the mess table. I remember one great night brought to us by the spark pushers in the radio shack. We had finished whatever nonsense they sent us out to do and were making turns for home. The Old Man opened the showers... Guys were bumming razor blades and rooting around in side lockers for something that would pass for a towel. Next thing you know, the foo-foo juice came out. Now there's a myth that all smoke boat sailors eventually bought into, sooner or later... Aqua Velva was never meant to disguise poor personal hygene. No matter how much of the stuff you poured on a dungaree shirt you had been inside of for two weeks, you were still one disgustingly foul smelling sonuvabitch. You could spray French perfume on an engineman with a fire hose and buzzards would still circle around the ******* when he went topside. But I digress... A group of us were sitting around in the crew's mess drinking coffee and ragging guys heading fore and aft. A radioman came in and told us we were in for one helluva good laugh. He monkeyed around with the RBO and patched it into something in the radio shack. For those of you who never had the pleasure of riding diesel boats or other seagoing steel-hulled garbage scows, I must explain something here. You could make phone calls from a ship at sea. Here is how it worked. The radioman would raise someone ashore called a 'marine operator'. Then the radioman would give the marine operator the name and phone number of whoever the bluejacket aboard ship wanted to call. The marine operator would then place a collect call and when the party answered and accepted the charges, the marine operator would form a radio link with the ship and 'Bill the Bluejacket' could talk to his sweetie. From sweetie to the marine operator was private and confidential... From the marine operator to Barnicle Bill, it was up for grabs... Great evening entertainment. "Poopsie, is that you?" "Yes ducky doo, it's me." "You miss me, peach blossom?" "Oh yes... YES, darling!" "Miss me a lot?" "Oh, I miss you soooo much I can't wait to hold you and..." "Okay darling... Are you going to meet the ship?" "No sweetheart, I parked the car in the pier head lot... Keys are under the mat." "Why aren't you meeting the boat, sweetheart?" "Oh, it was supposed to be a suprise... If you must know, the kids are spending the night with the Webbers. I bought a new nightie and I figured we'd break it in tonight." The animals would cheer, "LET'S HEAR IT FOR MAMMA AND HER NEW NIGHTIE!!" And so it went. Bluejackets phoning in after six months in the Med... Great entertainment. "Darlin' can't wait... Just you and me and a can of Crisco!" We heard it all... It was great... Laugh after laugh. A very memorable evening... Best and cheapest fun we ever had on Requin. There were times... Moments that we took for granted and that passed with little notice. It's funny how they come back late in life when you have the time to reshuffle your memories... The collected moments that constitute your life. Radiomen linked us with the world. Another thing we just took for granted and that was so damned important looking back. Never thanked them... Should have. Great guys, all of them. Hello, Hans You should have seen the RM1s on Guam when they wanted to find out results as to who made chief. Grab the orderwire to Hono. Ask for a patch to San Diego. Ask for a patch to Washington .... Had the results in 15 minutes LOL :)) 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA I knew two guys who were court martialed for doing exactly what you say. Tom |
.... that almost makes me miss the ancient drums my
great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-etc. ancestors used to use to communicate with in the primordial jungles... I wonder if we could bring those back to? ... perhaps require the new licensees to beat out a fancy tempo on one of those turkeys before we gave 'em a license! evil-grin Warmest regards, John "Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... "KØHB" wrote in message ink.net... by Bob 'Dex' Armstrong In the old gravel-gut boat service, your only link with the civilized world was via the radio shack. A cubby hole on Requin aft of the scope wells in the control room... It was the home of the spark shufflers. If you were in tight with a radioman, you could get ball scores. Sewer pipe sailors lost touch with the teams they followed... A hazard common to submarine sailors and people who take a moon walk and miss the ride home. Actually, we lost touch with just about everything. In the war movies when they come across some guy who claims to be an American, they ask him questions only an American could answer. If they had picked me up and asked me anything but (A) The names of Roy's and Gene's horses (B) Who won World War II and (C) Blaze Starr's bust size, I would have been one 'up the creek' sonuvabitch. Hell, we didn't know Jack Kennedy was the president until we snorkeled a day later. Only a complete idiot would make a bet with a radioman. Chances were, the radioman had the final score before you tossed your wampum on the mess table. I remember one great night brought to us by the spark pushers in the radio shack. We had finished whatever nonsense they sent us out to do and were making turns for home. The Old Man opened the showers... Guys were bumming razor blades and rooting around in side lockers for something that would pass for a towel. Next thing you know, the foo-foo juice came out. Now there's a myth that all smoke boat sailors eventually bought into, sooner or later... Aqua Velva was never meant to disguise poor personal hygene. No matter how much of the stuff you poured on a dungaree shirt you had been inside of for two weeks, you were still one disgustingly foul smelling sonuvabitch. You could spray French perfume on an engineman with a fire hose and buzzards would still circle around the ******* when he went topside. But I digress... A group of us were sitting around in the crew's mess drinking coffee and ragging guys heading fore and aft. A radioman came in and told us we were in for one helluva good laugh. He monkeyed around with the RBO and patched it into something in the radio shack. For those of you who never had the pleasure of riding diesel boats or other seagoing steel-hulled garbage scows, I must explain something here. You could make phone calls from a ship at sea. Here is how it worked. The radioman would raise someone ashore called a 'marine operator'. Then the radioman would give the marine operator the name and phone number of whoever the bluejacket aboard ship wanted to call. The marine operator would then place a collect call and when the party answered and accepted the charges, the marine operator would form a radio link with the ship and 'Bill the Bluejacket' could talk to his sweetie. From sweetie to the marine operator was private and confidential... From the marine operator to Barnicle Bill, it was up for grabs... Great evening entertainment. "Poopsie, is that you?" "Yes ducky doo, it's me." "You miss me, peach blossom?" "Oh yes... YES, darling!" "Miss me a lot?" "Oh, I miss you soooo much I can't wait to hold you and..." "Okay darling... Are you going to meet the ship?" "No sweetheart, I parked the car in the pier head lot... Keys are under the mat." "Why aren't you meeting the boat, sweetheart?" "Oh, it was supposed to be a suprise... If you must know, the kids are spending the night with the Webbers. I bought a new nightie and I figured we'd break it in tonight." The animals would cheer, "LET'S HEAR IT FOR MAMMA AND HER NEW NIGHTIE!!" And so it went. Bluejackets phoning in after six months in the Med... Great entertainment. "Darlin' can't wait... Just you and me and a can of Crisco!" We heard it all... It was great... Laugh after laugh. A very memorable evening... Best and cheapest fun we ever had on Requin. There were times... Moments that we took for granted and that passed with little notice. It's funny how they come back late in life when you have the time to reshuffle your memories... The collected moments that constitute your life. Radiomen linked us with the world. Another thing we just took for granted and that was so damned important looking back. Never thanked them... Should have. Great guys, all of them. Hello, Hans You should have seen the RM1s on Guam when they wanted to find out results as to who made chief. Grab the orderwire to Hono. Ask for a patch to San Diego. Ask for a patch to Washington .... Had the results in 15 minutes LOL :)) 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA |
K=D8HB wrote: by Bob 'Dex' Armstrong And so it went. Bluejackets phoning in after six months in the Med... Gre= at entertainment. "Darlin' can't wait... Just you and me and a can of Crisco!" .. . . a can of CRISCO??! No wonder the Navy keeps these guys underwater . .=20 w3rv |
"KØHB" wrote in message ink.net... Great guys, all of them. Excellent Hans, In the Army those in the know knew you had to know; A. Supply Sgt. B. Chief Cook. C. Commo Sgt. Not necessarily in that order. Dan/W4NTI |
"Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... Hello, Hans You should have seen the RM1s on Guam when they wanted to find out results as to who made chief. Grab the orderwire to Hono. Ask for a patch to San Diego. Ask for a patch to Washington .... Had the results in 15 minutes LOL :)) 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA I was so far out in the boonies on one or more TDY I had to use my KWM2-A HF transciever for a Shortwave receiver to keep the "troops" entertained. (sure liked those big crystal packs).. hi Dan/W4NTI |
"Tom" wrote in message ... "Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... "KØHB" wrote in message ink.net... by Bob 'Dex' Armstrong In the old gravel-gut boat service, your only link with the civilized world was via the radio shack. A cubby hole on Requin aft of the scope wells in the control room... It was the home of the spark shufflers. If you were in tight with a radioman, you could get ball scores. Sewer pipe sailors lost touch with the teams they followed... A hazard common to submarine sailors and people who take a moon walk and miss the ride home. Actually, we lost touch with just about everything. In the war movies when they come across some guy who claims to be an American, they ask him questions only an American could answer. If they had picked me up and asked me anything but (A) The names of Roy's and Gene's horses (B) Who won World War II and (C) Blaze Starr's bust size, I would have been one 'up the creek' sonuvabitch. Hell, we didn't know Jack Kennedy was the president until we snorkeled a day later. Only a complete idiot would make a bet with a radioman. Chances were, the radioman had the final score before you tossed your wampum on the mess table. I remember one great night brought to us by the spark pushers in the radio shack. We had finished whatever nonsense they sent us out to do and were making turns for home. The Old Man opened the showers... Guys were bumming razor blades and rooting around in side lockers for something that would pass for a towel. Next thing you know, the foo-foo juice came out. Now there's a myth that all smoke boat sailors eventually bought into, sooner or later... Aqua Velva was never meant to disguise poor personal hygene. No matter how much of the stuff you poured on a dungaree shirt you had been inside of for two weeks, you were still one disgustingly foul smelling sonuvabitch. You could spray French perfume on an engineman with a fire hose and buzzards would still circle around the ******* when he went topside. But I digress... A group of us were sitting around in the crew's mess drinking coffee and ragging guys heading fore and aft. A radioman came in and told us we were in for one helluva good laugh. He monkeyed around with the RBO and patched it into something in the radio shack. For those of you who never had the pleasure of riding diesel boats or other seagoing steel-hulled garbage scows, I must explain something here. You could make phone calls from a ship at sea. Here is how it worked. The radioman would raise someone ashore called a 'marine operator'. Then the radioman would give the marine operator the name and phone number of whoever the bluejacket aboard ship wanted to call. The marine operator would then place a collect call and when the party answered and accepted the charges, the marine operator would form a radio link with the ship and 'Bill the Bluejacket' could talk to his sweetie. From sweetie to the marine operator was private and confidential... From the marine operator to Barnicle Bill, it was up for grabs... Great evening entertainment. "Poopsie, is that you?" "Yes ducky doo, it's me." "You miss me, peach blossom?" "Oh yes... YES, darling!" "Miss me a lot?" "Oh, I miss you soooo much I can't wait to hold you and..." "Okay darling... Are you going to meet the ship?" "No sweetheart, I parked the car in the pier head lot... Keys are under the mat." "Why aren't you meeting the boat, sweetheart?" "Oh, it was supposed to be a suprise... If you must know, the kids are spending the night with the Webbers. I bought a new nightie and I figured we'd break it in tonight." The animals would cheer, "LET'S HEAR IT FOR MAMMA AND HER NEW NIGHTIE!!" And so it went. Bluejackets phoning in after six months in the Med... Great entertainment. "Darlin' can't wait... Just you and me and a can of Crisco!" We heard it all... It was great... Laugh after laugh. A very memorable evening... Best and cheapest fun we ever had on Requin. There were times... Moments that we took for granted and that passed with little notice. It's funny how they come back late in life when you have the time to reshuffle your memories... The collected moments that constitute your life. Radiomen linked us with the world. Another thing we just took for granted and that was so damned important looking back. Never thanked them... Should have. Great guys, all of them. Hello, Hans You should have seen the RM1s on Guam when they wanted to find out results as to who made chief. Grab the orderwire to Hono. Ask for a patch to San Diego. Ask for a patch to Washington .... Had the results in 15 minutes LOL :)) 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA I knew two guys who were court martialed for doing exactly what you say. Tom Thats when you need to know the Company Clerk.... hi. Dan/W4NTI |
K=D8HB wrote:
by Bob 'Dex' Armstrong (great story snipped) Great guys, all of them. Thanks, Hans. Keep 'em coming! 73 de Jim, N2EY |
From sweetie to the marine operator was private and confidential... From the marine operator to Barnicle Bill, it was up for grabs... Great evening entertainment. "Poopsie, is that you?" "Yes ducky doo, it's me." I'd add: "and everyone aboard the sub. Not much privacy aboard a crowded sub; they all can hear this". Thus warning her not to give too much detail on private matters..." People on a sub would have to know, at least after the first call to someone's sweetie was placed.... |
John Smith wrote:
... that almost makes me miss the ancient drums my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-etc. ancestors used to use to communicate with in the primordial jungles... I wonder if we could bring those back to? ... perhaps require the new licensees to beat out a fancy tempo on one of those turkeys before we gave 'em a license! evil-grin Imagine the drum DX contests those people in the jungle used to have. :-) Though everyone had only one air "channel" to share. Must have been some bad QRM at times.... |
Robert:
You paint a good visual picture--good humor... grin Warmest regards, John "robert casey" wrote in message nk.net... John Smith wrote: ... that almost makes me miss the ancient drums my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-etc. ancestors used to use to communicate with in the primordial jungles... I wonder if we could bring those back to? ... perhaps require the new licensees to beat out a fancy tempo on one of those turkeys before we gave 'em a license! evil-grin Imagine the drum DX contests those people in the jungle used to have. :-) Though everyone had only one air "channel" to share. Must have been some bad QRM at times.... |
"John Smith" wrote in message ... ... that almost makes me miss the ancient drums my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-etc. ancestors used to use to communicate with in the primordial jungles... I wonder if we could bring those back to? ... perhaps require the new licensees to beat out a fancy tempo on one of those turkeys before we gave 'em a license! evil-grin Warmest regards, John Perhaps, John But consider that some of us can send and receive cw faster than most folks can type. I know you may be good at "cut and paste", but that doesn't necessarily cut it LOL. Sure, voice appears faster, but when you get names and addresses that are hard to pronounce .... Not saying that CW is the best, but some folks better come up with something superior to AM and FM. There are a number of modes, but most folks want to "talk". That won't cut it for 85 watt moonbounce on 24 GHz. :) 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA ps - when I talk send and receive cw faster than some folks type, I'm not talking a nice, leisurely chat at 30 or 35 words per minute ... |
It was never about anyone stopping you from sending cw was it...
It is about stopping you from forcing others to learn cw when they would never use it... Always when one is being forced to do something they do not wish to, they should question everything in sight... just as you began when you thought someone was going to force you to quit... .... let's at least keep my comment about the drums straight... Warmest regards, John "Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... "John Smith" wrote in message ... ... that almost makes me miss the ancient drums my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-etc. ancestors used to use to communicate with in the primordial jungles... I wonder if we could bring those back to? ... perhaps require the new licensees to beat out a fancy tempo on one of those turkeys before we gave 'em a license! evil-grin Warmest regards, John Perhaps, John But consider that some of us can send and receive cw faster than most folks can type. I know you may be good at "cut and paste", but that doesn't necessarily cut it LOL. Sure, voice appears faster, but when you get names and addresses that are hard to pronounce .... Not saying that CW is the best, but some folks better come up with something superior to AM and FM. There are a number of modes, but most folks want to "talk". That won't cut it for 85 watt moonbounce on 24 GHz. :) 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA ps - when I talk send and receive cw faster than some folks type, I'm not talking a nice, leisurely chat at 30 or 35 words per minute ... |
John Smith wrote: It was never about anyone stopping you from sending cw was it... It is about stopping you from forcing others to learn cw when they would never use it... Always when one is being forced to do something they do not wish to, they should question everything in sight... just as you began when you thought someone was going to force you to quit... ... let's at least keep my comment about the drums straight... By the very nature of "testing" we are "forced" to do something we generally don't want to do. When I took my General, I had no intent on doing any RTTY operation yet had to know RTTY theory and practice. Good news is that now you don't HAVE to "learn" anything...Just memorize those quesitons and answers...Whish is what gives me a good laugh with the more arrogant NCT types (read that Lennie...) They are "OK" with open pools and memorized tests, but they hate memorized sounds...what's up with that? Sheesh...the FCC even delete the requirement to demonstrate SENDING the Code. There's no more work to memorizing the Code than there is to memorizing the written questions...Unless you have a VALID medical decicit. Steve, K4YZ |
John Smith wrote:
It was never about anyone stopping you from sending cw was it... A few anticode folks have stated they want Morse Code *use* by hams to end, not just the test. They are a small minority, but they do exist. It is about stopping you from forcing others to learn cw when they would never use it... Who is "forced" to learn Morse Code? It's a requirement if someone wants an FCC-issued amateur license with HF privileges, that's all. Always when one is being forced to do something they do not wish to, they should question everything in sight... just as you began when you thought someone was going to force you to quit... The argument you present boils down to this: If someone doesn't want to use Morse Code in ham radio, they shouldn't be required to learn it just to pass a test (even a simple, basic test) to get a ham radio license. Those who choose to use it can learn it on their own. Is that about right? The problem is that the same argument can be made against almost everything in the written tests. For example, if someone doesn't intend to use certain bands, why are they forced to learn the band edges of every band their license allows? If someone doesn't intend to use more than a few watts of transmitted power, why must they learn all that RF exposure stuff? Indeed, if someone doesn't intend to homebrew, why are they *forced* to learn all that theory stuff? Sure, the written tests look easy to someone with a background in radio, electronics, computers or other related fields. But to someone from an unrelated field, they're not easy. Suppose you met a retired gentleman who had been a radioman in the military 50+ years ago. He'd always wanted to be a ham but never had the time or resources. Now he finds that ham radio still exists, and he wants in. The gent can still do code well, and remembers the basics of theory as it was 50+ years ago. He gets an HF receiver and listens to the lovely Morse Code signals on the low ends of the HF bands. But in order to join the folks on 7010 or 3520, he needs an Extra. And the written test is full of stuff he's never seen before, and that he will never use. Why must he learn all that stuff he will never use just to pass the tests? Sure, the stuff is easy for *you*, but not for *him*. ... let's at least keep my comment about the drums straight... Let's see... Warmest regards, John "Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... "John Smith" wrote in message ... ... that almost makes me miss the ancient drums my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-etc. ancestors used to use to communicate with in the primordial jungles... I wonder if we could bring those back to? Invalid analogy. Drums for communication aren't in wide use. Morse Code for communication is in wide use in ham radio. Doesn't need to be brought back because it's right here. ... perhaps require the new licensees to beat out a fancy tempo on one of those turkeys before we gave 'em a license! evil-grin Warmest regards, John Perhaps, John But consider that some of us can send and receive cw faster than most folks can type. Yup. I know you may be good at "cut and paste", but that doesn't necessarily cut it LOL. Sure, voice appears faster, but when you get names and addresses that are hard to pronounce .... Bingo. For any message that needs to be written down, the speed limitation is usually the writing speed of the receiving op. The fact that someone can theoretically talks 150 wpm doesn't mean anything if the person on the receiving end can only write legibly at 15 wpm. Text modes are great if you have the hardware for them and if you are in a situation where you can look at a screen to read them. Not saying that CW is the best, but some folks better come up with something superior to AM and FM. There are a number of modes, but most folks want to "talk". That won't cut it for 85 watt moonbounce on 24 GHz. :) 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA ps - when I talk send and receive cw faster than some folks type, I'm not talking a nice, leisurely chat at 30 or 35 words per minute ... Yup. Good Morse ops can chat at speeds approaching those of voice ops because they use abbreviations and eliminate redundancies. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
.... absolutely not... I work with young men who take great pride in
their ability to pass difficult tests with ease... who are thankful for their gifted IQ's... .... but who see no reason to learn code... indeed, the courses which they take, and their level of education make any amateur exam look trivial... Warmest regards, John "K4YZ" wrote in message oups.com... John Smith wrote: It was never about anyone stopping you from sending cw was it... It is about stopping you from forcing others to learn cw when they would never use it... Always when one is being forced to do something they do not wish to, they should question everything in sight... just as you began when you thought someone was going to force you to quit... ... let's at least keep my comment about the drums straight... By the very nature of "testing" we are "forced" to do something we generally don't want to do. When I took my General, I had no intent on doing any RTTY operation yet had to know RTTY theory and practice. Good news is that now you don't HAVE to "learn" anything...Just memorize those quesitons and answers...Whish is what gives me a good laugh with the more arrogant NCT types (read that Lennie...) They are "OK" with open pools and memorized tests, but they hate memorized sounds...what's up with that? Sheesh...the FCC even delete the requirement to demonstrate SENDING the Code. There's no more work to memorizing the Code than there is to memorizing the written questions...Unless you have a VALID medical decicit. Steve, K4YZ |
.... the amateur tests are a trivial problem to men with real
educations... .... the cw part makes as much sense as learning to play a "jew's harp"--a lot of sense if you wish to, none if you don't... Warmest regards, John wrote in message oups.com... John Smith wrote: It was never about anyone stopping you from sending cw was it... A few anticode folks have stated they want Morse Code *use* by hams to end, not just the test. They are a small minority, but they do exist. It is about stopping you from forcing others to learn cw when they would never use it... Who is "forced" to learn Morse Code? It's a requirement if someone wants an FCC-issued amateur license with HF privileges, that's all. Always when one is being forced to do something they do not wish to, they should question everything in sight... just as you began when you thought someone was going to force you to quit... The argument you present boils down to this: If someone doesn't want to use Morse Code in ham radio, they shouldn't be required to learn it just to pass a test (even a simple, basic test) to get a ham radio license. Those who choose to use it can learn it on their own. Is that about right? The problem is that the same argument can be made against almost everything in the written tests. For example, if someone doesn't intend to use certain bands, why are they forced to learn the band edges of every band their license allows? If someone doesn't intend to use more than a few watts of transmitted power, why must they learn all that RF exposure stuff? Indeed, if someone doesn't intend to homebrew, why are they *forced* to learn all that theory stuff? Sure, the written tests look easy to someone with a background in radio, electronics, computers or other related fields. But to someone from an unrelated field, they're not easy. Suppose you met a retired gentleman who had been a radioman in the military 50+ years ago. He'd always wanted to be a ham but never had the time or resources. Now he finds that ham radio still exists, and he wants in. The gent can still do code well, and remembers the basics of theory as it was 50+ years ago. He gets an HF receiver and listens to the lovely Morse Code signals on the low ends of the HF bands. But in order to join the folks on 7010 or 3520, he needs an Extra. And the written test is full of stuff he's never seen before, and that he will never use. Why must he learn all that stuff he will never use just to pass the tests? Sure, the stuff is easy for *you*, but not for *him*. ... let's at least keep my comment about the drums straight... Let's see... Warmest regards, John "Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... "John Smith" wrote in message ... ... that almost makes me miss the ancient drums my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-etc. ancestors used to use to communicate with in the primordial jungles... I wonder if we could bring those back to? Invalid analogy. Drums for communication aren't in wide use. Morse Code for communication is in wide use in ham radio. Doesn't need to be brought back because it's right here. ... perhaps require the new licensees to beat out a fancy tempo on one of those turkeys before we gave 'em a license! evil-grin Warmest regards, John Perhaps, John But consider that some of us can send and receive cw faster than most folks can type. Yup. I know you may be good at "cut and paste", but that doesn't necessarily cut it LOL. Sure, voice appears faster, but when you get names and addresses that are hard to pronounce .... Bingo. For any message that needs to be written down, the speed limitation is usually the writing speed of the receiving op. The fact that someone can theoretically talks 150 wpm doesn't mean anything if the person on the receiving end can only write legibly at 15 wpm. Text modes are great if you have the hardware for them and if you are in a situation where you can look at a screen to read them. Not saying that CW is the best, but some folks better come up with something superior to AM and FM. There are a number of modes, but most folks want to "talk". That won't cut it for 85 watt moonbounce on 24 GHz. :) 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA ps - when I talk send and receive cw faster than some folks type, I'm not talking a nice, leisurely chat at 30 or 35 words per minute ... Yup. Good Morse ops can chat at speeds approaching those of voice ops because they use abbreviations and eliminate redundancies. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"robert casey" wrote in message nk.net... John Smith wrote: ... that almost makes me miss the ancient drums my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-etc. ancestors used to use to communicate with in the primordial jungles... I wonder if we could bring those back to? ... perhaps require the new licensees to beat out a fancy tempo on one of those turkeys before we gave 'em a license! evil-grin Imagine the drum DX contests those people in the jungle used to have. :-) Though everyone had only one air "channel" to share. Must have been some bad QRM at times.... Similar to "spark" and coher detectors, eh? Dan/W4NTI |
John Smith wrote:
... the amateur tests are a trivial problem to men with real educations... What about women with real educations? Would you consider someone with a BSEE from the University of Pennsylvania and an MSEE from Drexel University to have "a real education"? ... the cw part Is an amateur test. And is a trivial problem to people with real educations.. makes as much sense as learning to play a "jew's harp"--a lot of sense if you wish to, none if you don't... Then why require someone with no interest in VHF-UHF to learn those techniques in order to operate on HF? Why require knowedge of FSK, PSK and other data modes to operate voice? Why require knowledge of transistors and ICs to operate vacuum-tube equipment? IOW, why require anyone to learn anything about a subject they are not interested in, just to get a license to do the things they *are* interested in? -- Perhaps what bothers some people the most about the code test is that it isn't something most people already know. And it isn't something that can be learned by reading a book, watching a video, etc. It's a skill, not "book learning". In learning the code, a Ph.D in EE has to start at the same place as a grade-schooler. And the grade schooler may learn faster and do better! Perhaps it is this characteristic of the test - its ability to act as a Great Equalizer - that causes some to resent it so much. -- Warmest regards, John wrote in message oups.com... John Smith wrote: It was never about anyone stopping you from sending cw was it... A few anticode folks have stated they want Morse Code *use* by hams to end, not just the test. They are a small minority, but they do exist. It is about stopping you from forcing others to learn cw when they would never use it... Who is "forced" to learn Morse Code? It's a requirement if someone wants an FCC-issued amateur license with HF privileges, that's all. Always when one is being forced to do something they do not wish to, they should question everything in sight... just as you began when you thought someone was going to force you to quit... The argument you present boils down to this: If someone doesn't want to use Morse Code in ham radio, they shouldn't be required to learn it just to pass a test (even a simple, basic test) to get a ham radio license. Those who choose to use it can learn it on their own. Is that about right? The problem is that the same argument can be made against almost everything in the written tests. For example, if someone doesn't intend to use certain bands, why are they forced to learn the band edges of every band their license allows? If someone doesn't intend to use more than a few watts of transmitted power, why must they learn all that RF exposure stuff? Indeed, if someone doesn't intend to homebrew, why are they *forced* to learn all that theory stuff? Sure, the written tests look easy to someone with a background in radio, electronics, computers or other related fields. But to someone from an unrelated field, they're not easy. Suppose you met a retired gentleman who had been a radioman in the military 50+ years ago. He'd always wanted to be a ham but never had the time or resources. Now he finds that ham radio still exists, and he wants in. The gent can still do code well, and remembers the basics of theory as it was 50+ years ago. He gets an HF receiver and listens to the lovely Morse Code signals on the low ends of the HF bands. But in order to join the folks on 7010 or 3520, he needs an Extra. And the written test is full of stuff he's never seen before, and that he will never use. Why must he learn all that stuff he will never use just to pass the tests? Sure, the stuff is easy for *you*, but not for *him*. ... let's at least keep my comment about the drums straight... Let's see... Warmest regards, John "Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... "John Smith" wrote in message ... ... that almost makes me miss the ancient drums my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-etc. ancestors used to use to communicate with in the primordial jungles... I wonder if we could bring those back to? Invalid analogy. Drums for communication aren't in wide use. Morse Code for communication is in wide use in ham radio. Doesn't need to be brought back because it's right here. ... perhaps require the new licensees to beat out a fancy tempo on one of those turkeys before we gave 'em a license! evil-grin Warmest regards, John Perhaps, John But consider that some of us can send and receive cw faster than most folks can type. Yup. I know you may be good at "cut and paste", but that doesn't necessarily cut it LOL. Sure, voice appears faster, but when you get names and addresses that are hard to pronounce .... Bingo. For any message that needs to be written down, the speed limitation is usually the writing speed of the receiving op. The fact that someone can theoretically talks 150 wpm doesn't mean anything if the person on the receiving end can only write legibly at 15 wpm. Text modes are great if you have the hardware for them and if you are in a situation where you can look at a screen to read them. Not saying that CW is the best, but some folks better come up with something superior to AM and FM. There are a number of modes, but most folks want to "talk". That won't cut it for 85 watt moonbounce on 24 GHz. :) 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA ps - when I talk send and receive cw faster than some folks type, I'm not talking a nice, leisurely chat at 30 or 35 words per minute ... Yup. Good Morse ops can chat at speeds approaching those of voice ops because they use abbreviations and eliminate redundancies. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
.... all the women I have ever tried to interest in radio... all have
declined doing anything towards getting a license... once they even see a key and a code practice oscillator they look at me as if I am crazy and ask, "You are kidding, right?" Then they grab their net-to-phone and/or keyboard and being chatting with canadians, so americans, mexicans, asians, aussies, brits, etc... .... and at this point it is hard for me to pose a logical argument--women are just smarter than men... you can't fool them... John wrote in message oups.com... John Smith wrote: ... the amateur tests are a trivial problem to men with real educations... What about women with real educations? Would you consider someone with a BSEE from the University of Pennsylvania and an MSEE from Drexel University to have "a real education"? ... the cw part Is an amateur test. And is a trivial problem to people with real educations.. makes as much sense as learning to play a "jew's harp"--a lot of sense if you wish to, none if you don't... Then why require someone with no interest in VHF-UHF to learn those techniques in order to operate on HF? Why require knowedge of FSK, PSK and other data modes to operate voice? Why require knowledge of transistors and ICs to operate vacuum-tube equipment? IOW, why require anyone to learn anything about a subject they are not interested in, just to get a license to do the things they *are* interested in? -- Perhaps what bothers some people the most about the code test is that it isn't something most people already know. And it isn't something that can be learned by reading a book, watching a video, etc. It's a skill, not "book learning". In learning the code, a Ph.D in EE has to start at the same place as a grade-schooler. And the grade schooler may learn faster and do better! Perhaps it is this characteristic of the test - its ability to act as a Great Equalizer - that causes some to resent it so much. -- Warmest regards, John wrote in message oups.com... John Smith wrote: It was never about anyone stopping you from sending cw was it... A few anticode folks have stated they want Morse Code *use* by hams to end, not just the test. They are a small minority, but they do exist. It is about stopping you from forcing others to learn cw when they would never use it... Who is "forced" to learn Morse Code? It's a requirement if someone wants an FCC-issued amateur license with HF privileges, that's all. Always when one is being forced to do something they do not wish to, they should question everything in sight... just as you began when you thought someone was going to force you to quit... The argument you present boils down to this: If someone doesn't want to use Morse Code in ham radio, they shouldn't be required to learn it just to pass a test (even a simple, basic test) to get a ham radio license. Those who choose to use it can learn it on their own. Is that about right? The problem is that the same argument can be made against almost everything in the written tests. For example, if someone doesn't intend to use certain bands, why are they forced to learn the band edges of every band their license allows? If someone doesn't intend to use more than a few watts of transmitted power, why must they learn all that RF exposure stuff? Indeed, if someone doesn't intend to homebrew, why are they *forced* to learn all that theory stuff? Sure, the written tests look easy to someone with a background in radio, electronics, computers or other related fields. But to someone from an unrelated field, they're not easy. Suppose you met a retired gentleman who had been a radioman in the military 50+ years ago. He'd always wanted to be a ham but never had the time or resources. Now he finds that ham radio still exists, and he wants in. The gent can still do code well, and remembers the basics of theory as it was 50+ years ago. He gets an HF receiver and listens to the lovely Morse Code signals on the low ends of the HF bands. But in order to join the folks on 7010 or 3520, he needs an Extra. And the written test is full of stuff he's never seen before, and that he will never use. Why must he learn all that stuff he will never use just to pass the tests? Sure, the stuff is easy for *you*, but not for *him*. ... let's at least keep my comment about the drums straight... Let's see... Warmest regards, John "Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... "John Smith" wrote in message ... ... that almost makes me miss the ancient drums my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-etc. ancestors used to use to communicate with in the primordial jungles... I wonder if we could bring those back to? Invalid analogy. Drums for communication aren't in wide use. Morse Code for communication is in wide use in ham radio. Doesn't need to be brought back because it's right here. ... perhaps require the new licensees to beat out a fancy tempo on one of those turkeys before we gave 'em a license! evil-grin Warmest regards, John Perhaps, John But consider that some of us can send and receive cw faster than most folks can type. Yup. I know you may be good at "cut and paste", but that doesn't necessarily cut it LOL. Sure, voice appears faster, but when you get names and addresses that are hard to pronounce .... Bingo. For any message that needs to be written down, the speed limitation is usually the writing speed of the receiving op. The fact that someone can theoretically talks 150 wpm doesn't mean anything if the person on the receiving end can only write legibly at 15 wpm. Text modes are great if you have the hardware for them and if you are in a situation where you can look at a screen to read them. Not saying that CW is the best, but some folks better come up with something superior to AM and FM. There are a number of modes, but most folks want to "talk". That won't cut it for 85 watt moonbounce on 24 GHz. :) 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA ps - when I talk send and receive cw faster than some folks type, I'm not talking a nice, leisurely chat at 30 or 35 words per minute ... Yup. Good Morse ops can chat at speeds approaching those of voice ops because they use abbreviations and eliminate redundancies. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
|
wrote in message
oups.com... Perhaps what bothers some people the most about the code test is that it isn't something most people already know. And it isn't something that can be learned by reading a book, watching a video, etc. It's a skill, not "book learning". In learning the code, a Ph.D in EE has to start at the same place as a grade-schooler. And the grade schooler may learn faster and do better! Perhaps it is this characteristic of the test - its ability to act as a Great Equalizer - that causes some to resent it so much. It was never really about the actual test, but rather the effort required to successfully prepare for the test. -- Vy 73 de Bert WA2SI FISTS #9384/CC #1736 QRP ARCI #11782 Snagged a TA2 and a 4X5 last night... IOW, the effort was well worth it. |
John Smith wrote:
It was never about anyone stopping you from sending cw was it... It is about stopping you from forcing others to learn cw when they would never use it... So I guess you should never have to answer questions on the test about RTTY, Packet, Amtor, SSTV, ect., ect., if you think you will never use those modes. Or you shouldn't have to answer questions on theory such as ohms law, if you never plan to build anything. So how do you know that you will never want to operate those modes? Do you want to take another test if you someday decide to operate another mode? Should we have hams building and putting equipment on the air who don't even know ohms law? The fact is, all that is available to any licensed ham by virtue of their license, so they should have some knowledge in these areas should they ever want to persue them. Always when one is being forced to do something they do not wish to, they should question everything in sight... just as you began when you thought someone was going to force you to quit... No one is forceing you to do any of them, if fact, no one forced you to get a license. |
From: John Smith on Jun 14, 9:30 pm
Len: Did I miss something here, if you know morse it gives you the ability to speak and read french? Any "good" morseman KNOWS EVERYTHING! :-) That's the ONLY skill they need...and some have said so. :-) Hell, I know morse and still can't speak to the french, unless they morse in english!!! Same with the Germans, Dutch, Spanish, etc.... Way back two centuries ago, Sam (Morse) and Al (Vail) revised Morse's original code (all numbers) into something representing ENGLISH letters, numbers, and some punctuation marks. That was roughly in the 1840s. After radio was demonstrated in 1896 (in Italy and Russia) as a communications medium, the good (and always CORRECT) morsemen claimed it was an "international language." :-) "CW gets through when anything else will..." - B. Burke |
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On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:20:13 -0700, John Smith wrote:
.... absolutely not... I work with young men who take great pride in their ability to pass difficult tests with ease... who are thankful for their gifted IQ's... .... but who see no reason to learn code... indeed, the courses which they take, and their level of education make any amateur exam look trivial... Do they think that their sweat doesn't stink???? Wait 'till they hit the course or assignment that throws them back into the mortal realm. We've all hit that point at one time or another.... -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane |
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:21:00 -0700, John Smith wrote:
... all the women I have ever tried to interest in radio... all have declined doing anything towards getting a license... once they even see a key and a code practice oscillator they look at me as if I am crazy and ask, "You are kidding, right?" Tell that to our friend Claire who is the NCS of the Beaver State (CW) Traffic Net - high-speed CW. And she's no dummy - retired PhD in a specialized field of the biological sciences. So much for generalizations. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane |
.... the young person of today has a much great education than his/her
counterpart of even twenty years ago... John "Phil Kane" wrote in message ganews.com... On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:20:13 -0700, John Smith wrote: .... absolutely not... I work with young men who take great pride in their ability to pass difficult tests with ease... who are thankful for their gifted IQ's... .... but who see no reason to learn code... indeed, the courses which they take, and their level of education make any amateur exam look trivial... Do they think that their sweat doesn't stink???? Wait 'till they hit the course or assignment that throws them back into the mortal realm. We've all hit that point at one time or another.... -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane |
well my gawd, we already have one then--we sure as hell don't need
another! ROFLOL .... they are rarer then hens teeth... John "Phil Kane" wrote in message ganews.com... On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:21:00 -0700, John Smith wrote: ... all the women I have ever tried to interest in radio... all have declined doing anything towards getting a license... once they even see a key and a code practice oscillator they look at me as if I am crazy and ask, "You are kidding, right?" Tell that to our friend Claire who is the NCS of the Beaver State (CW) Traffic Net - high-speed CW. And she's no dummy - retired PhD in a specialized field of the biological sciences. So much for generalizations. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane |
.... trust me, those cw'ers are going to grow very lonely--these new guys
have no use for code... they can scream and rant and rave and argue a ridiculous point--just tune up grab your key and start finding out how many out there are under 50... it ain't many! John wrote in message oups.com... From: on Tues 14 Jun 2005 09:32 John Smith wrote: It was never about anyone stopping you from sending cw was it... Good Morse ops can chat at speeds approaching those of voice ops because they use abbreviations and eliminate redundancies. Oh, my, THAT old brag. Tsk, tsk, , listen in on any large FAA-tower airport and, especially, the voice communications out of an FAA Center. No morse used there, but plenty of abbreviations with elimination of redundancies. Word rates are above 150 WPM equivalent and often approach 250 WPM equivalent. No "test" required to learn the abbreviations in TRACON talk. Tsk, if morse code was so "efficient" and "speedy," it would have been prime use in the REST OF THE RADIO WORLD. It isn't. Other than the ham hobbyists ("on the lower ends of the 'bands' HF") and some long-established automatic ID keyers, the REST OF THE RADIO WORLD has given up on morse code. To attempt countering the above, you MUST trot out the hoary old maxim that "this is amateur radio!" as if the hobby is somehow exulted and revered BECAUSE of morse code testing...and you will state that "because there are still morse users in amateur radio," "newcomers 'must' learn/test for that skill to talk to them." :-) [such always seems to happen as a "reason" for being...:-) ] That "reply" (yet to come but as certain as there is a tomorrow) might be augmented by some kind of "need" to "be able to talk to those in foreign lands who do not speak English." One of the truly specious and bereft of logic statements ever made in here! Go ahead and "chat" on anything via morse code...use its unique ability to express subtleties of opinion, the timbre and tone of the sound, and all the other body language clues available through morse. :-) Other than IDs, location, "the rig here is" and WX, there isn't much more to the "chat," is there? Please continue to praise the military morse ops, , especially those of the USN. The USN is NOT a branch of the military you were in. Indeed, you weren't in ANY branch of the military. You "served in other ways." |
John Smith wrote: "K4YZ" wrote in message oups.com... John Smith wrote: It was never about anyone stopping you from sending cw was it... It is about stopping you from forcing others to learn cw when they would never use it... Always when one is being forced to do something they do not wish to, they should question everything in sight... just as you began when you thought someone was going to force you to quit... ... let's at least keep my comment about the drums straight... By the very nature of "testing" we are "forced" to do something we generally don't want to do. When I took my General, I had no intent on doing any RTTY operation yet had to know RTTY theory and practice. Good news is that now you don't HAVE to "learn" anything...Just memorize those quesitons and answers...Whish is what gives me a good laugh with the more arrogant NCT types (read that Lennie...) They are "OK" with open pools and memorized tests, but they hate memorized sounds...what's up with that? Sheesh...the FCC even delete the requirement to demonstrate SENDING the Code. There's no more work to memorizing the Code than there is to memorizing the written questions...Unless you have a VALID medical decicit. ... absolutely not... I work with young men who take great pride in their ability to pass difficult tests with ease... who are thankful for their gifted IQ's... ... but who see no reason to learn code... I do too... They're called "lazy". indeed, the courses which they take, and their level of education make any amateur exam look trivial... "They" may, but since we have no milestones against which to know those levels, we'll never know for sure. In short: "I trust men wearing ski masks." Steve, K4YZ |
.... yep, too lazy to learn to send messages by primordial tribal drum
too ... .... too lazy to learn how to play a jew's harp too ... .... too lazy to take up knitting and crocheting too ... .... yep, damn lazy bunch they are! ... ROFLOL!!!! John "K4YZ" wrote in message oups.com... John Smith wrote: "K4YZ" wrote in message oups.com... John Smith wrote: It was never about anyone stopping you from sending cw was it... It is about stopping you from forcing others to learn cw when they would never use it... Always when one is being forced to do something they do not wish to, they should question everything in sight... just as you began when you thought someone was going to force you to quit... ... let's at least keep my comment about the drums straight... By the very nature of "testing" we are "forced" to do something we generally don't want to do. When I took my General, I had no intent on doing any RTTY operation yet had to know RTTY theory and practice. Good news is that now you don't HAVE to "learn" anything...Just memorize those quesitons and answers...Whish is what gives me a good laugh with the more arrogant NCT types (read that Lennie...) They are "OK" with open pools and memorized tests, but they hate memorized sounds...what's up with that? Sheesh...the FCC even delete the requirement to demonstrate SENDING the Code. There's no more work to memorizing the Code than there is to memorizing the written questions...Unless you have a VALID medical decicit. ... absolutely not... I work with young men who take great pride in their ability to pass difficult tests with ease... who are thankful for their gifted IQ's... ... but who see no reason to learn code... I do too... They're called "lazy". indeed, the courses which they take, and their level of education make any amateur exam look trivial... "They" may, but since we have no milestones against which to know those levels, we'll never know for sure. In short: "I trust men wearing ski masks." Steve, K4YZ |
John Smith wrote:
... all the women I have ever tried to interest in radio... all have declined doing anything towards getting a license... once they even see a key and a code practice oscillator they look at me as if I am crazy and ask, "You are kidding, right?" With all due respect, perhaps your skill at getting them interested needs some improvement.... Given your attitude towards Morse Code, you'd be as effective as the chairman of the National Beef Council trying to get people to be vegetarians.. Then they grab their net-to-phone and/or keyboard and being chatting with canadians, so americans, mexicans, asians, aussies, brits, etc... Which takes no radio and no license. So it's not about Morse Code, but about different interests. ... and at this point it is hard for me to pose a logical argument-- ;-) women are just smarter than men... you can't fool them... Not about fooling, but about what people are interested in. wrote in message oups.com... John Smith wrote: ... the amateur tests are a trivial problem to men with real educations... What about women with real educations? Would you consider someone with a BSEE from the University of Pennsylvania and an MSEE from Drexel University to have "a real education"? ... the cw part Is an amateur test. And is a trivial problem to people with real educations.. makes as much sense as learning to play a "jew's harp"--a lot of sense if you wish to, none if you don't... Then why require someone with no interest in VHF-UHF to learn those techniques in order to operate on HF? Why require knowedge of FSK, PSK and other data modes to operate voice? Why require knowledge of transistors and ICs to operate vacuum-tube equipment? IOW, why require anyone to learn anything about a subject they are not interested in, just to get a license to do the things they *are* interested in? -- Perhaps what bothers some people the most about the code test is that it isn't something most people already know. And it isn't something that can be learned by reading a book, watching a video, etc. It's a skill, not "book learning". In learning the code, a Ph.D in EE has to start at the same place as a grade-schooler. And the grade schooler may learn faster and do better! Perhaps it is this characteristic of the test - its ability to act as a Great Equalizer - that causes some to resent it so much. -- Warmest regards, John wrote in message oups.com... John Smith wrote: It was never about anyone stopping you from sending cw was it... A few anticode folks have stated they want Morse Code *use* by hams to end, not just the test. They are a small minority, but they do exist. It is about stopping you from forcing others to learn cw when they would never use it... Who is "forced" to learn Morse Code? It's a requirement if someone wants an FCC-issued amateur license with HF privileges, that's all. Always when one is being forced to do something they do not wish to, they should question everything in sight... just as you began when you thought someone was going to force you to quit... The argument you present boils down to this: If someone doesn't want to use Morse Code in ham radio, they shouldn't be required to learn it just to pass a test (even a simple, basic test) to get a ham radio license. Those who choose to use it can learn it on their own. Is that about right? The problem is that the same argument can be made against almost everything in the written tests. For example, if someone doesn't intend to use certain bands, why are they forced to learn the band edges of every band their license allows? If someone doesn't intend to use more than a few watts of transmitted power, why must they learn all that RF exposure stuff? Indeed, if someone doesn't intend to homebrew, why are they *forced* to learn all that theory stuff? Sure, the written tests look easy to someone with a background in radio, electronics, computers or other related fields. But to someone from an unrelated field, they're not easy. Suppose you met a retired gentleman who had been a radioman in the military 50+ years ago. He'd always wanted to be a ham but never had the time or resources. Now he finds that ham radio still exists, and he wants in. The gent can still do code well, and remembers the basics of theory as it was 50+ years ago. He gets an HF receiver and listens to the lovely Morse Code signals on the low ends of the HF bands. But in order to join the folks on 7010 or 3520, he needs an Extra. And the written test is full of stuff he's never seen before, and that he will never use. Why must he learn all that stuff he will never use just to pass the tests? Sure, the stuff is easy for *you*, but not for *him*. ... let's at least keep my comment about the drums straight... Let's see... Warmest regards, John "Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... "John Smith" wrote in message ... ... that almost makes me miss the ancient drums my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-etc. ancestors used to use to communicate with in the primordial jungles... I wonder if we could bring those back to? Invalid analogy. Drums for communication aren't in wide use. Morse Code for communication is in wide use in ham radio. Doesn't need to be brought back because it's right here. ... perhaps require the new licensees to beat out a fancy tempo on one of those turkeys before we gave 'em a license! evil-grin Warmest regards, John Perhaps, John But consider that some of us can send and receive cw faster than most folks can type. Yup. I know you may be good at "cut and paste", but that doesn't necessarily cut it LOL. Sure, voice appears faster, but when you get names and addresses that are hard to pronounce .... Bingo. For any message that needs to be written down, the speed limitation is usually the writing speed of the receiving op. The fact that someone can theoretically talks 150 wpm doesn't mean anything if the person on the receiving end can only write legibly at 15 wpm. Text modes are great if you have the hardware for them and if you are in a situation where you can look at a screen to read them. Not saying that CW is the best, but some folks better come up with something superior to AM and FM. There are a number of modes, but most folks want to "talk". That won't cut it for 85 watt moonbounce on 24 GHz. :) 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA ps - when I talk send and receive cw faster than some folks type, I'm not talking a nice, leisurely chat at 30 or 35 words per minute ... Yup. Good Morse ops can chat at speeds approaching those of voice ops because they use abbreviations and eliminate redundancies. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Phil Kane wrote: On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:21:00 -0700, John Smith wrote: ... all the women I have ever tried to interest in radio... all have declined doing anything towards getting a license... once they even see a key and a code practice oscillator they look at me as if I am crazy and ask, "You are kidding, right?" Tell that to our friend Claire who is the NCS of the Beaver State (CW) Traffic Net - high-speed CW. And she's no dummy - retired PhD in a specialized field of the biological sciences. .. . . then there was the legendary traffic handler Mae Burke W3CUL who was a neighborhood housewife . . So much for generalizations. Gotta love it. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane w3rv |
John,
You could make the same assertion about a driver's license. Memorize some rules and take a road test. Do you support eliminating motor vehicle tests? Perhaps only for college educated folks? Might it make sense to require folks to know where the band edges are, or would you think it doesn't matter. If you travel to the U.K., do you think it might be smart to understand that they drive on the *left* side of the road rather than the right? Even if you are a pedestrian? I suspect you'd be upset if someone started transmitting on your Direct Tv frequencies and killed your reception. There are rules and folks wishing licenses are supposed to demonstrate some knowledge of those rules. These rules do not require the calculus, yet even a college grad has to demonstrate some knowledge of them. 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA "John Smith" wrote in message ... ... the amateur tests are a trivial problem to men with real educations... ... the cw part makes as much sense as learning to play a "jew's harp"--a lot of sense if you wish to, none if you don't... Warmest regards, John |
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