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#1
July 13th 05, 07:00 PM
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Kim wrote:
wrote in message oups.com... wrote: Good grief. Take a breath there. I really don't know if you're being gruff with a reason or if you are somehow insulted by Jim's attempt to caution at what "experts" may say at any given time. Jim went and punched my buttons again, he's really good at it, it's all HIS fault dammit . . . ! You seem way too defensive, ME? Defensive?! You gotta be kiddding! I've been called a lotta things over a lot a lot of years by a lot of people but that's a new one. I think bottle feeding is the preferred mode today, isn't it? Definitely not from my vantage point in my particular world. I'm responding to Kim here too since her comments on the subject are very similar to yours. Problem is that being "retired" for a couple years drove me batty so I went out and picked up an industrial machine design/build project. It's coming together fast at this point and I don't have much time now to go keyboarding here so I need to keep this as brief as possible and get back to work. I have three daughters 41, 35 and 33. All are professionals in various fields. The eldest is single and in Louisville, no kids, the middle one is local, has four kids and is a stay-at-home mom. The youngest is also local, has a 3-year-old daughter and works part time out of her home office. The two locals are part of a mob of thirtysomethings, maybe 12 all told, family, classmates, etc. It's basically a sorority. Almost all of them are educated and they all live in better-than-average circumstances here in the suburbs of the northeast corridor. I'm not certain on this point but I don't know of any who are not in their own homes. This not Texas or Michigan which brings up the possibility of some differences in demographics plus I'm not really plugged into what "average" actually means around here. Very few of these women work full time. Some peck at part-time jobs. About 2/3 of them are stay-at-home moms. Several times a year they all clump together for some birthday or holiday gathering and I'm usually part of it and is where I make my "observations". Not to ignore the fact that I also have gobs of hands-on experience from the "bad old days" Jim cited when the marketeers supposedly glorified bottle-feeding and sold it. Which I dispute. I never counted heads but this mob has a virtual army of under-12 type kids. Breast feeding amongst this bunch is overwhelmingly prevails. Once in awhile a bottle has shown up here and there but I don't know if it was "pumped" or if it was Enfimile . . (sp? Been a LONG time!). So that's where I'm coming from for whatever it might be worth. Dee wrote: "Well when I was planning to have children, I sat down and evaluated the alternatives based on my lifestyle and the technology available to me. I ended up working full time and choosing breast feeding for both children. I didn't care one bit for historical precedence or political correctness". Exactly the way I'd expect an engineer to deal with the matter. Yee-haw! Kim W5TIT w3rv |
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#2
July 14th 05, 02:40 AM
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wrote in message
oups.com... Kim wrote: wrote in message oups.com... wrote: Good grief. Take a breath there. I really don't know if you're being gruff with a reason or if you are somehow insulted by Jim's attempt to caution at what "experts" may say at any given time. Jim went and punched my buttons again, he's really good at it, it's all HIS fault dammit . . . ! heh heh. Can I actually begin to believe that I am having a "fun" exchange with you, Mr. Kelly? You seem way too defensive, ME? Defensive?! You gotta be kiddding! I've been called a lotta things over a lot a lot of years by a lot of people but that's a new one. Well, after all, you are discoursing with me, and it really did seem just a little on the defensive side. Maybe a misinterpretation on my part. I think bottle feeding is the preferred mode today, isn't it? Definitely not from my vantage point in my particular world. I'm responding to Kim here too since her comments on the subject are very similar to yours. Problem is that being "retired" for a couple years drove me batty so I went out and picked up an industrial machine design/build project. It's coming together fast at this point and I don't have much time now to go keyboarding here so I need to keep this as brief as possible and get back to work. Ah. Don't get caught outside the door (ummm, you'd have to read the book, "Prey" to understand). GRIN I think you meant you were responding to Dee, too, as you are directly responding to my comments--er, this is Kim here--above. I can only wish I'll get to retire and get to play a lot at ham radio before the company I work for ends up sending all our work "elsewhere" for other people to do. I have three daughters 41, 35 and 33. All are professionals in various fields. The eldest is single and in Louisville, no kids, the middle one is local, has four kids and is a stay-at-home mom. The youngest is also local, has a 3-year-old daughter and works part time out of her home office. Sounds like a cut across the average for even around here, I'd say. I am 50 and I've resembled any one of them (well, except for the single part--I never got to be "single" for any real length of time. Married pretty much outta HS, divorced three years later, a year after that began a 14-year relationship with my long-time, and still, friend; now married 16 years and this is it. No more. The two locals are part of a mob of thirtysomethings, maybe 12 all told, family, classmates, etc. It's basically a sorority. I understand. This sounds kind of the way my younger sister, now about 45 or so, lived her life. Always had a clutch of girlfriends to "run around" with and play the suburban mom/wife with. I was witness to this for a couple of days and ran screaming away from it. Moms who just seemed to love getting up, loading x-number of kids into their vehicle as the drive-to-school mom for that week, run around and do errands--some even for the other moms--, etc., etc. I mean, I have an office job and have even lived in a cubicle for an extended period of time, but PUHLEEZE put the brakes on when it comes to that kind of happiness....LOL Almost all of them are educated and they all live in better-than-average circumstances here in the suburbs of the northeast corridor. I'm not certain on this point but I don't know of any who are not in their own homes. This not Texas or Michigan which brings up the possibility of some differences in demographics plus I'm not really plugged into what "average" actually means around here. Very few of these women work full time. Some peck at part-time jobs. About 2/3 of them are stay-at-home moms. Believe it or not, you are describing pretty darned average for around here. I'll never forget mid-chewing on a tuna sandwich a couple of years ago as the 22-year old on the other side of the cubicle wall was having a melt-down because her childrens' "nanny" and house maid were embroiled in a real argument over whose responsibility it actually was to be sure the baby was ready for mum and pop in the afternoons when they get home from work!!!!! WHAT???!!! Several times a year they all clump together for some birthday or holiday gathering and I'm usually part of it and is where I make my "observations". Not to ignore the fact that I also have gobs of hands-on experience from the "bad old days" Jim cited when the marketeers supposedly glorified bottle-feeding and sold it. Which I dispute. Well, Jim? Have you anything to say about whether you were actually making it the bad ol days, or whether you were drawing a picture of how "we" like to listen to and believe the, uh, experts, when they really may only be spewing what gets them the buck that particular day? I think it's the latter and that Mr. Kelly is misunderstanding your intention. But, even with an intention such as he may believe, this has made for an interesting topic in this here amateur radio newsgroup...heh heh I never counted heads but this mob has a virtual army of under-12 type kids. Breast feeding amongst this bunch is overwhelmingly prevails. Once in awhile a bottle has shown up here and there but I don't know if it was "pumped" or if it was Enfimile . . (sp? Been a LONG time!). So that's where I'm coming from for whatever it might be worth. Well, imagine the lifestyle you describe, above, and trying to lug around bottles, etc. I mean, I did it, but MAYBE (big maybe) if I had it to do over, the ease of breastfeeding would bring a bigger appeal next time around. I bet if you ask your daughters or their friends, though, that they are breast pumping. It is so commonplace today that women walk through our halls at work non-chalantly (sp?) carrying the apparatus with which they do the pumping, often in an unused office or in the restroom. Dee wrote: "Well when I was planning to have children, I sat down and evaluated the alternatives based on my lifestyle and the technology available to me. I ended up working full time and choosing breast feeding for both children. I didn't care one bit for historical precedence or political correctness". Exactly the way I'd expect an engineer to deal with the matter. Yee-haw! Kim W5TIT w3rv Kim W5TIT |
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#3
July 14th 05, 12:27 PM
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Kim wrote:
wrote in message oups.com... Kim wrote: wrote in message oups.com... wrote: Good grief. Take a breath there. I really don't know if you're being gruff with a reason or if you are somehow insulted by Jim's attempt to caution at what "experts" may say at any given time. Jim went and punched my buttons again, he's really good at it, it's all HIS fault dammit . . . ! Heck, I wasn't even trying to do that... heh heh. Can I actually begin to believe that I am having a "fun" exchange with you, Mr. Kelly? They're all fun, aren't they? I think bottle feeding is the preferred mode today, isn't it? Definitely not from my vantage point in my particular world. I have three daughters 41, 35 and 33. All are professionals in various fields. The eldest is single and in Louisville, no kids, the middle one is local, has four kids and is a stay-at-home mom. The youngest is also local, has a 3-year-old daughter and works part time out of her home office. Sounds like a cut across the average for even around here, I'd say. I am 50 and I've resembled any one of them (well, except for the single part--I never got to be "single" for any real length of time. Married pretty much outta HS, divorced three years later, a year after that began a 14-year relationship with my long-time, and still, friend; now married 16 years and this is it. No more. The two locals are part of a mob of thirtysomethings, maybe 12 all told, family, classmates, etc. It's basically a sorority. They're lucky to have all that support around. I understand. This sounds kind of the way my younger sister, now about 45 or so, lived her life. Always had a clutch of girlfriends to "run around" with and play the suburban mom/wife with. I was witness to this for a couple of days and ran screaming away from it. Moms who just seemed to love getting up, loading x-number of kids into their vehicle as the drive-to-school mom for that week, run around and do errands-- some even for the other moms--, etc., etc. I mean, I have an office job and have even lived in a cubicle for an extended period of time, but PUHLEEZE put the brakes on when it comes to that kind of happiness....LOL Main point is whether it's a choice or not, I think. Side note: How many men get those kinds of choices? Almost all of them are educated and they all live in better-than-average circumstances here in the suburbs of the northeast corridor. I'm not certain on this point but I don't know of any who are not in their own homes. This not Texas or Michigan which brings up the possibility of some differences in demographics Also local culture. Plays a big role, believe it or not. plus I'm not really plugged into what "average" actually means around here. Very few of these women work full time. Some peck at part-time jobs. About 2/3 of them are stay-at-home moms. Here on Philly's Main Line, we have the whole spectrum, from stay at home moms with babies to moms with highpower professional jobs and nannies who are doing full-time-plus jobs. And pumping... Also single moms, blended families, families where one or the other parent travels a *lot* for work, etc., etc. Believe it or not, you are describing pretty darned average for around here. I'll never forget mid-chewing on a tuna sandwich a couple of years ago as the 22-year old on the other side of the cubicle wall was having a melt-down because her childrens' "nanny" and house maid were embroiled in a real argument over whose responsibility it actually was to be sure the baby was ready for mum and pop in the afternoons when they get home from work!!!!! WHAT???!!! What's the problem? That's an important issue and mom was miles away. One problem in many careers today is that you cannot simply drop out of the workforce for several years and then hope to find a job later, because things change too fast. Several times a year they all clump together for some birthday or holiday gathering and I'm usually part of it and is where I make my "observations". Not to ignore the fact that I also have gobs of hands-on experience from the "bad old days" Jim cited when the marketeers supposedly glorified bottle-feeding and sold it. Which I dispute. Your oldest is 41 and youngest is 33. That means you were in baby mode from about 1964 to 1975 or so. The period of intense selling I was talking about was somewhat earlier. And all of yours were 100% bottlefed, right? Well, Jim? Have you anything to say about whether you were actually making it the bad ol days, or whether you were drawing a picture of how "we" like to listen to and believe the, uh, experts, when they really may only be spewing what gets them the buck that particular day? My first point is that there *was* a time when bottle/formula feeding was definitely pushed as *the best way* to feed a baby. At least in the USA that I lived in. The old fashioned way was definitely discouraged, or at least put way down on the bottom shelf behind the counter. But the main point is that the "professional experts" pushed that idea, and people bought it hook, line and sinker. And there are major analogies to "modern" technologies. I think it's the latter and that Mr. Kelly is misunderstanding your intention. Oh yes. But, even with an intention such as he may believe, this has made for an interesting topic in this here amateur radio newsgroup...heh heh Then I have succeeded in my purpose! I never counted heads but this mob has a virtual army of under-12 type kids. Breast feeding amongst this bunch is overwhelmingly prevails. Sure - because, for them, it's easier and better. Once in awhile a bottle has shown up here and there but I don't know if it was "pumped" or if it was Enfimile . . (sp? Been a LONG time!). Enfamil. Isomil. All sorts of stuff. Price a case some time. So that's where I'm coming from for whatever it might be worth. Well, imagine the lifestyle you describe, above, and trying to lug around bottles, etc. As opposed to lugging around the....alternative apparatus... I mean, I did it, but MAYBE (big maybe) if I had it to do over, the ease of breastfeeding would bring a bigger appeal next time around. BINGO! You've done both and found "the old fashioned way" was actually easier and better for *you*. I bet if you ask your daughters or their friends, though, that they are breast pumping. It is so commonplace today that women walk through our halls at work non-chalantly (sp?) carrying the apparatus with which they do the pumping, often in an unused office or in the restroom. 'zactly. Dee wrote: "Well when I was planning to have children, I sat down and evaluated the alternatives based on my lifestyle and the technology available to me. I ended up working full time and choosing breast feeding for both children. I didn't care one bit for historical precedence or political correctness". Exactly the way I'd expect an engineer to deal with the matter. And look which technology won out.... 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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