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#1
June 15th 05, 10:26 PM
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John Smith wrote:
I just support removing code because no new hams are using it in any meaningful numbers. I've seen plenty of new hams use Morse Code on the air. And plenty who use other modes. What information do you have to show that "no new hams are using it in any meaningful numbers." The new state of the art hams are interested in hooking a modem up and interfacing the radio to the computer... Some are - some aren't. Hook up a code key and they loose interest immediately... Depends on how you present it. And the word is "lose".... Now, a bunch of old guys who are computer illiterate have no choice than to try to amuse themselves with a damn key... Well, that leaves me out, because I'm neither old nor computer illiterate. "Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... John, You could make the same assertion about a driver's license. Memorize some rules and take a road test. Do you support eliminating motor vehicle tests? Perhaps only for college educated folks? Might it make sense to require folks to know where the band edges are, or would you think it doesn't matter. If you travel to the U.K., do you think it might be smart to understand that they drive on the *left* side of the road rather than the right? Even if you are a pedestrian? I suspect you'd be upset if someone started transmitting on your Direct Tv frequencies and killed your reception. There are rules and folks wishing licenses are supposed to demonstrate some knowledge of those rules. These rules do not require the calculus, yet even a college grad has to demonstrate some knowledge of them. 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA "John Smith" wrote in message ... ... the amateur tests are a trivial problem to men with real educations... ... the cw part makes as much sense as learning to play a "jew's harp"--a lot of sense if you wish to, none if you don't... Warmest regards, John |
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#2
June 15th 05, 11:57 PM
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wrote in message ups.com... John Smith wrote: I just support removing code because no new hams are using it in any meaningful numbers. I've seen plenty of new hams use Morse Code on the air. And plenty who use other modes. What information do you have to show that "no new hams are using it in any meaningful numbers." The new state of the art hams are interested in hooking a modem up and interfacing the radio to the computer... Some are - some aren't. Hook up a code key and they loose interest immediately... Depends on how you present it. And the word is "lose".... Now, a bunch of old guys who are computer illiterate have no choice than to try to amuse themselves with a damn key... Well, that leaves me out, because I'm neither old nor computer illiterate. He does not realize that it was this "bunch of old guys who are computer illiterate" who developed several of the digital modes and were some of the earliest amateurs to interface computers and radios. At work it is not the "bunch of old guys who are computer illiterate" who cannot find their way around a computer but instead the new kids fresh out of school. It's the kids who cannot seem to figure out how to use the advanced features of the spreadsheets, wordprocessors, etc until someone leads them by the hand through it. The "bunch of old guys who are computer illiterate" are the ones who explore the software and become proficient in its many features. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
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#3
June 16th 05, 12:05 AM
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Dee:
Certainly everyone over 50 needs to step back and let the younger men have a go--we are stagnated right now--I won't argue that point--it is MUCH too obvious... What "modes" are you using? I am using a 56k modem my son modified to modulate a transmitter... any other person able to interface an old 56k modem to their computer can get the data... now a nice 10mbs per second mode would be nice, where is some cheap equipment? John "Dee Flint" wrote in message ... wrote in message ups.com... John Smith wrote: I just support removing code because no new hams are using it in any meaningful numbers. I've seen plenty of new hams use Morse Code on the air. And plenty who use other modes. What information do you have to show that "no new hams are using it in any meaningful numbers." The new state of the art hams are interested in hooking a modem up and interfacing the radio to the computer... Some are - some aren't. Hook up a code key and they loose interest immediately... Depends on how you present it. And the word is "lose".... Now, a bunch of old guys who are computer illiterate have no choice than to try to amuse themselves with a damn key... Well, that leaves me out, because I'm neither old nor computer illiterate. He does not realize that it was this "bunch of old guys who are computer illiterate" who developed several of the digital modes and were some of the earliest amateurs to interface computers and radios. At work it is not the "bunch of old guys who are computer illiterate" who cannot find their way around a computer but instead the new kids fresh out of school. It's the kids who cannot seem to figure out how to use the advanced features of the spreadsheets, wordprocessors, etc until someone leads them by the hand through it. The "bunch of old guys who are computer illiterate" are the ones who explore the software and become proficient in its many features. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
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#4
June 16th 05, 12:40 AM
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"John Smith" wrote in message ... Dee: Certainly everyone over 50 needs to step back and let the younger men have a go--we are stagnated right now--I won't argue that point--it is MUCH too obvious... What is obvious is that the younger people are inexperienced. You fail to realize that we need people of ALL ages involved and each contributes to the benefit of amateur radio (or any other activity for that matter). And since there is no limit on the number of hams, there is nothing stopping the younger men from getting in and developing what they wish within the technical limitations of the medium (i.e. HF cannot support ultrawide modes without causing detrimental effects on the number of people who can use the bands simultaneously). What "modes" are you using? I am using a 56k modem my son modified to modulate a transmitter... any other person able to interface an old 56k modem to their computer can get the data... now a nice 10mbs per second mode would be nice, where is some cheap equipment? You do realize that a 56k modem is no use on HF. There isn't enough bandwidth and the FCC rightly limits the speed of the digital modes. As to what I've worked, I used to do RTTY, Amtor, packet, and some others. All were deadly boring. I've put the equipment away to free up desk space. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
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#5
June 16th 05, 01:07 AM
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Dee:
Wide band FM is much more than enough band width--it can be done with some success on narrow band... .... even the ancient terminology "mode" is disgusting to a real engineer--hams need to get with it and realize these are "protocols"... ham radio is beginning to look like a bunch of would be "Egyptian priests" attempting control though ignorance generated by specialized terminology... John "Dee Flint" wrote in message ... "John Smith" wrote in message ... Dee: Certainly everyone over 50 needs to step back and let the younger men have a go--we are stagnated right now--I won't argue that point--it is MUCH too obvious... What is obvious is that the younger people are inexperienced. You fail to realize that we need people of ALL ages involved and each contributes to the benefit of amateur radio (or any other activity for that matter). And since there is no limit on the number of hams, there is nothing stopping the younger men from getting in and developing what they wish within the technical limitations of the medium (i.e. HF cannot support ultrawide modes without causing detrimental effects on the number of people who can use the bands simultaneously). What "modes" are you using? I am using a 56k modem my son modified to modulate a transmitter... any other person able to interface an old 56k modem to their computer can get the data... now a nice 10mbs per second mode would be nice, where is some cheap equipment? You do realize that a 56k modem is no use on HF. There isn't enough bandwidth and the FCC rightly limits the speed of the digital modes. As to what I've worked, I used to do RTTY, Amtor, packet, and some others. All were deadly boring. I've put the equipment away to free up desk space. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
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#6
June 15th 05, 11:17 PM
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N2EY:
You should be ashamed of yourself--you damn well know young cw'ers are rarer than female breasts on a boar! Most are no-code licenses! John wrote in message ups.com... John Smith wrote: I just support removing code because no new hams are using it in any meaningful numbers. I've seen plenty of new hams use Morse Code on the air. And plenty who use other modes. What information do you have to show that "no new hams are using it in any meaningful numbers." The new state of the art hams are interested in hooking a modem up and interfacing the radio to the computer... Some are - some aren't. Hook up a code key and they loose interest immediately... Depends on how you present it. And the word is "lose".... Now, a bunch of old guys who are computer illiterate have no choice than to try to amuse themselves with a damn key... Well, that leaves me out, because I'm neither old nor computer illiterate. "Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... John, You could make the same assertion about a driver's license. Memorize some rules and take a road test. Do you support eliminating motor vehicle tests? Perhaps only for college educated folks? Might it make sense to require folks to know where the band edges are, or would you think it doesn't matter. If you travel to the U.K., do you think it might be smart to understand that they drive on the *left* side of the road rather than the right? Even if you are a pedestrian? I suspect you'd be upset if someone started transmitting on your Direct Tv frequencies and killed your reception. There are rules and folks wishing licenses are supposed to demonstrate some knowledge of those rules. These rules do not require the calculus, yet even a college grad has to demonstrate some knowledge of them. 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA "John Smith" wrote in message ... ... the amateur tests are a trivial problem to men with real educations... ... the cw part makes as much sense as learning to play a "jew's harp"--a lot of sense if you wish to, none if you don't... Warmest regards, John |
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#7
June 16th 05, 11:30 AM
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John Smith wrote:
N2EY: You should be ashamed of yourself- Why? -you damn well know young cw'ers are rarer than... How would you know, John? You've told us you don't use Morse Code. So how would you know how many young hams there are using the mode? You've made fun of the mode and those who use it. A young ham who uses and likes Morse Code would probably just avoid you, rather than get involved in a confrontation with you. Most are no-code licenses! How do you know? Here's a clue: - Age information in the FCC database is incomplete. The birthdate of some but not all licensees are in there. The times when age information was collected are such that the ages of young hams may be underrepresented in the database. - Not all Technicians are "nocodetest". The FCC has been renewing all Technician and Technician Plus licenses as Technician for more than 5 years, and in less than 5 more years there will be no more Technician Pluses at all, because they will all have either expired or been renewed as Technicians. In that same time period, Novices who pass Element 2 get Technician licenses, not Technician Pluses. And any Technician who passes Element 1 is still shown as Technician on the database. - You haven't defined "young" - does it mean hams under age 20? 30? 40? Does it mean hams licensed less than a year? 5 years? 10 years? Perhaps you have simply concluded that the code test is the boogeyman responsible for all problems in the amateur radio service, and that when it's gone, all will be well. - wrote in message ups.com... John Smith wrote: I just support removing code because no new hams are using it in any meaningful numbers. I've seen plenty of new hams use Morse Code on the air. And plenty who use other modes. What information do you have to show that "no new hams are using it in any meaningful numbers." The new state of the art hams are interested in hooking a modem up and interfacing the radio to the computer... Some are - some aren't. Hook up a code key and they loose interest immediately... Depends on how you present it. And the word is "lose".... Now, a bunch of old guys who are computer illiterate have no choice than to try to amuse themselves with a damn key... Well, that leaves me out, because I'm neither old nor computer illiterate. "Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... John, You could make the same assertion about a driver's license. Memorize some rules and take a road test. Do you support eliminating motor vehicle tests? Perhaps only for college educated folks? Might it make sense to require folks to know where the band edges are, or would you think it doesn't matter. If you travel to the U.K., do you think it might be smart to understand that they drive on the *left* side of the road rather than the right? Even if you are a pedestrian? I suspect you'd be upset if someone started transmitting on your Direct Tv frequencies and killed your reception. There are rules and folks wishing licenses are supposed to demonstrate some knowledge of those rules. These rules do not require the calculus, yet even a college grad has to demonstrate some knowledge of them. 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA "John Smith" wrote in message ... ... the amateur tests are a trivial problem to men with real educations... ... the cw part makes as much sense as learning to play a "jew's harp"--a lot of sense if you wish to, none if you don't... Warmest regards, John |
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#8
June 16th 05, 05:24 PM
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N2EY:
Oh forget I mentioned anything--lets just chat with the younger guys under 35--they are more interesting anyway... Hey, when are they going to get here? John wrote in message oups.com... John Smith wrote: N2EY: You should be ashamed of yourself- Why? -you damn well know young cw'ers are rarer than... How would you know, John? You've told us you don't use Morse Code. So how would you know how many young hams there are using the mode? You've made fun of the mode and those who use it. A young ham who uses and likes Morse Code would probably just avoid you, rather than get involved in a confrontation with you. Most are no-code licenses! How do you know? Here's a clue: - Age information in the FCC database is incomplete. The birthdate of some but not all licensees are in there. The times when age information was collected are such that the ages of young hams may be underrepresented in the database. - Not all Technicians are "nocodetest". The FCC has been renewing all Technician and Technician Plus licenses as Technician for more than 5 years, and in less than 5 more years there will be no more Technician Pluses at all, because they will all have either expired or been renewed as Technicians. In that same time period, Novices who pass Element 2 get Technician licenses, not Technician Pluses. And any Technician who passes Element 1 is still shown as Technician on the database. - You haven't defined "young" - does it mean hams under age 20? 30? 40? Does it mean hams licensed less than a year? 5 years? 10 years? Perhaps you have simply concluded that the code test is the boogeyman responsible for all problems in the amateur radio service, and that when it's gone, all will be well. - wrote in message ups.com... John Smith wrote: I just support removing code because no new hams are using it in any meaningful numbers. I've seen plenty of new hams use Morse Code on the air. And plenty who use other modes. What information do you have to show that "no new hams are using it in any meaningful numbers." The new state of the art hams are interested in hooking a modem up and interfacing the radio to the computer... Some are - some aren't. Hook up a code key and they loose interest immediately... Depends on how you present it. And the word is "lose".... Now, a bunch of old guys who are computer illiterate have no choice than to try to amuse themselves with a damn key... Well, that leaves me out, because I'm neither old nor computer illiterate. "Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... John, You could make the same assertion about a driver's license. Memorize some rules and take a road test. Do you support eliminating motor vehicle tests? Perhaps only for college educated folks? Might it make sense to require folks to know where the band edges are, or would you think it doesn't matter. If you travel to the U.K., do you think it might be smart to understand that they drive on the *left* side of the road rather than the right? Even if you are a pedestrian? I suspect you'd be upset if someone started transmitting on your Direct Tv frequencies and killed your reception. There are rules and folks wishing licenses are supposed to demonstrate some knowledge of those rules. These rules do not require the calculus, yet even a college grad has to demonstrate some knowledge of them. 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA "John Smith" wrote in message ... ... the amateur tests are a trivial problem to men with real educations... ... the cw part makes as much sense as learning to play a "jew's harp"--a lot of sense if you wish to, none if you don't... Warmest regards, John |
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#9
June 16th 05, 09:49 PM
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- Not all Technicians are "nocodetest". The FCC has been renewing all Technician and Technician Plus licenses as Technician for more than 5 years, and in less than 5 more years there will be no more Technician Pluses at all, because they will all have either expired or been renewed as Technicians. In that same time period, Novices who pass Element 2 get Technician licenses, not Technician Pluses. And any Technician who passes Element 1 is still shown as Technician on the database. I used to be an "old" tech plus. Partly to avoid the above ambiguity I upgraded. Could have just got a paperwork only upgrade to general, but decided to go for extra. |
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